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NZ516
Posts: 1154
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 1:20 am

zkncj wrote:
Kiwings wrote:
Lack of cabin crew is not surprising and will be an on going problem due to the contract the returning crew have had to accept. Minimum wage is not exactly an attractive wage and certainly doesn't encourage people to stay. I can see problems going forward in retaining cabin crew.


Couple that with a tight labour market in New Zealand, with the offical in employment rate only being 3%. It seems that finding crew is going to be extremely difficult on there new contract.

I wonder if they would look to using offshore crew?


I just seen Air NZ have 320 cabin crew positions listed on the careers page for AKL, WLG and CHC bases. Certainly is a tight market for finding new staff.
 
GW54
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:05 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 9:32 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
GW54 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

7 less international 320s? Not sure is 7, currently 1 older CEO remains in the old international configuration. But most of those that were still flying had moved to domestic to increase capacity there.


The seven A320CEO's were replaced by 7 A321NEO's and 4 A320NEO's.


Yes mostly pre Covid bar the last 2-3, but there was an overlap of 3 additional A320s for the domestic fleet. Plus still 1-2 in the international fleet.


Domestic fleet totals 17- OAB,OJQ,OJR,OJS and 13 SL models OXA-OXM. OJM the oldest 320 is primarily used domestically but also appears occasionally going up to the Islands. Regional A321NEO's and A320NEO's also are used regularly on Domestic services but I suspect that will reduce as regional flying increases. OJM is the only regional 320CEO remaining and is to be retired with the delivery of the first domestic A321 in a couple of months.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1154
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 7:31 pm

GW54 wrote:

The seven A320CEO's were replaced by 7 A321NEO's and 4 A320NEO's.


That is if you go back to 2018 when the first A321NEO arrived.
But since then 12 A320 CEOs have left not just seven and OJM to go shortly. Total NEO fleet now stands at 13. With 7 new domestic models to come.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1154
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 7:37 pm

GW54 wrote:

Domestic fleet totals 17- OAB,OJQ,OJR,OJS and 13 SL models OXA-OXM. OJM the oldest 320 is primarily used domestically but also appears occasionally going up to the Islands. Regional A321NEO's and A320NEO's also are used regularly on Domestic services but I suspect that will reduce as regional flying increases. OJM is the only regional 320CEO remaining and is to be retired with the delivery of the first domestic A321 in a couple of months.


Sorry I didn't see you put this new comment after your other one on the previous page.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1154
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 1:41 am

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.


So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8732
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 4:01 am

NZ516 wrote:
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.


So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.


It did have that note previously stating 7 77Ws in storage, it may have said 6 though I can’t recall. Leaving their options open.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 2049
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 8:29 am

NZ516 wrote:
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.


So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?
 
zkncj
Posts: 4593
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 9:04 am

What has been happening with QF119 BNE-AKL for the past week? It seems to be constantly 1hr late (at least for the past day).
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA119

Looking todays rotation which was AKL-MEL-AKL-BNE-AKL, by the end of the day the aircraft is running over an hour late (and has done for the last week).
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8732
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 9:23 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.


So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?



It does seem fairly inaccurate doesn’t it? AFAIK there are 8 GE powered 787s on order, the exact breakdown is flexible but the first 2 I believe had been changed to 789s, I’m guessing those may run JFK when they do arrive given the PIP?
 
zkncj
Posts: 4593
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 9:28 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:



So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?



It does seem fairly inaccurate doesn’t it? AFAIK there are 8 GE powered 787s on order, the exact breakdown is flexible but the first 2 I believe had been changed to 789s, I’m guessing those may run JFK when they do arrive given the PIP?


Along with maybe an larger new J Cabin? in the leaked floor plans for the new J seat there was seats behind 2R/L. Which would make sense with probably high J/PE demand
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8732
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 9:36 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?



It does seem fairly inaccurate doesn’t it? AFAIK there are 8 GE powered 787s on order, the exact breakdown is flexible but the first 2 I believe had been changed to 789s, I’m guessing those may run JFK when they do arrive given the PIP?


Along with maybe an larger new J Cabin? in the leaked floor plans for the new J seat there was seats behind 2R/L. Which would make sense with probably high J/PE demand


I would be very sure the new frames will have the new product, these aren’t due until second half 2023 I believe.
 
PA515
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 9:43 am

NZ516 wrote:
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.


So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.


Just noticed ZK-OKO is listed on https://myairtrade.com/available/B777 for operating lease or sale available 31 March 2023. That's 12 years since delivery in March 2011, so the usual 12 year lease. The listing was updated 29 April 2022. This is different from the 24 Feb 2022 Interim Report which had 6 x 77W as at 30 Jun 2022, 30 Jun 2023, 30 Jun 2024, then 5 x 77W 30 Jun 2025, then 4 x 77W 30 Jun 2026 and 0 x 77W 30 Jun 2028.

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8732
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 9:56 am

PA515 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.


So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.


Just noticed ZK-OKO is listed on https://myairtrade.com/available/B777 for operating lease or sale available 31 March 2023. That's 12 years since delivery in March 2011, so the usual 12 year lease. The listing was updated 29 April 2022. This is different from the 24 Feb 2022 Interim Report which had 6 x 77W as at 30 Jun 2022, 30 Jun 2023, 30 Jun 2024, then 5 x 77W 30 Jun 2025, then 4 x 77W 30 Jun 2026 and 0 x 77W 30 Jun 2028.

PA515


Interesting thing is that OKO is the third frame at AKL, I wouldn’t think they would RTS for literally a few months then withdraw it permanently.

What is different from the FEB 2022 report though? Is there less 77Ws?
 
PA515
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 10:07 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Interesting thing is that OKO is the third frame at AKL, I wouldn’t think they would RTS for literally a few months then withdraw it permanently.

I guess it will be used for about six months and then returned to BBAM.

ZK-NBT wrote:
What is different from the FEB 2022 report though? Is there less 77Ws?

Don't know. The difference is that there is a 77W leaving the fleet in FY2023. The 24 Feb 2022 Interim Report had one leaving in FY2022, then one in FY2025 and another one in FY2026.

PA515
 
NZ516
Posts: 1154
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 12:45 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.


So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?


Hi David, it's seems a mistake that they not include that order anywhere on the page. I sent them feedback asking that it's missing from their list. The seven domestic A321s on order are listed. Be good to find out why the GE 787 order is not shown it's a real mystery.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2163
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 10:28 pm

NZ516 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:



So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.

I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?


Hi David, it's seems a mistake that they not include that order anywhere on the page. I sent them feedback asking that it's missing from their list. The seven domestic A321s on order are listed. Be good to find out why the GE 787 order is not shown it's a real mystery.


I think we're putting way to much emphasis on what's essentially a static 'information' page.

We're not talking about investor information or anything else which has commercial ramifications to the business.

You're feedback will likely end up in a queue of tens of thousands at the reservations center, you may get a generic reply (if at all) and they'll probably forward it to the web content specialist (if you're lucky) who is likely already aware but it's worrying about keeping the constantly changing COVID rules up to to date.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4593
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 1:41 am

I flew AKL-BNE (NZ) and BNE-AKL (QF) over the weekend and the contrast between the two was massive. Admittedly I had purchased the Works on NZ, but then that was still much cheaper than QF.

QF on the Tasman now felt like an Australian domestic flight, with the meal now comes in a cardboard box like on say SYD-MEL. The overall qaulity of the meal was pretty poor, being called Bangers and Mash (more like Bangers and slop).

The IFE content was average with just a couple of movies, and the seat pitch was below average.

I’m not sure what you were planning more for over JQ? Other the included meal box, which you can purchase on JQ for like $10.

On the other hand, NZ is still doing an proper meal on tray with bread and ice cream.

The IFE content on NZ seemed to be 3-4x that on QF, along with having free wifi.

Qantas really felt more like an LCC experience.

The arrival process in AKL is now almost back to precovid, part from the welcome gift of 3x RAT’s at MPI.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1154
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 2:07 am

NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
I checked the link and was surprised to see that the airline says that it has 14 787-9s operational and NONE on order. Is this a mistake? I thought there was one or even two more with GE engines on order which had been converted from the 787-10 order. No mention of 787-10s either. Have these been quietly dropped in favour of the existing 777-300ER fleet? Or is it just inaccurate?


Hi David, it's seems a mistake that they not include that order anywhere on the page. I sent them feedback asking that it's missing from their list. The seven domestic A321s on order are listed. Be good to find out why the GE 787 order is not shown it's a real mystery.


I think we're putting way to much emphasis on what's essentially a static 'information' page.

We're not talking about investor information or anything else which has commercial ramifications to the business.

You're feedback will likely end up in a queue of tens of thousands at the reservations center, you may get a generic reply (if at all) and they'll probably forward it to the web content specialist (if you're lucky) who is likely already aware but it's worrying about keeping the constantly changing COVID rules up to to date.


Fair point being a static page it only seems gets updated once a year each time I check. Probably won't get a response as you say too many other higher priority s to see to.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1154
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 2:50 am

PA515 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

Air New Zealand fleet updated to 30 April 2022
This is interesting as it says at the top
Boeing 777-300ER
1 in operation. Then further down the page it's says:

Air New Zealand's fleet also includes 6 Boeing 777-300ER aircraft which are currently in storage and will be reactivated as demand recovers following the New Zealand borders opening.


So we may see all seven return to service in the year ahead.
As demand recovers there will be need for more capacity during peak periods.


Just noticed ZK-OKO is listed on https://myairtrade.com/available/B777 for operating lease or sale available 31 March 2023. That's 12 years since delivery in March 2011, so the usual 12 year lease. The listing was updated 29 April 2022. This is different from the 24 Feb 2022 Interim Report which had 6 x 77W as at 30 Jun 2022, 30 Jun 2023, 30 Jun 2024, then 5 x 77W 30 Jun 2025, then 4 x 77W 30 Jun 2026 and 0 x 77W 30 Jun 2028.

PA515


That is a good find thanks PA515
So it confirms that OKO is the one to not return to service with Air NZ.
 
PA515
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 3:43 am

NZ516 wrote:
So it confirms that OKO is the one to not return to service with Air NZ.


BBAM have it available from 31 Mar 2023. What happens to it before then is not clear. It could return to service for six months or remain in storage.

PA515
 
anstar
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 7:45 am

[quote="zkncj"]
QF on the Tasman now felt like an Australian domestic flight, with the meal now comes in a cardboard box like on say SYD-MEL. The overall qaulity of the meal was pretty poor, being called Bangers and Mash (more like Bangers and slop). /quote]

Given the flight is on a 737 and around the same flight time as an AU domestic flight I guess there is no real reason to pull out all the stops. Was it a tray service in economy on TT before Covid? I seem to recall it was just a hot meal in a container?
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 2049
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 12:37 pm

NZ516 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Hi David, it's seems a mistake that they not include that order anywhere on the page. I sent them feedback asking that it's missing from their list. The seven domestic A321s on order are listed. Be good to find out why the GE 787 order is not shown it's a real mystery.


I think we're putting way to much emphasis on what's essentially a static 'information' page.

We're not talking about investor information or anything else which has commercial ramifications to the business.

You're feedback will likely end up in a queue of tens of thousands at the reservations center, you may get a generic reply (if at all) and they'll probably forward it to the web content specialist (if you're lucky) who is likely already aware but it's worrying about keeping the constantly changing COVID rules up to to date.


Fair point being a static page it only seems gets updated once a year each time I check. Probably won't get a response as you say too many other higher priority s to see to.

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2878
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 9:28 pm

zkncj wrote:
I flew AKL-BNE (NZ) and BNE-AKL (QF) over the weekend and the contrast between the two was massive. Admittedly I had purchased the Works on NZ, but then that was still much cheaper than QF.

QF on the Tasman now felt like an Australian domestic flight, with the meal now comes in a cardboard box like on say SYD-MEL. The overall qaulity of the meal was pretty poor, being called Bangers and Mash (more like Bangers and slop).

The IFE content was average with just a couple of movies, and the seat pitch was below average.

I’m not sure what you were planning more for over JQ? Other the included meal box, which you can purchase on JQ for like $10.

On the other hand, NZ is still doing an proper meal on tray with bread and ice cream.

The IFE content on NZ seemed to be 3-4x that on QF, along with having free wifi.

Qantas really felt more like an LCC experience.

The arrival process in AKL is now almost back to precovid, part from the welcome gift of 3x RAT’s at MPI.


Reflects my experience over the last 6 months with QF on Australian domestic. A sudden and noticeable decline in standards, flight disruptions due to staffing shortages, very poor terminal experiences. Qantas is a bit of a mess at the moment. Yet that doesn't stop them from bilking it on the Tasman. Their fares are insane.

Meanwhile New Zealand has stuck with its pre departure /arrival testing requirements when comparable countries are dropping then entirely, including Australia, as well as sticking with the additional arrival taxes introduced prior to COVID. This after revelations that border closures stopped being recommended by Health authorities around October/November 2021. So can assume there's absolutely no interest from authorities in getting tourism (and flights) back and humming.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2163
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 9:34 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

I think we're putting way to much emphasis on what's essentially a static 'information' page.

We're not talking about investor information or anything else which has commercial ramifications to the business.

You're feedback will likely end up in a queue of tens of thousands at the reservations center, you may get a generic reply (if at all) and they'll probably forward it to the web content specialist (if you're lucky) who is likely already aware but it's worrying about keeping the constantly changing COVID rules up to to date.


Fair point being a static page it only seems gets updated once a year each time I check. Probably won't get a response as you say too many other higher priority s to see to.

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.


Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

The 77W information is correct. They have 1 operational and 6 in storage. Yes those who follow this closely will know there are plans not to bring all 6 back into operational service but the information is not wrong.

Sounds like a problem only the av-geeks would care about.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 2049
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 10:08 pm

NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.


Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

Yes, it is sloppy. They managed to get other info correct. And yes, to imply there are no 787s on order IS just plain wrong. It's not a question of whether the reader is an avgeek - it's a question of professionalism and I would have expected better.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2163
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 10:15 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.


Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

Yes, it is sloppy. They managed to get other info correct. And yes, to imply there are no 787s on order IS just plain wrong. It's not a question of whether the reader is an avgeek - it's a question of professionalism and I would have expected better.


I agree it should be there and would be nice to see.

But sorry, calling it sloppy is just being over dramatic and nitpicking. The average punted likely has no idea and doesn't care what's on order or what may or may not happen in years ahead. If they're interested in the fleet, they're probably curious at best but more likely looking for things like seat maps.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1154
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 10:56 pm

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/las ... HLY72HPRE/

Air Chathams last Convair 580 flew it's very last flight from Auckland to it's new resting place in Wanaka yesterday.
The flight left at 1130 and arrived nearly 3 hours later it will retire at it's new home the National Toy and Transport Museum in Wanaka.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1154
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 11:03 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

I think we're putting way to much emphasis on what's essentially a static 'information' page.

We're not talking about investor information or anything else which has commercial ramifications to the business.

You're feedback will likely end up in a queue of tens of thousands at the reservations center, you may get a generic reply (if at all) and they'll probably forward it to the web content specialist (if you're lucky) who is likely already aware but it's worrying about keeping the constantly changing COVID rules up to to date.


Fair point being a static page it only seems gets updated once a year each time I check. Probably won't get a response as you say too many other higher priority s to see to.

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.


It would be a very easy thing to edit as well. Under the on order line remove the dash and put in 8 a very simple fix.
 
User avatar
Avtur
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:01 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 11:45 pm

NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Fair point being a static page it only seems gets updated once a year each time I check. Probably won't get a response as you say too many other higher priority s to see to.

Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.


Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

The 77W information is correct. They have 1 operational and 6 in storage. Yes those who follow this closely will know there are plans not to bring all 6 back into operational service but the information is not wrong.

Sounds like a problem only the av-geeks would care about.


The “one” operational, is about about to be joined by another one (OKN) which is on test at AKL as I write this.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2163
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 11:57 pm

Avtur wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.


Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

The 77W information is correct. They have 1 operational and 6 in storage. Yes those who follow this closely will know there are plans not to bring all 6 back into operational service but the information is not wrong.

Sounds like a problem only the av-geeks would care about.


The “one” operational, is about about to be joined by another one (OKN) which is on test at AKL as I write this.


One could argue, it's not "one" now. It's no longer in storage after all. It's in MX
 
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Avtur
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 12:09 am

NZ6 wrote:
Avtur wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

The 77W information is correct. They have 1 operational and 6 in storage. Yes those who follow this closely will know there are plans not to bring all 6 back into operational service but the information is not wrong.

Sounds like a problem only the av-geeks would care about.


The “one” operational, is about about to be joined by another one (OKN) which is on test at AKL as I write this.


One could argue, it's not "one" now. It's no longer in storage after all. It's in MX


It was due to operate to MEL as NZ6237, but the departure time was 1000 local. Slight delay….!
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 12:40 am

How is Ardern getting to the USA - the B757 surely would not have the range so I am thinking Air NZ charter, or stop in Hawaii to refuel?
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 1:26 am

ZK-OKN is at the engine test site at the western end of the main AKL taxiway. Test flight in a couple of days?

It's showing up on FR24 as 'TEST', not as ZK-OKN.

Edit: Back in front of the hangar now.

PA515
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 2:12 am

77west wrote:
How is Ardern getting to the USA - the B757 surely would not have the range so I am thinking Air NZ charter, or stop in Hawaii to refuel?


Not sure on the route, but she is going on the 757
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 2:17 am

77west wrote:
How is Ardern getting to the USA - the B757 surely would not have the range so I am thinking Air NZ charter, or stop in Hawaii to refuel?


The main group left Whenuapai on Sat evening on NZ7571 via RAR and HNL to LAX. An earlier press report said she would be departing 'this afternoon', but a later report says 'this evening'. I expect Jacinda will be on NZ6 at 2015 (ZK-NZN with Wifi).

Slightly related, NZ7003 on FR24 has been doing a few flights within Europe, usually a daylight return TMP-SLD-TMP.

PA515
Last edited by PA515 on Mon May 23, 2022 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 2:17 am

NZ6 wrote:
77west wrote:
How is Ardern getting to the USA - the B757 surely would not have the range so I am thinking Air NZ charter, or stop in Hawaii to refuel?


Not sure on the route, but she is going on the 757


With a range of about 9-10,000km in a VIP layout, I would think maybe via RAR or HNL. Not sure if the NZDF has any sort of Aux tanks but I don't think so.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 3:22 am

As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 3:24 am

Avtur wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Avtur wrote:

The “one” operational, is about about to be joined by another one (OKN) which is on test at AKL as I write this.


One could argue, it's not "one" now. It's no longer in storage after all. It's in MX


It was due to operate to MEL as NZ6237, but the departure time was 1000 local. Slight delay….!


I would suggest you misread. It was an engine test run this morning. Test flight AKL-AKL should be in the next day or 2.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 3:31 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.


I would think A320 / A321 would be the most logical choice, given Air NZ experience with the type. I doubt you would see a widebody. The 757's are versatile being used as both VIP and cargo, and with the side cargo door. I don't know if the A320 P2F would be certified for this mixed use scenario. A better option might be to decouple the cargo/troop deployment from the VIP role. Get something like a Global Express for the VIP role and some A400M for the troop/cargo role.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 4:52 am

77west wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.


I would think A320 / A321 would be the most logical choice, given Air NZ experience with the type. I doubt you would see a widebody. The 757's are versatile being used as both VIP and cargo, and with the side cargo door. I don't know if the A320 P2F would be certified for this mixed use scenario. A better option might be to decouple the cargo/troop deployment from the VIP role. Get something like a Global Express for the VIP role and some A400M for the troop/cargo role.

Agree that an A321(X)LR would be a good option for the 757 replacement. But I doubt we'll ever see the A400M in NZDF service given the new C130s on order.
 
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Avtur
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 4:57 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Avtur wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

One could argue, it's not "one" now. It's no longer in storage after all. It's in MX


It was due to operate to MEL as NZ6237, but the departure time was 1000 local. Slight delay….!


I would suggest you misread. It was an engine test run this morning. Test flight AKL-AKL should be in the next day or 2.


You could be right. My source wasn’t the most reliable. Either way it’s not far away from returning to service.
 
NZ801
Posts: 131
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 5:29 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Maybe it does only get updated infrequently, but the fact that it shows one 777-300ER as being operational means that it WAS updated relatively recently. Still unimpressed at its lack of accuracy. No excuse IMO - just sloppy.


Sorry, what's sloppy? the fact they don't show how many 787's are on order? Is that really a big deal? - I mean, yes it's missing, I agree. But to say it's sloppy would imply it's wrong or something.

Yes, it is sloppy. They managed to get other info correct. And yes, to imply there are no 787s on order IS just plain wrong. It's not a question of whether the reader is an avgeek - it's a question of professionalism and I would have expected better.


I’d suggest NZ have far more important things to worry about at the moment than a fleet page on the website.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 6:21 am

DavidByrne wrote:
77west wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.


I would think A320 / A321 would be the most logical choice, given Air NZ experience with the type. I doubt you would see a widebody. The 757's are versatile being used as both VIP and cargo, and with the side cargo door. I don't know if the A320 P2F would be certified for this mixed use scenario. A better option might be to decouple the cargo/troop deployment from the VIP role. Get something like a Global Express for the VIP role and some A400M for the troop/cargo role.

Agree that an A321(X)LR would be a good option for the 757 replacement. But I doubt we'll ever see the A400M in NZDF service given the new C130s on order.


Ah yes I had forgotten about the C130's on order. I just feel that one or more brand new A321XLR(ACJ) might be a bit overkill given how often we need that level of VIP transport, if it can't also do more mundane cargo/troop tasks. If it can't do those other tasks, an A320NEO would do quite nicely. Personally as a tax payer I would have no issue with this or an XLR, if they went widebody, I probably would however. Even Aus has only a single multi-role A330.
 
Sprite8806
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:51 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 6:36 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.


I would love to see a 767 back in NZ, or an A330, but I don't think either will happen. Will probs be an A321Neo or A320Neo, maybe a 737
 
Sprite8806
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:51 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 6:58 am

Ik i have asked this b4, but any updates on Emirates coming to Wellington? is there still a chance? Or is it just a rumour with no genuine chance of happening
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:11 am

Sprite8806 wrote:
Ik i have asked this b4, but any updates on Emirates coming to Wellington? is there still a chance? Or is it just a rumour with no genuine chance of happening


Would have to be via somewhere, at least on outbound. The 200LR or even 300ER could do DXB-WLG but not the return. Via where though? They probably need to get AKL back up to daily non stop which is looking like end of the year at best.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8732
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:26 am

77west wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Ik i have asked this b4, but any updates on Emirates coming to Wellington? is there still a chance? Or is it just a rumour with no genuine chance of happening


Would have to be via somewhere, at least on outbound. The 200LR or even 300ER could do DXB-WLG but not the return. Via where though? They probably need to get AKL back up to daily non stop which is looking like end of the year at best.


I doubt they would run the 300ER non stop to WLG. 3 77Ls I believe have recently returned to lessors.

WLG would seem an odd addition in these times.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4593
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:34 am

Sprite8806 wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
As avgeeks and taxpayers. What do we think would make a good replacement for the 757s? Given they're coming up for replacement in a few years. MRTT would be an obvious option. But could also choose the KC-46. In both cases just deleting the inflight refueling options.


I would love to see a 767 back in NZ, or an A330, but I don't think either will happen. Will probs be an A321Neo or A320Neo, maybe a 737


The RNZAF should of really picked up an couple of ex NZ 763ER’s when they exited the fleet. Surely they would of been sold at bargain rates to Iceland Air.

I don’t think we would see anything from the a320 family, as the are already getting P8s from Boeing.

Something in the 737Max family would probably make sense e.g. cross pilot capability with the P8.

Or they really could save more and just charter an aircraft, when trips like this are required.
 
PA515
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:50 am

zkncj wrote:
I don’t think we would see anything from the a320 family, as the are already getting P8s from Boeing.

Something in the 737Max family would probably make sense e.g. cross pilot capability with the P8.


Whatever they get is unlikely to be new. The 757s were delivered to Transavia in 1993 and the RNZAF got them in 2003.

PA515
 
Sprite8806
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:51 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 8:41 am

77west wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Ik i have asked this b4, but any updates on Emirates coming to Wellington? is there still a chance? Or is it just a rumour with no genuine chance of happening


Would have to be via somewhere, at least on outbound. The 200LR or even 300ER could do DXB-WLG but not the return. Via where though? They probably need to get AKL back up to daily non stop which is looking like end of the year at best.


DXB - WLG - CHC - DXB

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