Reported the Biden administration will ease some air travel restrictions on Cuba.

Per the State Department, it will again authorize scheduled and charter flights to use airports other than Havana, and reinstate some categories of group educational travel, as well as certain travel related to professional meetings and research.

Individual "people-to-people" travel, however, will not be reinstated. The category was eliminated as it was largely used by Americans to take beach vacations.


https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/ ... 022-05-16/

=

Not sure this will create much-added travel demand beyond allowing some of the VFR Havana-only flights to serve other provinces.

It’s an honor system and not enforced, you literally get the visa at the airport at check in. People will still take their beach vacations by checking another box.

MAH4546 wrote:

It’s an honor system and not enforced, you literally get the visa at the airport at check in. People will still take their beach vacations by checking another box.

And your point is?

airlinepeanuts wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

It’s an honor system and not enforced, you literally get the visa at the airport at check in. People will still take their beach vacations by checking another box.

And your point is?

It's just another pointless thing Washington has done.

For quite some time, U.S. citizens have been able to travel to Cuba through other countries. The announcement is more for Cubans looking to go to other Cuban cities non-stop from the states.

MAH4546 wrote:

It’s an honor system and not enforced, you literally get the visa at the airport at check in. People will still take their beach vacations by checking another box.

Just remove all restrictions and let Americans go to Cuba if they want without playing some stupid game.

I don't see this changing much in the way of flights between the US and Cuba other than for AA @ MIA. They might re-add VRA, HOG, etc. I don't see anyone else trying secondary Cuban airports, especially now.

what exactly is the point of the mess the US and Cuba have created for travel between the two nations.
Canada and Europe, both nations not too friendly to Cuba's government have zero problems with tourist and VFR travel, there are dozens of flights a day from Cuba to western Europe and Canada full of tourists. why is the US so special about this.

Swiss03 wrote:

what exactly is the point of the mess the US and Cuba have created for travel between the two nations.
Canada and Europe, both nations not too friendly to Cuba's government have zero problems with tourist and VFR travel, there are dozens of flights a day from Cuba to western Europe and Canada full of tourists. why is the US so special about this.

Simple answer...it gets, or loses, votes in South Florida

BuildingMyBento wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

It’s an honor system and not enforced, you literally get the visa at the airport at check in. People will still take their beach vacations by checking another box.

And your point is?

It's just another pointless thing Washington has done.

For quite some time, U.S. citizens have been able to travel to Cuba through other countries. The announcement is more for Cubans looking to go to other Cuban cities non-stop from the states.

As someone who worked on successfully introducing flights during the Obama admin's lifting of restrictions, I can tell you it's far more than that. It's tied to trade opportunities on both sides, and provides certain securities to U.S. residents traveling to Cuba, particularly those with family in the country.

It was a successful program prior to Marco Rubio's negotiation with the Trump administration to reverse it.

Swiss03 wrote:

what exactly is the point of the mess the US and Cuba have created for travel between the two nations.
Canada and Europe, both nations not too friendly to Cuba's government have zero problems with tourist and VFR travel, there are dozens of flights a day from Cuba to western Europe and Canada full of tourists. why is the US so special about this.

Because the US government doesn't want their citizens spending money in Cuba.

UA444 wrote:

Swiss03 wrote:

what exactly is the point of the mess the US and Cuba have created for travel between the two nations.
Canada and Europe, both nations not too friendly to Cuba's government have zero problems with tourist and VFR travel, there are dozens of flights a day from Cuba to western Europe and Canada full of tourists. why is the US so special about this.

Because the US government doesn't want their citizens spending money in Cuba.

More specifically, the South Florida lobby doesn't want U.S. spending in Cuba. Nobody else cares.

US citizens have been travelling to Cuba for holidays for years- we went years ago (2005 IIRC), flew in from the Cayman Islands. I'm British so no issues there, but there were some Americans who we got chatting to waiting for the flight. Cayman Airways seemed to be doing quite well back then with quite a lot of people transferring onto the Havana flight from assorted US flights. Had a fun trip on a 737-200, doubt I'll get on one of them again!

Seems insane to put up so many roadblocks to travel- as @Swiss03 points out, there are no such issues with European or Canadian visitors to Cuba.

It always seemed strange that we had all these restrictions on Cuba, but none on Vietnam. I understand the power of the S. Florida Cuban community, but I think it’s time to remove restrictions.

Prost wrote:

It always seemed strange that we had all these restrictions on Cuba, but none on Vietnam. I understand the power of the S. Florida Cuban community, but I think it’s time to remove restrictions.

Even dumber is the fact that there has been no travel ban on North Korea until Trump came around, but Cuba has been off limits since the 60s.

Murdoughnut wrote:

BuildingMyBento wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:

And your point is?

It's just another pointless thing Washington has done.

For quite some time, U.S. citizens have been able to travel to Cuba through other countries. The announcement is more for Cubans looking to go to other Cuban cities non-stop from the states.

As someone who worked on successfully introducing flights during the Obama admin's lifting of restrictions, I can tell you it's far more than that. It's tied to trade opportunities on both sides, and provides certain securities to U.S. residents traveling to Cuba, particularly those with family in the country.

It was a successful program prior to Marco Rubio's negotiation with the Trump administration to reverse it.

For the purposes of this forum, I stayed within the confines of air travel.

Anyway, it's yet another thing about which to blame Florida.

Once again, there is no restriction on Americans VISITING Cuba.

What Americans are not allowed to do is SPEND MONEY in Cuba. THAT is how the "embargo" works.

Americans have, for decades, gotten around this by traveling to a third country, such as The Bahamas or Mexico, purchased everything in cash, including the airfare, and with no stamping of passports by Cuban officials or any paper trail to prove an American citizen spent money in Cuba, they were never "officially there".

Many American corporations are still furious with Castro and "The Revolution" for seizing property and equipment when it was nationalized in 1959. Those same corporations have spend millions upon millions of dollars more than was seized influencing congress to NEVER get rid of the embargo until Cuba admits total failure of socialism and returns that property to those corporations. Those are the facts.

With regards to air travel, why on EARTH would any airline offer flights to Cuba if most Americans can't spend money there? I understand Havana, because as the Primate City (the dominant cultural and economic force of the country), there will be "official" business. But flights to other places? That makes no sense to me, and it never has.

TWA772LR wrote:

Even dumber is the fact that there has been no travel ban on North Korea until Trump came around, but Cuba has been off limits since the 60s.

It is untrue that there was a travel ban to Cuba; rather, U.S. citizens are permitted to travel to Cuba, but they are prohibited from engaging in any transactions (which would include spending money or receiving any gifts like free accommodations or food, or paying Cuban taxes on airfare) in Cuba or with Cuban nationals without a license from the Department of the Treasury. The regulations on travel to North Korea really aren't all that different; travel is permitted but transactions are prohibited without a license.

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Once again, there is no restriction on Americans VISITING Cuba.

What Americans are not allowed to do is SPEND MONEY in Cuba. THAT is how the "embargo" works.

Americans have, for decades, gotten around this by traveling to a third country, such as The Bahamas or Mexico, purchased everything in cash, including the airfare, and with no stamping of passports by Cuban officials or any paper trail to prove an American citizen spent money in Cuba, they were never "officially there".

Many American corporations are still furious with Castro and "The Revolution" for seizing property and equipment when it was nationalized in 1959. Those same corporations have spend millions upon millions of dollars more than was seized influencing congress to NEVER get rid of the embargo until Cuba admits total failure of socialism and returns that property to those corporations. Those are the facts.

With regards to air travel, why on EARTH would any airline offer flights to Cuba if most Americans can't spend money there? I understand Havana, because as the Primate City (the dominant cultural and economic force of the country), there will be "official" business. But flights to other places? That makes no sense to me, and it never has.

the corporations dont care its long been an issue about florida but now that florida isnt so much of a swing state the south florida lobby is losing influence

dstblj52 wrote:

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Once again, there is no restriction on Americans VISITING Cuba.

What Americans are not allowed to do is SPEND MONEY in Cuba. THAT is how the "embargo" works.

Americans have, for decades, gotten around this by traveling to a third country, such as The Bahamas or Mexico, purchased everything in cash, including the airfare, and with no stamping of passports by Cuban officials or any paper trail to prove an American citizen spent money in Cuba, they were never "officially there".

Many American corporations are still furious with Castro and "The Revolution" for seizing property and equipment when it was nationalized in 1959. Those same corporations have spend millions upon millions of dollars more than was seized influencing congress to NEVER get rid of the embargo until Cuba admits total failure of socialism and returns that property to those corporations. Those are the facts.

With regards to air travel, why on EARTH would any airline offer flights to Cuba if most Americans can't spend money there? I understand Havana, because as the Primate City (the dominant cultural and economic force of the country), there will be "official" business. But flights to other places? That makes no sense to me, and it never has.

the corporations dont care its long been an issue about florida but now that florida isnt so much of a swing state the south florida lobby is losing influence

This is the answer.

BuildingMyBento wrote:

Murdoughnut wrote:

BuildingMyBento wrote:

It's just another pointless thing Washington has done.

For quite some time, U.S. citizens have been able to travel to Cuba through other countries. The announcement is more for Cubans looking to go to other Cuban cities non-stop from the states.

As someone who worked on successfully introducing flights during the Obama admin's lifting of restrictions, I can tell you it's far more than that. It's tied to trade opportunities on both sides, and provides certain securities to U.S. residents traveling to Cuba, particularly those with family in the country.

It was a successful program prior to Marco Rubio's negotiation with the Trump administration to reverse it.

For the purposes of this forum, I stayed within the confines of air travel.

Anyway, it's yet another thing about which to blame Florida.

I'll add to that, for the benefit of non-Americans trying to understand the power of the South Florida anti-Castro/Cuba lobby.

The U.S. does not have direct elections for President. The vote count in each state determines (in all most all states) who gets all of the respective state's electoral votes. Swinging just a few voters can determine whether a candidate gets Florida's thirty electoral votes, or zero. (270 needed to win.) Biden won by 7 million votes nationwide but a swing of maybe 80,000 votes across the 'wrong' states would have handed victory to Trump.

So, yeah, Florida matters in a way that is wholly disproportional. That's why it's hard to change travel/spending restrictions to Cuba.

The positive side of the travel ban is that I’ve enjoyed 4 amazing trips to Cuba without running into one obnoxious entitled zinc covered Fanny pack wearing American tourist, a Starbucks, or a McDonald’s.

And the “backdoor” KX flights are always a treat! Although I will miss they’re 732/733 classics now.

It’s not just AA who will benefit from this but also B6, who also flew into SNU and one or two others. What I never understood was the demand for places like VRA, which is the Cuban Cancun. If people weren’t going on beach vacations, what were they doing there?

The US market will likely stay South Florida (and maybe Tampa) to HAV and now a few other markets on the island direct from South Florida. The rest of the USA will stay Houston-Havana to capture west of the Mississippi and North Jersey/NYC to Havana for the North East. What else could they add? DL ATL to HAV? UA does well routing through Houston so LAX is unlikely on UA. DFW or ORD is unlikely on AA so not much is left to cover outside of Florida I presume.

FlyingSicilian wrote:

The US market will likely stay South Florida (and maybe Tampa) to HAV and now a few other markets on the island direct from South Florida. The rest of the USA will stay Houston-Havana to capture west of the Mississippi and North Jersey/NYC to Havana for the North East. What else could they add? DL ATL to HAV? UA does well routing through Houston so LAX is unlikely on UA. DFW or ORD is unlikely on AA so not much is left to cover outside of Florida I presume.

Dl through Atlanta might be viable it's a decent routing though most of the us and they can scoop up a decent number of one and 2 pdew routes on the strength of schedule and brand.

FlyingSicilian wrote:
The US market will likely stay South Florida (and maybe Tampa) to HAV and now a few other markets on the island direct from South Florida. The rest of the USA will stay Houston-Havana to capture west of the Mississippi and North Jersey/NYC to Havana for the North East. What else could they add? DL ATL to HAV? UA does well routing through Houston so LAX is unlikely on UA. DFW or ORD is unlikely on AA so not much is left to cover outside of Florida I presume.

Dl through Atlanta might be viable it's a decent routing though most of the us and they can scoop up a decent number of one and 2 pdew routes on the strength of schedule and brand.

I prefer to connect through the US rather than take the awfully-timed Air Canada flights from Toronto. Arriving in to Havana at midnight, and checking back in at the airport at 0500 is unreasonable on vacation! By connecting via ATL on DL, we arrived in beautiful daylilght and left similarly. (AA would have same via MIA.)

I think DL tried ATL-Havana before and it didn't work.. (or was it Miami-Havana? Im not sure) I wonder if DL can try JFK-Havana.

Also someone, Jet Blue perhaps, needs to step on the SJU-Havana route.

This will be interesting....

I wonder if AS is going to throw their hat in again with LAX-HAV…. I doubt it, but it’d be fun to dream about…

AntonioMartin wrote:

I think DL tried ATL-Havana before and it didn't work.. (or was it Miami-Havana? Im not sure) I wonder if DL can try JFK-Havana.

Also someone, Jet Blue perhaps, needs to step on the SJU-Havana route.

This will be interesting....

DL flew both MIA and ATL to HAV. ATL was dropped pre-pandemic. IIRC, MIA lasted until the pandemic but has not been re-added since.

Also, there isn’t much demand between SJU and HAV.

FlyingSicilian wrote:

The US market will likely stay South Florida (and maybe Tampa) to HAV and now a few other markets on the island direct from South Florida. The rest of the USA will stay Houston-Havana to capture west of the Mississippi and North Jersey/NYC to Havana for the North East. What else could they add? DL ATL to HAV? UA does well routing through Houston so LAX is unlikely on UA. DFW or ORD is unlikely on AA so not much is left to cover outside of Florida I presume.

Houston does have the largest Cuban population west of the Mississippi. That will help.

AntonioMartin wrote:

Also someone, Jet Blue perhaps, needs to step on the SJU-Havana route.

This will be interesting....

Not enough demand. Fair amount of traffic but SJU is far out of the way to connect from premium markets in the US. Jokingly though, since I grew up near MAZ, I would've loved to see Cubana send their loud An-24's and Il-118s into Mayaguez from Santiago de Cuba (only about 580 miles). That would've been awesome. Way back when it was still an "international airport" since Eagle flew MAZ-SDQ and there were customs and immigration facilities.

BuildingMyBento wrote:

Murdoughnut wrote:

BuildingMyBento wrote:

It's just another pointless thing Washington has done.

For quite some time, U.S. citizens have been able to travel to Cuba through other countries. The announcement is more for Cubans looking to go to other Cuban cities non-stop from the states.

As someone who worked on successfully introducing flights during the Obama admin's lifting of restrictions, I can tell you it's far more than that. It's tied to trade opportunities on both sides, and provides certain securities to U.S. residents traveling to Cuba, particularly those with family in the country.

It was a successful program prior to Marco Rubio's negotiation with the Trump administration to reverse it.

For the purposes of this forum, I stayed within the confines of air travel.

Anyway, it's yet another thing about which to blame Florida.

One cannot discuss travel to Cuba from the USA without discussing some element of politics. If the moderators do not know this they must be educated on it. Travel from the USA to Cuba has nothing to do with the market dynamics. It is to do with the fact that FL is the 3rd largest state and the Cuban, Venezuelan and Nicaraguan communities are highly mobilized and so can impact US presidential elections.

If all of the Cubans lived in OH this wouldnt be an issue as OH is less important politically. As others have pointed it Cuba is a huge Caribbean leisure destination, the 2nd largest in fact. This being because of the massive travel to that island from Canada, and Europe, and so I am confident that travel from the USA would have been massive, but for the travel restrictions.

Brickell305 wrote:

AntonioMartin wrote:

I think DL tried ATL-Havana before and it didn't work.. (or was it Miami-Havana? Im not sure) I wonder if DL can try JFK-Havana.

Also someone, Jet Blue perhaps, needs to step on the SJU-Havana route.

This will be interesting....

DL flew both MIA and ATL to HAV. ATL was dropped pre-pandemic. IIRC, MIA lasted until the pandemic but has not been re-added since.

Also, there isn’t much demand between SJU and HAV.

I don't know....there are many Cubans and Puerto Ricans of Cuban descent living in Puerto Rico....and a few enterprises, (most notably Bacardi) that would be interested in the route...

USAirKid wrote:

I wonder if AS is going to throw their hat in again with LAX-HAV…. I doubt it, but it’d be fun to dream about…

That horse is already proven dead, so why beat on it twice?

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Houston does have the largest Cuban population west of the Mississippi.

LAX and LAS would be amused by that statement.....

Can a Non US citizen fly from the US to Cuba?.

bennett123 wrote:

Can a Non US citizen fly from the US to Cuba?.

No. I just went to Cuba and wanted to go through Florida but there was no way.

caribny wrote:

BuildingMyBento wrote:

Murdoughnut wrote:

As someone who worked on successfully introducing flights during the Obama admin's lifting of restrictions, I can tell you it's far more than that. It's tied to trade opportunities on both sides, and provides certain securities to U.S. residents traveling to Cuba, particularly those with family in the country.

It was a successful program prior to Marco Rubio's negotiation with the Trump administration to reverse it.

For the purposes of this forum, I stayed within the confines of air travel.

Anyway, it's yet another thing about which to blame Florida.

One cannot discuss travel to Cuba from the USA without discussing some element of politics. If the moderators do not know this they must be educated on it. Travel from the USA to Cuba has nothing to do with the market dynamics. It is to do with the fact that FL is the 3rd largest state and the Cuban, Venezuelan and Nicaraguan communities are highly mobilized and so can impact US presidential elections.

If all of the Cubans lived in OH this wouldnt be an issue as OH is less important politically. As others have pointed it Cuba is a huge Caribbean leisure destination, the 2nd largest in fact. This being because of the massive travel to that island from Canada, and Europe, and so I am confident that travel from the USA would have been massive, but for the travel restrictions.

Correct and the main reason why demand from Canada and EU to Cuba is high because you get excellent value for money.

A 4* all inclusive hotel package (meals and drinks included) with air fare from YYZ will cost you less than $1000 for an entire week whilst a 5* would be only $250-300 more per week.

LAX772LR wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Houston does have the largest Cuban population west of the Mississippi.

LAX and LAS would be amused by that statement.....

They dont need to be, Houston has the largest Cuban population West of the Mississippi and the fastest growing Cuban population outside the Miami/Fort Lauderdale area.

Foreign Born Cuban population as of 2020 by metro area. Source is data.census.gov, table B05006.

Houston: 30,392
Las Vegas: 21,966
Los Angeles: 18,944
Dallas/Fort Worth: 11,382
Phoenix: 6,686
Austin: 6,293
Riverside/San Bernardino: 4,311
San Antonio: 3,337
San Francisco: 2,501
San Diego: 1,904
Seattle/Tacoma: 1,541
Denver: 1,092
Sacramento: 835
San Jose: 782

https://data.census.gov/cedsci/

Ill take it a step further. Below are the number of lawful and permanent residents that moved from Cuba to various metro areas across the US from 2019. 2020 data is available but is more of anomaly because of Covid, though the trends and rankings are almost identical to 2019. Source is DHS 2019 Yearbook, supplemental table number 2.

Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 23,781
Houston: 3,395
Tampa: 2,393
Las Vegas: 1,288
Fort Myers: 1,206
Orlando: 704
Louisville: 682
New York City: 611
Dallas/Fort Worth: 608
Phoenix: 425
Austin: 405
Hartford: 236
Atlanta: 215
Los Angeles: 157
San Antonio: 128
Chicago: 107
Washington DC: 54
San Francisco: 43
Philadelphia: 41
San Diego: 36
Boston: 36
Riverside/San Bernardino: 33
Seattle/Tacoma: 26

https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statist ... rbook/2019

Houston has the largest Cuban population West of the Mississippi and the fastest growing Cuban population outside South Florida. Period. End of Story.

behramjee wrote:

caribny wrote:

BuildingMyBento wrote:

For the purposes of this forum, I stayed within the confines of air travel.

Anyway, it's yet another thing about which to blame Florida.

One cannot discuss travel to Cuba from the USA without discussing some element of politics. If the moderators do not know this they must be educated on it. Travel from the USA to Cuba has nothing to do with the market dynamics. It is to do with the fact that FL is the 3rd largest state and the Cuban, Venezuelan and Nicaraguan communities are highly mobilized and so can impact US presidential elections.

If all of the Cubans lived in OH this wouldnt be an issue as OH is less important politically. As others have pointed it Cuba is a huge Caribbean leisure destination, the 2nd largest in fact. This being because of the massive travel to that island from Canada, and Europe, and so I am confident that travel from the USA would have been massive, but for the travel restrictions.

Correct and the main reason why demand from Canada and EU to Cuba is high because you get excellent value for money.

A 4* all inclusive hotel package (meals and drinks included) with air fare from YYZ will cost you less than $1000 for an entire week whilst a 5* would be only $250-300 more per week.

Absolutely true. I grew up in Puerto Rico where there's no such thing as all inclusives and since the island is tied to the dollar there's no way these resorts would succeed and thus make it a relatively expensive beach vacation for the ordinary tourist. I went to a 5 start resort in Puerto Vallarta a just before Covid hit and it was less than $1700 for two people all things included. As a US citizen It'd be fascinating to go to Cuba (historically at least) but the hassle of not being able use your American credit cards and carry bags of cash is too much of a pain to me.

Aesma wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

Can a Non US citizen fly from the US to Cuba?.

No. I just went to Cuba and wanted to go through Florida but there was no way.

That is not true.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Foreign Born Cuban population as of 2020 by metro area.

There's your disparity. You're only using foreign born.

Using the much more relevant-to-aviation standard of foreign born + 1st gen, gives:

LAX for 2010 was at 49,702 (I didn't know the 2020 numbers were out already and will look)
LAS at 20,569
HOU at 19,130

Hispanic or Latino by Type: 2010 Census Summary File 1

LAX772LR wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Foreign Born Cuban population as of 2020 by metro area.

There's your disparity. You're only using foreign born.

Using the much more relevant-to-aviation standard of foreign born + 1st gen, gives:

LAX for 2010 was at 49,702 (I didn't know the 2020 numbers were out already and will look)
LAS at 20,569
HOU at 19,130

Hispanic or Latino by Type: 2010 Census Summary File 1

Those are number from 2010. They aren't relevant given how much things have changed.

I dont agree that, if were talking about what is relevant to aviation that ancestry is the correct measure.

If we use the measure of everyone who claims Cuban ancestry no matter how many generations removed metric.
Los Angeles: 51,629
Houston: 44,612
Las Vegas: 32,792

Here is how many people of Cuban ancestry each metro area gained between 2010-2020
Houston: 28,296
Las Vegas: 14,896
Los Angeles: 3,792

What is very eye opening is the below. Foreign born Cuban growth between 2010-2020:
Houston: 20,880
Las Vegas: 10,614
Los Angeles: -5,968

Houston is the most relevant city here when were talking about travel trends to Cuba. Las Vegas is also relevant. I dont think ancestry is going to matter much when determining travel trends to Cuba. That wont drive travel to Cuba or increase ties to the region. Cubans arent moving to Los Angeles anymore and in fact are leaving. They are moving to Las Vegas and especially to Houston.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

I dont agree that, if were talking about what is relevant to aviation that ancestry is the correct measure.

I don't think anyone is positing that there's a "the" measure. Just nothing the simple fact that the foreign born and first generation are the two that tend to traverse between the previous and current nations with the highest frequency.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

no matter how many generations

Which no one has proposed as relevant.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Houston is the most relevant city here when were talking about travel trends to Cuba. Las Vegas is also relevant. I dont think ancestry is going to matter much when determining travel trends to Cuba. That wont drive travel to Cuba or increase ties to the region. Cubans arent moving to Los Angeles anymore and in fact are leaving. They are moving to Las Vegas and especially to Houston.

Fair. Again, I wasn't ware that the new census compilation was public yet.

LAX772LR wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

I dont agree that, if were talking about what is relevant to aviation that ancestry is the correct measure.

I don't think anyone is positing that there's a "the" measure. Just nothing the simple fact that the foreign born and first generation are the two that tend to traverse between the previous and current nations with the highest frequency.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

no matter how many generations

Which no one has proposed as relevant.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Houston is the most relevant city here when were talking about travel trends to Cuba. Las Vegas is also relevant. I dont think ancestry is going to matter much when determining travel trends to Cuba. That wont drive travel to Cuba or increase ties to the region. Cubans arent moving to Los Angeles anymore and in fact are leaving. They are moving to Las Vegas and especially to Houston.

Fair. Again, I wasn't ware that the new census compilation was public yet.

Regardless, so far the only city west of the Mississippi to make Havana work is Houston on UA which makes sense; they can grab all that connecting traffic plus local and make the flight work while Florida does the heavy lifting with NJ/NY handling their local and the NE.

Iirc United has Havana on an E75 for now, but I would expect an upgrade as this new old rule goes into effect.

Could a Sat only LAX service happen again soon, sure! but don't hold your breath.

LAX772LR wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

I dont agree that, if were talking about what is relevant to aviation that ancestry is the correct measure.

I don't think anyone is positing that there's a "the" measure. Just nothing the simple fact that the foreign born and first generation are the two that tend to traverse between the previous and current nations with the highest frequency.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

no matter how many generations

Which no one has proposed as relevant.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Houston is the most relevant city here when were talking about travel trends to Cuba. Las Vegas is also relevant. I dont think ancestry is going to matter much when determining travel trends to Cuba. That wont drive travel to Cuba or increase ties to the region. Cubans arent moving to Los Angeles anymore and in fact are leaving. They are moving to Las Vegas and especially to Houston.

Fair. Again, I wasn't ware that the new census compilation was public yet.

I think a big part of it is that there is a shuffling of immigration from lots of places and Cuba is one. Cubans tend to be right wing so I can see that California might not be on their radar anymore. West of the Mississippi, Houston and Vegas are really their go to cities now in that order. To a lesser degree DFW and to a far lesser degree Austin. Other than that, they really stick to Florida.

AA asked the DOT for authority and frequencies to offer scheduled service between Miami and Santa Clara, Holguin, Matanzas/Varadero, Camaguey, and Santiago de Cuba.

> 2 daily frequencies MIA-SNU effective 11/3/22 - B737
> 1 daily frequency MIA-VRA effective 11/3/22 - B737
> 1 daily frequency MIA-HOG effective 11/4/22 - B737
> 1 daily frequency MIA-CMW effective 11/4/22 - A319
> 1 daily frequency MIA-SCU effective 11/5/22 - A319

DOT-OST-2022-0073