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cloudboy
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:38 pm

Domestic carrier contracting with a foreign carrier

Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:16 pm

Could one of the US domestic airlines contract with a foreign airline for them to provide aircraft and crew to operate a flight on their behalf? For instance, could United contract with Lufthansa for Lufhansa to operate a flight completely within the US? The flight would be sold only under UA flight numbers, not as a LH flight.
 
WanderingAVGeek
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Re: Domestic carrier contracting with a foreign carrier

Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:31 pm

I believe that would be a wet lease, UA would wet lease from Lufthansa, and Lufthansa takes care of the cabin/crew etc. Since it would be a UA flight number and a domestic route, I don't see why not.
 
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Polot
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Re: Domestic carrier contracting with a foreign carrier

Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:32 pm

Domestically? No, only US airlines can provide interstate air transportation.

See section (d) under 380.10: https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... %20380.pdf

If it was allowed you would have seen it abused by foreign airlines setting up virtual airlines in the US wet-leasing/chartering their foreign parent company’s capacity.

cloudboy wrote:
The flight would be sold only under UA flight numbers, not as a LH flight.

It is still a LH flight operated under LH’s air certificate, no matter who is selling the tickets.
 
MO11
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Re: Domestic carrier contracting with a foreign carrier

Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:29 pm

Part 380 is for Public Charters, which this is not. Cabotage is forbidden under 49 CFR 41703.

In the OP example, although the flight would be operated under Lufthansa's German and FAA Part 129 certificates, it would still operate under United's DOT operating authority. Lufthansa has no operating authority to provide domestic US service.

And of course, this would be a total blowout of the United scope clause.
 
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ADent
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:11 pm

Re: Domestic carrier contracting with a foreign carrier

Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:45 pm

cloudboy wrote:
Could one of the US domestic airlines contract with a foreign airline for them to provide aircraft and crew to operate a flight on their behalf?

Yes. Seems like Icelandair was flying international flights (USA - Mexico) for Apple Charters.
For instance, could United contract with Lufthansa for Lufhansa to operate a flight completely within the US?
No.

Over at viewtopic.php?t=447935 there is discussion on flying the Concorde on domestic US legs - they physically changed the registration.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1853
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Domestic carrier contracting with a foreign carrier

Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:20 pm

ADent wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
Could one of the US domestic airlines contract with a foreign airline for them to provide aircraft and crew to operate a flight on their behalf?

Yes. Seems like Icelandair was flying international flights (USA - Mexico) for Apple Charters.
For instance, could United contract with Lufthansa for Lufhansa to operate a flight completely within the US?
No.

Over at viewtopic.php?t=447935 there is discussion on flying the Concorde on domestic US legs - they physically changed the registration.


Icelandair is flying charters South Florida to Cuba now also.
 
MO11
Posts: 2135
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Domestic carrier contracting with a foreign carrier

Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:32 pm

ADent wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
Could one of the US domestic airlines contract with a foreign airline for them to provide aircraft and crew to operate a flight on their behalf?

Yes. Seems like Icelandair was flying international flights (USA - Mexico) for Apple Charters.


That's international. Smartwings operates for iAero on Vacation Express charters between the US and the Mexico/Caribbean every winter.



ADent wrote:
Over at viewtopic.php?t=447935 there is discussion on flying the Concorde on domestic US legs - they physically changed the registration.


That was an aircraft interchange. Braniff operated the airplane between Dallas and Washington-Dulles.

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