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airbazar
Posts: 10926
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: ATR announces it is researching new design

Fri May 20, 2022 11:59 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Have you ever been in a Q400, the acceleration and climb are much faster, the doors are at the right end and the overhead bins are that little bit larger, making the Q400 a better turboprop experience.


The door on the wrong end thing is relative to where you're sitting. I can see how the people paying the most will dislike having to use the rear door and being last to deplane but as someone who usually buys the cheapest tickets, rear end boarding is nice. In fact I get annoyed and out right disappointed when boarding a plane via stairs (common in Europe), and they only use the front door :)
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 14418
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: ATR announces it is researching new design

Fri May 20, 2022 12:23 pm

airbazar wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Have you ever been in a Q400, the acceleration and climb are much faster, the doors are at the right end and the overhead bins are that little bit larger, making the Q400 a better turboprop experience.


The door on the wrong end thing is relative to where you're sitting. I can see how the people paying the most will dislike having to use the rear door and being last to deplane but as someone who usually buys the cheapest tickets, rear end boarding is nice. In fact I get annoyed and out right disappointed when boarding a plane via stairs (common in Europe), and they only use the front door :)


On the Finnair ATR's flying in Norway the expensive seats are the ones down the back near the door.

At my local airport SAS will usually have boarding from both doors, with Norwegian it's normally front only.
 
Canuck600
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: ATR announces it is researching new design

Fri May 20, 2022 5:02 pm

JBo wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Canuck600 wrote:
Question about the American Eagle accident, how could a single accident turn American operators off from ATR? I could see it if a half dozen or more of the same model turned themselves into lawn darts. Is this just another case of airliners.net "wisdom"?


Delta, for one, had already started getting RJs by the time of the Roselawn accident in 1994, as Comair replaced Saabs. Very few ATR-42 or -72s ever found their way into major American (the nationality, not the airline) fleets.

The AA historians will jump in, but IIRC, AA's ATRs got concentrated at the SJU hub, and when B6 showed you could go from NYC to the Caribbean without a connection at MIA or SJU, AA's SJU hub was dismantled.

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... kets-71302


AA4184 was one of a handful of fatal accidents involving regional turboprop aircraft that happened in the mid-1990s (there was also an AA Jetstream 31 that crashed that I recall offhand). The cause of the AA4184 crash was deemed to be a design flaw with the de-icing boots on the ATR aircraft. That kind of bloomed into a broader concern over the safety and reliability of regional turboprops, and that combined with the advent of regional jets pretty much sealed ATR's fate in the U.S. market.

AA migrated all of their ATRs to the Caribbean, keeping them away from winter weather.


Thanks for the answer
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: ATR announces it is researching new design

Fri May 20, 2022 5:15 pm

Clydenairways wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
tomcat wrote:

I had one of my most enjoyable flight on an ATR. I flew from Palu to Ampana (Central Sulawesi, Indonesia) and it was great to feel the strong acceleration during the takeoff roll, to circle climb out of the narrow bay a Palu surrounded by mountains and eventually getting over the mountains and flying over the Gulf of Tomini to go land at the small airport of Ampana. I didn't find anything wrong with the location of the door, the speed of the aircraft or the size of the overhead bins. They rather contributed positively to the experience.


Have you ever been in a Q400, the acceleration and climb are much faster, the doors are at the right end and the overhead bins are that little bit larger, making the Q400 a better turboprop experience.


Cant agree with you there, i much prefer all my flights on the -600 version of the ATR compared to the Q400.

Reasons or is your response in direct opposition to the points made by Kiwirob on acceleration, climb, doors, bins?
 
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keesje
Posts: 15043
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: ATR announces it is researching new design

Thu May 26, 2022 9:05 am

This ATR announcement seem little more than announcing they'll look for new engines and they might even be hybrid.
So..

But we'll also do minor aero improvements and put a great zoro cockpit livery on!
Ah..

We are fully commited to sustainable aviation and we are working on a provisional time table, depending on customer requirements and industry developments moving forward.
Hmm..
 
SpoonNZ
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:22 am

Re: ATR announces it is researching new design

Thu May 26, 2022 10:53 am

airbazar wrote:

The door on the wrong end thing is relative to where you're sitting. I can see how the people paying the most will dislike having to use the rear door and being last to deplane but as someone who usually buys the cheapest tickets, rear end boarding is nice. In fact I get annoyed and out right disappointed when boarding a plane via stairs (common in Europe), and they only use the front door :)

I always go for the back couple of rows. NZ reserve them for Gold members. Always short flights so the speed getting off/on far outweighs any benefit to being up front like noise.

Still remember a few years ago as I was checking in a woman telling checkin staff how important she was and insisting she be moved to row 1 on my ATR flight. They were only too happy to oblige.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2843
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: ATR announces it is researching new design

Thu May 26, 2022 1:24 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
tomcat wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

How can anyone like ATR’s the doors at the wrong end, they’re slow and the overhead bins are too small.


I had one of my most enjoyable flight on an ATR. I flew from Palu to Ampana (Central Sulawesi, Indonesia) and it was great to feel the strong acceleration during the takeoff roll, to circle climb out of the narrow bay a Palu surrounded by mountains and eventually getting over the mountains and flying over the Gulf of Tomini to go land at the small airport of Ampana. I didn't find anything wrong with the location of the door, the speed of the aircraft or the size of the overhead bins. They rather contributed positively to the experience.


Have you ever been in a Q400, the acceleration and climb are much faster, the doors are at the right end and the overhead bins are that little bit larger, making the Q400 a better turboprop experience.


No way. I have flown both types back to back a number of times, and while the Q400 is indeed faster, it's WAYYYY more uncomfortable that the ATR. The ATR cabin is far nicer, better assembled, has no undue vibrations, reverberations etc, the plastics are much nicer (and not brittle like on the dash), the bins are in fact bigger on the ATR, lighting is better, seats are much much nicer and bigger (those Q400 factory-seats are horrendous), and cabin noise is only a fraction compared to the Q400. I'd say the Q400, as fast and as rugged as it may be, comes across as the 'old prop aircraft', while the ATR offers a comfort level that is fully on-par with a jet, if not better (the cabin is REALLY quiet and totally vibration-free). I'm telling you this because I once happened to fly with a very anxious friend who was panicking at the thought of flying a turboprop, so I very seriously told him that "no, the new ATR/600 is a jet now" .... we boarded from the rear, he didn't notice the props while I distracted him, I kept a super-straight face, assured him this was "the new ATR regional jet", and boy did he fully believe my lie... :yes: from the back of the cabin, where you don't see the wing, there is NO indication -ZERO!- that you are flying on a prop. The noise is just not there.
 
baje427
Posts: 1094
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Re: ATR announces it is researching new design

Thu May 26, 2022 2:42 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
tomcat wrote:

I had one of my most enjoyable flight on an ATR. I flew from Palu to Ampana (Central Sulawesi, Indonesia) and it was great to feel the strong acceleration during the takeoff roll, to circle climb out of the narrow bay a Palu surrounded by mountains and eventually getting over the mountains and flying over the Gulf of Tomini to go land at the small airport of Ampana. I didn't find anything wrong with the location of the door, the speed of the aircraft or the size of the overhead bins. They rather contributed positively to the experience.


Have you ever been in a Q400, the acceleration and climb are much faster, the doors are at the right end and the overhead bins are that little bit larger, making the Q400 a better turboprop experience.


No way. I have flown both types back to back a number of times, and while the Q400 is indeed faster, it's WAYYYY more uncomfortable that the ATR. The ATR cabin is far nicer, better assembled, has no undue vibrations, reverberations etc, the plastics are much nicer (and not brittle like on the dash), the bins are in fact bigger on the ATR, lighting is better, seats are much much nicer and bigger (those Q400 factory-seats are horrendous), and cabin noise is only a fraction compared to the Q400. I'd say the Q400, as fast and as rugged as it may be, comes across as the 'old prop aircraft', while the ATR offers a comfort level that is fully on-par with a jet, if not better (the cabin is REALLY quiet and totally vibration-free). I'm telling you this because I once happened to fly with a very anxious friend who was panicking at the thought of flying a turboprop, so I very seriously told him that "no, the new ATR/600 is a jet now" .... we boarded from the rear, he didn't notice the props while I distracted him, I kept a super-straight face, assured him this was "the new ATR regional jet", and boy did he fully believe my lie... :yes: from the back of the cabin, where you don't see the wing, there is NO indication -ZERO!- that you are flying on a prop. The noise is just not there.

Isn't that down to the airline and the seats they select ? The cabin on LG's Q400 look very modern. I however, do agree the ATR is very quiet and is a nice ride.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2843
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: ATR announces it is researching new design

Thu May 26, 2022 3:31 pm

baje427 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Have you ever been in a Q400, the acceleration and climb are much faster, the doors are at the right end and the overhead bins are that little bit larger, making the Q400 a better turboprop experience.


No way. I have flown both types back to back a number of times, and while the Q400 is indeed faster, it's WAYYYY more uncomfortable that the ATR. The ATR cabin is far nicer, better assembled, has no undue vibrations, reverberations etc, the plastics are much nicer (and not brittle like on the dash), the bins are in fact bigger on the ATR, lighting is better, seats are much much nicer and bigger (those Q400 factory-seats are horrendous), and cabin noise is only a fraction compared to the Q400. I'd say the Q400, as fast and as rugged as it may be, comes across as the 'old prop aircraft', while the ATR offers a comfort level that is fully on-par with a jet, if not better (the cabin is REALLY quiet and totally vibration-free). I'm telling you this because I once happened to fly with a very anxious friend who was panicking at the thought of flying a turboprop, so I very seriously told him that "no, the new ATR/600 is a jet now" .... we boarded from the rear, he didn't notice the props while I distracted him, I kept a super-straight face, assured him this was "the new ATR regional jet", and boy did he fully believe my lie... :yes: from the back of the cabin, where you don't see the wing, there is NO indication -ZERO!- that you are flying on a prop. The noise is just not there.

Isn't that down to the airline and the seats they select ? The cabin on LG's Q400 look very modern. I however, do agree the ATR is very quiet and is a nice ride.


That is in fact a good question, but all operators of the Q400 (and 'older' Dash-8s too) that I have flown with had those horrible, thin, 'Bombardier' factory seats (those who are familiar with the Dash and the Q400 know what I am talking about!), whilst ALL of the ATR operators bar none had beautiful, soft, mainline seats.
The amazing quietness of the ATR is nothing short of amazing, and makes a huge difference. Anything beyond the 60minute mark on the Q400 will result in me getting a solid headache due to the noise and vibration.
 
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alberchico
Posts: 3708
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

Re: ATR announces it is researching new design

Fri May 27, 2022 2:31 pm

It's possible that they have realized that despite those fancy images that were released last year of a hydrogen powered clean sheet replacement for the ATR, it's not actually feasible. So developing a NEO version as quick as possible is the most practical and cost effective solution right now. In fact, if you look at the details, the improvements that they want to make to the airframe go deeper than what Airbus did with their A320 NEO. I'm surprised they're not considering a new wing to make it even more efficient. I think aiming for engines that can accept 100% SAF is realistically the best we can achieve in the near future. Hydrogen will not happen anytime soon. The article below shows why Boeing is not receptive to the idea of a hydrogen powered aircraft.

https://simpleflying.com/boeing-no-hydrogen-focus/amp/

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