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xwb565
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Media reports: Airbus close to Air India deal for A350 aircraft

Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:07 am

AI said to be close to 50 a350 order
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 262_1.html

The airline on Wednesday asked its pilots to prepare for training on the aircraft. “Air India is in the process of augmenting its existing fleet with the A350 type of aircraft with the Entry into Service. You are requested to give your acceptance of your willingness to be taken up for Conversion training on the A350 aircraft,” a memo to pilots reviewed by Business Standard said.


The delivery timing suggests undelivered QR frames? The article seems to think its Aerofloat NTUs.
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
smi0006
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:17 am

I suppose a fleet of 900, and 1000 would make sense for their route network? With a fleet of 320 family for domestic and regional?

I wonder what state the new owners have found the 777 and 787 in? They only have 788? Maybe a refleet is a cleaner option, tidy up contracts, and maintenance? Rather than trying to sort out the current fleet mess?
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:40 am

most definitely a 777 replacement, starting with N. American routes to SFO, ORD, JFK, EWR, IAD, YYZ, and YVR. It might even allow AI to launch new markets like LAX, IAH, or DFW.

AI should consider ditching F on the A350s, improving the J product, and adding Y+ for the new birds.
 
MDC862
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:43 am

I seem to recall AI canabolizing new 787s for parts to keep the others flying. A lessor's nightmare trying to keep serial numbered planes back together. Not to mention the shody service records.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:09 am

Not too surprised by this, the A350 is quite appealing for a 9ab 777 operator like AI as it's very close in capacity. They also have quite a few long routes which favour the A350's payload/range capability. Availability is also on the A350's side at present. If the order is indeed 50, that would seem to cover 787 replacement as well, which does seem strange to me, though. Maybe that includes options, though.

A321neo order is unsurprising.
Last edited by MrHMSH on Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:09 am

Right now they seem to have 23 787s and 13 777s, for a total of 36 widebodies. So 50 new 350s would be a one for one replacement plus give them some interesting room for growth (14 planes). Interesting transition by the way, I believe the 3 types will coexist for some time...
 
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SQ22
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:18 am

MrHMSH wrote:
Not too surprised by this, the A350 is quite appealing for a 9ab 777 operator like AI as it's very close in capacity. They also have quite a few long routes which favour the A350's payload/range capability. Availability is also on the A350's side at present. If the order is indeed 50, that would seem to cover 787 replacement as well, which does seem strange to me, though. Maybe that includes options, though.

A321neo order is unsurprising.


Bloomberg is talking of around 20 frames.

Airbus Looks Set to Win A350 Deal From Tata-Owned Air India
 
smi0006
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:20 am

jmmadrid wrote:
Right now they seem to have 23 787s and 13 777s, for a total of 36 widebodies. So 50 new 350s would be a one for one replacement plus give them some interesting room for growth (14 planes). Interesting transition by the way, I believe the 3 types will coexist for some time...


Not to be harsh - but are all those 787 and 777 flying? The ones they parted out are they back in one piece and flying again?

Very curious and excited to see what TATA does with AI and if they can whip them into shape! A new premium product, and a refreshed brand - reflecting a reenergised and disciplined AI would be fantastic as a new fleet joins the carrier!
 
Opus99
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:31 am

I see them moving to the 787-8 and A350-900 overall. I don’t think it will be 50 frames though. Like Bloomberg reported more like 20
 
Blerg
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:41 am

That will be one good looking aircraft in their livery.
 
TC957
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:47 am

AI should consider ditching F on the A350s, improving the J product, and adding Y+ for the new birds.[/quote]
They need F for all the free upgrades for Indian government ministers and officials....
 
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RWA380
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:49 am

IrishAyes wrote:
most definitely a 777 replacement, starting with N. American routes to SFO, ORD, JFK, EWR, IAD, YYZ, and YVR. It might even allow AI to launch new markets like LAX, IAH, or DFW.

AI should consider ditching F on the A350s, improving the J product, and adding Y+ for the new birds.


I concur, however I think DFW is a longer shot than the other two, just as Star Alliance hub cities seem more likely, especially given their current North American cities. LAX & IAH, are likely in the works.

As far as ditching F, I concur, however a premium heavy layout is needed to reach the ULH routes the A-350-900 is known for. Maybe AI feels they'll keep Russia overfly privilege for a very long time, or that these have the range to skirt certain countries if needed.
 
SXDFC
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:06 am

I wonder if the A350s will arrive in a new livery? Seemed like the last time AI made an order this big, it’s when they introduced the current livery. Although designed for much more classic lines, I’ve always loved the delivery scheme AI had on its 747s.
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:32 am

The mock-ups have already started!

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_hXsxFlAVT/?hl=en
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:33 am

Does this signal a general move away from Boeing in the Tata group airlines or am I reading too much in to this?
 
DIJKKIJK
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:50 am

MDC862 wrote:
I seem to recall AI canabolizing new 787s for parts to keep the others flying. A lessor's nightmare trying to keep serial numbered planes back together. Not to mention the shody service records.


Any link to your 'claims', or is it just your personal opinion?
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:26 am

SQ22 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
Not too surprised by this, the A350 is quite appealing for a 9ab 777 operator like AI as it's very close in capacity. They also have quite a few long routes which favour the A350's payload/range capability. Availability is also on the A350's side at present. If the order is indeed 50, that would seem to cover 787 replacement as well, which does seem strange to me, though. Maybe that includes options, though.

A321neo order is unsurprising.


Bloomberg is talking of around 20 frames.

Airbus Looks Set to Win A350 Deal From Tata-Owned Air India


Makes more sense. Direct 777 replacement.
 
Kiwiandrew
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:27 am

Opus99 wrote:
I see them moving to the 787-8 and A350-900 overall. I don’t think it will be 50 frames though. Like Bloomberg reported more like 20


I'm wondering whether it might be an order for 20 ish, but with a large number of options, e.g. 30 to take the possible commitments to a total of 50. Yes, that seems a high number looking at AI today, but if Tata really manages to turn AI around they may need a lot more aircraft. The airline has aimed low and still missed for a very long time, but a well run AI would have huge potential .
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:21 am

TATA has not bought Air India to maintain the status quo.

There is a burgeoning middle / upper class in India with disposable income and desirous of international travel.

I can see TATA using the A350 to make Air India the airline of choice for these groups flying internationally, as a demonstrable "break from the past". Maybe re-purposing the 787s into a Scoot / Zipair concept for domestic trunk routes and high volume non-premium international destinations.
 
swapcv
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:48 am

787's are here to stay. As for rumors around shoddy maintenance and cannibalization of aircraft, those usually are from the pre-2015 era when there was no professional management in charge of the Airline. Also while the pandemic hit AI hard, unlike the old days, they are not cannibalizing frames to keep other aircraft flying like before. The aircraft grounded currently are mostly because the airline was cash starved and had no use of those aircraft making them surplus during the Pandemic era. However with new management things will change. As for the A350's, they're primarily being brought into renew their primary premier long haul fleet, which is currently the 777. With 5 77L's sold in 2013, AIC never could muster enough aircraft to expand their North American destinations nor had the suitable equipment to do so in the form of their 787-8's which do fall short in both capacity and range requirements. Thus, the A350 will allow them to slot in more destinations to North America while freeing up the 787 fleet to focus on EU, Asia, Australia and perhaps in the future Africa (everyone forgets AI had a sizeable African network once) as well. First to leave AI's widebody fleet will be those clapped out 777-200LR's that have the worst CASM right now, while the 777-300ER fleet will be drawn down slowly. But by 2030's one can expect AI's widebody fleet to be composed of 787-8's and A350-900's and perhaps A350-1000's.
 
JetAirways
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:23 am

swapcv wrote:
787's are here to stay. As for rumors around shoddy maintenance and cannibalization of aircraft, those usually are from the pre-2015 era when there was no professional management in charge of the Airline. Also while the pandemic hit AI hard, unlike the old days, they are not cannibalizing frames to keep other aircraft flying like before. The aircraft grounded currently are mostly because the airline was cash starved and had no use of those aircraft making them surplus during the Pandemic era. However with new management things will change. As for the A350's, they're primarily being brought into renew their primary premier long haul fleet, which is currently the 777. With 5 77L's sold in 2013, AIC never could muster enough aircraft to expand their North American destinations nor had the suitable equipment to do so in the form of their 787-8's which do fall short in both capacity and range requirements. Thus, the A350 will allow them to slot in more destinations to North America while freeing up the 787 fleet to focus on EU, Asia, Australia and perhaps in the future Africa (everyone forgets AI had a sizeable African network once) as well. First to leave AI's widebody fleet will be those clapped out 777-200LR's that have the worst CASM right now, while the 777-300ER fleet will be drawn down slowly. But by 2030's one can expect AI's widebody fleet to be composed of 787-8's and A350-900's and perhaps A350-1000's.


You are 100% accurate my friend! However I do feel that the replacement would be focused around the 777-300ERs. I think that the order would be more towards the A35K with a less number of A359s but I could be wrong. I also think that some A359s could replace some early build 788s which could be used on high demand and high yield routes to Europe and Asia such as DEL-LHR. Hope they really get their act together with a good F/J product which was really lacking on the 777s. Angle lay flat - seven across seats in J were horrid on the 777s!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:27 am

DIJKKIJK wrote:
MDC862 wrote:
I seem to recall AI canabolizing new 787s for parts to keep the others flying. A lessor's nightmare trying to keep serial numbered planes back together. Not to mention the shody service records.


Any link to your 'claims', or is it just your personal opinion?


It was a while ago now, but it was well documented here at the time. There's no doubt it happened.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:47 am

scbriml wrote:
DIJKKIJK wrote:
MDC862 wrote:
I seem to recall AI canabolizing new 787s for parts to keep the others flying. A lessor's nightmare trying to keep serial numbered planes back together. Not to mention the shody service records.


Any link to your 'claims', or is it just your personal opinion?


It was a while ago now, but it was well documented here at the time. There's no doubt it happened.



I'm quite sure this is why they're ordering 50, when they only really need 32... Those extra 18 are for parts.. :duck:

But as swapcv mentioned, those stories are from pre-2015....
 
killswitch13
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:34 am

Surely BOM and DEL will be a big base for these aircrafts. A lot of US routes from premium heavy BOM can be started now using these aircrafts which was not possible earlier due to shortage of aircrafts.
 
kriskim
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:42 am

SXDFC wrote:
I wonder if the A350s will arrive in a new livery? Seemed like the last time AI made an order this big, it’s when they introduced the current livery. Although designed for much more classic lines, I’ve always loved the delivery scheme AI had on its 747s.


I might be in the minority here, but I hope they ditch the titles on the tail like what they did with the 787’s. I think the tail looks very messy with them.
 
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Polot
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:45 am

kriskim wrote:
SXDFC wrote:
I wonder if the A350s will arrive in a new livery? Seemed like the last time AI made an order this big, it’s when they introduced the current livery. Although designed for much more classic lines, I’ve always loved the delivery scheme AI had on its 747s.


I might be in the minority here, but I hope they ditch the titles on the tail like what they did with the 787’s. I think the tail looks very messy with them.

Is there any particular reason why the 787s and only the 787s ditched the tail titles and red stripe along the fuselage? I agree that it looks better than the other livery which can look cluttered.
 
xdlx
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:03 pm

MDC862 wrote:
I seem to recall AI canabolizing new 787s for parts to keep the others flying. A lessor's nightmare trying to keep serial numbered planes back together. Not to mention the shody service records.


Standard Operating Process for AI.
 
kaitak
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:23 pm

I seem to recall VT-ANI was out of service for a very long time due to missing and/or cannibalised parts. As others have mentioned, it is well documented and I'm sure it's happened with other types, probably other 777s as well.

I do hope that period of AI's history is behind it.
 
airboss787
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:58 pm

Polot wrote:
kriskim wrote:
SXDFC wrote:
I wonder if the A350s will arrive in a new livery? Seemed like the last time AI made an order this big, it’s when they introduced the current livery. Although designed for much more classic lines, I’ve always loved the delivery scheme AI had on its 747s.


I might be in the minority here, but I hope they ditch the titles on the tail like what they did with the 787’s. I think the tail looks very messy with them.

Is there any particular reason why the 787s and only the 787s ditched the tail titles and red stripe along the fuselage? I agree that it looks better than the other livery which can look cluttered.


The width of the tail was too narrow to add both elements of the livery. Hence, they ditched the titles.

On another note, I do hope they start naming their planes again. It was quite sad when they stopped doing that, again with the 787s.
 
avier
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:35 pm

kriskim wrote:
SXDFC wrote:
I wonder if the A350s will arrive in a new livery? Seemed like the last time AI made an order this big, it’s when they introduced the current livery. Although designed for much more classic lines, I’ve always loved the delivery scheme AI had on its 747s.


I might be in the minority here, but I hope they ditch the titles on the tail like what they did with the 787’s. I think the tail looks very messy with them.

I second that, also the engine outer surface is painted in the off-white scheme on 787 unlike rest of fleet which is red with sun ray stripes. It looks overall more neat and clean.
 
avier
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:37 pm

Could the A350-900 standard variant replace the 777-200LR routes (like DEL-SFO) ? If not, the A350-1000 would be a better fit.
 
TC957
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:23 pm

avier wrote:
Could the A350-900 standard variant replace the 777-200LR routes (like DEL-SFO) ? If not, the A350-1000 would be a better fit.

Easily. DEL - SFO is about 800 miles less than MNL - JFK and 600 less than SIN - SFO that the A359 does.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:58 pm

avier wrote:
Could the A350-900 standard variant replace the 777-200LR routes (like DEL-SFO) ? If not, the A350-1000 would be a better fit.


At 6697nm, DEL-SFO is meat and drink for a 283 or even 280T A359.
 
subramak1
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:44 pm

TC957 wrote:
AI should consider ditching F on the A350s, improving the J product, and adding Y+ for the new birds.

They need F for all the free upgrades for Indian government ministers and officials....[/quote]

Yep. But Air India is now a private entity. As part of Air India sale, did Indian government not pick up 3 77Ws for use by India's PM and President.

Wikipedia says AI has 27 788, 13 77W and 3 LR.

Best, Subramanian
 
airboss787
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:48 pm

smi0006 wrote:
I suppose a fleet of 900, and 1000 would make sense for their route network? With a fleet of 320 family for domestic and regional?

I wonder what state the new owners have found the 777 and 787 in? They only have 788? Maybe a refleet is a cleaner option, tidy up contracts, and maintenance? Rather than trying to sort out the current fleet mess?


The funny thing is, even if Boeing wants to, they have no wide body aircraft to deliver new anytime soon. No 787s and 777s for sometime. Really sad for Boeing. It is a no-brainer that Airbus will win this order.
 
subramak1
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:06 pm

I would prefer the 789 but since Boeing cant deliver anything right now, they are left with A350. India has 6 major metro areas with International traffic potential. Given that Air India is now a Tata group, which is a highly trusted by Indians (Dont ask me why)

DEL - Main gateway but needs more frames to support flights to other locations. To US alone, it can add new service to Boston, Dallas, Seattle, Atlanta, LAX from Delhi alone, even at 3 services a week, this will require 5-6 frames.
BOM - Can add new services to South Africa, FRA , JFK, ORD
BLR - service to EWR, SFO, LHR and FRA
MAA - service to EWR, LON may be ICN
PNQ - Service to FRA
HYD - Service to FRA, ORD

All these Indian cities have fairly strong ties to US economy( with exception of PNQ which is more to EU) plus VFR traffic. In spite of COVID Indi is better placed and even a global recession should not stop much of this happening. It will hurt likes of EK, QR etc.

Best, Subramanian
 
portola2727
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:36 pm

subramak1 wrote:
I would prefer the 789 but since Boeing cant deliver anything right now, they are left with A350. India has 6 major metro areas with International traffic potential. Given that Air India is now a Tata group, which is a highly trusted by Indians (Dont ask me why)

DEL - Main gateway but needs more frames to support flights to other locations. To US alone, it can add new service to Boston, Dallas, Seattle, Atlanta, LAX from Delhi alone, even at 3 services a week, this will require 5-6 frames.
BOM - Can add new services to South Africa, FRA , JFK, ORD
BLR - service to EWR, SFO, LHR and FRA
MAA - service to EWR, LON may be ICN
PNQ - Service to FRA
HYD - Service to FRA, ORD

All these Indian cities have fairly strong ties to US economy( with exception of PNQ which is more to EU) plus VFR traffic. In spite of COVID Indi is better placed and even a global recession should not stop much of this happening. It will hurt likes of EK, QR etc.

Best, Subramanian

You could add EWR/JFK and LAX to BOM. EWR/JFK due to NYC's strong financial ties and LAX for Hollywood-Bollywood traffic, although I think LAX will be better connected to DEL than BOM.
 
Opus99
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Re: Media reports: Air India may odrer 50 a350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:03 pm

airboss787 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
I suppose a fleet of 900, and 1000 would make sense for their route network? With a fleet of 320 family for domestic and regional?

I wonder what state the new owners have found the 777 and 787 in? They only have 788? Maybe a refleet is a cleaner option, tidy up contracts, and maintenance? Rather than trying to sort out the current fleet mess?


The funny thing is, even if Boeing wants to, they have no wide body aircraft to deliver new anytime soon. No 787s and 777s for sometime. Really sad for Boeing. It is a no-brainer that Airbus will win this order.

787 to start deliveries shortly. FAA has approved Boeings submission.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... eliveries/
 
yashk
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:53 pm

I am also looking forward to see if out of the 100 A321s, if Tata chooses a few XLRs. With a premium config of about 16-20 lie flats, the plane could do most of Europe from DEL (other than Spain, Portugal, Ireland). I could see AI fly to destinations such as BER, MUC, PRG, ARN, CPH, VIE, FCO, MXP, ZRH, AMS, ATH, IST and many more. Pre pandemic AI had 3 or 4 weekly flights to VIE, FCO, MXP, ARN , CPH. and MAD (apart from LHR, FRA, CDG) .

With a feeder network from all Indian cities, SE Asia and Australia, AI could support these flights on a narrow body.
 
777luver
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:12 am

yashk wrote:
I am also looking forward to see if out of the 100 A321s, if Tata chooses a few XLRs. With a premium config of about 16-20 lie flats, the plane could do most of Europe from DEL (other than Spain, Portugal, Ireland). I could see AI fly to destinations such as BER, MUC, PRG, ARN, CPH, VIE, FCO, MXP, ZRH, AMS, ATH, IST and many more. Pre pandemic AI had 3 or 4 weekly flights to VIE, FCO, MXP, ARN , CPH. and MAD (apart from LHR, FRA, CDG) .

With a feeder network from all Indian cities, SE Asia and Australia, AI could support these flights on a narrow body.


With a full load of heavy bags? I highly doubt that they'll be able to make DEL work to western Europe, especially on a hot day woth DEL being hot and high. Empty? Sure not a problem likely
 
3D101CA
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:22 am

I honestly hope Air India can turn around and become a better airline over time. With better management, things could be much different. With no 777X the A350 seems like a natural replacement for it's long haul fleet.

Not relating to this, I have a question about Air India in general. They fly many point to point routes from India to Europe from secondary cities outside of its main hub from DEL. For example, ATQ has service to BHX and LHR. As well, LHR is also served from AMD, GOI, HYD, COK, and BOM.

I am wondering, will the future Air India focus on only DEL as a hub and end the point to point european non-hub routes? Or will secondary cities in India still have long haul routes? Just wondering what Tata is planning to make Air India profitable again.
 
Somerandom787
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:41 am

subramak1 wrote:
I would prefer the 789 but since Boeing cant deliver anything right now, they are left with A350. India has 6 major metro areas with International traffic potential. Given that Air India is now a Tata group, which is a highly trusted by Indians (Dont ask me why)

DEL - Main gateway but needs more frames to support flights to other locations. To US alone, it can add new service to Boston, Dallas, Seattle, Atlanta, LAX from Delhi alone, even at 3 services a week, this will require 5-6 frames.
BOM - Can add new services to South Africa, FRA , JFK, ORD
BLR - service to EWR, SFO, LHR and FRA
MAA - service to EWR, LON may be ICN
PNQ - Service to FRA
HYD - Service to FRA, ORD

All these Indian cities have fairly strong ties to US economy( with exception of PNQ which is more to EU) plus VFR traffic. In spite of COVID Indi is better placed and even a global recession should not stop much of this happening. It will hurt likes of EK, QR etc.

Best, Subramanian


HYD could see EWR service, and I don't think MAA is getting ICN service. I think CCU could get FRA service.

Also, PNQ probably can't handle widebodies.
 
avier
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Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:09 am

3D101CA wrote:
I honestly hope Air India can turn around and become a better airline over time. With better management, things could be much different. With no 777X the A350 seems like a natural replacement for it's long haul fleet.

Not relating to this, I have a question about Air India in general. They fly many point to point routes from India to Europe from secondary cities outside of its main hub from DEL. For example, ATQ has service to BHX and LHR. As well, LHR is also served from AMD, GOI, HYD, COK, and BOM.

I am wondering, will the future Air India focus on only DEL as a hub and end the point to point european non-hub routes? Or will secondary cities in India still have long haul routes? Just wondering what Tata is planning to make Air India profitable again.

That depends on how Tata's plan to align AI and Vistara.

The latter too has their hub in DEL and has connections to EU and has plans for North America. So the two sister airlines would end up competing each other.

Ideally AI should focus outside of DEL too, from other metro and tier 2 cities, making good use of their 788 fleet which can serve this purpose.

With Tata House (Bombay House) based in Mumbai, housing all the Tata companies head offices in the financial capital, I won't be surprised if AI makes BOM the hub again, alongside DEL.
 
killswitch13
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:47 am

avier wrote:
3D101CA wrote:
I honestly hope Air India can turn around and become a better airline over time. With better management, things could be much different. With no 777X the A350 seems like a natural replacement for it's long haul fleet.

Not relating to this, I have a question about Air India in general. They fly many point to point routes from India to Europe from secondary cities outside of its main hub from DEL. For example, ATQ has service to BHX and LHR. As well, LHR is also served from AMD, GOI, HYD, COK, and BOM.

I am wondering, will the future Air India focus on only DEL as a hub and end the point to point european non-hub routes? Or will secondary cities in India still have long haul routes? Just wondering what Tata is planning to make Air India profitable again.

That depends on how Tata's plan to align AI and Vistara.

The latter too has their hub in DEL and has connections to EU and has plans for North America. So the two sister airlines would end up competing each other.

Ideally AI should focus outside of DEL too, from other metro and tier 2 cities, making good use of their 788 fleet which can serve this purpose.

With Tata House (Bombay House) based in Mumbai, housing all the Tata companies head offices in the financial capital, I won't be surprised if AI makes BOM the hub again, alongside DEL.


BOM surely due to its space constraints won't be a primary hub. Also AI along with UK are planning to shift to a new address in Gurugram
 
HL300MUC
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:25 am

Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:09 am

subramak1 wrote:
I would prefer the 789 but since Boeing cant deliver anything right now, they are left with A350. India has 6 major metro areas with International traffic potential. Given that Air India is now a Tata group, which is a highly trusted by Indians (Dont ask me why)

DEL - Main gateway but needs more frames to support flights to other locations. To US alone, it can add new service to Boston, Dallas, Seattle, Atlanta, LAX from Delhi alone, even at 3 services a week, this will require 5-6 frames.
BOM - Can add new services to South Africa, FRA , JFK, ORD
BLR - service to EWR, SFO, LHR and FRA
MAA - service to EWR, LON may be ICN
PNQ - Service to FRA
HYD - Service to FRA, ORD

All these Indian cities have fairly strong ties to US economy( with exception of PNQ which is more to EU) plus VFR traffic. In spite of COVID Indi is better placed and even a global recession should not stop much of this happening. It will hurt likes of EK, QR etc.

Best, Subramanian


Perhaps the 350 fits their missions better and thus they are not, as you said, left with 350s.
 
yashk
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:57 am

777luver wrote:
yashk wrote:
I am also looking forward to see if out of the 100 A321s, if Tata chooses a few XLRs. With a premium config of about 16-20 lie flats, the plane could do most of Europe from DEL (other than Spain, Portugal, Ireland). I could see AI fly to destinations such as BER, MUC, PRG, ARN, CPH, VIE, FCO, MXP, ZRH, AMS, ATH, IST and many more. Pre pandemic AI had 3 or 4 weekly flights to VIE, FCO, MXP, ARN , CPH. and MAD (apart from LHR, FRA, CDG) .

With a feeder network from all Indian cities, SE Asia and Australia, AI could support these flights on a narrow body.


With a full load of heavy bags? I highly doubt that they'll be able to make DEL work to western Europe, especially on a hot day woth DEL being hot and high. Empty? Sure not a problem likely

SAS's A321LRs are equipped with around 160 seats and TAP has around 170 seats. These planes and consistently fly upwards of 8 hours. I am sure the XLR will be able to reach most of Europe barring the extreme west countries such as UK, Spain and Portugal.
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:54 pm

subramak1 wrote:
I would prefer the 789 but since Boeing cant deliver anything right now, they are left with A350. India has 6 major metro areas with International traffic potential. Given that Air India is now a Tata group, which is a highly trusted by Indians (Dont ask me why)

DEL - Main gateway but needs more frames to support flights to other locations. To US alone, it can add new service to Boston, Dallas, Seattle, Atlanta, LAX from Delhi alone, even at 3 services a week, this will require 5-6 frames.
BOM - Can add new services to South Africa, FRA , JFK, ORD
BLR - service to EWR, SFO, LHR and FRA
MAA - service to EWR, LON may be ICN
PNQ - Service to FRA
HYD - Service to FRA, ORD

All these Indian cities have fairly strong ties to US economy( with exception of PNQ which is more to EU) plus VFR traffic. In spite of COVID Indi is better placed and even a global recession should not stop much of this happening. It will hurt likes of EK, QR etc.

Best, Subramanian


For the last twenty years or so, the various Indian carriers have been receiving all these longhaul planes, and we always speculate about all the new services that will be started, and it just never seems to happen. Will this time be any different?
 
VTORD
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:01 pm

Somerandom787 wrote:

HYD could see EWR service, and I don't think MAA is getting ICN service. I think CCU could get FRA service.

Also, PNQ probably can't handle widebodies.

Yes PNQ has that limitation but could the XLR make it to FRA from PNQ? Re-opening the Privat Air route

avier wrote:
That depends on how Tata's plan to align AI and Vistara.

The latter too has their hub in DEL and has connections to EU and has plans for North America. So the two sister airlines would end up competing each other.

Ideally AI should focus outside of DEL too, from other metro and tier 2 cities, making good use of their 788 fleet which can serve this purpose.

With Tata House (Bombay House) based in Mumbai, housing all the Tata companies head offices in the financial capital, I won't be surprised if AI makes BOM the hub again, alongside DEL.

What's the slot situation in BOM like? Won't that be a big hurdle to develop a "hub", even a secondary one (assuming eventual merger of the two airlines - I don't see how that is not happening). I do agree on the B788 point. With 20 A350s being a pretty 1-1 replacement of the T7s, A350 + B788 would be a great WB fleet mix. Plus they are not even that old.
 
Somerandom787
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:55 pm

Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:17 pm

killswitch13 wrote:
avier wrote:
3D101CA wrote:
I honestly hope Air India can turn around and become a better airline over time. With better management, things could be much different. With no 777X the A350 seems like a natural replacement for it's long haul fleet.

Not relating to this, I have a question about Air India in general. They fly many point to point routes from India to Europe from secondary cities outside of its main hub from DEL. For example, ATQ has service to BHX and LHR. As well, LHR is also served from AMD, GOI, HYD, COK, and BOM.

I am wondering, will the future Air India focus on only DEL as a hub and end the point to point european non-hub routes? Or will secondary cities in India still have long haul routes? Just wondering what Tata is planning to make Air India profitable again.

That depends on how Tata's plan to align AI and Vistara.

The latter too has their hub in DEL and has connections to EU and has plans for North America. So the two sister airlines would end up competing each other.

Ideally AI should focus outside of DEL too, from other metro and tier 2 cities, making good use of their 788 fleet which can serve this purpose.

With Tata House (Bombay House) based in Mumbai, housing all the Tata companies head offices in the financial capital, I won't be surprised if AI makes BOM the hub again, alongside DEL.


BOM surely due to its space constraints won't be a primary hub. Also AI along with UK are planning to shift to a new address in Gurugram


Won't Navi Mumbai airport ease congestion at BOM?

Also, CCU having no service to Europe is a disgrace. I think AI should launch a CCU-LHR or CCU-FRA Route.
 
yashk
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: Media reports: Air India may order 50 A350

Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:38 pm

Somerandom787 wrote:
killswitch13 wrote:
avier wrote:
That depends on how Tata's plan to align AI and Vistara.

The latter too has their hub in DEL and has connections to EU and has plans for North America. So the two sister airlines would end up competing each other.

Ideally AI should focus outside of DEL too, from other metro and tier 2 cities, making good use of their 788 fleet which can serve this purpose.

With Tata House (Bombay House) based in Mumbai, housing all the Tata companies head offices in the financial capital, I won't be surprised if AI makes BOM the hub again, alongside DEL.


BOM surely due to its space constraints won't be a primary hub. Also AI along with UK are planning to shift to a new address in Gurugram


Won't Navi Mumbai airport ease congestion at BOM?

Also, CCU having no service to Europe is a disgrace. I think AI should launch a CCU-LHR or CCU-FRA Route.


Maybe if CCU had more business traffic or premium VFR, airlines would be queuing up to fly there! CCU having no service to Europe is a disgrace to CCU itself and not on any airline :)

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