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nine4nine
Topic Author
Posts: 922
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 8:21 pm

Randomly clicked on FR24 and notice F91658 RDU-PWM looks like it’s rejected two landings and is on its 4th “s turn” lap holding at 5k off Cape Elizabeth.

Don’t believe wx to do anything with it DL5972 just scooted right in.


Curious……
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 8:35 pm

nine4nine wrote:
Randomly clicked on FR24 and notice F91658 RDU-PWM looks like it’s rejected two landings and is on its 4th “s turn” lap holding at 5k off Cape Elizabeth.

Don’t believe wx to do anything with it DL5972 just scooted right in.


Curious……


Looks like the weather conditions at PWM are bad. Foggy area right now. Lots of flights being cancelled or delayed.

It seems F91658 is landing now. DL5726 and UA3691 just had go arounds

Update: F9 just had a 3rd go around..
 
adipasqu
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:37 pm

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 8:44 pm

It's on the go again.
 
nine4nine
Topic Author
Posts: 922
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 8:45 pm

Awesome thanks. I see F9 just attempted again and aborted 3 attempt after 6 s turn circuits.

Must be pretty soupy.
 
adipasqu
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:37 pm

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 8:51 pm

nine4nine wrote:
Awesome thanks. I see F9 just attempted again and aborted 3 attempt after 6 s turn circuits.

Must be pretty soupy.


The METAR isn't the worst:

KPWM 041951Z 09006KT 2SM BR OVC003 09/08 A2998 RMK AO2 RAB06E36 SLP151 P0001 T00890083

...but not great either. They are trying to land RWY 18, which only has an RNAV. Those 300 ft ceilings are probably what is doing it as that is the minimum for the RNAV.
 
Karlsands
Posts: 249
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:53 pm

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 8:56 pm

looks like they may be headed to an alternate now, providence
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 840
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 8:59 pm

Below minimums on the GPS Rwy 18 - you need 500' ceilings unless approved for LPV minimums, which I doubt they are.

No ILS as Rwy 11/29 is closed.
 
KCaviator
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 9:10 pm

The runway construction project and subsequent closure of 11/29 has been causing all sorts of headaches up there. There isn't an ILS for 18/36, so when conditions get how they are today, things go downhill in a hurry.

I had a flight to PWM cancel a couple weeks ago because we couldn't legally depart due to the weather and the runway closure.
 
ScottB
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 9:15 pm

Karlsands wrote:
looks like they may be headed to an alternate now, providence


Kind of surprised they'd divert to PVD instead of BOS unless they don't think they can spare a gate at BOS. Maybe they figured they could get in and out of PVD more quickly. Weather doesn't look like it's going to change much at PWM for several hours.
 
Karlsands
Posts: 249
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Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 9:18 pm

ScottB wrote:
Karlsands wrote:
looks like they may be headed to an alternate now, providence


Kind of surprised they'd divert to PVD instead of BOS unless they don't think they can spare a gate at BOS. Maybe they figured they could get in and out of PVD more quickly. Weather doesn't look like it's going to change much at PWM for several hours.

I was wondering the same thing, must be the case !
 
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pwm2txlhopper
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:40 am

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 9:24 pm

I’m here at PWM watching operations on the secondary runway today, as the main runway is being reconstructed this month and all operations are using the shorter runway with no ILS. Only RNAV.

Invisibility is very poor today and there is no ILS in service at the moment. Or any approach lighting on the shorter Runway.

When the flight was doing the missed approaches the ceiling was less than 400 feet with less than a mile and a half visibility. I was listening to the live ATC and the pilot said he wasn’t trained for any RNAVs less than 477 feet ceiling. I don’t know much about RNAV approach is, but he also said they could fly the regular RNAV, but not LPV RNAV other flights were using. .

ScottB wrote:
Karlsands wrote:
looks like they may be headed to an alternate now, providence


Kind of surprised they'd divert to PVD instead of BOS unless they don't think they can spare a gate at BOS. Maybe they figured they could get in and out of PVD more quickly. Weather doesn't look like it's going to change much at PWM for several hours.

originally they filed to Philadelphia before they decided on PVD. PWM approach offered them clearance to PSM, MHT and BOS. At first they’d decided on PHL.
Last edited by pwm2txlhopper on Wed May 04, 2022 9:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:40 am

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 9:28 pm

KCaviator wrote:
The runway construction project and subsequent closure of 11/29 has been causing all sorts of headaches up there. There isn't an ILS for 18/36, so when conditions get how they are today, things go downhill in a hurry.

I had a flight to PWM cancel a couple weeks ago because we couldn't legally depart due to the weather and the runway closure.



Southwest gave me $1200 in travel vouchers at Baltimore last week when offered to give up my seat because of weight restrictions to Portland.

They needed 12 passengers to get off an exchange for a $900 voucher, and another voucher for the cost of your flight.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 2151
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 10:09 pm

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
I’m here at PWM watching operations on the secondary runway today, as the main runway is being reconstructed this month and all operations are using the shorter runway with no ILS. Only RNAV.

Invisibility is very poor today and there is no ILS in service at the moment. Or any approach lighting on the shorter Runway.

When the flight was doing the missed approaches the ceiling was less than 400 feet with less than a mile and a half visibility. I was listening to the live ATC and the pilot said he wasn’t trained for any RNAVs less than 477 feet ceiling. I don’t know much about RNAV approach is, but he also said they could fly the regular RNAV, but not LPV RNAV other flights were using. .

ScottB wrote:
Karlsands wrote:
looks like they may be headed to an alternate now, providence


Kind of surprised they'd divert to PVD instead of BOS unless they don't think they can spare a gate at BOS. Maybe they figured they could get in and out of PVD more quickly. Weather doesn't look like it's going to change much at PWM for several hours.

originally they filed to Philadelphia before they decided on PVD. PWM approach offered them clearance to PSM, MHT and BOS. At first they’d decided on PHL.

Lots of things for a dispatcher to consider in a situation like this…
Where to stop for a gas and go that has available staff, and available parking?
Where you won’t get stuck going back out because of an edict?

Fuel price (A REAL issue right now in the Northeast)

Where you have a more experienced Captain that can swap seats with the High Mins Captain currently on the flight, that still has available Duty Time?
 
KCaviator
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 10:52 pm

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
The runway construction project and subsequent closure of 11/29 has been causing all sorts of headaches up there. There isn't an ILS for 18/36, so when conditions get how they are today, things go downhill in a hurry.

I had a flight to PWM cancel a couple weeks ago because we couldn't legally depart due to the weather and the runway closure.



Southwest gave me $1200 in travel vouchers at Baltimore last week when offered to give up my seat because of weight restrictions to Portland.

They needed 12 passengers to get off an exchange for a $900 voucher, and another voucher for the cost of your flight.


Damn! While I know airlines have their own issues, this definitely isn't one of them. Hope they're being compensated somehow. Just wish the general flying public would understand when stuff like this happens.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7812
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 11:51 pm

ScottB wrote:
Karlsands wrote:
looks like they may be headed to an alternate now, providence


Kind of surprised they'd divert to PVD instead of BOS unless they don't think they can spare a gate at BOS. Maybe they figured they could get in and out of PVD more quickly. Weather doesn't look like it's going to change much at PWM for several hours.


In the end it looks like they're going back to RDU. The FIDS at PVD shows the segment to PWM as being cancelled although F9's flight status page is very confusing.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:40 am

Re: F91658 issue?

Wed May 04, 2022 11:55 pm

Theres been about four diversions today headed towards Portland. One to ALB. 1 or 2 to BOS, One to MHT at noon and that one still hasn't left for PWM.

ceilings have improved only moderately. We’ll have to see how tonight late night bank goes!
 
ScottB
Posts: 7812
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: F91658 issue?

Thu May 05, 2022 12:04 am

The passengers would have been a lot better-off with a diversion to BOS since the train up to Portland is $30. If F9 isn't stringing them along with a promise of getting to Portland by air, there's probably enough time to get up to Boston to catch the train.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:40 am

Re: F91658 issue?

Thu May 05, 2022 12:45 am

ScottB wrote:
The passengers would have been a lot better-off with a diversion to BOS since the train up to Portland is $30. If F9 isn't stringing them along with a promise of getting to Portland by air, there's probably enough time to get up to Boston to catch the train.



Then you have to Uber,taxi or get a shuttle to the subway. Then take the subway and make a connection to North Station. (with baggage on tow)

The bus runs every hour or two from Logan to Portland and is a half hour quicker than the train. About the same price.

i’ve been diverted to Boston from PWM before late at night due to similar conditions. It took them a while, but united found the bus to pick us up at BOS and take us to PWM at two in the morning
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3366
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: F91658 issue?

Thu May 05, 2022 1:29 pm

for F9 at BOS, since they use terminal E, they may not have access to it during the afternoon/evening hours when its needed for international

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