Would be nice for TK to launch IST-PER, easily could be done with a 773

YYZORD wrote:

Would be nice for TK to launch IST-PER, easily could be done with a 773

Turkish diaspora in Australia is overwhelmingly in Sydney so a direct route to PER is unlikely to be a great success.

tullamarine wrote:

YYZORD wrote:

Would be nice for TK to launch IST-PER, easily could be done with a 773

Turkish diaspora in Australia is overwhelmingly in Sydney so a direct route to PER is unlikely to be a great success.

But think of the connections to Europe and elsewhere thru IST?

YYZORD wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

YYZORD wrote:

Would be nice for TK to launch IST-PER, easily could be done with a 773

Turkish diaspora in Australia is overwhelmingly in Sydney so a direct route to PER is unlikely to be a great success.

But think of the connections to Europe and elsewhere thru IST?

Just because the aircraft is capable doesnt mean its worth doing. What would IST offer that cant already be done through DXB, DOH, and LHR non-stops?

ben175 wrote:

FCO also allows for better connections into Central Europe than CDG.

I wonder how long it will take for an airline to give PER-India a crack? Could be an opportunity for IndiGo with their 321LRs coming.

FCO is perhaps just that bit shorter (an hour) which might give the 789 fleet a bit more gap than an FRA or CDG service.

Re India - QF and its A321s might also have a stab, now that PER is becoming a western transit hub.

TK will only work to SYD or MEL if it's direct - there is literally zero point of them flying a one-stop journey when they already sell tickets via SIN/KUL/DPS on other carriers.

I've always thought PER would work for TK if they team up with VA. They could offer a hugely impressive one stop network to Europe/Africa via IST, and also offer connections to the Eastern states. EY is gone from PER, EK is down in frequency and QR in capacity. No better time for another carrier to jump in.

ben175 wrote:

TK will only work to SYD or MEL if it's direct - there is literally zero point of them flying a one-stop journey when they already sell tickets via SIN/KUL/DPS on other carriers.

I've always thought PER would work for TK if they team up with VA. They could offer a hugely impressive one stop network to Europe/Africa via IST, and also offer connections to the Eastern states. EY is gone from PER, EK is down in frequency and QR in capacity. No better time for another carrier to jump in.

Can a TK 350 make it to SYD/MEL? They need to move quickly to back fill EY, before QR swallows up the demand. I noted ADL-DOH is going 5 weekly now. I wonder what the AU Turkish bilateral allows! Be even more appealing if AU had a home grown star carrier. Would have been a great niche for ZL to build into if they weren’t obsessed with QF - and they’re brain wasn’t with their heart in the country….

YYZORD wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

YYZORD wrote:

Would be nice for TK to launch IST-PER, easily could be done with a 773

Turkish diaspora in Australia is overwhelmingly in Sydney so a direct route to PER is unlikely to be a great success.

But think of the connections to Europe and elsewhere thru IST?

There are already plenty of one-stop connections throughout Europe particularly with ME3. TK via PER would add nothing that is not already available. The only way TK can offer a compelling service to Australia is if it can do IST-SYD non-stop.

The VA and UA tie up is fantastic. Just booked CHS - IAH - SYD for 59000 Velocity Points and 70 bucks. QF wanted hundreds of thousands of points for the same trip. Yeah - supply and demand and all that but there is heaps of availability on UA.

smi0006 wrote:

Would have been a great niche for ZL to build into if they weren’t obsessed with QF - and they’re brain wasn’t with their heart in the country….

You want ZL to start international ops now and for sure go broke? I thought their 737 ops were their go broke strategy?

qf2220 wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

Would have been a great niche for ZL to build into if they weren’t obsessed with QF - and they’re brain wasn’t with their heart in the country….

You want ZL to start international ops now and for sure go broke? I thought their 737 ops were their go broke strategy?

I read it as ZL could be a Star domestic feeder, in this instance for TK via PER to SYD and MEL. Either way, I disagree that it would be a particularly viable strategy. SQ, NH, AC and UA are already aligned with VA and NZ with QF, so you’re looking at relatively niche operators such as Air China and a hypothetical Turkish route.

ZL at this stage has only picked up DL for interline. ZL may potentially pick up EY for their 2nd interline depending if EY wants to grab a 2nd Australian partner considering they are now a secondary partner of VA, seeing that incoming partner QR will likely be prioritised alongside SQ as the primary European partners of VA/VFF.

Saying that, I can't see TK partnering with ZL in PER (or in SYD or MEL for that matter) in any hypothetical situation. They may interline with both QF and VA at the minimum.

a7ala wrote:

YYZORD wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Turkish diaspora in Australia is overwhelmingly in Sydney so a direct route to PER is unlikely to be a great success.

But think of the connections to Europe and elsewhere thru IST?

Just because the aircraft is capable doesnt mean its worth doing. What would IST offer that cant already be done through DXB, DOH, and LHR non-stops?

TK has a stronger European network that DXB or DOH by a country mile, while LHR means a backtrack for most European passengers. That would make TK very attractive for many pax, as long as you're OK with a 3-star Skytrax rating (which I certainly am). And they're often very competitive price-wise. I think it makes good sense. I could see them doing several Australian ports if the rights could be worked out.

RyanairGuru wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

Would have been a great niche for ZL to build into if they weren’t obsessed with QF - and they’re brain wasn’t with their heart in the country….

You want ZL to start international ops now and for sure go broke? I thought their 737 ops were their go broke strategy?

I read it as ZL could be a Star domestic feeder, in this instance for TK via PER to SYD and MEL. Either way, I disagree that it would be a particularly viable strategy. SQ, NH, AC and UA are already aligned with VA and NZ with QF, so you’re looking at relatively niche operators such as Air China and a hypothetical Turkish route.

Sorry - was an off the cuff comment, not a strategic plan. All I was thinking is ZL needs all the help they can get, if they managed to survive (doubtful) and grow a bit more. Star alliance membership would give them a decent FF base locally who would like a local carrier fully integrated into star. But yeah - complexity would be people who are loyal to velocity also. Does velocity offer SQ/UA/NH exactly the same as what star carriers offer?. But ZL need all the help they can get - deffs they shouldn’t even think about international.

smi0006 wrote:

RyanairGuru wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

You want ZL to start international ops now and for sure go broke? I thought their 737 ops were their go broke strategy?

I read it as ZL could be a Star domestic feeder, in this instance for TK via PER to SYD and MEL. Either way, I disagree that it would be a particularly viable strategy. SQ, NH, AC and UA are already aligned with VA and NZ with QF, so you’re looking at relatively niche operators such as Air China and a hypothetical Turkish route.

Sorry - was an off the cuff comment, not a strategic plan. All I was thinking is ZL needs all the help they can get, if they managed to survive (doubtful) and grow a bit more. Star alliance membership would give them a decent FF base locally who would like a local carrier fully integrated into star. But yeah - complexity would be people who are loyal to velocity also. Does velocity offer SQ/UA/NH exactly the same as what star carriers offer?. But ZL need all the help they can get - deffs they shouldn’t even think about international.

There is 'Star Alliance Connecting Partners' - which is basically the affiilate member level of Star Alliance, and is a lot cheaper to join and only requires 3 members. This can benefit either VA or ZL, or both - without spending the money on and having to wait for full approval for full membership.

Like with Oneworld connect, those members only need to connect to their partner carriers in those Alliances. A cheaper alternative without spending the money to connect to all carriers as an approved full member of OW or Star.

https://www.staralliance.com/en/cp-overview

DavidByrne wrote:

a7ala wrote:

YYZORD wrote:

But think of the connections to Europe and elsewhere thru IST?

Just because the aircraft is capable doesnt mean its worth doing. What would IST offer that cant already be done through DXB, DOH, and LHR non-stops?

TK has a stronger European network that DXB or DOH by a country mile, while LHR means a backtrack for most European passengers. That would make TK very attractive for many pax, as long as you're OK with a 3-star Skytrax rating (which I certainly am). And they're often very competitive price-wise. I think it makes good sense. I could see them doing several Australian ports if the rights could be worked out.

They have been talking about heading to Australia ever since they had capable aircraft. There is no logical case for PER though.

But Perth will never be a significant hub within Australia. As the most isloated major city on the planet, O&D is really where it's at, especially once the east coast can do non-stop to Europe.

NTLDaz wrote:

The VA and UA tie up is fantastic. Just booked CHS - IAH - SYD for 59000 Velocity Points and 70 bucks. QF wanted hundreds of thousands of points for the same trip. Yeah - supply and demand and all that but there is heaps of availability on UA.

Qantas make it irritatingly hard to find an actual award fare. Those "hundreds of thousands" are any-seat rewards. Classic rewards are much cheaper, though I would still say the value has eroded a fair bit over the years and their taxes are usually egregious.

A more apples to apples comparison on Qantas: 88,500 points gets you Charleston-Dallas-Tokyo-Sydney (125,000 in Premium economy). It still comes out worse in every way, but is a more fair comparison. Though I couldn't get to the taxes because the website kept crashing.

Kent350787 wrote:

They have been talking about heading to Australia ever since they had capable aircraft. There is no logical case for PER though

There's no logical case for PER-IST itself, I concede. But there's also no logical case for SYD-DOH, or SYD-DXB as standalone routes. They only work because of connection traffic, which is what TK has focused a significant portion of its business model around. I won't die in a ditch arguing for PER-IST, but I don't believe it is a complete waste of an opportunity, especially given it's the only port in Australia that TK could realistically serve right now.

dredgy wrote:

NTLDaz wrote:

The VA and UA tie up is fantastic. Just booked CHS - IAH - SYD for 59000 Velocity Points and 70 bucks. QF wanted hundreds of thousands of points for the same trip. Yeah - supply and demand and all that but there is heaps of availability on UA.

Qantas make it irritatingly hard to find an actual award fare. Those "hundreds of thousands" are any-seat rewards. Classic rewards are much cheaper, though I would still say the value has eroded a fair bit over the years and their taxes are usually egregious.

A more apples to apples comparison on Qantas: 88,500 points gets you Charleston-Dallas-Tokyo-Sydney (125,000 in Premium economy). It still comes out worse in every way, but is a more fair comparison. Though I couldn't get to the taxes because the website kept crashing.

Of course you're right. But the difference is there is heaps of availability around the time I want to fly with United using Velocity points compared to what is available with Qantas with Classic Rewards. To get to CHS I'm using a QF Classic Reward to get to SJC via HNL for 56K + $230 then AA using Classic Rewards to get from SJC to CHS via Charlotte for 40K + $11US. That's flying business from SJC to Charlotte. Then economy for the last 1 hr leg to CHS. There were plenty of Classic Rewards available to LAX ( benefit of A380 ) but the availability from LAX to CHS is severely limited and didn't fit my plans.
There were no flights available using Classic Rewards from SYD to CHS at all.

DavidByrne wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

They have been talking about heading to Australia ever since they had capable aircraft. There is no logical case for PER though

There's no logical case for PER-IST itself, I concede. But there's also no logical case for SYD-DOH, or SYD-DXB as standalone routes. They only work because of connection traffic, which is what TK has focused a significant portion of its business model around. I won't die in a ditch arguing for PER-IST, but I don't believe it is a complete waste of an opportunity, especially given it's the only port in Australia that TK could realistically serve right now.

I agree that PER does seem to be a little underserved to Europe for a 2m population, but I can see EK and QR upgauging or adding services before TK flies to PER.

AdvancedBikkie wrote:

With QF’s new commitment to PER, and their order books chock-a-block with new aircraft, I don’t know whether this is just pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking on my (west aussie) part, but I see QF possibly launching a number of new mid/long haul routes ex. PER (e.g. A223 to KUL, 787 to NRT, flights to FRA and CDG, and possibly even the cliche LAX route), and a permanent base here for 787s, and possibly A350s. Wondering what other a.netters think.

From my perspective, I'd see QF analysing the performance of the A35K with the Project Sunrise routes, as well as PER-LHR, for a period of time. That's not saying they don't already have enough data about important things like meteorological patterns for flights paths. But I think they will be doing a lot of measuring of how this specific aircraft performs through those conditions over time.

And if PER continues to grow at the amount it has been over the last 10-15 years, it wouldn't surprise me to see a PER-LAX option appearing by about 2028-30. Whether this be by more A35K options or updated variants to the aircraft, if offered by Airbus and purchased.

But still, direct links to JNB, LHR, and seasonal FCO is a great start.

Cheers

SCFlyer wrote:

ZL at this stage has only picked up DL for interline. ZL may potentially pick up EY for their 2nd interline depending if EY wants to grab a 2nd Australian partner considering they are now a secondary partner of VA, seeing that incoming partner QR will likely be prioritised alongside SQ as the primary European partners of VA/VFF.

Saying that, I can't see TK partnering with ZL in PER (or in SYD or MEL for that matter) in any hypothetical situation. They may interline with both QF and VA at the minimum.

TK already interline with JQ so not sure ZL would add anything.

DavidByrne wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

They have been talking about heading to Australia ever since they had capable aircraft. There is no logical case for PER though

There's no logical case for PER-IST itself, I concede. But there's also no logical case for SYD-DOH, or SYD-DXB as standalone routes. They only work because of connection traffic, which is what TK has focused a significant portion of its business model around. I won't die in a ditch arguing for PER-IST, but I don't believe it is a complete waste of an opportunity, especially given it's the only port in Australia that TK could realistically serve right now.

That’s true, but the flight would be dependent on the local PER market connecting onwards from IST, there would be very little traffic from the rest of Australia. We all know that TK is keen to serve SYD and MEL first. PER struggled with 3 middle eastern carriers pre-COVID and EY withdrew, so I’m not sure if there’s enough space in a post-COVID world for EK, QR and TK, maybe a few more years down the track.

Whilst TK serves a lot of airports from its Istanbul hub, the other ME3, plus SQ and other SEA airlines pretty much cover the VAST majority of places Australians travelling to Europe want to go, so these minor city’s don’t add a whole lot of marketing gravitas to TK.

a320fan wrote:

Whilst TK serves a lot of airports from its Istanbul hub, the other ME3, plus SQ and other SEA airlines pretty much cover the VAST majority of places Australians travelling to Europe want to go, so these minor city’s don’t add a whole lot of marketing gravitas to TK.

Agree, and some of the smaller cities can still be picked up on an EK ticket using FlyDubai from DXB onwards.

Having said that, was in IST recently, it’s a very impressive hub.

On Flightradar24- MH127/126 seems to be operating daily into Perth with the A330 and tonight’s flight is just behind SQ215 and just ahead of QF72 - and has been for the last 3 weeks or so..however…
Does anyone know why this flight is not open for reservations or listed on Perth Airport arrivals/departures?
Is it still only operating for Cargo only?
Seems odd that only the 737-operated MH125/124 and twice weekly A330 MH127/126 is bookable - although the actual flights that seem to be flying do not match what’s available for reservations…

Cheers…

CEO TALKS: TURKISH AIRLINES EYES NONSTOP FLIGHT TO AUSTRALIA WITH A350-1000 OR 777X

Turkish Airlines is evaluating whether to use Airbus A350-1000XWB or Boeing 777X aircraft for nonstop services to Australia and is nearing a decision on 30 regional aircraft.

The airline already operates 777-300ERs, as well as A350-900s. “But we might go for an additional version, [such as] the A350-1000XWB for ultra-long-range services from Istanbul to Sydney and Melbourne,” Turkish Airlines Chairman Ahmet Bolat told me on the sidelines of the IATA annual general meeting in Doha.

Read more: https://samchui.com/2022/06/29/ceo-talk ... ttRyapayPw


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ben175 wrote:

I wonder how long it will take for an airline to give PER-India a crack? Could be an opportunity for IndiGo with their 321LRs coming.

I got sent a petition. It's not the most accurate, but it's a start.

https://chng.it/bc5QgC9sR7

I definitely agree with the points they make -- although I have no interest in travelling to India, I have quite a few South Asian friends, all of whom complain about the lack of choices in getting to India, Sri Lanka, etc, and being Southeast Asian myself, I've been lucky in that I can fly direct to Malaysia as quickly as I can fly to the eastern states. A DEL flight would not only help people travelling to India, it would also help people travelling to other parts of South Asia. I reckon it'll be a really high-demand route, so I think a 321LR might be a bit small. Maybe QF with an A332, the 332 fleet isn't super well utilised.

For PER to India/Sri Lanka services, even though I see it as a possibility for the future, the market ti MEL and SYD are far larger and have seen the focus go there. Can see BNE getting flights next though.

I do hope that MEL can get a southern India flight in future though, and I am surprised that JQ hasn’t taken up that opportunity. QF’s MEL-DEL and SYD-BLR are a good start though, but I tend to see JQ in the mix for the future, just as they have done with SYD-ICN with a mixed brand strategy.