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piedmontf284000
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United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:10 pm

United pilots got a 14.5% salary increase (in three increments) for the two year contract plus 8 weeks of maternity leave. Not bad. Kind of sets a new standard for the industry. One down four to go.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/24/united- ... tract.html
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:30 pm

14.5% over 2 years doesn't even keep up with inflation, what a joke. All this is at this point is, the MEC approved making it a TA. Membership would still get to vote yes/no.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:38 pm

Asking for a friend, what is median total compensation for mainline capt and FO these days.. 300 and 200? Clearly the high end has moved above 300 and is aiming for 500. Asking because there are many types of compensation in these bargaining situations, retirement payments, profit sharing etc.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:50 pm

Its a T/A that must be approved by members

Here is detail summary

Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWBZOO7X0AI ... ame=medium
 
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24Whiskey
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:13 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
14.5% over 2 years doesn't even keep up with inflation, what a joke. All this is at this point is, the MEC approved making it a TA. Membership would still get to vote yes/no.


The CRJ-550 weight increase alone warrants a no vote. So much for no scope changes…
 
ScorpioMC3
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:31 pm

The title needs to be changed as it is misleading. The MEC and company reached a Tentative Agreement, which requires a vote by the pilot group before it is ratified.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:56 pm

24Whiskey wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
14.5% over 2 years doesn't even keep up with inflation, what a joke. All this is at this point is, the MEC approved making it a TA. Membership would still get to vote yes/no.


The CRJ-550 weight increase alone warrants a no vote. So much for no scope changes…


And the fact that its only a 2 year deal, would be another no vote.
 
LAXSTEW
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:02 pm

Anyone know if they retained Positive Space for commuting?
 
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24Whiskey
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:11 pm

LAXSTEW wrote:
Anyone know if they retained Positive Space for commuting?


Nope. They’ll get:

- A parking stipend increase from 35 to $60/month.
- Every new plane from now on has to have two pilot jumpseats installed - if available.
- A no-bump clause on the CRJ-550 jumpseat in response to the allowed MTOW increase.

Not exactly Earth shattering. The company would likely order two jumpseats anyways. I don’t think there’s that many commuters who depend on GoJet for work either.
 
ScorpioMC3
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:24 pm

LAXSTEW wrote:
Anyone know if they retained Positive Space for commuting?


It was never in their contract. The company can authorize it on a case by case basis (usually when IRROPS are expected at their bases).
 
av8tiongeek
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:32 pm

It's a 2-year agreement and I'm already hearing
HELL NO.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:24 pm

24Whiskey wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
14.5% over 2 years doesn't even keep up with inflation, what a joke. All this is at this point is, the MEC approved making it a TA. Membership would still get to vote yes/no.


The CRJ-550 weight increase alone warrants a no vote. So much for no scope changes…


Oh for goodness sake. For those of us in markets that 50 - 76 seat jets are the only viable option, what do you propose as the 50 seat ERJ 145's and CRJ200's age out to provide service? The caps are still there.

I am generally behind the pilots on almost all issues until they take a knife and want to continue to make more cities lose air service. I'm really shocked that with the wage increases on the regional side that mainline United is not ready just to take over all of these EMB 175 series and CRJ550 series and be done with it.

Just don't forget us small city folks who pay double the airfare to support that 14.5% increase is all we are asking.
 
orlandocfi
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:51 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
14.5% over 2 years doesn't even keep up with inflation, what a joke. All this is at this point is, the MEC approved making it a TA. Membership would still get to vote yes/no.


The CRJ-550 weight increase alone warrants a no vote. So much for no scope changes…


Oh for goodness sake. For those of us in markets that 50 - 76 seat jets are the only viable option, what do you propose as the 50 seat ERJ 145's and CRJ200's age out to provide service? The caps are still there.

I am generally behind the pilots on almost all issues until they take a knife and want to continue to make more cities lose air service. I'm really shocked that with the wage increases on the regional side that mainline United is not ready just to take over all of these EMB 175 series and CRJ550 series and be done with it.

Just don't forget us small city folks who pay double the airfare to support that 14.5% increase is all we are asking.


The unfortunate fact of the matter is small cities that cannot support a large RJ or small mainline narrowbody will lose service. It has already started and will continue into the foreseeable future regardless of the outcome of pilot contract negotiations at any airline.
 
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24Whiskey
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:55 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
The CRJ-550 weight increase alone warrants a no vote. So much for no scope changes…


I'm really shocked that with the wage increases on the regional side that mainline United is not ready just to take over all of these EMB 175 series and CRJ550 series and be done with it.


I agree. I don’t want small city air service to be affected.

I just think they shouldn’t be flown with planes that say Express, Connection or Eagle on the side anymore. Make a reasonable rate that allows for seniority progression at the mainline carrier for both the pilots and flight attendants.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:37 pm

It would be a shame for United to rid of small-town service. They should hold the course and see through the investment made in their CRJ550 aircraft. These aircraft are supposedly less condense and have some kind of First Class experience; A true product differentiator as Delta and AA curtail service in small markets and decrease their regional aircraft arsenal. Perhaps the future direction of United's regional aircraft ambitions will in time be reflected in the curriculum content of their new academy for pilots. I would imagine curriculum would graduate into regional aircraft flying as I think United will guarantee interviews with United Express upon graduation.
Last edited by TYWoolman on Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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UPlog
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Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:39 pm

Seems like a pragmatic agreement that provides benefits for both sides.

The two-year term provides a bridge to negotiate something more ambitious.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:00 pm

UPlog wrote:
Seems like a pragmatic agreement that provides benefits for both sides.

The two-year term provides a bridge to negotiate something more ambitious.



Agreed. At least build a bridge. Lots can happen. United has a lot of momentum going and many many new NB aircraft on the way. Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered.
 
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jaybird
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Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:47 pm

Why is a 2-year agreement bad? Is that out-of-the-norm for a pilot contract? I'm asking for clarity because I don't know what the norm is. Thanks ..
 
CairnterriAIR
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:27 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
14.5% over 2 years doesn't even keep up with inflation, what a joke. All this is at this point is, the MEC approved making it a TA. Membership would still get to vote yes/no.


I think pilots do pretty well. You want to see who’s salaries are not keeping up with inflation? Ask anybody in customer service, health care, retail, teaching….
 
panam330
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:48 pm

CairnterriAIR wrote:
You want to see who’s salaries are not keeping up with inflation? Ask anybody in customer service, health care, retail, teaching….

Anybody below C-suite level at almost any company doing any job right now is poorer than they were 6 months ago. Very, very few peoples' salaries are keeping up with this inflation, but pilots have a LOT of bargaining power right now, and they absolutely deserve to try.

Never take the first offer. The pot will be sweetened when they slap it down, which I expect will be the case.
 
dfwking
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:24 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Its a T/A that must be approved by members

Here is detail summary

Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWBZOO7X0AI ... ame=medium



The last bullet on instructor and check pilot pay is huge. Without that, they probably won’t be able to fly all those new airplanes they have ordered.
 
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Web500sjc
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Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:26 pm

jaybird wrote:
Why is a 2-year agreement bad? Is that out-of-the-norm for a pilot contract? I'm asking for clarity because I don't know what the norm is. Thanks ..



I’m working off a bar chart, so the dates might not be exact, but the time frame of the contract length is pretty close. Most pilot contracts also have an “early opener clause” so that the parties can commit to negotiate the next contract earlier than amendable date, so most of the properties have start negotiations 12-3 months prior to the amendable date.

The current Pilot contract effective dates and amendable dates

AA: effective JAN-2015- Amendable JAN-2020 (5 years) -CH11+ AA/HP/US Merger Contract
DL: effective DEC-2016- Amendable JAN-2020 (3 years)
UA: effective JAN-2013- Amendable FEB-2019 (6 years) - CO/UA merger contract
WN: effective OCT-2012- Amendable OCT-2020 (8 years) - FL/WN merger contract
AS: effective JAN-2017- Amendable MAR-2020, (3.25 years) - AS/VX Merger contract
HA: effective MAR-2017- Amendable MAR- 2022 (5 years)
B6: effective JUN-2018- Amendable JUN 2022 (4 years) - initial CBA
F9: effective JAN-2019- Amendable JAN-2024 (5 years)
NK effective Feb 2018- Amendable JAN-2023. (5 years)


In the previous cylce, a few contracts ended up around the “3 year mark”, while most center around 5 years. So a 2 year contract is a very short contract based on the previous cycles.
 
zuckie13
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Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:10 pm

Thing is, maybe the short term is a good thing right now.

(1) It's unknown where this inflation is really going. Better to have two years with a decent increase (show me other industries where workers can get a 14.5% increase over 18 months) rather than lock something in longer term that may be insufficient. I'll get 4% if I'm lucky, and probably will be less.

(2) Leaves open room for quicker renegotiation when they see what's in some of the other ones currently under negotiation.
 
zuckie13
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:14 pm

24Whiskey wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
The CRJ-550 weight increase alone warrants a no vote. So much for no scope changes…


I'm really shocked that with the wage increases on the regional side that mainline United is not ready just to take over all of these EMB 175 series and CRJ550 series and be done with it.


I agree. I don’t want small city air service to be affected.

I just think they shouldn’t be flown with planes that say Express, Connection or Eagle on the side anymore. Make a reasonable rate that allows for seniority progression at the mainline carrier for both the pilots and flight attendants.


The question is - can you get the airlines to move away from looking at the profitability of each flight/route as opposed to the network as a whole. Right now they are loathe to pay the crew more on the 50/76 seat planes because the revenue from those won't pay for more. Would take a fundamental change in how airlines do their finance so they can take a cut of the money made on wide-bodies flying to Europe to pay the crew flying a 50 seater from Smallcity, USA to a hub.
 
strangeplanes
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Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:22 pm

Can technology replace the 2nd pilot in <50 seaters?
 
strangeplanes
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:26 pm

zuckie13 wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:

I'm really shocked that with the wage increases on the regional side that mainline United is not ready just to take over all of these EMB 175 series and CRJ550 series and be done with it.


I agree. I don’t want small city air service to be affected.

I just think they shouldn’t be flown with planes that say Express, Connection or Eagle on the side anymore. Make a reasonable rate that allows for seniority progression at the mainline carrier for both the pilots and flight attendants.


The question is - can you get the airlines to move away from looking at the profitability of each flight/route as opposed to the network as a whole. Right now they are loathe to pay the crew more on the 50/76 seat planes because the revenue from those won't pay for more. Would take a fundamental change in how airlines do their finance so they can take a cut of the money made on wide-bodies flying to Europe to pay the crew flying a 50 seater from Smallcity, USA to a hub.


Revenue management teams look at the whole picture.......
 
capejet
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:42 pm

24Whiskey wrote:
LAXSTEW wrote:
Anyone know if they retained Positive Space for commuting?


Nope. They’ll get:

- A parking stipend increase from 35 to $60/month.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't pilots, flight attendants and airport agents get free parking at airports?
 
Cardude2
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Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:06 am

strangeplanes wrote:
Can technology replace the 2nd pilot in <50 seaters?


soon https://theaircurrent.com/technology/fe ... airliners/
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:14 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Asking for a friend, what is median total compensation for mainline capt and FO these days.. 300 and 200? Clearly the high end has moved above 300 and is aiming for 500. Asking because there are many types of compensation in these bargaining situations, retirement payments, profit sharing etc.


Captains: 400-500k including 16% into retirement
F/Os: 300-350 plus the 16%

Generally max out the tax deferred limit annually, that’s around 53k
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:15 am

Cardude2 wrote:
strangeplanes wrote:
Can technology replace the 2nd pilot in <50 seaters?


soon https://theaircurrent.com/technology/fe ... airliners/


Single pilot would require full automation and a pilot-qualified on the ground—not happening in RPT. A second pilot is cheaper than conceivable automation investment. Single pilot equals single point of failure at 10E-5 risk.
 
DreamDriver
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:44 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Asking because there are many types of compensation in these bargaining situations, retirement payments, profit sharing etc.


That's true, and unfortunately few were explored here. Not much of what you mentioned changes. But, United gets concessions all over the place for very little in return. It works out to a 9% pay gain over what will be a nearly decade long cycle. 2019, +4 years to get here, 2 year contract, plus four years to get to a new contract at that point. It's so bad its almost laughable. So, send it back, and do what Delta did with their contract a few years ago. Recall the JV squad of "negotiators", and bring in a new squad, get closer to what is desired. Absolutely nothing to lose....
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:48 am

DreamDriver wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Asking because there are many types of compensation in these bargaining situations, retirement payments, profit sharing etc.


That's true, and unfortunately few were explored here. Not much of what you mentioned changes. But, United gets concessions all over the place for very little in return. It works out to a 9% pay gain over what will be a nearly decade long cycle. 2019, +4 years to get here, 2 year contract, plus four years to get to a new contract at that point. It's so bad its almost laughable. So, send it back, and do what Delta did with their contract a few years ago. Recall the JV squad of "negotiators", and bring in a new squad, get closer to what is desired. Absolutely nothing to lose....


Personally, I think the MEC and NC sent it to vote, just to simply send a message to United that it's time to get serious in negotiations.
 
strfyr51
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:04 am

zuckie13 wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:

I'm really shocked that with the wage increases on the regional side that mainline United is not ready just to take over all of these EMB 175 series and CRJ550 series and be done with it.


I agree. I don’t want small city air service to be affected.

I just think they shouldn’t be flown with planes that say Express, Connection or Eagle on the side anymore. Make a reasonable rate that allows for seniority progression at the mainline carrier for both the pilots and flight attendants.


The question is - can you get the airlines to move away from looking at the profitability of each flight/route as opposed to the network as a whole. Right now they are loathe to pay the crew more on the 50/76 seat planes because the revenue from those won't pay for more. Would take a fundamental change in how airlines do their finance so they can take a cut of the money made on wide-bodies flying to Europe to pay the crew flying a 50 seater from Smallcity, USA to a hub.

Each flight and route ARE part of the network just like each frame is part of a building, You wouldn't want a frame to be weak would you? Then why not have each route at least support it's investment to MAKE said route?? Or did I miss your reasoning??
 
Atrisk
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:27 am

Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:12 am

The rate is very misleading as it doesn't include the 3 years prior without a raise 2019-2022. So in reality it's 14.5% over 5 years plus a few additional years on the end that will undoubtedly not include raises because management will once again drag their feet under the "railway labor act".

Personally, I see it failing in flames!
 
USAirKid
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:48 am

strfyr51 wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:

I agree. I don’t want small city air service to be affected.

I just think they shouldn’t be flown with planes that say Express, Connection or Eagle on the side anymore. Make a reasonable rate that allows for seniority progression at the mainline carrier for both the pilots and flight attendants.


The question is - can you get the airlines to move away from looking at the profitability of each flight/route as opposed to the network as a whole. Right now they are loathe to pay the crew more on the 50/76 seat planes because the revenue from those won't pay for more. Would take a fundamental change in how airlines do their finance so they can take a cut of the money made on wide-bodies flying to Europe to pay the crew flying a 50 seater from Smallcity, USA to a hub.

Each flight and route ARE part of the network just like each frame is part of a building, You wouldn't want a frame to be weak would you? Then why not have each route at least support it's investment to MAKE said route?? Or did I miss your reasoning??


We’ve seen airlines kill hubs by making each spike support itself.

To continue the building metaphor, that cross brace might not be strong on its own… but it makes the main support it’s bracing stronger than it was on its own.

Yes those 76 seaters and 50 seaters could diminish mainline flights, but they could also support mainline flights. Both the union and the company have economics and analysts that have poured over issues like this.
 
Jetport
Posts: 366
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Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:26 am

24Whiskey wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
14.5% over 2 years doesn't even keep up with inflation, what a joke. All this is at this point is, the MEC approved making it a TA. Membership would still get to vote yes/no.


The CRJ-550 weight increase alone warrants a no vote. So much for no scope changes…


What is the CRJ-550 weight increase, I don't see it in the post or link?
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:37 am

Jetport wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
14.5% over 2 years doesn't even keep up with inflation, what a joke. All this is at this point is, the MEC approved making it a TA. Membership would still get to vote yes/no.


The CRJ-550 weight increase alone warrants a no vote. So much for no scope changes…


What is the CRJ-550 weight increase, I don't see it in the post or link?

Allow a CRJ 550 variant with a maximum weight of 69,750 (from 65,000)
o UA pilots cannot be denied jumpseat on the higher max weight CRJ 550 variant due to weight/balance
o The CRJ 550 variant range limited to 900 miles (ensures new added weight not used to extend range)
o CRJ 550 variant counts towards 50-seat RJ limits
 
Velocirapture
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:33 am

Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:42 am

Jetport wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
14.5% over 2 years doesn't even keep up with inflation, what a joke. All this is at this point is, the MEC approved making it a TA. Membership would still get to vote yes/no.


The CRJ-550 weight increase alone warrants a no vote. So much for no scope changes…


What is the CRJ-550 weight increase, I don't see it in the post or link?


The CRJ-550 weight increase is about 4,000 pounds.

The 14.5% wage increase in two years is misleading, to say the least as there hasn't been a raise since 2019 and a 5% raise was already part of the COVID related Letter of Agreement. That 5% required certain profit gates and would happen with or without this contract. So it's really a 9.5% raise over two years - something that doesn't seem to keep up with inflation. So three and a half years of negotiations for a 2 year contract???

Medical plans under this proposal are more expensive and the reserve rules are still very broken.

Just my guess, but I see this TA failing. That would be the first contract failure of my career. To me, this TA is rather underwhelming.
 
USAirKid
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Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:59 am

I'm curious if people who earn as much as pilots are really fully experiencing that inflation number.

I was curious and found this interesting article from the Minneapolis Fed that discusses the widely varied pain of inflation.

In our real world of shoppers, savers, and workers, however, the aggregate inflation rates captured by CPI and PCE apply to everybody…and to nobody. Which of us, after all, is the “aggregate” American? It turns out your inflation and mine might be vastly different at the same moment.


And another passage:

The most regressive tax?
Inflation is generally thought to impose a greater burden on people with lower wealth and incomes, leading some to declare it “the most regressive tax” (including, with no intended irony, a tweet in late 2021 from the world’s richest person at the time, Elon Musk).

Surveying Americans in late 2021, Gallup found low-income households much more likely than higher-income ones to cite financial hardship from inflation (Figure 2). Nearly a third described it as a “severe” hardship “that affects your ability to maintain your current standard of living.”

Households with more money have more options to preserve that money’s value in the face of inflation. “They have access to financial markets,” said Minneapolis Fed Senior Research Economist Juan Pablo Nicolini. “They can have assets that pay interest. At the bottom of the income distribution, some people don’t even have bank accounts—they work on cash. These are the people who are hit the most.”

Research has also found lower-income households face greater inflation when shopping. Sam Schulhofer-Wohl, director of financial policy and outreach at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, analyzed the everyday spending of 50,000 U.S. households between 2003 and 2014 in a paper with University of Chicago economist (and Institute advisor) Greg Kaplan.

“Maybe you used to buy Yogurt A, and now you buy Yogurt B because Yogurt B is cheaper. But if you’re a lower-income family … the only place for you to go is not to have any yogurt.”

They found households with annual incomes below $20,000 experienced a median inflation rate 0.6 percentage points higher than households making more than $100,000. During the low-inflation period the economists studied, this means inflation was roughly one-third higher for the low-income families.


I'll let the UA pilots decide on their contract, but its a bit of a weird comparison looking at an annualized monthly inflation rate then raises should be based off of that.
 
zuckie13
Posts: 583
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:09 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:

I agree. I don’t want small city air service to be affected.

I just think they shouldn’t be flown with planes that say Express, Connection or Eagle on the side anymore. Make a reasonable rate that allows for seniority progression at the mainline carrier for both the pilots and flight attendants.


The question is - can you get the airlines to move away from looking at the profitability of each flight/route as opposed to the network as a whole. Right now they are loathe to pay the crew more on the 50/76 seat planes because the revenue from those won't pay for more. Would take a fundamental change in how airlines do their finance so they can take a cut of the money made on wide-bodies flying to Europe to pay the crew flying a 50 seater from Smallcity, USA to a hub.

Each flight and route ARE part of the network just like each frame is part of a building, You wouldn't want a frame to be weak would you? Then why not have each route at least support it's investment to MAKE said route?? Or did I miss your reasoning??


The person I was responding to is proposing bumping up rates for the pilots on those flights - basically not treating regionals differently anymore. That would cause a big cos jump on those - one that I think might make those flights unprofitable on their own.
 
bigb
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:00 am

24Whiskey wrote:
LAXSTEW wrote:
Anyone know if they retained Positive Space for commuting?


Nope. They’ll get:

- A parking stipend increase from 35 to $60/month.
- Every new plane from now on has to have two pilot jumpseats installed - if available.
- A no-bump clause on the CRJ-550 jumpseat in response to the allowed MTOW increase.

Not exactly Earth shattering. The company would likely order two jumpseats anyways. I don’t think there’s that many commuters who depend on GoJet for work either.


I would likely be a commuter that has to depends on GoJet. In the winter time, UA tends to use them in and out of my market in the winter time unless it’s going to ORD or DEN (single daily). IAH is all MESA. EWR, ORD, IAD alternates YX and GoJet in the winter time with mainline metal sprinkled in.

TA should be and hopefully will be voted down…
 
bigb
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:03 am

capejet wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
LAXSTEW wrote:
Anyone know if they retained Positive Space for commuting?


Nope. They’ll get:

- A parking stipend increase from 35 to $60/month.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't pilots, flight attendants and airport agents get free parking at airports?


No….
 
User avatar
FlySail2015
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:59 am

Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:01 am

bigb wrote:
capejet wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:


Nope. They’ll get:

- A parking stipend increase from 35 to $60/month.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't pilots, flight attendants and airport agents get free parking at airports?


No….


Well.. yes. We get either free parking IN BASE, or if you're a commuter, you can opt for using the parking stipend to get a parking pass for your local airport you'd commute of in lieu of the base parking. But not both.
 
DreamDriver
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:30 am

Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:33 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
DreamDriver wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Asking because there are many types of compensation in these bargaining situations, retirement payments, profit sharing etc.


That's true, and unfortunately few were explored here. Not much of what you mentioned changes. But, United gets concessions all over the place for very little in return. It works out to a 9% pay gain over what will be a nearly decade long cycle. 2019, +4 years to get here, 2 year contract, plus four years to get to a new contract at that point. It's so bad its almost laughable. So, send it back, and do what Delta did with their contract a few years ago. Recall the JV squad of "negotiators", and bring in a new squad, get closer to what is desired. Absolutely nothing to lose....


Personally, I think the MEC and NC sent it to vote, just to simply send a message to United that it's time to get serious in negotiations.


Interesting concept. It’s so bad I actually thought the same thing, but why go through with all that and run the risk of it passing? 50.1% is all it takes. Seems like a lot of wasted time so maybe the negotiators went the easy route and thus missed the mark. Opinions I’m hearing across fleets and age groups is that it is massively underwhelming considering our ceo just said the market will show a hockey stick type of recovery. ………./ Pilots at other airlines are equally horrified as they are up next and are hoping for a strong contract at UA.
 
Jetport
Posts: 366
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:23 pm

Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:00 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
Jetport wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:

The CRJ-550 weight increase alone warrants a no vote. So much for no scope changes…


What is the CRJ-550 weight increase, I don't see it in the post or link?

Allow a CRJ 550 variant with a maximum weight of 69,750 (from 65,000)
o UA pilots cannot be denied jumpseat on the higher max weight CRJ 550 variant due to weight/balance
o The CRJ 550 variant range limited to 900 miles (ensures new added weight not used to extend range)
o CRJ 550 variant counts towards 50-seat RJ limits


Thanks for the information. I assume the MTOW increase will essentially solve all weight problems with the CRJ-550 considering the 900 mile limit on flying, am I correct?
 
Velocirapture
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:33 am

Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:36 am

Jetport wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
Jetport wrote:


What is the CRJ-550 weight increase, I don't see it in the post or link?

Allow a CRJ 550 variant with a maximum weight of 69,750 (from 65,000)
o UA pilots cannot be denied jumpseat on the higher max weight CRJ 550 variant due to weight/balance
o The CRJ 550 variant range limited to 900 miles (ensures new added weight not used to extend range)
o CRJ 550 variant counts towards 50-seat RJ limits


Thanks for the information. I assume the MTOW increase will essentially solve all weight problems with the CRJ-550 considering the 900 mile limit on flying, am I correct?


That seems likely. But I'm stunned at the concessions within the Tentative Agreement. I haven't finished reading it, but it looks like I'll be voting against this proposal.
 
User avatar
24Whiskey
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:05 am

Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:21 am

Didn’t UPA put out a video on scope when the contract first became amendable stating that all flying should be in-house?

Now the spin is that the 550 weight increase will be a win for commuters. How many commuters are solely reliant on a 550? Is it even in the double digits?
 
orlandocfi
Posts: 281
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:53 am

Re: United pilots union approves New contract

Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:16 pm

DreamDriver wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
DreamDriver wrote:

That's true, and unfortunately few were explored here. Not much of what you mentioned changes. But, United gets concessions all over the place for very little in return. It works out to a 9% pay gain over what will be a nearly decade long cycle. 2019, +4 years to get here, 2 year contract, plus four years to get to a new contract at that point. It's so bad its almost laughable. So, send it back, and do what Delta did with their contract a few years ago. Recall the JV squad of "negotiators", and bring in a new squad, get closer to what is desired. Absolutely nothing to lose....



Personally, I think the MEC and NC sent it to vote, just to simply send a message to United that it's time to get serious in negotiations.


Interesting concept. It’s so bad I actually thought the same thing, but why go through with all that and run the risk of it passing? 50.1% is all it takes. Seems like a lot of wasted time so maybe the negotiators went the easy route and thus missed the mark. Opinions I’m hearing across fleets and age groups is that it is massively underwhelming considering our ceo just said the market will show a hockey stick type of recovery. ………./ Pilots at other airlines are equally horrified as they are up next and are hoping for a strong contract at UA.


Yes, everyone else in contract negotiations right now needs this voted down. Other than some token gains, it doesn’t raise the bar. In the words of Leslie Nielsen, “good luck…we’re all counting on you!”
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 26515
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:41 am

TA vote has been delayed to allow the union and company to reengage and make further improvements.
 
panam330
Posts: 2448
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: United reaches Tentative Agreement on pilot contract

Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:35 am

24Whiskey wrote:
How many commuters are solely reliant on a 550? Is it even in the double digits?

You'd be quite surprised at how many. That said, it's not nearly enough to swing this TA into a yes vote. It's not good enough.

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