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Galwayman
Posts: 1134
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:04 pm

If LCCs didn't deliver a good value product then their Customers would defect in time to the Legacy carriers and that is simply not happening.[/quote]

Even if FR was 30% more expensive than EI I’d still choose FR because of their excellent reliability and time keeping . For myself and many others FR is the much more reliable airline , who just often happen to be cheapest
 
YUAND
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:11 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:29 pm

Galwayman wrote:
If LCCs didn't deliver a good value product then their Customers would defect in time to the Legacy carriers and that is simply not happening.


Even if FR was 30% more expensive than EI I’d still choose FR because of their excellent reliability and time keeping . For myself and many others FR is the much more reliable airline , who just often happen to be cheapest[/quote]

My personal preference would be EI in that situation and that's what it is - personal preference. I do think however that points regarding the conditioning of the Irish consumer to cheap headline fares are indeed correct. If you look at various economic indices such as purchasing power, Ireland ranks very highly and there are some very wealthy individuals who both live in and travel to Ireland. I am a little surprised that this cannot sustain some sort of premium product but maybe EI know something that I don't.

Whilst it is obvious that EI adopting a lower-cost approach has saved it from financial distress, I do think the airline should promote its USPs when compared to FR a little more and work harder on those e.g. lounge access, a 'friendlier' face and a less cheap and cheerful experience than FR. Much of this infrastructure already exists but I don't think the Irish passenger is conditioned to consider those. A potential marketing effort could boost those USPs and perhaps attract the passenger that is willing to pay a premium for those 'frills'.

I would be intrigued to see a breakdown of stats for EI on short-haul routes since it does appear to lack imagination and variety compared to FR's network which can take you pretty much anywhere in Europe. Logically, it would be difficult to compete with FR on cost on some of these routes so I'm wondering whether wider promotion of USPs that I've mentioned previously amongst others would help give them an edge.

In relation to EI night stopping, apologies if this is a stupid question but why do they night stop in LHR? Could they not leverage the fact that they are in an airline group with BA to avoid this extra cost or are there other benefits that I'm missing? I do think that they will have to reintroduce night stopping because of congestion in DUB in the mornings however, especially if they want to grow their SH network.
 
Vicenza
Posts: 919
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:32 pm

YUAND wrote:
I do think however that points regarding the conditioning of the Irish consumer to cheap headline fares are indeed correct. If you look at various economic indices such as purchasing power, Ireland ranks very highly and there are some very wealthy individuals who both live in and travel to Ireland. I am a little surprised that this cannot sustain some sort of premium product but maybe EI know something that I don't.

Whilst it is obvious that EI adopting a lower-cost approach has saved it from financial distress, I do think the airline should promote its USPs when compared to FR a little more and work harder on those e.g. lounge access, a 'friendlier' face and a less cheap and cheerful experience than FR. Much of this infrastructure already exists but I don't think the Irish passenger is conditioned to consider


I would disagree in general regarding the "cheap headline fares" and I have always had that view. Just because someone may be 'wealthy' does not automatically mean that they will waste money just for the sake of doing so. Not everyone is fixated on an often over-hyped premium product with over-priced fares. The vast majority of those who fly premium are on business, and either have their tickets paid for them, or can directly claim the cost as a tax deduction.I know quite a few people who will fly either F, or an LCC, depending on the destination......but nothing in between. Having said that though, I imagine EI know what a premium product can/cannot be sustained on, and (no with re ference whatever to yourself) the majority of a.net guesses are based solely on their own experiences of these aspects.
Likewise lounges. Why would the majority of Irish passengers actually need a lounge, and especially considering that majority would be leisure? My own personal opinion - and I stress it is precisely that - is they are simply not needed by the majority of passengers. I myself fly approx 12-14 short and long haul flights per year, all leisure and never for business. However, I do not require a lounge on any of them, and they add absolutely no value whatsoever to me. Indeed, even more so with the number of complaints about them on this board alone. The vast majority of Irish leisure passengers would agree, and hence there is no reason to consider them. If people want, or feel they need them, that is perfectly fine of course and they are there for that.
Indeed, you yourself state that you find FR the more reliable airline. You'll find the majority of passengers, me included, who much prefer punctuality and reliability over a premium product or a lounge
 
Orlaithdub
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:24 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:38 pm

Baruch wrote:
Orlaithdub wrote:
Will aerlingus ever overnight/nightstop shorthaul aircraft at outstations apart from LHR? I remember they used to overnight in Paris and Amsterdam up to 2005/2006. This would only make sense with the many usa flights they have and for connections? For instances the early Rome flight lands so late in Dublin that it misses the first wave of american flights. If it was a night stop it would connect to every single USA flight they have. I find it surprising they overnight in LHR but not in FCO/MXP/AMS/CDG which are further, even if the LHR market is obviously much busier


EI probably does not have enough frequency to have aircraft overnight at outstations, except LHR and perhaps CDG and AMS. Take the example of KL at DUB - they have five daily flights on at the moment. The aircraft that operates the first flight in the morning (~6am departure) is the one that operated the last flight the previous day (~10.30pm landing), but the crew is not. I flew on an afternoon AF flight from DUB to CDG a few months ago, and the crew had just arrived from the hotel - presumably they had arrived on the last flight from CDG the previous day, and the inbound crew overnighted at DUB to operate the first flight out the next morning. Without four or five daily frequencies, in order to overnight at outstations they would need to sacrifice crew utilisation or aircraft utilisation, which probably does not make sense if all you're going to pick up are low-yielding transfer passengers.



But thats all Im asking, AMS and CDG with 4/5 frquencies its strange there is no early departure from neither of those 2 airports. It would allow more connections
 
Eirules
Posts: 2123
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:52 pm

Vicenza wrote:
YUAND wrote:
I do think however that points regarding the conditioning of the Irish consumer to cheap headline fares are indeed correct. If you look at various economic indices such as purchasing power, Ireland ranks very highly and there are some very wealthy individuals who both live in and travel to Ireland. I am a little surprised that this cannot sustain some sort of premium product but maybe EI know something that I don't.

Whilst it is obvious that EI adopting a lower-cost approach has saved it from financial distress, I do think the airline should promote its USPs when compared to FR a little more and work harder on those e.g. lounge access, a 'friendlier' face and a less cheap and cheerful experience than FR. Much of this infrastructure already exists but I don't think the Irish passenger is conditioned to consider


I would disagree in general regarding the "cheap headline fares" and I have always had that view. Just because someone may be 'wealthy' does not automatically mean that they will waste money just for the sake of doing so. Not everyone is fixated on an often over-hyped premium product with over-priced fares. The vast majority of those who fly premium are on business, and either have their tickets paid for them, or can directly claim the cost as a tax deduction.I know quite a few people who will fly either F, or an LCC, depending on the destination......but nothing in between. Having said that though, I imagine EI know what a premium product can/cannot be sustained on, and (no with re ference whatever to yourself) the majority of a.net guesses are based solely on their own experiences of these aspects.
Likewise lounges. Why would the majority of Irish passengers actually need a lounge, and especially considering that majority would be leisure? My own personal opinion - and I stress it is precisely that - is they are simply not needed by the majority of passengers. I myself fly approx 12-14 short and long haul flights per year, all leisure and never for business. However, I do not require a lounge on any of them, and they add absolutely no value whatsoever to me. Indeed, even more so with the number of complaints about them on this board alone. The vast majority of Irish leisure passengers would agree, and hence there is no reason to consider them. If people want, or feel they need them, that is perfectly fine of course and they are there for that.
Indeed, you yourself state that you find FR the more reliable airline. You'll find the majority of passengers, me included, who much prefer punctuality and reliability over a premium product or a lounge


Lounge access is an incidental. It’ll probably cost €25-€30 at each end. I included it in my original comparison purely to highlight that one fare including it may be cheaper than another excluding it

I have given one example (DUB-CDG) where an EI economy fare is significantly poorer value than an AF business one. I’m sure if I put enough effort into it I’ll find more (as has been proven by another poster on DUB-LHR). My original point still stands, EI don’t offer European business fares because Irish people don’t seek them. Yes KL, BA, LH etc get a significant portion of their DUB-XXX J traffic because of transfers but there is clearly a market for point to point and whether it’s a couple taking a short break to Paris or a businessman/woman to London or a family to Malaga,there’s a demand or other airlines wouldnt offer it. As for who pays (corporate or personal) Aer Lingus don’t and shouldn’t care
 
DublinPaul
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:24 am

Vicenza..."Just because someone may be 'wealthy' does not automatically mean that they will waste money just for the sake of doing so."
Nobody suggested that.

Vicenza..."Not everyone is fixated on an often over-hyped premium product with over-priced fares."
Nobody suggested that either.

Vicenza..."Likewise lounges. Why would the majority of Irish passengers actually need a lounge,"
Nobody suggested that anybody needed a lounge, never mind a majority of passengers - who and what exactly are you arguing with?

The question raised was, should Aer Lingus reintroduce Business Class on short haul flights.
You have made it clear it is not something that you would avail of....which is fine but of zero relevance to the discussion.
SOME people would undoubtedly use it and they should not be dismissed as "wasting" money on "ego frills" by you just because they are choosing how to spend their own money - it's not your money !!!

Eirules suggested that sometimes a business class fare on a full service airline can be good value (all things considered) for those who might want it, when compared to a non-business class fare on Ryanair / Aer Lingus but that most Irish people don't think to check that out because their expectations are conditioned by cheap headline fares. Ryanair and Aer Lingus understand that point well and no reasonable person would argue against it.
 
YUAND
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:11 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:57 am

Vicenza wrote:
YUAND wrote:
I do think however that points regarding the conditioning of the Irish consumer to cheap headline fares are indeed correct. If you look at various economic indices such as purchasing power, Ireland ranks very highly and there are some very wealthy individuals who both live in and travel to Ireland. I am a little surprised that this cannot sustain some sort of premium product but maybe EI know something that I don't.

Whilst it is obvious that EI adopting a lower-cost approach has saved it from financial distress, I do think the airline should promote its USPs when compared to FR a little more and work harder on those e.g. lounge access, a 'friendlier' face and a less cheap and cheerful experience than FR. Much of this infrastructure already exists but I don't think the Irish passenger is conditioned to consider


I would disagree in general regarding the "cheap headline fares" and I have always had that view. Just because someone may be 'wealthy' does not automatically mean that they will waste money just for the sake of doing so. Not everyone is fixated on an often over-hyped premium product with over-priced fares. The vast majority of those who fly premium are on business, and either have their tickets paid for them, or can directly claim the cost as a tax deduction.I know quite a few people who will fly either F, or an LCC, depending on the destination......but nothing in between. Having said that though, I imagine EI know what a premium product can/cannot be sustained on, and (no with re ference whatever to yourself) the majority of a.net guesses are based solely on their own experiences of these aspects.
Likewise lounges. Why would the majority of Irish passengers actually need a lounge, and especially considering that majority would be leisure? My own personal opinion - and I stress it is precisely that - is they are simply not needed by the majority of passengers. I myself fly approx 12-14 short and long haul flights per year, all leisure and never for business. However, I do not require a lounge on any of them, and they add absolutely no value whatsoever to me. Indeed, even more so with the number of complaints about them on this board alone. The vast majority of Irish leisure passengers would agree, and hence there is no reason to consider them. If people want, or feel they need them, that is perfectly fine of course and they are there for that.
Indeed, you yourself state that you find FR the more reliable airline. You'll find the majority of passengers, me included, who much prefer punctuality and reliability over a premium product or a lounge


It doesn't mean that but I do think that part of the job of a marketing department should be to attempt to upsell a more premium and indeed pricey product to customers and it doesn't really appear that they are doing that. However, with business PAX in mind, a lounge does offer a space to work amongst other things that may be valued, not to mention the potential convenience of 'business class' or Aerspace or whatever it may be offering refreshments and food on board (particularly with queues in DUB and elsewhere recently which may not leave time for people to eat at the airport). The purchasing power in this country would suggest to me at first glance that there could be some room to offer these products to Irish-origin passengers as well as passengers from other countries that may be flying in to do business in DUB. I'm not suggesting by any means that this is on the same scale as you would find on BA, AF etc but I do think effective marketing and/or sales departments should be finding ways to extract a premium from these passengers as opposed to a 'nicer FR' offering.

There is no doubt that EI's conservative at best, bland and unimaginative at worst approach is profitable for them but what is the opportunity cost of their chosen approach and how much premium business from DUB is indeed leaking to other carriers?
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:30 am

YUAND wrote:
There is no doubt that EI's conservative at best, bland and unimaginative at worst approach is profitable for them but what is the opportunity cost of their chosen approach and how much premium business from DUB is indeed leaking to other carriers?

Its an interesting conversation with intrenched views! I like Club Europe and BA does very well selling it on leisure sectors to the "bucket and spade" destinations. They often have 10-14 rows of Club on these sectors, far larger cabins than would be typical for the business routes. So I don't quite buy that Business Class demand is driven entirely by business travellers. That said, the demographic and disposable income in BA's home market is very, very high. I gauge it by the amount of Tumi, Rimowa, Victorinox, etc luggage you see on-bard and checked-in. The proportion is enormous in comparison to other airports and airlines. Conversely, if your time truly is valuable are you going to waste time connecting compared to at the direct flight with EI or FR? Especially with airports in the mess they currently are? It's difficult to know how much EI are truly leaking, I suspect its not huge and a lot of it would be lower yield anyway.

The new A32Ns are bound to have more seats, certainly 6, maybe even 12 more. There is ample opportunity for EI to expand AerSpace if they want to without impacting capacity, especially in the interim while the number of A32Ns is small.

Speaking of the A32Ns - airfleets lists EI-NSB as delivered on the 23/05/2022, I think its being painted as we speak? Hopefully we will see it soon. Are these A32N's replacements for the A321ceo and the two A320s now at Allegiant? I don't think any other A320s have been permanently retired from the fleet during the pandemic?
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:03 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
Speaking of the A32Ns - airfleets lists EI-NSB as delivered on the 23/05/2022, I think its being painted as we speak? Hopefully we will see it soon. Are these A32N's replacements for the A321ceo and the two A320s now at Allegiant? I don't think any other A320s have been permanently retired from the fleet during the pandemic?

EI-NSB has been in Ostrava for almost a month now, as of last week it still wasn’t painted. It’s a former Smartavia aircraft which has 188 seats, apparently Aer Lingus only plan for 186 so it’s possibly being refitted down there as well. Another A32N (F-WWDH) had its customer acceptance flight on Friday, one source says this is now for Air Cairo but most others still have it listed for Aer Lingus. Contracts usually exchange soon after acceptance flights so we’ll know soon enough.

I read elsewhere -GAL and -GAM are leaving at the end of their lease sometime this summer. Interestingly, they’re also ex-Russian frames that needed refitting and paint at Ostrava.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:12 pm

DAA may refund all holiday costs, including hotels and apartments, if they were missed due to delays debacle

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/daa ... 65020.html

Rightfully so they may think twice before decisions made in future .

--

Aer Lingus passenger put 'through hell' after airline lost luggage and employee had just four words for her

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-n ... 271901.amp

I have a feeling lost luggage is going to feature highly this Summer .
 
S0Y
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:00 pm

OA260 wrote:
Aer Lingus passenger put 'through hell' after airline lost luggage and employee had just four words for her

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-n ... 271901.amp

I have a feeling lost luggage is going to feature highly this Summer .


Apparently golf clubs are especially problematic for EI. Twitter is ablaze with people who do not expect to see their golf clubs again
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:49 pm

S0Y wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Aer Lingus passenger put 'through hell' after airline lost luggage and employee had just four words for her

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-n ... 271901.amp

I have a feeling lost luggage is going to feature highly this Summer .


Apparently golf clubs are especially problematic for EI. Twitter is ablaze with people who do not expect to see their golf clubs again


Quite a lot of very high revenue passengers use EI for golfing trips especially TATL . Hopefully they can resolve it . Dont bite the hand that feeds you and all that !
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:34 pm

YUAND wrote:
It doesn't mean that but I do think that part of the job of a marketing department should be to attempt to upsell a more premium and indeed pricey product to customers and it doesn't really appear that they are doing that.

There is no doubt that EI's conservative at best, bland and unimaginative at worst approach is profitable for them but what is the opportunity cost of their chosen approach and how much premium business from DUB is indeed leaking to other carriers?


Yes, the upsell opportunity is there. I flew on the cheapest KLM fare I could find on DUB-AMS-TLS. For the AMS-TLS leg, at online check-in, I was able to upgrade to business class for €47, just by selecting an open seat in that cabin. It was limited incidentally, there were three of us travelling on that sector and only two could upgrade - our other friend did not have that part of the seat map open. We thought it excellent value! On the return, the friend who missed out upgraded himself by doing the same, but he paid €89, still good value considering how cheap our tickets were.

BA do the same, with their upgrade offers that appear in Manage My Booking as do a whole host of other airlines (QR spring to mind). I don't believe Aer Lingus does this at all, which you would think would be a no brainer... but perhaps not, as they charge a price premium on transatlantic and seem to still fill the cabins.

Regardless of what we might think, EI seem to have found their niche. What I'll be curious about is whether they end up introducing premium economy on long-haul. Many other airlines are doing it and it's been said by more than one carrier that it's the most profitable cabin. Are EI missing a trick by not having it?
 
S0Y
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:37 am

ClassicLover wrote:
YUAND wrote:

Regardless of what we might think, EI seem to have found their niche. What I'll be curious about is whether they end up introducing premium economy on long-haul. Many other airlines are doing it and it's been said by more than one carrier that it's the most profitable cabin. Are EI missing a trick by not having it?


Do not think so, at least on east coast destinations. Many companies that still cover TATL biz fares would quickly change policy to cap out at Y+ if it were an option.
So they would end up cannabilising the J cabin.
I think they could make money with Y+ on west coast and on some of the longer EU leisure routes, but that causes fleet complexity. The other factor at play is IT limitations
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:11 am

US airlines demand Minister Eamon Ryan take urgent action over Dublin airport crisis
In May, just 1 6.7pc of Air Canada’s flights departing Dublin were on time

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/n ... 72617.html

I wondered how long it would be for the TATL carriers to act .
 
Eirules
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:54 am

OA260 wrote:
US airlines demand Minister Eamon Ryan take urgent action over Dublin airport crisis
In May, just 1 6.7pc of Air Canada’s flights departing Dublin were on time

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/n ... 72617.html

I wondered how long it would be for the TATL carriers to act .



Best of luck demanding anything from him. I wonder will this impact the airline’s planning for next year. AA’s DFW flights are on sale for an extended S23, I wonder will those kind of decisions be reviewed
 
shamrock321
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:34 am

Air Canada have had some horrendous delays so far this summer but they can hardly blame Dublin airport! Today’s inbound AC800 from YYZ is almost 3 hours late and it hasn’t landed on time since May 25th!
 
LH982
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:53 am

OA260 wrote:
US airlines demand Minister Eamon Ryan take urgent action over Dublin airport crisis
In May, just 1 6.7pc of Air Canada’s flights departing Dublin were on time

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/n ... 72617.html

I wondered how long it would be for the TATL carriers to act .


Headline of US airlines, and then give an example that's not a US airline. Excellent stuff.

Is there a chance that the DAA could fix the reg plate readers in the red car park. It's become ridiculous at this stage.
 
EK770
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:11 am

shamrock321 wrote:
Air Canada have had some horrendous delays so far this summer but they can hardly blame Dublin airport! Today’s inbound AC800 from YYZ is almost 3 hours late and it hasn’t landed on time since May 25th!


Exactly, the transatlantic carriers are hardly smashing it in terms of punctuality, all of them are regularly arriving in late to DUB (AA seems to be the best of the bunch), can hardly expect ground staff to be readily available if a/c is late arriving hours late into DUB. Plenty of threads discussing airline ops problems in the US.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:50 pm

Eirules wrote:
OA260 wrote:
US airlines demand Minister Eamon Ryan take urgent action over Dublin airport crisis
In May, just 1 6.7pc of Air Canada’s flights departing Dublin were on time

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/n ... 72617.html

I wondered how long it would be for the TATL carriers to act .



Best of luck demanding anything from him. I wonder will this impact the airline’s planning for next year. AA’s DFW flights are on sale for an extended S23, I wonder will those kind of decisions be reviewed


The only thing that will impact S23 is profit of lack of it.

If you were to dig into the data all these carriers will share an equal amount of responsiblty with the daa and handlers for the poor performance.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:30 pm

 
A60Stock
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:28 pm

Reported elsewhere; A332 EI-GEY has positioned from Ciudad Real to Nimes (where I believe sister A332’s EI-DAA and EI-DUO are). Allegedly, according to the ever infallible Twitter, it is going back into service (although there are rumours to the contrary) - time will tell on that one.
 
nickya340
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:57 pm

Shame there’s no black ‘raccoon’ cockpit window on the NEO, would have been nice for a somewhat bland livery.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:34 pm

FR add x2 weekly DUB-Asturias, Spain from 2 November.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:35 pm

nickya340 wrote:
Shame there’s no black ‘raccoon’ cockpit window on the NEO, would have been nice for a somewhat bland livery.


Was hoping the same just parked next to a IBX A321 and the 'raccoon' really makes it .
 
Eagleboy
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:33 pm

S0Y wrote:
Apparently golf clubs are especially problematic for EI. Twitter is ablaze with people who do not expect to see their golf clubs again

The issue is due to the partnership with Emerald Airlines.
Skyhandling dont have/cant get the staff, (might be salary issue, or working conditions) so transfer baggage isnt making it on 60-90 conenctions at Dublin.
So you get a build-up of late baggage which cant be accommodated on the smaller ATRs.
 
EI321
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:06 pm

OA260 wrote:
nickya340 wrote:
Shame there’s no black ‘raccoon’ cockpit window on the NEO, would have been nice for a somewhat bland livery.


Was hoping the same just parked next to a IBX A321 and the 'raccoon' really makes it .


I think they should have put it accross the whole fleet, even the ATRs. It would help counterbalance the dark tail area and small logo up front.
 
factsonly
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:10 am

Vueling is adding 2x weekly A321 ORY-SNN from September 12th, 2022.

http://www.aeroroutes.com
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:33 am

The A32N looks great, the bigger green engines, green sharklets and less white body compared to the A321 seem to help. At least in the sun and from that angle. I’m not a massive fan of the mask, I wonder if it would have to be black?

It might be my imagination, but are the titles a bit bigger, or bolder?

Eagleboy wrote:
S0Y wrote:
Apparently golf clubs are especially problematic for EI. Twitter is ablaze with people who do not expect to see their golf clubs again

The issue is due to the partnership with Emerald Airlines.
Skyhandling dont have/cant get the staff, (might be salary issue, or working conditions) so transfer baggage isnt making it on 60-90 conenctions at Dublin.
So you get a build-up of late baggage which cant be accommodated on the smaller ATRs.

Oh dear. My initial thought was “why not send them on mainline to Heathrow, Manchester or wherever?” Then I remembered the chaos that has overtaken most UK airports…. Lost luggage is difficult to deal with at the best of times, right now I imagine it is a complete disaster zone.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2290
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:07 pm

Donegal Airport is delighted to announce that all passengers travelling on the twice daily service to Dublin can now use the Flight Connections Corridor at Dublin Airport. This facility is available to passengers irrespective of which airline they are travelling onwards with.

Self-Connecting passengers, travelling with cabin baggage only, who hold a valid boarding card for any onward flight on the same day, can now use the Flight Connections Corridor to get to their next Departure Gate without the need to clear Immigration and Security Screening channels at Dublin Airport.

https://donegalairport.ie/news/connections-corridor/
_________

I presume this will also apply to KIR or maybe to everyone.
 
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AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2441
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:26 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
Donegal Airport is delighted to announce that all passengers travelling on the twice daily service to Dublin can now use the Flight Connections Corridor at Dublin Airport. This facility is available to passengers irrespective of which airline they are travelling onwards with.

Self-Connecting passengers, travelling with cabin baggage only, who hold a valid boarding card for any onward flight on the same day, can now use the Flight Connections Corridor to get to their next Departure Gate without the need to clear Immigration and Security Screening channels at Dublin Airport.

https://donegalairport.ie/news/connections-corridor/
_________

I presume this will also apply to KIR or maybe to everyone.

Makes perfect sense. They also need to restore the fast track security lane at DUB for all passengers flying domestically to KIR and CFN (obviously once they get their s**t sorted out).
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:49 pm

EI321 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
nickya340 wrote:
Shame there’s no black ‘raccoon’ cockpit window on the NEO, would have been nice for a somewhat bland livery.


Was hoping the same just parked next to a IBX A321 and the 'raccoon' really makes it .


I think they should have put it accross the whole fleet, even the ATRs. It would help counterbalance the dark tail area and small logo up front.


Yes would look great on the ATRs .
 
KIRFlyer
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:03 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
Donegal Airport is delighted to announce that all passengers travelling on the twice daily service to Dublin can now use the Flight Connections Corridor at Dublin Airport. This facility is available to passengers irrespective of which airline they are travelling onwards with.

Self-Connecting passengers, travelling with cabin baggage only, who hold a valid boarding card for any onward flight on the same day, can now use the Flight Connections Corridor to get to their next Departure Gate without the need to clear Immigration and Security Screening channels at Dublin Airport.

https://donegalairport.ie/news/connections-corridor/
_________

I presume this will also apply to KIR or maybe to everyone.


I really hope this is true, and applicable to KIR. I remember self connecting from the KIR-DUB EIR flight onto a DUB-BRS FR flight, and trying to use this facility. I was told “No” by security, and told to go landslide and re-clear security. I was so angry. It was insanely ridiculous that I was prevented from using it.
 
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OA260
Posts: 26441
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:02 am

Good news for BHD .


Belfast City Airport named as most punctual in the UK

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belf ... 291016.amp
 
EI321
Posts: 5121
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:41 pm

OA260 wrote:
EI321 wrote:
OA260 wrote:

Was hoping the same just parked next to a IBX A321 and the 'raccoon' really makes it .


I think they should have put it accross the whole fleet, even the ATRs. It would help counterbalance the dark tail area and small logo up front.


Yes would look great on the ATRs .


SAS and Finnair have put it on their ATRs and they look great. I think leaving the A321LRs without it was a bad idea, not sure if any other airlines have done this.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 10189
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:25 pm

Aer Lingus has a little blurb about its new A320 Neos, coming next month:

https://twitter.com/AerLingus/status/15 ... _ytSaCxb3w

186 seats! Two more rows over and above the current A320 fleet. I think BA has 180 in its fleet. Certainly going to feel a bit of a squeeze!
 
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OA260
Posts: 26441
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:22 pm

The army could be called in to help alleviate security delays if they return at Dublin airport, Minister for Transport Eamon Ryan has said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022 ... ic-period/

I think this is the first time that a government minister has suggested this .
 
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shamrock350
Posts: 5619
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:53 pm

kaitak wrote:
Aer Lingus has a little blurb about its new A320 Neos, coming next month:

https://twitter.com/AerLingus/status/15 ... _ytSaCxb3w

186 seats! Two more rows over and above the current A320 fleet. I think BA has 180 in its fleet. Certainly going to feel a bit of a squeeze!

It’s the same as Iberia and Vueling which will at least be more consistent than the 180 in BA which has seat pitches varying from 28” down the back, 29” in the middle and 30” up front due to the differing seat styles.
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 5573
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:54 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
kaitak wrote:
Aer Lingus has a little blurb about its new A320 Neos, coming next month:

https://twitter.com/AerLingus/status/15 ... _ytSaCxb3w

186 seats! Two more rows over and above the current A320 fleet. I think BA has 180 in its fleet. Certainly going to feel a bit of a squeeze!

It’s the same as Iberia and Vueling which will at least be more consistent than the 180 in BA which has seat pitches varying from 28” down the back, 29” in the middle and 30” up front due to the differing seat styles.


Those different seat styles look pretty bad as well.

It's a shame it's not the current EI seats though, the ones installed across the short-haul fleet are actually very comfortable. It gives one of the unsung benefits to Aer Lingus in my opinion - everyone always says Aer Lingus are better, and apart from the service, no-one really articulates why. I'd say a major part of that is the unsung hero of the piece, which are those comfortable short-haul seats. They're streets ahead of all the current super light weight seats which are like sitting on a timber bench.
 
EI320
Posts: 701
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:00 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:30 pm

I assume the reason they are being deployed on LHR is to avail of lower landing fees.

No surprise they opted for 186Y but it does represent a noticeable degradation in product. Doesn’t matter a great deal on LHR given the short flight time but the discomfort will be quite apparent on longer sectors (2+ hours).
 
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AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2441
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Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:33 pm

EI320 wrote:
I assume the reason they are being deployed on LHR is to avail of lower landing fees.

No surprise they opted for 186Y but it does represent a noticeable degradation in product. Doesn’t matter a great deal on LHR given the short flight time but the discomfort will be quite apparent on longer sectors (2+ hours).

Why does the NEO get lower landing fees at LHR?
 
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shamrock350
Posts: 5619
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:54 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
EI320 wrote:
I assume the reason they are being deployed on LHR is to avail of lower landing fees.

No surprise they opted for 186Y but it does represent a noticeable degradation in product. Doesn’t matter a great deal on LHR given the short flight time but the discomfort will be quite apparent on longer sectors (2+ hours).

Why does the NEO get lower landing fees at LHR?

Heathrow charges higher fees for older aircraft in the form of its environmental levy, it's an incentive to use newer, greener aircraft, the cost difference can be substantial for operators.
 
EI320
Posts: 701
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:00 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:01 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
EI320 wrote:
I assume the reason they are being deployed on LHR is to avail of lower landing fees.

No surprise they opted for 186Y but it does represent a noticeable degradation in product. Doesn’t matter a great deal on LHR given the short flight time but the discomfort will be quite apparent on longer sectors (2+ hours).

Why does the NEO get lower landing fees at LHR?


Landing fees at LHR are in part based on noise level. The NEO would, I assume, qualify for the lowest fee level.

That said, if fuel prices continue to rise, EI will surely be incentivised to deploy these NEOs on the longest sectors where the absolute fuel savings are higher. Fuel savings on long sectors like ACE, TFS, ATH etc would presumably outweigh any fee benefit at LHR.
 
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OA260
Posts: 26441
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:54 am

EI320 wrote:
AmricanShamrok wrote:
EI320 wrote:
I assume the reason they are being deployed on LHR is to avail of lower landing fees.

No surprise they opted for 186Y but it does represent a noticeable degradation in product. Doesn’t matter a great deal on LHR given the short flight time but the discomfort will be quite apparent on longer sectors (2+ hours).

Why does the NEO get lower landing fees at LHR?


Landing fees at LHR are in part based on noise level. The NEO would, I assume, qualify for the lowest fee level.

That said, if fuel prices continue to rise, EI will surely be incentivised to deploy these NEOs on the longest sectors where the absolute fuel savings are higher. Fuel savings on long sectors like ACE, TFS, ATH etc would presumably outweigh any fee benefit at LHR.


I heard they will soft launch on LHR then indeed use in the longer routes. From a business model it makes sense but as already suggested the nicer seats will be missed. Although I will reserve judgement
until my first trip on one.
 
EI320
Posts: 701
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:00 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:49 am

A few observations from my recent travel through DUB.

Arrived at 03:30 for a 05:55 flight to FRA. Staff were on hand outside T1 to direct pax to the appropriate “lane”, i.e., check-in or security. There were no queues outside the terminal, but the whole barrier set-up outside T1 is truly grim. It makes certain decrepit airports in the developing world look civilised and it’s embarrassing that our primary gateway into Ireland has had to resort to such measures.

Cleared Fast Track security in 10 mins and the main queue appeared to be moving well. Lounge didn’t open until 04:00 so I waited around for 10 mins for it to open. The overall atmosphere around the screening area was quite relaxed and stress-free, but this probably 30-60 mins before peak crowds would have arrived.

The T1 lounge is very average. Food selection was limited, the seats aren’t particularly comfortable, and the lighting / views aren’t great. It’s not a lounge worth visiting. I’d rather grab a decent coffee from Butlers and stroll the gate areas or grab a seat in the T1X area with apron views.

The LH crew boarded 30 mins before the scheduled departure time but there was no sign of any boarding agents (Sky Handling). One agent eventually turned up and boarding commenced 20 mins after the scheduled departure time without any explanation or acknowledgement of the delay (the surrounding EI gates appeared fully staffed and flights were leaving on time). The boarding process was unstructured with no J lanes enforced. Boarding took an age as there was only one agent available and there was a slow dribble of pax entering the aircraft. Boarding was complete at STD+50, and then a slot delay was announced. We eventually got off the ground 1h 20 mins late and I missed my connection at FRA.

On the approach to DUB on the return flight, it struck me that the old Quick Park facility is still lying fully vacant despite the huge pressure for parking capacity. Why is this? This surely isn’t acceptable.

The lack of staff at the ground handling firm was again apparent on arrival back in DUB. We arrived bang on time, yet it took 15 mins for an agent to show up to connect the bridge to the aircraft. The Purser was acutely aware of the issues at DUB and the crew were visibly frustrated. On arriving at the T1 taxi rank it struck me how grubby the taxi shelter and the surrounding area looked. As first impressions go, it’s not good.

Overall, a poor experience departing and arriving at DUB despite not encountering security delays. There’s some major investment required in every area across the airport and it’s obvious that the handling agents are severely short-staffed.
 
EISG1129
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:43 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:24 pm

Just to add to EI320's observations regarding recent LH flights into/out of DUB. I was on the LH983 to FRA this morning at 05:55. I received a quite courteous email from LH on Thursday, indicating there have been delays in some areas of Dublin Airport recently, stating bag drop will be open from 2.30am and that they looked forward to welcoming me even at such an early hour. I arrived at 2.30am, was asked which airline I was flying with and if I had a bag to drop off, before being permitted straight into the building. FR passengers with bags to drop off appeared to be getting asked to queue in covered barriered lanes outside the building.

I joined the LH queue at the check in desks at area 9. It took until 4.30am to drop off the check in bag. A staff member from the handling agent didn't surface until 3.15am and opened up the business class desk, before then being joined by 2 colleagues a while later. The 4 machines for self service tagging of bags were activated at 3.15am but kept acting up and rejecting bags so people had to join the queue to see a person.

From a customer perspective, it's not unreasonable that if LH send an email saying that desks will open at 2.30am that their handling agent actually open them then, and that it's not 3.15am when a staff member opens a desk. The flight was full so sufficient desks should be opened.

Perhaps it's indicative of the handling agent having insufficient staff at the moment or a particularly high absence rate, I can only speculate in that regard. However, if it had been my first time flying with LH, it would not have been a good first impression of the airline to be asked to show up at 2.30am, only to be left standing there until 3.15am without explanation before somebody came out and opened a desk, and for it to take 2 hours to drop off a bag.

T1 security, while busy, was moving. I was through in 25 minutes. Staff were proactive in reminding people to get liquids out of bags, use multiple trays if necessary and were impeccably polite.
 
PhilipBass
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:30 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:37 pm

Ya, what you gonna do. Lufthansa have DUB-FRA almost to themselves now with no competition from FR and EI in retreat.
If FRA is your destination then tough. If using it to transfer then you have to find another carrier/hub.
 
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AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2441
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:54 pm

KIRFlyer wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Donegal Airport is delighted to announce that all passengers travelling on the twice daily service to Dublin can now use the Flight Connections Corridor at Dublin Airport. This facility is available to passengers irrespective of which airline they are travelling onwards with.

Self-Connecting passengers, travelling with cabin baggage only, who hold a valid boarding card for any onward flight on the same day, can now use the Flight Connections Corridor to get to their next Departure Gate without the need to clear Immigration and Security Screening channels at Dublin Airport.

https://donegalairport.ie/news/connections-corridor/
_________

I presume this will also apply to KIR or maybe to everyone.


I really hope this is true, and applicable to KIR. I remember self connecting from the KIR-DUB EIR flight onto a DUB-BRS FR flight, and trying to use this facility. I was told “No” by security, and told to go landslide and re-clear security. I was so angry. It was insanely ridiculous that I was prevented from using it.

Yes, applicable to KIR-DUB connecting passengers also.

https://flyinginireland.com/2022/06/ker ... at-dublin/
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2290
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:25 pm

EISG1129 wrote:
Just to add to EI320's observations regarding recent LH flights into/out of DUB. I was on the LH983 to FRA this morning at 05:55. I received a quite courteous email from LH on Thursday, indicating there have been delays in some areas of Dublin Airport recently, stating bag drop will be open from 2.30am and that they looked forward to welcoming me even at such an early hour. I arrived at 2.30am, was asked which airline I was flying with and if I had a bag to drop off, before being permitted straight into the building. FR passengers with bags to drop off appeared to be getting asked to queue in covered barriered lanes outside the building.

I joined the LH queue at the check in desks at area 9. It took until 4.30am to drop off the check in bag. A staff member from the handling agent didn't surface until 3.15am and opened up the business class desk, before then being joined by 2 colleagues a while later. The 4 machines for self service tagging of bags were activated at 3.15am but kept acting up and rejecting bags so people had to join the queue to see a person.

From a customer perspective, it's not unreasonable that if LH send an email saying that desks will open at 2.30am that their handling agent actually open them then, and that it's not 3.15am when a staff member opens a desk. The flight was full so sufficient desks should be opened.

Perhaps it's indicative of the handling agent having insufficient staff at the moment or a particularly high absence rate, I can only speculate in that regard. However, if it had been my first time flying with LH, it would not have been a good first impression of the airline to be asked to show up at 2.30am, only to be left standing there until 3.15am without explanation before somebody came out and opened a desk, and for it to take 2 hours to drop off a bag.

T1 security, while busy, was moving. I was through in 25 minutes. Staff were proactive in reminding people to get liquids out of bags, use multiple trays if necessary and were impeccably polite.


Not sure the handling agent is at fault here...

Check-in from 03:15 opened on time and showing up at 02.30 goes against daa advise. Had LH asked for 02:30 they woud probally get it as LH would be one of there largest clients even with staffing issues.
 
DalRiada
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:30 pm

Re: Irish 6/22: Brought to you by the letter "Q"

Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:33 am

JAmie2k9 wrote:
EISG1129 wrote:
Just to add to EI320's observations regarding recent LH flights into/out of DUB. I was on the LH983 to FRA this morning at 05:55. I received a quite courteous email from LH on Thursday, indicating there have been delays in some areas of Dublin Airport recently, stating bag drop will be open from 2.30am and that they looked forward to welcoming me even at such an early hour. I arrived at 2.30am, was asked which airline I was flying with and if I had a bag to drop off, before being permitted straight into the building. FR passengers with bags to drop off appeared to be getting asked to queue in covered barriered lanes outside the building.

I joined the LH queue at the check in desks at area 9. It took until 4.30am to drop off the check in bag. A staff member from the handling agent didn't surface until 3.15am and opened up the business class desk, before then being joined by 2 colleagues a while later. The 4 machines for self service tagging of bags were activated at 3.15am but kept acting up and rejecting bags so people had to join the queue to see a person.

From a customer perspective, it's not unreasonable that if LH send an email saying that desks will open at 2.30am that their handling agent actually open them then, and that it's not 3.15am when a staff member opens a desk. The flight was full so sufficient desks should be opened.

Perhaps it's indicative of the handling agent having insufficient staff at the moment or a particularly high absence rate, I can only speculate in that regard. However, if it had been my first time flying with LH, it would not have been a good first impression of the airline to be asked to show up at 2.30am, only to be left standing there until 3.15am without explanation before somebody came out and opened a desk, and for it to take 2 hours to drop off a bag.

T1 security, while busy, was moving. I was through in 25 minutes. Staff were proactive in reminding people to get liquids out of bags, use multiple trays if necessary and were impeccably polite.


Not sure the handling agent is at fault here...

Check-in from 03:15 opened on time and showing up at 02.30 goes against daa advise. Had LH asked for 02:30 they woud probally get it as LH would be one of there largest clients even with staffing issues.



If your airline instructs you to turn up at 02:30 then the least you can expect is that their handling agents are ready to go at 02.30.

LH probably asked daa for dispensation for their pax seeing as they were let into the terminal that early whereas FR pax were asked to wait outside.

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