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Velocirapture
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United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 2:51 am

May 1, 2022 was the 75th anniversary of UA's service to Hawaii. That strikes me as pretty remarkable.

What other carriers - including HA - have served Hawaii for a long time? Which of the US carriers - old and new - served Hawaii at one time, too. Did USAir (pre-HP) serve HNL or any other destination in Hawaii? How long has Southwest been serving Hawaii - I don't remember which year they started.
 
Wneast
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 2:54 am

WN started March 2019 but announce attentions I believe in 2017.
 
United1
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 3:17 am

HA started intra-island service in 1929 but didn't start flights between Hawaii and the mainland until 1985.

PA started service in 1935/36 and ran until 1991.
 
SkyVoice
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 6:44 am

Let's see what I can shake out of my old brain (which gets a year older this month!).

American started Hawaii service back in the Seventies. They used to partner with Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays for cruises that circled the islands and called on the major ports.

I don't remember if Braniff served Hawaii, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. If you know about or experienced Braniff service to Hawaii, feel free to post your memories.

Northwest, f/k/a Northwest Orient, served Hawaii from the airline's major gateway cities and their hubs. IIRC, NW used to codeshare with Aloha.

Delta does serve and still serves Hawaii. At the turn of the 21st Century, Delta flew a 767-400 nonstop to HNL from CVG.

TWA flew to Hawaii from several mainland cities. Their Flight 1, which flew to Honolulu nonstop from St. Louis, was once operated with a 747, then a 767, and finally a 757 (perhaps with a tech stop). I don't think that TWA ever flew their L-1011s to Hawaii.

And, Allegiant tried--and failed--to make a go of it to Hawaii using 757s.

One more thing, before long distance flights to Lihue, Kahului, and Kailua-Kona became a thing, the major carriers also served Hilo!

I'm sorry if I left anyone out. Have a blessed week!

-SkyVoice
 
Wingtips56
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 7:22 am

Western Airlines flew to Hawaii starting in 1969, if you believe Wikipedia. I flew their DC-10 LAX-HNL-LAX. 707, 720 and DC-10s various routes.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 7:33 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
Western Airlines flew to Hawaii starting in 1969, if you believe Wikipedia. I flew their DC-10 LAX-HNL-LAX. 707, 720 and DC-10s various routes.

Don't forget HNL-ANC-LGW on the DC10.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 7:37 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
Western Airlines flew to Hawaii starting in 1969, if you believe Wikipedia. I flew their DC-10 LAX-HNL-LAX. 707, 720 and DC-10s various routes.


I believe it's right. It's when they reveived the rights to serve the islands and ordered for that purpose the 747s that were later cancelled.

TWA772LR wrote:
Don't forget HNL-ANC-LGW on the DC10.


That was about ten years later.
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 12:00 pm

I believe NW started service in 48 to HNL so not far behind.
 
jetskipper
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 12:27 pm

SkyVoice wrote:
Let's see what I can shake out of my old brain (which gets a year older this month!).

American started Hawaii service back in the Seventies. They used to partner with Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays for cruises that circled the islands and called on the major ports.

I don't remember if Braniff served Hawaii, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. If you know about or experienced Braniff service to Hawaii, feel free to post your memories.

Northwest, f/k/a Northwest Orient, served Hawaii from the airline's major gateway cities and their hubs. IIRC, NW used to codeshare with Aloha.

Delta does serve and still serves Hawaii. At the turn of the 21st Century, Delta flew a 767-400 nonstop to HNL from CVG.

TWA flew to Hawaii from several mainland cities. Their Flight 1, which flew to Honolulu nonstop from St. Louis, was once operated with a 747, then a 767, and finally a 757 (perhaps with a tech stop). I don't think that TWA ever flew their L-1011s to Hawaii.

And, Allegiant tried--and failed--to make a go of it to Hawaii using 757s.

One more thing, before long distance flights to Lihue, Kahului, and Kailua-Kona became a thing, the major carriers also served Hilo!

I'm sorry if I left anyone out. Have a blessed week!

-SkyVoice


UA still flies to Hilo.
 
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Polot
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 12:37 pm

SkyVoice wrote:
I don't remember if Braniff served Hawaii, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. If you know about or experienced Braniff service to Hawaii, feel free to post your memories.

Braniff started HNL in 1971 with the introduction of their 747. Hawaii was the primary use of the plane until they started flying to Europe later that decade. The last scheduled Braniff flight that operated was actually HNL-DFW.
 
ZazuPIT
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 12:46 pm

Polot wrote:
SkyVoice wrote:
I don't remember if Braniff served Hawaii, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. If you know about or experienced Braniff service to Hawaii, feel free to post your memories.

Braniff started HNL in 1971 with the introduction of their 747. Hawaii was the primary use of the plane until they started flying to Europe later that decade. The last scheduled Braniff flight that operated was actually HNL-DFW.


Braniff served Hawaii pre-747, with 707's obviously. From DAL, to both HNL (daily) and Hilo (weekly-ish).
 
LCDFlight
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 12:50 pm

Velocirapture wrote:
May 1, 2022 was the 75th anniversary of UA's service to Hawaii. That strikes me as pretty remarkable.

What other carriers - including HA - have served Hawaii for a long time? Which of the US carriers - old and new - served Hawaii at one time, too. Did USAir (pre-HP) serve HNL or any other destination in Hawaii? How long has Southwest been serving Hawaii - I don't remember which year they started.


USAir did not serve HNL prior, but HP did (with 747), and HP/US modified their 757s to relaunch Hawaii service. Which continues today, basically. The CLT-HNL flight also continues seasonally. (CLT has grown and HNL demand is strong due to COVID).
 
GARUDAROD
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 1:18 pm

TWA most definitely flew the L-1011s to HNL. I flew them in 1987 LAX-HNL-LAX.
You also had American Trans Air that flew multiple L-1011s to HNL from the mainland in the 70's80s90s.
Braniff had a schedule on the B747SP that went LAX-HNL-GUM-HKG and return.
There were also short term players, The Hawaii Express, DC-10, Air Hawaii, DC-10, Pacific Interstate Air, DC-63 and DC-10
Air America and Total Air with L1011s and World Airways DC-10s from LAX, OAK, BWI, BOS
 
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STT757
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 1:49 pm

Continental Airlines launched Los Angeles to Hilo and Honolulu in 1964 or 1969?

https://aviation.hawaii.gov/pioneer-airlines/continental-airlines/
 
LHUSA
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 2:27 pm

I know that for April, United was the largest carrier to Hawaii, even over HA, by number of flights and total seats. Summer is still unclear bc of the 777 issue, but expect that to stay true.
 
Velocirapture
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 2:51 pm

GARUDAROD wrote:
TWA most definitely flew the L-1011s to HNL. I flew them in 1987 LAX-HNL-LAX.
You also had American Trans Air that flew multiple L-1011s to HNL from the mainland in the 70's80s90s.
Braniff had a schedule on the B747SP that went LAX-HNL-GUM-HKG and return.
There were also short term players, The Hawaii Express, DC-10, Air Hawaii, DC-10, Pacific Interstate Air, DC-63 and DC-10
Air America and Total Air with L1011s and World Airways DC-10s from LAX, OAK, BWI, BOS


I remember another L1011 operator at HNL - Rich International. Their crews were great to me. One flight, HNL-LAX (IIRC) was on a former EA L1011 and all crew members, save for one, were ex-EA, too.

I still get to Hawaii regularly including last week. Sometimes, it's fun to see all the different aircraft types on the airways between the mainland and Hawaii. It's relatively easy to pass the slower types like 737s.
 
mga707
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 4:14 pm

STT757 wrote:
Continental Airlines launched Los Angeles to Hilo and Honolulu in 1964 or 1969?

https://aviation.hawaii.gov/pioneer-airlines/continental-airlines/


1969. Which was when the long, convoluted Transpacific route case was finally settled. CO, WA, TW, and BN all began Hawai'i service that year, with AA joining them in 1970. Prior to this case, only PA, UA, and NW had served Hawai'i from the mainland U.S. NW's service expanded, with flights from LAX and SFO (originating in MSP) joining their long-standing service from PDX and SEA to HNL. UA gained nonstop rights to other US cities besides LAX and SFO, which is the reason they had ordered long-range DC-8-62s. AA and TW's awards came with restrictions that their flights continue to other points (TW's short-lived 'round the world' service and AA's South Pacific routes). Additionally, AA did not get the rights to fly to Hawai'i from LAX/SFO that they wanted. They only obtained authority to/from STL/ORD/JFK. These restrictions pretty much doomed both airlines in the market, and both had dropped HNL prior to deregulation. Of course, both restarted post-deregulation. AA 'swapped' nearly all of their Hawai'i flights, save for one weekly STL-HNL run, and all of their South Pacific authority, to Pan Am for additional Caribbean routes in the mid-'70s.
The entire Transpacific case is fascinating. It began in the mid-'60s, and President Johnson had signed off on the final awards before he left office in January 1969. The new president (Nixon) immediately cancelled Johnson's OK and the case was re-opened and changed. American, especially, had a lot of initial awards taken away with the changes Nixon made. They were NOT happy.
 
MrBretz
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 5:08 pm

Let’s not forget Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays using ATA’s aircraft. I recall a Tristar and even a 747 if my memory serves me right.
 
SFOThinker
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 5:09 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
Western Airlines flew to Hawaii starting in 1969, if you believe Wikipedia. I flew their DC-10 LAX-HNL-LAX. 707, 720 and DC-10s various routes.

I remember Western serving an alcoholic tropical punch from a service trolley with a “volcano” model on it, complete with dry ice-generated smoke coming out from the top. I’ve forgotten the name they gave to this service, but they heavily advertised it.
 
MrBretz
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 5:26 pm

SFOThinker wrote:
Wingtips56 wrote:
Western Airlines flew to Hawaii starting in 1969, if you believe Wikipedia. I flew their DC-10 LAX-HNL-LAX. 707, 720 and DC-10s various routes.

I remember Western serving an alcoholic tropical punch from a service trolley with a “volcano” model on it, complete with dry ice-generated smoke coming out from the top. I’ve forgotten the name they gave to this service, but they heavily advertised it.


HA still gives you a meal(a hot wrap) and a rum punch(light on the rum) in coach.
 
se210
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 5:52 pm

SFOThinker wrote:
I remember Western serving an alcoholic tropical punch from a service trolley with a “volcano” model on it, complete with dry ice-generated smoke coming out from the top. I’ve forgotten the name they gave to this service, but they heavily advertised it.

The Volcano Punch service shows up at 00:13 in this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzR7xa3KTaQ
Source: YouTube

Part of their "Islander Service" as shown in this advertisment...
http://www.departedflights.com/WAactivevolcano.html
 
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FlySail2015
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 6:24 pm

SkyVoice wrote:
TWA flew to Hawaii from several mainland cities. Their Flight 1, which flew to Honolulu nonstop from St. Louis, was once operated with a 747, then a 767, and finally a 757 (perhaps with a tech stop). I don't think that TWA ever flew their L-1011s to Hawaii.


If this helps a little... I do know that in the later years, TWA's Hawaiian ops included STL-HNL, STL-OGG, and LAX-HNL. STL-HNL, TWA 1, was indeed originally flown on the 747 and then changed to a 763 when the 747s were retired, but was never flown by a 757 that I know of. STL-OGG was also a 763. LAX-HNL was an L-1011 originally, and then changed to a 757 when the 1011s were retired.

My dad was a TWA pilot during this time and we have home videos of him flying the 1011 on HNL-LAX in 1994 and the 763 on STL-OGG in 2001.
 
capejet
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 8:07 pm

MGA707 wrote:
[/quote] Additionally, AA did not get the rights to fly to Hawai'i from LAX/SFO that they wanted. They only obtained authority to/from STL/ORD/JFK. These restrictions pretty much doomed both airlines in the market, and both had dropped HNL prior to deregulation. Of course, both restarted post-deregulation. AA 'swapped' nearly all of their Hawai'i flights, save for one weekly STL-HNL run, and all of their South Pacific authority, to Pan Am for additional Caribbean routes in the mid-'70s.
The entire Transpacific case is fascinating. It began in the mid-'60s, and President Johnson had signed off on the final awards before he left office in January 1969. The new president (Nixon) immediately cancelled Johnson's OK and the case was re-opened and changed. American, especially, had a lot of initial awards taken away with the changes Nixon made. They were NOT happy.[/quote]

AA flew that weekly STL-HNL with a 707 that stopped in SFO but they could not pick up passengers there. I know they were doing that in the mid 1970s but not sure for how many years.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 9:26 pm

GARUDAROD wrote:
There were also short term players, The Hawaii Express, DC-10, Air Hawaii, DC-10, Pacific Interstate Air, DC-63 and DC-10
Air America and Total Air with L1011s and World Airways DC-10s from LAX, OAK, BWI, BOS

The Hawaii Express also had 747s.

There was also a scheduled charter operation from OAK using 737s a few years ago. I think operated by Miami Air?
Sun Country, in its current form as well as previously with DC-10s.
Omni Air to LAS for a tour operator was another.

Going further back, Transocean (TALOA) and Matson.

Air Marshall Islands also operated to Majuro with US registered aircraft:
Image
Last edited by flyPIT on Wed May 04, 2022 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
mga707
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 9:32 pm

capejet wrote:
MGA707 wrote:
Additionally, AA did not get the rights to fly to Hawai'i from LAX/SFO that they wanted. They only obtained authority to/from STL/ORD/JFK. These restrictions pretty much doomed both airlines in the market, and both had dropped HNL prior to deregulation. Of course, both restarted post-deregulation. AA 'swapped' nearly all of their Hawai'i flights, save for one weekly STL-HNL run, and all of their South Pacific authority, to Pan Am for additional Caribbean routes in the mid-'70s.
The entire Transpacific case is fascinating. It began in the mid-'60s, and President Johnson had signed off on the final awards before he left office in January 1969. The new president (Nixon) immediately cancelled Johnson's OK and the case was re-opened and changed. American, especially, had a lot of initial awards taken away with the changes Nixon made. They were NOT happy.


AA flew that weekly STL-HNL with a 707 that stopped in SFO but they could not pick up passengers there. I know they were doing that in the mid 1970s but not sure for how many years.


Correct. That weekly flight ended in April 1978. As I mentioned, that was their only HNL authority that wasn't swapped with Pan Am for additional Caribbean authority in 1974/75. AA was out of HNL altogether for a nearly three years, until December 1980, post-deregulation. Initially to/from LAX, with DFW added in '81. They could then serve HNL from any domestic point, unlike the earlier flights with their C.A.B. restrictions. Their HNL flights were among the last operated by their 747-123s before those were swapped with Pan Am in 1984 for PA's ex-National DC-10s.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Wed May 04, 2022 9:37 pm

flyPIT wrote:
GARUDAROD wrote:
There were also short term players, The Hawaii Express, DC-10, Air Hawaii, DC-10, Pacific Interstate Air, DC-63 and DC-10
Air America and Total Air with L1011s and World Airways DC-10s from LAX, OAK, BWI, BOS

The Hawaii Express also had 747s.


Just one: https://www.planespotters.net/airline/T ... ii-Express
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 1:26 am

United - "Our little corner of the World" was their Hawaii slogan for years
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 4:07 am

LHUSA wrote:
I know that for April, United was the largest carrier to Hawaii, even over HA, by number of flights and total seats. Summer is still unclear bc of the 777 issue, but expect that to stay true.


Before Covid, United had been the largest airline to Hawaii (larger than Hawaiian) for years and years. Maybe decades? Covid has thrown everything out a bit, but going forward I’d assume that the status quo will be resumed.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 5:03 am

Suntrips used HA DC-10s and later L-1011s for both mainland-Hawai'i and mainland-Europe service, I believe before HA started its own scheduled transPac services. (My folks flew the Suntrips flights SFO-LGW on L-1011, with fuel stops in Frobisher Bay and Gander.)
 
EssentialBusDC
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 6:02 am

FlySail2015 wrote:
SkyVoice wrote:
TWA flew to Hawaii from several mainland cities. Their Flight 1, which flew to Honolulu nonstop from St. Louis, was once operated with a 747, then a 767, and finally a 757 (perhaps with a tech stop). I don't think that TWA ever flew their L-1011s to Hawaii.


If this helps a little... I do know that in the later years, TWA's Hawaiian ops included STL-HNL, STL-OGG, and LAX-HNL. STL-HNL, TWA 1, was indeed originally flown on the 747 and then changed to a 763 when the 747s were retired, but was never flown by a 757 that I know of. STL-OGG was also a 763. LAX-HNL was an L-1011 originally, and then changed to a 757 when the 1011s were retired.

My dad was a TWA pilot during this time and we have home videos of him flying the 1011 on HNL-LAX in 1994 and the 763 on STL-OGG in 2001.

For a short time a 757 did operate STL-HNL with a fuel stop in LAX , the return was a nonstop. The 747 had been retired but due to delays at Boeing, the 767’s needed to fly it weren’t delivered yet.
 
tpaewr
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 7:54 am

STT757 wrote:
Continental Airlines launched Los Angeles to Hilo and Honolulu in 1964 or 1969?

https://aviation.hawaii.gov/pioneer-airlines/continental-airlines/


UA may have HI, not my focus.

But I always find it hilarious when UA trumpets its decades long service to Japan or Mexico ,etc. When it was really Continental. United had nothing till they pillaged PA dying corpse.

But to be fair DL does the same in Asia with NW.
 
mga707
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 2:38 pm

tpaewr wrote:

But I always find it hilarious when UA trumpets its decades long service to Japan or Mexico ,etc. When it was really Continental. United had nothing till they pillaged PA dying corpse.

But to be fair DL does the same in Asia with NW.


In this case it is accurate. United Airlines did begin service to Honolulu in 1947. Continental's Hawai'i flights (excluding Vietnam-era MAC charters that began around 1965) began in 1969, 22 years later. If UAL takes Pan Am's history into account, then they could claim service to the islands all the way back to 1935!
Delta will have to wait another year and a half, as Northwest began Honolulu service in December 1948.
 
SFOThinker
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 6:06 pm

Does anyone know what equipment United used initially in its Hawaii service? I have seen old pictures of Boeing 377 Stratocruisers at SFO bound for Honolulu, so that’s my guess. I have read here http://northwestairlineshistory.org/wp- ... letter.pdf that United got rid of them to BOAC and I assume used DC 6Bs later. Does anyone have sources that confirm United’s history of equipment to Hawaii? I know United flew DC7s, so I assume they were also used prior to the arrival of DC 8s.
 
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United787
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 6:52 pm

tpaewr wrote:
But I always find it hilarious when UA trumpets its decades long service to Japan or Mexico ,etc. When it was really Continental. United had nothing till they pillaged PA dying corpse.

But to be fair DL does the same in Asia with NW.


To be fair:

UA has flown to Japan since the early 1980s:
http://www.departedflights.com/UA100184.html

PA pillaged itself by running itself into the ground and thereby needing to sell off it's assets.

UA, DL, AA, US, EA and CO (with some exceptions) were essentially domestic airlines before PA imploded. Only PA and NW were international carriers prior to deregulation.

UA took what they got from the purchase of PA's pacific division in 1985 and grew their Pacific network. Their network from SFO and to a lesser extent LAX to Asia and Oceania is extremely enviable.

UA took what they got from the purchase of PA's LHR routes in 1990 and kicked off expansion to Europe. They have grown their presence at LHR despite not having a *Alliance partner hubbed there.

UA took what they got from the purchase of PA's Latin American routes in 1991 and expanded south. The MIA and JFK hubs didn't survive but the routes to South America gave UA a foot hold there. Despite having domestic hubs that didn't favor Latin America, they held on to their foothold until the merger with CO.

UA took what came out of the merger with CO and grew the international network even more.

PA never came close to what UA (DL and AA) has now. Good for UA. By comparison, look how AA squandered their purchase of TWA at JFK...
 
SFOThinker
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 7:01 pm

United787 wrote:
tpaewr wrote:

UA, DL, AA, US, EA and CO (with some exceptions) were essentially domestic airlines before PA imploded. Only PA and NW were international carriers prior to deregulation.


You have forgotten TWA, which flew to Europe, North Africa and the Middle East.
 
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barney captain
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 7:04 pm

Kaiser Air is flying several times a week OAK-KOA, currently there are 3 enroute at the same time. I'm not sure if they are charters or part of something else.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 7:48 pm

barney captain wrote:
Kaiser Air is flying several times a week OAK-KOA, currently there are 3 enroute at the same time. I'm not sure if they are charters or part of something else.


This is their Hawaii Shuttle, a membership service for owners in certain developments in Kona.

https://flyhawaiishuttle.com/
 
uclax
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 8:30 pm

It may have been mentioned already, but DL launched its first HI service in the mid 80s, 2-3 years before the WA merger. First route was DFW-HNL with an L15.
I don't see Aloha's Mainland service mentioned from the 90s and/or 2000s. Destinations included BUR.
 
mga707
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Thu May 05, 2022 10:21 pm

SFOThinker wrote:
United787 wrote:
tpaewr wrote:

UA, DL, AA, US, EA and CO (with some exceptions) were essentially domestic airlines before PA imploded. Only PA and NW were international carriers prior to deregulation.


You have forgotten TWA, which flew to Europe, North Africa and the Middle East.


And Braniff, which started flying to Latin America in 1947. As well as American, which took over American Export Airlines during the war and once the war ended started their own flights to Europe under the name American Overseas Airlines. AOA, BN, NW, and TWA all began their international operations shortly after WW2, to different areas: BN to Latin America; NW across the North Pacific to the Orient; AOA to northern Europe; and TWA to southern Europe, N Africa, and the Middle East (as you stated). American sold their AOA subsidiary to Pan Am in 1950, but the other three had extensive international operations long before deregulation.
Pan Am (Juan Trippe) tried hard to stop the others from gaining international routes but failed.
 
PI4EVR
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 12:36 am

And as a "supplemental airline" Transocean Air Lines (TALOA) flew from OAK beginning in the late 40's using DC-4's and a single DC-6A to Honolulu, Wake Island, Guam and eventually Okinawa. They also helped form the first service on Philippine Air Lines, using a DC-4 and DC-6 to fly MNL-SFO also via Guam, Wake and HNL. TALOA also flew L-749 and L-1049 Constellations, and a few Stratocruisers until they folded in 1960.
 
mga707
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 12:41 am

PI4EVR wrote:
And as a "supplemental airline" Transocean Air Lines (TALOA) flew from OAK beginning in the late 40's using DC-4's and a single DC-6A to Honolulu, Wake Island, Guam and eventually Okinawa. They also helped form the first service on Philippine Air Lines, using a DC-4 and DC-6 to fly MNL-SFO also via Guam, Wake and HNL. TALOA also flew L-749 and L-1049 Constellations, and a few Stratocruisers until they folded in 1960.


Yes, TALOA certainly deserves mention. The fictional airline in the classic film "The High and the Mighty", as well as the Ernest Gann novel the movie was adapted from, was a thinly-disguised TALOA, if memory serves.
 
Josh76040
Posts: 71
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 5:29 am

United787 wrote:
tpaewr wrote:
But I always find it hilarious when UA trumpets its decades long service to Japan or Mexico ,etc. When it was really Continental. United had nothing till they pillaged PA dying corpse.

But to be fair DL does the same in Asia with NW.


To be fair:

UA has flown to Japan since the early 1980s:
http://www.departedflights.com/UA100184.html

PA pillaged itself by running itself into the ground and thereby needing to sell off it's assets.

UA, DL, AA, US, EA and CO (with some exceptions) were essentially domestic airlines before PA imploded. Only PA and NW were international carriers prior to deregulation.

UA took what they got from the purchase of PA's pacific division in 1985 and grew their Pacific network. Their network from SFO and to a lesser extent LAX to Asia and Oceania is extremely enviable.

UA took what they got from the purchase of PA's LHR routes in 1990 and kicked off expansion to Europe. They have grown their presence at LHR despite not having a *Alliance partner hubbed there.

UA took what they got from the purchase of PA's Latin American routes in 1991 and expanded south. The MIA and JFK hubs didn't survive but the routes to South America gave UA a foot hold there. Despite having domestic hubs that didn't favor Latin America, they held on to their foothold until the merger with CO.

UA took what came out of the merger with CO and grew the international network even more.

PA never came close to what UA (DL and AA) has now. Good for UA. By comparison, look how AA squandered their purchase of TWA at JFK...


No worse than how BADLY United squandered its operation at MIA. Selective memory.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 9184
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 9:29 am

Josh76040 wrote:
United787 wrote:
tpaewr wrote:
But I always find it hilarious when UA trumpets its decades long service to Japan or Mexico ,etc. When it was really Continental. United had nothing till they pillaged PA dying corpse.

But to be fair DL does the same in Asia with NW.


To be fair:

UA has flown to Japan since the early 1980s:
http://www.departedflights.com/UA100184.html

PA pillaged itself by running itself into the ground and thereby needing to sell off it's assets.

UA, DL, AA, US, EA and CO (with some exceptions) were essentially domestic airlines before PA imploded. Only PA and NW were international carriers prior to deregulation.

UA took what they got from the purchase of PA's pacific division in 1985 and grew their Pacific network. Their network from SFO and to a lesser extent LAX to Asia and Oceania is extremely enviable.

UA took what they got from the purchase of PA's LHR routes in 1990 and kicked off expansion to Europe. They have grown their presence at LHR despite not having a *Alliance partner hubbed there.

UA took what they got from the purchase of PA's Latin American routes in 1991 and expanded south. The MIA and JFK hubs didn't survive but the routes to South America gave UA a foot hold there. Despite having domestic hubs that didn't favor Latin America, they held on to their foothold until the merger with CO.

UA took what came out of the merger with CO and grew the international network even more.

PA never came close to what UA (DL and AA) has now. Good for UA. By comparison, look how AA squandered their purchase of TWA at JFK...


No worse than how BADLY United squandered its operation at MIA. Selective memory.


What operation at MIA? From memory the MIA “hub” inherited from PanAm had about 25 daily departures.

Without bothering to look it up, United must be almost as large at MIA now (or 2019 at least) as the peak of the “hub”.
 
lat41
Posts: 780
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 3:03 pm

When I think of Hawaii I still think of United Airlines DC-8s especially the Super 60s and later 70s. Arguably., the United DC-8 was a builder of contemporary Hawaiian tourist industry.
 
friendlyskies22
Posts: 111
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 3:09 pm

Does anyone know what equipment United used initially in its Hawaii service? I have seen old pictures of Boeing 377 Stratocruisers at SFO bound for Honolulu, so that’s my guess.
...
The UA launch aircraft on May 1, 1947 was the DC-6 SFO-HNL and was then the longest over-water commercial airline route. UA flew the 377 several years later on the route after purchasing 7 aircraft. The 377 had reliability issues (engines/props) and costs of operation were high. No 377's survive today.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 3:53 pm

lat41 wrote:
When I think of Hawaii I still think of United Airlines DC-8s especially the Super 60s and later 70s. Arguably., the United DC-8 was a builder of contemporary Hawaiian tourist industry.


Do you say this because their service frequency exceeded that of PAA 707/747? Major hotel construction was already well underway in the mid-1960s.
 
UA444
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 4:19 pm

tpaewr wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Continental Airlines launched Los Angeles to Hilo and Honolulu in 1964 or 1969?

https://aviation.hawaii.gov/pioneer-airlines/continental-airlines/


UA may have HI, not my focus.

But I always find it hilarious when UA trumpets its decades long service to Japan or Mexico ,etc. When it was really Continental. United had nothing till they pillaged PA dying corpse.

But to be fair DL does the same in Asia with NW.

CO was flying ERJ-135s into Mexico or island hoppers with 727s to islands with 17 people on them. Real impressive. UA took that PA Pacific network and European network and more than doubled both of them. PA could only dream of what it became today.

Meanwhile, CO tried to pillage UA after 9/11 and failed. Couldn’t get into LHR until Bermuda II. Ran from DEN. Brags about New Jersey being New York. Couldn’t even fly to Reno, Nevada. So bad, so sad.
 
travaz
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 5:00 pm

ATA code share with WN out of PHX LAS LAX and OAK. WN would fill the 757 and the flights were quite popular out of PHX ( I was working at PHX at the time) Interestingly WN to this day still owns the operating certificate and rights to all assets and logo's from ATA purchased for $7.5 Million. The last flight on ATA was the HNL PHX flight on April 3rd 2008.
 
mga707
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 7:59 pm

friendlyskies22 wrote:
Does anyone know what equipment United used initially in its Hawaii service? I have seen old pictures of Boeing 377 Stratocruisers at SFO bound for Honolulu, so that’s my guess.
...
The UA launch aircraft on May 1, 1947 was the DC-6 SFO-HNL and was then the longest over-water commercial airline route. UA flew the 377 several years later on the route after purchasing 7 aircraft. The 377 had reliability issues (engines/props) and costs of operation were high. No 377's survive today.


Correct. DC-6 for the first couple of years, then the 377 from 1950-54. Then UA replaced the Stratocruisers with new DC-7s and sold their small fleet of Boeings to B.O.A.C., who were already operating the type. UA used the 377s only on their Hawai'i routes from LAX and SFO, unlike Northwest, which used them on both domestic and transpacific routes. NW held onto theirs until 1960.
 
DenverTed
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: United Celebrates 75 Years to Hawaii

Fri May 06, 2022 8:06 pm

I believe UA flew ORD-ITO nonstop. What other nonstops, not from HNL to east of Mississippi have there been?
What are all the Hawaii nonstops UA has flown over the years?

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