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LTEN11
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:09 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:

I'd expect either Doha or Dubai to take advantage of curfew free operation.


Not sure how I didn't think of this. There are lots of people in western Sydney from Middle-Eastern and African backgrounds. So a connection to DXB would certainly be very useful.

Also, if the likes of EK and QR are using a 773ER, then they'd also have some reasonable level of freight capacity as well.

I have no idea of stats' regarding O&D, but as a very rough guess, I'd think EK could do three 773's a week.


Cheers.


To be blunt, I think EK could go daily from day one. Sub-daily isn’t really their thing anyway, but if there was one airline who could crack SWZ international they would be my bet. The market is almost custom made for them; Western Sydney has massive VFR demand and the largest non-seaport freight and logistics hub in the country. Late night turn, probably via SIN to top-up some front end traffic and ensure they can move 100% cargo payload, will be a winner for them. Yes, it will definitely be lower yielding than SYD, but overall has the potential to be very lucrative for an airline that (1) has perfected the art of being a mass-demand hauler unlike any other airline and (2) is coupled with the juggernaut that is Emirates SkyCargo.

Don’t forget that SWZ will be more convenient than SYD for something like 2 million people. We are talking about a population roughly equivalent to Perth. Yes, this includes some fairly low income areas, but that’s not the entire story. Western Sydney is a lot more prosperous than most people east of Five Dock seem to realise.


They wouldn't need to go via SIN to top up front end demand, there would be plenty paying cash (I do mean cash) for that privilege. EK could easily go daily from day 1, it might be at the expense of a rotation through SYD, but it wouldn't be any less lucrative. QR and EY I'm not so sure on, QR may go less than daily to start with, I'm not really sure on their market presence with the Middle Eastern/African VFR.

I can see most if not all of the dedicated freight flights using SWZ, much closer to the geographic centre of the city and with good road links to the rest of the state.
 
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:37 pm

LTEN11 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:

Not sure how I didn't think of this. There are lots of people in western Sydney from Middle-Eastern and African backgrounds. So a connection to DXB would certainly be very useful.

Also, if the likes of EK and QR are using a 773ER, then they'd also have some reasonable level of freight capacity as well.

I have no idea of stats' regarding O&D, but as a very rough guess, I'd think EK could do three 773's a week.


Cheers.


To be blunt, I think EK could go daily from day one. Sub-daily isn’t really their thing anyway, but if there was one airline who could crack SWZ international they would be my bet. The market is almost custom made for them; Western Sydney has massive VFR demand and the largest non-seaport freight and logistics hub in the country. Late night turn, probably via SIN to top-up some front end traffic and ensure they can move 100% cargo payload, will be a winner for them. Yes, it will definitely be lower yielding than SYD, but overall has the potential to be very lucrative for an airline that (1) has perfected the art of being a mass-demand hauler unlike any other airline and (2) is coupled with the juggernaut that is Emirates SkyCargo.

Don’t forget that SWZ will be more convenient than SYD for something like 2 million people. We are talking about a population roughly equivalent to Perth. Yes, this includes some fairly low income areas, but that’s not the entire story. Western Sydney is a lot more prosperous than most people east of Five Dock seem to realise.


They wouldn't need to go via SIN to top up front end demand, there would be plenty paying cash (I do mean cash) for that privilege. EK could easily go daily from day 1, it might be at the expense of a rotation through SYD, but it wouldn't be any less lucrative. QR and EY I'm not so sure on, QR may go less than daily to start with, I'm not really sure on their market presence with the Middle Eastern/African VFR.

I can see most if not all of the dedicated freight flights using SWZ, much closer to the geographic centre of the city and with good road links to the rest of the state.

The perfect rotation would be as follows:

EK414 DXB-SYD 08:15-22:05
EK413 SYD-DXB 23:35-11:40 +1

EK412 DXB-SYD 15:15-05:05 +1
EK415 SYD-DXB 06:35-20:10

As a result of these retimes the A380’s don’t overnight 22:05 until the following morning 06:00 departure & the entire day layover from 06:05 until 21:10 evening departure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
a7ala
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:47 pm

Does anyone know if SWZ airport would fall under the same air rights restrictions as SYD? If not I could see it being used by airlines who are capacity limited into BNE/SYD/MEL/PER eg. QR. Maybe even enabling some extensions across the Tasman if number of flights are unrestriced.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:19 pm

LTEN11 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:

Not sure how I didn't think of this. There are lots of people in western Sydney from Middle-Eastern and African backgrounds. So a connection to DXB would certainly be very useful.

Also, if the likes of EK and QR are using a 773ER, then they'd also have some reasonable level of freight capacity as well.

I have no idea of stats' regarding O&D, but as a very rough guess, I'd think EK could do three 773's a week.


Cheers.


To be blunt, I think EK could go daily from day one. Sub-daily isn’t really their thing anyway, but if there was one airline who could crack SWZ international they would be my bet. The market is almost custom made for them; Western Sydney has massive VFR demand and the largest non-seaport freight and logistics hub in the country. Late night turn, probably via SIN to top-up some front end traffic and ensure they can move 100% cargo payload, will be a winner for them. Yes, it will definitely be lower yielding than SYD, but overall has the potential to be very lucrative for an airline that (1) has perfected the art of being a mass-demand hauler unlike any other airline and (2) is coupled with the juggernaut that is Emirates SkyCargo.

Don’t forget that SWZ will be more convenient than SYD for something like 2 million people. We are talking about a population roughly equivalent to Perth. Yes, this includes some fairly low income areas, but that’s not the entire story. Western Sydney is a lot more prosperous than most people east of Five Dock seem to realise.


They wouldn't need to go via SIN to top up front end demand, there would be plenty paying cash (I do mean cash) for that privilege. EK could easily go daily from day 1, it might be at the expense of a rotation through SYD, but it wouldn't be any less lucrative. QR and EY I'm not so sure on, QR may go less than daily to start with, I'm not really sure on their market presence with the Middle Eastern/African VFR.

I can see most if not all of the dedicated freight flights using SWZ, much closer to the geographic centre of the city and with good road links to the rest of the state.


I wonder if EK would return to CHC via SWZ? No competition between SWZ-CHC or QF or NZ. QR also likes a thin route to start off with.

My original post was cut off, but JQ to DPS 3 weekly on a 320 also seems possible to me. Perhaps QF to SIN on a 321XLR, or depending on freight 330?

I wonder if we might see NZ shift some of their AKL services, daily, or 4 weeks 320?

I think a few carriers with high frequencies may shift some frequencies to put pressure on SYD - hopefully SYD starts to compete and improve their costs and customer experience- knowing their arrogance I doubt it.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:33 pm

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:

I'd expect either Doha or Dubai to take advantage of curfew free operation.


Not sure how I didn't think of this. There are lots of people in western Sydney from Middle-Eastern and African backgrounds. So a connection to DXB would certainly be very useful.

Also, if the likes of EK and QR are using a 773ER, then they'd also have some reasonable level of freight capacity as well.

I have no idea of stats' regarding O&D, but as a very rough guess, I'd think EK could do three 773's a week.


Cheers.


Fair ppoint about Chinese carriers, but surely there is some demand there, especially where there have been multiple dailies in the past.

The same applies to the ME and I don't know why I didn't think of it. QR to SWZ rather than SYD-CBR-SYD for a frequency make sense, as does swapping out an EK to SWZ.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:15 pm

EK413 wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

To be blunt, I think EK could go daily from day one. Sub-daily isn’t really their thing anyway, but if there was one airline who could crack SWZ international they would be my bet. The market is almost custom made for them; Western Sydney has massive VFR demand and the largest non-seaport freight and logistics hub in the country. Late night turn, probably via SIN to top-up some front end traffic and ensure they can move 100% cargo payload, will be a winner for them. Yes, it will definitely be lower yielding than SYD, but overall has the potential to be very lucrative for an airline that (1) has perfected the art of being a mass-demand hauler unlike any other airline and (2) is coupled with the juggernaut that is Emirates SkyCargo.

Don’t forget that SWZ will be more convenient than SYD for something like 2 million people. We are talking about a population roughly equivalent to Perth. Yes, this includes some fairly low income areas, but that’s not the entire story. Western Sydney is a lot more prosperous than most people east of Five Dock seem to realise.


They wouldn't need to go via SIN to top up front end demand, there would be plenty paying cash (I do mean cash) for that privilege. EK could easily go daily from day 1, it might be at the expense of a rotation through SYD, but it wouldn't be any less lucrative. QR and EY I'm not so sure on, QR may go less than daily to start with, I'm not really sure on their market presence with the Middle Eastern/African VFR.

I can see most if not all of the dedicated freight flights using SWZ, much closer to the geographic centre of the city and with good road links to the rest of the state.

The perfect rotation would be as follows:

EK414 DXB-SYD 08:15-22:05
EK413 SYD-DXB 23:35-11:40 +1

EK412 DXB-SYD 15:15-05:05 +1
EK415 SYD-DXB 06:35-20:10

As a result of these retimes the A380’s don’t overnight 22:05 until the following morning 06:00 departure & the entire day layover from 06:05 until 21:10 evening departure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The 23:35 departure is after curfew, and the 06:35 departure is too late for the afternoon bank in Dubai (06:35 departure would be a 14:45 arrival, your flight times are completely out). MEL with no curfew leaves at 05:15, but at SYD they can’t depart until 06:00, which results in some very short connection times and completely misses some connection opportunities. They certainly wouldn’t want to leave any later. Finally an 05:05 arrival would need Qantas to agree to give up their one (?) pre-06:00 arrival slot which they would probably not want to do.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:19 pm

a7ala wrote:
Does anyone know if SWZ airport would fall under the same air rights restrictions as SYD? If not I could see it being used by airlines who are capacity limited into BNE/SYD/MEL/PER eg. QR. Maybe even enabling some extensions across the Tasman if number of flights are unrestriced.


Not sure, both if it’s not then QR seem very likely. Overall though, I’m less confident about them than EK due to the sheer scale that EK has. EK flies double daily 77Ws on routes where QR fly a daily A320 with variable schedule, so connections aren’t possible every day. That lack of scale makes it harder to generate sufficient volume to fill a daily A350. As I said, the potential market in Western Sydney is huge, but I feel EK have more potential.
 
a7ala
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:26 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Does anyone know if SWZ airport would fall under the same air rights restrictions as SYD? If not I could see it being used by airlines who are capacity limited into BNE/SYD/MEL/PER eg. QR. Maybe even enabling some extensions across the Tasman if number of flights are unrestriced.


Not sure, both if it’s not then QR seem very likely. Overall though, I’m less confident about them than EK due to the sheer scale that EK has. EK flies double daily 77Ws on routes where QR fly a daily A320 with variable schedule, so connections aren’t possible every day. That lack of scale makes it harder to generate sufficient volume to fill a daily A350. As I said, the potential market in Western Sydney is huge, but I feel EK have more potential.


QR was flying that tag to CBR (which cost them millions) just to get an extra frequency into SYD. They would jump at the chance for another Sydney frequency through SWZ if they were outside the ASA restrictions. Particularly given they have now used the additional freq they just earned to commence BNE.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:36 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
EK413 wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:

They wouldn't need to go via SIN to top up front end demand, there would be plenty paying cash (I do mean cash) for that privilege. EK could easily go daily from day 1, it might be at the expense of a rotation through SYD, but it wouldn't be any less lucrative. QR and EY I'm not so sure on, QR may go less than daily to start with, I'm not really sure on their market presence with the Middle Eastern/African VFR.

I can see most if not all of the dedicated freight flights using SWZ, much closer to the geographic centre of the city and with good road links to the rest of the state.

The perfect rotation would be as follows:

EK414 DXB-SYD 08:15-22:05
EK413 SYD-DXB 23:35-11:40 +1

EK412 DXB-SYD 15:15-05:05 +1
EK415 SYD-DXB 06:35-20:10

As a result of these retimes the A380’s don’t overnight 22:05 until the following morning 06:00 departure & the entire day layover from 06:05 until 21:10 evening departure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The 23:35 departure is after curfew, and the 06:35 departure is too late for the afternoon bank in Dubai (06:35 departure would be a 14:45 arrival, your flight times are completely out). MEL with no curfew leaves at 05:15, but at SYD they can’t depart until 06:00, which results in some very short connection times and completely misses some connection opportunities. They certainly wouldn’t want to leave any later. Finally an 05:05 arrival would need Qantas to agree to give up their one (?) pre-06:00 arrival slot which they would probably not want to do.

These timings weren’t spot on give or take an hour. My point being if EK were to move their SYD 6am departure and 9pm departure to SWZ they’ll be able to utilise the inbound aircraft therefore eliminating the extended ground time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Fuling
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:54 am

EK413 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
EK413 wrote:
The perfect rotation would be as follows:

EK414 DXB-SYD 08:15-22:05
EK413 SYD-DXB 23:35-11:40 +1

EK412 DXB-SYD 15:15-05:05 +1
EK415 SYD-DXB 06:35-20:10

As a result of these retimes the A380’s don’t overnight 22:05 until the following morning 06:00 departure & the entire day layover from 06:05 until 21:10 evening departure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The 23:35 departure is after curfew, and the 06:35 departure is too late for the afternoon bank in Dubai (06:35 departure would be a 14:45 arrival, your flight times are completely out). MEL with no curfew leaves at 05:15, but at SYD they can’t depart until 06:00, which results in some very short connection times and completely misses some connection opportunities. They certainly wouldn’t want to leave any later. Finally an 05:05 arrival would need Qantas to agree to give up their one (?) pre-06:00 arrival slot which they would probably not want to do.

These timings weren’t spot on give or take an hour. My point being if EK were to move their SYD 6am departure and 9pm departure to SWZ they’ll be able to utilise the inbound aircraft therefore eliminating the extended ground time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It won't work with these tight turnaround times. And the schedule you've got there is quite inaccurate. It might be easier to visualise with a more accurate schedule.
EK414 DXB 02:00 SYD(SWZ) 22:40
EK413 SYD(SWZ) 00:40 DXB 09:25

EK412 DXB 10:15 SYD(SWZ) 06:00 +1
EK415 SYD(SWZ) 08:00 DXB 16:45

As you can see, if they leave with the departure banks, they miss both arrival banks. It just won't work for EK.
 
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VHTAE
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:20 am

moa999 wrote:
VHTAE wrote:
Would anyone know why VH-OQB has been parked in Sydney for over a month?
Had read it was getting the interior refurb in SYD
(Previous 380s were done in Dresden and Abu Dhabi)


Thank you for that. I know it has the current livery but wasn’t sure whether it had its interior updated.
 
tullamarine
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:42 am

EK413 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
EK413 wrote:
The perfect rotation would be as follows:

EK414 DXB-SYD 08:15-22:05
EK413 SYD-DXB 23:35-11:40 +1

EK412 DXB-SYD 15:15-05:05 +1
EK415 SYD-DXB 06:35-20:10

As a result of these retimes the A380’s don’t overnight 22:05 until the following morning 06:00 departure & the entire day layover from 06:05 until 21:10 evening departure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The 23:35 departure is after curfew, and the 06:35 departure is too late for the afternoon bank in Dubai (06:35 departure would be a 14:45 arrival, your flight times are completely out). MEL with no curfew leaves at 05:15, but at SYD they can’t depart until 06:00, which results in some very short connection times and completely misses some connection opportunities. They certainly wouldn’t want to leave any later. Finally an 05:05 arrival would need Qantas to agree to give up their one (?) pre-06:00 arrival slot which they would probably not want to do.

These timings weren’t spot on give or take an hour. My point being if EK were to move their SYD 6am departure and 9pm departure to SWZ they’ll be able to utilise the inbound aircraft therefore eliminating the extended ground time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The whole pretext of your argument doesn't make sense given what EK does in MEL where they operate 2 daily flights curfew-free and are timed to meet the exact same banks in DXB as flights from SWZ would. In both cases, EK has the planes on the ground in MEL for extended periods (one for 8 hours and one for 16 hours). There just isn't enough time to turnaround an A380 in MEL (or SWZ) and get it back to DXB to meet the next European bound bank and that is without allowing for inevitable late arrivals which will occur from time to time.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:50 am

EK413 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
EK413 wrote:
The perfect rotation would be as follows:

EK414 DXB-SYD 08:15-22:05
EK413 SYD-DXB 23:35-11:40 +1

EK412 DXB-SYD 15:15-05:05 +1
EK415 SYD-DXB 06:35-20:10

As a result of these retimes the A380’s don’t overnight 22:05 until the following morning 06:00 departure & the entire day layover from 06:05 until 21:10 evening departure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The 23:35 departure is after curfew, and the 06:35 departure is too late for the afternoon bank in Dubai (06:35 departure would be a 14:45 arrival, your flight times are completely out). MEL with no curfew leaves at 05:15, but at SYD they can’t depart until 06:00, which results in some very short connection times and completely misses some connection opportunities. They certainly wouldn’t want to leave any later. Finally an 05:05 arrival would need Qantas to agree to give up their one (?) pre-06:00 arrival slot which they would probably not want to do.

These timings weren’t spot on give or take an hour. My point being if EK were to move their SYD 6am departure and 9pm departure to SWZ they’ll be able to utilise the inbound aircraft therefore eliminating the extended ground time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are way more than an hour out, more like 7 hours.

Look at the EK schedule for MEL and BNE (pre-Covid), that is what they would do. Emirates runs tight banks in Dubai, they aren’t going to operate flights at random times that don’t feed one of their three banks. LHR is the only market they do so, but LHR-DXB is a very large O&D market.

The times of a post-curfew flight would either be via SIN with a ~00:30 arrival and ~02:30 departure (see EK432/433 pre-Covid) or ~22:30 arrival and ~05:00 departure (see EK408/409).
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:57 am

a7ala wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Does anyone know if SWZ airport would fall under the same air rights restrictions as SYD? If not I could see it being used by airlines who are capacity limited into BNE/SYD/MEL/PER eg. QR. Maybe even enabling some extensions across the Tasman if number of flights are unrestriced.


Not sure, both if it’s not then QR seem very likely. Overall though, I’m less confident about them than EK due to the sheer scale that EK has. EK flies double daily 77Ws on routes where QR fly a daily A320 with variable schedule, so connections aren’t possible every day. That lack of scale makes it harder to generate sufficient volume to fill a daily A350. As I said, the potential market in Western Sydney is huge, but I feel EK have more potential.


QR was flying that tag to CBR (which cost them millions) just to get an extra frequency into SYD. They would jump at the chance for another Sydney frequency through SWZ if they were outside the ASA restrictions. Particularly given they have now used the additional freq they just earned to commence BNE.


That exactly what I said. If SWZ is *not* Sydney for the ASA then QR are a shoe-in. If, however, it is part of the ASA then maintaining double-daily at SYD (via whatever odd means) would be more desirable for them than a split operation. Double daily allows them to offer daily connections on the multitude of Europe, Middle East and Africa routes where they run a split schedule.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:58 am

Fuling wrote:
EK413 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

The 23:35 departure is after curfew, and the 06:35 departure is too late for the afternoon bank in Dubai (06:35 departure would be a 14:45 arrival, your flight times are completely out). MEL with no curfew leaves at 05:15, but at SYD they can’t depart until 06:00, which results in some very short connection times and completely misses some connection opportunities. They certainly wouldn’t want to leave any later. Finally an 05:05 arrival would need Qantas to agree to give up their one (?) pre-06:00 arrival slot which they would probably not want to do.

These timings weren’t spot on give or take an hour. My point being if EK were to move their SYD 6am departure and 9pm departure to SWZ they’ll be able to utilise the inbound aircraft therefore eliminating the extended ground time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It won't work with these tight turnaround times. And the schedule you've got there is quite inaccurate. It might be easier to visualise with a more accurate schedule.
EK414 DXB 02:00 SYD(SWZ) 22:40
EK413 SYD(SWZ) 00:40 DXB 09:25

EK412 DXB 10:15 SYD(SWZ) 06:00 +1
EK415 SYD(SWZ) 08:00 DXB 16:45

As you can see, if they leave with the departure banks, they miss both arrival banks. It just won't work for EK.


Yes it is the late arrival in to SYD that would make most sense to switch to SWZ. There is real pressure in Dubai to get that flight away on time. A pressure which would ease flying to SWZ.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:16 am

Virgin Australia Regional (VARA) set to replace the Fokkers with 737-700s. VARA will continue to operate the A320s as a dual 737/A320 operator, after recently acquiring 2 A320s this year.

Author note: I wonder if the 2 current 737-700s in VA's fleet will be moved across to the VARA AOC?

Source: https://www.airlineratings.com/news/ind ... s-boeings/
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:23 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Virgin Australia Regional (VARA) set to replace the Fokkers with 737-700s. VARA will continue to operate the A320s as a dual 737/A320 operator, after recently acquiring 2 A320s this year.

Author note: I wonder if the 2 current 737-700s in VA's fleet will be moved across to the VARA AOC?

Source: https://www.airlineratings.com/news/ind ... s-boeings/

Surely the bigger question is where VA is getting 8 (or 10) 737-700s from?
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:23 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
That exactly what I said. If SWZ is *not* Sydney for the ASA then QR are a shoe-in. If, however, it is part of the ASA then maintaining double-daily at SYD (via whatever odd means) would be more desirable for them than a split operation. Double daily allows them to offer daily connections on the multitude of Europe, Middle East and Africa routes where they run a split schedule.


This is an interesting question, and a good catch. The ASA between Qatar and Australia allows 21 frequencies to Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth, but QR is entitled to fly to to other Australian airports as part of a "Regional Package". Qatar may apply arguing that SWZ should be considered under the "Regional Package", however, if Australia decline this it may end up triggering a renegotiation which may grant them more frequencies to Sydney itself. This specific ASA isn't a Treaty level agreement making it easier to renegotiate and update. Also, because it's not a Treaty level agreement, the text isn't available on DFAT's website, so we're not entirely sure how these terms are defined.

That said, I don't see the Commonwealth favouring SWZ over SYD for long haul flights in the short term. Part of the strategy for SWZ was that it may displace some domestic flying from SYD in order to unlock long haul capacity at SYD. The EIS document specifically highlighted what they called "residual capacity" at SYD and that they don't envisage significant long haul uptake in "stage 1".
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:28 am

That said, I don't see the Commonwealth favouring SWZ over SYD for long haul flights in the short term.

Surely the Federal Government would actively be favouring SWZ in the short-term. It is in their interests for it to come up to a sustainable volume as soon as possible both to justify their investment and maximise any sales proceeds should they choose to sell it in the future
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:33 am

tullamarine wrote:
Surely the bigger question is where VA is getting 8 (or 10) 737-700s from?


There are several gently used KLM birds that were returned to lessors awaiting new homes. The market for leased B737-700s is very weak evidenced by DL choosing to scrap some a little more than a decade old after being unable to re-market them. The part commonality with B737-800s means there is sometimes better part value than lease value if the lease market is weak. But there are a number around that they could pick up, and probably at good rates.
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:36 am

tullamarine wrote:
That said, I don't see the Commonwealth favouring SWZ over SYD for long haul flights in the short term.

Surely the Federal Government would actively be favouring SWZ in the short-term. It is in their interests for it to come up to a sustainable volume as soon as possible both to justify their investment and maximise any sales proceeds should they choose to sell it in the future


Absolutely, but they'd certainly be pushing short haul flights there. That's clearly the strategy in the short term based on the EIS. Much easier to get sustainable volume through short haul than long haul, and likely a consensus view in the industry to do this.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:39 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Virgin Australia Regional (VARA) set to replace the Fokkers with 737-700s. VARA will continue to operate the A320s as a dual 737/A320 operator, after recently acquiring 2 A320s this year.

Author note: I wonder if the 2 current 737-700s in VA's fleet will be moved across to the VARA AOC?

Source: https://www.airlineratings.com/news/ind ... s-boeings/


Also they will take delivery of 4 737MAX8 from February of next year
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:53 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Virgin Australia Regional (VARA) set to replace the Fokkers with 737-700s. VARA will continue to operate the A320s as a dual 737/A320 operator, after recently acquiring 2 A320s this year.

Author note: I wonder if the 2 current 737-700s in VA's fleet will be moved across to the VARA AOC?

Source: https://www.airlineratings.com/news/ind ... s-boeings/


VA are learning from QF! Type train cheaper crew - does wonders for future bargaining agreements.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:54 am

Still think an A320 would be perfect for VA. A321 providing capacity and the XLR would allow them to fly internationally (even reach Tokyo from BNE?). Anyway, I hope they will finally have a unified product once the MAXs are here.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:10 am

evanb wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
That exactly what I said. If SWZ is *not* Sydney for the ASA then QR are a shoe-in. If, however, it is part of the ASA then maintaining double-daily at SYD (via whatever odd means) would be more desirable for them than a split operation. Double daily allows them to offer daily connections on the multitude of Europe, Middle East and Africa routes where they run a split schedule.


This is an interesting question, and a good catch. The ASA between Qatar and Australia allows 21 frequencies to Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth, but QR is entitled to fly to to other Australian airports as part of a "Regional Package". Qatar may apply arguing that SWZ should be considered under the "Regional Package", however, if Australia decline this it may end up triggering a renegotiation which may grant them more frequencies to Sydney itself. This specific ASA isn't a Treaty level agreement making it easier to renegotiate and update. Also, because it's not a Treaty level agreement, the text isn't available on DFAT's website, so we're not entirely sure how these terms are defined.

That said, I don't see the Commonwealth favouring SWZ over SYD for long haul flights in the short term. Part of the strategy for SWZ was that it may displace some domestic flying from SYD in order to unlock long haul capacity at SYD. The EIS document specifically highlighted what they called "residual capacity" at SYD and that they don't envisage significant long haul uptake in "stage 1".


Side note - Hasn’t the Qatari bilateral been updated recently? Thus allowing BNE,PER,SYD,MEL daily at 28? I think QR were very vocal about support Aussies getting home during the pandemic to gain political capital to push for an increase and allow BNE permanently. I Or have they sacrificed some capacity somewhere to fly into BNE? Also wonder how they are going on ADL-AKL? Could be tough for NZ to compete.

I believe ASA normally refers to gateway cities vs regional ports. Be interesting if this wording is refined to align to primary capital city ports.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:12 am

evanb wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Surely the bigger question is where VA is getting 8 (or 10) 737-700s from?


There are several gently used KLM birds that were returned to lessors awaiting new homes. The market for leased B737-700s is very weak evidenced by DL choosing to scrap some a little more than a decade old after being unable to re-market them. The part commonality with B737-800s means there is sometimes better part value than lease value if the lease market is weak. But there are a number around that they could pick up, and probably at good rates.

Yes, you're right. There are plenty around. I was just interested to see where they were getting them from. VA appears to be playing from the same playbook used by Alliance in getting not too old birds at distressed prices from lessors keen to get returned planes out of the desert. It makes perfect sense, particularly for these regional ops where utilisation is typically pretty poor compared with the mainline fleet.

QF has adopted a slightly different method for renewing its FIFO (Network) fleet by transferring surplus older JQ and 3K A320s.

At the end of the process, they will have all achieved a similar outcome with a newer fleet at a cost far less than would've been the case a few years ago and massively less than what it would've been if they were factory fresh planes.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:15 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Still think an A320 would be perfect for VA. A321 providing capacity and the XLR would allow them to fly internationally (even reach Tokyo from BNE?). Anyway, I hope they will finally have a unified product once the MAXs are here.

VA are operating their mainline fleet using a Southwest type strategy of a single type to maximise savings. They have expressed no interest in returning to any international flying beyond the capabilities of the 737 and this is unlikely to change. For their needs, the MAX10 achieves exactly the same thing an A321 does. Of course, the A321XLR flies further but VA doesn't need that with their current strategy.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:16 am

smi0006 wrote:
[
Side note - Hasn’t the Qatari bilateral been updated recently? Thus allowing BNE,PER,SYD,MEL daily at 28? I think QR were very vocal about support Aussies getting home during the pandemic to gain political capital to push for an increase and allow BNE permanently. I Or have they sacrificed some capacity somewhere to fly into BNE? Also wonder how they are going on ADL-AKL? Could be tough for NZ to compete.

I believe ASA normally refers to gateway cities vs regional ports. Be interesting if this wording is refined to align to primary capital city ports.


The Qatar-Australian bilateral was increased from 21 to 28 from the "Major Capitals" (e.g SYD, MEL, BNE and PER). A 5th frequency to the major capitals was available as long as it went via a regional port (hence the CBR-SYD-DOH service).

QR are using all 28 frequencies (daily SYD, MEL, BNE and PER). ADL is considered a 'regional city' in the bilateral.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:49 am

SCFlyer wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
[
Side note - Hasn’t the Qatari bilateral been updated recently? Thus allowing BNE,PER,SYD,MEL daily at 28? I think QR were very vocal about support Aussies getting home during the pandemic to gain political capital to push for an increase and allow BNE permanently. I Or have they sacrificed some capacity somewhere to fly into BNE? Also wonder how they are going on ADL-AKL? Could be tough for NZ to compete.

I believe ASA normally refers to gateway cities vs regional ports. Be interesting if this wording is refined to align to primary capital city ports.


The Qatar-Australian bilateral was increased from 21 to 28 from the "Major Capitals" (e.g SYD, MEL, BNE and PER). A 5th frequency to the major capitals was available as long as it went via a regional port (hence the CBR-SYD-DOH service).

QR are using all 28 frequencies (daily SYD, MEL, BNE and PER). ADL is considered a 'regional city' in the bilateral.


As a side note, QR seem to be doing much better than EK. QRs 4 daily flights seem to be consistently full, i'm not sure that EK is achieving the same load factor?
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:49 am

NTLDaz wrote:
Fuling wrote:
EK413 wrote:
These timings weren’t spot on give or take an hour. My point being if EK were to move their SYD 6am departure and 9pm departure to SWZ they’ll be able to utilise the inbound aircraft therefore eliminating the extended ground time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It won't work with these tight turnaround times. And the schedule you've got there is quite inaccurate. It might be easier to visualise with a more accurate schedule.
EK414 DXB 02:00 SYD(SWZ) 22:40
EK413 SYD(SWZ) 00:40 DXB 09:25

EK412 DXB 10:15 SYD(SWZ) 06:00 +1
EK415 SYD(SWZ) 08:00 DXB 16:45

As you can see, if they leave with the departure banks, they miss both arrival banks. It just won't work for EK.


Yes it is the late arrival in to SYD that would make most sense to switch to SWZ. There is real pressure in Dubai to get that flight away on time. A pressure which would ease flying to SWZ.


That’s a good point, I’d completely forgotten that EK scramble to dispatch EK414 at all costs. Any avoidable delay, such as holding for connecting passengers on a delayed inbound, is strictly verboten without permission from EK ops, and they will even push it in front of other aircraft for departure if at all possible. If all goes to plan then there is a 50 minute buffer before curfew, but 50 minutes disappears in no time at Dubai.

Add in the sub-optimal departure time (they would much rather push at a time starting with 5) and you could see why moving this flight across would be attractive to them. Double daily SYD (EK412/413 plus that other one - 416/417 ?? - with an 18:00 arrival and 15:00 departure, keep it A380 year round and there’s no overnighting aircraft) plus one SWZ is still a pretty decent schedule.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:51 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
I've been thinking this week at what would be the most likely routes that would commence once SWZ (Western Sydney International - Nancy Bird Walton) Airport opens.

My feeling is that the majority of the schedule would be domestic focussed, but I expect some international ops, both passenger and freight.

The obvious ones that come to mind are:
Domestic
MEL
BNE
PER
ADL
OOL
CNS
HBA
HTI

International
AKL
SIN

Any other key destinations I might have missed or other thoughts?

Thanks in advance and cheers.



Something im not sure we are factoring in, or perhaps know how to, is the A321 order. That could see QF or JQ go to a few places, KUL, SIN, MNL?, SGN? others?
 
a7ala
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:14 am

SCFlyer wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
[
Side note - Hasn’t the Qatari bilateral been updated recently? Thus allowing BNE,PER,SYD,MEL daily at 28? I think QR were very vocal about support Aussies getting home during the pandemic to gain political capital to push for an increase and allow BNE permanently. I Or have they sacrificed some capacity somewhere to fly into BNE? Also wonder how they are going on ADL-AKL? Could be tough for NZ to compete.

I believe ASA normally refers to gateway cities vs regional ports. Be interesting if this wording is refined to align to primary capital city ports.


The Qatar-Australian bilateral was increased from 21 to 28 from the "Major Capitals" (e.g SYD, MEL, BNE and PER). A 5th frequency to the major capitals was available as long as it went via a regional port (hence the CBR-SYD-DOH service).

QR are using all 28 frequencies (daily SYD, MEL, BNE and PER). ADL is considered a 'regional city' in the bilateral.


Presumably the limitations on the bilatteral (and its not just Qatars one) is there to try and encourage future growth outside the main gateway cities to the likes of Adelaide, Cairns, Canberra etc. so in that sense SWZ should be included as a Sydney airport as one of the gateways. That said, where do you draw the line? In SE QLD you have BNE as a gateway, but OOL and MCY not included even though there is significant geographic overlap. Is SWZ far enough away from SYD to be considered a "regional" airport by definition? Dont know but its definitely not clear cut.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:54 am

tullamarine wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Still think an A320 would be perfect for VA. A321 providing capacity and the XLR would allow them to fly internationally (even reach Tokyo from BNE?). Anyway, I hope they will finally have a unified product once the MAXs are here.

VA are operating their mainline fleet using a Southwest type strategy of a single type to maximise savings. They have expressed no interest in returning to any international flying beyond the capabilities of the 737 and this is unlikely to change. For their needs, the MAX10 achieves exactly the same thing an A321 does. Of course, the A321XLR flies further but VA doesn't need that with their current strategy.


I realise that, I meant ditching the 737 fleet and going full A320 family thus maintaining the single fleet strategy but opening up international opportunities. But I also realise that ship has sailed however so 737 it is, still hoping for a 787 or A350 order down the road, one can dream.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:46 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
As a side note, QR seem to be doing much better than EK. QRs 4 daily flights seem to be consistently full, i'm not sure that EK is achieving the same load factor?


Based on what?

Either way, with QR in oneworld, you can bet that it's an easy choice for people in Australia as they will still earn their Qantas points and get status. Though, that being said, EK should also be the same with the Qantas joint business.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:03 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
I've been thinking this week at what would be the most likely routes that would commence once SWZ (Western Sydney International - Nancy Bird Walton) Airport opens.

My feeling is that the majority of the schedule would be domestic focussed, but I expect some international ops, both passenger and freight.


SWZ would be primarliy for LCC's. Most of the wealth in Sydney is in the east and would want to see premium services at Mascot. Also probably some regional NSW destinations where it would be quicker to get from Western Sydney to SWZ and then to the regional destination without having to drive through Sydney traffic to Mascot. International routes would be limited to places like Bali, Fiji and Phuket. And then cargo. Mascot remains busy. SWZ is just a supplement.

qf2220 wrote:
Something im not sure we are factoring in, or perhaps know how to, is the A321 order. That could see QF or JQ go to a few places, KUL, SIN, MNL?, SGN? others?


Probably not from SWZ. The A321 will be primarily for domestic and then some international to Asia flying. Secondary premium routes like PER-NRT, ADL-SIN, SYD (Mascot)-SGN or BNE to PEK. It'll have a decent J class config so premium focused passengers. SWZ will be more for cramming on to JQ to get to Bali as cheap as possible.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:44 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
I've been thinking this week at what would be the most likely routes that would commence once SWZ (Western Sydney International - Nancy Bird Walton) Airport opens.

My feeling is that the majority of the schedule would be domestic focussed, but I expect some international ops, both passenger and freight.


SWZ would be primarliy for LCC's. Most of the wealth in Sydney is in the east and would want to see premium services at Mascot. Also probably some regional NSW destinations where it would be quicker to get from Western Sydney to SWZ and then to the regional destination without having to drive through Sydney traffic to Mascot. International routes would be limited to places like Bali, Fiji and Phuket. And then cargo. Mascot remains busy. SWZ is just a supplement.

qf2220 wrote:
Something im not sure we are factoring in, or perhaps know how to, is the A321 order. That could see QF or JQ go to a few places, KUL, SIN, MNL?, SGN? others?


Probably not from SWZ. The A321 will be primarily for domestic and then some international to Asia flying. Secondary premium routes like PER-NRT, ADL-SIN, SYD (Mascot)-SGN or BNE to PEK. It'll have a decent J class config so premium focused passengers. SWZ will be more for cramming on to JQ to get to Bali as cheap as possible.


SWZ won't be AVV. QF and VA will be there from day 1. Plenty of money and businesses in the western suburbs to justify it.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:09 am

NTLDaz wrote:

SWZ won't be AVV. QF and VA will be there from day 1. Plenty of money and businesses in the western suburbs to justify it.


Yeah my thinking too. Southern Highlands, Blue Mountains, even Newcastle and the Central Coast, not to speak of the people in the west itself who are not short of funds. Even Canberra is favoured to SWZ so the opportunities are there from Day 1.
 
Deano969
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:33 am

Bonza are likely waiting for opening day to set up a major hub going to pretty much everywhere
They have proposed starting up with a dozen or so destinations from Maroochy (aka Brisbane North) just imaging what they are planning from Sydney West
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:56 am

UA to restore SFO-MEL daily services by December. Will initially resume 3x weekly in June.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/united-a ... s-and-jobs
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:17 am

SCFlyer wrote:
UA to restore SFO-MEL daily services by December. Will initially resume 3x weekly in June.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/united-a ... s-and-jobs


Were UA daily from SFO? They had daily LAX-MEL, SFO was added in October 2019 3 weekly. Was LAX-MEL reduced to 4 weekly as a result?
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:21 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
UA to restore SFO-MEL daily services by December. Will initially resume 3x weekly in June.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/united-a ... s-and-jobs


Were UA daily from SFO? They had daily LAX-MEL, SFO was added in October 2019 3 weekly. Was LAX-MEL reduced to 4 weekly as a result?


From memory MEL-LAX remained daily, but I think SYD-LAX reduced off peak in conjunction with SYD-SFO. Given SYD also had SYD-IAH.
 
kriskim
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:22 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
UA to restore SFO-MEL daily services by December. Will initially resume 3x weekly in June.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/united-a ... s-and-jobs


Were UA daily from SFO? They had daily LAX-MEL, SFO was added in October 2019 3 weekly. Was LAX-MEL reduced to 4 weekly as a result?


Peak:
MEL-SFO: x3 weekly 789
MEL-LAX: Daily 789

Off-peak:
MEL-SFO: x3 weekly 789
MEL-LAX: x4 weekly 789
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:26 am

kriskim wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
UA to restore SFO-MEL daily services by December. Will initially resume 3x weekly in June.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/united-a ... s-and-jobs


Were UA daily from SFO? They had daily LAX-MEL, SFO was added in October 2019 3 weekly. Was LAX-MEL reduced to 4 weekly as a result?


Peak:
MEL-SFO: x3 weekly 789
MEL-LAX: Daily 789

Off-peak:
MEL-SFO: x3 weekly 789
MEL-LAX: x4 weekly 789


I thought as much, given it never ran in the off peak I couldn’t remember.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:27 am

Obzerva wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
UA to restore SFO-MEL daily services by December. Will initially resume 3x weekly in June.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/united-a ... s-and-jobs


Were UA daily from SFO? They had daily LAX-MEL, SFO was added in October 2019 3 weekly. Was LAX-MEL reduced to 4 weekly as a result?


From memory MEL-LAX remained daily, but I think SYD-LAX reduced off peak in conjunction with SYD-SFO. Given SYD also had SYD-IAH.


It looks like they planned to reduce MEL-LAX to 4 weekly in NS 2020. Yes SYD-LAX reduced to 3 weekly and SYD-IAH to 4 weekly in NS for a couple of years.
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:28 am

qf2220 wrote:

Something im not sure we are factoring in, or perhaps know how to, is the A321 order. That could see QF or JQ go to a few places, KUL, SIN, MNL?, SGN? others?


My thought is that QF will be using the A321, domestically, as an upgauge of the 737. Also, as a somewhat replacement of the A332. But there is also the possibility of some thin international routes as well. Seems like it'll be a versatile workhorse.

Cheers
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:35 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:


SWZ would be primarliy for LCC's. Most of the wealth in Sydney is in the east and would want to see premium services at Mascot. Also probably some regional NSW destinations where it would be quicker to get from Western Sydney to SWZ and then to the regional destination without having to drive through Sydney traffic to Mascot. International routes would be limited to places like Bali, Fiji and Phuket. And then cargo. Mascot remains busy. SWZ is just a supplement.


I think the notion of the eastern parts of Sydney being the only section with money evaporated quite some time ago. Parramatta has been transforming over many years as well as many other areas. Whilst there certainly will be demand for LCCs at SWZ I do see it attracting more premium services too. Whilst it is designed to service the greater western Sydney area, it will also offer some competition to SYD. It has no curfews or restrictions which might make it compelling for some carriers to either move operations if not split them between the two airports.

Cheers
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:48 am

Large Vietnamese and Filipino populations in Sydney's west too, so perhaps a viable alternative for Bamboo Airways and Cebu Pacific?

What I'm less clear about is, will SWZ be all that more accessible (door to door) for the large swathe of population in the 10-15km radius around Paramatta. And not just via car, but via train as well. SYD is connected to the suburban rail network, albeit at a bit of a premium.

And will charges and overall costs be lower for airlines at SWZ compared to SYD? I haven't seen much on how that's shaping up, and presumably SYD will react defensively to mitigate its loss of marketshare.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:00 am

aerokiwi wrote:
Large Vietnamese and Filipino populations in Sydney's west too, so perhaps a viable alternative for Bamboo Airways and Cebu Pacific?

What I'm less clear about is, will SWZ be all that more accessible (door to door) for the large swathe of population in the 10-15km radius around Paramatta. And not just via car, but via train as well. SYD is connected to the suburban rail network, albeit at a bit of a premium.

And will charges and overall costs be lower for airlines at SWZ compared to SYD? I haven't seen much on how that's shaping up, and presumably SYD will react defensively to mitigate its loss of marketshare.


SWZ will be connected to the rail network but it seems not from day 1.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:19 am

SCFlyer wrote:
UA to restore SFO-MEL daily services by December. Will initially resume 3x weekly in June.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/united-a ... s-and-jobs


Which raises the question, this article mentions SFO is UA’s primary hub for Asia and Australia. UA had earlier said they planned to bring back MEL-LAX and SYD-IAH later this year.

Do we still see MEL-LAX this year given SFO will be daily? It may still be possible given UA’s deal with VA who flew a 77W 5x weekly MEL-LAX. I see this as a reason for both MEL and BNE-LAX to be operated by UA. Or do we see MEL-LAX pax routed via SYD/AKL?

SYD-IAH was a very long route with restrictions ex IAH and a lot more connecting traffic, do we still see this returning this year? Or will they route IAH pax via AKL/SFO/LAX in the meantime?
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 584
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:29 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
UA to restore SFO-MEL daily services by December. Will initially resume 3x weekly in June.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/united-a ... s-and-jobs


Which raises the question, this article mentions SFO is UA’s primary hub for Asia and Australia. UA had earlier said they planned to bring back MEL-LAX and SYD-IAH later this year.

Do we still see MEL-LAX this year given SFO will be daily? It may still be possible given UA’s deal with VA who flew a 77W 5x weekly MEL-LAX. I see this as a reason for both MEL and BNE-LAX to be operated by UA. Or do we see MEL-LAX pax routed via SYD/AKL?

SYD-IAH was a very long route with restrictions ex IAH and a lot more connecting traffic, do we still see this returning this year? Or will they route IAH pax via AKL/SFO/LAX in the meantime?


I can't see why they wouldn't bring IAH back. Things can change but they're selling tickets for it. If QF can do DFW ( including from MEL ) then IAH should be fine. I can't see any reason why they would route anyone through AKL. If IAH is difficult then JFK will be an issue for NZ.
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