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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 17, 2022 2:49 pm

AnadoluJet's charters to Moscow from Antalya and Bodrum were transferred from VKO to DME yesterday. Maybe it is a way of separating a more premium traffic at VKO but AJ's flights from ESB are still there.
 
HB-IWC
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 17, 2022 3:59 pm

TK787 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
Boston 2 started today with the A333. Callsign Turkish 1WG.

Yep, now there is a sizable morning bank IST to USA with LAX, SFO, ORD, JFK, BOS, IAD


IAH will join tomorrow morning with 3 weekly morning flights. Then there is of course MIA with daily morning flights, just not in the same bank as all of the others.
 
MoonC
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 17, 2022 4:20 pm

Asiaflyer wrote:
According to Reuters, TK has decided to buy six A350 from Airbus. Must be the SU frames mentioned earlier in this and other threads.

May 17 (Reuters) - TURK HAVA YOLLARI AO THYAO.IS:: *DECIDES TO PURCHASE SIX A350-900 TYPE PASSENGER AIRCRAFT FROM AIRBUS TO BE DELIVERED IN 2022 AND 2023


Do you have a link? Can't find.
 
Asiaflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 17, 2022 4:22 pm

MoonC wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
According to Reuters, TK has decided to buy six A350 from Airbus. Must be the SU frames mentioned earlier in this and other threads.

May 17 (Reuters) - TURK HAVA YOLLARI AO THYAO.IS:: *DECIDES TO PURCHASE SIX A350-900 TYPE PASSENGER AIRCRAFT FROM AIRBUS TO BE DELIVERED IN 2022 AND 2023


Do you have a link? Can't find.

Nothing yet on internet. Sorry but it was only out on Reuters subscription news today.
 
MoonC
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 17, 2022 4:25 pm

Asiaflyer wrote:
MoonC wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
According to Reuters, TK has decided to buy six A350 from Airbus. Must be the SU frames mentioned earlier in this and other threads.

May 17 (Reuters) - TURK HAVA YOLLARI AO THYAO.IS:: *DECIDES TO PURCHASE SIX A350-900 TYPE PASSENGER AIRCRAFT FROM AIRBUS TO BE DELIVERED IN 2022 AND 2023


Do you have a link? Can't find.

Nothing yet on internet. Sorry but it was only out on Reuters subscription news today.


Thanks. Found the original source of info on the Turkish Public Disclosure Platform.

https://www.kap.org.tr/Bildirim/1030890
 
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mercure1
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Wed May 18, 2022 2:18 am

I saw plans were revealed to turn the former Ataturk airport into large green space for Istanbul. 5 million square meters of airport space will be transformed 132,000 trees.
The former airport land will feature public gardens, recreational facilities and public event spaces.

Quite positive development and nice contribution for sustainability efforts.

Image
https://static.euronews.com/articles/st ... 706850.jpg
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Wed May 18, 2022 7:22 pm

HB-IWC wrote:
I would think that if TK really wanted to start DTW in July, there is enough widebody capacity that can be shifted around to make that happen. In particular, there is quite some 787 capacity currently deployed on mid-range routes that could be operated with the longhaul equipped A333s that are currently anyway operating as far away as Boston, Newark, Johannesburg and Bangkok. TK still has some parked A332 capacity available that could be reactivated as well.


Currently only one of the parked 332s (possibly TC-JNE) can be made available for ER flights.
 
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TKflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Wed May 18, 2022 10:25 pm

In the last few days there have been some movements of the new A321 in XFW destined for PEGASUS

TC-RBK msn 10679 Airbus A321-251NX, "Güneş ", ex D-AZWR, dd 18/05/2022
TC-RBM msn 10739 Airbus A321-251NX, "Zeynep Ela", ex D-AZXN, ff 17/05/2022
TC-RBR msn 11029 Airbus A321-251NX, "Elif Mina", ex D-AVWY, Taxi Check & RTO at XFW 17/05/2022
 
HB-IWC
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Wed May 18, 2022 11:08 pm

mafaky wrote:
HB-IWC wrote:
I would think that if TK really wanted to start DTW in July, there is enough widebody capacity that can be shifted around to make that happen. In particular, there is quite some 787 capacity currently deployed on mid-range routes that could be operated with the longhaul equipped A333s that are currently anyway operating as far away as Boston, Newark, Johannesburg and Bangkok. TK still has some parked A332 capacity available that could be reactivated as well.


Currently only one of the parked 332s (possibly TC-JNE) can be made available for ER flights.


There is still plenty of A333 capacity in the TC-JN* and TC-LN* series that is deployed on mid-range flights that can be used on longer flights and offset by parked A332 capacity in the ex-TAM TC-JI* series if there is an urgent need. It should not be a problem to free up a properly longhaul equipped aircraft through some shifting of capacity if TK still wanted to start Detroit in the course of the summer.
 
BuildingMyBento
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Wed May 18, 2022 11:57 pm

mercure1 wrote:
I saw plans were revealed to turn the former Ataturk airport into large green space for Istanbul. 5 million square meters of airport space will be transformed 132,000 trees.
The former airport land will feature public gardens, recreational facilities and public event spaces.

Quite positive development and nice contribution for sustainability efforts.

Image
https://static.euronews.com/articles/st ... 706850.jpg


Quito's xUIO was converted into a park ... although xIST's concept looks greener.
 
TK773ER
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Thu May 19, 2022 3:02 am

If true the six SU frames for TK are most likely going to be MSN 457 463 471 493 554 558 the last two are in FAL in TLS https://www.abcdlist.nl/a350f/a350f.html .

I wonder if TK will keep SU business class seating I actually think it's a better product than TK's own it offers more privacy with the sliding door see below.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/turkish ... -aeroflot/
 
HB-IWC
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Thu May 19, 2022 4:37 am

TK773ER wrote:
If true the six SU frames for TK are most likely going to be MSN 457 463 471 493 554 558 the last two are in FAL in TLS https://www.abcdlist.nl/a350f/a350f.html .

I wonder if TK will keep SU business class seating I actually think it's a better product than TK's own it offers more privacy with the sliding door see below.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/turkish ... -aeroflot/


I would think that reconfiguring the 4 aircraft that are fully finished may be both time consuming and prohibitively expensive. This more than just changing the seats. The exact placement and organization of the galleys and the entire IFE would also have to be changed. I don't believe TK will go there. At most, they may get rid of the premium economy, and even that may just be left as is. TK has a 32C/297Y configuration, while SU would be 28C/24Y+/264Y. That subfleet of 6 would be less that optimal but not disastrous from an operational perspective.
 
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TKflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Thu May 19, 2022 11:17 am

TK773ER wrote:
If true the six SU frames for TK are most likely going to be MSN 457 463 471 493 554 558 the last two are in FAL in TLS https://www.abcdlist.nl/a350f/a350f.html .

I wonder if TK will keep SU business class seating I actually think it's a better product than TK's own it offers more privacy with the sliding door see below.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/turkish ... -aeroflot/


TKflyer wrote:
TKflyer wrote:
According to Turkish media and rumours, TURKISH AIRLINES will shortly take delivery of 4 AIRBUS A350-941 produced for Aeroflot


TK787 wrote:
TK773ER wrote:
Does anyone know how many more Max8's TK might be getting ?


So, TK getting more Max8 afterall :)
I'm sure you are all aware that LH also interested in SU 350s.
Any info how many frames of A & B, SU have on order? Thank you.


on the topic SU A350:
AEROFLOT has ordered 22 Airbus A30-941s. 7 were already delivered before the embargo

The following MSN are currently available:
msn 457 ff 21.10.2021, F-WZNJ, VP-BXS
msn 493 ff 04.04.2022, F-WZGY, VP-BYB
msn 463 ff 15.11.2021, F-WZFP, VP-BYE
msn 471 ff 15.02.2022, F-WZGB, VP-BYH
msn 554 on Order F-WZFZ, VP-BYG
msn 558 on Order F-WZFN, VP-BYX
msn 498 on Order
msn 508 on Order

By which 4 TURKISH AIRLINES and by how many and especially which Lufthansa are interested and finally who will be awarded the contract is still open. In addition to the two interested parties, other airlines or leasing companies could also be considered.

only to supplement the ,
msn 448, ff 23.04.2021, F-WZHI, VP-BXS, EC-NOI World2Fly
was delivered ex works via ALC to World2fly.
Moreover, the 2 planned A350 msn 242 & 253 were not built



exactly as already described :wave:
 
debonair
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Thu May 19, 2022 4:55 pm

TKflyer wrote:
AirAnka's first A330 has received the Reg. TC-NYP is an Airbus A330-243.

The second should be an Airbus A330-343, whose reg. is not yet known.
https://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-haberleri/airankaya-ait-ucagin-tescili-belli-oldu.html


Sorry if discussed before, but more information about the previous owners or msn?! THX
 
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TKflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Thu May 19, 2022 7:30 pm

unfortunately no, so far there was/are no further information
 
TK773ER
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 2:36 am

Thanks TKflyer and HB-IWC

Do we know the MTOW on these SU frames ? Airbus has increased the brochure range by 400km due to this MTOW increase https://www.airbus.com/sites/g/files/jl ... y-2022.pdf , With that said is it possible for TK to opt for own future metal orders with the MTOW increased to 283T ? According to link above the range for A359-900 is 8300nm ( 15,400kms ) and the A350-1000 has a range of 8700nm ( 16,100kms ) could this be IST-MEL IST-SYD routing ?

An airline like TK for example, could this version make non-stop flights from IST to Australia profitable or could TK change/swap orders to few A351 well within range.



The great circle mapper has IST-SYD @ 14,967km range and IST-MEL @ 14,634km range , Now I know factoring winds and payload come into play but is this possible for year round service for TK

IST-SYD http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=YSSY-IST&MS=wls&DU=km
IST-MEL http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=YMML-IST&MS=wls&DU=km
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 10:33 am

TK773ER wrote:
With that said is it possible for TK to opt for own future metal orders with the MTOW increased to 283T ? According to link above the range for A359-900 is 8300nm ( 15,400kms ) and the A350-1000 has a range of 8700nm ( 16,100kms ) could this be IST-MEL IST-SYD routing ?


I am sure many will remember that we have been talking about this for at least 15+ years :)
-If I am not mistaken, TK's own 359s MTOW is 280,000kg.
-IST-SYD nonstop around 15,000km is close to IST-JFK-IST !!!!, ouch. Who would like to fly 18+ hours nonstop.
-We then, start talking about "fuel ferrying", maybe 2 full crews on board, serving 3 full meal services.
-Is there a Business Class/Cargo market to make this feasible? If not, in this cut throat market, how could TK make it work with low prices, fuel costs?
-How could TK find a market with 2 class planes in this market? Who wants to fly 18 hours nonstop in a 32" Y seat? TK is not going to have special less dense planes specifically for this route, it doesn't make sense.
-Could TK survive not serving Daily? If Daily, how many frames tied up to this one route?
-If TK really wanted, it could have served this route with other planes, taking a hit on payload. But never did, not even Perth. This should tell you something.
It is not that TK doesn't have the right equipment. It is too thin, too far, too much competition.
IMHO, TK's best option, to have a small Asian hub and do it as a one-stop.
 
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TKflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 11:45 am

TKflyer wrote:
TKflyer wrote:
According to Turkish media and rumours, TURKISH AIRLINES will shortly take delivery of 4 AIRBUS A350-941 produced for Aeroflot


TK787 wrote:
TK773ER wrote:
Does anyone know how many more Max8's TK might be getting ?


So, TK getting more Max8 afterall :)
I'm sure you are all aware that LH also interested in SU 350s.
Any info how many frames of A & B, SU have on order? Thank you.


on the topic SU A350:
AEROFLOT has ordered 22 Airbus A30-941s. 7 were already delivered before the embargo

The following MSN are currently available:
msn 457 ff 21.10.2021, F-WZNJ, VP-BXS
msn 493 ff 04.04.2022, F-WZGY, VP-BYB
msn 463 ff 15.11.2021, F-WZFP, VP-BYE
msn 471 ff 15.02.2022, F-WZGB, VP-BYH
msn 554 on Order F-WZFZ, VP-BYG
msn 558 on Order F-WZFN, VP-BYX
msn 498 on Order
msn 508 on Order

By which 4 TURKISH AIRLINES and by how many and especially which Lufthansa are interested and finally who will be awarded the contract is still open. In addition to the two interested parties, other airlines or leasing companies could also be considered.

only to supplement the ,
msn 448, ff 23.04.2021, F-WZHI, VP-BXS, EC-NOI World2Fly
was delivered ex works via ALC to World2fly.
Moreover, the 2 planned A350 msn 242 & 253 were not built


Btw, the First ex SU A350 msn 457 ex F-WZNJ (ntu VP–BXS Aeroflot) will get the Reg. TC–LGI
See the fist pic, with standard TURKISH AIRLINES titles, basic Aeroflot cs
https://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-haberleri/thynin-yeni-ucagi-boyle-goruntulendi.html
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 12:55 pm

Well, that is pretty ugly.
I guess once it is in Turkey, paint job is not that hard.
But seeing this photo, looks like things are moving very fast.
Thanks for sharing.
 
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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 2:07 pm

What will be done to W class in those A359s?
 
HB-IWC
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 3:39 pm

TK787 wrote:
Well, that is pretty ugly.
I guess once it is in Turkey, paint job is not that hard.
But seeing this photo, looks like things are moving very fast.
Thanks for sharing.


I'm pretty sure they will put it in the full TK livery. This could all move very fast, at least for the 3 aircraft that have basically been finished, delivery could come sooner than expected.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 3:52 pm

Someone on Facebook group suggests that these SU birds' MTOW is 268T and they do not have fuel dumping or special avionics options like TK's own.
Anyone can confirm??
About the W Class, I imagine TK is not going to introduce a new type of fare class for a handful of planes.
They could sell for $200 on ER flights like they used to on Comfort Class, or sell it as Y and upgrade people that have higher loyalty levels. I imagine they will keep it as is and they still treat them as Y class seats. Maybe get rid of it during C/D check in a few years.
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 9:38 pm

Greetings from DXB.

After a 28 months pandemic break, I'm happy to be back in Dubai. As FZ now flies directly between ESB and DXB with a great J product where you can have a single row seating on a B738max, I had a hard time choosing EK via IST for the sake of trying A380. Though I probably will not do it again, I'm glade that I chose this routing which was full of surprises and firsts for me.

The first surprise was the TK A359 connection between ESB to IST. I must admit that this is a great plane and quiet in comparison to its older peers.

Image

Just before landing, I had a chance to say goodbye to Atatürk Airport before it becomes Millet Bahcesi (what a joke).

Image

I also liked very much the 3rd connection point of the seat belt in TK A359 (TK787 mentioned about it earlier I suppose).

Image

After check in at IST, I tried E-Pass for the first time which is only available to Turkish Citizens. It was cool and finishes in 15 seconds with no queue what so ever. I advice all to use it. But keep in mind that you better pay exit fee before hand at a bank. As I had a J ticket on EK, I've been informed that I can use IGA Lounge. But this is a terrible lounge in comparison to TK Lounge at IST or old EK Lounge at Atatürk Airport with uneducated staff and less than mediocre food. EK needs to restart its own lounge at IST as before ASAP.

Just before boarding, a usual thunder storm started at IGA thanks to its location near Black Sea. However on board A380, it was a decent take off which could have been a very bumpy ride on a different type. So both its quietness and stable flight in bad weather makes this plane a very comfortable one in comparison to B777 or similar other twins. I agree that it is difficult to fill this plane type all the time, but TK may still consider A380 for some signature routes like JFK, LAX, etc.

Image

I also liked the J seating of EK A380. It has more character and corporate signature, in comparison to TK A359 J seats. Bar at the aft of plane was also nice. However toilets were cramped in J section, which was the only down side.

Image
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 11:40 pm

Thanks for the trip report.
Congratulations on the your first big trip after a long hiatus.
I think we missed the boat about the 380, not going to happen.
Next wide body for TK will more than likely be a mix of 77X and 350-1000
 
openskies88
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:42 am

Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 12:30 am

TK787 wrote:
It is not that TK doesn't have the right equipment. It is too thin, too far, too much competition.
IMHO, TK's best option, to have a small Asian hub and do it as a one-stop.


I agree. There is no good business case for non-stop IST-SYD/MEL. The only real benefit of a non-stop flight is for O&D traffic. But speaking from anecdotal experience Turks in Australia generally want to pay the cheapest airfare which will always involve one stop whether they fly via Asia or the Middle East.

Outside of O&D traffic, the appeal for Australians travelling onward to Europe simply isn't there as they already have dozens of options for this routing, and it will still involve one stop to get there if they were to fly on TK.
 
Blerg
Posts: 5465
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 9:19 am

TK105 wrote:
Greetings from DXB.

After a 28 months pandemic break, I'm happy to be back in Dubai. As FZ now flies directly between ESB and DXB with a great J product where you can have a single row seating on a B738max, I had a hard time choosing EK via IST for the sake of trying A380. Though I probably will not do it again, I'm glade that I chose this routing which was full of surprises and firsts for me.

The first surprise was the TK A359 connection between ESB to IST. I must admit that this is a great plane and quiet in comparison to its older peers.

Image

Just before landing, I had a chance to say goodbye to Atatürk Airport before it becomes Millet Bahcesi (what a joke).

Image

I also liked very much the 3rd connection point of the seat belt in TK A359 (TK787 mentioned about it earlier I suppose).

Image

After check in at IST, I tried E-Pass for the first time which is only available to Turkish Citizens. It was cool and finishes in 15 seconds with no queue what so ever. I advice all to use it. But keep in mind that you better pay exit fee before hand at a bank. As I had a J ticket on EK, I've been informed that I can use IGA Lounge. But this is a terrible lounge in comparison to TK Lounge at IST or old EK Lounge at Atatürk Airport with uneducated staff and less than mediocre food. EK needs to restart its own lounge at IST as before ASAP.

Just before boarding, a usual thunder storm started at IGA thanks to its location near Black Sea. However on board A380, it was a decent take off which could have been a very bumpy ride on a different type. So both its quietness and stable flight in bad weather makes this plane a very comfortable one in comparison to B777 or similar other twins. I agree that it is difficult to fill this plane type all the time, but TK may still consider A380 for some signature routes like JFK, LAX, etc.

Image

I also liked the J seating of EK A380. It has more character and corporate signature, in comparison to TK A359 J seats. Bar at the aft of plane was also nice. However toilets were cramped in J section, which was the only down side.

Image


Thank you for the pictures. How was the load on the EK A380?
 
TK773ER
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 10:30 am

First of the S7 Max8 frames on it's way to IST https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lag
 
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TKflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Sat May 21, 2022 10:00 pm

Thanks TK7773ER
looks like the TC-LAG will be painted in Istanbul (IST)
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 5:41 am

Blerg wrote:
Thank you for the pictures. How was the load on the EK A380?

On TK domestic flight, it was full on all classes.

For EK A380: First was almost empty. Business was completely full. I did not go downstairs and see Economy, but based on the crowd at gate, I can say that Economy had also high loads.
 
emre787
Posts: 258
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 7:27 am

openskies88 wrote:
TK787 wrote:
It is not that TK doesn't have the right equipment. It is too thin, too far, too much competition.
IMHO, TK's best option, to have a small Asian hub and do it as a one-stop.


I agree. There is no good business case for non-stop IST-SYD/MEL. The only real benefit of a non-stop flight is for O&D traffic. But speaking from anecdotal experience Turks in Australia generally want to pay the cheapest airfare which will always involve one stop whether they fly via Asia or the Middle East.

Outside of O&D traffic, the appeal for Australians travelling onward to Europe simply isn't there as they already have dozens of options for this routing, and it will still involve one stop to get there if they were to fly on TK.


Well yes, there are already many one stop options for Australia - Europe travel. But there are also so many destinations which aren't served by either of the ME3 etc where imo TK could successfully make a business case out of by offering convenient connections to those cities.

Especially the Balkans, where TK serves a lot of destinations, has demand to Australia. For example, QRs top destinations from Belgrade include Sydney and Melbourne https://www.exyuaviation.com/p/qatar-ai ... mance.html So at least those two cities could sustain TK flights
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 7:46 am

emre787 wrote:
openskies88 wrote:
TK787 wrote:
It is not that TK doesn't have the right equipment. It is too thin, too far, too much competition.
IMHO, TK's best option, to have a small Asian hub and do it as a one-stop.


I agree. There is no good business case for non-stop IST-SYD/MEL. The only real benefit of a non-stop flight is for O&D traffic. But speaking from anecdotal experience Turks in Australia generally want to pay the cheapest airfare which will always involve one stop whether they fly via Asia or the Middle East.

Outside of O&D traffic, the appeal for Australians travelling onward to Europe simply isn't there as they already have dozens of options for this routing, and it will still involve one stop to get there if they were to fly on TK.


Well yes, there are already many one stop options for Australia - Europe travel. But there are also so many destinations which aren't served by either of the ME3 etc where imo TK could successfully make a business case out of by offering convenient connections to those cities.

Especially the Balkans, where TK serves a lot of destinations, has demand to Australia. For example, QRs top destinations from Belgrade include Sydney and Melbourne https://www.exyuaviation.com/p/qatar-ai ... mance.html So at least those two cities could sustain TK flights


Balkans might not be the best example as EK has this area covered via FZ. QR has a relatively good coverage since the region is within the reach of their A320.
I think TK's focus should be on secondary European destinations that are out of reach for FZ and QR's narrowbody fleet.
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 1:12 pm

I'm back to IST from DXB and writing you while waiting my ESB connection.

Wooww. What an experience A380 is. On the way to DXB I kept my noise canceling Bose earphones all the time as if I'm on a B777. This time on the way back I did not do that: What a difference! I can explain you the sound difference is like: B777 is a Formula-1 car and A380 is a Tesla. You do not hear when the engines are turned on, or during take off even you feel like there is no engine working. Only thing you hear is the rolling of the tires on the pavement during take off. When the plane is at altitude and rpm of engines increase, you start hearing some low frequency engine noise at a low level, certainly not a disturbing one but rather a sound which gives you confidence. This is my experience on the upper floor right behind the wings...

I like A380. Certainly the best experience among contemporary airliners.
 
dozerman
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 4:27 pm

TK773ER wrote:
First of the S7 Max8 frames on it's way to IST https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lag


Does anyone know why they make a stop at KEF? The Max8 should be able to fly YYR-IST non-stop, especially since it's eastbound with no passengers or cargo.
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:25 am

I noticed that Anadoloujet has scheduled the A321 on some flights from ESB to BEG. Are these the ex-TK birds? Anyone know what their configuration will be and if they will keep their old livery?
 
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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:43 am

Looks like TC-JRI is the first one - just keeping its belonging to the TK fleet.
 
TK773ER
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:57 am

Blerg wrote:
emre787 wrote:
openskies88 wrote:

I agree. There is no good business case for non-stop IST-SYD/MEL. The only real benefit of a non-stop flight is for O&D traffic. But speaking from anecdotal experience Turks in Australia generally want to pay the cheapest airfare which will always involve one stop whether they fly via Asia or the Middle East.

Outside of O&D traffic, the appeal for Australians travelling onward to Europe simply isn't there as they already have dozens of options for this routing, and it will still involve one stop to get there if they were to fly on TK.


Well yes, there are already many one stop options for Australia - Europe travel. But there are also so many destinations which aren't served by either of the ME3 etc where imo TK could successfully make a business case out of by offering convenient connections to those cities.

Especially the Balkans, where TK serves a lot of destinations, has demand to Australia. For example, QRs top destinations from Belgrade include Sydney and Melbourne https://www.exyuaviation.com/p/qatar-ai ... mance.html So at least those two cities could sustain TK flights


Balkans might not be the best example as EK has this area covered via FZ. QR has a relatively good coverage since the region is within the reach of their A320.
I think TK's focus should be on secondary European destinations that are out of reach for FZ and QR's narrowbody fleet.


Interesting interview today with TK Chairman regarding flying to Australia https://airwaysmag.com/turkish-airlines-chairman/

Although highly unlikely at the moment but Chairman states depending on future new generation ultra long aircraft, I agree with Emre787 with TK connecting to secondary airports has an advantage over the M3. Both Melbourne and Sydney are very multicultural cities where TK's network can feed those cities and beyond whether one stop or two, I know it has been mentioned above regarding the 17 or 18 hour flight time from Mel/Syd and who wants that ? Well Qantas will offer 20+ hour flights to New York and London from SYD in a few years time, Australians are interested in ultra long flights as there is a market here who knows maybe one day we may see TK metal down here.
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 8:27 am

TK773ER wrote:
Blerg wrote:
emre787 wrote:

Well yes, there are already many one stop options for Australia - Europe travel. But there are also so many destinations which aren't served by either of the ME3 etc where imo TK could successfully make a business case out of by offering convenient connections to those cities.

Especially the Balkans, where TK serves a lot of destinations, has demand to Australia. For example, QRs top destinations from Belgrade include Sydney and Melbourne https://www.exyuaviation.com/p/qatar-ai ... mance.html So at least those two cities could sustain TK flights


Balkans might not be the best example as EK has this area covered via FZ. QR has a relatively good coverage since the region is within the reach of their A320.
I think TK's focus should be on secondary European destinations that are out of reach for FZ and QR's narrowbody fleet.


Interesting interview today with TK Chairman regarding flying to Australia https://airwaysmag.com/turkish-airlines-chairman/

Although highly unlikely at the moment but Chairman states depending on future new generation ultra long aircraft, I agree with Emre787 with TK connecting to secondary airports has an advantage over the M3. Both Melbourne and Sydney are very multicultural cities where TK's network can feed those cities and beyond whether one stop or two, I know it has been mentioned above regarding the 17 or 18 hour flight time from Mel/Syd and who wants that ? Well Qantas will offer 20+ hour flights to New York and London from SYD in a few years time, Australians are interested in ultra long flights as there is a market here who knows maybe one day we may see TK metal down here.


Personally I am certain these flights will happen, it just depends on what aircraft they will use. Australia-Europe is a huge market and I am sure TK is not willing to simply give it up so that their competition will profit.

I wonder if TK's entry into the Australian market might mean the end for Etihad.
 
Tolmachevo
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 11:15 am

Hi, I am wondering about the positioning of TK aircraft for international flights from BJV. I assumed that it would be a W rotation, so IST-BJV-BER-BJV-IST, but I cannot seem to see anything in the timetable that leads to that conclusion.

I am specifically looking at TK4013 departing BJV at 15:05 on May 26, scheduled as an A320. Does someone with more TK insight have an idea where this aircraft is coming from before this flight?

Thanks, and I have really enjoyed these Turkey threads over the years, thanks for that too!
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 11:58 am

dozerman wrote:
TK773ER wrote:
First of the S7 Max8 frames on it's way to IST https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lag


Does anyone know why they make a stop at KEF? The Max8 should be able to fly YYR-IST non-stop, especially since it's eastbound with no passengers or cargo.

I have an idea, is it because of fuel ferrying? I mean even if the Max8 can do it nonstop, does it make sense to fly non stop since there are no pax/cargo. It might be cheaper to take less fuel onboard and a stop over/refill, than to fill it up and carry that fuel all the way?? Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in.
 
emre787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 12:03 pm

TK787 wrote:
dozerman wrote:
TK773ER wrote:
First of the S7 Max8 frames on it's way to IST https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lag


Does anyone know why they make a stop at KEF? The Max8 should be able to fly YYR-IST non-stop, especially since it's eastbound with no passengers or cargo.

I have an idea, is it because of fuel ferrying? I mean even if the Max8 can do it nonstop, does it make sense to fly non stop since there are no pax/cargo. It might be cheaper to take less fuel onboard and a stop over/refill, than to fill it up and carry that fuel all the way?? Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in.


Well, this is also only a speculation, but could they possibly be carrying cargo? To be more specific, cargo in the form of aircraft parts/maintenance from Boeing for Turkish Technic. This would actually explain the stop
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 12:23 pm

TK773ER wrote:
it has been mentioned above regarding the 17 or 18 hour flight time from Mel/Syd and who wants that ? Well Qantas will offer 20+ hour flights to New York and London from SYD in a few years time, Australians are interested in ultra long flights as there is a market here who knows maybe one day we may see TK metal down here.

Couple of things:
-Qantas will fly those routes with; 6F 52J 40W 140Y, total 238 pax. Almost 100 pax less than TK 2-class 350s.
-Qantas has a duty/incentive to offer these nonstops, since it is the flag carrier for Australian citizens (26M). To connect them to major cities, especially business folks. I do not think Istanbul-SYD/MEL nonstop has the same importance for TK. On top, pax might have to spend hours at IST and fly another 2-3 hours to major/secondary European destinations.
I am sure there is a market for Australian tourists choosing TK for lower prices, but how is that translate into profits for TK?
I still think that KUL, CGK, SIN one-stop will work better financially for TK, still using 2-class aircraft.

Maybe someone like "LAXintl" :) might have some data to shed a light into this.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 4:39 pm

In my experience, Europe-Australia fares are quite low (€500 quite common). That's is very little income for such a long journey.

There is a reason why all European airlines except BA have discontinued their Australia routes.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 8:37 pm

This Australia talk sure seems to come up every few years...

Australia has been looked at for many years. TK has opened a sales office and even got an amendment to the Indonesia air service agreements to allow beyond service to Australia.

However for now as Mr. Bolat eludes to the economics are not there, and existing Turkey-Australia demand can be served via agreements with SQ and TG.

One thing to remember is that Australia is heavily skewed towards leisure travel - tourist and VFR flow. Its a market that TK could certainly fill a plane in but it would be doing so at very low fares.

The last study I saw projected TK could generate 98,000 passengers on a MEL route and 151,000 to SYD, with virtually the entire plane connecting beyond to Turkey, with large European cities like London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam being the largest traffic contributors but with their poor pricing due to all the competition. Yes TK has to ton of smaller European markets, but these markets don't produce high fares either.

At the end of the day its also and issue of fleet utilization. It takes many hours and airframe commitment to service a distant market like Australia. The same equipment could be doing something else instead generating greater income. As the interview mentione markets like China, India, and the Americas present a greater opportunity for TK today.

One other issues is frequency. Last time I looked, TK was limited to 3x weekly frequencies to SYD and 2x weekly toa second point (MEL) per the bilateral. This would need to be updated as well.
 
calcal
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 10:18 pm

There are many more destinations TK could start flying to with much better chance of profitability instead of opening an Australia route. It just doesn’t make sense at least at the moment. Or they can increase frequencies to already proven markets.
 
TK773ER
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 5:49 am

Thank you TK787 and LAXintl

This Australia talk sure seems to come up every few years yes thanks to me born and bread here in MEL and having a Turkish background is the drive.

But all in all it makes sense what everyone on this thread is saying above,

Selamlar
 
leftyboarder
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 8:34 am

calcal wrote:
There are many more destinations TK could start flying to with much better chance of profitability instead of opening an Australia route. It just doesn’t make sense at least at the moment. Or they can increase frequencies to already proven markets.


Are there though? China and India are severely restricted and China hasn't even recovered post covid. Pretty much every destination in Africa is served, there is already good coverage in the US to all major markets and only a handful LatAm destinations remain unserved. I doubt there are a lot of new destinations ready for the picking. Increasing frequencies seems more viable, and that's what they've been doing lately rather than new long haul destinations.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 10:51 am

TK773ER wrote:
Thank you TK787 and LAXintl

This Australia talk sure seems to come up every few years yes thanks to me born and bread here in MEL and having a Turkish background is the drive.

But all in all it makes sense what everyone on this thread is saying above,

Selamlar


For years I wanted to see which would start earlier; JFK-SAW, JFK-ESB, JFK-AYT....??? Well EWR-IST came first :)
Hey, how about JFK-DLM, that would be awesome for me :)
Remember when we started these threads TK only had 340s, no AnadoluJet, handful of destinations in Africa, tiny Pegasus.. ?
We used to talk about if TK will order 747 or 380, every TK order was labeled a "political decision" either to please USA or EU, when will AF wash their planes, When will Northwest Airlines retire its DC-9 fleet??
One Turkish a.net pilot friend was flying the 737-400, now flying the 350-900, another one wasn't flying commercial; now flying the Cargo 747.
My first flight to the USA was on AF 747 many many years ago. I would have never thought that I would have 4 flights a day to choose from with TK to reach Istanbul from NY.
Times change and who knows maybe in my lifetime we will see a nonstop Australia flight.
 
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TKflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 4:46 pm

According to an interview by Ahmet Bolat (CEO TK) in Turkish media, the TURKISH AIRLINES fleet will grow to 400 (incl. ANADOLUJET) in the next 3-5 months. In addition to the well-known A350 and the 737-8 MAX (to be used by ANADOLUJET), TURKISH AIRLINES expects more A321neo.
Not really any major news. We are already well informed about all these changes in this forum. There are currently 318 aircraft in service with THY and 53 with AJA. The further deliveries of new aircraft should serve to expand and renew the fleet.
There was also no mention of rumors about the lease of 6 Ukrainian SkyUp Boeing 737–800.
The only thing worth mentioning is that the ANADOLUJET fleet wants/will be significantly rejuvenated and expand.
But it was also written about in this forum
 
emre787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 7:20 pm

TKflyer wrote:
TURKISH AIRLINES expects more A321neo.


It was mentioned that 20 neo deliveries will take place. Maybe TK readjusted their delivery schedule or they again got some white tails/slots destined to russian airlines. The A321neo fleet will then consist of more than 50 tails up from 33 right now, impressive. Can't wait to see the complete A321neo fleet of 88+ aircraft, definitely a real workhorse!

https://havahaber.com/thy-yonetim-kurul ... ip-olacak/
 
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TKflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 9:14 pm

emre787 wrote:
TKflyer wrote:
TURKISH AIRLINES expects more A321neo.


It was mentioned that 20 neo deliveries will take place. Maybe TK readjusted their delivery schedule or they again got some white tails/slots destined to russian airlines. The A321neo fleet will then consist of more than 50 tails up from 33 right now, impressive. Can't wait to see the complete A321neo fleet of 88+ aircraft, definitely a real workhorse!

https://havahaber.com/thy-yonetim-kurul ... ip-olacak/



It could be possible that TK will add 2 more white tails or slots for A321neo’s to the fleet based on this statement. Or just like Emre787 writes that the ordered A321neo has been reallocated. Because 18 A321neo were actually planned for 2022 and 15 for 2023.

In addition to the TC-LTJ (msn 10723), the TC-LTK (msn 10751) was delivered and the TC-LTL (msn 10878) and the TC-LTM (msn 10854) are in Hamburg (XFW) before delivery or before the first flight ready.
thus 14 of 18 A321neo that would still be delivered (according to the original planning).
Of course, the statement by Dr. Ahmet Bolat now has room to speculate, as announced, 20 A321neo are expected to be delivered.

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