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cirrusdragoon
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Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:46 pm

The CTA announces starting September 8, 2022, Airlines in Canada will have to provide refunds or alternative flights to passengers whose trips are cancelled or delayed by at least three hours for reasons outside the control of the carriers. If an airline cannot rebook passengers within 48 hours of their original departure time, it will be required to provide at the passenger’s choice, a refund or rebooking, regardless of the type of ticket they purchased”, said France Pégeot, chair and CEO of the Canadian Transportation Agency.

The regulations announced on Wednesday by the Canadian Transportation Agency, or CTA, are a response to the aviation industry’s collapse early in the pandemic, when thousands of flights were cancelled and customers were unable to get back their money.

The new rules, are amendments to the Air Passenger Protection Regulations and are not retroactive.

I welcome this for the public, now I wonder does this apply to all airlines big and small?
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:43 am

I wonder how "reasons outside the control of the carriers" is defined.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:17 am

Great-massive delays caused by public sector and quasi-public workers and the airlines have to pay?

Maybe the border and security staff should pay something too?
 
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Aresxerexade
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:44 am

Time to play The Weakest Link - Canadian Airline edition.
 
stratable
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:16 am

This is really nothing too exciting, and more in line with existing European regulations. Good for consumers, too, and really something any sophisticated business should be capable of providing.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:21 am

stratable wrote:
This is really nothing too exciting, and more in line with existing European regulations. Good for consumers, too, and really something any sophisticated business should be capable of providing.


100% well said!
 
Acey
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:38 am

Aresxerexade wrote:
Time to play The Weakest Link - Canadian Airline edition.

Flair's YYC operation is doomed. Regular 6+ hour delays but somehow it's still WestJet everyone wants to be mad at.
 
777luver
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:25 am

Wow, just wow. If CBSA or CATSA or an Airport Authority is to blame, like the mess going on right now, the airline has to pay? What the F$&@ is this
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:47 am

777luver wrote:
Wow, just wow. If CBSA or CATSA or an Airport Authority is to blame, like the mess going on right now, the airline has to pay? What the F$&@ is this


It certainly takes away any incentive to improve conditions if the true cause is never found to be financially responsible.

So airlines re-jig schedules back to the pathetic level of capability of the airports. Supply/demand. Fares rise, fewer people travel and airports get to pretend they are doing a good job. Wow, is right.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:01 pm

Acey wrote:
Flair's YYC operation is doomed. Regular 6+ hour delays but somehow it's still WestJet everyone wants to be mad at.


The G&M guy who speaks to WS VPs regularly has shed some light on this:

“The new rules align with the policy Air Canada adopted last year, said company spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick.

Under pressure from the government early in 2021, Air Canada and some other airlines agreed to change their policies and offer refunds rather than credits for flights cancelled in the pandemic. Ottawa made the refunds a requirement for any government aid to the airlines, which were largely grounded for long stretches. WestJet Airlines, however, did not accept a bailout and declined to give refunds to passengers who cancelled their own flights.

On Wednesday, WestJet’s vice-president of government relations, Andrew Gibbons, said the airline is “disappointed” that the new rule unfairly makes it the “sole provider of reimbursement” for delays it cannot control.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... ellations/

Maybe it’s AC that dunnit :P.

Jokes aside, not sure or changes much though. I think in that WS 3 day delay case (where the guy drove his family to SK), WS did refund the unused segment of the ticket. So… what’s changing? Are they going to be required to provide food and accommodation too for those 48 hours (isn’t clear to me)? Or are they worried about short timeframe travellers cancelling their trips up front (which takes the pressure off them)?

In any event, this rule change doesn’t mean anything till the current surge in traffic dies down - probably on the understanding that the current problems will go away by then. Not to minimize the current problem - having experienced them multiple times, it’s fair to say things are a real mess right now.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:17 pm

I wonder what is going to happen this winter , winter weather in central/atlantic Canada leads to many delays and cancellations.
 
casperCA
Posts: 189
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:20 pm

Acey wrote:
Aresxerexade wrote:
Time to play The Weakest Link - Canadian Airline edition.

Flair's YYC operation is doomed. Regular 6+ hour delays but somehow it's still WestJet everyone wants to be mad at.


Exactly. WS and AC should view this as a positive. It forces the ULCC to come up to the standards we expect from all airlines. The behavior or Swoop, Flair etc. has been unreasonable and needs to improve. This is a first step.
 
casperCA
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:38 pm

Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:22 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
I wonder what is going to happen this winter , winter weather in central/atlantic Canada leads to many delays and cancellations.


The airlines need to sign interline agreement and front line staff need to be empowered to rebook passengers where capacity is available.
 
9252fly
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:24 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
I wonder what is going to happen this winter , winter weather in central/atlantic Canada leads to many delays and cancellations.


WS reducing their operations in Central and Atlantic Canada in 2023 should shield them from many of those weather delays.
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:40 pm

casperCA wrote:
Exactly. WS and AC should view this as a positive. It forces the ULCC to come up to the standards we expect from all airlines. The behavior or Swoop, Flair etc. has been unreasonable and needs to improve. This is a first step.



Swoop is owned and operated by West Jet. Why should West Jet be concerned about their own subsidiary (from a competition standpoint)?
 
alo2yyz
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:53 am

Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:18 am

The predictions of doom and the gnashing of teeth at non-airline actors on this thread. :shock:

This is similar to EU and US rules (if not slightly more industry-friendly) and those air transport markets aren't exactly withering on the vine, y'all.
 
casperCA
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:38 pm

Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:44 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
casperCA wrote:
Exactly. WS and AC should view this as a positive. It forces the ULCC to come up to the standards we expect from all airlines. The behavior or Swoop, Flair etc. has been unreasonable and needs to improve. This is a first step.



Swoop is owned and operated by West Jet. Why should West Jet be concerned about their own subsidiary (from a competition standpoint)?


Obviously WestJet should be concerned if Swoop is putting downward pressure on fares at WestJet. That is likely the reason Swoop has generally avoided any significant operations in the Calgary, Toronto and Vancouver main airports. Their route network is designed to avoid direct competition. They do have some indirect competition.
 
Dominion301
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:57 am

casperCA wrote:
LockheedBBD wrote:
casperCA wrote:
Exactly. WS and AC should view this as a positive. It forces the ULCC to come up to the standards we expect from all airlines. The behavior or Swoop, Flair etc. has been unreasonable and needs to improve. This is a first step.



Swoop is owned and operated by West Jet. Why should West Jet be concerned about their own subsidiary (from a competition standpoint)?


Obviously WestJet should be concerned if Swoop is putting downward pressure on fares at WestJet. That is likely the reason Swoop has generally avoided any significant operations in the Calgary, Toronto and Vancouver main airports. Their route network is designed to avoid direct competition. They do have some indirect competition.


Swoop are at YYZ and WS are competing with themselves nonstop on several routes, including non-YYZ routes, but yes WO aren’t at the YYC and YVR sacred cows.
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Canadian Transportation Agency amends APPR

Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:38 am

The US has long required airlines to issue refunds if a flight is cancelled and it is not a big deal. IIRC, AC was fined for not doing this for US-issued tickets by US authorities.

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