More than 100 Passengers are barred from boarding connecting flight in Germany

alberchico · Tue May 10, 2022 1:12 pm

https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-k ... ver-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

bchandl · Tue May 10, 2022 1:28 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

Their rules, or the governments rules. You agree to abide by them when you bought the ticket. This really isn't about how you feel about masks at all, it's about the fact that you agreed to something in a contract when you bought the ticket and then didn't fulfil your end of the agreement.

Don't like it? Don't fly.

Don't comply? Don't fly.

It's really that simple.

RickNRoll · Tue May 10, 2022 1:29 pm

They weren't barred because they were Jewish. Any passenger that doesn't wear a mask doesn't fly on that airline.

santi319 · Tue May 10, 2022 1:38 pm

If you have ever been in a domestic US flight with similar groups during the pandemic, you know they absolutely refused to wear the masks, LH is in the right. Don’t want to wear a mask, charter a private plane.

WayexTDI · Tue May 10, 2022 1:38 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

Both articles mention that the mask mandate is still of German law; LH has to apply the rule.

For the past 2 years, it's been made very clear that you do as the business tells you to; decide to disobey and face the consequences. How hard is that?

Kiwirob · Tue May 10, 2022 2:01 pm

These people got what they deserved for not following the rules. I've been on Lufthansa several times during the pandemic, they are strict, you also had to wear them in Frankfurt and Munich airports.

adambrau · Tue May 10, 2022 2:10 pm

Masks are still mandated at JFK airport. So if you arrive on a domestic flight from most other US States you don't have to wear a mask on the plane. But getting off the plane at JFK and LGA the law says you have to wear the mask in those airports. Int'l flights to Europe still require masks be worn on board. Confusing - YES for most customers. Just another example of COVID inconsistency by our governments. Sensationalist media story....yawn

kameleonten · Tue May 10, 2022 2:29 pm

The person in clip obviously was not part of the group and the Lufthansa representative explicitly says that they are barring all Jews from the flight due to the actions of a few. That is nothing else than blatant antisemitism and Lufthansa should own up to this. In the US they would have been sued to the moon for this.

chunhimlai · Tue May 10, 2022 2:45 pm

The main question is that some of them violate the mask rule but all of them are barred

CMA727 · Tue May 10, 2022 3:15 pm

This incident shows the importance of global standarization of any international rule or internal policy and the quality of the way those rules and / or company policies are communicated to customers.

Heavierthanair · Tue May 10, 2022 3:19 pm

I guess it would have been relatively easy to identify the troublemakers of the incoming flight and stop them from getting onto the connecting flight. That they prevented the whole group of some 100 people from connecting indicates that something more than just 2 people not wearing masks was the reason for that decision. I seriously doubt Lufthansa would penalize a whole group for the misbehavior of two people, they are sensitive enough to be potentially being called antisemitic for holding up a group of 100 conservative Jews. Maybe we get to hear the full story on this :banghead:

Aaron747 · Tue May 10, 2022 3:22 pm

kameleonten wrote:
The person in clip obviously was not part of the group and the Lufthansa representative explicitly says that they are barring all Jews from the flight due to the actions of a few. That is nothing else than blatant antisemitism and Lufthansa should own up to this. In the US they would have been sued to the moon for this.

Jewish guy here - don't see anything remotely antisemitic here. LH was in the right.

DLPMMM · Tue May 10, 2022 3:34 pm

adambrau wrote:
Masks are still mandated at JFK airport. So if you arrive on a domestic flight from most other US States you don't have to wear a mask on the plane. But getting off the plane at JFK and LGA the law says you have to wear the mask in those airports. Int'l flights to Europe still require masks be worn on board. Confusing - YES for most customers. Just another example of COVID inconsistency by our governments. Sensationalist media story....yawn

Passengers on International flights to and from Europe on USA airlines are not required to wear masks.

My AA flight from Rome 10 days ago required a mask in the FCO airport, but once we were on board we were allowed to remove the mask for the duration.

BA also removed their masking requirement a few weeks ago.

tommyy · Tue May 10, 2022 3:35 pm

If a airline representative tells you that you cannot board a flight because you look Jewish and you are being punished because a few people who look like you did not wear a mask that is as antisemite as it comes, just replace the words “orthodox Jews” with “African-Americans” and everybody would’ve been on them for being racist

Aaron747 · Tue May 10, 2022 3:38 pm

tommyy wrote:
If a airline representative tells you that you cannot board a flight because you look Jewish and you are being punished because a few people who look like you did not wear a mask that is as antisemite as it comes, just replace the words “orthodox Jews” with “African-Americans” and everybody would’ve been on them for being racist

The reason isn't because 'you are Jewish' it's because you are in a large group of people who have already been identified as refusing mask rules. Not antisemitic.

al2637 · Tue May 10, 2022 3:45 pm

There is a longer explnation with video here:
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel ... ay-couple/

It's pretty shocking tho. People unrealted to the group were banned from flying

(it was posted here yesterday, but I can't find it now)

adambrau · Tue May 10, 2022 3:46 pm

DLPMMM wrote:
adambrau wrote:
Masks are still mandated at JFK airport. So if you arrive on a domestic flight from most other US States you don't have to wear a mask on the plane. But getting off the plane at JFK and LGA the law says you have to wear the mask in those airports. Int'l flights to Europe still require masks be worn on board. Confusing - YES for most customers. Just another example of COVID inconsistency by our governments. Sensationalist media story....yawn

Passengers on International flights to and from Europe on USA airlines are not required to wear masks.

My AA flight from Rome 10 days ago required a mask in the FCO airport, but once we were on board we were allowed to remove the mask for the duration.

BA also removed their masking requirement a few weeks ago.

Thanks for the correction.

At AF we still require a basic surgical mask to board and wear during the flight. All these different rules create confusion amongst the traveling public!

CrewBunk · Tue May 10, 2022 3:53 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
The reason isn't because 'you are Jewish' it's because you are in a large group of people who have already been identified as refusing mask rules. Not antisemitic.

I’m still a little mystified how someone “looks” Jewish. Did they have to drop their pants …. “yup, he can board”.

Was it the clothes they were wearing? Or could someone be an Orthodox Jew, but wearing Wranglers, T-shirt and boots ….. and be allowed to board?

B747forever · Tue May 10, 2022 4:53 pm

CrewBunk wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
The reason isn't because 'you are Jewish' it's because you are in a large group of people who have already been identified as refusing mask rules. Not antisemitic.

I’m still a little mystified how someone “looks” Jewish. Did they have to drop their pants …. “yup, he can board”.

Was it the clothes they were wearing? Or could someone be an Orthodox Jew, but wearing Wranglers, T-shirt and boots ….. and be allowed to board?

My understanding is that a few pax among 2 large groups all traveling JFK-FRA-BUD caused problems on the JFK-FRA leg. Thus, as is usually done when a few among a group are causing trouble, the airline ban the whole group from traveling, be it a religious, musical or sports group.

BTW, the mask rules are really confusing. Last week I traveled LAX-LAS-FRA-MUC-PAD, and no mask was needed at FRA/MUC, but onboard LAS-FRA-MUC-PAD flights you had to wear one. Go figure.

eta unknown · Tue May 10, 2022 4:57 pm

al2637 wrote:
There is a longer explnation with video here:
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel ... ay-couple/

It's pretty shocking tho. People unrealted to the group were banned from flying

(it was posted here yesterday, but I can't find it now)

You can't find it because it was reported and removed- the title was trolling. While we wait for the full story to come out, it could be possible this was one large group that was punished for the actions of a few members of their group... but we will see.

jmmadrid · Tue May 10, 2022 5:12 pm

DLPMMM wrote:
Passengers on International flights to and from Europe on USA airlines are not required to wear masks.

Are you 100% sure? Two friends flew ATL-MAD on Delta last week and they were reminded by the crew that face masks were mandatory during the flight.

sgbroimp · Tue May 10, 2022 5:17 pm

Here where I live some stores still require masks, though most not. Airlines and destinations, likewise. If you don't like it, buy (or fly) somewhere else. What's the big deal? We are now in a kind of transition period but it varies from country to country. Pack a mask and be ready, then glad if you don't have to wear it.

Revo1059 · Tue May 10, 2022 5:36 pm

This comment from the agent didn't help:

Video from the incident, posted online by DansDeals, shows a male passenger speaking with a female Lufthansa agent. The passenger insists that he was wearing a mask, and that nobody in his group of travelers had been maskless, but the Lufthansa agent tells him that Jewish people made the problem, and they all needed to 'pay' for the actions of a few of them.

RR757 · Tue May 10, 2022 5:36 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

As usual Sensationalist ‘journalism’ from both rags. Notice the mention of “Jews” and “Germany” in the same sentence. And here we are talking about it, giving free advertising to these tabloid rags.

Revo1059 · Tue May 10, 2022 6:04 pm

RR757 wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

As usual Sensationalist ‘journalism’ from both rags. Notice the mention of “Jews” and “Germany” in the same sentence. And here we are talking about it, giving free advertising to these tabloid rags.

Uhh, yeah because they are Jews, and they were in Germany

.......and the agent made the comment about it being the Jews fault. Should the article have been sanitized?

SQ22 · Tue May 10, 2022 6:05 pm

Please remember to provide a link to your source when stating facts or make it clear you are stating your opinion. Thanks.

usxguy · Tue May 10, 2022 6:14 pm

I've got to wonder, outloud, if everyone was on the same PNR or a group booking - therefore, all lumped together. Its not proper for an airline to just take everyone on a connection and assume they're all the same group without looking in the PNR and seeing the same travel agent/credit card used.

GlobalAirways · Tue May 10, 2022 6:17 pm

RR757 wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

As usual Sensationalist ‘journalism’ from both rags. Notice the mention of “Jews” and “Germany” in the same sentence. And here we are talking about it, giving free advertising to these tabloid rags.

Some lawsuits happen because policies and procedures at companies are interpreted or administered by employees in a way that unintentionally (for the company and possibly the employee) creates bias or discrimination against and individual or a group. This does appear that this "policy" targeted the whole group instead of just the individuals whom did not obey the rules based on appearance and perceived religious beliefs. What if a Representative from Lufthansa told 20 black people they couldn't travel on a connecting flight because one of them didn't wear a mask?

GlobalAirways · Tue May 10, 2022 6:19 pm

GlobalAirways wrote:
RR757 wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

As usual Sensationalist ‘journalism’ from both rags. Notice the mention of “Jews” and “Germany” in the same sentence. And here we are talking about it, giving free advertising to these tabloid rags.

Some lawsuits happen because policies and procedures at companies are interpreted or administered by employees in a way that unintentionally (for the company and possibly the employee) creates bias or discrimination against and individual or a group. This does appear that this "policy" targeted the whole group instead of just the individuals whom did not obey the rules based on appearance and perceived religious beliefs. What if a Representative from Lufthansa told 20 black people they couldn't travel on a connecting flight because one of them didn't wear a mask?

Sensationalist or not, it wasn't in the US, it was in Germany and it was involving Jewish people.

SurlyBonds · Tue May 10, 2022 6:36 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
The reason isn't because 'you are Jewish' it's because you are in a large group of people who have already been identified as refusing mask rules. Not antisemitic.

I think it's clear Lufthansa acted inappropriately here. The press articles linked above state that out of the entire group, two passengers refused to mask up. Lufthansa then punished the entire group, based primarily on Hasidic dress, rather than the two individuals involved. I say "primarily" because it gets worse: apparently some passengers unaffiliated with the group were also denied boarding.

SurlyBonds · Tue May 10, 2022 6:38 pm

GlobalAirways wrote:

Some lawsuits happen because policies and procedures at companies are interpreted or administered by employees in a way that unintentionally (for the company and possibly the employee) creates bias or discrimination against and individual or a group. This does appear that this "policy" targeted the whole group instead of just the individuals whom did not obey the rules based on appearance and perceived religious beliefs. What if a Representative from Lufthansa told 20 black people they couldn't travel on a connecting flight because one of them didn't wear a mask?

Sensationalist or not, it wasn't in the US, it was in Germany and it was involving Jewish people.

I agree. Does this portend the coming of the Fourth Reich? Of course not. Does it even mean there is widespread racism within Lufthansa? Probably not. But the airline clearly reacted inappropriately *to the specific situation at hand* by inflicting a collective punishment based on national and religious identity.

phugoid1982 · Tue May 10, 2022 6:49 pm

Seriously lame to pull the antisemitic card here. Lufthansa were in the right. Don't like it don't fly and the read the fine print next time you a buy ticket and when understanding travel policies during these unprecedented times.

maverick4002 · Tue May 10, 2022 7:16 pm

1) Orthodox Jews all dress the same dont they? I dont see anti-Semitism here. They are all Jews who dress, act and look the same way. Saying the Jewish people caused it to me obviously implies the Hasidic Jewish people, the ones who all are easily identifiable and look the same. And yes, unfortunately, if its a group of 100 it might be difficult to find exactly who it was so guess what, everyone is getting banned.

2) I flew JFK-AMS-JFK within the last 7 days. Going to Europe we had to wear masks in JFK, we got on the plane and we could take it off. The crew made it clear, multiple times, that once we are in the AMS terminal, we needed to wear the masks again. No need to wear it once you leave the airport.

Cardude2 · Tue May 10, 2022 7:46 pm

"Update, 5/10 at 11:10am ET: With mainstream media starting to pick up this story, Lufthansa has issued the following apology and statement. Unfortunately, they are still referring to denying “the large group” when in fact there were several dozen Jews on the flight who were denied boarding despite not being part of any group. This apology skirts the primary issue of racial profiling by Lufthansa employees.
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel ... ay-couple/

cpd · Tue May 10, 2022 8:21 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

It’s not messy, it’s the law and they should follow it just as I would have to.

It could have been handled better though.

travelsonic · Tue May 10, 2022 11:01 pm

cpd wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

It’s not messy, it’s the law .

... to kick people off who were allegedly not part of the group?

parrotta · Tue May 10, 2022 11:08 pm

We saw many opinions, but what happened with the 120? passengers? They could fly or got banned?

Aaron747 · Tue May 10, 2022 11:09 pm

travelsonic wrote:
cpd wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

It’s not messy, it’s the law .

... to kick people off who were allegedly not part of the group?

Don't know the specific EU rules, but airlines can deny boarding for almost any operational/safety reason. US regulations require a written explanation, and some basic compensation entitlements granted like reticketing or refund.

Remember: when we purchase a ticket, we are renting a seat in a vehicle. We don't own rights to that seat or vehicle, ever.

cpd · Tue May 10, 2022 11:43 pm

travelsonic wrote:
cpd wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

It’s not messy, it’s the law .

... to kick people off who were allegedly not part of the group?

You are selectively quoting just a part of my post to try and make out my view as something it isn't. Don't do that.

It could have been handled better by everyone.

MoreMiles · Tue May 10, 2022 11:58 pm

CMA727 wrote:
This incident shows the importance of global standarization of any international rule or internal policy and the quality of the way those rules and / or company policies are communicated to customers.

You do need standardized rules. Each country can govern their own. If you want to travel but fall into their jurisdiction, you must follow their laws. Here in Canada, we have a mask mandate for flying and we need to be vaccinated to fly. All are following the rules. All the information is available on their respective websites. Just read up before venturing.

AngMoh · Wed May 11, 2022 12:02 am

DLPMMM wrote:
adambrau wrote:
Masks are still mandated at JFK airport. So if you arrive on a domestic flight from most other US States you don't have to wear a mask on the plane. But getting off the plane at JFK and LGA the law says you have to wear the mask in those airports. Int'l flights to Europe still require masks be worn on board. Confusing - YES for most customers. Just another example of COVID inconsistency by our governments. Sensationalist media story....yawn

Passengers on International flights to and from Europe on USA airlines are not required to wear masks.

My AA flight from Rome 10 days ago required a mask in the FCO airport, but once we were on board we were allowed to remove the mask for the duration.

BA also removed their masking requirement a few weeks ago.

German law states that all passengers of flights in and out of Germany need to wear masks for the full duration of the flight regardless of airline. Some cities like Hamburg even require FFP2 masks for flight in, out and at venues in that state.

BawliBooch · Wed May 11, 2022 1:06 am

alberchico wrote:
https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/airline-kicks-over-100-nyc-orthodox-jews-off-flight-over-masks/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... masks.html

What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

Rules are Rules! You agreed to follow the rules when you bought the Ticket.

The passengers werent offloaded because of overbooking. They werent offloaded for being Jewish! They were offloaded for refusing to follow the rules!

Time to stop playing the religion card!

travelsonic · Wed May 11, 2022 1:23 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Rules are Rules! You agreed to follow the rules when you bought the Ticket.

*ALLEGEDLY* May of the people affected WEREN'T in non-compliance, and we do have a statement that at the least does not help LH allegedly made towards many of those denied boarding that doesn't really help the narrative that everyone denied boarding was in non-compliance. IDK, I think that either I'm missing something, or a lot of people here are either not reading, and drawing conclusions, OR just ... can't read.

BawliBooch wrote:
The passengers werent offloaded because of overbooking.

Who ... claimed they were?

zrs70 · Wed May 11, 2022 3:57 am

Really poorly handled.

I’m trying to think of other scenarios when a whole group is banned because of the actions of some.

Wasn’t there a party flight to Mexico a year ago where frat members were vaping and ignoring mask mandates. The entire group was banned from the airline, right?

TUGMASTER · Wed May 11, 2022 4:57 am

Change title of thread from “Orthodox Jews” to “passengers”please….
Can’t have all the weirdos on here jumping in the racism band wagon.

santi319 · Wed May 11, 2022 5:08 am

TUGMASTER wrote:
Change title of thread from “Orthodox Jews” to “passengers”please….
Can’t have all the weirdos on here jumping in the racism band wagon.

Agreed. Religion doesn’t exempt you from the rules. Follow them or don’t travel. Period.

ryanov · Wed May 11, 2022 5:55 am

alberchico wrote:
What a messy incident. Airlines really should stop being so strict with mask usage at this point anyway.

The only way you could possibly arrive at this conclusion is if the only news you read is this sort of stuff, and not any of the COVID numbers, or things that scientists or doctors have been saying recently.

I have read multiple doctors just today asking how we could possibly consider having crowded gatherings, or being on airplanes, buses, and trains without masks.

sixfootscream · Wed May 11, 2022 6:38 am

I hope this incident will make the federal government reconsider their ridiculous mask policy. Since this is a federal law.

In German airports you are not required to wear a mask but as soon as you board a German aircraft you need to wear one.

We Germans are very hesitant to drop the mask. Everyone around us does not require masks on planes anymore with the odd few exception and yet we still hang on to the masks.

I flew from FRA to LHR on BA and it was simply liberating not having to wear a mask on board the aircraft.

Lilienthal · Wed May 11, 2022 7:15 am

German Der Spiegel article, translated with deeply:

After dispute over masks
Jewish passengers denied flight - Lufthansa apologizes
Some Orthodox Jews had objected to Corona masks on a flight. According to current information, Lufthansa personnel subsequently excluded all recognizably Orthodox Jewish persons from the onward flight. The company is contrite.

An incident at Frankfurt Airport is now occupying Lufthansa's top management - and politicians. The airline has apologized for denying a larger number of Orthodox Jews onward flights from Frankfurt to Budapest last week.

"Lufthansa expressly apologizes to the guests," the airline said in a tweet published Tuesday. "The events are not in line with our values," the company added. Hesse's anti-Semitism commissioner, Uwe Becker, called on top management to take a stand.

The incident had occurred last Wednesday (May 4) in Frankfurt am Main. It was preceded by the repeated refusal of some passengers on the flight from New York to Frankfurt to wear masks to protect themselves against infection with the corona virus, even after the crew had asked them to do so. This is how Lufthansa described it.

The "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung", referring to a passenger on the Lufthansa plane from New York, wrote that all passengers who could be recognized as Jews by their hats and temple curls were excluded from further carriage - and not specifically those passengers who had misbehaved.

Clear words of the anti-Semitism representative
Tuesday's Lufthansa statement goes on to say that the incident is being taken very seriously and that intensive work is continuing to clarify the matter. "Regardless, we regret that the larger group was not allowed to continue their journey instead of limiting this decision to individuals."

Hesse's anti-Semitism commissioner said Tuesday evening that apparently an entire group of people had been blamed for something that apparently only affected individual travelers simply because of their identifiable faith.

"This is discriminatory and not a trivial matter, and all the more reason why the company's top management should also feel personally responsible for apologizing for this incident and taking a clear and unequivocal stand," Becker said. He said he would be happy to make himself available to Lufthansa for talks. "Something like this must not be repeated," said the anti-Semitism officer.

Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unter ... 8d51e7322e

Noshow · Wed May 11, 2022 8:41 am

So who did this? LH crew at the gate of the connecting flight? Airport crew? Would they ban all "jewish looking" passengers boarding a flight to Israel? How would this work?
I don't dispute the event it is just hard to imagine what exactly happened and why? If there are -say- two drunk young guys excluded from boarding a flight to Miami LH would never ever exclude ALL young guys from the same flight. Who decided "looking jewish" be the thing to look for? And who did this inspection?

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