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ContinentalEWR
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:57 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
IAD-AMS pulled from 7/6/2022 to 7/31/2022


Poor IAD. It seems like when something needs cutting they are the first to see it.

It has nothing to do with IAD, and everything to do with AMS.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/amsterd ... r-numbers/

United serves AMS from EWR, IAD, ORD, IAH, and SFO. Trimming IAD for a few weeks to comply with capacity restrictions makes the most logical sense, because that traffic can either be routed through EWR or reaccommodated via IAD-BRU. It would be a lot more disruptive by cutting another hub and trying to funnel those connections elsewhere. IAD-AMS is typically a 788 anyway, and their market share to AMS is usually pretty evenly split with KLM.


It's fascinating how much capacity UA has historically had at AMS given that it has no connectivity on the AMS end, though obviously plenty from all the US hubs it flies there from. it quite an impressive operation.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:06 pm

STT757 wrote:
Question, why is air service to Saipan so much less now than years prior. Even prior to the pandemic air service to Saipan was miniscule compared to the days in the '90s when Continental was flying nonstop to Taipei, Tokyo, Osaka, Fukuoka, Nagoya, Manila, Hong Kong, Seoul etc..


Since 1970s, CNMI provided CO subsidy as it chased tourism which by the 1980s was doing good.

CNMI economic fortunes faded by the mid 90s as Japan saw its economy sag and once large industries like garment/manufacturing factories on Saipan closed. Also, the fact that the USD at the time was strong further eroded business and tourism opportunities as the market was not as a competitive option to foreign visitors or business anymore.

At the end of the day CNMI did not have funds to support such otherwise loss-making flying, so the flying went away. By 2010 the economy was a basket case, hospitals not payng its workers, state retirement fund declared Ch.11, etc.

Their latest hope for tourism rested on China and Korea, but the pandemic shattered those plans for now.
 
avi8
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:11 pm

Did UA pull LAX-GUA? Tried booking it in September and October and did not appear on the search engine.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:17 pm

avi8 wrote:
Did UA pull LAX-GUA? Tried booking it in September and October and did not appear on the search engine.


Redeye operates 3x weekly - TuThSa between Sep06-Oct29
 
Judge1310
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:19 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
How are the new TATL routes performing? Specifically EWR-TFS, EWR-BGO, EWR-PMI, IAD-AMM, and ORD-MXP, and EWR-PDL doing? I've heard Tenerife and Bergen are performing poorly.

Was on the second FCO-EWR ten days ago and it was packed to the rafters, but Italy always does well in summer and this one is no exception.


Didn't TFS, like, just started a couple of weeks ago? And BGO is just 3X a week that started about a month ago. To be labelled as "performing poorly" when a market hasn't even had time to develop is putting the cart before the horse.
 
grjplanes
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:38 am

Any indication when a decision would be made by US DOT about the remaining slots for South Africa service, between UA's IAD-CPT and Delta's ATL-CPT applications? I'm sure they'd like to get these routes loaded for booking asap and get it started by November at the latest?
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:02 pm

Looks like they also pulled IAD-ACC from 9/5/2022 to 11/27/2022
 
dcajet
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:13 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Looks like they also pulled IAD-ACC from 9/5/2022 to 11/27/2022


Hmmm... wasn´t it a star performer from day one?
 
USAirALB
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:32 pm

dcajet wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Looks like they also pulled IAD-ACC from 9/5/2022 to 11/27/2022


Hmmm... wasn´t it a star performer from day one?

I still see IAD-ACC in the schedule during that period.

It does look like the route drops down to a 3x weekly service on 9/5, and then resumes daily service on 12/1.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:21 am

USAirALB wrote:
dcajet wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Looks like they also pulled IAD-ACC from 9/5/2022 to 11/27/2022


Hmmm... wasn´t it a star performer from day one?

I still see IAD-ACC in the schedule during that period.

It does look like the route drops down to a 3x weekly service on 9/5, and then resumes daily service on 12/1.


My apologies. You're right, I checked Google flights again and it is indeed 3x weekly during that time period and operates on Sunday, Wednesday, Friday ex-IAD. Is the reduction due to aircraft availability or demand?
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:46 am

rjbesikof wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
dcajet wrote:

Hmmm... wasn´t it a star performer from day one?

I still see IAD-ACC in the schedule during that period.

It does look like the route drops down to a 3x weekly service on 9/5, and then resumes daily service on 12/1.


My apologies. You're right, I checked Google flights again and it is indeed 3x weekly during that time period and operates on Sunday, Wednesday, Friday ex-IAD. Is the reduction due to aircraft availability or demand?


Given that Labor Day to Thanksgiving is one of the slowest travel periods of the year, logically it would be demand related.

Unless they intend to rapidly ramp up paining post-summer I can’t see why it would be aircraft related. I guess it could be pilot related, as someone else said the 756 fleet was short, and they probably need to pull back in the fall to create time for vacation, recurrent training, balance hours etc.
 
dcajet
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:57 pm

The Brazilian press is reporting that United will take over TAP's MRO at GIG, which is being shut down. This used to be VARIG's MRO until the mid-2000s. Anyone heard this stateside?

https://diariodorio.com/united-airlines ... do-galeao/

https://aeroin.net/united-airlines-deve ... s-abertas/

Lending credence to the rumor is the fact that UA has posted on LinkedIn 2 job openings @GIG

* Manager - International Aircraft Maintenance
* Supervisor Engineer - International Aircraft Maintenance
 
3D101CA
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:28 pm

dcajet wrote:
The Brazilian press is reporting that United will take over TAP's MRO at GIG, which is being shut down. This used to be VARIG's MRO until the mid-2000s. Anyone heard this stateside?

https://diariodorio.com/united-airlines ... do-galeao/

https://aeroin.net/united-airlines-deve ... s-abertas/

Lending credence to the rumor is the fact that UA has posted on LinkedIn 2 job openings @GIG

* Manager - International Aircraft Maintenance
* Supervisor Engineer - International Aircraft Maintenance


United only has one flight a day to GIG from IAH only. Would they also maintain planes from other airlines in that case or have other planes in there fleet fly to GIG for the sole purpose of maintenance?
 
Scarebus34
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:41 pm

3D101CA wrote:
dcajet wrote:
The Brazilian press is reporting that United will take over TAP's MRO at GIG, which is being shut down. This used to be VARIG's MRO until the mid-2000s. Anyone heard this stateside?

https://diariodorio.com/united-airlines ... do-galeao/

https://aeroin.net/united-airlines-deve ... s-abertas/

Lending credence to the rumor is the fact that UA has posted on LinkedIn 2 job openings @GIG

* Manager - International Aircraft Maintenance
* Supervisor Engineer - International Aircraft Maintenance


United only has one flight a day to GIG from IAH only. Would they also maintain planes from other airlines in that case or have other planes in there fleet fly to GIG for the sole purpose of maintenance?


They would just repo planes there for maintenance like they currently do elsewhere.
 
MDC862
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:47 pm

Or perform contract work on other airlines equipment. Lots of business to go around.
 
codc10
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:15 pm

I wonder if UA would step into some of the existing TAP MRO work?
 
airboeingbus
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United Acquiring Used A319's from EasyJet?

Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:21 pm

I was on airfleet.com and noticed that United appear to be aquiring some used A319's which mostly appear to be from EasyJet / U2. Anybody have an idea if and when these are coming and why united are adding more A319's? What cabins are they putting in these?

SN Type Registration Remark
2578 319-111 N3303U To enter in service
2605 319-111 N3304U To enter in service
2631 319-132 N5867U To enter in service
2636 319-111 N3305U To enter in service
2646 319-111 N4306U To enter in service
2655 319-132 N4868U To enter in service
2677 319-111 N5307U To enter in service
2691 319-111 N6308U To enter in service
2715 319-111 N6309U To enter in service
2738 319-132 N4869U To enter in service
2744 319-111 N6311U To enter in service
2754 319-111 N9312U To enter in service
2769 319-111 N3314U To enter in service
2777 319-111 N3315U To enter in service
2779 319-111 N3316U To enter in service
2782 319-111 N5317U To enter in service
2818 319-111 N8320U To enter in service
 
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ADent
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Re: United Acquiring Used A319's from EasyJet?

Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:31 pm

From viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468677&start=150

GmoneyCO wrote:
UA initially purchased the aircraft pre-COVID and most, if not all, were expected to enter service. UA took a page out of Delta's book and was looking to increase capacity through used aircraft. Due to COVID the original plan is understood to have been shelved with the current understanding that the aircraft will be sold to another carrier or parted out.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: United Acquiring Used A319's from EasyJet?

Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:59 pm

I'm not entirely sure the deal was going all that smoothly, even pre-Covid?

I flew on several easyJet A319s back in 2019 that were noted online as being transferred within weeks, or which should already have been transferred. None of the ones I flew on were to my knowledge.
 
DreamDriver
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Re: United Acquiring Used A319's from EasyJet?

Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:30 pm

I believe all the EastJet birds are for parts. Not even sure they have the same engine as UA’s other 319s. Could be wrong, but that’s what I’ve read.
 
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itripreport
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Re: United Acquiring Used A319's from EasyJet?

Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:07 pm

They're all CFM units, while United's are IAE. I do wonder if the 4 overawing exit doors would also cause a minor inconvenience had they gone in for retrofits.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: United Acquiring Used A319's from EasyJet?

Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:57 am

I believe some were sold back to EasyJet...
 
Scarebus34
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:00 am

Since they are hiring mechanics with experience on 767/777 aircraft I wonder if this will eventually replace the work that's currently contracted out and done in Hong Kong or Xiamen.
 
nonrevelite
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Re: United Acquiring Used A319's from EasyJet?

Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:54 am

itripreport wrote:
They're all CFM units, while United's are IAE. I do wonder if the 4 overawing exit doors would also cause a minor inconvenience had they gone in for retrofits.


Why are those issues?

Depending on fleet size, different engine size is irrelevant. UA has a few GE 767-300s from HA; plus the difference in engines between the -300s and -400s.

The extra exit can be easily plugged, essentially deactivating it. UA has done this one some 767-300s and all 737-900s.
 
United1
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Re: United Acquiring Used A319's from EasyJet?

Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:13 am

nonrevelite wrote:
itripreport wrote:
They're all CFM units, while United's are IAE. I do wonder if the 4 overawing exit doors would also cause a minor inconvenience had they gone in for retrofits.


Why are those issues?

Depending on fleet size, different engine size is irrelevant. UA has a few GE 767-300s from HA; plus the difference in engines between the -300s and -400s.

The extra exit can be easily plugged, essentially deactivating it. UA has done this one some 767-300s and all 737-900s.


The exHA 763s are PW powered.

I do agree with you though depending on the size of the fleet having the same engines on all aircraft becomes less important. At one point there was discussion about UA acquiring quite a few more CFM powered A319s but it seems like UA has changed direction and is going to use the CFM powered ships for parts.
 
MO11
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Re: United Acquiring Used A319's from EasyJet?

Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:16 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
I believe some were sold back to EasyJet...


To replace airplanes that were leased from GTLK.
 
Okcflyer
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:25 am

Given the long ground time and schedules, they could reposition/rotate aircraft in and out from GRU & EZE very easily, maybe SLC as well. These are fairly short and cheap repo flights compared to long hauling them.
 
f4f3a
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Re: United Acquiring Used A319's from EasyJet?

Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:48 pm

Easyjet has leased back quite a few at advantages rates to cover until neos get delivered and can replace them . Don't know when the lease now ends on these
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:16 pm

The only issue with rotating aircraft through a GIG maint base would be if the aircraft departure slips or there's a last-minute issue, it could lead to cancellation or forcing the aircraft going into maintenance having to continue revenue service until the slot is confirmed, then rerouting back to the nearby SA airport.

The unknown of exactly when an aircraft is ready after heavy maintenance is why we don't usually see aircraft headed to HKG/XMN swapping out with revenue service at NRT or GUM.

Long ground times are good in that there's more slack if there's a problem. More likely, UA could or would add GIG service to allow routine 12-plus hour access to a couple of aircraft each day. Years ago CO used 12-hour LAX ground times to keep its 2 DC10-30s operating daily between LAX and AKL/SYD.

12-hour maint could be in addition to heavy maintenance and we know the 763/4 fleet is aging and requires more maint. I doubt UA would ferry non-heavy maintenance
 
dcajet
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:47 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
The only issue with rotating aircraft through a GIG maint base would be if the aircraft departure slips or there's a last-minute issue, it could lead to cancellation or forcing the aircraft going into maintenance having to continue revenue service until the slot is confirmed, then rerouting back to the nearby SA airport.

The unknown of exactly when an aircraft is ready after heavy maintenance is why we don't usually see aircraft headed to HKG/XMN swapping out with revenue service at NRT or GUM.

Long ground times are good in that there's more slack if there's a problem. More likely, UA could or would add GIG service to allow routine 12-plus hour access to a couple of aircraft each day. Years ago CO used 12-hour LAX ground times to keep its 2 DC10-30s operating daily between LAX and AKL/SYD.

12-hour maint could be in addition to heavy maintenance and we know the 763/4 fleet is aging and requires more maint. I doubt UA would ferry non-heavy maintenance


Although a different operation, but isn't this what AA does at its GRU maintenance base, where planes undergo light maintenance between arrivals from and departures back to the USA? I am sure that delays may occur from time to time when planes may not be released in time for their flights.
 
atrude777
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:39 pm

United Airlines will be dropping another city, Texarkana.


TEXARKANA, Texas (KSLA) - Goodbye United Airlines, after reviewing their market demand, they were not making enough to keep up with operating expenses at Texarkana Regional Airport (TXK).

United Airlines is ending its services at TXK, effective September 6. There were simply not enough bookings and like other airlines right now, United Airlines has been struggling to work through the nationwide pilot and crew shortages. The shortages have become worse in 2022.


Source: https://www.ksla.com/2022/07/03/united- ... l-airport/

This was a brand new city and route. United just started the service in February, 4 months ago. A shame to see anytime a closure happens, but not surprised anymore.

Alex
 
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drerx7
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:51 pm

Wasn't it a subsidized route as well
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:11 pm

drerx7 wrote:
Wasn't it a subsidized route as well


Yes it was, no route should be viewed as safe though, even if it has a minimum revenue guarantee.
https://www.ktbs.com/news/texarkana/tex ... 7446d.html

TXK-IAH had a 29% Load Factor in February, and a 27% Load Factor in March.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:40 pm

atrude777 wrote:
United Airlines will be dropping another city, Texarkana.


TEXARKANA, Texas (KSLA) - Goodbye United Airlines, after reviewing their market demand, they were not making enough to keep up with operating expenses at Texarkana Regional Airport (TXK).

United Airlines is ending its services at TXK, effective September 6. There were simply not enough bookings and like other airlines right now, United Airlines has been struggling to work through the nationwide pilot and crew shortages. The shortages have become worse in 2022.


Source: https://www.ksla.com/2022/07/03/united- ... l-airport/

This was a brand new city and route. United just started the service in February, 4 months ago. A shame to see anytime a closure happens, but not surprised anymore.

Alex


No shock here whatsoever.

The Texas route I think they should have kept was ABI. Wish we still had TYR and GRK too. I get cutting CLL. It’s only an hour drive from IAH to there.
 
MDC862
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:06 pm

With an average monthly LF of 28% I am very surprised it lasted this long. Massive cargo might have saved the route, but I guess cheaper to truck.
 
dcajet
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:20 pm

Sources from Brazil now say that while United is still a contender, the sale process of TAP´s MRO base at GIG is still open and bound by an NDA. Furthermore, the sources also state that United's plans need to be detailed and studied, to ensure that it will not become a "luxury garage for the company's planes", dedicated to just cutting parking costs while making small repairs, while other companies have presented projects to transform the site into an world-class MRO, providing services to airlines and employing thousands of people instead of a few hundred."

https://aeroin.net/united-acelera-mas-n ... -definido/
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:06 pm

atrude777 wrote:
United Airlines will be dropping another city, Texarkana.


TEXARKANA, Texas (KSLA) - Goodbye United Airlines, after reviewing their market demand, they were not making enough to keep up with operating expenses at Texarkana Regional Airport (TXK).

United Airlines is ending its services at TXK, effective September 6. There were simply not enough bookings and like other airlines right now, United Airlines has been struggling to work through the nationwide pilot and crew shortages. The shortages have become worse in 2022.


Source: https://www.ksla.com/2022/07/03/united- ... l-airport/

This was a brand new city and route. United just started the service in February, 4 months ago. A shame to see anytime a closure happens, but not surprised anymore.

Alex


FLG appears completely gone as well.
 
atrude777
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:48 am

Midwestindy wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
United Airlines will be dropping another city, Texarkana.


TEXARKANA, Texas (KSLA) - Goodbye United Airlines, after reviewing their market demand, they were not making enough to keep up with operating expenses at Texarkana Regional Airport (TXK).

United Airlines is ending its services at TXK, effective September 6. There were simply not enough bookings and like other airlines right now, United Airlines has been struggling to work through the nationwide pilot and crew shortages. The shortages have become worse in 2022.


Source: https://www.ksla.com/2022/07/03/united- ... l-airport/

This was a brand new city and route. United just started the service in February, 4 months ago. A shame to see anytime a closure happens, but not surprised anymore.

Alex


FLG appears completely gone as well.


Looks like it ends October 29th? Nothing after Sunday, October 30th…

Alex
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:25 am

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the route planning department. Cut too much and your hub starts to be affected. Cut too little and you can't support the flying with what Commutair can give you reliably and miss the opportunity to move the aircraft to a more profitable route.

It is amazing to see American and to some extent Delta bully United around the deep south. American can run 6 70 seaters a day from a site to their DFW hub and United will throw 1, 2, or 3 if you are lucky 50 seat RJ's to Houston and see if it sticks.

But this also appears to be the next round of consolidation. "Virtual consolidation" if you will where one of the 3 carriers has to leave a market and it helps the other carrier(s) remain viable. All 3 legacy network carriers will have to cede spokes until the pilot/plane/fuel issues work themselves out I suppose?
 
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drerx7
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:46 am

The DFW/IAH comparison isn't exactly apples to apples. AA has a more robust role for DFW, therefore they have enough connection traffic to support and O&D. AA doesn't have a third Midwest hub to route through. That 250 mile difference is very significant between Dallas and Houston as well for connection traffic. Dallas imo is the southernmost Midwestern city...in many many aspects. So it's always been more well positioned to capture that flow traffic than us here in Houston. At United, they have IAH, DEN, and ORD, plus they have 2 west coast hubs and 2 east coast hubs book ending them. So no need to funnel traffic via the southernmost option.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:20 pm

drerx7 wrote:
The DFW/IAH comparison isn't exactly apples to apples. AA has a more robust role for DFW, therefore they have enough connection traffic to support and O&D. AA doesn't have a third Midwest hub to route through. That 250 mile difference is very significant between Dallas and Houston as well for connection traffic. Dallas imo is the southernmost Midwestern city...in many many aspects. So it's always been more well positioned to capture that flow traffic than us here in Houston. At United, they have IAH, DEN, and ORD, plus they have 2 west coast hubs and 2 east coast hubs book ending them. So no need to funnel traffic via the southernmost option.


Don't want to presume your age, but I have been around long enough to fly on Texas International and Braniff out of DFW. I saw Delta build and go away. I remember the debacle of how Delta scheduled connections/draw down into 50 seat RJ's to feed with 3 hour connection times into their DFW hub and it only helped it disintegrate faster. Which I saw again with the NW hub in Memphis back in the day (pre-Delta).

I'm simply saying that trimming flights, no matter the hub, must be a tough decision because each one denigrates the feed into the hub (and often high fares) that invariably affects other flights. The 25% load factor would not be sustainable for long anywhere these days and I get that too. But also if your competition is able to throw multiple flights on bigger planes and fill them, you might want to re-evaluate your strategy. Connecting to the wrong hub? Not enough capacity? etc. We are seeing the same thing just from different perspectives.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:54 am

One thing that has surprised me a bit is that IAH-PIB/MEI are still around. They announced its termination but its still here.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:54 am

sldispatcher wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
The DFW/IAH comparison isn't exactly apples to apples. AA has a more robust role for DFW, therefore they have enough connection traffic to support and O&D. AA doesn't have a third Midwest hub to route through. That 250 mile difference is very significant between Dallas and Houston as well for connection traffic. Dallas imo is the southernmost Midwestern city...in many many aspects. So it's always been more well positioned to capture that flow traffic than us here in Houston. At United, they have IAH, DEN, and ORD, plus they have 2 west coast hubs and 2 east coast hubs book ending them. So no need to funnel traffic via the southernmost option.


Don't want to presume your age, but I have been around long enough to fly on Texas International and Braniff out of DFW. I saw Delta build and go away. I remember the debacle of how Delta scheduled connections/draw down into 50 seat RJ's to feed with 3 hour connection times into their DFW hub and it only helped it disintegrate faster. Which I saw again with the NW hub in Memphis back in the day (pre-Delta).

I'm simply saying that trimming flights, no matter the hub, must be a tough decision because each one denigrates the feed into the hub (and often high fares) that invariably affects other flights. The 25% load factor would not be sustainable for long anywhere these days and I get that too. But also if your competition is able to throw multiple flights on bigger planes and fill them, you might want to re-evaluate your strategy. Connecting to the wrong hub? Not enough capacity? etc. We are seeing the same thing just from different perspectives.

I think the point was that DFW is a connection airport, like DEN or ATL, but IAH is just that tiny bit too far out of the way for some people. Could UA make it into a DFW? Maybe, but they have DEN and ORD, so they never need to make it equivalent to DFW. And as long as they're scaling IAH, there may be some small markets that they don't have the critical mass to support, even if AA can from DFW.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6913
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:26 am

cosyr wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
The DFW/IAH comparison isn't exactly apples to apples. AA has a more robust role for DFW, therefore they have enough connection traffic to support and O&D. AA doesn't have a third Midwest hub to route through. That 250 mile difference is very significant between Dallas and Houston as well for connection traffic. Dallas imo is the southernmost Midwestern city...in many many aspects. So it's always been more well positioned to capture that flow traffic than us here in Houston. At United, they have IAH, DEN, and ORD, plus they have 2 west coast hubs and 2 east coast hubs book ending them. So no need to funnel traffic via the southernmost option.


Don't want to presume your age, but I have been around long enough to fly on Texas International and Braniff out of DFW. I saw Delta build and go away. I remember the debacle of how Delta scheduled connections/draw down into 50 seat RJ's to feed with 3 hour connection times into their DFW hub and it only helped it disintegrate faster. Which I saw again with the NW hub in Memphis back in the day (pre-Delta).

I'm simply saying that trimming flights, no matter the hub, must be a tough decision because each one denigrates the feed into the hub (and often high fares) that invariably affects other flights. The 25% load factor would not be sustainable for long anywhere these days and I get that too. But also if your competition is able to throw multiple flights on bigger planes and fill them, you might want to re-evaluate your strategy. Connecting to the wrong hub? Not enough capacity? etc. We are seeing the same thing just from different perspectives.

I think the point was that DFW is a connection airport, like DEN or ATL, but IAH is just that tiny bit too far out of the way for some people. Could UA make it into a DFW? Maybe, but they have DEN and ORD, so they never need to make it equivalent to DFW. And as long as they're scaling IAH, there may be some small markets that they don't have the critical mass to support, even if AA can from DFW.


The whole point of UA's hub strategy seems to that they arent trying to replicate DFW or ATL. Instead, theyve created four hubs with similar stature: DEN, ORD, IAH, and EWR. Its different from AA and DL but not wrong.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:37 pm

cosyr wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
The DFW/IAH comparison isn't exactly apples to apples. AA has a more robust role for DFW, therefore they have enough connection traffic to support and O&D. AA doesn't have a third Midwest hub to route through. That 250 mile difference is very significant between Dallas and Houston as well for connection traffic. Dallas imo is the southernmost Midwestern city...in many many aspects. So it's always been more well positioned to capture that flow traffic than us here in Houston. At United, they have IAH, DEN, and ORD, plus they have 2 west coast hubs and 2 east coast hubs book ending them. So no need to funnel traffic via the southernmost option.


Don't want to presume your age, but I have been around long enough to fly on Texas International and Braniff out of DFW. I saw Delta build and go away. I remember the debacle of how Delta scheduled connections/draw down into 50 seat RJ's to feed with 3 hour connection times into their DFW hub and it only helped it disintegrate faster. Which I saw again with the NW hub in Memphis back in the day (pre-Delta).

I'm simply saying that trimming flights, no matter the hub, must be a tough decision because each one denigrates the feed into the hub (and often high fares) that invariably affects other flights. The 25% load factor would not be sustainable for long anywhere these days and I get that too. But also if your competition is able to throw multiple flights on bigger planes and fill them, you might want to re-evaluate your strategy. Connecting to the wrong hub? Not enough capacity? etc. We are seeing the same thing just from different perspectives.

I think the point was that DFW is a connection airport, like DEN or ATL, but IAH is just that tiny bit too far out of the way for some people. Could UA make it into a DFW? Maybe, but they have DEN and ORD, so they never need to make it equivalent to DFW. And as long as they're scaling IAH, there may be some small markets that they don't have the critical mass to support, even if AA can from DFW.


I think too many folks on here give the general flying public too much credit for geographical awareness or preference on connecting itineraries. The vast majority of customers chase price. Whether connecting through DFW, DAL, IAH, HOU, most customers do a search for price and overall transit time. Of course, there are those that care about the brand.
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4517
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:48 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
cosyr wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:

Don't want to presume your age, but I have been around long enough to fly on Texas International and Braniff out of DFW. I saw Delta build and go away. I remember the debacle of how Delta scheduled connections/draw down into 50 seat RJ's to feed with 3 hour connection times into their DFW hub and it only helped it disintegrate faster. Which I saw again with the NW hub in Memphis back in the day (pre-Delta).

I'm simply saying that trimming flights, no matter the hub, must be a tough decision because each one denigrates the feed into the hub (and often high fares) that invariably affects other flights. The 25% load factor would not be sustainable for long anywhere these days and I get that too. But also if your competition is able to throw multiple flights on bigger planes and fill them, you might want to re-evaluate your strategy. Connecting to the wrong hub? Not enough capacity? etc. We are seeing the same thing just from different perspectives.

I think the point was that DFW is a connection airport, like DEN or ATL, but IAH is just that tiny bit too far out of the way for some people. Could UA make it into a DFW? Maybe, but they have DEN and ORD, so they never need to make it equivalent to DFW. And as long as they're scaling IAH, there may be some small markets that they don't have the critical mass to support, even if AA can from DFW.


I think too many folks on here give the general flying public too much credit for geographical awareness or preference on connecting itineraries. The vast majority of customers chase price. Whether connecting through DFW, DAL, IAH, HOU, most customers do a search for price and overall transit time. Of course, there are those that care about the brand.

Well...id tend to agree... however, by that rational some of these hubs would not exist. Also...SLCDISPATCHER I get what you are saying with much respect given.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1818
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:16 am

Judge1310 wrote:
cosyr wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:

Don't want to presume your age, but I have been around long enough to fly on Texas International and Braniff out of DFW. I saw Delta build and go away. I remember the debacle of how Delta scheduled connections/draw down into 50 seat RJ's to feed with 3 hour connection times into their DFW hub and it only helped it disintegrate faster. Which I saw again with the NW hub in Memphis back in the day (pre-Delta).

I'm simply saying that trimming flights, no matter the hub, must be a tough decision because each one denigrates the feed into the hub (and often high fares) that invariably affects other flights. The 25% load factor would not be sustainable for long anywhere these days and I get that too. But also if your competition is able to throw multiple flights on bigger planes and fill them, you might want to re-evaluate your strategy. Connecting to the wrong hub? Not enough capacity? etc. We are seeing the same thing just from different perspectives.

I think the point was that DFW is a connection airport, like DEN or ATL, but IAH is just that tiny bit too far out of the way for some people. Could UA make it into a DFW? Maybe, but they have DEN and ORD, so they never need to make it equivalent to DFW. And as long as they're scaling IAH, there may be some small markets that they don't have the critical mass to support, even if AA can from DFW.


I think too many folks on here give the general flying public too much credit for geographical awareness or preference on connecting itineraries. The vast majority of customers chase price. Whether connecting through DFW, DAL, IAH, HOU, most customers do a search for price and overall transit time. Of course, there are those that care about the brand.

And UA isn't winning anyone over on price right now. Everything I search, UA is not only more expensive, it's sometimes double AA or DL.
 
Velocirapture
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:33 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:51 am

cosyr wrote:
And UA isn't winning anyone over on price right now. Everything I search, UA is not only more expensive, it's sometimes double AA or DL.


Given the heavy loads, high prices don't seem to have been detrimental and will hopefully, result in good financial results announced in about 2 weeks
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:52 am

cosyr wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I think the point was that DFW is a connection airport, like DEN or ATL, but IAH is just that tiny bit too far out of the way for some people. Could UA make it into a DFW? Maybe, but they have DEN and ORD, so they never need to make it equivalent to DFW. And as long as they're scaling IAH, there may be some small markets that they don't have the critical mass to support, even if AA can from DFW.


I think too many folks on here give the general flying public too much credit for geographical awareness or preference on connecting itineraries. The vast majority of customers chase price. Whether connecting through DFW, DAL, IAH, HOU, most customers do a search for price and overall transit time. Of course, there are those that care about the brand.

And UA isn't winning anyone over on price right now. Everything I search, UA is not only more expensive, it's sometimes double AA or DL.

Sounds like UA is doing well on the routes you search.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:59 am

Aliqiout wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

I think too many folks on here give the general flying public too much credit for geographical awareness or preference on connecting itineraries. The vast majority of customers chase price. Whether connecting through DFW, DAL, IAH, HOU, most customers do a search for price and overall transit time. Of course, there are those that care about the brand.

And UA isn't winning anyone over on price right now. Everything I search, UA is not only more expensive, it's sometimes double AA or DL.

Sounds like UA is doing well on the routes you search.


Thank you and 100%.

I have said it time and time again: no airline can be everything to everyone. If the Texarkana market wants to put all of its eggs in the AA basket, great for them. UA is not hurting without them. DL (DLC) used to fly in there many years ago when DL had a base/hub(let?) at DFW. But DL is no longer there and I don't think DL is hurting over that.

So, unlike certain posters who think that all dots on the map should be connected, if the TXK market wasn't receptive to a new entrant, then so be it. Allow itself zero competition and zero pricing power. What ends up happening is that the market will end up having spillage down I-30 to DFW/DAL (it's not *that* far of a drive to many locals), or shoot on down to SHV and have the big 3 airlines (albeit their express entities) available for use.

Que sera, sera and on to the next market opportunity. :)

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