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kabq737
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Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 1:30 pm

From The Aviation Herald:
“An Envoy Embraer ERJ-175, registration N233NN performing flight MQ-3729/AA-3729 from Charleston,SC to Dallas Ft. Worth,TX (USA), was enroute at FL360 almost overhead Birmingham,AL (USA) when the aircraft encountered moderate to severe turbulence, the crew subsequently issued a pilot's report and advised ATC they had lost part of a wing. The crew decided to divert to Birmingham for a safe landing on runway 24 about 35 minutes after leaving FL360.”

https://avherald.com/h?article=4f84e603&opt=0

This is certainly an interesting one. Makes me wonder how heavy the turbulence was. I’m sure there will be a lot of investigation in the coming days.
 
spottingBOG
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 2:21 pm

Wow. Never saw an aircraft lose a winglet mid-air before. Will be interesting to see how this goes for Embraer or whoever designed/installed them.

Enviado desde mi SM-G780G mediante Tapatalk
 
stlgph
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 3:09 pm

This will make for a fantastic scavenger hunt item.
 
KCaviator
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 6:39 pm

The extended winglets on the 175s are not small by any means. That's a significant piece of metal falling from the sky. Glad they're all safe.
 
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argentinevol98
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 7:01 pm

Does anyone know if this E175 had the larger winglets added aftermarket or straight from factory? It is a relatively young frame.
 
KCaviator
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 7:09 pm

argentinevol98 wrote:
Does anyone know if this E175 had the larger winglets added aftermarket or straight from factory? It is a relatively young frame.


There are no aftermarket winglets for the 175. All new 175s have the extended winglet straight from Brazil.
 
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argentinevol98
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 7:41 pm

KCaviator wrote:
argentinevol98 wrote:
Does anyone know if this E175 had the larger winglets added aftermarket or straight from factory? It is a relatively young frame.


There are no aftermarket winglets for the 175. All new 175s have the extended winglet straight from Brazil.


Thanks for the info. Wasn’t sure myself. Will be interesting to see what the investigation reveals.
Last edited by argentinevol98 on Wed May 04, 2022 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
trexel94
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 7:41 pm

kabq737 wrote:
From The Aviation Herald:
“An Envoy Embraer ERJ-175, registration N233NN performing flight MQ-3729/AA-3729 from Charleston,SC to Dallas Ft. Worth,TX (USA), was enroute at FL360 almost overhead Birmingham,AL (USA) when the aircraft encountered moderate to severe turbulence, the crew subsequently issued a pilot's report and advised ATC they had lost part of a wing. The crew decided to divert to Birmingham for a safe landing on runway 24 about 35 minutes after leaving FL360.”

https://avherald.com/h?article=4f84e603&opt=0

This is certainly an interesting one. Makes me wonder how heavy the turbulence was. I’m sure there will be a lot of investigation in the coming days.

That must have been unsettling to see as a passenger.
 
SEU
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 7:48 pm

How bad was the turbulence to sheer off a winglet? Surely the wing itself must have had damage beforehand ?
 
MDC862
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 8:02 pm

Uh, oh. Astro.

Looks like someone with an A&P will be getting some time off to "reflect" why it fell off.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 8:31 pm

Regardless of whether there was a mtx fault, or if somehow the winglet's ultimate loads were indeed exceeded.... it's worth noticing how cleanly it was designed to sheer off. That's a pretty significant accomplishment, in favor of safety.

Image
 
JohanTally
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 8:33 pm

I wonder if these winglets have a designed fail point when overstressed. These winglets are most likely CFRP with a metal leading eage.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 9:35 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Regardless of whether there was a mtx fault, or if somehow the winglet's ultimate loads were indeed exceeded.... it's worth noticing how cleanly it was designed to sheer off. That's a pretty significant accomplishment, in favor of safety.

Image

It would be interesting to see a straight-up shot; unfortunately, this point of view does not show how cleanly it was sheared off.
 
Newark727
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 9:56 pm

JohanTally wrote:
I wonder if these winglets have a designed fail point when overstressed. These winglets are most likely CFRP with a metal leading eage.


It wouldn't be unprecedented. The Grumman F8F Bearcat had wingtips designed to break away at a certain point when the airframe exceeded g limits, and that was in 1945.
 
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Web500sjc
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 10:03 pm

KCaviator wrote:
argentinevol98 wrote:
Does anyone know if this E175 had the larger winglets added aftermarket or straight from factory? It is a relatively young frame.


There are no aftermarket winglets for the 175. All new 175s have the extended winglet straight from Brazil.

At least 1xE175 was retrofitted with the larger winglets after delivery (N103SY). None of the American Eagle ones were retrofitted to my knowledge.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 10:22 pm

Of course the headline makers are really enjoying this one

"Plane loses wing at 36,000 feet!"
 
Cayden
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 10:43 pm

I flew into BHM this afternoon and saw it
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN ... GHh55i6kcm
 
KCaviator
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 10:54 pm

Web500sjc wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
argentinevol98 wrote:
Does anyone know if this E175 had the larger winglets added aftermarket or straight from factory? It is a relatively young frame.


There are no aftermarket winglets for the 175. All new 175s have the extended winglet straight from Brazil.

At least 1xE175 was retrofitted with the larger winglets after delivery (N103SY). None of the American Eagle ones were retrofitted to my knowledge.


Who retrofitted them though? My point was/is there is no third-party aftermarket winglet available that I'm aware of.
 
KCaviator
Posts: 423
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 10:56 pm

trexel94 wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
From The Aviation Herald:
“An Envoy Embraer ERJ-175, registration N233NN performing flight MQ-3729/AA-3729 from Charleston,SC to Dallas Ft. Worth,TX (USA), was enroute at FL360 almost overhead Birmingham,AL (USA) when the aircraft encountered moderate to severe turbulence, the crew subsequently issued a pilot's report and advised ATC they had lost part of a wing. The crew decided to divert to Birmingham for a safe landing on runway 24 about 35 minutes after leaving FL360.”

https://avherald.com/h?article=4f84e603&opt=0

This is certainly an interesting one. Makes me wonder how heavy the turbulence was. I’m sure there will be a lot of investigation in the coming days.

That must have been unsettling to see as a passenger.


Not going to lie, I'm a pilot on the 175, and if I was in a window seat and saw that I also would've sh** my pants.
 
FGITD
Posts: 2124
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 11:00 pm

KCaviator wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
From The Aviation Herald:
“An Envoy Embraer ERJ-175, registration N233NN performing flight MQ-3729/AA-3729 from Charleston,SC to Dallas Ft. Worth,TX (USA), was enroute at FL360 almost overhead Birmingham,AL (USA) when the aircraft encountered moderate to severe turbulence, the crew subsequently issued a pilot's report and advised ATC they had lost part of a wing. The crew decided to divert to Birmingham for a safe landing on runway 24 about 35 minutes after leaving FL360.”

https://avherald.com/h?article=4f84e603&opt=0

This is certainly an interesting one. Makes me wonder how heavy the turbulence was. I’m sure there will be a lot of investigation in the coming days.

That must have been unsettling to see as a passenger.


Not going to lie, I'm a pilot on the 175, and if I was in a window seat and saw that I also would've sh** my pants.



Absolutely. I’ve been in aviation for awhile and flown plenty of times, but if we’re bouncing around and I see parts falling off the wing, I’m going to start soliciting offers from various deities.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 11:24 pm

KCaviator wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
From The Aviation Herald:
“An Envoy Embraer ERJ-175, registration N233NN performing flight MQ-3729/AA-3729 from Charleston,SC to Dallas Ft. Worth,TX (USA), was enroute at FL360 almost overhead Birmingham,AL (USA) when the aircraft encountered moderate to severe turbulence, the crew subsequently issued a pilot's report and advised ATC they had lost part of a wing. The crew decided to divert to Birmingham for a safe landing on runway 24 about 35 minutes after leaving FL360.”

https://avherald.com/h?article=4f84e603&opt=0

This is certainly an interesting one. Makes me wonder how heavy the turbulence was. I’m sure there will be a lot of investigation in the coming days.

That must have been unsettling to see as a passenger.


Not going to lie, I'm a pilot on the 175, and if I was in a window seat and saw that I also would've sh** my pants.

Why? It’s just a winglet…not like it keeps the plane in the air. I’d be more concerned about what/who it might have landed on.
 
KCaviator
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 11:46 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
That must have been unsettling to see as a passenger.


Not going to lie, I'm a pilot on the 175, and if I was in a window seat and saw that I also would've sh** my pants.

Why? It’s just a winglet…not like it keeps the plane in the air. I’d be more concerned about what/who it might have landed on.


Ok
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Wed May 04, 2022 11:54 pm

KCaviator wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
KCaviator wrote:

Not going to lie, I'm a pilot on the 175, and if I was in a window seat and saw that I also would've sh** my pants.

Why? It’s just a winglet…not like it keeps the plane in the air. I’d be more concerned about what/who it might have landed on.


Ok

He’s partially correct.
It is not a control or lift surface area.
I remember correctly, there were many articles talking about this possibility when winglets started to appear, that were dismissed because it is not a lift or control surface. That if one did go on a flight of its own, that it was something easily handled by just a little more rudder.

This could be the result of nothing more than an old, undetected (or improperly inspected) bird strike.
 
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zeke
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 12:11 am

spottingBOG wrote:
Wow. Never saw an aircraft lose a winglet mid-air before. Will be interesting to see how this goes for Embraer or whoever designed/installed them.

Enviado desde mi SM-G780G mediante Tapatalk


The China Southern 738 crash had its winglet depart the aircraft as well.
 
9252fly
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 12:12 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
That must have been unsettling to see as a passenger.


Not going to lie, I'm a pilot on the 175, and if I was in a window seat and saw that I also would've sh** my pants.

Why? It’s just a winglet…not like it keeps the plane in the air. I’d be more concerned about what/who it might have landed on.


In all fairness, it's one thing to see it occur out the window at FL360 in turbulence and another to discuss it after the fact when the aircraft is safely on the ground.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 12:18 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
Why? It’s just a winglet…not like it keeps the plane in the air. I’d be more concerned about what/who it might have landed on.


Ok

He’s partially correct.
It is not a control or lift surface area.
I remember correctly, there were many articles talking about this possibility when winglets started to appear, that were dismissed because it is not a lift or control surface. That if one did go on a flight of its own, that it was something easily handled by just a little more rudder.

This could be the result of nothing more than an old, undetected (or improperly inspected) bird strike.


But Joe and Jane Normal in 15D don’t know that.

The pilots were sufficiently concerned to get the aircraft down at the closest available. Was that an overreaction? Possibly, but anyone can play quarterback on Monday morning.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 12:29 am

Cayden wrote:
I flew into BHM this afternoon and saw it
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN ... GHh55i6kcm


The link for the picture isn't working, but is it still parked at gate B5?
 
F9Animal
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 12:33 am

KCaviator wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
From The Aviation Herald:
“An Envoy Embraer ERJ-175, registration N233NN performing flight MQ-3729/AA-3729 from Charleston,SC to Dallas Ft. Worth,TX (USA), was enroute at FL360 almost overhead Birmingham,AL (USA) when the aircraft encountered moderate to severe turbulence, the crew subsequently issued a pilot's report and advised ATC they had lost part of a wing. The crew decided to divert to Birmingham for a safe landing on runway 24 about 35 minutes after leaving FL360.”

https://avherald.com/h?article=4f84e603&opt=0

This is certainly an interesting one. Makes me wonder how heavy the turbulence was. I’m sure there will be a lot of investigation in the coming days.

That must have been unsettling to see as a passenger.


Not going to lie, I'm a pilot on the 175, and if I was in a window seat and saw that I also would've sh** my pants.


I am pretty sure I too would have needed to change my pants!

I was on a 175 out of RNO about a year ago, and we hit severe turbulence. I wonder how severe it would have to be to shear a winglet like that? Wow! Our 175 handled it like a pro. While the guy sitting behind me yelled out to get the plane back on the ground, I held it together pretty good.
 
Cayden
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 4:25 am

gdavis003 wrote:
Cayden wrote:
I flew into BHM this afternoon and saw it
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN ... GHh55i6kcm


The link for the picture isn't working, but is it still parked at gate B5?

It is
 
 
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Jfoxwi78
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 5:32 am

I don’t envy the Envoy AOG team…even if there is a spare available somewhere - logistics will be an issue but I’m sure they’ll figure it out. All of the Envoy E175’s have the enhanced winglets. (I previously worked for the carrier that was flying the first 20 American Eagle 175s before they went to Envoy.) Anyhow, There are no aftermarket options for the enhanced winglets from what I recall - it was all done at the factory. I do recall there was an instance where an “original” 175 winglet had damage and had to be removed and there were ways to fly the plane with penalties but it was a lot to work through and it ended up being replaced in the city the plane was in.
 
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argentinevol98
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 5:41 am

Cayden wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/52051249366/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/195575321 ... ed-public/


Thanks for linking these photos. That's about as clean a break as possible. Certainly looks like it broke as likely designed to so as not to further damage the wing. I don't know enough about metalurgy or engineering to gather much else or clues to why it broke. Would be interesting if anyone has such insight based on the photos.
 
Fixinthe757
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 10:25 am

zeke wrote:
spottingBOG wrote:
Wow. Never saw an aircraft lose a winglet mid-air before. Will be interesting to see how this goes for Embraer or whoever designed/installed them.

Enviado desde mi SM-G780G mediante Tapatalk


The China Southern 738 crash had its winglet depart the aircraft as well.


The China Southern 738 had both its entire wings depart while in a nose dive!! Not exactly the same
 
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zeke
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 11:17 am

Fixinthe757 wrote:
The China Southern 738 had both its entire wings depart while in a nose dive!! Not exactly the same


That is not true, just a winglet was found 10 km from the crash site.
 
LTEN11
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 11:47 am

zeke wrote:
Fixinthe757 wrote:
The China Southern 738 had both its entire wings depart while in a nose dive!! Not exactly the same


That is not true, just a winglet was found 10 km from the crash site.


I thought it was just a metal strip off the winglet, not the whole winglet.

It was China Eastern, not China Southern.
 
visual8L
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 8:17 pm

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 12:26 pm

Related topic. Any YX guys here with info? Images of N416YX show original and then enhanced winglets.
I want to use the correct term - retrofit? In-house?
 
IWAflyer
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 1:32 pm

Jfoxwi78 wrote:
I previously worked for the carrier that was flying the first 20 American Eagle 175s before they went to Envoy.

Ayoo CPZ!

The non-EWT (legacy winglets) aircraft did have a CDL for removal of the winglet and its associated penalties, but the Enhanced winglets were significantly more because they had a greater surface area and more of an impact to drag reduction.

As for the Skywest retrofits, their original 175s were delivered with the old winglets. I believe they were retrofitted by Embraer in Nashville at EAMS (Embraer Aircraft Maintenance Services)
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Thu May 05, 2022 1:50 pm

argentinevol98 wrote:
Cayden wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/52051249366/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/195575321 ... ed-public/


Thanks for linking these photos. That's about as clean a break as possible. Certainly looks like it broke as likely designed to so as not to further damage the wing. I don't know enough about metalurgy or engineering to gather much else or clues to why it broke. Would be interesting if anyone has such insight based on the photos.

Indeed.
It looks too clean of a break to NOT have been designed this way.
 
rexchase12
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Fri May 06, 2022 12:16 am

Have they found the winglet?
 
744SPX
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Fri May 06, 2022 12:35 am

rexchase12 wrote:
Have they found the winglet?


I hope not.

Those E-Jet extended winglets are in a virtual tie with the 737 MAX "Advanced Technology Winglet" for butt-ugliest wingtip device of all time.
 
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hongkongflyer
Posts: 959
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Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Fri May 06, 2022 6:58 am

LTEN11 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Fixinthe757 wrote:
The China Southern 738 had both its entire wings depart while in a nose dive!! Not exactly the same


That is not true, just a winglet was found 10 km from the crash site.


I thought it was just a metal strip off the winglet, not the whole winglet.

It was China Eastern, not China Southern.


haha I am searching my brain to figure out when CZ did crash a 738.
 
Fixinthe757
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Fri May 06, 2022 10:18 am

Sorry, my mistake. Got confused. Dont live my life on anet...i just work on the jets
 
B757Forever
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 3:23 am

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Sun May 08, 2022 1:43 pm

This most likely will be attributed to insufficient / improper torque on the mount bolts possibly combined with insufficient run-on torque of the barrel nuts. A structurally sound winglet that is properly installed would not depart the aircraft even in moderate to high turbulence.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Sun May 08, 2022 2:02 pm

Embraer issued a service bulletin about winglet spar fatigue in 2018, it was slowly being complied with and Envoy had roughly 40 airplanes left to modify. These mods are now being sped up after this incident.

The theory is that the turbulence was caused by the winglet failing, not the weather.
 
gdavis003
Posts: 1466
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Mon May 09, 2022 2:32 am

Haven't seen it mentioned, but N233NN was ferried to ABI on Friday afternoon for the repairs.
 
battlegroup62
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:05 am

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Tue May 10, 2022 12:54 am

MLIAA wrote:
Embraer issued a service bulletin about winglet spar fatigue in 2018, it was slowly being complied with and Envoy had roughly 40 airplanes left to modify. These mods are now being sped up after this incident.

The theory is that the turbulence was caused by the winglet failing, not the weather.


I'd imagine if the failure was due to fatigue cracking in the winglet spar there will be fleetwide inspections due asap since it was a known issue, or the sb will become an AD.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Tue May 10, 2022 1:01 am

A missing winglet can be MEL’d, I’ve flown a couple planes configured that way. I’ve seen worse things.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Tue May 10, 2022 3:16 am

battlegroup62 wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
Embraer issued a service bulletin about winglet spar fatigue in 2018, it was slowly being complied with and Envoy had roughly 40 airplanes left to modify. These mods are now being sped up after this incident.

The theory is that the turbulence was caused by the winglet failing, not the weather.


I'd imagine if the failure was due to fatigue cracking in the winglet spar there will be fleetwide inspections due asap since it was a known issue, or the sb will become an AD.


They are ramping up inspections on these spurs, and replacing the remaining 40. This airplane was one of those.
 
battlegroup62
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:05 am

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Tue May 10, 2022 5:55 am

MLIAA wrote:

They are ramping up inspections on these spurs, and replacing the remaining 40. This airplane was one of those.


Hope the FEDs don't made it a grounded till inspected or repaired deal. With all the supply chain issues I doubt there are a ton of spare spar kits available plus it takes a good week to have 1 shipset off and on.
 
LTEN11
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Envoy E175 Drops Winglet in Turbulence

Tue May 10, 2022 7:01 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
A missing winglet can be MEL’d, I’ve flown a couple planes configured that way. I’ve seen worse things.


Sure when they are taken off on the ground by engineers, slightly different story when they come off in flight.

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