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RyanairGuru
Posts: 9258
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:08 pm

Boof wrote:
One school of thought on the “new era” is red tails and white Virgin on the tails similar to VS.


Allegedly they rejected a copy-cat of Virgin America, in turn similar to Virgin Atlantic, as from a distance it would be largely indistinguishable from Qantas, at least to the average punter. The all white was considered to be more recognisable and unique. It would be odd to go back on that.
 
a320fan
Posts: 1111
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:12 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
Boof wrote:
One school of thought on the “new era” is red tails and white Virgin on the tails similar to VS.


Allegedly they rejected a copy-cat of Virgin America, in turn similar to Virgin Atlantic, as from a distance it would be largely indistinguishable from Qantas, at least to the average punter. The all white was considered to be more recognisable and unique. It would be odd to go back on that.

Yes first thought on red tail is that it’d look just like Qantas.
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2590
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:58 pm

Hey guys,
SWZ to be Bonza’s third hub???
… with a big pre-state-election splashy announcement prior to March 2023?
… with generous NSW government incentives?
Just my prediction lol.
Take care,
Bunumuring
 
Obzerva
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:22 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Obzerva wrote:

Yep, Flight Centre, was originally scheduled for SIN, but was relocated to LAS.



Thanks. Have QF run them before? NZ ran flight centre charters BNE-LAS on 744s a decade ago, possibly on 772s once the 744s retired?


QF operated the HNL charter, which IIRC was 2017.

EY operated SXF in 2018.

Where was 2019? It’s completely escaped me.

NZ did do LAS last time, along with CUN. CX operated MFM.


I think 2019 might have been LAS as well, with the cancelled 2020 one in BNE.

It does bounce between HNL, LAS and SIN a bit with a few others thrown in. There was meant to be a South African one, but that got relocated.
 
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Goodbye
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:27 pm

smi0006 wrote:
For an LCC I really like it, I like their logo. Let’s see how their operation goes


Graphic designer here: I think it's awful! I'm not sure why only 2 fingers have fingernails, it just looks overly complicated to me and not immediately obvious. I like that they've chosen purple to stand out, but the thumbs-up icon could do with some refinement.

Opinion from other designer-types: https://www.underconsideration.com/bran ... esigns.php
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:04 am

EK413 wrote:
I'll put it down to SYD curfew! It'll depart MEL for DOH at 1:30am, well after 11pm SYD curfew!

I’d say the curfew is irrelevant considering the 2nd SYD daily was a morning arrival and afternoon departure.
Most likely due the A380 hanging around on the DOH-SYD. [/quote]

This is entirely my point. They had little option at SYD in terms of the slots. MEL doesn't have a curfew or the slot challenge that SYD has, resulting in QR retiming the flight to a schedule that isn't possible at SYD. If this wasn't consequential then they'd have used a morning arrival in MEL too.

If it was simply capacity planning, they could quite have easily had SYD and SYD-CBR both B77W and MEL A380.
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:11 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
evanb wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

Interesting that they are not pushing Sydney back to double daily! The CBR tag is just the ‘cost of doing business’ under the current ASA, but I’m really intrigued why they are picking MEL over SYD this time around.


I'll put it down to SYD curfew! It'll depart MEL for DOH at 1:30am, well after 11pm SYD curfew!


The schedule in the article linked above says it arrives CBR 0150 departs 1430, departs MEL 1715. Perhaps their other MEL flight departs MEL at 0130? Surprised they park at CBR for so long, how are they crewing that?


Yeah, got it the wrong way round, the two flights are:

DOH-MEL departs DOH 01:30
DOH-MEL departs DOH 19:35 to 21:30 depending on day of the week (CBR flight)

MEL-DOH departs MEL 17:15 (CBR flight)
MEL-DOH departs MEL 22:20

Based on the long ground time in CBR, they are definitely not doing a crew shuttle between MEL-CBR-MEL and crew will layover in CBR.
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:19 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Considering VA isn't willing to re-enter Joint-Ventures anytime soon, any (unlikely) partnership across the Tasman will likely be just a simple codeshare and FF deal, like most of their partnerships post-Bankruptcy exit.

There should also be no problems with the ACCC or the CCNZ as it'll be a simple codeshare/FF deal as opposed to applying as a JV. That's how the QF/NZ domestic codeshare partnership got off the ground, plus QF/NZ informed the respective bodies that they are still competing on the TransTasman sectors.

VA of course will want to negotiate their cut of the fare in a codeshare partnership, which is probably peanuts to the partner and at the same time puts most of the operating costs on the partner (as opposed to JVs where they share 50/50 of the operating costs).


NZ broke up with VA and chose to enter a codeshare partnership with QF before bankruptcy - this was in 2018. I'm not sure what has changed that would cause NZ to change course and switch back to VA.

ACCC and/or CCNZ are unlikely to allow NZ to have the same codesharing partnership with QF and VA. Notably, VA objected to the NZ-QF codeshare on the grounds that it would reduce competition and increase market concentration. So unless NZ dump QF, then it's almost impossible for VA to get approval for a codeshare with NZ. And I just don't see any reason why NZ would dump QF. Even if VA were offering a JV it might still be less preferable given VA's now smaller domestic network.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:18 am

evanb wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Considering VA isn't willing to re-enter Joint-Ventures anytime soon, any (unlikely) partnership across the Tasman will likely be just a simple codeshare and FF deal, like most of their partnerships post-Bankruptcy exit.

There should also be no problems with the ACCC or the CCNZ as it'll be a simple codeshare/FF deal as opposed to applying as a JV. That's how the QF/NZ domestic codeshare partnership got off the ground, plus QF/NZ informed the respective bodies that they are still competing on the TransTasman sectors.

VA of course will want to negotiate their cut of the fare in a codeshare partnership, which is probably peanuts to the partner and at the same time puts most of the operating costs on the partner (as opposed to JVs where they share 50/50 of the operating costs).


NZ broke up with VA and chose to enter a codeshare partnership with QF before bankruptcy - this was in 2018. I'm not sure what has changed that would cause NZ to change course and switch back to VA.

ACCC and/or CCNZ are unlikely to allow NZ to have the same codesharing partnership with QF and VA. Notably, VA objected to the NZ-QF codeshare on the grounds that it would reduce competition and increase market concentration. So unless NZ dump QF, then it's almost impossible for VA to get approval for a codeshare with NZ. And I just don't see any reason why NZ would dump QF. Even if VA were offering a JV it might still be less preferable given VA's now smaller domestic network.

What has changed is the CEOs of both airlines have changed. It was well known that John Borghetti and Chris Luxon (currently NZ Opposition Leader and favoured to be elected NZ PM next year) fell out big time with both letting their substantial egos to get in the way.

I don't know whether NZ wants out of the QF partnership but, NZ is an airline that relies on Australian passengers transitting in AKL to make its international operation viable. QF has no interest in ever providing any support to NZ in this regard. VA has no long-haul international aspirations; they would likely happily codeshare and support NZ's international services ex AKL.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:24 am

tullamarine wrote:
evanb wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Considering VA isn't willing to re-enter Joint-Ventures anytime soon, any (unlikely) partnership across the Tasman will likely be just a simple codeshare and FF deal, like most of their partnerships post-Bankruptcy exit.

There should also be no problems with the ACCC or the CCNZ as it'll be a simple codeshare/FF deal as opposed to applying as a JV. That's how the QF/NZ domestic codeshare partnership got off the ground, plus QF/NZ informed the respective bodies that they are still competing on the TransTasman sectors.

VA of course will want to negotiate their cut of the fare in a codeshare partnership, which is probably peanuts to the partner and at the same time puts most of the operating costs on the partner (as opposed to JVs where they share 50/50 of the operating costs).


NZ broke up with VA and chose to enter a codeshare partnership with QF before bankruptcy - this was in 2018. I'm not sure what has changed that would cause NZ to change course and switch back to VA.

ACCC and/or CCNZ are unlikely to allow NZ to have the same codesharing partnership with QF and VA. Notably, VA objected to the NZ-QF codeshare on the grounds that it would reduce competition and increase market concentration. So unless NZ dump QF, then it's almost impossible for VA to get approval for a codeshare with NZ. And I just don't see any reason why NZ would dump QF. Even if VA were offering a JV it might still be less preferable given VA's now smaller domestic network.

What has changed is the CEOs of both airlines have changed. It was well known that John Borghetti and Chris Luxon (currently NZ Opposition Leader and favoured to be elected NZ PM next year) fell out big time with both letting their substantial egos to get in the way.

I don't know whether NZ wants out of the QF partnership but, NZ is an airline that relies on Australian passengers transitting in AKL to make its international operation viable. QF has no interest in ever providing any support to NZ in this regard. VA has no long-haul international aspirations; they would likely happily codeshare and support NZ's international services ex AKL.


As per Bain's previous quotes, there would have to be "something in it for them". Similar to when they replaced DL with UA and EY with QR as their primary partners respectively. DL decided to leave VFF whilst EY decided to stay on as a secondary partner.

NZ would IMO, probably look for some considerable compensation from Bain if they wish to dump the QF codeshare partnership in favour of a similar codeshare with VA, which is unlikely to occur anytime soon, and even if NZ and VA were to replace the existing NZ/QF partnership it would not likely be the old large Joint-Venture, with NZ carrying 100% of the operating costs if a NZ/VA codeshare were to happen in the future.
 
TG788
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:45 am

Hi, the Perth airport rail line is tangential to the discussion, but a long time coming. The ABC has picked up on the previously announced 2022 opening date passing quietly.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 9258
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:12 am

tullamarine wrote:
evanb wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Considering VA isn't willing to re-enter Joint-Ventures anytime soon, any (unlikely) partnership across the Tasman will likely be just a simple codeshare and FF deal, like most of their partnerships post-Bankruptcy exit.

There should also be no problems with the ACCC or the CCNZ as it'll be a simple codeshare/FF deal as opposed to applying as a JV. That's how the QF/NZ domestic codeshare partnership got off the ground, plus QF/NZ informed the respective bodies that they are still competing on the TransTasman sectors.

VA of course will want to negotiate their cut of the fare in a codeshare partnership, which is probably peanuts to the partner and at the same time puts most of the operating costs on the partner (as opposed to JVs where they share 50/50 of the operating costs).


NZ broke up with VA and chose to enter a codeshare partnership with QF before bankruptcy - this was in 2018. I'm not sure what has changed that would cause NZ to change course and switch back to VA.

ACCC and/or CCNZ are unlikely to allow NZ to have the same codesharing partnership with QF and VA. Notably, VA objected to the NZ-QF codeshare on the grounds that it would reduce competition and increase market concentration. So unless NZ dump QF, then it's almost impossible for VA to get approval for a codeshare with NZ. And I just don't see any reason why NZ would dump QF. Even if VA were offering a JV it might still be less preferable given VA's now smaller domestic network.

What has changed is the CEOs of both airlines have changed. It was well known that John Borghetti and Chris Luxon (currently NZ Opposition Leader and favoured to be elected NZ PM next year) fell out big time with both letting their substantial egos to get in the way.

I don't know whether NZ wants out of the QF partnership but, NZ is an airline that relies on Australian passengers transitting in AKL to make its international operation viable. QF has no interest in ever providing any support to NZ in this regard. VA has no long-haul international aspirations; they would likely happily codeshare and support NZ's international services ex AKL.


While they rely on the Australian market to support their broader network, Air New Zealand are strong enough to be entirely self-fulfilling in terms of their Tasman operations. Qantas is as well. The bilateral codeshare allowing NZ to offer connections to CBR and ROK, and QF to DUD and PMR, is nice to have but neither would be materially weaker without it. SYD/MEL/BNE for NZ and AKL/WLG/CHC for QF touches the overwhelming majority of potential customers.

While the relationship between Luxon and Borghetti was undeniably toxic, NZ publicly stated in 2019 that the QF codeshare agreement was more profitable than the previous VA JBA. Reading between the lines, it seems likely that NZ were effectively subsidising VA’s loss making international network by sharing revenue and costs on the Tasman routes.

I therefore struggle to see why a VA-NZ partnership suddenly makes sense just because Luxon and Borghetti have moved on. I suppose there is value in the Velocity FF base as a source of passengers, but again NZ have proven themselves to be able to attract Australian passengers without a significant pool of domestic travellers. If the QF partnership is producing acceptable returns, I don’t see an overwhelming need to jump back to VA given what is currently on the table.

To repeat a point SCFlyer has mentioned before, this could hypothetically occur as part of a broader UA-VA-NZ partnership, but that still seems quite far fetched at this point when VA doesn’t serve either Tasman or Pacific routes. UA can extract everything it needs from both NZ and VA singularly without pushing the complexity and added cost of a trilateral JBA.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:18 am

TG788 wrote:
Hi, the Perth airport rail line is tangential to the discussion, but a long time coming. The ABC has picked up on the previously announced 2022 opening date passing quietly.


Is only T1/T2 being connected to the rail network? I haven’t been following this project so am not too sure, and the linked article doesn’t mention it. My understanding is that PAPL want to eventually move Qantas to an expanded T1/T2 precinct (maybe called T3?) and demolish the existing T3/T4.

Edit: The map in the article indirectly answers my question. Presumably the new Redcliffe Station will serve T3/T4, albeit being situated to serve the surrounding residential area. From Google Maps it looks like the station will be about 1.5km from the terminal, so will there be a shuttle bus or something?
 
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:40 am

evanb wrote:
EK413 wrote:
I'll put it down to SYD curfew! It'll depart MEL for DOH at 1:30am, well after 11pm SYD curfew!

I’d say the curfew is irrelevant considering the 2nd SYD daily was a morning arrival and afternoon departure.
Most likely due the A380 hanging around on the DOH-SYD.

This is entirely my point. They had little option at SYD in terms of the slots. MEL doesn't have a curfew or the slot challenge that SYD has, resulting in QR retiming the flight to a schedule that isn't possible at SYD. If this wasn't consequential then they'd have used a morning arrival in MEL too.

If it was simply capacity planning, they could quite have easily had SYD and SYD-CBR both B77W and MEL A380.


I never said SYD curfew was their reason for selecting MEL. I said QR’s 2nd SYD service was AM arrival with a afternoon departure which eliminates SYD curfew as their move from SYD to MEL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
TG788
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:44 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
TG788 wrote:
Hi, the Perth airport rail line is tangential to the discussion, but a long time coming. The ABC has picked up on the previously announced 2022 opening date passing quietly.


Is only T1/T2 being connected to the rail network? I haven’t been following this project so am not too sure, and the linked article doesn’t mention it. My understanding is that PAPL want to eventually move Qantas to an expanded T1/T2 precinct (maybe called T3?) and demolish the existing T3/T4.

Edit: The map in the article indirectly answers my question. Presumably the new Redcliffe Station will serve T3/T4, albeit being situated to serve the surrounding residential area. From Google Maps it looks like the station will be about 1.5km from the terminal, so will there be a shuttle bus or something?


You are correct about T1/T2 having the rail link. The Redcliffe station fact sheet mentions a shuttle bus to serve T3/T4 until the combined terminal is complete and that the station location hasn't been chosen to serve T3/T4. I don't know how progress is going on the combined terminal, so this shuttle bus may be operating for a long time.
 
waoz1
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:40 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
TG788 wrote:
Hi, the Perth airport rail line is tangential to the discussion, but a long time coming. The ABC has picked up on the previously announced 2022 opening date passing quietly.


Is only T1/T2 being connected to the rail network? I haven’t been following this project so am not too sure, and the linked article doesn’t mention it. My understanding is that PAPL want to eventually move Qantas to an expanded T1/T2 precinct (maybe called T3?) and demolish the existing T3/T4.

Edit: The map in the article indirectly answers my question. Presumably the new Redcliffe Station will serve T3/T4, albeit being situated to serve the surrounding residential area. From Google Maps it looks like the station will be about 1.5km from the terminal, so will there be a shuttle bus or something?


T1/T2 station is next to the control tower, with an elevated walkway

T3/T4 station is next to the DFO/Costco and new shopping centre coming soon. However is a short walk to T3/T4
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:05 am

QF11: SYD-LAX Back to A380 on July 28

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ill-return
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:08 am

MEL/SYD - PER and using QFs International F Lounge

QF5: SYD-PER-FCO
QF9: MEL-PER-LHR

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... tic-flight
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:13 am

ET Reviews VAs "Beyond" Lounge at SYD

https://www.executivetraveller.com/revi ... ey-airport

Personally, I'm not fussed on the seating; it looks "old school".

Also, from the article:
"The grass-fed steak sandwich with caramelised onion and pickles."

I assume they mean grass fed beef. Have never fed a sandwich myself. :lol:
 
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bjwonline
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:36 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Virgin Australia launch teases “a new era of flying”

VA's media event that was scheduled for May 27 but cancelled will now be held on Fri 22 July.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... -of-flying


So looks like the "new era of flying" is very much like the current one.... delayed, delayed then cancelled. Well done VA.
 
Toenga
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:57 am

The Air NZ domestic code share with Qantas and the Qantas domestic code share with NZ allows both airlines to offer services from every point on the Qantas Australian domestic network, to every point on the Air NZ New Zealand domestic network. All whilst still keeping their trans Tasman operations completly separate, satisfying competition authorities both sides of the Tasman.

A tie up with VA would be far inferior in domestic Australian reach for Air NZ.
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:26 am

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
SWZ to be Bonza’s third hub???
… with a big pre-state-election splashy announcement prior to March 2023?
… with generous NSW government incentives?
Just my prediction lol.
Take care,
Bunumuring


SWZ would make sense for Bonza, but we're still 3-4+ years away from SWZ opening, and a lot can happen in that time.

Personally, I think SWZ would be a better option for ZL as an alternative rather than compete with QF and VA head on. And thinking/speculating out aloud, SWZ would be an ideal place for them to flog the last use out of the SAABs for seasonal services to OOM and MHU. They could also be potentially creative in using a replacement plane, ATR42/72-600, sub-branded as "Capital Express" from SWZ and MEL to CBR. There is a lot of growth in Western Sydney, and until NSW Trains implements a faster rail service, then maybe this is a practicable option.

Cheers
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:48 am

Toenga wrote:
The Air NZ domestic code share with Qantas and the Qantas domestic code share with NZ allows both airlines to offer services from every point on the Qantas Australian domestic network, to every point on the Air NZ New Zealand domestic network. All whilst still keeping their trans Tasman operations completly separate, satisfying competition authorities both sides of the Tasman.

A tie up with VA would be far inferior in domestic Australian reach for Air NZ.


“Far inferior” is a bit disingenuous as you’re looking at markets like Devonport and Bundaberg before VA’s network becomes inadequate. VA’s domestic network is more than sufficient to serve any international partner, as beyond SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/ADL the likes of DRW, HBA, CBR, CNS, TSV etc. soak up most of the remaining demand. You can probably count on your hands the number of people flying between Barcaldine and New Zealand in an entire year.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:45 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
Toenga wrote:
The Air NZ domestic code share with Qantas and the Qantas domestic code share with NZ allows both airlines to offer services from every point on the Qantas Australian domestic network, to every point on the Air NZ New Zealand domestic network. All whilst still keeping their trans Tasman operations completly separate, satisfying competition authorities both sides of the Tasman.

A tie up with VA would be far inferior in domestic Australian reach for Air NZ.


“Far inferior” is a bit disingenuous as you’re looking at markets like Devonport and Bundaberg before VA’s network becomes inadequate. VA’s domestic network is more than sufficient to serve any international partner, as beyond SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/ADL the likes of DRW, HBA, CBR, CNS, TSV etc. soak up most of the remaining demand. You can probably count on your hands the number of people flying between Barcaldine and New Zealand in an entire year.

Notwithstanding, the NZ CEO publicly stated that the QF arrangement was more profitable than the VA arrangement, so there seems little reason for the carrier to change.
 
NZ516
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:37 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
Toenga wrote:
The Air NZ domestic code share with Qantas and the Qantas domestic code share with NZ allows both airlines to offer services from every point on the Qantas Australian domestic network, to every point on the Air NZ New Zealand domestic network. All whilst still keeping their trans Tasman operations completly separate, satisfying competition authorities both sides of the Tasman.

A tie up with VA would be far inferior in domestic Australian reach for Air NZ.


“Far inferior” is a bit disingenuous as you’re looking at markets like Devonport and Bundaberg before VA’s network becomes inadequate. VA’s domestic network is more than sufficient to serve any international partner, as beyond SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/ADL the likes of DRW, HBA, CBR, CNS, TSV etc. soak up most of the remaining demand. You can probably count on your hands the number of people flying between Barcaldine and New Zealand in an entire year.


It's nearly double as Qantas and Qantas Link serve 60 domestic destinations while Virgin serve 32. So there's more choices for the customer with the QF/NZ partnership including the 20 domestic destinations in NZ.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:19 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Toenga wrote:
The Air NZ domestic code share with Qantas and the Qantas domestic code share with NZ allows both airlines to offer services from every point on the Qantas Australian domestic network, to every point on the Air NZ New Zealand domestic network. All whilst still keeping their trans Tasman operations completly separate, satisfying competition authorities both sides of the Tasman.

A tie up with VA would be far inferior in domestic Australian reach for Air NZ.


“Far inferior” is a bit disingenuous as you’re looking at markets like Devonport and Bundaberg before VA’s network becomes inadequate. VA’s domestic network is more than sufficient to serve any international partner, as beyond SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/ADL the likes of DRW, HBA, CBR, CNS, TSV etc. soak up most of the remaining demand. You can probably count on your hands the number of people flying between Barcaldine and New Zealand in an entire year.

Notwithstanding, the NZ CEO publicly stated that the QF arrangement was more profitable than the VA arrangement, so there seems little reason for the carrier to change.


Oh I totally agree. See my post up-thread, I don’t see any reason for NZ to change back to VA. I just think that Toenga was being hyperbolic, that’s all.
 
PR211
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:41 pm

Perhaps it's about time the government or regulatory bodies stepped in to deal with the absolute chaos caused by the airlines at the moment. Particurly, QF and VA. Most people are reasonable and understand that cancellations, delays and schedule changes happen from time to time.Especially. The issue is the frequency in which these occurrences keep happening and the lack of customer care that supports these changes/cancellations.
My evidence? sure it's anecdotal, but I work for a large airport where the frequency of cancellations, changes and bags going missing daily (QF I'm looking at you) is mind boggling. When passengers arrive...they quite often are made to feel as though it is their fault. That's if they can get any announcement from the airlines when things go pair shape.
Another example was my parents recent QF trip to the US. 8 cancellations and flight changes in the space of 7 weeks. No online options given when flights were cancelled, so each time we had to call through to the call centre. One call was a 7 hour wait....
VA was OK up until recently. We had my aunties 60th planned in Cairns this week and a big family reunion. The day prior...similar situation. VA cancelled my cousins flights from Canberra and gave them no realistic alternative to get there. It was either fly sometime next week, or too bad. As a result, I'm chilling up in Cairns alone at the moment cause the rest of the family didn't think it was worth coming up without my aunty being here.
I understand there are staff shortages but what I can't understand is why airlines keep putting on more flights and announcing more routes when they can't deal with the ones they're flying.
The only positive experience I have had lately is with REX. Flew them from SYD to BNE. Amazing service from check in until the time I disembarked. Left on time. Honestly, REX is putting the other two majors to shame at the moment.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:43 pm

PR211 wrote:
Perhaps it's about time the government or regulatory bodies stepped in to deal with the absolute chaos caused by the airlines at the moment. Particurly, QF and VA. Most people are reasonable and understand that cancellations, delays and schedule changes happen from time to time.Especially. The issue is the frequency in which these occurrences keep happening and the lack of customer care that supports these changes/cancellations.
My evidence? sure it's anecdotal, but I work for a large airport where the frequency of cancellations, changes and bags going missing daily (QF I'm looking at you) is mind boggling. When passengers arrive...they quite often are made to feel as though it is their fault. That's if they can get any announcement from the airlines when things go pair shape.
Another example was my parents recent QF trip to the US. 8 cancellations and flight changes in the space of 7 weeks. No online options given when flights were cancelled, so each time we had to call through to the call centre. One call was a 7 hour wait....
VA was OK up until recently. We had my aunties 60th planned in Cairns this week and a big family reunion. The day prior...similar situation. VA cancelled my cousins flights from Canberra and gave them no realistic alternative to get there. It was either fly sometime next week, or too bad. As a result, I'm chilling up in Cairns alone at the moment cause the rest of the family didn't think it was worth coming up without my aunty being here.
I understand there are staff shortages but what I can't understand is why airlines keep putting on more flights and announcing more routes when they can't deal with the ones they're flying.
The only positive experience I have had lately is with REX. Flew them from SYD to BNE. Amazing service from check in until the time I disembarked. Left on time. Honestly, REX is putting the other two majors to shame at the moment.


It's time to tighten consumer protection laws. The airlines can basically do what they like in this country.
 
Toenga
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:51 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

“Far inferior” is a bit disingenuous as you’re looking at markets like Devonport and Bundaberg before VA’s network becomes inadequate. VA’s domestic network is more than sufficient to serve any international partner, as beyond SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/ADL the likes of DRW, HBA, CBR, CNS, TSV etc. soak up most of the remaining demand. You can probably count on your hands the number of people flying between Barcaldine and New Zealand in an entire year.

Notwithstanding, the NZ CEO publicly stated that the QF arrangement was more profitable than the VA arrangement, so there seems little reason for the carrier to change.


Oh I totally agree. See my post up-thread, I don’t see any reason for NZ to change back to VA. I just think that Toenga was being hyperbolic, that’s all.


To be attractive as a connecting airline the connections need to be same day.
So destination count is not the only measure.
Same day connection availability is related to route frequency. Here Qantas is at a very considerable advantage for provincial Australia.
In NZ unfortunately for us, there is actually no contest with the third tier airlines operating complementary services rather then competing services.

For Qantas the top six NZ destinations not served by Qantas accounted for nearly 4.5 million passengers in 2019.
I am counting the 1 million odd passengers for Dunedin in this number although some Qantas Jetstar transfers may have been viable.

Perhaps 10% of those passengers would fly on beyond Australian international airports, making a domestic tag ons both ends.
 
evanb
Posts: 1201
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:00 am

tullamarine wrote:
What has changed is the CEOs of both airlines have changed. It was well known that John Borghetti and Chris Luxon (currently NZ Opposition Leader and favoured to be elected NZ PM next year) fell out big time with both letting their substantial egos to get in the way.

I don't know whether NZ wants out of the QF partnership but, NZ is an airline that relies on Australian passengers transitting in AKL to make its international operation viable. QF has no interest in ever providing any support to NZ in this regard. VA has no long-haul international aspirations; they would likely happily codeshare and support NZ's international services ex AKL.


Just because the CEOs have changed it doesn't mean that decisions are reversed or that the decisions that NZ made very invariably poor. NZ and QF made their bed. QF allow NZ codesharing on flights that feed NZ's US flights. NZ allow QF to codeshare on flights that feed QF's Asian flights. They have accepted this de facto "support".

I certainly agree that VA have no long-haul aspirations anytime soon and I'm sure that they would have no problem feeding NZ at AKL, but why would that be more profitable or important than feeding those passengers to UA? One could argue that the UA code-share is far more important than a NZ code-share could be in terms of US feed.
 
evanb
Posts: 1201
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:09 am

PR211 wrote:
Perhaps it's about time the government or regulatory bodies stepped in to deal with the absolute chaos caused by the airlines at the moment. Particurly, QF and VA. Most people are reasonable and understand that cancellations, delays and schedule changes happen from time to time.Especially. The issue is the frequency in which these occurrences keep happening and the lack of customer care that supports these changes/cancellations.
My evidence? sure it's anecdotal, but I work for a large airport where the frequency of cancellations, changes and bags going missing daily (QF I'm looking at you) is mind boggling. When passengers arrive...they quite often are made to feel as though it is their fault. That's if they can get any announcement from the airlines when things go pair shape.
Another example was my parents recent QF trip to the US. 8 cancellations and flight changes in the space of 7 weeks. No online options given when flights were cancelled, so each time we had to call through to the call centre. One call was a 7 hour wait....
VA was OK up until recently. We had my aunties 60th planned in Cairns this week and a big family reunion. The day prior...similar situation. VA cancelled my cousins flights from Canberra and gave them no realistic alternative to get there. It was either fly sometime next week, or too bad. As a result, I'm chilling up in Cairns alone at the moment cause the rest of the family didn't think it was worth coming up without my aunty being here.
I understand there are staff shortages but what I can't understand is why airlines keep putting on more flights and announcing more routes when they can't deal with the ones they're flying.
The only positive experience I have had lately is with REX. Flew them from SYD to BNE. Amazing service from check in until the time I disembarked. Left on time. Honestly, REX is putting the other two majors to shame at the moment.


What specifically would you have authorities do? In March and April when demand was really growing rapidly, the airlines, airports and ground handlers were imploring government agencies to increase capacity to speed up processes for registration and clearances of staff so that the companies could hire and bring back more staff. The authorities did next to nothing.

When excessively long wait times for passports for Australians and visas were foreigners were putting pressure on airlines to move passengers to alternative flights that was helping clog up callcentres and mess airlines around in terms of planning and scheduling, government did very little. Albanese government did eventually shift resources to passports, but move resources away from visas to do this making one problem better and another worse. All while government were putting pressure on airlines to reduce/remove change fees in these circumstances.

I'm not trying to absolute the airlines in this all since it's clear that some have far worse than others, but the authorities also shoulder a lot of blame. The challenge is, how do the authorities fix it if they intend to get more involved?
 
openskies88
Posts: 54
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:28 am

evanb wrote:

What specifically would you have authorities do? In March and April when demand was really growing rapidly, the airlines, airports and ground handlers were imploring government agencies to increase capacity to speed up processes for registration and clearances of staff so that the companies could hire and bring back more staff. The authorities did next to nothing.

When excessively long wait times for passports for Australians and visas were foreigners were putting pressure on airlines to move passengers to alternative flights that was helping clog up callcentres and mess airlines around in terms of planning and scheduling, government did very little. Albanese government did eventually shift resources to passports, but move resources away from visas to do this making one problem better and another worse. All while government were putting pressure on airlines to reduce/remove change fees in these circumstances.

I'm not trying to absolute the airlines in this all since it's clear that some have far worse than others, but the authorities also shoulder a lot of blame. The challenge is, how do the authorities fix it if they intend to get more involved?


Authorities can't really do much when commercial aviation jobs and those that are a byproduct of it (i.e. passports and visa offices) are too volatile. Interest is virtually dead.

Sydney Airport as an example is trying to actively recruit 5000 people to bring it back up and running. Domestic travel is now at 85% compared to pre-COVID-19 levels, but the airport only has about 70% of its pre-COVID-19 workforce.

So yes, the airlines do also shoulder the blame in that they are aware of these limitations around staffing and are still pushing for unrealistic schedules and capacity when they should really be trimming it back to be more sustainable in the short term.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:56 am

evanb wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
What has changed is the CEOs of both airlines have changed. It was well known that John Borghetti and Chris Luxon (currently NZ Opposition Leader and favoured to be elected NZ PM next year) fell out big time with both letting their substantial egos to get in the way.

I don't know whether NZ wants out of the QF partnership but, NZ is an airline that relies on Australian passengers transitting in AKL to make its international operation viable. QF has no interest in ever providing any support to NZ in this regard. VA has no long-haul international aspirations; they would likely happily codeshare and support NZ's international services ex AKL.


Just because the CEOs have changed it doesn't mean that decisions are reversed or that the decisions that NZ made very invariably poor. NZ and QF made their bed. QF allow NZ codesharing on flights that feed NZ's US flights. NZ allow QF to codeshare on flights that feed QF's Asian flights. They have accepted this de facto "support".

I certainly agree that VA have no long-haul aspirations anytime soon and I'm sure that they would have no problem feeding NZ at AKL, but why would that be more profitable or important than feeding those passengers to UA? One could argue that the UA code-share is far more important than a NZ code-share could be in terms of US feed.


Also the state support to VA's partners (ie the Queensland Government/Brisbane Airport Corporation) co-funding new services e.g the 3 weekly Queensland to SFO service would also be the icing for the cake, and also puts the responsibility on the service funders (in this case Tourism & Events Queensland on behalf of the State of Queensland) to market the service in an attempt to make those new services viable after a certain contracted period
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:40 am

NTLDaz wrote:
PR211 wrote:
Perhaps it's about time the government or regulatory bodies stepped in to deal with the absolute chaos caused by the airlines at the moment. Particurly, QF and VA. Most people are reasonable and understand that cancellations, delays and schedule changes happen from time to time.Especially. The issue is the frequency in which these occurrences keep happening and the lack of customer care that supports these changes/cancellations.
My evidence? sure it's anecdotal, but I work for a large airport where the frequency of cancellations, changes and bags going missing daily (QF I'm looking at you) is mind boggling. When passengers arrive...they quite often are made to feel as though it is their fault. That's if they can get any announcement from the airlines when things go pair shape.
Another example was my parents recent QF trip to the US. 8 cancellations and flight changes in the space of 7 weeks. No online options given when flights were cancelled, so each time we had to call through to the call centre. One call was a 7 hour wait....
VA was OK up until recently. We had my aunties 60th planned in Cairns this week and a big family reunion. The day prior...similar situation. VA cancelled my cousins flights from Canberra and gave them no realistic alternative to get there. It was either fly sometime next week, or too bad. As a result, I'm chilling up in Cairns alone at the moment cause the rest of the family didn't think it was worth coming up without my aunty being here.
I understand there are staff shortages but what I can't understand is why airlines keep putting on more flights and announcing more routes when they can't deal with the ones they're flying.
The only positive experience I have had lately is with REX. Flew them from SYD to BNE. Amazing service from check in until the time I disembarked. Left on time. Honestly, REX is putting the other two majors to shame at the moment.


It's time to tighten consumer protection laws. The airlines can basically do what they like in this country.


Agreed. VA is rapidly catching up (down?) with QF in terms of abysmal service the last few weeks. So many of my domestic flights have been delayed dor cancelled on both carriers that I started looking up consumer protection laws. Essentially there are none and the ACCC relies on the airlines' own policies, which are of course entirely unhelpful.

Time for a new government to slam the airlines. They keep selling seats they know they can't provide. In terms of "What should the government do?" Introduce the kind of delay and cancellation provisions they have in Europe. Yes it would force airlines to scale back schedules but the flow on would also likely be better working conditions, more staff, re-expanded schedules, greater service quality and confidence in the airline system.

Meanwhile Joyce and Hrdlcka galavant around the festivals and sporting events of Europe. Classy stuff.
 
Tdan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:58 am

PR211 wrote:
Perhaps it's about time the government or regulatory bodies stepped in to deal with the absolute chaos caused by the airlines at the moment. Particurly, QF and VA. Most people are reasonable and understand that cancellations, delays and schedule changes happen from time to time.Especially. The issue is the frequency in which these occurrences keep happening and the lack of customer care that supports these changes/cancellations.
My evidence? sure it's anecdotal, but I work for a large airport where the frequency of cancellations, changes and bags going missing daily (QF I'm looking at you) is mind boggling. When passengers arrive...they quite often are made to feel as though it is their fault. That's if they can get any announcement from the airlines when things go pair shape.
Another example was my parents recent QF trip to the US. 8 cancellations and flight changes in the space of 7 weeks. No online options given when flights were cancelled, so each time we had to call through to the call centre. One call was a 7 hour wait....
VA was OK up until recently. We had my aunties 60th planned in Cairns this week and a big family reunion. The day prior...similar situation. VA cancelled my cousins flights from Canberra and gave them no realistic alternative to get there. It was either fly sometime next week, or too bad. As a result, I'm chilling up in Cairns alone at the moment cause the rest of the family didn't think it was worth coming up without my aunty being here.
I understand there are staff shortages but what I can't understand is why airlines keep putting on more flights and announcing more routes when they can't deal with the ones they're flying.
The only positive experience I have had lately is with REX. Flew them from SYD to BNE. Amazing service from check in until the time I disembarked. Left on time. Honestly, REX is putting the other two majors to shame at the moment.


Australian airports are not immune here and neither is Air Services. Show us evidence of a labour group in the aviation system that is at their full establishment after accounting for increased attrition and elevated sickness and able to fully cope with the massive increase in demand. Perhaps the government should re-regulate Australian airports while we are at it and make the whole system government owned once again. Been there before after all.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:04 am

PR211 wrote:
Perhaps it's about time the government or regulatory bodies stepped in to deal with the absolute chaos caused by the airlines at the moment.


What should the government do.
Ban people from taking sick days?
Require new employees to be thrown into dangerous workplaces with no training?
 
evanb
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Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:52 am

openskies88 wrote:
Authorities can't really do much when commercial aviation jobs and those that are a byproduct of it (i.e. passports and visa offices) are too volatile. Interest is virtually dead.

Sydney Airport as an example is trying to actively recruit 5000 people to bring it back up and running. Domestic travel is now at 85% compared to pre-COVID-19 levels, but the airport only has about 70% of its pre-COVID-19 workforce.

So yes, the airlines do also shoulder the blame in that they are aware of these limitations around staffing and are still pushing for unrealistic schedules and capacity when they should really be trimming it back to be more sustainable in the short term.


And if airlines reduced capacity to have realistic schedules, as you put it, it would results in people complaining that there are no flights available and also complaining that prices (would inevitably) increase. I could imagine the massive outcry, asking for government to act, with pressure on ACCC to act on anti-competitive behaviour of airlines intentionally intentionally reducing supply to profit. I think some people may have unrealistic expectations. Nobody is blameless in this situation, but it's also an extraordinary time! There is an assumption that nobody is trying to fix it. Airlines, airports, ground handlers and governments are working hard to fix things, but there is an unreasonable expectation that Joyce or Hrdlicka or the PM himself can click their fingers.
 
kimshep
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:11 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Obzerva wrote:

Yep, Flight Centre, was originally scheduled for SIN, but was relocated to LAS.



Thanks. Have QF run them before? NZ ran flight centre charters BNE-LAS on 744s a decade ago, possibly on 772s once the 744s retired?


QF operated the HNL charter, which IIRC was 2017.

EY operated SXF in 2018.

Where was 2019? It’s completely escaped me.

NZ did do LAS last time, along with CUN. CX operated MFM.


Not sure about the history of the annual Flight Centre jaunt, though, especially 2019 - however if I am not mistaken, wasn't 2018/9 marked by the QF A380-800 / Woolworths promotion to Orlando, Florida / Disneyworld ? A mixture of WOW staff and retail customers..
.
 
kimshep
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:46 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
SWZ would make sense for Bonza, but we're still 3-4+ years away from SWZ opening, and a lot can happen in that time.

Personally, I think SWZ would be a better option for ZL as an alternative rather than compete with QF and VA head on. And thinking/speculating out aloud, SWZ would be an ideal place for them to flog the last use out of the SAABs for seasonal services to OOM and MHU. They could also be potentially creative in using a replacement plane, ATR42/72-600, sub-branded as "Capital Express" from SWZ and MEL to CBR. There is a lot of growth in Western Sydney, and until NSW Trains implements a faster rail service, then maybe this is a practicable option.

Cheers


For REX (ZL), there is intrinsic value in keeping the majority of their regional NSW-SYD flights at Mascot. Given that a lot of passengers from country areas are coming to Sydney for business reasons or for medical / hospital care, SYD has the advantage of being close to Prince of Wales hospital at Randwick, Royal Prince Alfred hospital at Camperdown, the Sydney Children's Hospital. the Dental Hospital in Sydney Central as well as Sydney Hospital, in Sydney CBD. Most of these are major teaching / research facilities in their own right.

As you mention, it will be a number of years before SWZ opens ~ and even then, its a substantial hike to Liverpool, Campbelltown, Blacktown and Penrith hospital(s). I would suggest that SWZ would share split usage of its capital city services only between SWZ and SYD ie: the current MEL-SYD and BNE-SYD jet services.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:09 am

First A321neo for JQ, now with engines, to be registered VH-OFE

Image

https://twitter.com/tobias_gudat/status ... gjrNkPBq2Q
 
myki
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:53 am

moa999 wrote:
PR211 wrote:
Perhaps it's about time the government or regulatory bodies stepped in to deal with the absolute chaos caused by the airlines at the moment.


What should the government do.
Ban people from taking sick days?
Require new employees to be thrown into dangerous workplaces with no training?

Agree. Government already enforce numerous regulations to keep people safe.

Is security run by airlines? I thought it would be run by the airport/government perhaps.
 
BAeRJ100
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:17 pm

I don't think the point about some sort of government intervention is necessarily to do with the cancellations per sé, but rather cracking down on the airlines making it so difficult with the fallout when it happens. Something so people can manage cancellation alternatives online without waiting hours on a phone or receive refunds in a timely manner, or not having to wait weeks to get your lost baggage returned.

myki wrote:
Is security run by airlines? I thought it would be run by the airport/government perhaps.


Security, at least at the capital city airports, is run by third party contractors.
 
beachroad
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:43 pm

PR211 wrote:
Perhaps it's about time the government or regulatory bodies stepped in to deal with the absolute chaos caused by the airlines at the moment. Particurly, QF and VA. Most people are reasonable and understand that cancellations, delays and schedule changes happen from time to time.Especially. The issue is the frequency in which these occurrences keep happening and the lack of customer care that supports these changes/cancellations.
My evidence? sure it's anecdotal, but I work for a large airport where the frequency of cancellations, changes and bags going missing daily (QF I'm looking at you) is mind boggling. When passengers arrive...they quite often are made to feel as though it is their fault. That's if they can get any announcement from the airlines when things go pair shape.
Another example was my parents recent QF trip to the US. 8 cancellations and flight changes in the space of 7 weeks. No online options given when flights were cancelled, so each time we had to call through to the call centre. One call was a 7 hour wait....
VA was OK up until recently. We had my aunties 60th planned in Cairns this week and a big family reunion. The day prior...similar situation. VA cancelled my cousins flights from Canberra and gave them no realistic alternative to get there. It was either fly sometime next week, or too bad. As a result, I'm chilling up in Cairns alone at the moment cause the rest of the family didn't think it was worth coming up without my aunty being here.
I understand there are staff shortages but what I can't understand is why airlines keep putting on more flights and announcing more routes when they can't deal with the ones they're flying.
The only positive experience I have had lately is with REX. Flew them from SYD to BNE. Amazing service from check in until the time I disembarked. Left on time. Honestly, REX is putting the other two majors to shame at the moment.


Realistically you can't shut an industry down and restart it "just like that". So many people I know got other jobs and simply found they're happy. Flight cancellations happen, but Qantas and VA need to make it very easy for people to self service rebook online, which is what major airlines all around the world have done.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:33 am

kimshep wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:


Thanks. Have QF run them before? NZ ran flight centre charters BNE-LAS on 744s a decade ago, possibly on 772s once the 744s retired?


QF operated the HNL charter, which IIRC was 2017.

EY operated SXF in 2018.

Where was 2019? It’s completely escaped me.

NZ did do LAS last time, along with CUN. CX operated MFM.


Not sure about the history of the annual Flight Centre jaunt, though, especially 2019 - however if I am not mistaken, wasn't 2018/9 marked by the QF A380-800 / Woolworths promotion to Orlando, Florida / Disneyworld ? A mixture of WOW staff and retail customers..
.


There's a link about the Orlando flight here: (was Jan 2020)
https://onemileatatime.com/qantas-a380-orlando/

btw for when the question inevitably get asked in July next year about why there's odd charter flights to DPS, that'll be Flight Centre again.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:39 am

kimshep wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
SWZ would make sense for Bonza, but we're still 3-4+ years away from SWZ opening, and a lot can happen in that time.

Personally, I think SWZ would be a better option for ZL as an alternative rather than compete with QF and VA head on. And thinking/speculating out aloud, SWZ would be an ideal place for them to flog the last use out of the SAABs for seasonal services to OOM and MHU. They could also be potentially creative in using a replacement plane, ATR42/72-600, sub-branded as "Capital Express" from SWZ and MEL to CBR. There is a lot of growth in Western Sydney, and until NSW Trains implements a faster rail service, then maybe this is a practicable option.

Cheers


For REX (ZL), there is intrinsic value in keeping the majority of their regional NSW-SYD flights at Mascot. Given that a lot of passengers from country areas are coming to Sydney for business reasons or for medical / hospital care, SYD has the advantage of being close to Prince of Wales hospital at Randwick, Royal Prince Alfred hospital at Camperdown, the Sydney Children's Hospital. the Dental Hospital in Sydney Central as well as Sydney Hospital, in Sydney CBD. Most of these are major teaching / research facilities in their own right.

As you mention, it will be a number of years before SWZ opens ~ and even then, its a substantial hike to Liverpool, Campbelltown, Blacktown and Penrith hospital(s). I would suggest that SWZ would share split usage of its capital city services only between SWZ and SYD ie: the current MEL-SYD and BNE-SYD jet services.


Another question is whether will RexJet (737 ops) or Bonza still be around by 2025, and will their Private Equity investors/shareholders (PAG and 777 respectively) pull the plug on RexJet and Bonza before then.
 
A350OZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:04 am

BAeRJ100 wrote:
I don't think the point about some sort of government intervention is necessarily to do with the cancellations per sé, but rather cracking down on the airlines making it so difficult with the fallout when it happens. Something so people can manage cancellation alternatives online without waiting hours on a phone or receive refunds in a timely manner, or not having to wait weeks to get your lost baggage returned.

myki wrote:
Is security run by airlines? I thought it would be run by the airport/government perhaps.


Security, at least at the capital city airports, is run by third party contractors.


I believe security is run by whoever controls/manages the terminal, so either the airport operator (SACL,BAC, MelAir etc.), the airline if they run their own terminal (SYD T3 used to be QF but now SACL I believe), or in regional airports the local council if they operate the airport. The actual work is outsourced to private operators 99% of the time. Government only writes the rules and purportedly audits and approves operators, but doesn’t run airport security.

The US comes to mind where security is actually performed by a government agency (TSA).
 
QF744ER
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 4:05 am

Batik Air Malaysia/Malindo has quietly switched over to operating MAX 8’s on their BNE and MEL flights which operate via DPS on both legs, these early MAX’s are still flying around in a Y180 Lion Air configuration. It’s hard to believe that 9M-LRC, which operated the world’s first 737 MAX flight is now 5.5 years old.

Believe their newer frames are being delivered in a 2 class configuration, in additional several MAX 8’s are set to be transferred across to their Malaysian operation from Lion Air, so lots of aggressive growth planned and no doubt additional flights/expansion for Australia.

For the time being the PER flights are being operated by conventional 738’s with C12/Y150 cabins.
 
A350OZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 5:52 am

Does anyone know if/when Aircalin is going to resume their MEL service?

Looks like most of their network is back to pre-Covid levels, maybe not number of flights but at least having resumed most destinations with the exception of MEL (and probably KIX?). They even launched a new twice weekly NOU-SIN service which makes a ton of sense for their small network and connections to the rest of France.
 
anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:29 am

moa999 wrote:
PR211 wrote:
Perhaps it's about time the government or regulatory bodies stepped in to deal with the absolute chaos caused by the airlines at the moment.


What should the government do.
Ban people from taking sick days?
Require new employees to be thrown into dangerous workplaces with no training?


No one is asking for people to stop taking sick days... however the airlines should be resourced up and provide enough standby coverage to cover sick leave. especially in school holidays when sick leave is higher.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:46 am

anstar wrote:
moa999 wrote:
PR211 wrote:
Perhaps it's about time the government or regulatory bodies stepped in to deal with the absolute chaos caused by the airlines at the moment.


What should the government do.
Ban people from taking sick days?
Require new employees to be thrown into dangerous workplaces with no training?


No one is asking for people to stop taking sick days... however the airlines should be resourced up and provide enough standby coverage to cover sick leave. especially in school holidays when sick leave is higher.


All parts of the aviation system can’t recruit enough we is - there is no fat for standby staff, especially with Covid still requiring isolation in many locations, not to mention flu. Also aviation is a globally inter connected, pressures from around the world have a flow on ecosystem impact.

I think we are at the point where prices will go up, substantially, capacity will drop significantly and the ULCC model will need to be reviewed for viability.

I do fully agree a refund should be far easier to access. But global ticketing systems, and integration is a stuck in the dark ages, won’t be an easy fix - if personally only ever book direct with an airline. I want a refund from the airline, be even worse dealing with an agent or online team who then hve to deal with an airline.

Just shows the impact of Covid can’t shut something phenomenally complex abs integrated as aviation, and expect it to restart in 6months!!
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