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Cody
Topic Author
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Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:57 pm

Yesterday someone posted a picture of a United 737-200 at Denver Stapleton Airport. The photo was dated October 9, 1986.

In the background is a Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon colors, but with a Continental gold tail and meatball logo. It is not a PEOPLExpress hybrid as it is clearly a bare metal.fuselage and the red stripes end prior to the engine.....PEOPLExpress stripes went all the way the the APU.

Does anyone know the story of this airplane? Continental bought the original Frontier, but from what I understand Frontier Horizon had already been spun off to SkyBus at that point.

I have never seen a Continental 727 in bare metal until I saw this photo last night.

I would post it here but for some reason it won't let me.

Any info. Is greatly appreciated.
 
MO11
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:23 pm

Cody wrote:
Yesterday someone posted a picture of a United 737-200 at Denver Stapleton Airport. The photo was dated October 9, 1986.


Does anyone know the story of this airplane? Continental bought the original Frontier, but from what I understand Frontier Horizon had already been spun off to SkyBus at that point.


Any info. Is greatly appreciated.



PEOPLExpress bought Frontier. Continental bought PEOPLExpress.

But Continental leased Skybus' N1973 from May 1986 until December 1986.
 
Cody
Topic Author
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:31 pm

Wow! I never knew that and cannot find a good picture of it.

Thanks!
 
se210
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Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:03 am

Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:44 pm

Cody wrote:
I would post it here but for some reason it won't let me.


Here you go.

Code to include the photos was:
[photoid]6886285[/photoid]
 
Cody
Topic Author
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:38 pm

Thanks! Learn something new every day.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:48 pm

A better picture of this ex-AA 727-23:

https://www.airhistory.net/photo/299444/N1973
 
se210
Posts: 329
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:03 am

Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:52 pm

Looking at the Frontier Horizon fleet history, they had 7 ex AA B727-23: N1902, N1930, N1931, N1933, N1955, N1973, N1979. All eventually went to Flying Tiger/Fed Express but N1973 was the only one that was sub-leased to Continental in 1986 (it was also sub-leased to World Airways) (Source: Jet Airlines Production List Volume 1 - Boeing - 2003)

A full picture of N1973 with Continental titles can be seen at this Flickr link: Continental Boeing 727 N1973 (Source: Flickr User: EX/ZX Thanks for 9.5 million views since 2017).
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:57 pm

DL_Mech wrote:

A better picture of this ex-AA 727-23:

https://www.airhistory.net/photo/299444/N1973


Never heard of that site before. Thankls, there goes my morning! ;)
 
Cody
Topic Author
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:06 pm

Continental had some ODD hybrids. It looks liked they glued a whole different tail on N1973.
 
departedflights
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:22 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
DL_Mech wrote:

A better picture of this ex-AA 727-23:

https://www.airhistory.net/photo/299444/N1973


Never heard of that site before. Thankls, there goes my morning! ;)


I discovered it a month or two ago.... some really great photos on there.
 
MDC862
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:21 pm

I remember seeing this plane, but refresh my memory on the co red and black tail logo. Was that norm?
 
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airzim
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:01 pm

MDC862 wrote:
I remember seeing this plane, but refresh my memory on the co red and black tail logo. Was that norm?


Are you referring to the 'meatball" red and black transition? It was originally black with a red version on the fuselage next to the name "Continental"

When TexasAir acquired CO, my understanding is the decision was made to switch to red for the tail meatball and eventually dropped the smaller version next to the Continental name. This would have been roughly 1984?
 
departedflights
Posts: 280
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:38 pm

Cody wrote:
Continental had some ODD hybrids. It looks liked they glued a whole different tail on N1973.


I always found the way they just put a cursive "Continental's" in front of "New York Air" to be an interesting approach....

 
mga707
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:37 pm

airzim wrote:
When TexasAir acquired CO, my understanding is the decision was made to switch to red for the tail meatball and eventually dropped the smaller version next to the Continental name. This would have been roughly 1984?


1985 is when the red logos started showing up, if my memory is accurate. It was after CO emerged from their Chapter 11 reorganization. The rather bitter joke at the time was that the red represented the 'blood' that the remaining employees had shed for the company, in terms of reduced pay and benefits.
 
n471wn
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:53 pm

 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:13 am

I remember the original Frontier, and when I hear "Horizon", I think of the Alaska feeder. So what was Frontier Horizon??
 
United1
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:48 am

GSPSPOT wrote:
I remember the original Frontier, and when I hear "Horizon", I think of the Alaska feeder. So what was Frontier Horizon??


It was a low cost subsidiary of Frontier operated as an airline within an airline. It only lasted about 18 months. Wiki lists its routes as DEN-SFO/ORD/LGA/IAD/MCO/TPA
 
mga707
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:55 am

GSPSPOT wrote:
I remember the original Frontier, and when I hear "Horizon", I think of the Alaska feeder. So what was Frontier Horizon??


They were an early example of 'an airline within and airline'. A short-lived non-union Frontier subsidiary. Flights began on Jan. 9, 1984, from DEN to ORD, Washington (assume IAD as DEN is outside of DCA's perimeter) and SFO. NYC (again, unsure which airport), MCO, and TPA were later added. Horizon Air objected to the name so Frontier Discovery was going to be the new name, but Frontier folded the operation in May 1985 before any names on planes were changed. Assets were sold to new entrant Skybus. The operation used 7 ex-AA 727-123s, configured 10+99. Frontier Horizon was limited to 7 aircraft by an agreement with Frontier's unions. Some of the Horizon 727s were wet-leased by Frontier, and later Continental, from Skybus, which explains the 1986 photo with the 'hybrid' scheme.
Factual source: "Deregulation Knockouts, Volume One" by Tom W. Norwood. This book and its 'vol. 2' companion are invaluable sources of information on U.S. jet startups of the 80s and 90s.
 
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cosyr
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:44 am

departedflights wrote:
Cody wrote:
Continental had some ODD hybrids. It looks liked they glued a whole different tail on N1973.


I always found the way they just put a cursive "Continental's" in front of "New York Air" to be an interesting approach....


I never realized that the 3T0's came from New York Air, which explains the odd small fleet that CO had (I think 14), which were distinguishable at the end of their life, as they were the only 733's that CO added winglets too.

But it brings me to another question. The 14 3T0's were also the only 733's at CO that had ceiling mounted TV's. Did New York Air have TV's? That seems odd given the shorter routes that they were originally purchased for. Or were they purchased for a future longer distance expansion that never materialized before being bought out?
 
MO11
Posts: 2134
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:39 am

cosyr wrote:
I never realized that the 3T0's came from New York Air, which explains the odd small fleet that CO had (I think 14), which were distinguishable at the end of their life, as they were the only 733's that CO added winglets too.

But it brings me to another question. The 14 3T0's were also the only 733's at CO that had ceiling mounted TV's. Did New York Air have TV's? That seems odd given the shorter routes that they were originally purchased for. Or were they purchased for a future longer distance expansion that never materialized before being bought out?


There were over 60 737-3T0s, but Texas Air only took the first 55. Of the 55, New York Air took only 8 (actually nine, 331 flew for New York Air in CO colors). Many of the 55 ended up with winglets; certainly not as few as 14. The NY 737s did not have TVs; some of the later Continental planes did.
 
Fixinthe757
Posts: 298
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:25 am

Cody wrote:
Yesterday someone posted a picture of a United 737-200 at Denver Stapleton Airport. The photo was dated October 9, 1986.

In the background is a Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon colors, but with a Continental gold tail and meatball logo. It is not a PEOPLExpress hybrid as it is clearly a bare metal.fuselage and the red stripes end prior to the engine.....PEOPLExpress stripes went all the way the the APU.


Just for info, the APU on 727s were in the wheel well, and the exhaust was on top of the right wing right outside of the overwing exit
 
se210
Posts: 329
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:12 am

Fixinthe757 wrote:
Just for info, the APU on 727s were in the wheel well, and the exhaust was on top of the right wing right outside of the overwing exit

Here are some 727 photos showing the "dirty" APU exhaust residue above the right wing...
 
superjeff
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:41 am

Cody wrote:
Yesterday someone posted a picture of a United 737-200 at Denver Stapleton Airport. The photo was dated October 9, 1986.

In the background is a Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon colors, but with a Continental gold tail and meatball logo. It is not a PEOPLExpress hybrid as it is clearly a bare metal.fuselage and the red stripes end prior to the engine.....PEOPLExpress stripes went all the way the the APU.

Does anyone know the story of this airplane? Continental bought the original Frontier, but from what I understand Frontier Horizon had already been spun off to SkyBus at that point.

I have never seen a Continental 727 in bare metal until I saw this photo last night.

I would post it here but for some reason it won't let me.

Any info. Is greatly appreciated.



Totally independent of the acquisition of the remnants of Frontier or People Express, Continental leased a couple of American 727-100‘s for awhile. I was on one between IAH and DFW. Interior was American‘s configuration and colors.
 
superjeff
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:43 am

GSPSPOT wrote:
I remember the original Frontier, and when I hear "Horizon", I think of the Alaska feeder. So what was Frontier Horizon??



The original Frontier set up a non-union subsidiary, called Frontier Horizon. Lasted less than 2 years. They operated about 7 727-100‘s sourced from American Airlines. They operated from one or two dedicated gates on the Frontier Concourse at Denver Stapleton Airport.
 
superjeff
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:46 am

MDC862 wrote:
I remember seeing this plane, but refresh my memory on the co red and black tail logo. Was that norm?


Initially the Meatball was black; later it changed to red.
 
slcguy
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:58 am

se210 wrote:
Fixinthe757 wrote:
Just for info, the APU on 727s were in the wheel well, and the exhaust was on top of the right wing right outside of the overwing exit

Here are some 727 photos showing the "dirty" APU exhaust residue above the right wing...


I would guess first item on emergency evacuation checklist on the 727 is APU off since there are two window exits right above the APU exhaust.
 
slcguy
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:05 pm

MDC862 wrote:
I remember seeing this plane, but refresh my memory on the co red and black tail logo. Was that norm?


The meat ball logo, was black from late 1960's to early 80's then red from there on. The black is well remembered, the red not so fondly, Lorenzo era and bankruptsies. The meatball livery was replaced completely in early 90's with the blue and gold globe.
 
MO11
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:41 pm

slcguy wrote:

I would guess first item on emergency evacuation checklist on the 727 is APU off since there are two window exits right above the APU exhaust.


There were incidents where the APU would "torch" on start-up, and people would panic and open the right side exits.
 
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STT757
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:33 pm

MO11 wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I never realized that the 3T0's came from New York Air, which explains the odd small fleet that CO had (I think 14), which were distinguishable at the end of their life, as they were the only 733's that CO added winglets too.

But it brings me to another question. The 14 3T0's were also the only 733's at CO that had ceiling mounted TV's. Did New York Air have TV's? That seems odd given the shorter routes that they were originally purchased for. Or were they purchased for a future longer distance expansion that never materialized before being bought out?


There were over 60 737-3T0s, but Texas Air only took the first 55. Of the 55, New York Air took only 8 (actually nine, 331 flew for New York Air in CO colors). Many of the 55 ended up with winglets; certainly not as few as 14. The NY 737s did not have TVs; some of the later Continental planes did.


I remember reading in a Texas Air Annual Report, 1989?, that Texas Air was going split the 737-300 order between Continental and Eastern. Obviously the Eastern 737-300 never materialized. It would have been perfect for Atlanta.
 
MO11
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:49 pm

STT757 wrote:
I remember reading in a Texas Air Annual Report, 1989?, that Texas Air was going split the 737-300 order between Continental and Eastern. Obviously the Eastern 737-300 never materialized. It would have been perfect for Atlanta.


Remember that Texas ordered the first 55 of the airplanes in 1984-85 (well before Eastern was on the horizon). When it came time to take delivery, Continental was still in its first bankruptcy and the court would not let it take delivery of some of the airplanes. That's why some were diverted to New York Air, while three were diverted to "Continental West". Texas Air ordered the last seven airplanes in March 1988, for which it didn't take delivery.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:09 am

mga707 wrote:
GSPSPOT wrote:
I remember the original Frontier, and when I hear "Horizon", I think of the Alaska feeder. So what was Frontier Horizon??


They were an early example of 'an airline within and airline'. A short-lived non-union Frontier subsidiary. Flights began on Jan. 9, 1984, from DEN to ORD, Washington (assume IAD as DEN is outside of DCA's perimeter) and SFO. NYC (again, unsure which airport), MCO, and TPA were later added. Horizon Air objected to the name so Frontier Discovery was going to be the new name, but Frontier folded the operation in May 1985 before any names on planes were changed. Assets were sold to new entrant Skybus. The operation used 7 ex-AA 727-123s, configured 10+99. Frontier Horizon was limited to 7 aircraft by an agreement with Frontier's unions. Some of the Horizon 727s were wet-leased by Frontier, and later Continental, from Skybus, which explains the 1986 photo with the 'hybrid' scheme.
Factual source: "Deregulation Knockouts, Volume One" by Tom W. Norwood. This book and its 'vol. 2' companion are invaluable sources of information on U.S. jet startups of the 80s and 90s.

Ah, much like US's Metrojet or Continental Lite. Got it. Thanks.
 
justplanesmart
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Re: Continental 727 in Frontier Horizon Colors!

Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:18 am

DL_Mech wrote:
A better picture of this ex-AA 727-23:

https://www.airhistory.net/photo/299444/N1973


Even better is the Avianca 747-200B Combi in the background.

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