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sfojvjets
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Possible A220 Range Increase - Breeze Airways

Thu May 05, 2022 4:04 am

Hello,

Not sure if this is old news but...

I was doing a dummy booking from San Francisco to Tampa via Louisville for May 30th on Breeze's website.

https://www.flybreeze.com/booking/fligh ... 05/SFO/TPA

On the left of that page, it highlights some details about Breeze's A220-300s including a section on "Performance Data" which details a noted range of "3,912 nm" (nautical miles). (If someone wants to embed a screenshot of that figure go ahead since I haven't figured it out). As far as I'm aware, the stated range given by Airbus has been 3,450 nm:

Bringing together state-of-the-art aerodynamics, advanced materials and latest-generation technologies and engines, the A220 has a range of up to 3,450nm (6,390km), with an impressive environmental scorecard.

https://www.airbus.com/en/products-serv ... 0scorecard.

On one hand, the discrepancy between the stated range and the range on MX's website could absolutely be an error on the part of Breeze's website since it may just be a flat-out wrong number for the range. On the other hand, David Neeleman very clearly stated that he wanted to work with Airbus to increase the range of his 220s to 4,000 nmi and 3,912 is pretty close to that even 4,000 that he discussed wanting:

"The range of the aircraft is incredible. We're looking to even take that one step further, Jeff mentioned 3,400, we'd like to get closer to 4,000, and Rob's working on that. That's going to really be a game changer, even more than what we have today."

https://simpleflying.com/breeze-airways ... rbus-a220/

"It is under way, so we are ... kind of arguing about when. But it is not a matter of 'if,' it is just a matter of 'when'... We need to get up to 4,000 [nautical] miles”

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-05-21/

So is the range increase to 4,000-ish nautical miles finally happening? Or is this just a typo on Breeze's site?

Here's what 3,912 nm looks like from Breeze's BDL and TPA bases–Europe gets opened up to secondary points in the Northeast as well as Brazil from Florida.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3912nmi%40 ... =wls&DU=nm

I did not post this in the Breeze thread because if this goes through, obviously it won't necessarily apply to just 1 airline. Other A220 operators stand to gain from this as well, maybe just to a lesser extent than Breeze does.
 
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zeke
Posts: 17377
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Possible A220 Range Increase - Breeze Airways

Thu May 05, 2022 4:22 am

Might be the same number just one is maximum range to hold a 200 nm alternate and contingency/reserve where the other is the max range without an alternate.
 
SocalApproach
Posts: 288
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Re: Possible A220 Range Increase - Breeze Airways

Thu May 05, 2022 9:44 am

Me personally I don't get all the buzz about the range of the A220. That's all anyone talks about. Then I look at the range of the A319/319neo....I really don't get it. One thing that I never see mentioned is how that range would get affected with the extra fuel the plane would be carrying among other things like additional crew or provisioning for these fantasy 7 hour flights. Don't get me wrong, It's a great plane to fly on as a passenger. I've only experienced B6's A220. But my first impression was I didn't think think the plane was built to fly the pipedream routes Neelman and some A.netters like to throw around.

Some other things that have came to mind, As a passenger if I was on a 7+ hour flight on an A220 I would expect a meal service maybe even multiple depending on the time of the flight and the galley area didn't seem like it was designed for something like that. Granted I've only been on B6 so this is just my opinion. I'm sure the crew would like a place to get a break as well. I don't think the A220 has a crew rest facility. The A321LR doesn't either but it's a bigger aircraft so blocking seats out of inventory incurs a smaller penalty. Finally can the A220 carry any cargo? I'm very skeptical on a Breeze A220 making any revenue on flights with no cargo and 1/4 of their seats being blocked off for crew rest facilities. I would assume they get to rest in the "Nicest" seats but then again considering the pilots want a Union already maybe I wouldn't put it past Neelman to have crew sleeping in economy seats.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Possible A220 Range Increase - Breeze Airways

Thu May 05, 2022 2:56 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
Me personally I don't get all the buzz about the range of the A220. That's all anyone talks about. Then I look at the range of the A319/319neo....I really don't get it. One thing that I never see mentioned is how that range would get affected with the extra fuel the plane would be carrying among other things like additional crew or provisioning for these fantasy 7 hour flights. Don't get me wrong, It's a great plane to fly on as a passenger. I've only experienced B6's A220. But my first impression was I didn't think think the plane was built to fly the pipedream routes Neelman and some A.netters like to throw around.

Some other things that have came to mind, As a passenger if I was on a 7+ hour flight on an A220 I would expect a meal service maybe even multiple depending on the time of the flight and the galley area didn't seem like it was designed for something like that. Granted I've only been on B6 so this is just my opinion. I'm sure the crew would like a place to get a break as well. I don't think the A220 has a crew rest facility. The A321LR doesn't either but it's a bigger aircraft so blocking seats out of inventory incurs a smaller penalty. Finally can the A220 carry any cargo? I'm very skeptical on a Breeze A220 making any revenue on flights with no cargo and 1/4 of their seats being blocked off for crew rest facilities. I would assume they get to rest in the "Nicest" seats but then again considering the pilots want a Union already maybe I wouldn't put it past Neelman to have crew sleeping in economy seats.

The lower cost per flight of the A223 will open up more routes. The A319 used to fly Hawaii to US west coast and that was exciting.

When narrowbody range increases, so does service. Remember the threads about the A320CEO pre-engine PiPs and sharklets struggling with 162 seats to 156 to 150 seats? Improvements let them put back in the seats.

viewtopic.php?t=341585

This is exciting as a lower cost per flight enables more "long-thin" routes. Neeleman has always pushed narrowbody range profitably. Do not forget, multiple airlines have asked for an increase in A230 range:

Open link incognito (persistent cookies):
https://simpleflying.com/a220-range-increase/

Lightsaber
 
panam330
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: Possible A220 Range Increase - Breeze Airways

Thu May 05, 2022 7:08 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The A319 used to fly Hawaii to US west coast and that was exciting.

Who has ever flown the 319 on west coast-Hawaii? Was it VX? I didn't think any US airline had ETOPS-rated 319s.

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