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robleroy121721
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Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:24 pm

Please excuse me if it's been discussed before; I used the search engine and found nothing.

But I've been wondering about Silver's operation in the Caribbean. Seaborne seems to be on it's way out with just a few Saab's in it's fleet and Silver is retiring their's. My question is, will they retire the ones based in the Caribbean and replace them with ATR's? The network doesn't seem to warrant a big capacity like the American Eagle hub days. So, even though I know it could just be pure speculation, does anyone have any theories or ideas as to what their future decisions will be after the Saab's are retired?
 
MO11
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:42 pm

robleroy121721 wrote:
Please excuse me if it's been discussed before; I used the search engine and found nothing.

But I've been wondering about Silver's operation in the Caribbean. Seaborne seems to be on it's way out with just a few Saab's in it's fleet and Silver is retiring their's. My question is, will they retire the ones based in the Caribbean and replace them with ATR's? The network doesn't seem to warrant a big capacity like the American Eagle hub days. So, even though I know it could just be pure speculation, does anyone have any theories or ideas as to what their future decisions will be after the Saab's are retired?


The plan is to replace the SAABs with ATRs. There are only 4 SAABs left, which are all operated by Silver. The Twin Otters are still operated by Seaborne.
 
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robleroy121721
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:45 am

MO11 wrote:
robleroy121721 wrote:
Please excuse me if it's been discussed before; I used the search engine and found nothing.

But I've been wondering about Silver's operation in the Caribbean. Seaborne seems to be on it's way out with just a few Saab's in it's fleet and Silver is retiring their's. My question is, will they retire the ones based in the Caribbean and replace them with ATR's? The network doesn't seem to warrant a big capacity like the American Eagle hub days. So, even though I know it could just be pure speculation, does anyone have any theories or ideas as to what their future decisions will be after the Saab's are retired?


The plan is to replace the SAABs with ATRs. There are only 4 SAABs left, which are all operated by Silver. The Twin Otters are still operated by Seaborne.


But will the network actually survive with the capacity boost?
 
baje427
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:47 am

Most Caribbean islands have direct flights to the US the need for an American Eagle type hub in SJU no longer exists. I can't see where Silver would expand their limited network should be enough.
 
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JBo
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:43 pm

robleroy121721 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
robleroy121721 wrote:
Please excuse me if it's been discussed before; I used the search engine and found nothing.

But I've been wondering about Silver's operation in the Caribbean. Seaborne seems to be on it's way out with just a few Saab's in it's fleet and Silver is retiring their's. My question is, will they retire the ones based in the Caribbean and replace them with ATR's? The network doesn't seem to warrant a big capacity like the American Eagle hub days. So, even though I know it could just be pure speculation, does anyone have any theories or ideas as to what their future decisions will be after the Saab's are retired?


The plan is to replace the SAABs with ATRs. There are only 4 SAABs left, which are all operated by Silver. The Twin Otters are still operated by Seaborne.


But will the network actually survive with the capacity boost?


The ATR-42 isn't *that* huge of a capacity boost, and Silver is reducing a bunch of their overhead operating costs by phasing out the Saabs and only having the ATR family to operate and maintain. Chances are, from an over-arching operational cost standpoint, there isn't going to be a huge difference for Silver to operate the ATR-42s on former Saab routes at the same load factors over maintaining the separate Saab fleet.
 
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robleroy121721
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:16 pm

baje427 wrote:
Most Caribbean islands have direct flights to the US the need for an American Eagle type hub in SJU no longer exists. I can't see where Silver would expand their limited network should be enough.


That's exactly what I think so as well.

JBo wrote:
robleroy121721 wrote:
MO11 wrote:

The plan is to replace the SAABs with ATRs. There are only 4 SAABs left, which are all operated by Silver. The Twin Otters are still operated by Seaborne.


But will the network actually survive with the capacity boost?


The ATR-42 isn't *that* huge of a capacity boost, and Silver is reducing a bunch of their overhead operating costs by phasing out the Saabs and only having the ATR family to operate and maintain. Chances are, from an over-arching operational cost standpoint, there isn't going to be a huge difference for Silver to operate the ATR-42s on former Saab routes at the same load factors over maintaining the separate Saab fleet.


Well, going from 34 to 46 seats is quite a boost considering how the market is nowadays, more so when we do get the ATR-72 every now and then. Which is what had me wondering in the first place if any operational changes would take place to keep the network afloat since the Saab's seem to have been the perfect aircraft for the market.
 
A388
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:03 pm

robleroy121721 wrote:
Well, going from 34 to 46 seats is quite a boost considering how the market is nowadays, more so when we do get the ATR-72 every now and then. Which is what had me wondering in the first place if any operational changes would take place to keep the network afloat since the Saab's seem to have been the perfect aircraft for the market.


I agree with robleroy on this, going from 34 seats to 46 seats is a big difference, about 35% more capacity. However, if this change equals lower operational and maintenance costs at the same level of operation, than it probably is a good move. I assume Silver's management has done their calculations and numbers crunching to replace their SB340's with their ATR42's(?)

A388
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:04 pm

robleroy121721 wrote:

Well, going from 34 to 46 seats is quite a boost considering how the market is nowadays, more so when we do get the ATR-72 every now and then. Which is what had me wondering in the first place if any operational changes would take place to keep the network afloat since the Saab's seem to have been the perfect aircraft for the market.


Looking at Silver's Caribbean destinations, Tortola has no US mainline option. Dominica and Anguilla only have one AA Envoy E-175 flight per day to MIA. There's probably decent inter-island traffic too.
 
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robleroy121721
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:49 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
robleroy121721 wrote:

Well, going from 34 to 46 seats is quite a boost considering how the market is nowadays, more so when we do get the ATR-72 every now and then. Which is what had me wondering in the first place if any operational changes would take place to keep the network afloat since the Saab's seem to have been the perfect aircraft for the market.



Looking at Silver's Caribbean destinations, Tortola has no US mainline option. Dominica and Anguilla only have one AA Envoy E-175 flight per day to MIA. There's probably decent inter-island traffic too.


I do hope the network works with the replacements. Locals do more VFR from the mainland nowadays rather than the other way around as the majority of Puerto Ricans now live outside of the island. So the traffic is much more dependant on connections. As far as connections go, UA, AA, B6, and DL have codeshares with Silver, but even these seem to be split with 9K and other airlines.
 
dominicl316
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:51 am

tjwgrr wrote:

Looking at Silver's Caribbean destinations, Tortola has no US mainline option. Dominica and Anguilla only have one AA Envoy E-175 flight per day to MIA. There's probably decent inter-island traffic too.


According to a recent webinar hosted by the Caribbean Hotel and Tourism Association, the CEO of the company managing SJU stated that they are looking to position Puerto Rico as a key player in the inter-Caribbean tourism market. Also, increased regional flights into SJU by Silver would present many connecting opportunities to STX/STT, which are both sorely lacking in regional traffic.
 
caribny
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:51 pm

dominicl316 wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:

Looking at Silver's Caribbean destinations, Tortola has no US mainline option. Dominica and Anguilla only have one AA Envoy E-175 flight per day to MIA. There's probably decent inter-island traffic too.


According to a recent webinar hosted by the Caribbean Hotel and Tourism Association, the CEO of the company managing SJU stated that they are looking to position Puerto Rico as a key player in the inter-Caribbean tourism market. Also, increased regional flights into SJU by Silver would present many connecting opportunities to STX/STT, which are both sorely lacking in regional traffic.


The PR gov't has been trying to replace Eagle since they pulled out. Seaborne (now Silver) is a shadow of what it once was. And now with AXA, FDF, DOM, and PTP getting Eagle service out of MIA with E-jet service I really am not sure what their prospects are. As of now there is no SJU ANU service as Silver dropped out, and this despite LI no longer handling this route.

PR can wish what it wants, but that doesnt mean that they will get it. In fact Silver doesnt even properly integrate its USVI SJU flights with its SJU Eastern Caribbean services, which accounts for the difficulties from the USVI to the rest of the Caribbean now that LI only does a scant 1w STT ANU service.
 
dominicl316
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:46 pm

caribny wrote:

PR can wish what it wants, but that doesnt mean that they will get it. In fact Silver doesnt even properly integrate its USVI SJU flights with its SJU Eastern Caribbean services, which accounts for the difficulties from the USVI to the rest of the Caribbean now that LI only does a scant 1w STT ANU service.


Some of Silver's Eastern Caribbean services depart at different times depending on the day of the week. Some days allow for same-day connections to STX/STT while others do not.
 
qcpilotxf
Posts: 212
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:56 am

robleroy121721 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
robleroy121721 wrote:
Please excuse me if it's been discussed before; I used the search engine and found nothing.

But I've been wondering about Silver's operation in the Caribbean. Seaborne seems to be on it's way out with just a few Saab's in it's fleet and Silver is retiring their's. My question is, will they retire the ones based in the Caribbean and replace them with ATR's? The network doesn't seem to warrant a big capacity like the American Eagle hub days. So, even though I know it could just be pure speculation, does anyone have any theories or ideas as to what their future decisions will be after the Saab's are retired?


The plan is to replace the SAABs with ATRs. There are only 4 SAABs left, which are all operated by Silver. The Twin Otters are still operated by Seaborne.


But will the network actually survive with the capacity boost?


I think you are assuming that a capacity boost means an increase in cost or a loss in revenue. Replacing an older less efficient aircraft with a new one that is more efficient even if you are only filling the same amount of seats can still make the same amount of money, or even more money.

OId planes are expensive, hard to find parts for, hard to train crews on, etc. Newer aircraft can solve all of these problems, sometimes without increasing the cost of the operation.
 
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robleroy121721
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Re: Silver Airways (3M/SIL) Caribbean Network

Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:59 am

qcpilotxf wrote:
robleroy121721 wrote:
MO11 wrote:

The plan is to replace the SAABs with ATRs. There are only 4 SAABs left, which are all operated by Silver. The Twin Otters are still operated by Seaborne.


But will the network actually survive with the capacity boost?


I think you are assuming that a capacity boost means an increase in cost or a loss in revenue. Replacing an older less efficient aircraft with a new one that is more efficient even if you are only filling the same amount of seats can still make the same amount of money, or even more money.

OId planes are expensive, hard to find parts for, hard to train crews on, etc. Newer aircraft can solve all of these problems, sometimes without increasing the cost of the operation.


Fair point

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