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Sprite8806
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:51 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 8:42 am

77west wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Ik i have asked this b4, but any updates on Emirates coming to Wellington? is there still a chance? Or is it just a rumour with no genuine chance of happening


Would have to be via somewhere, at least on outbound. The 200LR or even 300ER could do DXB-WLG but not the return. Via where though? They probably need to get AKL back up to daily non stop which is looking like end of the year at best.


I know, but have they shown any actual evidence of interesting in Wellington is what im asking, are they actually thinking of coming
 
NZ321
Posts: 1534
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 10:08 am

Sprite8806 wrote:
77west wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Ik i have asked this b4, but any updates on Emirates coming to Wellington? is there still a chance? Or is it just a rumour with no genuine chance of happening


Would have to be via somewhere, at least on outbound. The 200LR or even 300ER could do DXB-WLG but not the return. Via where though? They probably need to get AKL back up to daily non stop which is looking like end of the year at best.


I know, but have they shown any actual evidence of interesting in Wellington is what im asking, are they actually thinking of coming


Actually on another site an Emirates spokesperson was commenting that NZ is a fair way down the list of priorities for capacity deployment at the moment which is why the A380s can only resume NZ service at the end of the year; so seems a bit unrealistic to expect EK to be launching a new route such as WLG any time soon.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4998
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 11:39 am

Regarding the 757 replacements, is it really needed? Whilst they have had some reliability troubles in the past, I think they largely do what they're meant to. I can't see the government coughing up the money for something new like a neo or MAX. Maybe buy an old 737NG and do the combi conversion (737-700C was delivered new with a cargo door)? I see a dedicated business jet like a GLEX or a Falcon as being a non-starter politically, despite the cost savings as compared to an airliner.

From memory the 727s were run right into the ground. Maybe 40 years old at the time they were replaced?

Opus99 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Don’t be so quick to make those kind of statements. Remember the whole industry is in a state of flux right now.
Also we have just seen QF go with the A350 despite having 787s. NZs 789s are already several years old in most cases so in a decade (or sooner) when they start to be replaced it will be interesting (if not sooner replacing the 77W and already retired 77E).
NZs flights to ORD, JFK and others are still bloody long flights and the 787 is quite tight on the seating and pushing the limits of range. The latter is solvable if Boeing improves the main gear with increased MTOW or rewings/extensions.


Once again, it goes to show the A350 would been the better 'fit' for Air NZ.

According to who? You?


Opus99 wrote:
But sure, it’s the worst purchase they’ve made because you said so.

Next question


NZ6 has a long and admirable track record of being right on fleet Air New Zealand's operational and fleet decisions. I would politely suggest that they deserve quite a lot more respect than such dismissive comments...

77west wrote:
I would not completely rule out the A350 long term. While I have traditionally been more of a Boeing fan, the A350 is an incredible airplane family. Part of the issue is that when the B787 orders were placed, the A350 was a barely upgraded A330 and would have been even worse than the B787 on some of the routes that the 787-10 may struggle on. (And would not have been as big).


Well said. I often wonder who would have won the RFP had it been in say 2009/10 rather than 2004. Quite possibly a lesson in the sunk costs fallacy.

77west wrote:
I reckon if Airbus do an A350 NEO of some sort in, say, 4-5 years time, they could get a foot in the door.


I could see that. Probably no more than eight aircraft. Then again, it would be interesting to know when the various expiry dates of the 787 leases is...
 
NZ516
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 6:28 pm

Queenstown airport welcomes back international flights the first after 330 days since the bubble ended.
Good to see another part of the tourism industry returning at last.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300 ... r-its-last
 
a7ala
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 9:15 pm

Sprite8806 wrote:
77west wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Ik i have asked this b4, but any updates on Emirates coming to Wellington? is there still a chance? Or is it just a rumour with no genuine chance of happening


Would have to be via somewhere, at least on outbound. The 200LR or even 300ER could do DXB-WLG but not the return. Via where though? They probably need to get AKL back up to daily non stop which is looking like end of the year at best.


I know, but have they shown any actual evidence of interesting in Wellington is what im asking, are they actually thinking of coming


EK has a massive mountain to climb in terms of crew hiring and training over the next 12-months, which is why DXB-AKL (requires 2 crews) and SYD-CHC (requires a crew) are some of the last routes to come back. Its unlikely they will publically show any interest in somewhere like WLG - I recall that when SQ announced their start into WLG it took everyone by complete surprise, infact even the head of BARNZ at the time had said a few weeks prior that he wasnt aware of any airline showing any interest in WLG (in response to the runway extension) and then BOOM SQ announced.

I think the game-changer for EK is that SQ's operation of the A350-900 into WLG has proven the runway is long enough for landing code E aircraft. EK had said previously the runway could not handle the 300ER in one of the old QF/EK alliance applications, but changes in the way manufacturers and airlines assess things like grooved runways has made operation into places like WLG possible.

The reality for WLG is that while there are still massive crew shortages it will be lowest on the priority list. This will change over time but not quickly.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2163
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 10:11 pm

77west wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
77west wrote:
How is Ardern getting to the USA - the B757 surely would not have the range so I am thinking Air NZ charter, or stop in Hawaii to refuel?


Not sure on the route, but she is going on the 757


With a range of about 9-10,000km in a VIP layout, I would think maybe via RAR or HNL. Not sure if the NZDF has any sort of Aux tanks but I don't think so.


I'm not actually sure it's right, I didn't see the NZDF depart last night. Jason Walls said on the radio late last week they were travelling with the Air Force, he's the Chief Political Reporter for NZME. That's what my comment was based on. It does seem odd that the PM would go indirect like this. Perhaps NZDF went earlier with the rest of the travelling party?
Last edited by NZ6 on Mon May 23, 2022 10:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
NZ6
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 10:16 pm

PA515 wrote:
77west wrote:
How is Ardern getting to the USA - the B757 surely would not have the range so I am thinking Air NZ charter, or stop in Hawaii to refuel?


The main group left Whenuapai on Sat evening on NZ7571 via RAR and HNL to LAX. An earlier press report said she would be departing 'this afternoon', but a later report says 'this evening'. I expect Jacinda will be on NZ6 at 2015 (ZK-NZN with Wifi).

Slightly related, NZ7003 on FR24 has been doing a few flights within Europe, usually a daylight return TMP-SLD-TMP.

PA515


Oh this likely explains above.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 10:25 pm

PA515 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
I don’t think we would see anything from the a320 family, as the are already getting P8s from Boeing.

Something in the 737Max family would probably make sense e.g. cross pilot capability with the P8.


Whatever they get is unlikely to be new. The 757s were delivered to Transavia in 1993 and the RNZAF got them in 2003.

PA515


I'd imagine, they'd look for something in the 737NG family,

Boeing does have conversion programs so it would allow the NZDF to use them for logistics as well. Or something like the -700BBJ which can have up to 9 aux fuel tanks for extended range if they went that way.

I'm not hugely familiar with this aircraft but isn't the Poseidon based off the -800 so potentially allowing for improved MX/Parts/Training etc - all the usual benefits
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1239
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 10:38 pm

a7ala wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
77west wrote:

Would have to be via somewhere, at least on outbound. The 200LR or even 300ER could do DXB-WLG but not the return. Via where though? They probably need to get AKL back up to daily non stop which is looking like end of the year at best.


I know, but have they shown any actual evidence of interesting in Wellington is what im asking, are they actually thinking of coming


EK has a massive mountain to climb in terms of crew hiring and training over the next 12-months, which is why DXB-AKL (requires 2 crews) and SYD-CHC (requires a crew) are some of the last routes to come back. Its unlikely they will publically show any interest in somewhere like WLG - I recall that when SQ announced their start into WLG it took everyone by complete surprise, infact even the head of BARNZ at the time had said a few weeks prior that he wasnt aware of any airline showing any interest in WLG (in response to the runway extension) and then BOOM SQ announced.

I think the game-changer for EK is that SQ's operation of the A350-900 into WLG has proven the runway is long enough for landing code E aircraft. EK had said previously the runway could not handle the 300ER in one of the old QF/EK alliance applications, but changes in the way manufacturers and airlines assess things like grooved runways has made operation into places like WLG possible.

The reality for WLG is that while there are still massive crew shortages it will be lowest on the priority list. This will change over time but not quickly.


Yeah, I think it's in the possible but very unlikely bucket for at least another couple years. When AKL get the terminals joined and a second runway built it will be even harder to argue for services to WLG over connecting with increased frequency at AKL.
 
a7ala
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 11:13 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:

I know, but have they shown any actual evidence of interesting in Wellington is what im asking, are they actually thinking of coming


EK has a massive mountain to climb in terms of crew hiring and training over the next 12-months, which is why DXB-AKL (requires 2 crews) and SYD-CHC (requires a crew) are some of the last routes to come back. Its unlikely they will publically show any interest in somewhere like WLG - I recall that when SQ announced their start into WLG it took everyone by complete surprise, infact even the head of BARNZ at the time had said a few weeks prior that he wasnt aware of any airline showing any interest in WLG (in response to the runway extension) and then BOOM SQ announced.

I think the game-changer for EK is that SQ's operation of the A350-900 into WLG has proven the runway is long enough for landing code E aircraft. EK had said previously the runway could not handle the 300ER in one of the old QF/EK alliance applications, but changes in the way manufacturers and airlines assess things like grooved runways has made operation into places like WLG possible.

The reality for WLG is that while there are still massive crew shortages it will be lowest on the priority list. This will change over time but not quickly.


Yeah, I think it's in the possible but very unlikely bucket for at least another couple years. When AKL get the terminals joined and a second runway built it will be even harder to argue for services to WLG over connecting with increased frequency at AKL.


I dont think that will make much of a difference. It will depend on whether an airline which doesnt get much of the WLG market sees an opportunity to get more by flying directly in there which we know significantly increases market capture. I actually think QR is a more likely option for WLG than EK would be given EK gets a lot of the WLG market already via the QF partnership.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 12:11 am

NZ6 wrote:
PA515 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
I don’t think we would see anything from the a320 family, as the are already getting P8s from Boeing.

Something in the 737Max family would probably make sense e.g. cross pilot capability with the P8.


Whatever they get is unlikely to be new. The 757s were delivered to Transavia in 1993 and the RNZAF got them in 2003.

PA515


I'd imagine, they'd look for something in the 737NG family,

Boeing does have conversion programs so it would allow the NZDF to use them for logistics as well. Or something like the -700BBJ which can have up to 9 aux fuel tanks for extended range if they went that way.

I'm not hugely familiar with this aircraft but isn't the Poseidon based off the -800 so potentially allowing for improved MX/Parts/Training etc - all the usual benefits


I had forgot about the P8 - you are totally right a B737BBJ would be more likely.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 4:08 am

Qantas resumed 4 routes over the Tasman this week.
Sydney and Melbourne to Wellington, Sydney to Queenstown and Melbourne to Christchurch. Brisbane to Christchurch will also return soon. All flights are operated by 737s.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... ueenstown/
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 7:53 am

NZ6 wrote:
I'd imagine, they'd look for something in the 737NG family,

Boeing does have conversion programs so it would allow the NZDF to use them for logistics as well. Or something like the -700BBJ which can have up to 9 aux fuel tanks for extended range if they went that way.

I'm not hugely familiar with this aircraft but isn't the Poseidon based off the -800 so potentially allowing for improved MX/Parts/Training etc - all the usual benefits


The P-8 has the fuselage of the 737-800 and the wings and engines of the 737-900. The first RNZAF P-8 (L/N 9449) fuselage was completed in March. Don't know when final assembly will be. It will be delivered in December 2022 and the other three during 2023. Apparently it takes a while for the systems to be installed.

PA515
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 8:30 am

NZ516 wrote:
Qantas resumed 4 routes over the Tasman this week.
Sydney and Melbourne to Wellington, Sydney to Queenstown and Melbourne to Christchurch. Brisbane to Christchurch will also return soon. All flights are operated by 737s.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... ueenstown/


Seems to be a few more AKL-MEL,SYD,BNE flights from this week too, along with more a330 services.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 8:43 am

PA515 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I'd imagine, they'd look for something in the 737NG family,

Boeing does have conversion programs so it would allow the NZDF to use them for logistics as well. Or something like the -700BBJ which can have up to 9 aux fuel tanks for extended range if they went that way.

I'm not hugely familiar with this aircraft but isn't the Poseidon based off the -800 so potentially allowing for improved MX/Parts/Training etc - all the usual benefits


The P-8 has the fuselage of the 737-800 and the wings and engines of the 737-900. The first RNZAF P-8 (L/N 9449) fuselage was completed in March. Don't know when final assembly will be. It will be delivered in December 2022 and the other three during 2023. Apparently it takes a while for the systems to be installed.

PA515


Along with a custom raked wingtip (767-400 / 772LR/773ER) rather than the blended winglets on the pax versions of the NG 737. Apparently improves lower alt loitering capability. I could definitely see a couple of 737-800BBJ with a forward cargo door akin to what we see now with the 757's, with a quick change interior, to replace the 757's. But as others pointed out, no rush, the 757's were only retrofitted around 2007/8 so may have a few years in them yet.
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 8:46 am

Doesn't look like OKN made any sort of test flight today. Perhaps yesterdays engine run highlighted some problems?
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 8:58 am

GW54 wrote:
Doesn't look like OKN made any sort of test flight today. Perhaps yesterdays engine run highlighted some problems?


Not necessarily, OKQ did the same I believe. Might also be to do with crew availability.
 
ZK-NBT
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 9:39 am

77west wrote:
GW54 wrote:
Doesn't look like OKN made any sort of test flight today. Perhaps yesterdays engine run highlighted some problems?


Not necessarily, OKQ did the same I believe. Might also be to do with crew availability.


No idea what the problems were but I am quite sure the test flight was due today.

OKQ flew the day after the engine run iirc. Crew availability doesn’t strike me as the problem in this case, more like something flagged during the ground test.
 
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VHTAE
Posts: 237
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 12:14 pm

zkojq wrote:
Regarding the 757 replacements, is it really needed? Whilst they have had some reliability troubles in the past, I think they largely do what they're meant to. I can't see the government coughing up the money for something new like a neo or MAX. Maybe buy an old 737NG and do the combi conversion (737-700C was delivered new with a cargo door)? I see a dedicated business jet like a GLEX or a Falcon as being a non-starter politically, despite the cost savings as compared to an airliner.

From memory the 727s were run right into the ground. Maybe 40 years old at the time they were replaced?

Opus99 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

Once again, it goes to show the A350 would been the better 'fit' for Air NZ.

According to who? You?


Opus99 wrote:
But sure, it’s the worst purchase they’ve made because you said so.

Next question


NZ6 has a long and admirable track record of being right on fleet Air New Zealand's operational and fleet decisions. I would politely suggest that they deserve quite a lot more respect than such dismissive comments...

77west wrote:
I would not completely rule out the A350 long term. While I have traditionally been more of a Boeing fan, the A350 is an incredible airplane family. Part of the issue is that when the B787 orders were placed, the A350 was a barely upgraded A330 and would have been even worse than the B787 on some of the routes that the 787-10 may struggle on. (And would not have been as big).


Well said. I often wonder who would have won the RFP had it been in say 2009/10 rather than 2004. Quite possibly a lesson in the sunk costs fallacy.

77west wrote:
I reckon if Airbus do an A350 NEO of some sort in, say, 4-5 years time, they could get a foot in the door.


I could see that. Probably no more than eight aircraft. Then again, it would be interesting to know when the various expiry dates of the 787 leases is...


RNZAF should look into buying the 2 x RAAF 737BBJs
They’ll do the job.
 
tom90
Posts: 26
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 8:48 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
77west wrote:
GW54 wrote:
Doesn't look like OKN made any sort of test flight today. Perhaps yesterdays engine run highlighted some problems?


Not necessarily, OKQ did the same I believe. Might also be to do with crew availability.


No idea what the problems were but I am quite sure the test flight was due today.

OKQ flew the day after the engine run iirc. Crew availability doesn’t strike me as the problem in this case, more like something flagged during the ground test.


ZK-OKN is currently taxing to the international terminal end now
Looks like it is parked where the freight bays are, where SQ and QF operate their freighters from. ZK-OKQ was parked there this morning
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8735
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 10:37 pm

tom90 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
77west wrote:

Not necessarily, OKQ did the same I believe. Might also be to do with crew availability.


No idea what the problems were but I am quite sure the test flight was due today.

OKQ flew the day after the engine run iirc. Crew availability doesn’t strike me as the problem in this case, more like something flagged during the ground test.


ZK-OKN is currently taxing to the international terminal end now
Looks like it is parked where the freight bays are, where SQ and QF operate their freighters from. ZK-OKQ was parked there this morning


Airborne now. Hopefully all goes well and it should be back in service in a day or 2.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8735
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 10:40 pm

No link but I did read elsewhere that RAR-LAX won’t return. With PPT to be used to link RAR-US, no idea who by, would TN fly a weekly 789 for freight or how about a weekly HA HNL-RAR?

While it will be sad I can’t say I am surprised if this is the case.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 10:55 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
No link but I did read elsewhere that RAR-LAX won’t return. With PPT to be used to link RAR-US, no idea who by, would TN fly a weekly 789 for freight or how about a weekly HA HNL-RAR?

While it will be sad I can’t say I am surprised if this is the case.

If RAR-LAX doesn't return, it's presumably because the Cook Islands Government ahs decided not to provide the guarantees they were providing previously?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8735
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 11:02 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
No link but I did read elsewhere that RAR-LAX won’t return. With PPT to be used to link RAR-US, no idea who by, would TN fly a weekly 789 for freight or how about a weekly HA HNL-RAR?

While it will be sad I can’t say I am surprised if this is the case.

If RAR-LAX doesn't return, it's presumably because the Cook Islands Government ahs decided not to provide the guarantees they were providing previously?


Not sure? At the same time NZ may have decided they need the 787 elsewhere? Interesting to see, there is also RAR-SYD.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 11:15 pm

Talking of RAR, I was looking at flights towards the end of the year and was seeing $700-$900 one way!!

I guess the days of flights + 5 nights accom. for under 2K are gone.
 
NZ516
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 1:13 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
No link but I did read elsewhere that RAR-LAX won’t return. With PPT to be used to link RAR-US, no idea who by, would TN fly a weekly 789 for freight or how about a weekly HA HNL-RAR?

While it will be sad I can’t say I am surprised if this is the case.

If RAR-LAX doesn't return, it's presumably because the Cook Islands Government ahs decided not to provide the guarantees they were providing previously?


Not sure? At the same time NZ may have decided they need the 787 elsewhere? Interesting to see, there is also RAR-SYD.


So RAR to SYD is set for a come back I guess one per week again?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 1:28 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
If RAR-LAX doesn't return, it's presumably because the Cook Islands Government ahs decided not to provide the guarantees they were providing previously?


Not sure? At the same time NZ may have decided they need the 787 elsewhere? Interesting to see, there is also RAR-SYD.


So RAR to SYD is set for a come back I guess one per week again?


No idea sorry until something official is announced, I can’t see NZ commuting to more than 1 weekly.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8735
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 6:00 am

https://www.cookislandsnews.com/interna ... ot-return/

Nothing really new in here but sort of confirmation.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 6:28 am

There's a once weekly ATR flight PPT-RAR. Unless frequency is upped or NZ links the two (TN won't do it) perhaps the govt is giving up the North American market for now.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 6:59 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
tom90 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

No idea what the problems were but I am quite sure the test flight was due today.

OKQ flew the day after the engine run iirc. Crew availability doesn’t strike me as the problem in this case, more like something flagged during the ground test.


ZK-OKN is currently taxing to the international terminal end now
Looks like it is parked where the freight bays are, where SQ and QF operate their freighters from. ZK-OKQ was parked there this morning


Airborne now. Hopefully all goes well and it should be back in service in a day or 2.


And now back in service operating NZ1011/1010 AKL-CHC-AKL-LAX.
 
PA515
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 7:51 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
No link but I did read elsewhere that RAR-LAX won’t return. With PPT to be used to link RAR-US, no idea who by, would TN fly a weekly 789 for freight or how about a weekly HA HNL-RAR?

While it will be sad I can’t say I am surprised if this is the case.


The least commercial risk would probably be an NZ AKL-RAR-PPT-AKL and AKL-PPT-RAR-AKL 32Q connecting with the UA SFO-PPT-SFO, but I don't know the crew time limits for AKL-AKL flights. And there would need to be enough connection time to avoid missed connections due to delays. Otherwise the return of AKL-PPT-RAR-LAX.

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 8:21 am

PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
No link but I did read elsewhere that RAR-LAX won’t return. With PPT to be used to link RAR-US, no idea who by, would TN fly a weekly 789 for freight or how about a weekly HA HNL-RAR?

While it will be sad I can’t say I am surprised if this is the case.


The least commercial risk would probably be an NZ AKL-RAR-PPT-AKL and AKL-PPT-RAR-AKL 32Q connecting with the UA SFO-PPT-SFO, but I don't know the crew time limits for AKL-AKL flights. And there would need to be enough connection time to avoid missed connections due to delays. Otherwise the return of AKL-PPT-RAR-LAX.

PA515


NZ couldn’t run an A320CEO AKL-PPT, not sure if a NEO would be any better with alternates? Crew I have read is an issue as it is and possibly 1 of the reasons the flight won’t return so your suggestion would seem very unlikely. I just don’t think there is enough in it for NZ to bother anymore? It would be AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX.

HA serve PPG\PPT, I wonder if a weekly RAR service makes any sense?
 
NZ516
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 12:38 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
tom90 wrote:

ZK-OKN is currently taxing to the international terminal end now
Looks like it is parked where the freight bays are, where SQ and QF operate their freighters from. ZK-OKQ was parked there this morning


Airborne now. Hopefully all goes well and it should be back in service in a day or 2.


And now back in service operating NZ1011/1010 AKL-CHC-AKL-LAX.


It's a real honour for CHC to get the first revenue service of ZKOKN since the grounding. Although only carrying freight it's been a long time out of action. I wonder which 77W will be next to return to service they certainly have a fair bit of life left in them.
 
PA515
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 1:24 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ couldn’t run an A320CEO AKL-PPT, not sure if a NEO would be any better with alternates? Crew I have read is an issue as it is and possibly 1 of the reasons the flight won’t return so your suggestion would seem very unlikely. I just don’t think there is enough in it for NZ to bother anymore? It would be AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX.
.

An Air NZ 320ceo did an AKL-PPT-AKL not long after the 789 started serving PPT to pick up some stranded pax. Don't think it was a full aircraft though.

Air Rarotonga wants to do RAR-PPT, presumably with their Saab 340B.
https://rnz.co.nz/international/pacific ... ok-islands

PA515
 
NZ801
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 4:32 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
tom90 wrote:

ZK-OKN is currently taxing to the international terminal end now
Looks like it is parked where the freight bays are, where SQ and QF operate their freighters from. ZK-OKQ was parked there this morning


Airborne now. Hopefully all goes well and it should be back in service in a day or 2.


And now back in service operating NZ1011/1010 AKL-CHC-AKL-LAX.


Not quite. AKL-LAX was operated by OKQ.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8735
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 9:38 pm

NZ801 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Airborne now. Hopefully all goes well and it should be back in service in a day or 2.


And now back in service operating NZ1011/1010 AKL-CHC-AKL-LAX.


Not quite. AKL-LAX was operated by OKQ.


Interesting thanks
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8735
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 10:28 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Airborne now. Hopefully all goes well and it should be back in service in a day or 2.


And now back in service operating NZ1011/1010 AKL-CHC-AKL-LAX.


It's a real honour for CHC to get the first revenue service of ZKOKN since the grounding. Although only carrying freight it's been a long time out of action. I wonder which 77W will be next to return to service they certainly have a fair bit of life left in them.


OKO is the third one in AKL but also said to be the one with EOL in March 2023. Case in point it is probably in the lease agreement that NZ return it in a certain state so if indeed the lease is not renewed it doesn’t mean NZ won’t get it flyable now and use it until the lease expires despite being less than 12 months.

These aircraft aren’t even mid life given they have spent 2 years AOG, it will be interesting to see what sort of 2nd hand market for pax 77Ws there is in a few years as things recover. There is plenty of feed stock for the freighter conversion programme. I think with so many 77Ws worldwide that many will end up scrapped at a relatively young age. Many were only delivered between 2010-2015 so aren’t ready for replacement yet.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8735
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 10:31 pm

PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ couldn’t run an A320CEO AKL-PPT, not sure if a NEO would be any better with alternates? Crew I have read is an issue as it is and possibly 1 of the reasons the flight won’t return so your suggestion would seem very unlikely. I just don’t think there is enough in it for NZ to bother anymore? It would be AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX.
.

An Air NZ 320ceo did an AKL-PPT-AKL not long after the 789 started serving PPT to pick up some stranded pax. Don't think it was a full aircraft though.

Air Rarotonga wants to do RAR-PPT, presumably with their Saab 340B.
https://rnz.co.nz/international/pacific ... ok-islands

PA515


Right I can’t recall that. Do they need a wide body for freight more than anything? Or will they just rely on the NZ services from AKL for that?
 
NZ801
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 12:32 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
No link but I did read elsewhere that RAR-LAX won’t return. With PPT to be used to link RAR-US, no idea who by, would TN fly a weekly 789 for freight or how about a weekly HA HNL-RAR?

While it will be sad I can’t say I am surprised if this is the case.


The least commercial risk would probably be an NZ AKL-RAR-PPT-AKL and AKL-PPT-RAR-AKL 32Q connecting with the UA SFO-PPT-SFO, but I don't know the crew time limits for AKL-AKL flights. And there would need to be enough connection time to avoid missed connections due to delays. Otherwise the return of AKL-PPT-RAR-LAX.

PA515


NZ couldn’t run an A320CEO AKL-PPT, not sure if a NEO would be any better with alternates? Crew I have read is an issue as it is and possibly 1 of the reasons the flight won’t return so your suggestion would seem very unlikely. I just don’t think there is enough in it for NZ to bother anymore? It would be AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX.

HA serve PPG\PPT, I wonder if a weekly RAR service makes any sense?


Would Air Calin stop their PPT service at RAR?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8735
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 4:54 am

NZ801 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
PA515 wrote:

The least commercial risk would probably be an NZ AKL-RAR-PPT-AKL and AKL-PPT-RAR-AKL 32Q connecting with the UA SFO-PPT-SFO, but I don't know the crew time limits for AKL-AKL flights. And there would need to be enough connection time to avoid missed connections due to delays. Otherwise the return of AKL-PPT-RAR-LAX.

PA515


NZ couldn’t run an A320CEO AKL-PPT, not sure if a NEO would be any better with alternates? Crew I have read is an issue as it is and possibly 1 of the reasons the flight won’t return so your suggestion would seem very unlikely. I just don’t think there is enough in it for NZ to bother anymore? It would be AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX.

HA serve PPG\PPT, I wonder if a weekly RAR service makes any sense?


Would Air Calin stop their PPT service at RAR?


I guess anything is possible? Doesn’t seem the most likely option to me.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4594
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 6:01 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

And now back in service operating NZ1011/1010 AKL-CHC-AKL-LAX.


It's a real honour for CHC to get the first revenue service of ZKOKN since the grounding. Although only carrying freight it's been a long time out of action. I wonder which 77W will be next to return to service they certainly have a fair bit of life left in them.


OKO is the third one in AKL but also said to be the one with EOL in March 2023. Case in point it is probably in the lease agreement that NZ return it in a certain state so if indeed the lease is not renewed it doesn’t mean NZ won’t get it flyable now and use it until the lease expires despite being less than 12 months.

These aircraft aren’t even mid life given they have spent 2 years AOG, it will be interesting to see what sort of 2nd hand market for pax 77Ws there is in a few years as things recover. There is plenty of feed stock for the freighter conversion programme. I think with so many 77Ws worldwide that many will end up scrapped at a relatively young age. Many were only delivered between 2010-2015 so aren’t ready for replacement yet.


Also could be that the lessor has offered NZ a appealing open term lease on OKO past March 2023.

I’m sure most leasing firms will be offering appealing lease rates, on aircraft that have finished there lease terms. Better to get some income, than it probably ending up as an Coke can.
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 6:31 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

It's a real honour for CHC to get the first revenue service of ZKOKN since the grounding. Although only carrying freight it's been a long time out of action. I wonder which 77W will be next to return to service they certainly have a fair bit of life left in them.


OKO is the third one in AKL but also said to be the one with EOL in March 2023. Case in point it is probably in the lease agreement that NZ return it in a certain state so if indeed the lease is not renewed it doesn’t mean NZ won’t get it flyable now and use it until the lease expires despite being less than 12 months.

These aircraft aren’t even mid life given they have spent 2 years AOG, it will be interesting to see what sort of 2nd hand market for pax 77Ws there is in a few years as things recover. There is plenty of feed stock for the freighter conversion programme. I think with so many 77Ws worldwide that many will end up scrapped at a relatively young age. Many were only delivered between 2010-2015 so aren’t ready for replacement yet.


Also could be that the lessor has offered NZ a appealing open term lease on OKO past March 2023.

I’m sure most leasing firms will be offering appealing lease rates, on aircraft that have finished there lease terms. Better to get some income, than it probably ending up as an Coke can.


Would it be, like, month to month, or something more like 6-month blocks or yearly? Would NZ buy it outright?
 
PA515
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 7:27 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ couldn’t run an A320CEO AKL-PPT, not sure if a NEO would be any better with alternates? Crew I have read is an issue as it is and possibly 1 of the reasons the flight won’t return so your suggestion would seem very unlikely. I just don’t think there is enough in it for NZ to bother anymore? It would be AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX.
.

An Air NZ 320ceo did an AKL-PPT-AKL not long after the 789 started serving PPT to pick up some stranded pax. Don't think it was a full aircraft though.

Air Rarotonga wants to do RAR-PPT, presumably with their Saab 340B.
https://rnz.co.nz/international/pacific ... ok-islands

PA515


Right I can’t recall that. Do they need a wide body for freight more than anything? Or will they just rely on the NZ services from AKL for that?


ZK-OJF as NZ1980 AKL-PPT 02 Nov 2016 on a youtube video by Bruno Levionnois. Couldn't find it doing a search, but it was in his playlist of about 370 PPT videos.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qINooJD2Ilo ... &index+333

Freight AKL-PPT has always been significant. Even in the sixties Pan Am was carrying plenty of chilled meat for the hotels up there.

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8735
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 7:43 am

PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
PA515 wrote:
.

An Air NZ 320ceo did an AKL-PPT-AKL not long after the 789 started serving PPT to pick up some stranded pax. Don't think it was a full aircraft though.

Air Rarotonga wants to do RAR-PPT, presumably with their Saab 340B.
https://rnz.co.nz/international/pacific ... ok-islands

PA515


Right I can’t recall that. Do they need a wide body for freight more than anything? Or will they just rely on the NZ services from AKL for that?


ZK-OJF as NZ1980 AKL-PPT 02 Nov 2016 on a youtube video by Bruno Levionnois. Couldn't find it doing a search, but it was in his playlist of about 370 PPT videos.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qINooJD2Ilo ... &index+333

Freight AKL-PPT has always been significant. Even in the sixties Pan Am was carrying plenty of chilled meat for the hotels up there.

PA515


That’s a good find.

I always wondered if the A320 could do PPT weather NZ would have sent them there with an increase in frequency? 4-5 weekly, was 3 789/772 pre covid, still leave a weekly 789 for additional freight uplift. Although I wonder with no flights from Australia if there is a bit of demand from there via AKL including up front in J, W class?
 
zkncj
Posts: 4594
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 8:04 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Right I can’t recall that. Do they need a wide body for freight more than anything? Or will they just rely on the NZ services from AKL for that?


ZK-OJF as NZ1980 AKL-PPT 02 Nov 2016 on a youtube video by Bruno Levionnois. Couldn't find it doing a search, but it was in his playlist of about 370 PPT videos.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qINooJD2Ilo ... &index+333

Freight AKL-PPT has always been significant. Even in the sixties Pan Am was carrying plenty of chilled meat for the hotels up there.

PA515


That’s a good find.

I always wondered if the A320 could do PPT weather NZ would have sent them there with an increase in frequency? 4-5 weekly, was 3 789/772 pre covid, still leave a weekly 789 for additional freight uplift. Although I wonder with no flights from Australia if there is a bit of demand from there via AKL including up front in J, W class?


The A321N has an published max range of 7400km, AKL-PPT is only 4094km on ETOPS 120 route approxly 1000km more than RAR.


http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-PPT%0D ... =kph&E=120
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8735
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 8:25 am

OKN is doing a run to BNE as NZ1147, first overseas flight for it.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4704
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 9:47 pm

AA to resume AKL service but this time from DFW (Texas) rather than LAX.
“American Airlines is excited to launch nonstop winter seasonal service between Dallas-Fort Worth (DFW) and Auckland, New Zealand (AKL), beginning Oct. 29. Originally announced in 2019, the route was not launched due to the coronavirus pandemic. American last served AKL in 2020 with service from Los Angeles. Providing service to DFW allows us to connect more customers to New Zealand with a more convenient schedule. The DFW-AKL flight will operate daily with a Boeing 787-9 aircraft.”
 
Kiwiandrew
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 11:48 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
AA to resume AKL service but this time from DFW (Texas) rather than LAX.


Interesting. I think that makes more sense since that's their strongest hub. A nice surprise that they are going ahead as they have been short of long haul capacity due to 787 delivery delays.

I noticed there was no mention of the proposed LAX-CHC service, so I guess that will go on the back burner for a while .
 
Kiwiandrew
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Fri May 27, 2022 12:38 am

Re: DFW-AKL, I see it's seasonal only at this point (Oct 22 - Mar 23) which makes sense as they will have some spare capacity during the northern winter timetable

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... th-flights
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 2050
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2022

Fri May 27, 2022 1:58 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
AA to resume AKL service but this time from DFW (Texas) rather than LAX.

I noticed there was no mention of the proposed LAX-CHC service, so I guess that will go on the back burner for a while .

I still harbour hopes that NZ will return to CHC-LAX one day - wouldn't be unhappy if they forestall AA. Maybe 3x weekly with another 4x weekly on a second AKL-LAX rotation. But obviously not before the full North American network is restored and frequencies back to "normal".
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