zkncj wrote:

Kiwings wrote:

Lack of cabin crew is not surprising and will be an on going problem due to the contract the returning crew have had to accept. Minimum wage is not exactly an attractive wage and certainly doesn't encourage people to stay. I can see problems going forward in retaining cabin crew.

Couple that with a tight labour market in New Zealand, with the offical in employment rate only being 3%. It seems that finding crew is going to be extremely difficult on there new contract.

I wonder if they would look to using offshore crew?

ZK-NBT wrote:

GW54 wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

7 less international 320s? Not sure is 7, currently 1 older CEO remains in the old international configuration. But most of those that were still flying had moved to domestic to increase capacity there.

The seven A320CEO's were replaced by 7 A321NEO's and 4 A320NEO's.

Yes mostly pre Covid bar the last 2-3, but there was an overlap of 3 additional A320s for the domestic fleet. Plus still 1-2 in the international fleet.

GW54 wrote:

The seven A320CEO's were replaced by 7 A321NEO's and 4 A320NEO's.

GW54 wrote:

Domestic fleet totals 17- OAB,OJQ,OJR,OJS and 13 SL models OXA-OXM. OJM the oldest 320 is primarily used domestically but also appears occasionally going up to the Islands. Regional A321NEO's and A320NEO's also are used regularly on Domestic services but I suspect that will reduce as regional flying increases. OJM is the only regional 320CEO remaining and is to be retired with the delivery of the first domestic A321 in a couple of months.

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.

NZ516 wrote:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.

So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

NZ516 wrote:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.

So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.

So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?

ZK-NBT wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:



So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?

It does seem fairly inaccurate doesn’t it? AFAIK there are 8 GE powered 787s on order, the exact breakdown is flexible but the first 2 I believe had been changed to 789s, I’m guessing those may run JFK when they do arrive given the PIP?

zkncj wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?

It does seem fairly inaccurate doesn’t it? AFAIK there are 8 GE powered 787s on order, the exact breakdown is flexible but the first 2 I believe had been changed to 789s, I’m guessing those may run JFK when they do arrive given the PIP?

Along with maybe an larger new J Cabin? in the leaked floor plans for the new J seat there was seats behind 2R/L. Which would make sense with probably high J/PE demand

NZ516 wrote:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.

So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

PA515 wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.

So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

Just noticed ZK-OKO is listed on https://myairtrade.com/available/B777 for operating lease or sale available 31 March 2023. That's 12 years since delivery in March 2011, so the usual 12 year lease. The listing was updated 29 April 2022. This is different from the 24 Feb 2022 Interim Report which had 6 x 77W as at 30 Jun 2022, 30 Jun 2023, 30 Jun 2024, then 5 x 77W 30 Jun 2025, then 4 x 77W 30 Jun 2026 and 0 x 77W 30 Jun 2028.

PA515

ZK-NBT wrote:

Interesting thing is that OKO is the third frame at AKL, I wouldn’t think they would RTS for literally a few months then withdraw it permanently.

ZK-NBT wrote:

What is different from the FEB 2022 report though? Is there less 77Ws?

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.

So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?

NZ516 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:



So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?

Hi David, it's seems a mistake that they not include that order anywhere on the page. I sent them feedback asking that it's missing from their list. The seven domestic A321s on order are listed. Be good to find out why the GE 787 order is not shown it's a real mystery.

NZ6 wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?

Hi David, it's seems a mistake that they not include that order anywhere on the page. I sent them feedback asking that it's missing from their list. The seven domestic A321s on order are listed. Be good to find out why the GE 787 order is not shown it's a real mystery.

I think we're putting way to much emphasis on what's essentially a static 'information' page.

We're not talking about investor information or anything else which has commercial ramifications to the business.

You're feedback will likely end up in a queue of tens of thousands at the reservations center, you may get a generic reply (if at all) and they'll probably forward it to the web content specialist (if you're lucky) who is likely already aware but it's worrying about keeping the constantly changing COVID rules up to to date.

PA515 wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.

So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

Just noticed ZK-OKO is listed on https://myairtrade.com/available/B777 for operating lease or sale available 31 March 2023. That's 12 years since delivery in March 2011, so the usual 12 year lease. The listing was updated 29 April 2022. This is different from the 24 Feb 2022 Interim Report which had 6 x 77W as at 30 Jun 2022, 30 Jun 2023, 30 Jun 2024, then 5 x 77W 30 Jun 2025, then 4 x 77W 30 Jun 2026 and 0 x 77W 30 Jun 2028.

PA515

NZ516 wrote:

So it confirms that OKO is the one to not return to service with Air NZ.

NZ516 wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Hi David, it's seems a mistake that they not include that order anywhere on the page. I sent them feedback asking that it's missing from their list. The seven domestic A321s on order are listed. Be good to find out why the GE 787 order is not shown it's a real mystery.

I think we're putting way to much emphasis on what's essentially a static 'information' page.

We're not talking about investor information or anything else which has commercial ramifications to the business.

You're feedback will likely end up in a queue of tens of thousands at the reservations center, you may get a generic reply (if at all) and they'll probably forward it to the web content specialist (if you're lucky) who is likely already aware but it's worrying about keeping the constantly changing COVID rules up to to date.

Fair point being a static page it only seems gets updated once a year each time I check. Probably won't get a response as you say too many other higher priority s to see to.

zkncj wrote:

I flew AKL-BNE (NZ) and BNE-AKL (QF) over the weekend and the contrast between the two was massive. Admittedly I had purchased the Works on NZ, but then that was still much cheaper than QF.

QF on the Tasman now felt like an Australian domestic flight, with the meal now comes in a cardboard box like on say SYD-MEL. The overall qaulity of the meal was pretty poor, being called Bangers and Mash (more like Bangers and slop).

The IFE content was average with just a couple of movies, and the seat pitch was below average.

I’m not sure what you were planning more for over JQ? Other the included meal box, which you can purchase on JQ for like $10.

On the other hand, NZ is still doing an proper meal on tray with bread and ice cream.

The IFE content on NZ seemed to be 3-4x that on QF, along with having free wifi.

Qantas really felt more like an LCC experience.

The arrival process in AKL is now almost back to precovid, part from the welcome gift of 3x RAT’s at MPI.

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

I think we're putting way to much emphasis on what's essentially a static 'information' page.

We're not talking about investor information or anything else which has commercial ramifications to the business.

You're feedback will likely end up in a queue of tens of thousands at the reservations center, you may get a generic reply (if at all) and they'll probably forward it to the web content specialist (if you're lucky) who is likely already aware but it's worrying about keeping the constantly changing COVID rules up to to date.

Fair point being a static page it only seems gets updated once a year each time I check. Probably won't get a response as you say too many other higher priority s to see to.

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.

NZ6 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.

Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.

Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

Yes, it is sloppy. They managed to get other info correct. And yes, to imply there are no 787s on order IS just plain wrong. It's not a question of whether the reader is an avgeek - it's a question of professionalism and I would have expected better.

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

I think we're putting way to much emphasis on what's essentially a static 'information' page.

We're not talking about investor information or anything else which has commercial ramifications to the business.

You're feedback will likely end up in a queue of tens of thousands at the reservations center, you may get a generic reply (if at all) and they'll probably forward it to the web content specialist (if you're lucky) who is likely already aware but it's worrying about keeping the constantly changing COVID rules up to to date.

Fair point being a static page it only seems gets updated once a year each time I check. Probably won't get a response as you say too many other higher priority s to see to.

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.

NZ6 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Fair point being a static page it only seems gets updated once a year each time I check. Probably won't get a response as you say too many other higher priority s to see to.

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.

Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

The 77W information is correct. They have 1 operational and 6 in storage. Yes those who follow this closely will know there are plans not to bring all 6 back into operational service but the information is not wrong.

Sounds like a problem only the av-geeks would care about.

Avtur wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.

Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

The 77W information is correct. They have 1 operational and 6 in storage. Yes those who follow this closely will know there are plans not to bring all 6 back into operational service but the information is not wrong.

Sounds like a problem only the av-geeks would care about.

The “one” operational, is about about to be joined by another one (OKN) which is on test at AKL as I write this.

NZ6 wrote:

Avtur wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

The 77W information is correct. They have 1 operational and 6 in storage. Yes those who follow this closely will know there are plans not to bring all 6 back into operational service but the information is not wrong.

Sounds like a problem only the av-geeks would care about.

The “one” operational, is about about to be joined by another one (OKN) which is on test at AKL as I write this.

One could argue, it's not "one" now. It's no longer in storage after all. It's in MX

77west wrote:

How is Ardern getting to the USA - the B757 surely would not have the range so I am thinking Air NZ charter, or stop in Hawaii to refuel?

77west wrote:

How is Ardern getting to the USA - the B757 surely would not have the range so I am thinking Air NZ charter, or stop in Hawaii to refuel?

NZ6 wrote:

77west wrote:

How is Ardern getting to the USA - the B757 surely would not have the range so I am thinking Air NZ charter, or stop in Hawaii to refuel?

Not sure on the route, but she is going on the 757

Avtur wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

Avtur wrote:

The “one” operational, is about about to be joined by another one (OKN) which is on test at AKL as I write this.

One could argue, it's not "one" now. It's no longer in storage after all. It's in MX

It was due to operate to MEL as NZ6237, but the departure time was 1000 local. Slight delay….!

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.

77west wrote:

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.

I would think A320 / A321 would be the most logical choice, given Air NZ experience with the type. I doubt you would see a widebody. The 757's are versatile being used as both VIP and cargo, and with the side cargo door. I don't know if the A320 P2F would be certified for this mixed use scenario. A better option might be to decouple the cargo/troop deployment from the VIP role. Get something like a Global Express for the VIP role and some A400M for the troop/cargo role.

ZK-NBT wrote:

Avtur wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

One could argue, it's not "one" now. It's no longer in storage after all. It's in MX

It was due to operate to MEL as NZ6237, but the departure time was 1000 local. Slight delay….!

I would suggest you misread. It was an engine test run this morning. Test flight AKL-AKL should be in the next day or 2.

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.

Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

Yes, it is sloppy. They managed to get other info correct. And yes, to imply there are no 787s on order IS just plain wrong. It's not a question of whether the reader is an avgeek - it's a question of professionalism and I would have expected better.

DavidByrne wrote:

77west wrote:

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.

I would think A320 / A321 would be the most logical choice, given Air NZ experience with the type. I doubt you would see a widebody. The 757's are versatile being used as both VIP and cargo, and with the side cargo door. I don't know if the A320 P2F would be certified for this mixed use scenario. A better option might be to decouple the cargo/troop deployment from the VIP role. Get something like a Global Express for the VIP role and some A400M for the troop/cargo role.

Agree that an A321(X)LR would be a good option for the 757 replacement. But I doubt we'll ever see the A400M in NZDF service given the new C130s on order.

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.

Sprite8806 wrote:

Ik i have asked this b4, but any updates on Emirates coming to Wellington? is there still a chance? Or is it just a rumour with no genuine chance of happening

77west wrote:

Sprite8806 wrote:

Ik i have asked this b4, but any updates on Emirates coming to Wellington? is there still a chance? Or is it just a rumour with no genuine chance of happening

Would have to be via somewhere, at least on outbound. The 200LR or even 300ER could do DXB-WLG but not the return. Via where though? They probably need to get AKL back up to daily non stop which is looking like end of the year at best.

Sprite8806 wrote:

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.

I would love to see a 767 back in NZ, or an A330, but I don't think either will happen. Will probs be an A321Neo or A320Neo, maybe a 737

zkncj wrote:

I don’t think we would see anything from the a320 family, as the are already getting P8s from Boeing.

Something in the 737Max family would probably make sense e.g. cross pilot capability with the P8.

77west wrote:

Sprite8806 wrote:

Ik i have asked this b4, but any updates on Emirates coming to Wellington? is there still a chance? Or is it just a rumour with no genuine chance of happening

Would have to be via somewhere, at least on outbound. The 200LR or even 300ER could do DXB-WLG but not the return. Via where though? They probably need to get AKL back up to daily non stop which is looking like end of the year at best.