Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
codc10 wrote:“Keep Spirit my Spirit”?
CRJ5000 wrote:They’ve put a website together urging Spirit shareholders to vote against the Frontier acquisition.
https://jetblueoffersmore.com/
BA744PHX wrote:Talking about last act of desperation on B6, time to let it go….
BA744PHX wrote:Talking about last act of desperation on B6, time to let it go….
NYCSKYGUY wrote:BA744PHX wrote:Talking about last act of desperation on B6, time to let it go….
Why would B6 let it go when there's another avenue to take and their offer makes sense? Money talks. If I were a Spirit shareholder I'd want a better explanation about why they're turning down a clear premium with $ set aside in case the deal doesn't go through. As B6 management explains, clearly the Spirit board REALLY has something in mind for itself with the Fontier deal (board seats etc).
tphuang wrote:I think there is a lot of bad blood between B6 and NK BOD and this is also about ruining NK/F9 merger.
NK BOD clearly does not want to get merged with B6.
BA744PHX wrote:Talking about last act of desperation on B6, time to let it go….
Runway765 wrote:tphuang wrote:I think there is a lot of bad blood between B6 and NK BOD and this is also about ruining NK/F9 merger.
NK BOD clearly does not want to get merged with B6.
F9/NK is FAR better for consumers than B6/NK. We know the motives of B6 here, so I would absolutely deny B6/NK if I were the DOJ.
Runway765 wrote:tphuang wrote:I think there is a lot of bad blood between B6 and NK BOD and this is also about ruining NK/F9 merger.
NK BOD clearly does not want to get merged with B6.
F9/NK is FAR better for consumers than B6/NK. We know the motives of B6 here, so I would absolutely deny B6/NK if I were the DOJ.
tphuang wrote:Runway765 wrote:tphuang wrote:I think there is a lot of bad blood between B6 and NK BOD and this is also about ruining NK/F9 merger.
NK BOD clearly does not want to get merged with B6.
F9/NK is FAR better for consumers than B6/NK. We know the motives of B6 here, so I would absolutely deny B6/NK if I were the DOJ.
What does DOJ have anything to do with this? This is a proposal to NK shareholders.
tphuang wrote:I think there is a lot of bad blood between B6 and NK BOD and this is also about ruining NK/F9 merger.
NK BOD clearly does not want to get merged with B6.
trueblew wrote:Runway765 wrote:tphuang wrote:I think there is a lot of bad blood between B6 and NK BOD and this is also about ruining NK/F9 merger.
NK BOD clearly does not want to get merged with B6.
F9/NK is FAR better for consumers than B6/NK. We know the motives of B6 here, so I would absolutely deny B6/NK if I were the DOJ.
Frontier eliminating their largest competitor and gaining greater ability to raise their fares is far better for consumers?
Mainland wrote:So, all things remaining equal, I think there are three options for JetBlue as it comes to this vote...
1. Find a Spirit shareholder that wants the JetBlue offer so bad that it wages a proxy contest. Spirit shareholders would then get one set of proxy materials from the company, not unlike what they're preparing to send out, asking shareholders to support the deal. The dissident shareholder would send out a bunch of similar proxy materials asking shareholders to vote against the merger. Proxy contests are costly though. And to do one, you have to be a shareholder, but since we haven't heard public dissent from any Spirit shareholders this seems like a low likelihood outcome.
2. Spirit proceeds and sets a date to vote on the Frontier merger. JetBlue takes their case to Spirit shareholders by urging them to vote against the Frontier merger - a "vote no campaign". They really ramp up the public case for Spirit shareholders to turn down the Frontier deal to try and win over large institutions, and ma and pa shareholders, to vote against. Cheaper - but less bang for the buck of a proxy contest.
3. Launch a tender offer to buy up Spirit shares - another tactic to take their case direct to Spirit shareholders. Tender offers typically need around 30 days from announcement to completion (the "tendering" of shares). This isn't a slam dunk tactic itself. You might sway smaller retail shareholders, but to go this route you probably want to know you have good odds of getting at least 50 percent of Spirit shares outstanding to tender (and hopefully much more). If Sprit's larger shareholders don't feel compelled by the JetBlue offer, they're probably not likely to just tender their shares.
Of course, the other option outside of the vote is for JetBlue to make additional changes to its standing offer to quell Spirit's stated concerns.
cloudboy wrote:Do you think they are desperate to get more space at FLL?
CALMSP wrote:cloudboy wrote:Do you think they are desperate to get more space at FLL?
really has nothing to do with FLL. Its about eliminating a competitor in an attempt to raise prices/revenue. Thats what mergers are all about.
trueblew wrote:Runway765 wrote:tphuang wrote:I think there is a lot of bad blood between B6 and NK BOD and this is also about ruining NK/F9 merger.
NK BOD clearly does not want to get merged with B6.
F9/NK is FAR better for consumers than B6/NK. We know the motives of B6 here, so I would absolutely deny B6/NK if I were the DOJ.
Frontier eliminating their largest competitor and gaining greater ability to raise their fares is far better for consumers?
trueblew wrote:Runway765 wrote:tphuang wrote:I think there is a lot of bad blood between B6 and NK BOD and this is also about ruining NK/F9 merger.
NK BOD clearly does not want to get merged with B6.
F9/NK is FAR better for consumers than B6/NK. We know the motives of B6 here, so I would absolutely deny B6/NK if I were the DOJ.
Frontier eliminating their largest competitor and gaining greater ability to raise their fares is far better for consumers?
Midwestindy wrote:trueblew wrote:Runway765 wrote:
F9/NK is FAR better for consumers than B6/NK. We know the motives of B6 here, so I would absolutely deny B6/NK if I were the DOJ.
Frontier eliminating their largest competitor and gaining greater ability to raise their fares is far better for consumers?
.......In this case yes
fastmover wrote:Midwestindy wrote:trueblew wrote:
Frontier eliminating their largest competitor and gaining greater ability to raise their fares is far better for consumers?
.......In this case yes
How? One ulcc is eliminating the other Ulcc. Why would they keep prices down if the direct competitor is gone (they won’t)
(Respectfully)
Let all be real the merger from either blue or f9 eliminates competition.
fastmover wrote:Midwestindy wrote:trueblew wrote:
Frontier eliminating their largest competitor and gaining greater ability to raise their fares is far better for consumers?
.......In this case yes
How? One ulcc is eliminating the other Ulcc. Why would they keep prices down if the direct competitor is gone (they won’t)
(Respectfully)
Let all be real the merger from either blue or f9 eliminates competition.
sxf24 wrote:fastmover wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
.......In this case yes
How? One ulcc is eliminating the other Ulcc. Why would they keep prices down if the direct competitor is gone (they won’t)
(Respectfully)
Let all be real the merger from either blue or f9 eliminates competition.
I think the F9/NK argument is there are limited markets where they overlap and when they do, their combined share is far less than other, higher cost airlines. Therefore, the only way for them to continue growing is to stimulate traffic and/or take share with lower fares.
Midwestindy wrote:fastmover wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
.......In this case yes
How? One ulcc is eliminating the other Ulcc. Why would they keep prices down if the direct competitor is gone (they won’t)
(Respectfully)
Let all be real the merger from either blue or f9 eliminates competition.
It's pretty simple, F9+NK keeps the same level of ULCC market share. NK+B6 eliminates millions of ULCC seats.
B6's counter argument to this is hilarious. They even brought up that Midwest Express is potentially restarting, so basically the ULCC market will be unchanged I guess
fastmover wrote:Midwestindy wrote:fastmover wrote:
How? One ulcc is eliminating the other Ulcc. Why would they keep prices down if the direct competitor is gone (they won’t)
(Respectfully)
Let all be real the merger from either blue or f9 eliminates competition.
It's pretty simple, F9+NK keeps the same level of ULCC market share. NK+B6 eliminates millions of ULCC seats.
B6's counter argument to this is hilarious. They even brought up that Midwest Express is potentially restarting, so basically the ULCC market will be unchanged I guess
Ok let’s make up an example.
F9 and spirit both fly let’s say FLL to Tampa. They keep each other in check price wise. Spirit has 10% of the route F9 10%
They merge now 1 ulcc has 20% but got rid of the airline that checked it’s prices. Are you going to tell me they won’t raise prices? Come on.
usflyer msp wrote:sxf24 wrote:fastmover wrote:
How? One ulcc is eliminating the other Ulcc. Why would they keep prices down if the direct competitor is gone (they won’t)
(Respectfully)
Let all be real the merger from either blue or f9 eliminates competition.
I think the F9/NK argument is there are limited markets where they overlap and when they do, their combined share is far less than other, higher cost airlines. Therefore, the only way for them to continue growing is to stimulate traffic and/or take share with lower fares.
Plus it is pretty obvious that B6 plans on n dismantling large parts of NK's network, so many routes will be left with no ULCC service after a B6 merger.
santi319 wrote:fastmover wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
It's pretty simple, F9+NK keeps the same level of ULCC market share. NK+B6 eliminates millions of ULCC seats.
B6's counter argument to this is hilarious. They even brought up that Midwest Express is potentially restarting, so basically the ULCC market will be unchanged I guess
Ok let’s make up an example.
F9 and spirit both fly let’s say FLL to Tampa. They keep each other in check price wise. Spirit has 10% of the route F9 10%
They merge now 1 ulcc has 20% but got rid of the airline that checked it’s prices. Are you going to tell me they won’t raise prices? Come on.
Exactly they are delusional, either way there is less competition. Perhaps with a B6/NK tie up we would be on the verge of a true full service carrier eventually with a massive network. I always thought the US having only 3 legacies was too little as opossed of the days they had 6….
fastmover wrote:Midwestindy wrote:fastmover wrote:
How? One ulcc is eliminating the other Ulcc. Why would they keep prices down if the direct competitor is gone (they won’t)
(Respectfully)
Let all be real the merger from either blue or f9 eliminates competition.
It's pretty simple, F9+NK keeps the same level of ULCC market share. NK+B6 eliminates millions of ULCC seats.
B6's counter argument to this is hilarious. They even brought up that Midwest Express is potentially restarting, so basically the ULCC market will be unchanged I guess
Ok let’s make up an example.
F9 and spirit both fly let’s say FLL to Tampa. They keep each other in check price wise. Spirit has 10% of the route F9 10%
They merge now 1 ulcc has 20% but got rid of the airline that checked it’s prices. Are you going to tell me they won’t raise prices? Come on.
But let’s say b6 F9 and Spirit all flew to Tampa B6 buying Spirt still leaves a ulcc
Ask yourself a simple question: why won’t the Spirit Board engage with us constructively?
The interests of Bill Franke’s Indigo Partners and the long-standing relationships between the two companies is the obvious answer.
fastmover wrote:Midwestindy wrote:fastmover wrote:
How? One ulcc is eliminating the other Ulcc. Why would they keep prices down if the direct competitor is gone (they won’t)
(Respectfully)
Let all be real the merger from either blue or f9 eliminates competition.
It's pretty simple, F9+NK keeps the same level of ULCC market share. NK+B6 eliminates millions of ULCC seats.
B6's counter argument to this is hilarious. They even brought up that Midwest Express is potentially restarting, so basically the ULCC market will be unchanged I guess
Ok let’s make up an example.
F9 and spirit both fly let’s say FLL to Tampa. They keep each other in check price wise. Spirit has 10% of the route F9 10%
They merge now 1 ulcc has 20% but got rid of the airline that checked it’s prices. Are you going to tell me they won’t raise prices? Come on.
But let’s say b6 F9 and Spirit all flew to Tampa B6 buying Spirt still leaves a ulcc
sxf24 wrote:tphuang wrote:Runway765 wrote:
F9/NK is FAR better for consumers than B6/NK. We know the motives of B6 here, so I would absolutely deny B6/NK if I were the DOJ.
What does DOJ have anything to do with this? This is a proposal to NK shareholders.
DOJ reviews the merger and their assessment is highly relevant.
VS11 wrote:Eliminating a competitor is not really a true argument here. All airlines essentially offer the Spirit/Frontier product as a basic economy fare - this has been going on for years. Just a random search BOS-FLL for Sat June 25 gives you:
Non-stops:
Spirit - $217
Delta - $234
jetBlue - $199
1-stop
United - $238
AA - $267
https://www.kayak.com/flights/BOS-FLL/2 ... stflight_a
Even without Spirit, there will be enough basic economy fare competition.
tphuang wrote:sxf24 wrote:tphuang wrote:
What does DOJ have anything to do with this? This is a proposal to NK shareholders.
DOJ reviews the merger and their assessment is highly relevant.
In this case, if shareholders don't like F9's offer, they can just reject it. DOJ's preference is not applicable. Shareholders will get a say in this matter.
Midwestindy wrote:VS11 wrote:Eliminating a competitor is not really a true argument here. All airlines essentially offer the Spirit/Frontier product as a basic economy fare - this has been going on for years. Just a random search BOS-FLL for Sat June 25 gives you:
Non-stops:
Spirit - $217
Delta - $234
jetBlue - $199
1-stop
United - $238
AA - $267
https://www.kayak.com/flights/BOS-FLL/2 ... stflight_a
Even without Spirit, there will be enough basic economy fare competition.
a) The fares on 1-2-3-4-5-e.t.c. routes does not determine the overall makeup of the market
b) You accidentally raised a valid counterargument:
Basic economy fares were introduced for the expressed intention to compete with NK (and other ULCCs).....
https://www.npr.org/2016/12/12/50501524 ... t-airlines
Why would airlines continue to offer fares on certain routes that were made to compete with ULCCs, if ULCCs no longer exist on those routes?
santi319 wrote:fastmover wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
It's pretty simple, F9+NK keeps the same level of ULCC market share. NK+B6 eliminates millions of ULCC seats.
B6's counter argument to this is hilarious. They even brought up that Midwest Express is potentially restarting, so basically the ULCC market will be unchanged I guess
Ok let’s make up an example.
F9 and spirit both fly let’s say FLL to Tampa. They keep each other in check price wise. Spirit has 10% of the route F9 10%
They merge now 1 ulcc has 20% but got rid of the airline that checked it’s prices. Are you going to tell me they won’t raise prices? Come on.
Exactly they are delusional, either way there is less competition. Perhaps with a B6/NK tie up we would be on the verge of a true full service carrier eventually with a massive network. I always thought the US having only 3 legacies was too little as opossed of the days they had 6….
fastmover wrote:Ok let’s make up an example.
F9 and spirit both fly let’s say FLL to Tampa. They keep each other in check price wise. Spirit has 10% of the route F9 10%
They merge now 1 ulcc has 20% but got rid of the airline that checked it’s prices. Are you going to tell me they won’t raise prices? Come on.
But let’s say b6 F9 and Spirit all flew to Tampa B6 buying Spirt still leaves a ulcc
tphuang wrote:What does DOJ have anything to do with this? This is a proposal to NK shareholders.
DLASFlyer wrote:Mods closing the last thread has inspired JetBlue to make a new offer for Spirit. $30 a share all cash, financed offer.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/16/jetblue ... lines.html
VS11 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:VS11 wrote:Eliminating a competitor is not really a true argument here. All airlines essentially offer the Spirit/Frontier product as a basic economy fare - this has been going on for years. Just a random search BOS-FLL for Sat June 25 gives you:
Non-stops:
Spirit - $217
Delta - $234
jetBlue - $199
1-stop
United - $238
AA - $267
https://www.kayak.com/flights/BOS-FLL/2 ... stflight_a
Even without Spirit, there will be enough basic economy fare competition.
a) The fares on 1-2-3-4-5-e.t.c. routes does not determine the overall makeup of the market
b) You accidentally raised a valid counterargument:
Basic economy fares were introduced for the expressed intention to compete with NK (and other ULCCs).....
https://www.npr.org/2016/12/12/50501524 ... t-airlines
Why would airlines continue to offer fares on certain routes that were made to compete with ULCCs, if ULCCs no longer exist on those routes?
Re: a). Sure. But the point was that basic economy is offered by all carriers. It is not going to go away.
b) Airlines will continue to offer it as there is obviously demand for it. I would guess it is a profitable fare bucket as most people do travel with bags and end up paying for bags and other perks. The basic fare is really just a way to lure people to travel. Once you lock them in with a ticket, it is almost a given they will end up spending more - bags and/or seats and/or food/drink on board.
Shanasta wrote:Just spit balling here, but do you think a B6/NK merger would have B6 continuing their cargo program?
Midwestindy wrote:fastmover wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
.......In this case yes
How? One ulcc is eliminating the other Ulcc. Why would they keep prices down if the direct competitor is gone (they won’t)
(Respectfully)
Let all be real the merger from either blue or f9 eliminates competition.
It's pretty simple, F9+NK keeps the same level of ULCC market share. NK+B6 eliminates millions of ULCC seats.
B6's counter argument to this is hilarious. They even brought up that Midwest Express is potentially restarting, so basically the ULCC market will be unchanged I guess