Interesting article here. Wondering if it’s Allegiant?

https://www.wkrg.com/baldwin-county/com ... lf-shores/

CIDFlyer wrote:

Interesting article here. Wondering if it’s Allegiant?

https://www.wkrg.com/baldwin-county/com ... lf-shores/

the article seems to imply the unnamed carrier would have 737's so def. not Allegiant

RJNUT wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

Interesting article here. Wondering if it’s Allegiant?

https://www.wkrg.com/baldwin-county/com ... lf-shores/

the article seems to imply the unnamed carrier would have 737's so def. not Allegiant

SY going after SCASD grants.

Rookinla wrote:

RJNUT wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

Interesting article here. Wondering if it’s Allegiant?

https://www.wkrg.com/baldwin-county/com ... lf-shores/

the article seems to imply the unnamed carrier would have 737's so def. not Allegiant

SY going after SCASD grants.

There seems to be an additional airline flying "737 type aircraft" involved:

Elite Airways and Sun Country are two of the airlines that have signed letters of intent flying from Nashville and Minneapolis respectively. The third airline is still a secret but we’re told they will fly to multiple destinations in a 737 type aircraft. That announcement is expected in June.

Avelo ?

https://mynbc15.com/news/local/gulf-sho ... or-airport

Dallas or Atlanta, multiple destinations, and 737 type aircraft has WN written all over it.

RJNUT wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

Interesting article here. Wondering if it’s Allegiant?

https://www.wkrg.com/baldwin-county/com ... lf-shores/

the article seems to imply the unnamed carrier would have 737's so def. not Allegiant

Yeah but it said 737 type, doesn’t necessarily say definitely flying it…but didn’t Allegiant just order 737s?

gdavis003 wrote:

https://mynbc15.com/news/local/gulf-shores-city-leaders-seek-commercial-air-service-terminal-for-airport

Dallas or Atlanta, multiple destinations, and 737 type aircraft has WN written all over it.

That’s what I was thinking but WN said no more destinations for the next few years and this seems like the least likely if they did add something.

It is Alaska with double daily flights to BOI and GEG.

Wneast wrote:

Avelo ?

That’s possible…but it mentioned a significant airline, which leads me to believe something bigger.

LOL like the area needs ANOTHER commercially served airport?

ytib wrote:

It is Alaska with double daily flights to BOI and GEG.

Thanks for thinking about me lol.

CIDFlyer wrote:

Wneast wrote:

Avelo ?

That’s possible…but it mentioned a significant airline, which leads me to believe something bigger.

The SCASD application for JKA mentions G4, SY and 7Q as their “partners.” And the article didn’t say that ATL and/or DFW were on the horizon. It said that you “can’t get anywhere from here without going there first.” So they’re going for point to point leisure traffic from cities like BNA and farther north…likely the Midwest.

I don’t think that you’ll see a major coming to JKA for a while. DL, UA, WN and AA are already covered in several airports right down the road. I think that you’ll see all three of the carriers I mentioned above sooner rather than later if they get the grant.

Rookinla wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

Wneast wrote:

Avelo ?

That’s possible…but it mentioned a significant airline, which leads me to believe something bigger.

The SCASD application for JKA mentions G4, SY and 7Q as their “partners.” And the article didn’t say that ATL and/or DFW were on the horizon. It said that you “can’t get anywhere from here without going there first.” So they’re going for point to point leisure traffic from cities like BNA and farther north…likely the Midwest.

I don’t think that you’ll see a major coming to JKA for a while. DL, UA, WN and AA are already covered in several airports right down the road. I think that you’ll see all three of the carriers I mentioned above sooner rather than later if they get the grant.

Must be G4 with them potentially operating 737 Because they are getting 737s.

AHA 1X weekly from RNO.

sprxUSA wrote:

LOL like the area needs ANOTHER commercially served airport?

MOB is well over an hour away from Gulf Shores/OBA and that's on a good day with no traffic, which puts you closer to two hours. PNS is more feasible, but that's still an hour away. At that point, if you're flying in from a place like Minneapolis, it makes much more sense to go to Destin and fly into VPS or PCB and fly into ECP and Uber to your rental condo/house/hotel. It's a wise attempt to recapture some of the non-driving traffic that has gone to Destin/Panama City/30A because of the closer airports.

Rookinla wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

Wneast wrote:

Avelo ?

That’s possible…but it mentioned a significant airline, which leads me to believe something bigger.

The SCASD application for JKA mentions G4, SY and 7Q as their “partners.” And the article didn’t say that ATL and/or DFW were on the horizon. It said that you “can’t get anywhere from here without going there first.” So they’re going for point to point leisure traffic from cities like BNA and farther north…likely the Midwest.

I don’t think that you’ll see a major coming to JKA for a while. DL, UA, WN and AA are already covered in several airports right down the road. I think that you’ll see all three of the carriers I mentioned above sooner rather than later if they get the grant.

I agree, G4 seems to be their target over WN, and they seem to have support from G4 already. Here's the DOT document for anyone interested: https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0003-0021

However, I don't think the "this has the potential to get us to one of those two" is there for no reason. I would not be surprised if WN added service to JKA from DAL or ATL, and G4 flies to neither. There is quite a large market of second homeowners/tourists from Dallas and Atlanta to Gulf Shores, see page 21.

sprxUSA wrote:

LOL like the area needs ANOTHER commercially served airport?

It’s a booming area. Look at Floridas west coast- TPA, PIE, SRQ, PGD, RSW.

I’m definitely thinking it’s Allegiant now with that letter of support. Another thing is there was an article a couple of years ago when the airport planners were modeling it after PGD, which is another large Allegiant station. I could see JKA becoming a decent sized spot for Allegiant, it’s far enough from VPS and it could become like another PGD whereas PNS nearby would be like RSW with the majors/legacy airlines.

CIDFlyer wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

LOL like the area needs ANOTHER commercially served airport?

It’s a booming area. Look at Floridas west coast- TPA, PIE, SRQ, PGD, RSW.

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

ytib wrote:

It is Alaska with double daily flights to BOI and GEG.

Wneast, is that you?

sea13 wrote:

ytib wrote:

It is Alaska with double daily flights to BOI and GEG.

Wneast, is that you?

No they probably said that just for me though lol.

wedgetail737 wrote:

AHA 1X weekly from RNO.

Thanks for that! Little too far for rode hard ex TransStates birds

MSP is mentioned as a contender in the article. I'd say SY.

TWA772LR wrote:

MSP is mentioned as a contender in the article. I'd say SY.

SY and Elite are already known to be coming. The article references a 3rd airline with significant service

usflyer msp wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

LOL like the area needs ANOTHER commercially served airport?

It’s a booming area. Look at Floridas west coast- TPA, PIE, SRQ, PGD, RSW.

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

Perhaps, however we are only talking about 3 current airports PNS VPS and ECP and a possible 4th JKA. I wouldn’t consider MOB to be much of a factor here as it’s not a viable candidate to serve beach traffic. Nor GPT that’s 2 hours away. Basically the stretch of the Alabama beaches east to Panama City.

Allegiant seems to create and generate more traffic. They master this well. Gulf Shores has become increasingly popular especially with midwesterners and baby boomers. PNS is currently the only viable airport to serve this area but yet it’s a decent hike (I’ve used it for the past 25 years). I’ve witnessed the tr growth in this area and the population changes. The development of VPS didn’t seem to hurt PNS and that airport continues to expand and both areas continue to grow. I envision JKA to be like PGD as a large Allegiant destination flying to cities in the Midwest on a non daily basis and generating an capturing passengers with their cheaper airfares that currently drive. PNS will continue to grow with the legacies/Spirit/Frontier. JKA is far enough away from VPS and ECP to affect them.

I wonder why did fail Mobile downtown airport (BFM)? Frontier and Sprit left Mobile recently. Didn't make it well services. Mobile airport (MOB) is still flying by Delta, United Express, and American Connection. Mobile and Gulf Shores are closer apart area. I wonder if Gulf Shores will make it.

Q

Q wrote:

I wonder why did fail Mobile downtown airport (BFM)? Frontier and Sprit left Mobile recently. Didn't make it well services. Mobile airport (MOB) is still flying by Delta, United Express, and American Connection. Mobile and Gulf Shores are closer apart area. I wonder if Gulf Shores will make it.

Q

The initial Frontier service at BFM was essentially a trial run with a temporary terminal. Once COVID hit, Frontier left BFM, and they mothballed the temporary terminal. Throughout the pandemic, plans have progressed for the move of all service from MOB to BFM. They are planning for the new terminal at BFM currently, which is expected to occur in Fall 2024. In the meantime, I doubt that Mobile will see new service to MOB, but once BFM opens, more options will arise when the legacies all shift. BFM is unlikely to capture much traffic headed to Gulf Shores though, mainly for Mobile/North Baldwin county residents/visitors

https://www.al.com/news/mobile/2022/04/ ... ation.html

Are all of these carriers we are discussing okay operating on 100 foot wide runways, or is there a plan afoot to increase the width of 9/27?

usflyer msp wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

LOL like the area needs ANOTHER commercially served airport?

It’s a booming area. Look at Floridas west coast- TPA, PIE, SRQ, PGD, RSW.

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

Small-midsize airports close together just cannibalize each other. Duplication in security/runways/ticket counters/gates means low utilization of everything (including labor) and drives up costs per enplanement. ULCCs struggle to build frequency. Legacy carriers don't get the passenger numbers to build frequency, serve multiple hubs, or use larger/lower CASM aircraft. There's nothing wrong with a 75-minute journey to the airport when everybody has to have a car, anyway.

See Binghamton v. Elmira/Corning, and those airports are in the same state. We'll never see Alabama and Florida coordinate to have a large Panhandle airport.

Cubsrule wrote:

Are all of these carriers we are discussing okay operating on 100 foot wide runways, or is there a plan afoot to increase the width of 9/27?

Yes, Key West is 100 feet and all of those types also operate/have operated into there.

usflyer msp wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

LOL like the area needs ANOTHER commercially served airport?

It’s a booming area. Look at Floridas west coast- TPA, PIE, SRQ, PGD, RSW.

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

That is very stereotypical for the Emerald Coast. Middle Class? Apparently you haven't been to Miramar, Seasside, Santa Rosa. It is very popular with all. We got in about nine years ago at our house and yes, it does attract middle class tourists (just like the Gold Coast or Space Coast does). When we do fly, flights are always packed. Just did up and back 2x over the past month and packed to the gills.

KCaviator wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

Are all of these carriers we are discussing okay operating on 100 foot wide runways, or is there a plan afoot to increase the width of 9/27?

Yes, Key West is 100 feet and all of those types also operate/have operated into there.

My question was more about OpSpecs than about aircraft capability. All of the aircraft are capable but that doesn't mean that the carriers can or will operate onto narrow runways.

MIflyer12 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

It’s a booming area. Look at Floridas west coast- TPA, PIE, SRQ, PGD, RSW.

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

Small-midsize airports close together just cannibalize each other. Duplication in security/runways/ticket counters/gates means low utilization of everything (including labor) and drives up costs per enplanement. ULCCs struggle to build frequency. Legacy carriers don't get the passenger numbers to build frequency, serve multiple hubs, or use larger/lower CASM aircraft. There's nothing wrong with a 75-minute journey to the airport when everybody has to have a car, anyway.

See Binghamton v. Elmira/Corning, and those airports are in the same state. We'll never see Alabama and Florida coordinate to have a large Panhandle airport.

I'm not sure it's a great analogy because a lot of the smaller airports that have struggled have struggled in part because of better road access and higher speed limits. Binghamton has a straight shot of rural interstate to SYR, and Elmira/Corning has a straight shot of rural interstate to ROC. Meanwhile, both ROC and SYR probably have more LFC service than they have ever had.

The geography is different in the Panhandle and Gulf; JKA-MOB is less than 50 miles as the crow flies, but that's easily a two hour drive on summer weekends.

TWA302 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

It’s a booming area. Look at Floridas west coast- TPA, PIE, SRQ, PGD, RSW.

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

That is very stereotypical for the Emerald Coast. Middle Class? Apparently you haven't been to Miramar, Seasside, Santa Rosa. It is very popular with all. We got in about nine years ago at our house and yes, it does attract middle class tourists (just like the Gold Coast or Space Coast does). When we do fly, flights are always packed. Just did up and back 2x over the past month and packed to the gills.

People are not spending thousands of dollars on a family trip to the Panhandle. Full stop. Middle class is not a stereotype, it is the truth.

usflyer msp wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

That is very stereotypical for the Emerald Coast. Middle Class? Apparently you haven't been to Miramar, Seasside, Santa Rosa. It is very popular with all. We got in about nine years ago at our house and yes, it does attract middle class tourists (just like the Gold Coast or Space Coast does). When we do fly, flights are always packed. Just did up and back 2x over the past month and packed to the gills.

People are not spending thousands of dollars on a family trip to the Panhandle. Full stop. Middle class is not a stereotype, it is the truth.

It really depends where you are on the Panhandle. Panama City is probably fairly described as a middle class beach. Seaside not so much. I know a number of 7- and 8-figure net worth folks in Nashville who go to Seaside and similar places on a regular basis.

But bringing this back on topic, most of the nice parts of the "north Gulf coast" are not convenient to JKA. Gulf Shores is very much a driving market. That's a big part of the reason why traffic is so atrocious on summer weekends.

Hmm, 737 type aircraft? What's the size difference between an A220-300 and a 737-700/800? It's getting a little Breezy in here.

CIDFlyer wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

CIDFlyer wrote:

It’s a booming area. Look at Floridas west coast- TPA, PIE, SRQ, PGD, RSW.

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

Perhaps, however we are only talking about 3 current airports PNS VPS and ECP and a possible 4th JKA. I wouldn’t consider MOB to be much of a factor here as it’s not a viable candidate to serve beach traffic. Nor GPT that’s 2 hours away. Basically the stretch of the Alabama beaches east to Panama City.

Allegiant seems to create and generate more traffic. They master this well. Gulf Shores has become increasingly popular especially with midwesterners and baby boomers. PNS is currently the only viable airport to serve this area but yet it’s a decent hike (I’ve used it for the past 25 years). I’ve witnessed the tr growth in this area and the population changes. The development of VPS didn’t seem to hurt PNS and that airport continues to expand and both areas continue to grow. I envision JKA to be like PGD as a large Allegiant destination flying to cities in the Midwest on a non daily basis and generating an capturing passengers with their cheaper airfares that currently drive. PNS will continue to grow with the legacies/Spirit/Frontier. JKA is far enough away from VPS and ECP to affect them.

The outcome for JKA could go one of two ways: It could duplicate the success of PGD as a strong niche market for an airline such as G4. But it could also end up like SGJ (St. Augustine) where F9 failed to generate enough demand between 2014-17 and refocused on serving JAX (an hour north), instead. The only way to find out is for an airline to give JKA a try. Naturally, the JKA advocates are making hints that a major airline like WN might be interested (e.g. WN dominates the market at ECP), but I'm thinking more along the lines of G4 and perhaps MX will be their airlines.

If ULCC service to JKA turns out to be a success, the long-term loser might be PNS, which would have JKA snagging LCC/ULCC traffic away from it. Part of the recent service boom at PNS has been due in part to it being the closest commercial airport to Gulf Shores, which is a fast-growing tourist market. As for BFM (after the planned move), I just see the same level of service that is now at MOB, consisting of mostly regional jets connecting to major hubs. VPS, which is the gateway to the more popular resorts in Ft. Walton Beach, Destin and Seaside, will probably be largely unaffected.

usflyer msp wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

That is very stereotypical for the Emerald Coast. Middle Class? Apparently you haven't been to Miramar, Seasside, Santa Rosa. It is very popular with all. We got in about nine years ago at our house and yes, it does attract middle class tourists (just like the Gold Coast or Space Coast does). When we do fly, flights are always packed. Just did up and back 2x over the past month and packed to the gills.

People are not spending thousands of dollars on a family trip to the Panhandle. Full stop. Middle class is not a stereotype, it is the truth.

Millions of people spend thousands of dollars on trips to the Panhandle/Alabama Gulf Coast every year. Seaside, Rosemary, Alys Beach, Ono Island are all very expensive. The entire gulf coast is not PCB.

I simply don't get it....the Florabamasippi coast is SOOO seasonal. I grew up there...yes January is better there than Chicago but no one flocks there in the winter. It's chilly and it's the wet season....drizzle and 45 dosent draw tourists. I question the wisdom of dumping infrastructure dollars into a project that gets used from April to early October.

No way it's WN, not with their current stance on growth and already being an hour down the road in PNS. This seems like something XP would try.

gdavis003 wrote:

https://mynbc15.com/news/local/gulf-shores-city-leaders-seek-commercial-air-service-terminal-for-airport

Dallas or Atlanta, multiple destinations, and 737 type aircraft has WN written all over it.

I refuse to believe Southwest would add JKA but cant give us ANC, JAC, FCA, DAB, AVL, HSV, ROA, TLH...the list goes on

Italianflyer wrote:

I simply don't get it....the Florabamasippi coast is SOOO seasonal. I grew up there...yes January is better there than Chicago but no one flocks there in the winter. It's chilly and it's the wet season....drizzle and 45 dosent draw tourists. I question the wisdom of dumping infrastructure dollars into a project that gets used from April to early October.

I would envision most flights to be seasonal like Myrtle Beach or Destin but maybe have a few routes like Destin that are year round (I.e. Cincinnati, MSP, Grand Rapids etc). It’s a big snowbird market and snowbirds like having their kids and grandkids come down to visit the grand parents and make a long weekend out of it. My parents have been snowbirds at Orange Beach since 1997. I’ve always come down towards the end end of Feb and while there have been those foggy drizzly days I’ve also had my share of beautiful weather over the years with plenty of beach walks and sun tans to go back to Iowa with.

usflyer msp wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

That is very stereotypical for the Emerald Coast. Middle Class? Apparently you haven't been to Miramar, Seasside, Santa Rosa. It is very popular with all. We got in about nine years ago at our house and yes, it does attract middle class tourists (just like the Gold Coast or Space Coast does). When we do fly, flights are always packed. Just did up and back 2x over the past month and packed to the gills.

People are not spending thousands of dollars on a family trip to the Panhandle. Full stop. Middle class is not a stereotype, it is the truth.

Full stop. You are wrong. Families are spending thousands and I am proof of that as are many of the homes of our friends and neighbors. Bookings out through March 2023 for when we are not there at rates you would not believe. The emerald cost isn't the dump you make it out to be.

evank516 wrote:

Hmm, 737 type aircraft? What's the size difference between an A220-300 and a 737-700/800? It's getting a little Breezy in here.

Theres already talk of Breeze serving Downtown when the airport finally opens here. Likely wont be Breeze due to that.

Im in Baldwin County this week and was told by someone involved in the JKA project that the unnamed airline is Allegiant.

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Im in Baldwin County this week and was told by someone involved in the JKA project that the unnamed airline is Allegiant.

G4 is not unnamed. They are listed on JKA’s SCASD grant application and have been discussed at length as having committed to this project.

usflyer msp wrote:

People are not spending thousands of dollars on a family trip to the Panhandle. Full stop. Middle class is not a stereotype, it is the truth.

Instead of writing "full stop" (as if that means anything), perhaps you could share a source of financial data, that gives you that impression?

Can personally attest that my family was spending thousands on trips to Sandestin/Topsail, both being full of plenty of other families doing the same; and that was in the '80s and early '90s. Can't imagine what the prices are like today.

LAX772LR wrote:

Can't imagine what the prices are like today.

Then again, why imagine?

Just did a spot-check for a Thurs-Sun next month at both the Sandestin Beachside and Grand Village.
Avg nightly about $388.... so there's your $1500 right there, before spending a cent on anything else.

usflyer msp wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

There is no comparison between the Gulf Coast of FL and the Panhandle/AL/MS. The former gets visitors from all over the world because it is actually warm in the Winter and the latter basically gets middle income people from within driving distance. There is some fly-in traffic but nowhere near enough to support six airports.

That is very stereotypical for the Emerald Coast. Middle Class? Apparently you haven't been to Miramar, Seasside, Santa Rosa. It is very popular with all. We got in about nine years ago at our house and yes, it does attract middle class tourists (just like the Gold Coast or Space Coast does). When we do fly, flights are always packed. Just did up and back 2x over the past month and packed to the gills.

People are not spending thousands of dollars on a family trip to the Panhandle. Full stop. Middle class is not a stereotype, it is the truth.

LOL. Come for a stroll with me through Alys Beach (or anywhere on 30A for that matter).

kickazzz2000 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

That is very stereotypical for the Emerald Coast. Middle Class? Apparently you haven't been to Miramar, Seasside, Santa Rosa. It is very popular with all. We got in about nine years ago at our house and yes, it does attract middle class tourists (just like the Gold Coast or Space Coast does). When we do fly, flights are always packed. Just did up and back 2x over the past month and packed to the gills.

People are not spending thousands of dollars on a family trip to the Panhandle. Full stop. Middle class is not a stereotype, it is the truth.

LOL. Come for a stroll with me through Alys Beach (or anywhere on 30A for that matter).

I love it when I tell people I vacation "in between Destin and Panama City." Everyone assumes I mean the trashy beach towns like those mentioned. Rarely has anyone even heard of 30A, which makes me love the area even more. Even people from Florida have never heard of it. The sugar sand beaches and crystal clear water are unmatched in the US, and the area almost has a Caribbean feel to it. I want to say it's a best kept secret, but when I see all of the multi-million dollar homes in the area, I think otherwise.