Australian Aviation Thread - June 2022

melpax · Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:40 pm

zkncj wrote:
I think we might see QF return to AKL-PER once there a321XLR’s start to come online.

Twice daily with an XLR would probably be an good fit for PER-AKL, giving a morning and evening departure option.

At the pre covid peak, NZ was flying AKL-PER double daily with an 789. So they must be some demand there to fill 787s.

A lot of the AKL-PER demand pre-COVID was from FIFO workers commuting to the WA mines from NZ. I suspect a lot of those workers have had to become WA residents over the last couple of years to keep their jobs, similar to the FIFO workforce that previously commuted from the Eastern states.

EK413 · Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:17 pm

-ZNF well on its way operating the inaugural QF5 PER-FCO service with a minor delay.

Flight QF5 from Perth to Rome
https://fr24.com/QFA5/2c5995d5

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ben175 · Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:56 pm

EK413 wrote:
-ZNF well on its way operating the inaugural QF5 PER-FCO service with a minor delay.

Flight QF5 from Perth to Rome
https://fr24.com/QFA5/2c5995d5

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honestly, this is a great milestone by QF that should be celebrated, especially in a time where they are getting such horrific press.

I would love to rummage through the threads from 7-10 years ago when people said pigs would fly before PER-LHR would eventuate. Now there are 10 non stop services from WA to Europe for the busy summer period. Pretty amazing.

x1234 · Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:53 pm

Is the competiton fierce with lower prices with the US3/AC on SYD/MEL/BNE-LAX/SFO/YVR versus the Kangaroo Route via Asia? The cheapest ticket price on the Kangaroo Route was via the CN3/Air India with the SE Asian and ME3 more expensive. Is this the reason with QF A380's on SYD-SIN-LHR, competiton with Emirates/Singapore for the Kangaroo Route with a more premium product?

RyanairGuru · Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:23 pm

x1234 wrote:
Is the competiton fierce with lower prices with the US3/AC on SYD/MEL/BNE-LAX/SFO/YVR versus the Kangaroo Route via Asia? The cheapest ticket price on the Kangaroo Route was via the CN3/Air India with the SE Asian and ME3 more expensive. Is this the reason with QF A380's on SYD-SIN-LHR, competiton with Emirates/Singapore for the Kangaroo Route with a more premium product?

The US routes have always been more lucrative overall as they have less competition, but QF aren’t competing with CZ or AI. QF charge a premium price for their product and are pretty consistently one of the most expensive options on the Kangaroo Route, generally charging more than the likes of SQ and ME3. The price premium is especially pronounced in W and J, more so than Y.

Their pricing premium comes from having such a dominant control over frequent flyers and corporate contracts in Australia, not because many people perceive them as superior, or even comparable, to SQ et al.

They’re not using the A380s for a ‘premium product’ (the products are identical on the 787s and refurbished A380s) but because there’s adequate demand at the prices they charge, combined with not enough 787s so they have to send the A380s somewhere.

ZK-NBT · Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:43 pm

melpax wrote:
zkncj wrote:
I think we might see QF return to AKL-PER once there a321XLR’s start to come online.

Twice daily with an XLR would probably be an good fit for PER-AKL, giving a morning and evening departure option.

At the pre covid peak, NZ was flying AKL-PER double daily with an 789. So they must be some demand there to fill 787s.

A lot of the AKL-PER demand pre-COVID was from FIFO workers commuting to the WA mines from NZ. I suspect a lot of those workers have had to become WA residents over the last couple of years to keep their jobs, similar to the FIFO workforce that previously commuted from the Eastern states.

NZ ran 10 weekly max AKL-PER in NW and 2 CHC-PER. QF wouldn’t run 2 daily or anywhere near, maybe daily at most.

qf2048 · Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:19 pm

Is there any chance QF could put A380 PER-LHR when all the A380's come back into service? It's similar distance to AKL-DOH. Now that QF1/2 is back to A380 they could cycle them through LHR. Perth is supposably one of the most popular and profitable routes for them. No idea if it would require payload restrictions so may not be economical? Would free up some 787's though.

Velocity7 · Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:32 pm

EK413 wrote:
-ZNF well on its way operating the inaugural QF5 PER-FCO service with a minor delay.

Flight QF5 from Perth to Rome
https://fr24.com/QFA5/2c5995d5

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting they are using the old SYD-SIN-FRA flight number which was axed in 2013 (and the last to serve continental Europe regularly at the time)

NZ516 · Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:36 pm

ArtV wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
On the A380 front, I've missed the entire discussion re the A380 return to service so sorry for the following probably dumb questions. Is it absolutely 100% confirmed that only 10 of the 12 will return given the bounce back in demand or is there wiggle room for the extra 2 to come back as well (assuming it is 10 currently planned)?

The fist of the A380's has already been partly scrapped, so no hope for 2 of these to return. 10 is the max we will see return

Ten A380s are to return correct, that gives Qantas room for a new route too. After SYD-LAX, MEL-LAX and SYD-SIN-LHR are all returned daily.
There will still be 3 to operate another service perhaps SFO or a return to DFW. Not sure if HKG will see the A380 again.

tullamarine · Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:39 pm

I was in the understanding that QF still had a couple of slots that they'd leased back to BA. Is this still the case? If so, that would help. Otherwise the options left would be: SWZ-LGW or maybe SYD-MAN.

They do but that takes them back up to 4. Pre-COVID, they were only using 2, (QF1/2 and QF9/10). Adding 2 PS flights would mean all 4 slots are used.

Is there any chance QF could put A380 PER-LHR when all the A380's come back into service?

It is theoretically possible though was possible pre-COVID when QF was saying how busy PER-LHR was. They didn't do it then so can't imagine them doing it now.

Would the use of A340's also have been due to CASA's overly cautious approach to ETOPS back then? PER-JNB is shorter than SYD-PEK which is flown with A330 so can't see why this wouldn't be scheduled with a regular A330.

Yes, until about 5 years ago, ETOPS rules made twins to South Africa from AU unattractive as the routing was pushed north. That is the main reason VA pulled out of its MEL-JNB 77W service. The routing they were made to fly meant it took 2 hours longer than it would have were it flown on a A346.

PER-AKL would be a great 321XLR route! Again opportunity to feed into LHR,JNB,FCO at the right yield. Here is hoping for CPT and CDG next.

Realistically, if you are heading to LHR from AKL, there is nothing particularly attractive about going via PER. It is 600kms further than doing the same flight via SIN or via LAX. If you were doing either of these alternative routes, you'd be on a widebody all the way which is likely an improvement over being in a A321 for 7.5 hours.

aerohottie · Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:42 pm

qf2048 wrote:
Is there any chance QF could put A380 PER-LHR when all the A380's come back into service? It's similar distance to AKL-DOH. Now that QF1/2 is back to A380 they could cycle them through LHR. Perth is supposably one of the most popular and profitable routes for them. No idea if it would require payload restrictions so may not be economical? Would free up some 787's though.

I was thinking this myself the other day. Would also free up a 787 for another route

smi0006 · Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:53 pm

aerohottie wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Is there any chance QF could put A380 PER-LHR when all the A380's come back into service? It's similar distance to AKL-DOH. Now that QF1/2 is back to A380 they could cycle them through LHR. Perth is supposably one of the most popular and profitable routes for them. No idea if it would require payload restrictions so may not be economical? Would free up some 787's though.

I was thinking this myself the other day. Would also free up a 787 for another route

Could the QF terminal handle a 380? Pax loads would be extremely difficult for the terminal - but pavement loadings and aero bridges could be a non-starter!

Moving the LHR flight back to the international would undermine QFs posturing against PAPL - plus no lounge and challenging connectivity.

SCFlyer · Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:06 am

kriskim wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
If QF have SYD-LHR and MEL-LHR taking all of the premium pax from the SYD-SIN-LHR service, how does the SIN-LHR service continue? To me Project Sunrise directly cannibalises what makes SYD-SIN-LHR profitable so I'd not be surprised that the second PER-LHR is routed BNE-PER-LHR. That could also make sense given the pre-covid positioning of the 787's in BNE for LAX / SFO / ORD etc. Otherwise QF needs more LHR slots.

Surely if BNE-PER-LHR was going to be a thing, it would be the first PER-LHR route given MEL-PER-LHR will no longer be required in a PS world. There is still no obvious justification for a second flight. Even then, there is the issue that BNE-PER-LHR is 1000kms (over 1 hour flight time) longer than BNE-SIN-LHR so it sort of begs the question of why?

I believe there is still justification for an A380, or maybe in the future a less premium heavy A35K to operate via SIN. The Sunrise A350s are premium heavy so unless QF is prepared to say to Australians that it really isn't interested in carrying many Y pax so look elsewhere, I don't know how they can eliminate the service. In addition, they would still be able to carry F & J pax originating in BNE, SYD, SIN and potentially ADL if ADL-SIN becomes a A321XLR route.

I cannot see QF getting an additional suitable LHR slot unless they are prepared to pay some serious money, probably $100M+. There is no justification for it to be granted an additional slot for access reasons such as sometimes occurs for new market entrants given it already has 4 so an additional slot will have to be bought from another airline.

Why does QF (post Project Sunrise) need a domestic tag for PER-LHR at all? Can’t they just base a 787 in Perth, I’m sure there will be future routes to Europe. There can be some ad hoc domestic flights to rotate the aircraft.

Maintenance for the 787s are done in MEL plus BNE was a 787 base pre-COVID with LAX/SFO and the planned ORD flights.
Only chance of QF making PER a 787 base is either if QF themselves and/or the WA Government/Premier McGowan are willing to put in the $$ to put a 787 maintenace base or just a plain 787 crew base here.

For now, however it makes no sense to tow a 787 aircraft between international and domestic in BNE when you can just leave it at the Int'l terminal and schedule it through to PER.

BNE-PER-LHR doesn't necessarily need to be the same flight number either. The 787 (or A330) from BNE could be a different service e.g BNE-PER-JNB as a previous poster pointed out, with the handful travelling BNE-PER-LHR, or BNE-PER-(other International destinations) clearing outbound immigration in BNE and only needing to reclear security in PER.

SCFlyer · Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:16 am

Deano969 wrote:
Population growth on the Sunny Coast is one of the fastest in the country, growing by close to 10% year on year
Mostly from Sydney and Melbourne, so family connections will drive more growth
It wont be long before destinations such as
Perth, Bali, Fiji and more destinations in NZ are added
SQ may even have a look for European connections

SQ to MCY is extremely unlikely. If SQ as a group looks at MCY, it'll most likely will be a TR 787, and they may potentially treat their existing OOL service plus potential MCY service as "Scoot flies daily to Singapore from South East Queensland", and treating both as one market rather as separate markets.

It could operate as split schedule as well, OOL operates the daytime departure whilst MCY does the late evening departure (before MCY's curfew), arriving into SIN at 4am or thereabout for the morning bank of ex-SIN departures on TR.

Deano969 wrote:
So why dig up and sell off a major asset for a quick buck?

If I recall correctly, the old runway had load restriction issues for longer domestic flights depending on weather conditions. From memory, MCY's old 18/36 was only long enough for short haul flights to SYD at full MTOW for most (if not all) weather conditions.

RyanairGuru · Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:28 am

PER-LHR is over 400mi longer than DFW-SYD which already took a weight penalty. This is going back several years, but IIRC it was said on these threads that QF blocked about 70 seats westbound in northern winter. I suspect that PER-LHR would require at least that amount westbound, if not more due to inefficient routing through the Middle East. As already pointed out, it also would also be impractical to operate an A380 from PER T3.

As for the ‘spare’ A380s once they are all back, HKG is probably on the back burner for years, but MEL-SIN was an A380 seasonally pre-Covid and that could be a good place to park an aircraft. Otherwise DFW or SFO seem like the ‘least bad’ options. Left field, but also in the ‘least bad’ camp could be BNE-LAX, at least for high season. This would free up a couple of high MTOW A330s for seasonal SYD-DEL and possible high season frequency increase on PER-JNB. This assumes that BNE-SFO doesn’t launch and BNE-LAX doesn’t go to 10 weekly seasonally.

smi0006 · Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:26 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
PER-LHR is over 400mi longer than DFW-SYD which already took a weight penalty. This is going back several years, but IIRC it was said on these threads that QF blocked about 70 seats westbound in northern winter. I suspect that PER-LHR would require at least that amount westbound, if not more due to inefficient routing through the Middle East. As already pointed out, it also would also be impractical to operate an A380 from PER T3.

As for the ‘spare’ A380s once they are all back, HKG is probably on the back burner for years, but MEL-SIN was an A380 seasonally pre-Covid and that could be a good place to park an aircraft. Otherwise DFW or SFO seem like the ‘least bad’ options. Left field, but also in the ‘least bad’ camp could be BNE-LAX, at least for high season. This would free up a couple of high MTOW A330s for seasonal SYD-DEL and possible high season frequency increase on PER-JNB. This assumes that BNE-SFO doesn’t launch and BNE-LAX doesn’t go to 10 weekly seasonally.

Another random option - how is EK going with their crew shortages? Would a QF 380 MEL/SYD-DXB as part of the JV with EK work to backfill some of their capacity with low risk capacity into Europe? Especially whilst Asian demand is suppressed? Given I never thought we’d see QF fly into India or ICN even FCO in the short term lots of curious potential

Deano969 · Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:47 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Deano969 wrote:
Population growth on the Sunny Coast is one of the fastest in the country, growing by close to 10% year on year
Mostly from Sydney and Melbourne, so family connections will drive more growth
It wont be long before destinations such as
Perth, Bali, Fiji and more destinations in NZ are added
SQ may even have a look for European connections

SQ to MCY is extremely unlikely. If SQ as a group looks at MCY, it'll most likely will be a TR 787, and they may potentially treat their existing OOL service plus potential MCY service as "Scoot flies daily to Singapore from South East Queensland", and treating both as one market rather as separate markets.

It could operate as split schedule as well, OOL operates the daytime departure whilst MCY does the late evening departure (before MCY's curfew), arriving into SIN at 4am or thereabout for the morning bank of ex-SIN departures on TR.

Deano969 wrote:
So why dig up and sell off a major asset for a quick buck?

If I recall correctly, the old runway had load restriction issues for longer domestic flights depending on weather conditions. From memory, MCY's old 18/36 was only long enough for short haul flights to SYD at full MTOW for most (if not all) weather conditions.

MCY has more than their fare share of GA opps, way more than say OOL or BNK
Most arrivals could still use the old runway for arrivals if prevailing conditions restrict the new runway
Even with the new runway open, there are still diversions to BNE due to weather

It seems that only in Oz do we rip up runways and put all our eggs in 1 basket
Brisbane is another example with them closing a cross runway

How, for example, would SYD cope in August if they ripped up 07/25?
I understand that 737s and A320s and others can handle 30+ knot crosswinds, but can the smaller GA planes do the same ?
Plenty of smaller airports maintain 2 runways for just such situations
Townsville
Rockhampton
Gold Coast
Coffs Harbour
Canberra
Darwin

Goodbye · Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:32 am

SCFlyer wrote:
If I recall correctly, the old runway had load restriction issues for longer domestic flights depending on weather conditions. From memory, MCY's old 18/36 was only long enough for short haul flights to SYD at full MTOW for most (if not all) weather conditions.

Not to mention the David Low Way at each end, and the lack of parallel taxiways, the 18/36 runway was limited in so many ways.

mwrgh · Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:47 am

As someone who has flown Brisbane - Europe a few times, Perth just doesn't make sense as a place to change planes.

If you're a tourist taking a break in between flights somewhere like Singapore or Bangkok is going to be more enjoyable/cheaper than Perth. If/when Russian airspace and China reopen there will be even more options. I used to like going via Seoul.

If you're flying business or are a tourist who wants to fly straight through in addition to the shorter flying time there are way more flights via Singapore so you're less likely to be stuck if your connecting flight gets cancelled.

smi0006 · Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:29 am

F100Flyer wrote:
After many arguments and delays, it seems that QF look set to formally announce PER-JNB this week.

3 times weekly starting Nov 1 with A332.

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviation/qa ... -c-7238519

Speculation is also announcement of a second daily PER-LHR service.

Does SQ fly SIN-JNB? Did SA ever fly to HKG? Wonder if PER could be a good connection point between Asia and JNB (Southern Africa) also as the Asian market rebounds. DXB/DOH/AUH always seem along way North for Southern African connections

ZK-NBT · Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:40 am

smi0006 wrote:
F100Flyer wrote:
After many arguments and delays, it seems that QF look set to formally announce PER-JNB this week.

3 times weekly starting Nov 1 with A332.

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviation/qa ... -c-7238519

Speculation is also announcement of a second daily PER-LHR service.

Does SQ fly SIN-JNB? Did SA ever fly to HKG? Wonder if PER could be a good connection point between Asia and JNB (Southern Africa) also as the Asian market rebounds. DXB/DOH/AUH always seem along way North for Southern African connections

SQ fly to JNB, was a daily A359, a few days extends to CPT. SA flew a daily usually A343 to HKG,CX flew a daily 77W to JNB. Not sure PER would be all that different to DXB/DOH/AUH would it?

smi0006 · Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:53 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
F100Flyer wrote:
After many arguments and delays, it seems that QF look set to formally announce PER-JNB this week.

3 times weekly starting Nov 1 with A332.

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviation/qa ... -c-7238519

Speculation is also announcement of a second daily PER-LHR service.

Does SQ fly SIN-JNB? Did SA ever fly to HKG? Wonder if PER could be a good connection point between Asia and JNB (Southern Africa) also as the Asian market rebounds. DXB/DOH/AUH always seem along way North for Southern African connections

SQ fly to JNB, was a daily A359, a few days extends to CPT. SA flew a daily usually A343 to HKG,CX flew a daily 77W to JNB. Not sure PER would be all that different to DXB/DOH/AUH would it?

Ahh interesting- didn’t realise the non-stop connectivity was so good!

Qf648 · Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:12 am

smi0006 wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Is there any chance QF could put A380 PER-LHR when all the A380's come back into service? It's similar distance to AKL-DOH. Now that QF1/2 is back to A380 they could cycle them through LHR. Perth is supposably one of the most popular and profitable routes for them. No idea if it would require payload restrictions so may not be economical? Would free up some 787's though.

I was thinking this myself the other day. Would also free up a 787 for another route

Could the QF terminal handle a 380? Pax loads would be extremely difficult for the terminal - but pavement loadings and aero bridges could be a non-starter!

Moving the LHR flight back to the international would undermine QFs posturing against PAPL - plus no lounge and challenging connectivity.

T3 and T4 wouldn't be able to handle a 380. Width wise it wouldn't be an issues but there would only be one airbridge to load the plane.

And if the 380 can do it, why wouldnt have qantas done it years ago?

Gemuser · Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:30 am

tullamarine wrote:
Would the use of A340's also have been due to CASA's overly cautious approach to ETOPS back then? PER-JNB is shorter than SYD-PEK which is flown with A330 so can't see why this wouldn't be scheduled with a regular A330.

Yes, until about 5 years ago, ETOPS rules made twins to South Africa from AU unattractive as the routing was pushed north. That is the main reason VA pulled out of its MEL-JNB 77W service. The routing they were made to fly meant it took 2 hours longer than it would have were it flown on a A346.

Not quite right tullamarine, EDTO made South Africa unattractive from EASTERN Australia, PER-JNB was quite doable with ETDO 180 with a 100/200nm deviation towards Mauritius.

Gemuser

ZK-NBT · Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:49 am

Qf648 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
I was thinking this myself the other day. Would also free up a 787 for another route

Could the QF terminal handle a 380? Pax loads would be extremely difficult for the terminal - but pavement loadings and aero bridges could be a non-starter!

Moving the LHR flight back to the international would undermine QFs posturing against PAPL - plus no lounge and challenging connectivity.

T3 and T4 wouldn't be able to handle a 380. Width wise it wouldn't be an issues but there would only be one airbridge to load the plane.

And if the 380 can do it, why wouldnt have qantas done it years ago?

PER-LHR only started in October 2018, hardly enough time to upgauge to an A380 given the events that took place from March 2020. It seems like it can’t happen anyway with the QF PER terminal Double daily sounds like a push given the fleet shortages QF are facing. They need the A380s to go somewhere long haul where their range is utilised.

pommy80 · Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:48 pm

Officially announced. Also resuming Perth to Jakarta, 3 weekly.

Perth – Jakarta eff 30NOV22 3 weekly 737-800 (Last served until October 2008)
QF053 PER1905 – 2235CGK 73H 357
QF054 CGK2355 – 0510+1PER 73H 357

Perth – Johannesburg eff 01NOV22 3 weekly A330-200 (Last served until October 2003)
QF065 PER1500 – 2015JNB 332 246
QF066 JNB2200 – 1355+1PER 332 246

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220623-qfnw22per

EK413 · Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:30 pm

Velocity7 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
-ZNF well on its way operating the inaugural QF5 PER-FCO service with a minor delay.

Flight QF5 from Perth to Rome
https://fr24.com/QFA5/2c5995d5

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting they are using the old SYD-SIN-FRA flight number which was axed in 2013 (and the last to serve continental Europe regularly at the time)

Yes, interesting to see which flight number they use if FRA does make a return. The QF5 was a popular flight for our family returning to Europe transiting via FRA & onto OPO.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

smi0006 · Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:49 pm

pommy80 wrote:
Officially announced. Also resuming Perth to Jakarta, 3 weekly.

Perth – Jakarta eff 30NOV22 3 weekly 737-800 (Last served until October 2008)
QF053 PER1905 – 2235CGK 73H 357
QF054 CGK2355 – 0510+1PER 73H 357

Perth – Johannesburg eff 01NOV22 3 weekly A330-200 (Last served until October 2003)
QF065 PER1500 – 2015JNB 332 246
QF066 JNB2200 – 1355+1PER 332 246

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220623-qfnw22per

Didn’t expect CGK - but really makes perfect sense, wonder how long their 738 will compete with a GA 330. Any other routes we could see added ex-PER? DEL?

qf2220 · Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:17 pm

EK413 wrote:
Velocity7 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
-ZNF well on its way operating the inaugural QF5 PER-FCO service with a minor delay.

Flight QF5 from Perth to Rome
https://fr24.com/QFA5/2c5995d5

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting they are using the old SYD-SIN-FRA flight number which was axed in 2013 (and the last to serve continental Europe regularly at the time)

Yes, interesting to see which flight number they use if FRA does make a return. The QF5 was a popular flight for our family returning to Europe transiting via FRA & onto OPO.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Out of interest (and its before my time), does anyone have a list of flight numbers into Europe that QF has used over time? Is there any method?

georgiabill · Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:18 pm

Sorry if I missed this, has Qantas served Rome before? If so when? I would have thought FRA would have been second destination in europe to return. Any chance of QF trying ATH or IST from PER?

SCFlyer · Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:17 am

georgiabill wrote:
Sorry if I missed this, has Qantas served Rome before? If so when? I would have thought FRA would have been second destination in europe to return. Any chance of QF trying ATH or IST from PER?

QF15/16 ex SYD or MEL to FCO (via SIN) during the 90s on 743s.

vhebb · Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:28 am

It was via BKK for most of the 90s

EK413 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:40 am

georgiabill wrote:
Sorry if I missed this, has Qantas served Rome before? If so when? I would have thought FRA would have been second destination in europe to return. Any chance of QF trying ATH or IST from PER?

Heres a link of the old QF International network flight numbers.

QF15/16 was MEL-SYD-BKK-ATH-FCO

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... s-network/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EK413 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:42 am

smi0006 wrote:
pommy80 wrote:
Officially announced. Also resuming Perth to Jakarta, 3 weekly.

Perth – Jakarta eff 30NOV22 3 weekly 737-800 (Last served until October 2008)
QF053 PER1905 – 2235CGK 73H 357
QF054 CGK2355 – 0510+1PER 73H 357

Perth – Johannesburg eff 01NOV22 3 weekly A330-200 (Last served until October 2003)
QF065 PER1500 – 2015JNB 332 246
QF066 JNB2200 – 1355+1PER 332 246

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220623-qfnw22per

Didn’t expect CGK - but really makes perfect sense, wonder how long their 738 will compete with a GA 330. Any other routes we could see added ex-PER? DEL?

Im finding myself eating my own words this morning. Where on earth did PER-CGK come from! Anything to do with Albanese strengthening ties with Indonesia?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BA941 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:45 am

When Qantas changed its flight numbers in 1974 (Prior to chat Europe flights used flight numbers in the 700s, e.g QF731, QF733 etc) QF5 and QF6 were first used on flights from Melbourne and Sydney to Rome via Bangkok and Athens - so the flight numbers are back where they started.

On the A380 - it was used permanently on Melbourne to Singapore pre-Covid, which allowed Qantas to sell First Class on the Melbourne to London route as it historically has always done. I’d expect the A380 to return to Melbourne Singapore again as the 4th route for that plane

On Melbourne to London it looks like QF have reduced the QF9 service to just 4 days a week for the Northern Winter. It will operate daily from Perth so it sounds like a shortage of 789s has meant quick turnarounds are required in Perth 3 days a week. Happy to be corrected if wrong but Melbourne looks a little neglected there as Covid period aside, there have always been daily London services on QF from Melbourne since 1970

BA941 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:31 am

On an earlier post about historical Qantas flight numbers on European flights I have access to that information dating back to the 60s. They have chopped and changed a lot. Funnily, QF5 and 6 was originally Rome and QF15 and QF16 was originally Frankfurt. They got swapped around in the 80s. QF7 and QF8 started out as London via Perth and Bombay. QF9 and 10 began life as flights from
Brisbane and Townsville to Los Angeles via Honolulu before being briefly used on Melbourne via Adelaide to London and then on Manchester flights before being used on London flights again …. Just a flavour. Too many changes to list here … but can dig out more info if you have a specific question

rfarlz · Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:34 am

I can't see any mention of which terminal the new JNB and CGK flights will use at PER in the QF press release. My guess is that the JNB flights will use T3, especially with the mention of connections from other cities. I'd expect CGK to have a much smaller proportion of connecting traffic, so perhaps it wasn't worth the fight with PAPL and will operate from T1.

A350OZ · Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:34 am

BA941 wrote:
On the A380 - it was used permanently on Melbourne to Singapore pre-Covid, which allowed Qantas to sell First Class on the Melbourne to London route as it historically has always done. I’d expect the A380 to return to Melbourne Singapore again as the 4th route for that plane

That’s not correct. After FRA was culled the QF5/6 remained as the 2nd SYD-SIN rotation for a while at least (just without the extension to FRA). Not sure if equipment but probably mostly 333s with peak A380s?

The MEL-SIN A380 rotation was QF35/36, with the second rotation on A333 a flight number in the 30s also.

A350OZ · Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:37 am

smi0006 wrote:
F100Flyer wrote:
After many arguments and delays, it seems that QF look set to formally announce PER-JNB this week.

3 times weekly starting Nov 1 with A332.

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviation/qa ... -c-7238519

Speculation is also announcement of a second daily PER-LHR service.

Does SQ fly SIN-JNB? Did SA ever fly to HKG? Wonder if PER could be a good connection point between Asia and JNB (Southern Africa) also as the Asian market rebounds. DXB/DOH/AUH always seem along way North for Southern African connections

To SIN the routing via PER is same distance as via DXB. To HKG it is significantly longer via PER (7739nm) vs via DXB (6652nm).

BA941 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:40 am

What’s not correct? When QF swapped QF1 and QF9 to being via Singapore and Perth respectively in lieu of Dubai they introduced the A380 on QF35 from Melbourne to allow transfers to QF1 and maintain a first class option from Melbourne

If you are querying the QF5 flight number it’s origins date back to 1974 on flights to Rome. At that time Frankfurt was still served on the London flights on about 4 days of the week, so QF1 was the flight number to Frankfurt

qf789 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:24 am

Press conference from this morning’s PER flight announcement

https://twitter.com/9newsperth/status/1 ... NcDUgCvi2w

A couple of noteworthy things

CGK initially starting at 3 weekly but will increase to 5 weekly once extra slots at CGK are gained
PER-LHR is seeing stronger demand than pre Covid, a350 to replace 789 on the route when they arrive, AJ said PER-LHR is here to stay once Sunrise flights take off
The A220/A321XLR coming online will open up opportunities to HKG, Vietnam and India

qf789 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:39 am

BITRE for April has been released today

https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/default/ ... y_0422.pdf

Across the board there has been an improvement on passenger numbers

Highlights

Both Air India and Air Canada continue to do well
Bamboo loads were similar to JQ and VN in the mid 50's
ME3 did will with loads in the 80's and 90's
Flights to New Zealand saw Air new Zealand with loads of 95% while Qantas and Jetstar came in a couple % lower
Qantas continues to do well with YVR, DEL and JNB. LHR flights performed stronger for the month

smi0006 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:44 am

qf789 wrote:
Press conference from this morning’s PER flight announcement

https://twitter.com/9newsperth/status/1 ... NcDUgCvi2w

A couple of noteworthy things

CGK initially starting at 3 weekly but will increase to 5 weekly once extra slots at CGK are gained
PER-LHR is seeing stronger demand than pre Covid, a350 to replace 789 on the route when they arrive, AJ said PER-LHR is here to stay once Sunrise flights take off
The A220/A321XLR coming online will open up opportunities to HKG, Vietnam and India

Interesting to note from AJ - FCO performing above expectations also. I believe I saw that its confirmed it's coming back next season- wonder if it could go year round?

Premier also mentioned working to connect other locations in Europe. Shame QF doesn't have the frames. Premier very passionate on India non-stop. DEL, or BOM?

Interesting to note - constructive dialogue with PAPL now, and looking to continue to build international growth now. I wonder when they will start looking at terminal expansion and integration, must be time to start more detailed plans, and commitments. WA - hatchet burried between AJ and Mcgowan, jokes shared.

qf789 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:47 am

On top of the PER announcements Qantas has provided a market update today

JQ CEO Gareth Evans has announced to step down at the end of this year, a replacement will be announced in due course
Domestic flights across the group will be cut another 5% on top of the already 10% announced last month for July and August to combat rising fuel prices
Even with cuts the groups domestic flying is above 100% pre covid
International flying is tipped to be about 70% of pre covid by end of 1Q23. Once more A380's come back online 4Q23 should rise to 90% pre covid

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... june-2022/

angusjt · Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:24 am

Perth to Jakarta is a fun one, any word on Garuda resuming the route themselves? I can't recall seeing one of their planes at PER in the last few months

vhebb · Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:53 am

Regarding the QF A380s I can see them being used on the daily QF35/36 MEL-SIN-MEL service. Will also enable them to rotate aircraft with MEL-LAX-MEL A380.

This will free up a much needed A330 to be used elsewhere.

tullamarine · Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:22 am

angusjt wrote:
Perth to Jakarta is a fun one, any word on Garuda resuming the route themselves? I can't recall seeing one of their planes at PER in the last few months

Garuda has only reactivated about 1/4 of their fleet with most AU routes except SYD-CGK still not flying. If you visit CGK, you see parked GA planes everywhere.

I do not understand QF's comments about waiting to increase PER-CGK until they get more slots. As someone who visits CGK regularly, I can honestly say there is plenty of gate capacity available with the terminal pretty empty even during the evening peak.

smi0006 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:30 am

tullamarine wrote:
angusjt wrote:
Perth to Jakarta is a fun one, any word on Garuda resuming the route themselves? I can't recall seeing one of their planes at PER in the last few months

Garuda has only reactivated about 1/4 of their fleet with most AU routes except SYD-CGK still not flying. If you visit CGK, you see parked GA planes everywhere.

I do not understand QF's comments about waiting to increase PER-CGK until they get more slots. As someone who visits CGK regularly, I can honestly say there is plenty of gate capacity available with the terminal pretty empty even during the evening peak.

Ahh the magical mystery and dark arts of slots! My understanding is IATA gave carriers a waiver on the use it or loose it rule for slots until the end of this season NS22 - so carriers are sitting on slots they aren't using. However NW22 this is expires and carriers who aren't using their slots will loose them so maybe QF have their eyes on some slots a carrier is sitting on, knowing they will expire. Could offer greater commercial schedules than the evening departure ex-CGK?

ben175 · Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:49 am

PER-CGK I definitely did not expect, but makes complete sense with GA absent from the route. I wonder if we could see QF return to PER-DPS? There's definitely a high end market willing to pay a premium for J.

YMHBSpotting · Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:13 am

Anyone know if King Island Airlines' EMB110 (VH-KGQ) is still existent, I emailed them a number of years ago and got told it was "in maintenance", and that "at this stage we are unsure when it will be available". Has anyone seen it around Moorabbin at all? I ask, given their website still has multiple references to it, and photos up, despite a recent revamp.

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