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yeogeo
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“The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:23 am

In a bipartisan effort, the U.S. congress is proposing a bill which would create an airline-wide list, maintained by the TSA, so that "people convicted of assaulting crew members aboard an aircraft could be placed on a “no-fly” list... Those individuals also could be barred from special programs that allow for expedited passenger screening, including TSA’s PreCheck program and Global Entry... The bill also would create an appeals process for those who think they should not be included on such a list."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transpor ... ngers-tsa/

“It’s about time we take real action to keep Flight Attendants and passengers safe in the air,” said Sara Nelson, president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, which represents nearly 50,000 flight attendants at 17 airlines... The bill also has garnered support from the Air Line Pilots Association, the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, the Transportation Trades Department, AFL-CIO, Transport Workers Union of America and some airlines, including American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and Southwest Airlines."
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:47 am

High time.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:55 am

This might be the first time a no fly list actually worked
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:12 am

About time. And structured in the right way.
 
bennett123
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:00 am

Sometimes people simply need to do what they are told.

I suspect that this will just be another bonanza for the lawyers.
 
MavyWavyATR
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:57 am

I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:41 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.



That’s been done, by both the individual carriers, and A4A.

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/24/10886699 ... sk-mandate
 
TMccrury
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:44 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.




I agree 100% with this sentiment. My head about explodes in airports hearing about the mask mandate and keeping 6 feet from others when literally in a few minutes, I will be on a metal paper towel tube getting hurtled through the air at 500 miles per hour all while shoulder to shoulder with hundreds of other folks. My head also about explodes hearing the replace your mask between bites or sips of your drink. Supposedly that is all in the mandate. I've not had much luck finding the actual mandate to see.
 
c3000flyboy
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:09 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.


With all due respect, this rediculousness has been going on faaaarrrrr longer than any mask mandate.

People have punched, sworn and spit at, yelled derogatory things at crew and fellow passengers for much longer than the past 2.5 years. This list has been asked for much longer as well.
In many situations, the issues are exacerbated by alcohol; walk through almost any airport in the US and you'll see bar after bar with to-go cups. Others by stubbornness, rudeness and at times, mental illness.

And back to your attempted correlation between masks and unruly passengers, this is actually about jerkfaces that don't want to follow a rule. Aaaany rule.
Before any masks, he was the guy that screamed in the face of an agent because he had been told that the flight was closed and he would be rebooked, she is the one that loudly complained about a crying baby and swore at a flight attendant because the FA told her to keep her voice down, he was the guy that got into a fist fight with another passenger because he couldn't follow the rules of avoiding obnoxious behavior in the boarding lounge, she was the one that punched a flight attendant because she didn't want to put her tray up.

Any "abuse" of a list by crew/airlines will be dealt with by rules that, rightfully so, protect the public from any malicious reports. But really, it is unlikely that you were dragged away by police because I didn't like your face.

Being told by an airline that they don't want someone's money because of his ridiculous behavior is on par with the bartender at his local pub barring him because he's drunk; and an abusive drunk at that. This new list will enable the nextdoor pub to make their own decision. Either invite the guy in or say "No bud, you ain't worth the hassle and expense or abuse of our other paying guests. Beat it."

If someone can't play by the rules and act like some sort of normal human being, get off the plane and out of the airport. When waiting for shuttle to the parking lot, the "Conditions of Carriage" are an stimulating read.
 
Noshow
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:01 am

I agree to the concept and consider myself a friendly and cooperative passenger who doesn't want to stand maniacs going crazy, drugged or drunk anymore.

However if the increasing problems with unruly passengers are seriously to be solved it looks like we should change not only the legislation but the real life of the flying crowds:
Feed them and give them something to drink (non alc). At least the basics. Bring back airline seating to basic comfort for today's bigger and fatter average people. Bring back restroom sizes and fresh air vents to normal standards.
Organize airports, security and flows to avoid unnecessary stress to the paying customer. Give people a reliable working time by that they need to be there and make it and make flying seamless again. A lot of formerly single source (airline) operations are now an endless row of separate companies trying to do their best. Understaffed sometimes, unmotivated, unwilling or unable. This is where most of the frustration seems to come from.

We should solve the root causes and not expect punishment to be enough.
 
mxaxai
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:30 am

Clearly this is a step in the right direction. Either follow the rules or get kicked out.

Nobody wants to be stuck in a tube with abusive passengers, terrorists or any other people who endanger the health, safety and happiness of their fellow travellers. Imagine being forced to sit next to someone fiercely beating their meat throughout the flight. Just think of the children!
 
11C
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:52 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.

It’s the inability to comply with a rule that is the problem. It’s a personal behavioral problem for some. So you want to make it easier for them by removing the rule? How about bringing smoking back, that must be an annoying rule to comply with. Air transport has lots of rules. Complying with the rules is part of the agreement you make when you buy a ticket.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:57 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.


Perfectly fine opinion, but the mask mandate is no excuse for abusive behavior. If people can’t control themselves with respect to a policy that is clear and well understood then they shouldn’t fly. Whether people agree with the policy is an unrelated and different topic.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:14 pm

yeogeo wrote:
In a bipartisan effort, the U.S. congress is proposing a bill which would create an airline-wide list, maintained by the TSA, so that "people convicted of assaulting crew members aboard an aircraft could be placed on a “no-fly” list...


The key word is convicted. Formal legal proceedings have appeals processes. When crew assert that a passenger did XXX prohibited behavior they're going to have to be deposed (and likely testify in court). These are way, way higher standards than the current practice of carriers maintaining their own no-fly lists.
 
airbazar
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:27 pm

MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.


100% agreed.
Or force airlines to provide better service. What we need is a "protection from abusive airline" act? Delays, delays, and more delays without compensation. Cramped seats. Can't even put my carry-on in a overhead bin these days, without paying extra for it. The abusiveness in the industry starts with the airlines not the passengers. The passengers are just reacting to the way they are being treated.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:53 pm

MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.


Employees facing the public should have to take abuse on the daily just because a few might misreport? I don't think so. Workers have a basic right to a reasonably safe and professional work environment. And this goes back waaaaaay further than pandemic mitigation measures - just ask any FA union.
 
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armagnac2010
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:55 pm

On one hand, I see the need for the list.

On the other hand, if not managed properly, it could disturbingly end up looking like the Chinese social credit system.

It would need to provide some serious guaranties, with possibility to appeal etc. Possibly involvement of the legal system. Good news for the lawyers.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:55 pm

airbazar wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.


100% agreed.
Or force airlines to provide better service. What we need is a "protection from abusive airline" act? Delays, delays, and more delays without compensation. Cramped seats. Can't even put my carry-on in a overhead bin these days, without paying extra for it. The abusiveness in the industry starts with the airlines not the passengers. The passengers are just reacting to the way they are being treated.


If you don't want cramped seats, surely you can pay more for the ones that aren't? Flying is not public transportation - unless you're advocating for state takeover of private airlines, these arguments are fruitless. Bad customer service is not 'abuse' either - vote with your wallet/feet. Traveling is still a choice, last time I checked.
 
dmanonice
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:59 pm

airbazar wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.


100% agreed.
Or force airlines to provide better service. What we need is a "protection from abusive airline" act? Delays, delays, and more delays without compensation. Cramped seats. Can't even put my carry-on in a overhead bin these days, without paying extra for it. The abusiveness in the industry starts with the airlines not the passengers. The passengers are just reacting to the way they are being treated.


Force airlines to provide better services? Are you willing to pay for it? Because it already exists for the most part. Want a bigger seat, buy business class or premium economy. Don't want t pay a fee to stow your carry on don't fly the airlines that charge that fee. Bottom line, don't like the product don't buy it, that is the only way service changes in the airline world. Only ULCCs fly to your local airport, time to consider alternate arrangements. What's more important convenience or comfort?

The passengers are reacting to things they disagree with but agreed to when they bought the ticket. The airlines policies are all available but like most fine print it gets ignored by the purchaser and then they get angry when it's enforced. Do airlines need to do a better job of consistently enforcing the rules, and need to know their own rules better, yes for sure, but to assert that people are reacting to mistreatment in my opinion is false the passenger tends to be the maker of their own demise.

The industry is reflective of what the consumer is willing to pay for, and by in large the average person wants a cheap fare to get from A to B. The problem is with that greyhound price that people want to pay, people still want and expect Pan Am white glove service and the two are not compatible. Unbundled fares are the best thing to come around to the industry in my opinion. I buy the services I want or need and I don't feel like I am subsidizing someone else's needs on the flight.

The only minimum mandates of service for airlines that need to exist do exist. Extended tarmac delays are covered. Equal access for those with disabilities is covered making it an even field (theoretically at least, I know this doesn't always happen in practice). Compensation for delays within the airlines control are in place (at least in Canada and Europe, can't remember about the US at the moment). If you start letting the government dictate service levels you may as well have the airlines nationalized and all under one name..... now where have we seen that before.

Just my opinion.
 
airbazar
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:06 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.


100% agreed.
Or force airlines to provide better service. What we need is a "protection from abusive airline" act? Delays, delays, and more delays without compensation. Cramped seats. Can't even put my carry-on in a overhead bin these days, without paying extra for it. The abusiveness in the industry starts with the airlines not the passengers. The passengers are just reacting to the way they are being treated.


If you don't want cramped seats, surely you can pay more for the ones that aren't? Flying is not public transportation - unless you're advocating for state takeover of private airlines, these arguments are fruitless. Bad customer service is not 'abuse' either - vote with your wallet/feet. Traveling is still a choice, last time I checked.


Can say the same thing about people working for the airlines. If you can't handle the job you go work somewhere else.
The fact is, we didn't have this problem 30 years ago when airlines treated customers with respect.
When I lose a full day of work because the airline failed to staff appropriately and all I get in compensation is a $100 voucher, something is seriously wrong. So yes, the government needs to intervene, 100%.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:10 pm

airbazar wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
airbazar wrote:

100% agreed.
Or force airlines to provide better service. What we need is a "protection from abusive airline" act? Delays, delays, and more delays without compensation. Cramped seats. Can't even put my carry-on in a overhead bin these days, without paying extra for it. The abusiveness in the industry starts with the airlines not the passengers. The passengers are just reacting to the way they are being treated.


If you don't want cramped seats, surely you can pay more for the ones that aren't? Flying is not public transportation - unless you're advocating for state takeover of private airlines, these arguments are fruitless. Bad customer service is not 'abuse' either - vote with your wallet/feet. Traveling is still a choice, last time I checked.


Can say the same thing about people working for the airlines. If you can't handle the job you go work somewhere else.
The fact is, we didn't have this problem 30 years ago when airlines treated customers with respect.
When I lose a full day of work because the airline failed to staff appropriately and all I get in compensation is a $100 voucher, something is seriously wrong. So yes, the government needs to intervene, 100%.


I suggest reading the contract of carriage again. Nowhere does it say the airline's operation is sacrosanct or infallible or your money back.
 
IADCA
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:19 pm

I take it that none of you have exceedingly common names. The problem with these lists is always implementation.

As soon as one John Smith gets convicted of assaulting flight crew, the onus goes on every other John Smith to prove he's not a criminal by applying for a redress number or similar. Given the number of innocent John Smiths/Robert Williamses/Elizabeth Joneses compared to the guilty ones, you're inevitably going to cause some issues. As someone who has had to spend a lot of time over my entire adult life proving that I'm not a criminal to numerous different official bodies due solely to having a common name, this proposal makes me nervous for no reason than having to do that again.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:25 pm

MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.


I don't agree. Cabin crew are paid pitifully and have to deal with all sorts of issues in the cabin, all the time, and carry the added burden of being the eyes and ears for the captain and enforcers of federal mandates and company policies. It is not a fair burden. Does the experience of flying trend toward uncomfortable, cramped, and generally unpleasant? Yes. Is it the industry's fault? Yes but it is also thanks to decades of a flying public demanding cheap fares.

Anyway, back to the abusive passenger. I was on a flight out of Austin last week where my seat mate kept taking his mask off. He was warned politely, and professionally by the flight attendants three times to put it back on. Later in flight, he turned to me and complained about the political divide in America and "Covid Theater". Thankfully, he didn't disrupt the flight and was actually polite about letting me get out to go to the bathroom and helped me with my bag, but here's the thing. The Federal Mask mandate isn't an airline policy it is a federal government policy. Can you smoke on a plane? No. Can you light up a joint in the bathroom? No. Are seatbelts to be worn when driving a car? Yes. Can you yell fire in a movie theater without consequences? No. If you can't bring yourself to wear a mask and follow a simple rule, then ride a bicycle to your destination or walk and stop making an already stressful experience more challenging for everyone around you. The bastard got a pronounced Bronx cheer as he exited the plane on arrival. He looked embarrassed and was red in the face. #satisfaction.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:25 pm

IADCA wrote:
I take it that none of you have exceedingly common names. The problem with these lists is always implementation.

As soon as one John Smith gets convicted of assaulting flight crew, the onus goes on every other John Smith to prove he's not a criminal by applying for a redress number or similar. Given the number of innocent John Smiths/Robert Williamses/Elizabeth Joneses compared to the guilty ones, you're inevitably going to cause some issues. As someone who has had to spend a lot of time over my entire adult life proving that I'm not a criminal to numerous different official bodies due solely to having a common name, this proposal makes me nervous for no reason than having to do that again.


Maybe changing to Theodore Bundy would help? :shhh:
 
flipdewaf
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:55 pm

I have some questions.
How many people ave done this a second time?
Can you be banned before an incident? Is this like minority report?
Do we believe the passengers at fault are thinking rationally when they behave in these ways?
What’s more important, retribution for problem causing behaviour or prevention of problems? (I don’t believe they are necessarily mutually exclusive).

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
miami123
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:17 pm

This is a complicated issue and yes I worry about abuse. While rare there's definitely flight attendants and gate agents on power trips and given the nature of the job, particularly with the former, no one there to curb their abuse.

But no doubt the public seems to get ruder by the day taking their "frustrations" out on innocent service workers that can't do a damn thing to resolve their issue. It also doesn't help that the airline business model is now built upon a butt in every seat on every flight. heavy banked flights, too many planes for airports (can also thank airport authorities-can you say Austin), and not enough resources available for irregular operations. The infrequent flyer has no clue as to what to do when a flight is delayed and cancelled.

What needs to be done is aggressive prosecution because as my mother used to say birds of a feather fly together (no pun intended). In other words the "word" gets out.
 
NLINK
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:28 pm

airbazar wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of this proposal, partly because this has the potential of being abused by the flight crew/airlines; even after the Covid situation quiets down. Right now though, if the airlines, crews and the federal government want to curtail the unruly passenger incidents, perhaps they should advocate for the ending of the federal mask mandate (especially since the majority of the incidents have a connection to it) instead.

Just my two cents.


100% agreed.
Or force airlines to provide better service. What we need is a "protection from abusive airline" act? Delays, delays, and more delays without compensation. Cramped seats. Can't even put my carry-on in a overhead bin these days, without paying extra for it. The abusiveness in the industry starts with the airlines not the passengers. The passengers are just reacting to the way they are being treated.


It's an optional service you choose. People have alternative means such as a personal vehicle, a train in some instances and a bus. Travel by plane is not a right. People know the rules before getting on a plane. The issue is the public and certain people always wanting his or her way and they pitch fits like a young child when they don't get his or her way.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:33 pm

IADCA wrote:
I take it that none of you have exceedingly common names. The problem with these lists is always implementation.

As soon as one John Smith gets convicted of assaulting flight crew, the onus goes on every other John Smith to prove he's not a criminal by applying for a redress number or similar. Given the number of innocent John Smiths/Robert Williamses/Elizabeth Joneses compared to the guilty ones, you're inevitably going to cause some issues. As someone who has had to spend a lot of time over my entire adult life proving that I'm not a criminal to numerous different official bodies due solely to having a common name, this proposal makes me nervous for no reason than having to do that again.


I have a common name too. And it's a fair concern. But, it seems to me that since the carriers and TSA have a date of birth and a gender for each passenger, this particular database might have less of this issue if implemented sensibly. That's obviously a big if.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:45 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

I suggest reading the contract of carriage again. Nowhere does it say the airline's operation is sacrosanct or infallible or your money back.


No, but the Federal Trade Commssion, from its inception more than 100 years ago, can prohibit 'unfair and deceptive trade practices.' It could certainly take a stance that absence of crew, or weather (when there's no weather at your origin, destination, or in between) such that you are delivered to your destination 12 hours late is unfair without generaous compensation. It can do that irrespective of the language in any carrier's C of C.
 
atpg5
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:19 pm

DRG I think I sat next to you recently.
I nominate you as FIRST member of the new No Fly list.
A Rule is a Rule is a Rule
 
IADCA
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Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:19 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
IADCA wrote:
I take it that none of you have exceedingly common names. The problem with these lists is always implementation.

As soon as one John Smith gets convicted of assaulting flight crew, the onus goes on every other John Smith to prove he's not a criminal by applying for a redress number or similar. Given the number of innocent John Smiths/Robert Williamses/Elizabeth Joneses compared to the guilty ones, you're inevitably going to cause some issues. As someone who has had to spend a lot of time over my entire adult life proving that I'm not a criminal to numerous different official bodies due solely to having a common name, this proposal makes me nervous for no reason than having to do that again.


I have a common name too. And it's a fair concern. But, it seems to me that since the carriers and TSA have a date of birth and a gender for each passenger, this particular database might have less of this issue if implemented sensibly. That's obviously a big if.


It didn't help me when it came to TSA previously. Until getting a redress number, I got a SSSS every time and couldn't get pre-check. That was just not tenable when flying on a weekly basis. Maybe times have improved as databases have. It's been a minute, but that experience is seared into my memory.

Aaron747 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
I take it that none of you have exceedingly common names. The problem with these lists is always implementation.

As soon as one John Smith gets convicted of assaulting flight crew, the onus goes on every other John Smith to prove he's not a criminal by applying for a redress number or similar. Given the number of innocent John Smiths/Robert Williamses/Elizabeth Joneses compared to the guilty ones, you're inevitably going to cause some issues. As someone who has had to spend a lot of time over my entire adult life proving that I'm not a criminal to numerous different official bodies due solely to having a common name, this proposal makes me nervous for no reason than having to do that again.


Maybe changing to Theodore Bundy would help? :shhh:


I once suggested Mohammed Atta, as he didn't seem to have any trouble getting through airport security. :shock:
 
DRG
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:15 pm

Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:30 pm

atpg5 wrote:
DRG I think I sat next to you recently.
I nominate you as FIRST member of the new No Fly list.
A Rule is a Rule is a Rule



I am happy to know you remember me. I am the most quiet person on the flight. I put on my mask except for a brief bite to eat if it is more than 2 hours. I watch though that the inconsistency by all sides. The sooner it is over the better. If the RULE is extended beyond April 18 then I will be the loudest person on the flight. Enough already.
 
NLINK
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:48 pm

atpg5 wrote:
DRG I think I sat next to you recently.
I nominate you as FIRST member of the new No Fly list.
A Rule is a Rule is a Rule


I agree with you. Spent 3 hours taking tiny bits of food and arguing with the crew about the mask. DRG number one on the new No Fly list.
 
dmanonice
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:09 am

Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:04 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

I suggest reading the contract of carriage again. Nowhere does it say the airline's operation is sacrosanct or infallible or your money back.


No, but the Federal Trade Commssion, from its inception more than 100 years ago, can prohibit 'unfair and deceptive trade practices.' It could certainly take a stance that absence of crew, or weather (when there's no weather at your origin, destination, or in between) such that you are delivered to your destination 12 hours late is unfair without generaous compensation. It can do that irrespective of the language in any carrier's C of C.


I will agree that the compensation for carrier controllable delays (crew shortage, late aircraft out of scheduled maintenance for example) should be commiserate to the length of delay in arrival at your destination airport. Compensation for weather, even if the weather is not at your origin, destination or along your flight's planned route, is not fair to the airline. They have no control over the weather (despite passenger common beliefs) and there are not always tail swap options to protect a departure flight if the inbound is late due to weather. In snow and ice conditions de-icing is a legal requirement to fly so how can you penalize an airline for following the law or making decisions not to put your safety and the safety of their own employees in jeopardy by operating through thunderstorms?
 
Pinto
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm

Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:31 pm

airbazar wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
airbazar wrote:

100% agreed.
Or force airlines to provide better service. What we need is a "protection from abusive airline" act? Delays, delays, and more delays without compensation. Cramped seats. Can't even put my carry-on in a overhead bin these days, without paying extra for it. The abusiveness in the industry starts with the airlines not the passengers. The passengers are just reacting to the way they are being treated.


If you don't want cramped seats, surely you can pay more for the ones that aren't? Flying is not public transportation - unless you're advocating for state takeover of private airlines, these arguments are fruitless. Bad customer service is not 'abuse' either - vote with your wallet/feet. Traveling is still a choice, last time I checked.


Can say the same thing about people working for the airlines. If you can't handle the job you go work somewhere else.
The fact is, we didn't have this problem 30 years ago when airlines treated customers with respect.
When I lose a full day of work because the airline failed to staff appropriately and all I get in compensation is a $100 voucher, something is seriously wrong. So yes, the government needs to intervene, 100%.


I mean you can't get mad at someone for taking a job where the people they serve suddenly became ducks. It sounds like your solution to this is people leaving their jobs because people can't wear a mask for 2 hours. Give me a break.
 
GuillaumePhilly
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 12:10 am

Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:59 am

Just my two cents.

100% agreed.
Or force airlines to provide better service. What we need is a "protection from abusive airline" act? Delays, delays, and more delays without compensation. Cramped seats. Can't even put my carry-on in a overhead bin these days, without paying extra for it. The abusiveness in the industry starts with the airlines not the passengers. The passengers are just reacting to the way they are being treated.


Yes, because two wrongs make a right? This is what's wrong with people today. Someone treats you in a way that you don't like so, instead of acting like a civilized adult and either advocating for change or voting with your wallet, you throw a temper tantrum and punch someone. Yeah, real mature. "It's the airline's fault I punched the flight attendant." Everyone has the right to go to work without fearing being assaulted because you're feeling feelings. Feelings aren't facts. Get over it. Your rights to express those feelings end where my face begins.

Air travel is an expensive business. Look at the history of airlines. It's not exactly an industry that one would say has a reputation that for being a huge money maker. You don't get first class treatment and pay Spirit prices. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
 
User avatar
Scoreboard
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:06 pm

Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:40 pm

Interesting details on the size of two fines last year - $82k and $77k - those people probably cannot afford to fly anytime soon!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61047164
 
davescj
Posts: 1329
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

Re: “The Protection From Abusive Passengers Act” Unveiled

Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:08 am

This is totally needed. I have 1million+ miles if all my flights were combined. I have held top status on 2 airlines at once. I have rarely had a bad flight crew or gate agent. In 49 years, I have sent in only 1 complaint to the FAA. I have found FAs, GAs, etc. to be incredibly polite, efficient, and a pleasure to fly with well over 99% of the time. I make a point to say this when I send in a survey.

Therefore- yes, we need this mandate. There is no excuse for this kind of bad behavior.

I do not care if you agree with the mask mandate or not. That is not relevant. The behavior is. You can follow the regulations or choose another mode of transportation. I think that in addition to fines, if your behavior causes a delay, other passengers should be able to sue for loss of time, connections, etc.

As others have said- if you fly as cheap as possible, be ready for that service. I choose to fly Y+ (and can afford the up charge). Do I expect to get what's advertised for the price? yes. And speaking (only my experience on DL), I have rarely been disappointed. In those few cases, I didn't make a scene or grip. If I was particularly and unusually disappointed in service, I will contact the airline.

But more common? I write to say what a great flight.

IF people cannot behave in public, then they should not be there.

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