Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
sxf24
Topic Author
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 11, 2022 6:01 pm

It appears the prior topic was removed. I think the announcement that Avianca and GOL’s shareholders will form a joint holding company was unexpected and it remains to been seen how they generate synergies. There are also interesting questions about how UA and AA’s ownerships stakes are impacted.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 022-05-11/
 
pipeafcr
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:47 am

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 6:17 pm

Abra Group
Avianca & subsidiaries, Gol, Viva Colombia & Peru, Sky Airline*

*Minority participation
**Pending govt. approval
 
onwFan
Posts: 787
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 6:37 pm

Given how the LAN-TAM merger created a giant in LATAM, it was inevitable that it triggers these mergers in the future. I see a trajectory similar to the one that happened in the US with DL/NW, UA/CO and AA/US. I bet Copa and Azul are already talking to each other - I guess they already were talking in the context of the four-way JV with UA (UA + AV + CM + AD) which had little chance of taking off.

I really doubt that both Sky & Viva will end up in the same entity - they will need to give up one. Sky would be a way better fit given the complementarity. It is ridiculous for AV to go after Viva with it already having 50% market share in Colombia. Given LATAM’s dominance in most of the markets, I don’t anticipate significant legal hurdles. Although, I think authorities will impose similar conditions to the LAN/TAM merger, that the airlines cannot have FF partnerships with both AA and UA, etc.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1805
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 7:08 pm

onwFan wrote:
Given how the LAN-TAM merger created a giant in LATAM, it was inevitable that it triggers these mergers in the future. I see a trajectory similar to the one that happened in the US with DL/NW, UA/CO and AA/US. I bet Copa and Azul are already talking to each other - I guess they already were talking in the context of the four-way JV with UA (UA + AV + CM + AD) which had little chance of taking off.

I really doubt that both Sky & Viva will end up in the same entity - they will need to give up one. Sky would be a way better fit given the complementarity. It is ridiculous for AV to go after Viva with it already having 50% market share in Colombia. Given LATAM’s dominance in most of the markets, I don’t anticipate significant legal hurdles. Although, I think authorities will impose similar conditions to the LAN/TAM merger, that the airlines cannot have FF partnerships with both AA and UA, etc.

I wonder what this would mean for Star Alliance, as United has a stake in Avianca, and I don't think they still have a stake in, but a very strong relationship with COPA, plus some codesharing with Azul. Skyteam is going to be at a disadvantage in South America, if no one merges with Aerolineas Argentina.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5483
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 7:41 pm

cosyr wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Given how the LAN-TAM merger created a giant in LATAM, it was inevitable that it triggers these mergers in the future. I see a trajectory similar to the one that happened in the US with DL/NW, UA/CO and AA/US. I bet Copa and Azul are already talking to each other - I guess they already were talking in the context of the four-way JV with UA (UA + AV + CM + AD) which had little chance of taking off.

I really doubt that both Sky & Viva will end up in the same entity - they will need to give up one. Sky would be a way better fit given the complementarity. It is ridiculous for AV to go after Viva with it already having 50% market share in Colombia. Given LATAM’s dominance in most of the markets, I don’t anticipate significant legal hurdles. Although, I think authorities will impose similar conditions to the LAN/TAM merger, that the airlines cannot have FF partnerships with both AA and UA, etc.

I wonder what this would mean for Star Alliance, as United has a stake in Avianca, and I don't think they still have a stake in, but a very strong relationship with COPA, plus some codesharing with Azul. Skyteam is going to be at a disadvantage in South America, if no one merges with Aerolineas Argentina.



In its present iteration (state owned, run by the unions, strongly linked to domestic politics, negative equity - losing billions) Aerolineas Argentinas is un-mergeable. Major surgery is needed before it can be attractive to a potential suitor.
 
sxf24
Topic Author
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 7:58 pm

dcajet wrote:
cosyr wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Given how the LAN-TAM merger created a giant in LATAM, it was inevitable that it triggers these mergers in the future. I see a trajectory similar to the one that happened in the US with DL/NW, UA/CO and AA/US. I bet Copa and Azul are already talking to each other - I guess they already were talking in the context of the four-way JV with UA (UA + AV + CM + AD) which had little chance of taking off.

I really doubt that both Sky & Viva will end up in the same entity - they will need to give up one. Sky would be a way better fit given the complementarity. It is ridiculous for AV to go after Viva with it already having 50% market share in Colombia. Given LATAM’s dominance in most of the markets, I don’t anticipate significant legal hurdles. Although, I think authorities will impose similar conditions to the LAN/TAM merger, that the airlines cannot have FF partnerships with both AA and UA, etc.

I wonder what this would mean for Star Alliance, as United has a stake in Avianca, and I don't think they still have a stake in, but a very strong relationship with COPA, plus some codesharing with Azul. Skyteam is going to be at a disadvantage in South America, if no one merges with Aerolineas Argentina.



In its present iteration (state owned, run by the unions, strongly linked to domestic politics, negative equity - losing billions) Aerolineas Argentinas is un-mergeable. Major surgery is needed before it can be attractive to a potential suitor.


I don’t see Aerolineas Argentina ever becoming privatized or merged. It is too integrated into the government.
 
Kilgen
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:56 am

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 8:02 pm

cosyr wrote:
I wonder what this would mean for Star Alliance, as United has a stake in Avianca, and I don't think they still have a stake in, but a very strong relationship with COPA, plus some codesharing with Azul. Skyteam is going to be at a disadvantage in South America, if no one merges with Aerolineas Argentina.


I don't think Skyteam will be at a disadvantage in South America, as DL owns 20% of LA. Wouldn't be surprised if LA joins Skyteam in the future.

The one that may be at a disadvantage is OneWorld. But then again, it may be possible that the new AV, G6 join OneWorld. If that is the case, then I can see a JV between UA, CM and AD forming quite quickly.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11169
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 8:05 pm

Kilgen wrote:
I don't think Skyteam will be at a disadvantage in South America, as DL owns 20% of LA. Wouldn't be surprised if LA joins Skyteam in the future.


I believe DL's LATAM stake is down to 10% following LA's bankruptcy restructuring.

https://news.delta.com/delta-fortifies- ... %20billion.

I won't predict whether 10% is enough to push LATAM into SkyTeam.
 
Kilgen
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:56 am

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 8:14 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
I don't think Skyteam will be at a disadvantage in South America, as DL owns 20% of LA. Wouldn't be surprised if LA joins Skyteam in the future.


I believe DL's LATAM stake is down to 10% following LA's bankruptcy restructuring.

https://news.delta.com/delta-fortifies- ... %20billion.

I won't predict whether 10% is enough to push LATAM into SkyTeam.


I think it is 20%, at least is what they say in their report from March 2022. From https://www.latamairlinesgroup.net/node/27906/html

The major shareholders of the Company are Delta Air Lines who owns 20% of the shares and the Cueto Group, which through the companies Costa Verde Aeronáutica S.A., Costa Verde Aeronáutica SpA, and Inv. Costa Verde Ltda y Cia at CPA., owns 16.39% of the shares issued by the Company.
 
Kilgen
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:56 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 11, 2022 8:21 pm

If the AV-G6 partnership goes through, will the new Abra group will also include Volaris in the future? As the Roberto Kriete owns 50% of Volaris.

Will that mean that most of the new low cost airlines will be tied up in one way or another: Viva, Volaris and Sky?
 
dcajet
Posts: 5483
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 8:33 pm

sxf24 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I wonder what this would mean for Star Alliance, as United has a stake in Avianca, and I don't think they still have a stake in, but a very strong relationship with COPA, plus some codesharing with Azul. Skyteam is going to be at a disadvantage in South America, if no one merges with Aerolineas Argentina.



In its present iteration (state owned, run by the unions, strongly linked to domestic politics, negative equity - losing billions) Aerolineas Argentinas is un-mergeable. Major surgery is needed before it can be attractive to a potential suitor.


I don’t see Aerolineas Argentina ever becoming privatized or merged. It is too integrated into the government.


Hey, if Air India, Alitalia and South African could, I say there is hope...
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4657
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 9:13 pm

Kilgen wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I wonder what this would mean for Star Alliance, as United has a stake in Avianca, and I don't think they still have a stake in, but a very strong relationship with COPA, plus some codesharing with Azul. Skyteam is going to be at a disadvantage in South America, if no one merges with Aerolineas Argentina.


I don't think Skyteam will be at a disadvantage in South America, as DL owns 20% of LA. Wouldn't be surprised if LA joins Skyteam in the future.

The one that may be at a disadvantage is OneWorld. But then again, it may be possible that the new AV, G6 join OneWorld. If that is the case, then I can see a JV between UA, CM and AD forming quite quickly.


I don't see what they would choose Star Alliance over an alliance with hubs in MAD and MIA, that would be dumb.
 
onwFan
Posts: 787
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 10:01 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I wonder what this would mean for Star Alliance, as United has a stake in Avianca, and I don't think they still have a stake in, but a very strong relationship with COPA, plus some codesharing with Azul. Skyteam is going to be at a disadvantage in South America, if no one merges with Aerolineas Argentina.


I don't think Skyteam will be at a disadvantage in South America, as DL owns 20% of LA. Wouldn't be surprised if LA joins Skyteam in the future.

The one that may be at a disadvantage is OneWorld. But then again, it may be possible that the new AV, G6 join OneWorld. If that is the case, then I can see a JV between UA, CM and AD forming quite quickly.


I don't see what they would choose Star Alliance over an alliance with hubs in MAD and MIA, that would be dumb.

On top of MAD, they will get feed at LHR (BA) and BCN (VY), which are their only other TATL destinations. On top of MIA, they fly their bulk of NYC operations to JFK (AA) vs UA’s EWR.

Either way, as far as UA is concerned, AV has always been the second fiddle to CM. While UA/CM codeshare on all routes to the US, UA does not codeshare on most of AV’s routes. Actually, UA added even more competing routes at LAX post covid. Given that UA, AD, CM and AV have been talking about a JV for like 5+ years, it is quite intriguing that AV decided to go with G3 instead if AD.
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Wed May 11, 2022 10:57 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I wonder what this would mean for Star Alliance, as United has a stake in Avianca, and I don't think they still have a stake in, but a very strong relationship with COPA, plus some codesharing with Azul. Skyteam is going to be at a disadvantage in South America, if no one merges with Aerolineas Argentina.


I don't think Skyteam will be at a disadvantage in South America, as DL owns 20% of LA. Wouldn't be surprised if LA joins Skyteam in the future.

The one that may be at a disadvantage is OneWorld. But then again, it may be possible that the new AV, G6 join OneWorld. If that is the case, then I can see a JV between UA, CM and AD forming quite quickly.


I don't see what they would choose Star Alliance over an alliance with hubs in MAD and MIA, that would be dumb.


I dunno, LATAM did it... Dunno how that's working out for them though.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 3145
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 11, 2022 11:22 pm

Just for the record, Avianca Brazil, when in operation, wasn't a part of Avianca but shared the name and the owner?

BTW, IMHO, AV+G3 will chose the alliance most convenient for them, be to remain in Star or join either SkyTeam or OneWorld.
Can't imagine a new AV+G3 as a alliance-free, promiscuous code-share-with-everybody airline.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4657
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Thu May 12, 2022 12:28 am

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Kilgen wrote:

I don't think Skyteam will be at a disadvantage in South America, as DL owns 20% of LA. Wouldn't be surprised if LA joins Skyteam in the future.

The one that may be at a disadvantage is OneWorld. But then again, it may be possible that the new AV, G6 join OneWorld. If that is the case, then I can see a JV between UA, CM and AD forming quite quickly.


I don't see what they would choose Star Alliance over an alliance with hubs in MAD and MIA, that would be dumb.


I dunno, LATAM did it... Dunno how that's working out for them though.


1.9B and a JV can overcome the obvious sometimes...
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4657
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: GOL, Avianca announce merger

Thu May 12, 2022 12:29 am

onwFan wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Kilgen wrote:

I don't think Skyteam will be at a disadvantage in South America, as DL owns 20% of LA. Wouldn't be surprised if LA joins Skyteam in the future.

The one that may be at a disadvantage is OneWorld. But then again, it may be possible that the new AV, G6 join OneWorld. If that is the case, then I can see a JV between UA, CM and AD forming quite quickly.


I don't see what they would choose Star Alliance over an alliance with hubs in MAD and MIA, that would be dumb.

On top of MAD, they will get feed at LHR (BA) and BCN (VY), which are their only other TATL destinations. On top of MIA, they fly their bulk of NYC operations to JFK (AA) vs UA’s EWR.

Either way, as far as UA is concerned, AV has always been the second fiddle to CM. While UA/CM codeshare on all routes to the US, UA does not codeshare on most of AV’s routes. Actually, UA added even more competing routes at LAX post covid. Given that UA, AD, CM and AV have been talking about a JV for like 5+ years, it is quite intriguing that AV decided to go with G3 instead if AD.


AV also flies to DFW not IAH. The hiccup would be their complete domination of the US-Colombia market, although NK's expansion might help them ease that through.
 
sxf24
Topic Author
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Thu May 12, 2022 12:50 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Just for the record, Avianca Brazil, when in operation, wasn't a part of Avianca but shared the name and the owner?

BTW, IMHO, AV+G3 will chose the alliance most convenient for them, be to remain in Star or join either SkyTeam or OneWorld.
Can't imagine a new AV+G3 as a alliance-free, promiscuous code-share-with-everybody airline.


From the PR, it seems like LifeMiles and Smiles will remain separate. While I think it makes sense to ultimately have one frequent flier program, multiple programs could enable different alliances.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 425
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Thu May 12, 2022 3:55 am

Avianca also has strong ties to Iberia, thats an important tie-up that adds to the oneworld prowess, along with connecting opportunities in MIA, JFK, and LHR.
 
User avatar
Aresxerexade
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:08 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Thu May 12, 2022 6:41 am

Does AA still have a minority stake in GOL?
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Thu May 12, 2022 11:48 am

There's more definitive room for Aerolineas Argentina to stay under the Delta umbrella since LATAM closed its Argentina division due to pandemic. Perhaps once Delta/LATAM JV gets final OK Aerolineas will play a larger role as an integral partner for that JV. Announcing anything now just saddles the JV with unnecessary scrutiny.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4657
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Thu May 12, 2022 12:16 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
There's more definitive room for Aerolineas Argentina to stay under the Delta umbrella since LATAM closed its Argentina division due to pandemic. Perhaps once Delta/LATAM JV gets final OK Aerolineas will play a larger role as an integral partner for that JV. Announcing anything now just saddles the JV with unnecessary scrutiny.


No they won't.
You can get to all major cities in Argentina via SCL - it is actually better as you never need to switch airports. EZE is too far south to be a useful connecting hub. The DL/AR relationship will stay as is.
Last edited by usflyer msp on Thu May 12, 2022 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
RDRogel
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:33 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Thu May 12, 2022 12:26 pm

If LATAM joins Skyteam, Aerolineas Argentinas has to leave that alliance and join Oneworld in order to fill the void in South America after LATAM left OW.
 
sxf24
Topic Author
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Thu May 12, 2022 12:31 pm

Aresxerexade wrote:
Does AA still have a minority stake in GOL?


Yes.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Fri May 13, 2022 1:32 am

usflyer msp wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
There's more definitive room for Aerolineas Argentina to s0
tay under the Delta umbrella since LATAM closed its Argentina division due to pandemic. Perhaps once Delta/LATAM JV gets final OK Aerolineas will play a larger role as an integral partner for that JV. Announcing anything now just saddles the JV with unnecessary scrutiny.


No they won't.
You can get to all major cities in Argentina via SCL - it is actually better as you never need to switch airports. EZE is too far south to be a useful connecting hub. The DL/AR relationship will stay as is.


EZE can be a competitive connecting point for intra-South American traffic flows that would otherwise be circuitous over SCL (think Brazil eastcoastal cities to Chile and Argentina). And that in and of itself is a competitive offering for an alliance frequent flyer base. So with all the impending consolidation and the possibility of a lost AR opportunity/alliance defection IMO there will be a more defined role for AR within the Delta/Latam construct.
 
EricThePilot
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 07, 2022 4:29 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Fri May 13, 2022 3:03 am

If GOL acquire by Avianca, will G3 have to dumb codeshare with AA and go for UA?
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1727
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Fri May 13, 2022 8:03 am

EricThePilot wrote:
If GOL acquire by Avianca, will G3 have to dumb codeshare with AA and go for UA?


You mean drop its codeshare? I imagine that it will go away by itself unless AV reaches an agreement with AA. DL and LA will need to have a good plan in place to retain share.
 
onwFan
Posts: 787
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Fri May 13, 2022 10:48 am

usdcaguy wrote:
EricThePilot wrote:
If GOL acquire by Avianca, will G3 have to dumb codeshare with AA and go for UA?


You mean drop its codeshare? I imagine that it will go away by itself unless AV reaches an agreement with AA. DL and LA will need to have a good plan in place to retain share.

If the point if this consolidation is to be competitive against LA, then they are not going to achieve that by dumping AA.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3908
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Fri May 13, 2022 2:02 pm

Well this is a surprise move certainly on brand with AV's new aggressive administration. I have absolutely no clue what AV or G3 bring to each other in terms of added value but good for them I guess. However, this will raise many concerns due to market concentration which will be addressed especially in Brazil and Colombia.
 
onwFan
Posts: 787
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Fri May 13, 2022 3:21 pm

RCS763AV wrote:
Well this is a surprise move certainly on brand with AV's new aggressive administration. I have absolutely no clue what AV or G3 bring to each other in terms of added value but good for them I guess. However, this will raise many concerns due to market concentration which will be addressed especially in Brazil and Colombia.

What market concentration in Brazil? AV and G3 do not overlap in even a single market to/from/within Brazil.

Colombia yes, but I really don’t see the value behind them buying Viva. They should rather go with Sky which would not have any anti-trust concerns. I certainly do not see both Viva and Sky under the same umbrella.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3908
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Tue May 17, 2022 8:56 am

onwFan wrote:
RCS763AV wrote:
Well this is a surprise move certainly on brand with AV's new aggressive administration. I have absolutely no clue what AV or G3 bring to each other in terms of added value but good for them I guess. However, this will raise many concerns due to market concentration which will be addressed especially in Brazil and Colombia.

What market concentration in Brazil? AV and G3 do not overlap in even a single market to/from/within Brazil.

Colombia yes, but I really don’t see the value behind them buying Viva. They should rather go with Sky which would not have any anti-trust concerns. I certainly do not see both Viva and Sky under the same umbrella.


Brazil-Colombia routes being overwhelmingly controlled by AV and now having a new nation-wide distribution network through GOL (think LA only flies GRU-BOG less than 2x daily, whilst AV/GR/VH will have BOG-GRU/GIG and MDE-GRU to themselves). A minority shareholding in SKY is also part of this transaction (40%).
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4657
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Tue May 17, 2022 1:50 pm

RCS763AV wrote:
onwFan wrote:
RCS763AV wrote:
Well this is a surprise move certainly on brand with AV's new aggressive administration. I have absolutely no clue what AV or G3 bring to each other in terms of added value but good for them I guess. However, this will raise many concerns due to market concentration which will be addressed especially in Brazil and Colombia.

What market concentration in Brazil? AV and G3 do not overlap in even a single market to/from/within Brazil.

Colombia yes, but I really don’t see the value behind them buying Viva. They should rather go with Sky which would not have any anti-trust concerns. I certainly do not see both Viva and Sky under the same umbrella.


Brazil-Colombia routes being overwhelmingly controlled by AV and now having a new nation-wide distribution network through GOL (think LA only flies GRU-BOG less than 2x daily, whilst AV/GR/VH will have BOG-GRU/GIG and MDE-GRU to themselves). A minority shareholding in SKY is also part of this transaction (40%).


Since G3 does not fly to Colombia at all, this transaction will not change anything. I don't see why either government would care.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3908
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Tue May 17, 2022 2:14 pm

It's not just about overlapping on specific routes but overall control of a certain market. The EU had things to say when BA/IB integrated as well as LX/OS/LH. We'll see.
 
JJ777
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 18, 2022 3:31 pm

EricThePilot wrote:
If GOL acquire by Avianca, will G3 have to dumb codeshare with AA and go for UA?


UA already owns a 8% stake at Azul, so G3 and UA are definitely not codesharing in the future, unless UA decides to dump AD, which I see as highly unlikely (in fact, it's been speculated that UA and AD are looking into deepening their collaboration).

More likely they try to keep the status quo of each separate entity for as long as they can. If they're forced to choose due to regulatory agencies, though, I think AV will just leave Star Alliance and go by the codesharing agreements G3 already has in place.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 2197
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 18, 2022 7:39 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
Just for the record, Avianca Brazil, when in operation, wasn't a part of Avianca but shared the name and the owner?


That's correct. OceanAir (dba Avianca Brasil) obtained brand licensing to fly with Avianca branding, but was 100% an independent company under the Synergy Group. There plans in the late 2010's to integrate into Avianca mainline, but those never materialized.
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 18, 2022 8:18 pm

JJ777 wrote:
EricThePilot wrote:
If GOL acquire by Avianca, will G3 have to dumb codeshare with AA and go for UA?


UA already owns a 8% stake at Azul, so G3 and UA are definitely not codesharing in the future, unless UA decides to dump AD, which I see as highly unlikely (in fact, it's been speculated that UA and AD are looking into deepening their collaboration).

More likely they try to keep the status quo of each separate entity for as long as they can. If they're forced to choose due to regulatory agencies, though, I think AV will just leave Star Alliance and go by the codesharing agreements G3 already has in place.

A (IMO, very potential--think about AV's partnerships with AM, IB, etc) South America where the only aligned carrier is Aerolíneas? Who would have thought that five years ago?
 
Kiwiandrew
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 18, 2022 9:26 pm

JJ777 wrote:
EricThePilot wrote:
If GOL acquire by Avianca, will G3 have to dumb codeshare with AA and go for UA?


UA already owns a 8% stake at Azul, so G3 and UA are definitely not codesharing in the future, unless UA decides to dump AD, which I see as highly unlikely (in fact, it's been speculated that UA and AD are looking into deepening their collaboration).

More likely they try to keep the status quo of each separate entity for as long as they can. If they're forced to choose due to regulatory agencies, though, I think AV will just leave Star Alliance and go by the codesharing agreements G3 already has in place.


I have to admit I didn't see Avianca/Gol coming. If anything, I would've expected ( and preferred) Avianca/Azul (maybe bringing Sky along as well? )
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4657
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 18, 2022 9:54 pm

At this point, we should probably expect a CM/AD merger announcement soon as well. Maybe throw in the Peruvian division of Sky or Jetsmart as well.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 3145
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 18, 2022 11:32 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
At this point, we should probably expect a CM/AD merger announcement soon as well. Maybe throw in the Peruvian division of Sky or Jetsmart as well.
If something was about to happen between CM and AD, IMHO, it's highly unlikely it'd be like AV-G3 to form a joint holding company.
CM and AD would be like: more code-share/interline, passengers from each airline FF being able to earn miles while flying on the other and perhaps, AD might look into flying VCP-PTY, not even CM buying into AD or the other way around.
Different situation than the future AV+G3, be that whichever airline coming out of the merger remains in Star Alliance or joins in Sky Team.
BTW, my guess is that that new AV-G3 might offer at least 2 key Brazil - Europe non-stop routes.
 
JJ777
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 18, 2022 11:36 pm

Kiwiandrew wrote:
JJ777 wrote:
EricThePilot wrote:
If GOL acquire by Avianca, will G3 have to dumb codeshare with AA and go for UA?


UA already owns a 8% stake at Azul, so G3 and UA are definitely not codesharing in the future, unless UA decides to dump AD, which I see as highly unlikely (in fact, it's been speculated that UA and AD are looking into deepening their collaboration).

More likely they try to keep the status quo of each separate entity for as long as they can. If they're forced to choose due to regulatory agencies, though, I think AV will just leave Star Alliance and go by the codesharing agreements G3 already has in place.


I have to admit I didn't see Avianca/Gol coming. If anything, I would've expected ( and preferred) Avianca/Azul (maybe bringing Sky along as well? )


AD/AV would have made a lot of sense, fleetwise and networkwise. But Azul was probably too busy pursuing their pipe dream of merging with LATAM or buying LATAM Brasil, so Avianca just had to settle for the next best bride available.

Now will Azul and Copa merge as some speculate here? They don't seem to be ideal partners considering they have totally different fleets and the considerable distance between Brazil and Panama, but I'm not sure there's much option for them now. That said, I could still see AD making a play for LATAM Brasil.
 
JJ777
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: GOL, Avianca to form joint holding company

Wed May 18, 2022 11:50 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
At this point, we should probably expect a CM/AD merger announcement soon as well. Maybe throw in the Peruvian division of Sky or Jetsmart as well.
If something was about to happen between CM and AD, IMHO, it's highly unlikely it'd be like AV-G3 to form a joint holding company.
CM and AD would be like: more code-share/interline, passengers from each airline FF being able to earn miles while flying on the other and perhaps, AD might look into flying VCP-PTY, not even CM buying into AD or the other way around.
Different situation than the future AV+G3, be that whichever airline coming out of the merger remains in Star Alliance or joins in Sky Team.
BTW, my guess is that that new AV-G3 might offer at least 2 key Brazil - Europe non-stop routes.


Can't really see it happening for as long as the current agreement between G3 and AF-KL is in place as they already fly so many frequencies from GRU, GIG and FOR. Plus. there's just so much competition on Brazil-Europe routes already (LA, TP, IAG, LH, LX, Air Europa, and soon there'll be ITA as well...) that I just can't see AV/G3 buying/leasing widebodies to fly to Europe.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos