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qf789
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New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:11 am

Welcome to the New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1472463&p=23325045#p23325045
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:42 am

A bit more on the planned runway extension at Nelson Airport. The golf course at the north end would be split in half if it went ahead on the current plan. They prefer a southern extension saying that there is 4 km of space for that. However the Nelson Airport owners say it's not possible to build it out into the estuary.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/06/01/nels ... extension/
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:24 am

Airwork are advertising for 757 maintenance engineers in Christchurch on Seek. It states that they will be introducing 757s into the fleet. They have roles for AKL, CNS, MEL and BNE as well as CHC. So they plan to grow their business and the 757 freighter will be back in CHC it seems.
Perhaps more competition for the Qantas 767 freighter operation too.

https://www.seek.co.nz/job/57002811?typ ... fdb20acaae
 
ZKNHF
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:12 am

This might have been covered in a previous thread. But does anyone know anything about the possible return of the 200er?

https://www.facebook.com/10006356014435 ... 6iyRl/?d=n
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:05 am

ZKNHF wrote:
This might have been covered in a previous thread. But does anyone know anything about the possible return of the 200er?

https://www.facebook.com/10006356014435 ... 6iyRl/?d=n


I am not in the know, the number 12 came up some time ago which seemed to be very loosely used that it was talking about 12 777s, it was said to be untrue and poorly worded.

Tbh they are said to only be taking 6 77Ws back and they took a huge write down on the 772 fleet to remove it from the fleet in 2021. Also 4 owned and 4 leased while that report says 5 returning, it is possible to buy 1 of the leased ones but so so unlikely. And more 787s arriving next year.

Absolutely no way this is happening imo. Just someone getting their wires crossed.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:43 am

I had wondered if there was a chance the four owned Air NZ 777-200ERs might return to service, but there's this linkedin profile of Geoff Shearer at Air NZ who has the job of selling them.

Geoff Shearer
772 Sales Project Manager at Air New Zealand
Experience
Air New Zealand 23 years 3 months
772 Sales Project Manager
July 2021 - Present . 1 year
Secondment, coordinating the sale of 4 x 777-200ER's, 3 spare engines plus materials and tooling, working with some great people in Air NZ and externally to realise the best outcome for all.

https://nz.linkedin.com/in/geoff-shearer-54721817

PA515
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:21 am

ZKNHF wrote:
This might have been covered in a previous thread. But does anyone know anything about the possible return of the 200er?

https://www.facebook.com/10006356014435 ... 6iyRl/?d=n


Facebook post was deleted after replies pointed out that he wasn't correct plus the link to the Linkedin post stating the seller's role of selling the 772ERs.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:35 pm

The NZ American routes start dates are as follows all will be 3 weekly to begin with.
HNL 5 July
IAH 7 July
JFK. 17 Sep
ORD 30 Oct
 
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ZKaviation
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:48 am

SCFlyer wrote:
ZKNHF wrote:
This might have been covered in a previous thread. But does anyone know anything about the possible return of the 200er?

https://www.facebook.com/10006356014435 ... 6iyRl/?d=n


Facebook post was deleted after replies pointed out that he wasn't correct plus the link to the Linkedin post stating the seller's role of selling the 772ERs.


Hi SCFlyer,

I think you a referring to the post I made on my Facebook page ZKaviation about the return to service of the stored Boeing 777-200.
Firstly my post was deleted from my page NOT due to "replies pointed out that he wasn't correct" but because of the abuse/bullying I was receiving for posting the information by narcissistic plebs on my page, and more so on a less popular Facebook group. My source just said to me take it down, stuff them!
I have had no idea what your saying about the link to the linkedin post, I have just seen it now, and I am pretty sure that person has left that roll that was started up.
The content of my post was information passed onto to me by a senior engineer at air New Zealand, who was privy to 1 or more zoom about bringing 5/7 of the 200ER's back into service.
air New Zealand has 4 B77W's stored at VCV.
They are needed asap due to lack of capacity, and maintenance which is needed for the B77W's they need C-Checks and painting in Singapore, B789s needing to go to Texas for wing repairs and painting.
Bringing the 200ER's back on line would only take 30 days, and B789 Pilots are able to be current on on the B772s in 5 days due to common type training in the sim, and cabin crew in 3-4 days.
Anyway thats my part of putting the record correct on my side.
I am lucky to be trusted with information from people in high up places in aviation, maybe next time I will keep it to myself.
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 4:10 am

Yes they do need replacing, what's also interesting is we have purchased 9 aircraft which are able to be refueled in the air. IMO it would make a lot of sense to purchase the A330 MRTT, it can be used in the strategic transport role, it can be used in the VIP role, in a disaster relief role it can do the heavy lifting to the closest large strip with the C130's doing the tactical lift. It can also be used to increase the range of our P8's and C130's.


I agree with this in principle, though I don't think MRTTs have a cargo door on the main deck? A330 MRTTs are quite expensive though, at least for new builds. The RAAF acquired Qantas' VH-EBH and VH-EBI a few years ago and put them through the MRTT conversion process. The Spanish Air Force did the same thing with a couple of Level/Iberia A330-200s that were barely used. With the market for widebodies as it is, I wonder if the government could find some used A330-200s somewhere and have them converted. I wonder what the cost would be.

OTOH the operating costs of A330s would be substantially greater than that of the 757s...and politically might be hard to sell.

Speaking of the P8's this govt has rock's in it's head if they don't increase the fleet to 6 aircraft, the Chinese aren't going away.


Not sure I agree on this. They're ridiculously expensive.

While we're buying things the Aussies are retiring the NH90'S, our's are to the same spec, it would be a sensible idea to buy 4-6 of them to help out our heavily used fleet.

:checkmark:

Fully agree, this one is a no brainer. Especially considering the (admittedly rumored) cost of their spares. Maybe an opportunity to get rid of the SeaSprites at the same time?
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:13 am

There would be no doubt if NZ was to bring back the 4x owned 77E’s in the short term that they could fill them.

The biggest issue would be finding cabin crew to support the additional capacity. Without starting and offshore crew base, I think it would be very hard right now to crew them.
 
Sprite8806
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:34 am

ZKaviation wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
ZKNHF wrote:
This might have been covered in a previous thread. But does anyone know anything about the possible return of the 200er?

https://www.facebook.com/10006356014435 ... 6iyRl/?d=n


Facebook post was deleted after replies pointed out that he wasn't correct plus the link to the Linkedin post stating the seller's role of selling the 772ERs.


Hi SCFlyer,

I think you a referring to the post I made on my Facebook page ZKaviation about the return to service of the stored Boeing 777-200.
Firstly my post was deleted from my page NOT due to "replies pointed out that he wasn't correct" but because of the abuse/bullying I was receiving for posting the information by narcissistic plebs on my page, and more so on a less popular Facebook group. My source just said to me take it down, stuff them!
I have had no idea what your saying about the link to the linkedin post, I have just seen it now, and I am pretty sure that person has left that roll that was started up.
The content of my post was information passed onto to me by a senior engineer at air New Zealand, who was privy to 1 or more zoom about bringing 5/7 of the 200ER's back into service.
air New Zealand has 4 B77W's stored at VCV.
They are needed asap due to lack of capacity, and maintenance which is needed for the B77W's they need C-Checks and painting in Singapore, B789s needing to go to Texas for wing repairs and painting.
Bringing the 200ER's back on line would only take 30 days, and B789 Pilots are able to be current on on the B772s in 5 days due to common type training in the sim, and cabin crew in 3-4 days.
Anyway thats my part of putting the record correct on my side.
I am lucky to be trusted with information from people in high up places in aviation, maybe next time I will keep it to myself.


Hey ZKaviation! Any updates on the rumour about EK coming to WLG? Would really love to see them here. Have a good day. Thanks.
 
Sprite8806
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:07 am

What happened to Mike Pero's airline Pasifika Air? And are there any new startups coming up in NZ?
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:27 pm

ZKaviation wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
ZKNHF wrote:
This might have been covered in a previous thread. But does anyone know anything about the possible return of the 200er?

https://www.facebook.com/10006356014435 ... 6iyRl/?d=n


Facebook post was deleted after replies pointed out that he wasn't correct plus the link to the Linkedin post stating the seller's role of selling the 772ERs.


Hi SCFlyer,

I think you a referring to the post I made on my Facebook page ZKaviation about the return to service of the stored Boeing 777-200.
Firstly my post was deleted from my page NOT due to "replies pointed out that he wasn't correct" but because of the abuse/bullying I was receiving for posting the information by narcissistic plebs on my page, and more so on a less popular Facebook group. My source just said to me take it down, stuff them!
I have had no idea what your saying about the link to the linkedin post, I have just seen it now, and I am pretty sure that person has left that roll that was started up.
The content of my post was information passed onto to me by a senior engineer at air New Zealand, who was privy to 1 or more zoom about bringing 5/7 of the 200ER's back into service.
air New Zealand has 4 B77W's stored at VCV.
They are needed asap due to lack of capacity, and maintenance which is needed for the B77W's they need C-Checks and painting in Singapore, B789s needing to go to Texas for wing repairs and painting.
Bringing the 200ER's back on line would only take 30 days, and B789 Pilots are able to be current on on the B772s in 5 days due to common type training in the sim, and cabin crew in 3-4 days.
Anyway thats my part of putting the record correct on my side.
I am lucky to be trusted with information from people in high up places in aviation, maybe next time I will keep it to myself.


That is really interesting about the 777-200s possible return to service. It does seem to have some merit. The 4 owned ones make sense. Especially with them only needing one month to be ready compared to 3 months for each 77W. Plus as well many 789 will be out for maintenance there will be a widebody equipment shortage soon.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:28 pm

Sprite8806 wrote:
What happened to Mike Pero's airline Pasifika Air? And are there any new startups coming up in NZ?


Mike Pero wound up his airline plan to much red tape got in the way unfortunately.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:29 pm

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2206/ ... ing-on.htm

Invercargill CEO is moving on there has certainly been a lot of changes during his term. The highlight will be the introduction of the jet service to AKL.
 
Kiwiandrew
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:10 pm

Re the 777-200 rumour.
I'm curious why it would take so much less time to bring them back to service compared to the 77W. These are aircraft that NZ had decided to permanently retire, so one might have assumed they'd put less effort into looking after them in storage than the 77W which they had said might come back for a while . Any ideas why they would apparently be able to be reactivated sooner ?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:45 pm

Kiwiandrew wrote:
Re the 777-200 rumour.
I'm curious why it would take so much less time to bring them back to service compared to the 77W. These are aircraft that NZ had decided to permanently retire, so one might have assumed they'd put less effort into looking after them in storage than the 77W which they had said might come back for a while . Any ideas why they would apparently be able to be reactivated sooner ?


I doubt that they could. This is a little silly and I’ll eat my words if I am wrong but no way these are coming back. We are told 6 of 7 77Ws coming back only, a huge write down on the 772 fleet was made, they are no longer part of the fleet, more 787s arriving in 2023, it would take a lot longer to get crew trained. Not happening imo and that’s being realistic from what we have been told, not trying to be negative but it doesn’t make sense imo.
 
Kiwiandrew
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:08 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:
Re the 777-200 rumour.
I'm curious why it would take so much less time to bring them back to service compared to the 77W. These are aircraft that NZ had decided to permanently retire, so one might have assumed they'd put less effort into looking after them in storage than the 77W which they had said might come back for a while . Any ideas why they would apparently be able to be reactivated sooner ?


I doubt that they could. This is a little silly and I’ll eat my words if I am wrong but no way these are coming back. We are told 6 of 7 77Ws coming back only, a huge write down on the 772 fleet was made, they are no longer part of the fleet, more 787s arriving in 2023, it would take a lot longer to get crew trained. Not happening imo and that’s being realistic from what we have been told, not trying to be negative but it doesn’t make sense imo.


Thanks. I have to admit to being very skeptical about it myself. I have learned over the years to never say never, but I really won't be convinced on this unless I actually see the aircraft back here.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:23 pm

Sprite8806 wrote:
What happened to Mike Pero's airline Pasifika Air? And are there any new startups coming up in NZ?


He pulled this idea ages ago. Here's article from last June.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/12549762 ... ermanently

He'd get smoked in today's market if he tried it.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:39 pm

Sprite8806 wrote:
Hey ZKaviation! Any updates on the rumour about EK coming to WLG? Would really love to see them here. Have a good day. Thanks.


Are you from WLG out of interest? You seemingly ask for an update on this once a fortnight.

EK to my knowledge haven't openly talked about any imminent or even pending / planned flights? Isn't this just some wild av-geek rumor?

When we look at it, EK has the A380 and 77W at their disposal (yes there's a handful of 200's as well). Based on WLG's shorty runway and DXB being over 14,000km's away. You're left with two possible options

A) The triangle route DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB - but what's the point in direct in one direction? You end up with a directional imbalance ex CHC (i,e too many seats out vs number coming in) Is there really enough interest to fill a 77W into WLG

B) A Tasman connection - DXB-SYD-WLG-SYD-DXB

While B is most likely, it would still be questionable if EK can fill a 77W SYD-WLG-SYD - while SYD is used in my example. MEL and BNE could be options but given the size of aircraft used, you'd need to focus on a major center.

In my opinion - I think it's something EK would do... but they currently don't deploy the 77W into either SYD or MEL and anything would be some time away,
 
bevan7
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:59 pm

United just cancelled my flight from SFO-AKL in August. The lady on the phone said they won't be starting until September.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:57 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
Re the 777-200 rumour.
I'm curious why it would take so much less time to bring them back to service compared to the 77W. These are aircraft that NZ had decided to permanently retire, so one might have assumed they'd put less effort into looking after them in storage than the 77W which they had said might come back for a while . Any ideas why they would apparently be able to be reactivated sooner ?

The 77W have taken so long to bring back because by being stored at AKL in the weather there they ended up needing $2m of work to repair the damage to the engines. They also had to bring back the pilots get them all trained up and of course cabin crew too.
In theory if the 77E have been stored correctly (which they probably have been in case there’s a buyer) then they shouldn’t need too much to reactivate (especially since 777 pilots already back now on the 77W).
Will it happen? Doubtful. Even with current demand I think they’ll make do - especially with the likelihood of a global recession looking more likely by the day.
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:03 am

NZ516 wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
What happened to Mike Pero's airline Pasifika Air? And are there any new startups coming up in NZ?


Mike Pero wound up his airline plan to much red tape got in the way unfortunately.


Too much Red Tape? You mean to say that getting an AOC is hard? Who would have thought? :lol:
 
Sprite8806
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:59 am

NZ6 wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Hey ZKaviation! Any updates on the rumour about EK coming to WLG? Would really love to see them here. Have a good day. Thanks.


Are you from WLG out of interest? You seemingly ask for an update on this once a fortnight.

EK to my knowledge haven't openly talked about any imminent or even pending / planned flights? Isn't this just some wild av-geek rumor?

When we look at it, EK has the A380 and 77W at their disposal (yes there's a handful of 200's as well). Based on WLG's shorty runway and DXB being over 14,000km's away. You're left with two possible options

A) The triangle route DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB - but what's the point in direct in one direction? You end up with a directional imbalance ex CHC (i,e too many seats out vs number coming in) Is there really enough interest to fill a 77W into WLG

B) A Tasman connection - DXB-SYD-WLG-SYD-DXB

While B is most likely, it would still be questionable if EK can fill a 77W SYD-WLG-SYD - while SYD is used in my example. MEL and BNE could be options but given the size of aircraft used, you'd need to focus on a major center.

In my opinion - I think it's something EK would do... but they currently don't deploy the 77W into either SYD or MEL and anything would be some time away,


Yes, I am. Sorry, I just really love my airport and any talk of expansion and new airlines coming here excites me. Especially a major one like Emirates. I just wanted to take an opportunity to ask him because he posted on his Facebook about Emirates potentially coming to WLG.
 
mrkerr7474
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:56 am

Sprite8806 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Hey ZKaviation! Any updates on the rumour about EK coming to WLG? Would really love to see them here. Have a good day. Thanks.


Are you from WLG out of interest? You seemingly ask for an update on this once a fortnight.

EK to my knowledge haven't openly talked about any imminent or even pending / planned flights? Isn't this just some wild av-geek rumor?

When we look at it, EK has the A380 and 77W at their disposal (yes there's a handful of 200's as well). Based on WLG's shorty runway and DXB being over 14,000km's away. You're left with two possible options

A) The triangle route DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB - but what's the point in direct in one direction? You end up with a directional imbalance ex CHC (i,e too many seats out vs number coming in) Is there really enough interest to fill a 77W into WLG

B) A Tasman connection - DXB-SYD-WLG-SYD-DXB

While B is most likely, it would still be questionable if EK can fill a 77W SYD-WLG-SYD - while SYD is used in my example. MEL and BNE could be options but given the size of aircraft used, you'd need to focus on a major center.

In my opinion - I think it's something EK would do... but they currently don't deploy the 77W into either SYD or MEL and anything would be some time away,


Yes, I am. Sorry, I just really love my airport and any talk of expansion and new airlines coming here excites me. Especially a major one like Emirates. I just wanted to take an opportunity to ask him because he posted on his Facebook about Emirates potentially coming to WLG.


As good as it would be for WLG to have a flight such as that with EK, I don't see it happening. The triangle wouldn't be feasible to EK in my opinion.

The only way they'd have an EK flight would be to take over the afternoon arrival/departure between SYD and WLG or MEL/WLG for that matter and then leave QF to the midnight arrival / early morning departure out of WLG to SYD. But I'd say there's zero chance of QF giving that up either
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:12 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:
Re the 777-200 rumour.
I'm curious why it would take so much less time to bring them back to service compared to the 77W. These are aircraft that NZ had decided to permanently retire, so one might have assumed they'd put less effort into looking after them in storage than the 77W which they had said might come back for a while . Any ideas why they would apparently be able to be reactivated sooner ?


I doubt that they could. This is a little silly and I’ll eat my words if I am wrong but no way these are coming back. We are told 6 of 7 77Ws coming back only, a huge write down on the 772 fleet was made, they are no longer part of the fleet, more 787s arriving in 2023, it would take a lot longer to get crew trained. Not happening imo and that’s being realistic from what we have been told, not trying to be negative but it doesn’t make sense imo.


Thanks. I have to admit to being very skeptical about it myself. I have learned over the years to never say never, but I really won't be convinced on this unless I actually see the aircraft back here.


I agree never say never. However this just isn’t at all feasible imo given the 772 is no longer actually part of the fleet and the way the world is now. They also owned 4 and leased 4 772s, not to say they couldn’t buy 1 of the leased ones.

I hope I didn’t come across as having a go at you. It is a frustrating topic that keeps coming up when we need to put it to bed.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:52 am

Sprite8806 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Hey ZKaviation! Any updates on the rumour about EK coming to WLG? Would really love to see them here. Have a good day. Thanks.


Are you from WLG out of interest? You seemingly ask for an update on this once a fortnight.

EK to my knowledge haven't openly talked about any imminent or even pending / planned flights? Isn't this just some wild av-geek rumor?

When we look at it, EK has the A380 and 77W at their disposal (yes there's a handful of 200's as well). Based on WLG's shorty runway and DXB being over 14,000km's away. You're left with two possible options

A) The triangle route DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB - but what's the point in direct in one direction? You end up with a directional imbalance ex CHC (i,e too many seats out vs number coming in) Is there really enough interest to fill a 77W into WLG

B) A Tasman connection - DXB-SYD-WLG-SYD-DXB

While B is most likely, it would still be questionable if EK can fill a 77W SYD-WLG-SYD - while SYD is used in my example. MEL and BNE could be options but given the size of aircraft used, you'd need to focus on a major center.

In my opinion - I think it's something EK would do... but they currently don't deploy the 77W into either SYD or MEL and anything would be some time away,


Yes, I am. Sorry, I just really love my airport and any talk of expansion and new airlines coming here excites me. Especially a major one like Emirates. I just wanted to take an opportunity to ask him because he posted on his Facebook about Emirates potentially coming to WLG.


No need to be sorry, I was just trying to understand the connection. I assumed you must be a local and be excited to see a large jet plus a major foreign carrier fly in.

If it was NZ/QF etc I'd say you're dreaming. Forget it, it'll never happened. Even SQ have said we're not coming back into WLG on the Tasman.

But EK have a knack of doing these things....

Forget direct it'll never happen that includes the triangle route as outbound must go via somewhere.

Will EK drop a Tasman onto on of their Aussie services? They've done it before and do it with CHC still, If they did it'd likely be SYD, but CHC is also via SYD. Could CHC go over MEL or could they do two extensions to NZ from SYD, A380 to CHC and77W to WLG. Or will CHC go direct?

End of the day, if anyone will do it, it's going to be EK. No one else would even consider it..

I still don't expect anything for sometime. There's a lot of chatter around the boom of air travel.. the "pent up demand" diving as quickly as it picked up due to the looming threat of a recession. Airlines don't want to over react scale up then have to quickly scale down again.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:32 am

Something very important to remember that people are forgetting with the WLG long haul stuff. The regional annual income is high, but so are living costs. And living costs are going up faster than income. So the people here have less and less to spend on things like holidays overseas. I'm very aware of this fact as I'm one of these people.140k a year is a lot, but so is a mortgage over 500k that is staring down the barrel of 7%+ interest rates while also having pay raises well below CPI. Even if I wanted to travel outside of Welly every other week I simply don't have the spare income to pay for it. If NZ based airlines want more people traveling then they should be lobbying the government to address cost of living problems. More and longer runways are nice but pretty pointless if no one can pay to use them.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2163
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:39 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Something very important to remember that people are forgetting with the WLG long haul stuff. The regional annual income is high, but so are living costs. And living costs are going up faster than income. So the people here have less and less to spend on things like holidays overseas. I'm very aware of this fact as I'm one of these people.140k a year is a lot, but so is a mortgage over 500k that is staring down the barrel of 7%+ interest rates while also having pay raises well below CPI. Even if I wanted to travel outside of Welly every other week I simply don't have the spare income to pay for it. If NZ based airlines want more people traveling then they should be lobbying the government to address cost of living problems. More and longer runways are nice but pretty pointless if no one can pay to use them.


Even though I wouldn't fall off my chair if EK announced WLG via Australia. I wouldn't expect huge number to travel onwards beyond Australia irrespective of the economic situation.

The fact is, beyond Australia EK would really only suit African, Middle East and European bound passengers. The split would be significantly outbound Kiwis vs inbound passengers as WLG is not a 'destination' let alone starting point for visitors. The only inbound passengers would be VFR and Business (both relatively small one would assume).

But like I said yesterday, and to support what you say. The economic outlook in the medium term is hazy. Some say a recession is inevitable some aren't so sure. But with that in mind, while airlines are still recovering and growing, predicting where the medium term demand sits is challenging.

The cost of living crisis as it's called is a global issue but one we've done out best to make worse here at home. It it makes you feel any better, if you're on $140K with $500K mortgage, depending on your age and martial status you're potentially in very good shape even with 7% interest rates. Over 30 years with 7% I'm still calculating well under half your income spent servicing your mortgage, I know people way worse off than that. You're even better off if you have two incomes but if you're further on in your working life things may get a bit squeezed.

That said, your point is still 100% valid.

Disposable income and discretional spending has already changed. If 24 months ago you had $200 left over to save for a 'holiday'. That's likely well gone these days, an extra $50 on your grocery bill, an extra $40 at the pump, an extra $100 on your mortgage, and the last $10... well all your services have gone up. Power, internet, rubbish collection etc etc but if not - people are saving it for that rainy day with the unknown on where it will stop.

I'm just pleased I'm mortgage free!
 
NZ516
Posts: 1146
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:17 pm

zkojq wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
What happened to Mike Pero's airline Pasifika Air? And are there any new startups coming up in NZ?


Mike Pero wound up his airline plan to much red tape got in the way unfortunately.


Too much Red Tape? You mean to say that getting an AOC is hard? Who would have thought? :lol:


Haha very good. Plus the economics of operating one aircraft on a couple of routes don't stack up it was not going to break even. I think Pero realized that and decided not to proceed.
 
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ZKaviation
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:48 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
Re the 777-200 rumour.
I'm curious why it would take so much less time to bring them back to service compared to the 77W. These are aircraft that NZ had decided to permanently retire, so one might have assumed they'd put less effort into looking after them in storage than the 77W which they had said might come back for a while . Any ideas why they would apparently be able to be reactivated sooner ?


It's takes so much less time for the aircraft to be brought back from the States as they have been in a purpose developed facility (ComAV) where the aircraft are in an environment where they have no chance of corrosion,the aircraft are powered up regularly to check systems are still working.

Just because the B772's are not showing on Netline Ops, and on the Air NZ asset list, doesn't mean they can't be brought back into service.
They are all still registered in New Zealand - except ZK-OKA.

The reason for taking a write down on them is all for accounting/tax purposes, and at least while they are "stored" they don't have to pay more tax. Air NZ has some of the best accountants, and economist in the country working for them, and if any tax can be avoided, and dollar made they can find a way.
Air NZ were advised to get the stored aircraft out of Auckland, as the environment there was known to be appalling for storing them there, they were going to be put it was all talk and no action, which is typical!
The three B77W's need C-checks, and also repainting as their in "poor condition", these will happen in Singapore as due to so many resignations at ANZES, Air NZ is only reactivating some engineers ratings approvals, instead of everyones.
Anyway the next 6 months are going to be very interesting.
 
Kiwiandrew
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:37 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

I doubt that they could. This is a little silly and I’ll eat my words if I am wrong but no way these are coming back. We are told 6 of 7 77Ws coming back only, a huge write down on the 772 fleet was made, they are no longer part of the fleet, more 787s arriving in 2023, it would take a lot longer to get crew trained. Not happening imo and that’s being realistic from what we have been told, not trying to be negative but it doesn’t make sense imo.


Thanks. I have to admit to being very skeptical about it myself. I have learned over the years to never say never, but I really won't be convinced on this unless I actually see the aircraft back here.


I agree never say never. However this just isn’t at all feasible imo given the 772 is no longer actually part of the fleet and the way the world is now. They also owned 4 and leased 4 772s, not to say they couldn’t buy 1 of the leased ones.

I hope I didn’t come across as having a go at you. It is a frustrating topic that keeps coming up when we need to put it to bed.


All good, I definitely didn't think you were having a go at me.

My first thought when I saw the rumour about the 200s coming back was "nonsense!" ( but I also thought that when the rumours about serving JFK rather than EWR came out, and I was totally wrong in that, so I thought I'd better give the recent rumour the benefit of the doubt :-) ).
 
NZ801
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:21 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:

Thanks. I have to admit to being very skeptical about it myself. I have learned over the years to never say never, but I really won't be convinced on this unless I actually see the aircraft back here.


I agree never say never. However this just isn’t at all feasible imo given the 772 is no longer actually part of the fleet and the way the world is now. They also owned 4 and leased 4 772s, not to say they couldn’t buy 1 of the leased ones.

I hope I didn’t come across as having a go at you. It is a frustrating topic that keeps coming up when we need to put it to bed.


All good, I definitely didn't think you were having a go at me.

My first thought when I saw the rumour about the 200s coming back was "nonsense!" ( but I also thought that when the rumours about serving JFK rather than EWR came out, and I was totally wrong in that, so I thought I'd better give the recent rumour the benefit of the doubt :-) ).


A healthy dose of scepticism is warranted given we hear so much from “someone who was talking to a pilot” etc etc.
 
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ZKaviation
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:33 am

NZ801 wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

A healthy dose of scepticism is warranted given we hear so much from “someone who was talking to a pilot” etc etc.


Pilot's are usually the last ones to find out anything, not usually the best sources of info.
 
NZ801
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:07 pm

ZKaviation wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:


Pilot's are usually the last ones to find out anything, not usually the best sources of info.


The same could be said for engineers. :smile: My point is that most things are speculative until announced.

Herald article, paywalled, AA have no plans for LAX-CHC or LAX-AKL in the next 12 months or so.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8710
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:19 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:

Thanks. I have to admit to being very skeptical about it myself. I have learned over the years to never say never, but I really won't be convinced on this unless I actually see the aircraft back here.


I agree never say never. However this just isn’t at all feasible imo given the 772 is no longer actually part of the fleet and the way the world is now. They also owned 4 and leased 4 772s, not to say they couldn’t buy 1 of the leased ones.

I hope I didn’t come across as having a go at you. It is a frustrating topic that keeps coming up when we need to put it to bed.


All good, I definitely didn't think you were having a go at me.

My first thought when I saw the rumour about the 200s coming back was "nonsense!" ( but I also thought that when the rumours about serving JFK rather than EWR came out, and I was totally wrong in that, so I thought I'd better give the recent rumour the benefit of the doubt :-) ).[quote
]

I am always wracking my brain as to where the extra capacity maybe needed for the peak NW DEC-FEB. I’ll go on the basis of 3 77Ws being active only to be conservative.

10x LAX 77W
6x SFO 789 code 2
5x IAH 789 code 2
3x ORD 789 code 2
3x JFK 789 code 2

7x YVR 789 code 1
7x PVG
7x SIN
7x NRT
5x HKG
3x TPE
3x ICN
3x KIX
3x PPT

5x CHC-SIN 789 code 1

There maybe 1 even 2 more 77Ws back to cover some down time which will be minimal in peak season.
 
NZ801
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:48 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

I agree never say never. However this just isn’t at all feasible imo given the 772 is no longer actually part of the fleet and the way the world is now. They also owned 4 and leased 4 772s, not to say they couldn’t buy 1 of the leased ones.

I hope I didn’t come across as having a go at you. It is a frustrating topic that keeps coming up when we need to put it to bed.


All good, I definitely didn't think you were having a go at me.

My first thought when I saw the rumour about the 200s coming back was "nonsense!" ( but I also thought that when the rumours about serving JFK rather than EWR came out, and I was totally wrong in that, so I thought I'd better give the recent rumour the benefit of the doubt :-) ).

I am always wracking my brain as to where the extra capacity maybe needed for the peak NW DEC-FEB. I’ll go on the basis of 3 77Ws being active only to be conservative.

10x LAX 77W
6x SFO 789 code 2
5x IAH 789 code 2
3x ORD 789 code 2
3x JFK 789 code 2

7x YVR 789 code 1
7x PVG
7x SIN
7x NRT
5x HKG
3x TPE
3x ICN
3x KIX
3x PPT

5x CHC-SIN 789 code 1

There maybe 1 even 2 more 77Ws back to cover some down time which will be minimal in peak season.


Has anyone, maybe you have, done an allocation for the A320 fleet? Just curious if there’s anything that hasn’t returned yet that was A320 pre-COVID. For example CHC-RAR. Is there enough capacity to have all those routes returned?

Is DPS the only int’l route that hasn’t returned? It’s scheduled for next NS23. Not counting EZE obs.
 
PA515
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:09 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
I am always wracking my brain as to where the extra capacity maybe needed for the peak NW DEC-FEB. I’ll go on the basis of 3 77Ws being active only to be conservative.

10x LAX 77W
6x SFO 789 code 2
5x IAH 789 code 2
3x ORD 789 code 2
3x JFK 789 code 2

7x YVR 789 code 1
7x PVG
7x SIN
7x NRT
5x HKG
3x TPE
3x ICN
3x KIX
3x PPT

5x CHC-SIN 789 code 1

There maybe 1 even 2 more 77Ws back to cover some down time which will be minimal in peak season.


Yesterday I did a sample of the Air NZ NW schedule from the Air NZ website booking function for the weeks 07-13 Nov and 05-11 Dec. The long haul requires 18 aircraft all showing as 789s, if the Sat TPE or HNL flight is moved to Sun. The shorthaul is up to 9 x 321neo and 8 x 320neo if AKL-IUE is ZK-OJM. The schedule is not accurate because many of the flights are there to capture bookings and aircraft types are not finalised. There are 789s that will be 77Ws, 321neos that will be 789s, 320neos that will be 321neos and OJM which could do something additional.

This is 07-13 Nov.
LAX x 7
SFO x 7
IAH x 5
ORD x 3
JFK x 3
YVR x 4
PVG x 7
SIN x 7
NRT x 7
HKG x 7
TPE x 3
ICN x 3
PER x 7
PPT x 1
KIX x 0

I expect the usual drip feed of alterations as they firm up.

Also, no SYD-NLK / BNE-NLK. There was an Australian Government tender for the NLK flights that closed on 14 May 2022, for a three year period from 01 Sep 2022. My understanding was Air NZ had until 30 June 2023 on the existing contract, so I don't know if they are still interested.


PA515
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8710
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:25 am

NZ801 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:


All good, I definitely didn't think you were having a go at me.

My first thought when I saw the rumour about the 200s coming back was "nonsense!" ( but I also thought that when the rumours about serving JFK rather than EWR came out, and I was totally wrong in that, so I thought I'd better give the recent rumour the benefit of the doubt :-) ).

I am always wracking my brain as to where the extra capacity maybe needed for the peak NW DEC-FEB. I’ll go on the basis of 3 77Ws being active only to be conservative.

10x LAX 77W
6x SFO 789 code 2
5x IAH 789 code 2
3x ORD 789 code 2
3x JFK 789 code 2

7x YVR 789 code 1
7x PVG
7x SIN
7x NRT
5x HKG
3x TPE
3x ICN
3x KIX
3x PPT

5x CHC-SIN 789 code 1

There maybe 1 even 2 more 77Ws back to cover some down time which will be minimal in peak season.


Has anyone, maybe you have, done an allocation for the A320 fleet? Just curious if there’s anything that hasn’t returned yet that was A320 pre-COVID. For example CHC-RAR. Is there enough capacity to have all those routes returned?

Is DPS the only int’l route that hasn’t returned? It’s scheduled for next NS23. Not counting EZE obs.


Not so into or easy to do the narrow bodies, PA515 is good at that.

DPS operates NS only. Only routes announced not to return are EZE and LHR, which saves 5 aircraft if LAX is only 1 daily, RAR-LAX is said to not return, no confirmation yet on that.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8710
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:29 am

PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
I am always wracking my brain as to where the extra capacity maybe needed for the peak NW DEC-FEB. I’ll go on the basis of 3 77Ws being active only to be conservative.

10x LAX 77W
6x SFO 789 code 2
5x IAH 789 code 2
3x ORD 789 code 2
3x JFK 789 code 2

7x YVR 789 code 1
7x PVG
7x SIN
7x NRT
5x HKG
3x TPE
3x ICN
3x KIX
3x PPT

5x CHC-SIN 789 code 1

There maybe 1 even 2 more 77Ws back to cover some down time which will be minimal in peak season.


Yesterday I did a sample of the Air NZ NW schedule from the Air NZ website booking function for the weeks 07-13 Nov and 05-11 Dec. The long haul requires 18 aircraft all showing as 789s, if the Sat TPE or HNL flight is moved to Sun. The shorthaul is up to 9 x 321neo and 8 x 320neo if AKL-IUE is ZK-OJM. The schedule is not accurate because many of the flights are there to capture bookings and aircraft types are not finalised. There are 789s that will be 77Ws, 321neos that will be 789s, 320neos that will be 321neos and OJM which could do something additional.

This is 07-13 Nov.
LAX x 7
SFO x 7
IAH x 5
ORD x 3
JFK x 3
YVR x 4
PVG x 7
SIN x 7
NRT x 7
HKG x 7
TPE x 3
ICN x 3
PER x 7
PPT x 1
KIX x 0

I expect the usual drip feed of alterations as they firm up.

Also, no SYD-NLK / BNE-NLK. There was an Australian Government tender for the NLK flights that closed on 14 May 2022, for a three year period from 01 Sep 2022. My understanding was Air NZ had until 30 June 2023 on the existing contract, so I don't know if they are still interested.


PA515



Great thanks. From 12th Dec or so would be about when things really ramp up through to late Jan early Feb, still plenty of updates to come. Get a couple more 77Ws up to 5 back hopefully.
 
User avatar
ZKaviation
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:33 am

OJM is operational spare till December when the lease finishes.
Interesting to note they use bulk loading on the flights to the smaller islands on the A320/A320neos.
 
PA515
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:44 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Great thanks. From 12th Dec or so would be about when things really ramp up through to late Jan early Feb, still plenty of updates to come. Get a couple more 77Ws up to 5 back hopefully.


After I did 05-11 Dec I spotted some changes and switched to 12-18 Dec. It's not finished but IAH goes from five to seven and YVR from We Fr Sa Su to Mo Tu Th Sa Su.

And since last night AKL-PPT 07-13 Nov AND 12-18 Dec has gone from We only at 1840 to Mo We Fr at 1840.

PA515
 
PA515
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:10 am

And since this afternoon YVR 12-18 Dec has changed again to Tu We Fr Sa Su. I might have another look in about a week.

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8710
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:51 am

PA515 wrote:
And since this afternoon YVR 12-18 Dec has changed again to Tu We Fr Sa Su. I might have another look in about a week.

PA515


Quite changeable atm. I could only see HKG 4x on 19th-26th DEC MON, WED, FRI, SUN and NRT 6x ex Tues, no KIX at all.

Just not sure where all this so called extra capacity is required that keeps popping up here.
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:45 pm

What's up with the Toll 737's - I see NZ post is advising of delays due to engine issues.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8710
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:52 pm

PA515 wrote:
And since this afternoon YVR 12-18 Dec has changed again to Tu We Fr Sa Su. I might have another look in about a week.

PA515


I can’t see CHC-SIN when I do a dummy booking.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1146
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:07 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
I can’t see CHC-SIN when I do a dummy booking.


CHC-SIN is showing its start on 30 OCT 22 and it ends 25 MAR 23 Dx13

11:05am 4:40pm NZ296 Air New Zealand 10h 35m
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8710
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:12 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
I can’t see CHC-SIN when I do a dummy booking.


CHC-SIN is showing its start on 30 OCT 22 and it ends 25 MAR 23 Dx13

11:05am 4:40pm NZ296 Air New Zealand 10h 35m


It is in the schedules where I normally look. It isn’t bookable though, was it bookable before?

There are plenty of changes happening atm.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1146
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2022

Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:19 am

AKL-RAR-LAX is on the schedules for Sat 17 DEC
NZ18 and NZ19 2210 1720 2355 1105 2230 0615 0800 1120 789
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