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qf789
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Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 12:33 am

Qantas and Airbus will make an official announcement at 830am tomorrow that Project Sunrise will be going ahead. It is expected that Qantas is making a significant announcement about the future of its network which includes an announcement of the board giving the green light to order A350-1000ULR's.

Currently Airbus is positioning A350-1000 TLS-PER, presumably its going to PER as it will miss the curfew at SYD today. It is believed that the aircraft is wearing Qantas logos and is wearing the slogan "our Spirit flies further". Link to flight

https://www.flightradar24.com/26.12,50.99/8#

The first flights are expected to take off in mid 2025, with SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK to be the first flights to occur

https://www.executivetraveller.com/qant ... nrise-a350

Also as part of the announcement it is also expected that Qantas will firm order for its narrowbody fleet which includes A220 and A32XLRS. It is expected that 12 A350-1000's, 20 A220 and 20 A321XLR's to be order tomorrow along with 106 options.

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/qan ... r-history/
 
smi0006
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 12:43 am

Very exciting times! QF could do with some good PR at this point.

3yrs is not long, can’t wait to see these birds in JFK and LHR - count me in as a loyal PS flyer, hate the stop overs!

Curious to also see how many options they have as well as firm orders. I think longer term the 350 along with route diversification will replace the 380s at QF.

SYD/MEL- JFK/LHR
But longer term;
SYD-ORD,CDG,LAX,DFW,SIN-LHR
MEL-DFW,
PER-LHR

I can’t see VS or BA - or any European carrier investing in such a fleet, Asian and Middle Eastern airlines can’t legally fly non-stop, it is certainly going to be a shift back in favour of QF to capture market that has been lost to Europe in particular over the last 3 decades, and decent opportunity to grow their US network…So long as they get the onboard product right! And
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 12:59 am

qf789 wrote:
Qantas and Airbus will make an official announcement at 830am tomorrow that Project Sunrise will be going ahead. It is expected that Qantas is making a significant announcement about the future of its network which includes an announcement of the board giving the green light to order A350-1000ULR's.

Currently Airbus is positioning A350-1000 TLS-PER, presumably its going to PER as it will miss the curfew at SYD today. It is believed that the aircraft is wearing Qantas logos and is wearing the slogan "our Spirit flies further". Link to flight

https://www.flightradar24.com/26.12,50.99/8#

The first flights are expected to take off in mid 2025, with SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK to be the first flights to occur

https://www.executivetraveller.com/qant ... nrise-a350

Also as part of the announcement it is also expected that Qantas will firm order for its narrowbody fleet which includes A220 and A32XLRS. It is expected that 12 A350-1000's, 20 A220 and 20 A321XLR's to be order tomorrow along with 106 options.

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/qan ... r-history/


Glad to see this, good PR is most welcome in these times. I did actually think the narrowbody orders were firm already, but good to see it will be confirmed. A useful boost for the A35K as well, while it's not on death's door, it's definitely the less popular of the 2 sisters and could do with more orders. It's not a huge number of aircraft, but it's very high-profile, and QF's endorsement is very good news for Airbus.

Though many were skeptical about these flights, QF's diligence in determining the viability of these flights and the proven success of PER-LHR hopefully mean this will be a winner. I'd like to see more 787 orders or A359 orders in the future, as these aircraft are/will be great for capturing demand from the smaller Australian cities, lessening the pressure on SYD and MEL for connections.
 
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qf789
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 1:22 am

smi0006 wrote:
Very exciting times! QF could do with some good PR at this point.

3yrs is not long, can’t wait to see these birds in JFK and LHR - count me in as a loyal PS flyer, hate the stop overs!

Curious to also see how many options they have as well as firm orders. I think longer term the 350 along with route diversification will replace the 380s at QF.

SYD/MEL- JFK/LHR
But longer term;
SYD-ORD,CDG,LAX,DFW,SIN-LHR
MEL-DFW,
PER-LHR

I can’t see VS or BA - or any European carrier investing in such a fleet, Asian and Middle Eastern airlines can’t legally fly non-stop, it is certainly going to be a shift back in favour of QF to capture market that has been lost to Europe in particular over the last 3 decades, and decent opportunity to grow their US network…So long as they get the onboard product right! And


It looks like the options/purchase rights for A350-1000 will be 12. As stated above there is likely to be 106 options all up across A350-1000, A220 and A320neo family. In December Qantas said in their announcement when selecting Airbus that it included 94 options. 12 options for A350-1000 would take it to the 106 mentioned above

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... t-renewal/
 
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qf789
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 1:41 am

MrHMSH wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas and Airbus will make an official announcement at 830am tomorrow that Project Sunrise will be going ahead. It is expected that Qantas is making a significant announcement about the future of its network which includes an announcement of the board giving the green light to order A350-1000ULR's.

Currently Airbus is positioning A350-1000 TLS-PER, presumably its going to PER as it will miss the curfew at SYD today. It is believed that the aircraft is wearing Qantas logos and is wearing the slogan "our Spirit flies further". Link to flight

https://www.flightradar24.com/26.12,50.99/8#

The first flights are expected to take off in mid 2025, with SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK to be the first flights to occur

https://www.executivetraveller.com/qant ... nrise-a350

Also as part of the announcement it is also expected that Qantas will firm order for its narrowbody fleet which includes A220 and A32XLRS. It is expected that 12 A350-1000's, 20 A220 and 20 A321XLR's to be order tomorrow along with 106 options.

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/qan ... r-history/


Glad to see this, good PR is most welcome in these times. I did actually think the narrowbody orders were firm already, but good to see it will be confirmed. A useful boost for the A35K as well, while it's not on death's door, it's definitely the less popular of the 2 sisters and could do with more orders. It's not a huge number of aircraft, but it's very high-profile, and QF's endorsement is very good news for Airbus.

Though many were skeptical about these flights, QF's diligence in determining the viability of these flights and the proven success of PER-LHR hopefully mean this will be a winner. I'd like to see more 787 orders or A359 orders in the future, as these aircraft are/will be great for capturing demand from the smaller Australian cities, lessening the pressure on SYD and MEL for connections.


It will be welcome PR for Qantas as well considering the past month or so has been a self inflicted PR disaster for Qantas. Late last year Qantas selected aircraft but the order was to be confirmed by the this year.

Qantas has made an argument that since COVID there is an increase demand for ULR flights negating a need to transit somewhere else. We have already seen them announce MEL-DFW and are running season SYD-PER-FCO, so that already bolsters that argument. Agree about needing more 787's, atm they dont have enough, there are more routes they could operate they just dont have enough aircraft for them.
 
smi0006
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 1:43 am

qf789 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Very exciting times! QF could do with some good PR at this point.

3yrs is not long, can’t wait to see these birds in JFK and LHR - count me in as a loyal PS flyer, hate the stop overs!

Curious to also see how many options they have as well as firm orders. I think longer term the 350 along with route diversification will replace the 380s at QF.

SYD/MEL- JFK/LHR
But longer term;
SYD-ORD,CDG,LAX,DFW,SIN-LHR
MEL-DFW,
PER-LHR

I can’t see VS or BA - or any European carrier investing in such a fleet, Asian and Middle Eastern airlines can’t legally fly non-stop, it is certainly going to be a shift back in favour of QF to capture market that has been lost to Europe in particular over the last 3 decades, and decent opportunity to grow their US network…So long as they get the onboard product right! And


It looks like the options/purchase rights for A350-1000 will be 12. As stated above there is likely to be 106 options all up across A350-1000, A220 and A320neo family. In December Qantas said in their announcement when selecting Airbus that it included 94 options. 12 options for A350-1000 would take it to the 106 mentioned above

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... t-renewal/


Good point! And seems like when combined with the 789 fleet (still expecting a small top up 5-10) an agile longhaul fleet well suited to AU longhaul network. -Allowing ULH and dense flying ex-SYD, and MEL, but also allowing thinner routes ex-MEL,BNE,PER (even ADL 321) that the old QF fleet based off 330, 744, 380s could never have achieved.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 2:08 am

I could start the further vs farther debate and say "our Spirit flies farther" :-D.

What other routes could this possibly portend? Would routes like JNB-LAX, IAH-SIN, AKL-LHR, EZE-NRT, etc. be possible with this aircraft?
 
Kiwiandrew
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 2:27 am

FlyingSicilian wrote:
I could start the further vs farther debate and say "our Spirit flies farther" :-D.

What other routes could this possibly portend? Would routes like JNB-LAX, IAH-SIN, AKL-LHR, EZE-NRT, etc. be possible with this aircraft?


LHR-AKL is another 1300-1400 kilometres compared with LHR-MEL/LHR-SYD. Bear in mind we are a much smaller and lower yield destination I can't see any realistic way of getting such a service to run at a profit. The entire population of Aotearoa/New Zealand is less than that of greater Sydney, and with much lower average income. To my mind the chances of seeing LHR-AKL are vanishingly small ( though I'd be happy to be proven wrong )
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 2:37 am

May be off topic , that accident with the DHL 757 in south america , had a Qantas or Qantas link Embrier in the back ground parked up.
Where are these going to be used ?
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 2:40 am

FlyingSicilian wrote:
I could start the further vs farther debate and say "our Spirit flies farther" :-D.

What other routes could this possibly portend? Would routes like JNB-LAX, IAH-SIN, AKL-LHR, EZE-NRT, etc. be possible with this aircraft?

ULR has proven to be a graveyard of loss-making routes and aircraft types. I can't see many airlines jumping into trying to get a business case up. QF has based their Sunrise model on the assumption that pax will be prepared to pay a significant premium for the non-stop option. If that proves to be false and premium pax are still OK for a brief stop in SIN or DXB, Sunrise may also prove to be a short-lived option.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 2:41 am

hoggie1 wrote:
May be off topic , that accident with the DHL 757 in south america , had a Qantas or Qantas link Embrier in the back ground parked up.
Where are these going to be used ?

It is an ex-COPA?? E190 to operated by Alliance on a wet-lease arrangement with QF on regional and low-volume trunk routes.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 3:00 am

tullamarine wrote:
ULR has proven to be a graveyard of loss-making routes and aircraft types.

People here love to parrot that, but it simple DOES NOT reflect reality.

There's well over a dozen airlines flying twice as many ULH (15hr+ blocked flights, if we're to go by Boeing's C-market definition), yet most those were some of the first int'l routes to return after the devastation of both the '08 financial crisis and now the Covid pandemic.

That's not a coincidence, as many of those routes are some of the airlines' most lucrative per-segment operations, and/or contribute most lucratively to their overall route network.

It's 2022, not 2005, where some airlines were haphazardly trying to do this with aircraft that carried 100tonnes of deadweight, and a fuel-delta resembling Concorde, in comparison to today's 787/A350s........
Last edited by LAX772LR on Sun May 01, 2022 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 3:21 am

A photo of the plane en-route has already made it into the database:

 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 3:26 am

Hmm, odd, I don't know why this post disappeared as it doesn't violate any TOS (and if so, I'd like to know what)... but here's the recap, in case that was a mistake:

qf789 wrote:
order A350-1000ULR's.

Has Airbus even confirmed that there'll be such an aircraft? Thus far, the only thing official that I'm aware of, is that they've raised the MTOW of (all future) A35Ks up to 319 tonnes. There is the possibility that they may just raise it a bit more, rather than modifying the fuel system, if they feel they have the volume.

There's popular speculation is that the Sunrise aircraft will be 3xx tonne A35Ks with the "ULR" center fuel tank realignment, and a/multiple supplementary tanks in the rear cargo hold, which may or may not be removable.

But again, that's all speculation-- seems we've not yet heard a peep out of Airbus as to what this aircraft actually will be/do in order to hit that range. Or have we, and I missed it? Happy to be corrected. But I'm sorry perplexed as to why they're keeping it such a mystery.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 3:31 am

hOMSaR wrote:
A photo of the plane en-route has already made it into the database:



Cannot wait to see it in full Qantas colors!
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 3:32 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Cannot wait to see it in full Qantas colors!

Can you imagine if QF does a special livery?!

Or heck, bring back Nalanji and Wunala!
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 4:11 am

LAX772LR wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Cannot wait to see it in full Qantas colors!

Can you imagine if QF does a special livery?!

Or heck, bring back Nalanji and Wunala!


If they paint a 789 and an A35K in Nalanji/Wunala colors I can't imagine a single person here being upset. It's a win win for everyone.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 4:30 am

Air Baltic A220-300 YL-ABH arrived in SYD last night ahead of tomorrow’s announcement

Image

https://twitter.com/16right_media/statu ... ho3PT7hpxw
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 4:38 am

LAX772LR wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Cannot wait to see it in full Qantas colors!

Can you imagine if QF does a special livery?!

Or heck, bring back Nalanji and Wunala!


Yes please!
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 4:56 am

FlyingSicilian wrote:
Would routes like JNB-LAX, IAH-SIN, AKL-LHR, EZE-NRT, etc. be possible with this aircraft?

AKL-LHR would be too far, and NZ can do AKL-JFK on 787. EZE-NRT also too far.

Others a maybe, but would it be worth it for a small fleet.


tullamarine wrote:
ULR has proven to be a graveyard of loss-making routes and aircraft types. I can't see many airlines jumping into trying to get a business case up.


I think two things count for Qantas on this that few other airlines could take advantage of.

1. They can fly the aircraft SYD/MEL - LHR/JFK, whereas most other airlines only have one route (eg. Say BA)

2. It's giving them an effective monopoly on the direct Kangaroo route where they previously faced big competition from 10+ hub airlines in the middle who could consolidate multiple destinations.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 5:25 am

This is crucial- they can skip Singapore or other traditional stopover points and go non stop.

That makes it easier for people flying. And nobody else can really compete against them.

The only reason I might not fly direct to London is it goes further than I need to go.

However, Sydney-Paris would work, then use TGV.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 5:39 am

Congratulations QF & AB!! And yes, indeed, a shot in the arm for the A350-1000. Curious to see the layout and color scheme.

Could spark interest in the A350-1000 from other carriers, namely EK. Airbus has history in constantly improving weight gains, so 319t maybe just for starters for Sunrise.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 5:47 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Has Airbus even confirmed that there'll be such an aircraft?


from https://www.airbus.com/sites/g/files/jl ... Family.pdf

"True long range leader flying up to 9,700nm***"

"***ULR configuration"
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 7:01 am

qf789 wrote:
Also as part of the announcement it is also expected that Qantas will firm order for its narrowbody fleet which includes A220 and A32XLRS. It is expected that 12 A350-1000's, 20 A220 and 20 A321XLR's to be order tomorrow along with 106 options.

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/qan ... r-history/


Everyone is most excited about the A350 and the Sunrise flying, but the majority of those 106 options will be for the narrowbodies. Over the next decade I’d expect about 50-60 more A320 or 321neos to replace the 738 fleet, some more A220s in a regional role and maybe another dozen or so A350s if the aircraft is succesful.

There’s still going to be about 40 738’s flying til the early 2030’s, and then the question is what becomes of the 789s? Do they get more or do the current 789s fill a niche role in the airline?
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 7:06 am

Good to see Qantas being confident about the market recovery and future oil prices remaining acceptable.
Having the shortest connection by far will put them on top of the list in any search engine.

I am personally still a bit sceptical about the ULR concept wasting so much payload capacity to lift fuel.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 7:40 am

zeke wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Has Airbus even confirmed that there'll be such an aircraft?

"True long range leader flying up to 9,700nm***"

"***ULR configuration"

That's for the -900. That ad's been there since the -1000 was at 308T.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 7:42 am

Noshow wrote:
I am personally still a bit sceptical about the ULR concept wasting so much payload capacity to lift fuel.

Why? Have you not been paying attention for about the last decade, as airlines (with the markets to support them) have more or less mastered the concept? SQ's chairman called its ULH routes some of the most lucrative in their network.

Again, it's not 2005-2008 anymore: we're on 3rd-generation C-market capable aircraft, and dozens of airlines are doing such routes every day, at a profit.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Sun May 01, 2022 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 7:44 am

Noshow wrote:
Good to see Qantas being confident about the market recovery and future oil prices remaining acceptable.
Having the shortest connection by far will put them on top of the list in any search engine.

I am personally still a bit sceptical about the ULR concept wasting so much payload capacity to lift fuel.

It will be likely 'premium price' due to monopoly, poor people can still fly EK, QR and EY ;)
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 8:00 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
and then the question is what becomes of the 789s? Do they get more or do the current 789s fill a niche role in the airline?


My crystal ball shows a QF long-haul fleet that is split roughly 50:50 between A350 and 787, with two configurations of each:

16x four class A35K with ~280 seats (premium long-haul ex-SYD/MEL ie LHR/PAR/JFK/ORD/LAX)
14x three class A35K with ~330 seats (long-haul primarily ex-SYD ie SFO/DFW/JNB/HND/LHR via SIN)
20x three class 789 with ~240 seats (long-haul ex-MEL/BNE/PER plus thinner routes ex-SYD ie SCL/GIG/YVR/CPT)
10x two class 789s with ~290 seats (regional A333 replacement)
 
Noshow
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 8:10 am

Why? Have you not been paying attention for about the last decade, as airlines (with the markets to support them) have more or less mastered the concept? SQ's chairman called its ULH routes some of the most lucrative in their network.


I am sceptical because I expect higher oil prices that have in the past made ULR unprofitable. We had the same euphoria with 777LR and A340-500 before. From an efficiency viewpoint it would be best to have networks tailored like the ones of cargo airlines. Maximum payload and shorter segments. ULR means you fly kerosene around the globe instead of passengers or cargo.
 
astuteman
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 8:19 am

Noshow wrote:
Why? Have you not been paying attention for about the last decade, as airlines (with the markets to support them) have more or less mastered the concept? SQ's chairman called its ULH routes some of the most lucrative in their network.


I am sceptical because I expect higher oil prices that have in the past made ULR unprofitable. We had the same euphoria with 777LR and A340-500 before. From an efficiency viewpoint it would be best to have networks tailored like the ones of cargo airlines. Maximum payload and shorter segments. ULR means you fly kerosene around the globe instead of passengers or cargo.


I think the thing that has fundamentally changed the dynamics is the efficiency and thus weight of the latest aircraft.
The SIN-EWR route that used to take a 370t A340-500 now takes a 280t A350-900ULR (which by the way has even greater range and doesn't need full fuel tanks to do the trip)
PER-LHR - flown by a 250t 787-9 and not a 350t 777LR.
The proportion of kerosene to passenger has changed significantly - the A340-500 used to need about 175t of fuel to fly the same passenger load the same distance that an A350-900 does with about 100t..

I think the other thing is that the 787's and A350's doing this today are largely "bog-standard" frames that can and will be used on any sectors the airline wants to fly - there no need for a really "niche" sub-fleet.

Rgds
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 8:24 am

qf002 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
and then the question is what becomes of the 789s? Do they get more or do the current 789s fill a niche role in the airline?


My crystal ball shows a QF long-haul fleet that is split roughly 50:50 between A350 and 787, with two configurations of each:

16x four class A35K with ~280 seats (premium long-haul ex-SYD/MEL ie LHR/PAR/JFK/ORD/LAX)
14x three class A35K with ~330 seats (long-haul primarily ex-SYD ie SFO/DFW/JNB/HND/LHR via SIN)
20x three class 789 with ~240 seats (long-haul ex-MEL/BNE/PER plus thinner routes ex-SYD ie SCL/GIG/YVR/CPT)
10x two class 789s with ~290 seats (regional A333 replacement)


I would tend to agree with you there. It’s just a case to me as to weather they add the A359 with 300 seats instead of a 3 class A35K with 330 and also the 781 as a 330 seater instead of a 2 class 789. 4 configurations seems about right by me for QF long haul.
 
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 8:27 am

I agree that late twins made much progress but operating them on non-ULR routes would use them even more efficient.
With Russian airspace needing to be bypassed by many airlines now there might be a new market for ULR forming anyway.
 
 
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HKAusFlyer
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 8:32 am

Think Qantas will eventually exercise those 12 options that also replace their A380 fleet.

Alan Joyce said this will be the second step once they’ve got sufficient numbers from the first batch of -1000s to over-fly hubs like LAX.

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/ ... rise-a380s
 
Kikko19
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 8:58 am

astuteman wrote:
Noshow wrote:
Why? Have you not been paying attention for about the last decade, as airlines (with the markets to support them) have more or less mastered the concept? SQ's chairman called its ULH routes some of the most lucrative in their network.


I am sceptical because I expect higher oil prices that have in the past made ULR unprofitable. We had the same euphoria with 777LR and A340-500 before. From an efficiency viewpoint it would be best to have networks tailored like the ones of cargo airlines. Maximum payload and shorter segments. ULR means you fly kerosene around the globe instead of passengers or cargo.


I think the thing that has fundamentally changed the dynamics is the efficiency and thus weight of the latest aircraft.
The SIN-EWR route that used to take a 370t A340-500 now takes a 280t A350-900ULR (which by the way has even greater range and doesn't need full fuel tanks to do the trip)
PER-LHR - flown by a 250t 787-9 and not a 350t 777LR.
The proportion of kerosene to passenger has changed significantly - the A340-500 used to need about 175t of fuel to fly the same passenger load the same distance that an A350-900 does with about 100t..

I think the other thing is that the 787's and A350's doing this today are largely "bog-standard" frames that can and will be used on any sectors the airline wants to fly - there no need for a really "niche" sub-fleet.

Rgds

How big modifications needed for a35k to get the distance? Will they be ported back to a359? I see other airlines like TK on board the tender for these planes. PS: good choice over the over and over delayed 77x
 
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Goodbye
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 10:16 am

Exciting times! I can't wait for some more Airbus long-haulers in the QF fleet!
Last edited by Goodbye on Sun May 01, 2022 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 10:20 am

Goodbye wrote:
Exciting times! I can't wait for some Airbus long-haulers in the QF fleet!


What are the A380s and A330s?
 
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Goodbye
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 10:46 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Goodbye wrote:
Exciting times! I can't wait for some Airbus long-haulers in the QF fleet!


What are the A380s and A330s?


Forgot the "more" :|
 
oschkosch
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 10:50 am

Congrats to QF and especially to Airbus!

Gesendet von meinem SM-G781B mit Tapatalk
 
etchasketch
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 10:55 am

These flights are going to be a winner for a reason I haven't seen much discussed. Australia is obviously culturally linked to the UK, but making a connection en route is an unwelcome reminder of how big the world is, and how much of humanity is between Australia and the UK. DXB can feel like Mos Eisley Spaceport. Unadventurous retirees who still want to travel are currently paying $3-5k per person for a luxury train trips like the Ghan - this is the untapped market. Nonstop to London is going to feel like putting a man on the moon; someplace that seemed inaccessible will now be in reach.
 
cpd
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 11:10 am

PM wrote:


SMH picked it up as well. I’m really interested in how this will be fitted out.
 
moa999
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 12:06 pm

Flightaware has posted details of the next segment.

Monday
02/05/2022
01:00 AWST Perth Int'l - PER
08:00 AEST Sydney - SYD

As at time of posting it's 2005 AWST so another 5hrs.
 
airbazar
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 12:09 pm

etchasketch wrote:
These flights are going to be a winner for a reason I haven't seen much discussed. Australia is obviously culturally linked to the UK, but making a connection en route is an unwelcome reminder of how big the world is, and how much of humanity is between Australia and the UK. DXB can feel like Mos Eisley Spaceport. Unadventurous retirees who still want to travel are currently paying $3-5k per person for a luxury train trips like the Ghan - this is the untapped market. Nonstop to London is going to feel like putting a man on the moon; someplace that seemed inaccessible will now be in reach.

The vast majority of people will still chose the 1-stop, if nothing else because the non-stop will likely be more expensive. And then there's the fact that most people can't afford to fly anything other than economy and a 2-hour stop in SIN or LAX/DFW to stretch your legs and take in some "fresh air" isn't all that bad. It will be interesting to see how they configure it but wouldn't shock me to see something similar to SQ's ULR's.
 
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keesje
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 12:21 pm

I can see BA topping up their A350-1000 fleet with 6-10 additionalz dedicated to longer flights from LHR and MAN.

I think it makes a big change for airli es tbey don't have to get dedicated ULH aircraft like the A345 and 772LR. A 318t A350-1000 will offer extra fevenue payload on any flight longer than 11, 12 hours.
 
bunumuring
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 12:29 pm

Hey guys,

I went to see the Air Baltic A220 at SYD this afternoon. It was attracting a bit of attention and looked fantastic! I hope to drive to SYD again tomorrow to check out the A350…

Having spent nearly three uncomfortable hours on an Alliance/QantasLink E190 last week, Townsville to Sydney, with only one operational toilet in a full flight, I look forward to a possible decision by QF to eventually order the A220-100 as well to replace the E190s as well as the remaining Fokkers! Sad to see the 717s being replaced as I love them, but happy it’s the A220 and not E2s being ordered.

Take care and big cheers to Qantas! Sunrise will big a smashing success, I’m sure!

Bunumuring
 
moa999
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 12:35 pm

airbazar wrote:
The vast majority of people will still chose the 1-stop, if nothing else because the non-stop will likely be more expensive. .


And Qantas is fine with that. All they need is a small percentage of people flying the route to pay a premium for the direct flight.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 12:37 pm

airbazar wrote:
etchasketch wrote:
These flights are going to be a winner for a reason I haven't seen much discussed. Australia is obviously culturally linked to the UK, but making a connection en route is an unwelcome reminder of how big the world is, and how much of humanity is between Australia and the UK. DXB can feel like Mos Eisley Spaceport. Unadventurous retirees who still want to travel are currently paying $3-5k per person for a luxury train trips like the Ghan - this is the untapped market. Nonstop to London is going to feel like putting a man on the moon; someplace that seemed inaccessible will now be in reach.


The vast majority of people will still chose the 1-stop, if nothing else because the non-stop will likely be more expensive. And then there's the fact that most people can't afford to fly anything other than economy and a 2-hour stop in SIN or LAX/DFW to stretch your legs and take in some "fresh air" isn't all that bad. It will be interesting to see how they configure it but wouldn't shock me to see something similar to SQ's ULR's.


Based on what? Have you ever flown between Europe and Australia? The fact that the PER-LHR flights pre-pandemic had over 90% load factor at the very expensive prices shows that there is plenty of demand for a non-stop service. The entire premise of Project Sunrise is based on the fact most people will want to go non-stop. I regularly fly from Europe to Australia and not having to get off the flight in the middle would be wonderful.

The config will be four classes, with the economy class seats reported to be one inch wider than currently on the 787 and with 34" pitch instead of 31". Premium Economy will be new, with a pitch well over 40". It will be comfortable and Qantas have put the research into the experience to make sure of that. Can't wait for the exact details though! Exciting times.
 
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HKAusFlyer
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 1:43 pm

keesje wrote:
I can see BA topping up their A350-1000 fleet with 6-10 additionalz dedicated to longer flights from LHR and MAN.

I think it makes a big change for airli es tbey don't have to get dedicated ULH aircraft like the A345 and 772LR. A 318t A350-1000 will offer extra fevenue payload on any flight longer than 11, 12 hours.


I can also see BA increasing their A350-1000 order, even possibly scooping up Qatar’s built but not-taken-up 35Ks.

One way or the other, A350-1000s will arrive sooner than the 18 Boeing 777-9Xs BA has on order, or its 787-10s that need extensive rework on fuselage gaps.

Qantas’s Sunrise A350-1000 will be based on the 319-tonne MTOW version, with a few modifications to the fuel system and possibly an extra tank, so they must be newly-built ones.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Qantas/Airbus to launch Project Sunrise and firm narrowbody order tomorrow (2 May 22)

Sun May 01, 2022 1:50 pm

Fantastic news. I hope to someday utilise the service.

If it’s successful and helps grow traffic, perhaps even BA might consider a similar route eventually. Maybe…
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