QF744ER wrote:

Batik Air Malaysia/Malindo has quietly switched over to operating MAX 8’s on their BNE and MEL flights which operate via DPS on both legs, these early MAX’s are still flying around in a Y180 Lion Air configuration. It’s hard to believe that 9M-LRC, which operated the world’s first 737 MAX flight is now 5.5 years old.

Believe their newer frames are being delivered in a 2 class configuration, in additional several MAX 8’s are set to be transferred across to their Malaysian operation from Lion Air, so lots of aggressive growth planned and no doubt additional flights/expansion for Australia.

For the time being the PER flights are being operated by conventional 738’s with C12/Y150 cabins.

Does anyone know what the long-term plan for the Lion Group in Australia? It would make more sense to shift Bali operations to Batik Indonesia or Lion rather than crew them from Malaysia. Don’t think it’s a CASA thing necessarily - Batik Indonesia flew to PER for a while (pre-pandemic, at least).

I reckon we will see some pretty impressive growth in air links between the two countries over the next decade or so, especially from secondary Indonesian cities.

tsurumaru wrote:

QF744ER wrote:

Batik Air Malaysia/Malindo has quietly switched over to operating MAX 8’s on their BNE and MEL flights which operate via DPS on both legs, these early MAX’s are still flying around in a Y180 Lion Air configuration. It’s hard to believe that 9M-LRC, which operated the world’s first 737 MAX flight is now 5.5 years old.

Believe their newer frames are being delivered in a 2 class configuration, in additional several MAX 8’s are set to be transferred across to their Malaysian operation from Lion Air, so lots of aggressive growth planned and no doubt additional flights/expansion for Australia.

For the time being the PER flights are being operated by conventional 738’s with C12/Y150 cabins.

Does anyone know what the long-term plan for the Lion Group in Australia? It would make more sense to shift Bali operations to Batik Indonesia or Lion rather than crew them from Malaysia. Don’t think it’s a CASA thing necessarily - Batik Indonesia flew to PER for a while (pre-pandemic, at least).

I reckon we will see some pretty impressive growth in air links between the two countries over the next decade or so, especially from secondary Indonesian cities.

Id like to think secondary Indonesian cities would work, but even PER-LOP failed at a few days a week. Any airline wanting to start secondary cities you’d hope has really done the numbers.

On a separate note, does anyone know the timeframe of when VA’s 737-700s start arriving for VARA.
I can see on Wikipedia (I know not the best source) says they’re getting 15, presumably that includes the 2 operating for mainline, doesn’t have any timeframes though. Any article only refers to when the MAXs arrive.

During Covid, Jetstar Asia had some A320's move to Network Aviation in Perth, they now sit at 7 A320. Does anyone who whether Jetstar Asia have any plans to add more aircraft to their fleet? They are down from their peak of 20 A320's at 3K.

Can anyone see why FJ931 from Nadi to Melbourne diverted to Adelaide yesterday? It looks as though the flight went to land into Melbourne and then aborted and flew in the direction of Sydney before diverting to Adelaide. Hoping the link below works!

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#2c9273b3

utaussiefan wrote:

During Covid, Jetstar Asia had some A320's move to Network Aviation in Perth, they now sit at 7 A320. Does anyone who whether Jetstar Asia have any plans to add more aircraft to their fleet? They are down from their peak of 20 A320's at 3K.

I wonder if they could do with some 321s? I know not specific to Australia, but they never seemed to find their groove and then the merger of Tiger and Scoot has really challenged them.

I still think it’s a shame JL didn’t use the Jetstar brand for ZIP - more brand growth and development.

QantasA333 wrote:

Can anyone see why FJ931 from Nadi to Melbourne diverted to Adelaide yesterday? It looks as though the flight went to land into Melbourne and then aborted and flew in the direction of Sydney before diverting to Adelaide. Hoping the link below works!

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#2c9273b3

Strange, as weather shouldn’t be an issue today in Melbourne.

Flew from Newcastle to Townsville today on Virgin and never stepped foot on a Virgin plane. Alliance Fokker 100 to Brisbane and Air North E190 to Townsville ( complete white body ). I must say Alliance are doing alot of lifting judging by the amount of their planes at both the Qantas and Virgin ends of the airport.
On another note Alliance have some very cool liveries.

Has QF moved to 100% ownership of Alliance, last I heard they had 19.9% (?) and was moving to 100%. If they have not yet finalised the deal, when do they expect to.??

Re previous post. Forget I asked, I have just reviewed the matter on the ACCC website. cheers

QantasA333 wrote:

Can anyone see why FJ931 from Nadi to Melbourne diverted to Adelaide yesterday? It looks as though the flight went to land into Melbourne and then aborted and flew in the direction of Sydney before diverting to Adelaide. Hoping the link below works!

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#2c9273b3

There were patches of fog at MEL and AVV on Saturday evening. Didn’t interrupt things too much. A JQ service returned to LST for more fuel was the only other notable movement.

Maybe they tried to go to Sydney but couldn’t get the curfew waiver, but could get it at ADL?

Batik Air Malaysia will increase KUL-PER from 8 weekly to 11 weekly from 15 Sep 22, will also see 4 of those 11 weekly with 737MAX

On top of the 11 weekly they will also start a 4 weekly KUL-DPS-PER from 15 Sep 22, 737MAX operating

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220711-odsep22per

Scoot flight TR9 returned back to Perth tonight after circling out near Rottnest. Any info on the problem? One report was it landed with one engine.

Boof wrote:

QantasA333 wrote:

Can anyone see why FJ931 from Nadi to Melbourne diverted to Adelaide yesterday? It looks as though the flight went to land into Melbourne and then aborted and flew in the direction of Sydney before diverting to Adelaide. Hoping the link below works!

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#2c9273b3

There were patches of fog at MEL and AVV on Saturday evening. Didn’t interrupt things too much. A JQ service returned to LST for more fuel was the only other notable movement.

Maybe they tried to go to Sydney but couldn’t get the curfew waiver, but could get it at ADL?

SYD couldn't have been the alternate since you can't use it as an alternate after curfew (can still be used as an emergency, but not as an alternate for planning purposes). Likely that CBR was the alternate, but choice likely to made to divert to ADL since pilots would have timed out and possibly better options to get passengers. Also, likely that customs and immigration was already closed at CBR, but still available at ADL.

waoz1 wrote:

Scoot flight TR9 returned back to Perth tonight after circling out near Rottnest. Any info on the problem? One report was it landed with one engine.

Whatever it was, it was a pretty immediate decision. They leveled off at 7,500ft and made an immediate turn to go out to sea and circle, likely to dump fuel and/or run some checklists. Although didn't spend too much time in the hold, probably didn't need to dump too much to get below max landing weight.

evanb wrote:

waoz1 wrote:

Scoot flight TR9 returned back to Perth tonight after circling out near Rottnest. Any info on the problem? One report was it landed with one engine.

Whatever it was, it was a pretty immediate decision. They leveled off at 7,500ft and made an immediate turn to go out to sea and circle, likely to dump fuel and/or run some checklists. Although didn't spend too much time in the hold, probably didn't need to dump too much to get below max landing weight.

News report might shed some more light.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... t-TR9.html

evanb wrote:

Boof wrote:

QantasA333 wrote:

Can anyone see why FJ931 from Nadi to Melbourne diverted to Adelaide yesterday? It looks as though the flight went to land into Melbourne and then aborted and flew in the direction of Sydney before diverting to Adelaide. Hoping the link below works!

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 1#2c9273b3

There were patches of fog at MEL and AVV on Saturday evening. Didn’t interrupt things too much. A JQ service returned to LST for more fuel was the only other notable movement.

Maybe they tried to go to Sydney but couldn’t get the curfew waiver, but could get it at ADL?

SYD couldn't have been the alternate since you can't use it as an alternate after curfew (can still be used as an emergency, but not as an alternate for planning purposes). Likely that CBR was the alternate, but choice likely to made to divert to ADL since pilots would have timed out and possibly better options to get passengers. Also, likely that customs and immigration was already closed at CBR, but still available at ADL.

Because inflight decision making is an interest of mine, and as I never actually said SYD was the alternate, I decided to listen to the audio archives from ATC. This is what happened:

- FJ931 approached Rwy 16 at MEL, and went around due not becoming visual on the ILS. On climb out ATC gave the option to return but as MEL was under reduced vis operations and FJ were Cat1 only they advised diverting to Sydney.
- MEL CTR then advised of the dispensation requirements for the curfew, and that SYD only had 34R available which had 5 knots tailwind, and 15 knots Xwind.
- shortly afterwards MEL CTR then updated FJ931 that weather was approaching from the south, a curfew dispensation would be unlikely for 16L and the winds would be 30+ knots. Crew were advised the weather would beat them to SYD.
- FJ931 then asked for updated MEL weather, and due fuel could they turn towards ADL while they worked it out.
- Shortly thereafter the crew opted to divert to ADL. ATC coordinated with FJ company to arrange the dispensation for the ADL curfew.
- As the weather improved at MEL, FJ were given the option by ATC to go back to MEL but they opted to continue to ADL.

All of this is available on the LiveATC archives for those who want to listen for themselves.

Boof wrote:

- As the weather improved at MEL, FJ were given the option by ATC to go back to MEL but they opted to continue to ADL. [/list]

Approx where were they when this happened?

evanb wrote:

SYD couldn't have been the alternate since you can't use it as an alternate after curfew (can still be used as an emergency, but not as an alternate for planning purposes).

Is there a list of events somewhere that shows when the SYD curfew has been exempted?

qf2220 wrote:

Boof wrote:

- As the weather improved at MEL, FJ were given the option by ATC to go back to MEL but they opted to continue to ADL. [/list]

Approx where were they when this happened?

Overhead Boort (NNW of Bendigo) at FL340. MEL CTR passed on a message from MEL TWR that VIS was back to above 10km but shallow fog persisted - it was advised FJ would be able to get in on a CAT1 ILS approach but the crew opted to continue to ADL.

qf2220 wrote:

evanb wrote:

SYD couldn't have been the alternate since you can't use it as an alternate after curfew (can still be used as an emergency, but not as an alternate for planning purposes).

Is there a list of events somewhere that shows when the SYD curfew has been exempted?

Curfew dispensations are reported here: https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infra ... ed-reports

Boof wrote:

Because inflight decision making is an interest of mine, and as I never actually said SYD was the alternate, I decided to listen to the audio archives from ATC. This is what happened:

- FJ931 approached Rwy 16 at MEL, and went around due not becoming visual on the ILS. On climb out ATC gave the option to return but as MEL was under reduced vis operations and FJ were Cat1 only they advised diverting to Sydney.
- MEL CTR then advised of the dispensation requirements for the curfew, and that SYD only had 34R available which had 5 knots tailwind, and 15 knots Xwind.
- shortly afterwards MEL CTR then updated FJ931 that weather was approaching from the south, a curfew dispensation would be unlikely for 16L and the winds would be 30+ knots. Crew were advised the weather would beat them to SYD.
- FJ931 then asked for updated MEL weather, and due fuel could they turn towards ADL while they worked it out.
- Shortly thereafter the crew opted to divert to ADL. ATC coordinated with FJ company to arrange the dispensation for the ADL curfew.
- As the weather improved at MEL, FJ were given the option by ATC to go back to MEL but they opted to continue to ADL.

All of this is available on the LiveATC archives for those who want to listen for themselves.

Fascinating, thanks for the summary. I wonder if this was MEL CTR SOP to offer SYD at first?

Something which the summary doesn't show is how quickly this all happened! From when they decided to go around at roughly 200ft (maybe even lower) until they turn off runway heading in the direction of SYD takes +- two minutes. They track towards SYD for +- 9 minutes before they turn for ADL. When you consider how much work was being done on the flight deck at this time - both the ATC communications as well as assessing and prepping the aircraft, e.g. fuel estimates, potential landing estimates and configurations for various landing permutations that were impacted by multiple minimums (visual and wind) in order to make decisions, all while considering implications for pax and company - extraordinary work! When lay people make jokes about automation (i.e. the plane can land itself), I'd love them to see something like this happen in person, seeing the rapid application of knowledge and skill under stress and see if they continue to make jokes about automation!

evanb wrote:

Fascinating, thanks for the summary. I wonder if this was MEL CTR SOP to offer SYD at first?

Departures asked FJ were they ready to rejoin for a 2nd attempt, FJ asked the timeframe to land the other way and was advised 20+ mins due to other traffic established for 16 (there was a VA flight from CNS on a very long approach). As soon as that happened FJ instantly said we are diverting to SYD. There was no offer of a diversion location in any of the conversations with the various ATC units other than MEL CTR advising that SYD wasn't a good idea.

evanb wrote:

Something which the summary doesn't show is how quickly this all happened! From when they decided to go around at roughly 200ft (maybe even lower) until they turn off runway heading in the direction of SYD takes +- two minutes. They track towards SYD for +- 9 minutes before they turn for ADL. When you consider how much work was being done on the flight deck at this time - both the ATC communications as well as assessing and prepping the aircraft, e.g. fuel estimates, potential landing estimates and configurations for various landing permutations that were impacted by multiple minimums (visual and wind) in order to make decisions, all while considering implications for pax and company - extraordinary work! When lay people make jokes about automation (i.e. the plane can land itself), I'd love them to see something like this happen in person, seeing the rapid application of knowledge and skill under stress and see if they continue to make jokes about automation!

Yeah correct, lots of things to work through in a short period of time which I always find really interesting. From Go-Around to the turn towards ADL was 22 mins in total and in that time they'd considered SYD, then ruled SYD out, was considering MEL while turning towards ADL, and finally decided on ADL. Of note the crew were pushing to arrive on 23 at ADL "due fuel and shorter track" but ATC told them it would only be 05 for the dispensation unless they declared an issue.

Having commercial arrangements for ground handling etc. at ADL probably made it easier from a logistical perspective, but curfew-free CBR seems like the obvious diversion point in a situation like this, especially if they were cutting it close with fuel by going to ADL.

RyanairGuru wrote:

Having commercial arrangements for ground handling etc. at ADL probably made it easier from a logistical perspective, but curfew-free CBR seems like the obvious diversion point in a situation like this, especially if they were cutting it close with fuel by going to ADL.

Yep, and doubtful that customs and immigration would be available at CBR at that hour. Not that they would have been available at ADL at that time, but much easier to arrange given the scale of ADL compared to CBR.

Surprised nobody has mentioned the QantasLink 717 currently bogged in the soil at ROK...

https://cqtoday.com.au/news/2022/07/12/ ... t-planted/

Given the airline chaos currently I thought I'd share my positive experience from today. I had some domestic flights with VA booked over the next week and due to positive covid test today I can't proceed with those so called to cancel as 3 flights on 1 booking and I plan to keep one active. No wait time at all (Velocity Silver maybe helped). Explained situation and what I wanted, no problem and cancel fee waived with full value cancelled flights to travel bank.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Boof wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

Boof wrote:

- As the weather improved at MEL, FJ were given the option by ATC to go back to MEL but they opted to continue to ADL. [/list]

Approx where were they when this happened?

Overhead Boort (NNW of Bendigo) at FL340. MEL CTR passed on a message from MEL TWR that VIS was back to above 10km but shallow fog persisted - it was advised FJ would be able to get in on a CAT1 ILS approach but the crew opted to continue to ADL.

qf2220 wrote:

evanb wrote:

SYD couldn't have been the alternate since you can't use it as an alternate after curfew (can still be used as an emergency, but not as an alternate for planning purposes).

Is there a list of events somewhere that shows when the SYD curfew has been exempted?

Curfew dispensations are reported here: https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infra ... ed-reports

Thanks for these. Interesting reading in the second one.

smi0006 wrote:

Chipmunk1973 wrote:

Virgin Australia launch teases “a new era of flying”

VA's media event that was scheduled for May 27 but cancelled will now be held on Fri 22 July.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... -of-flying

New era of flying? Brand refresh? Refreshed livery, uniform, cabins? Seems like now might be a good time to showcase the new VA? I like the VA brand, but could do with a bit more… depth? Not sure

Has to be big, and not too gimmicky if they are hyping it this much and have pushed it back?

And no BOB snacks for flights under 90 minutes

Have the reports about airport chaos been a bit of a media beat up of late?

Just did a weekend trip to Melbourne. Got to ADL around 8:30 Friday morning (for what was meant to be a 10:40am flight), and while the media were all there waiting for chaos check in and security were very quiet (in fact there was zero line up at security). Ended up being delayed nearly 3 hours (it is what it is, plus we had a lovely meal at Penfolds Kitchen), so did a few laps of the terminal. While the terminal was bustling, it wasn't chaos, and even the few times we walked past security the line up seemed to barely get 3 lines deep.

On the way back, flew from T1 at MEL. The terminal was largely quiet when we were there (from about 4:15ish to 6:45pm when we boarded). No line up at check in, no line up at security, and observing the security line from the Qantas Club for an hour or so (since they long gave the tarmac views to the Business lounge), the line barely reached the second line. Sure, the flight had a minor delay, but that meant more time in the Qantas Club.

Both ADL and T1 at MEL should be commended for keeping on top of things in recent days. It was nowhere near the chaos being reported in the media.

Monday morning last week went to SYD Qantas Domestic. Lines fully packed the departures level, snaking around everywhere. At least 40 minutes to get screened. Im glad I left early because I woke up early...

What I noticed is that there is now only 4 lines for screening because of some large new machines that have been installed. IIRC there were more lanes, maybe 6 or 8 at that same chokepoint and i think reducing them might have been shortsighted.

Having said that a SYD-MEL on a Sunday lunchtime returning Friday evening went off without a hitch, baggage included.

Hey qf2220,
We had the opposite experience to you last Monday morning at QF SYD domestic. We arrived three hours early for our Melbourne flight due to an unusual lack of traffic on the Hume and M5 giving us the fastest airport trip any of us could remember.
No drama leaving the car at Blu Emu and absolutely no line ups at baggage drop in T3 nor at the security lines at 7am. We were expecting queues but were pleasantly surprised.
The flight however, ended up leaving about 70 minutes late….
One interesting thing… on our return flight a week later, my son and his girlfriend both started feeling unwell towards the end of the flight. Once home a few hours later, both took RATs and both tested positive. They had no symptoms nor felt unwell prior to boarding the flight. Around midnight I rang Qantas to let them know.
Does anyone know if Qantas or any airline contact passengers seated around confirmed positive covid cases anymore? Just curious.
And by the way, we all wore masks the entire flight.
Cheers
Bunumuring

I recently flew to SIN in J on A330. Has QF changed their policy on the partial recline feature of their Thompson J Class seats as, during descent, the cabin crew were firm that the seats had to be in a full upright position? Is this a change and, if so, why?

tullamarine wrote:

I recently flew to SIN in J on A330. Has QF changed their policy on the partial recline feature of their Thompson J Class seats as, during descent, the cabin crew were firm that the seats had to be in a full upright position? Is this a change and, if so, why?

Definitely a first world problem.

tullamarine wrote:

I recently flew to SIN in J on A330. Has QF changed their policy on the partial recline feature of their Thompson J Class seats as, during descent, the cabin crew were firm that the seats had to be in a full upright position? Is this a change and, if so, why?

Probs just a regulatory or policy review. Maybe someone got hurt?

I know there were some findings from that QF evacuation in SYD around cabin crew instructions, and cabin preparedness - perhaps somehow something was picked up?

CASA is pretty conservative, I did hear years ago the reason QF didn’t have proper suites on their 380s as CASA didn’t approve doors. Like ETOPS they have finally caught up with the rest of the world and approved them.

Side note - just flew BNE-SIN in Y on QF, and then BNE-DXB on EK in F. Got to say for all the QF bashing I thought they were great in Y. Solid meal, and snack, crew did lots of water runs, and offered snacks outside of meals. Great pillow and blanket! If I had to be super critical IFE choice felt limited and slow to respond…. But that’s looking for a fault. F Lounge in SIN was incredible - staff were phenomenal! QF 2 was delayed as catering hit the aircraft, Captain and CSM walked round the lounge explaining what had happened - was classy, and everyone appreciated it. Only fault was the feral children running around as if the place was a playground, and the wanna be influencers being rude to the poor staff, interesting crowd.

Could ET entering the Australian market work? I feel like Melbourne is a decently viable market for ET to try out, especially with the network ET boasts in Africa and Europe.

The Ethiopian population in Australia isn't really much, standing at around 20,000, but considering that ET heavily relies on its use of ADD for connections, I could see this working great. Australia has about 168,000 people from sub-saharan countries, and this alone could justify trying out the market. Adding on the fact that the tourism industry in Africa is growing very quickly, it would seem like a solid experiment at the very least. Heck ET could even connect Australians to Europe. I can easily see LH, A3, and SAS codesharing on ET's routes to Perth and Melbourne (maybe even Sydney if it works well). I would be tough to compete with Emirates, Qatar, and Ethiad, but it's very well known that ET has the best network in Africa so maybe it's worth a shot.

I could see a ADD-PER-MEL-PER-ADD route working well if its scheduled to allow further connections to Africa and Europe.

fren wrote:

Could ET entering the Australian market work? I feel like Melbourne is a decently viable market for ET to try out, especially with the network ET boasts in Africa and Europe.

The Ethiopian population in Australia isn't really much, standing at around 20,000, but considering that ET heavily relies on its use of ADD for connections, I could see this working great. Australia has about 168,000 people from sub-saharan countries, and this alone could justify trying out the market. Adding on the fact that the tourism industry in Africa is growing very quickly, it would seem like a solid experiment at the very least. Heck ET could even connect Australians to Europe. I can easily see LH, A3, and SAS codesharing on ET's routes to Perth and Melbourne (maybe even Sydney if it works well). I would be tough to compete with Emirates, Qatar, and Ethiad, but it's very well known that ET has the best network in Africa so maybe it's worth a shot.

I could see a ADD-PER-MEL-PER-ADD route working well if its scheduled to allow further connections to Africa and Europe.

There’s probably some demand to mop up given that SAA daily hasn’t returned, and with only a seasonal JNB flight to PER yet to start.
I know over the years KQ was slated/rumoured to be looking at PER…

F100Flyer wrote:

fren wrote:

Could ET entering the Australian market work? I feel like Melbourne is a decently viable market for ET to try out, especially with the network ET boasts in Africa and Europe.

The Ethiopian population in Australia isn't really much, standing at around 20,000, but considering that ET heavily relies on its use of ADD for connections, I could see this working great. Australia has about 168,000 people from sub-saharan countries, and this alone could justify trying out the market. Adding on the fact that the tourism industry in Africa is growing very quickly, it would seem like a solid experiment at the very least. Heck ET could even connect Australians to Europe. I can easily see LH, A3, and SAS codesharing on ET's routes to Perth and Melbourne (maybe even Sydney if it works well). I would be tough to compete with Emirates, Qatar, and Ethiad, but it's very well known that ET has the best network in Africa so maybe it's worth a shot.

I could see a ADD-PER-MEL-PER-ADD route working well if its scheduled to allow further connections to Africa and Europe.

There’s probably some demand to mop up given that SAA daily hasn’t returned, and with only a seasonal JNB flight to PER yet to start.
I know over the years KQ was slated/rumoured to be looking at PER…

QF’s PER-JNB is year round not seasonal

fren wrote:

Could ET entering the Australian market work? I feel like Melbourne is a decently viable market for ET to try out, especially with the network ET boasts in Africa and Europe.

The Ethiopian population in Australia isn't really much, standing at around 20,000, but considering that ET heavily relies on its use of ADD for connections, I could see this working great. Australia has about 168,000 people from sub-saharan countries, and this alone could justify trying out the market. Adding on the fact that the tourism industry in Africa is growing very quickly, it would seem like a solid experiment at the very least. Heck ET could even connect Australians to Europe. I can easily see LH, A3, and SAS codesharing on ET's routes to Perth and Melbourne (maybe even Sydney if it works well). I would be tough to compete with Emirates, Qatar, and Ethiad, but it's very well known that ET has the best network in Africa so maybe it's worth a shot.

I could see a ADD-PER-MEL-PER-ADD route working well if its scheduled to allow further connections to Africa and Europe.

Not to sure myself, if anything it needs to be non stop to SYD/MEL. PER could work with a domestic partner for onward connections, but a 4-5hr domestic tag would kill the economics I think.

ZK-NBT wrote:

fren wrote:

Could ET entering the Australian market work? I feel like Melbourne is a decently viable market for ET to try out, especially with the network ET boasts in Africa and Europe.

The Ethiopian population in Australia isn't really much, standing at around 20,000, but considering that ET heavily relies on its use of ADD for connections, I could see this working great. Australia has about 168,000 people from sub-saharan countries, and this alone could justify trying out the market. Adding on the fact that the tourism industry in Africa is growing very quickly, it would seem like a solid experiment at the very least. Heck ET could even connect Australians to Europe. I can easily see LH, A3, and SAS codesharing on ET's routes to Perth and Melbourne (maybe even Sydney if it works well). I would be tough to compete with Emirates, Qatar, and Ethiad, but it's very well known that ET has the best network in Africa so maybe it's worth a shot.

I could see a ADD-PER-MEL-PER-ADD route working well if its scheduled to allow further connections to Africa and Europe.

Not to sure myself, if anything it needs to be non stop to SYD/MEL. PER could work with a domestic partner for onward connections, but a 4-5hr domestic tag would kill the economics I think.

I think we're much more likely to see TK in Australia first, and like has been previously discussed here... nonstop to SYD/MEL

ZK-NBT wrote:

fren wrote:

Could ET entering the Australian market work? I feel like Melbourne is a decently viable market for ET to try out, especially with the network ET boasts in Africa and Europe.

The Ethiopian population in Australia isn't really much, standing at around 20,000, but considering that ET heavily relies on its use of ADD for connections, I could see this working great. Australia has about 168,000 people from sub-saharan countries, and this alone could justify trying out the market. Adding on the fact that the tourism industry in Africa is growing very quickly, it would seem like a solid experiment at the very least. Heck ET could even connect Australians to Europe. I can easily see LH, A3, and SAS codesharing on ET's routes to Perth and Melbourne (maybe even Sydney if it works well). I would be tough to compete with Emirates, Qatar, and Ethiad, but it's very well known that ET has the best network in Africa so maybe it's worth a shot.

I could see a ADD-PER-MEL-PER-ADD route working well if its scheduled to allow further connections to Africa and Europe.

Not to sure myself, if anything it needs to be non stop to SYD/MEL. PER could work with a domestic partner for onward connections, but a 4-5hr domestic tag would kill the economics I think.

With QF finally acknowledging the importance of PER as a western hub, I would not be surprised to see other airlines follow suit. MK is due back later this year, and I think a 3 x weekly PER-ADD with connections to VA would work fantastically. Africa is generally lower yielding, so the importance of non-stop isn’t as high. At work, I’ve seen people take five or six flights just to get to their final destination (for example MEL-SIN-DXB-ADD-EBB)

Interesting development... REX is purchasing National Jet Express (regional arm of Cobham in WA/SA)

Source

ben175 wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

fren wrote:

Could ET entering the Australian market work? I feel like Melbourne is a decently viable market for ET to try out, especially with the network ET boasts in Africa and Europe.

The Ethiopian population in Australia isn't really much, standing at around 20,000, but considering that ET heavily relies on its use of ADD for connections, I could see this working great. Australia has about 168,000 people from sub-saharan countries, and this alone could justify trying out the market. Adding on the fact that the tourism industry in Africa is growing very quickly, it would seem like a solid experiment at the very least. Heck ET could even connect Australians to Europe. I can easily see LH, A3, and SAS codesharing on ET's routes to Perth and Melbourne (maybe even Sydney if it works well). I would be tough to compete with Emirates, Qatar, and Ethiad, but it's very well known that ET has the best network in Africa so maybe it's worth a shot.

I could see a ADD-PER-MEL-PER-ADD route working well if its scheduled to allow further connections to Africa and Europe.

Not to sure myself, if anything it needs to be non stop to SYD/MEL. PER could work with a domestic partner for onward connections, but a 4-5hr domestic tag would kill the economics I think.

With QF finally acknowledging the importance of PER as a western hub, I would not be surprised to see other airlines follow suit. MK is due back later this year, and I think a 3 x weekly PER-ADD with connections to VA would work fantastically. Africa is generally lower yielding, so the importance of non-stop isn’t as high. At work, I’ve seen people take five or six flights just to get to their final destination (for example MEL-SIN-DXB-ADD-EBB)

I highly doubt this would work, but maybe ET could try and get fifth freedom rights from Perth to Melbourne (or Sydney). Qantas would most likely be concerned and shut it down quick, but it's fun to think about.

Best case scenario is ET starts ADD-PER-MEL and signs an interline or codeshare agreement with VA. ET could easily funnel some passengers to New Zealand as NZ and ET are in the same alliance and could sign a codeshare agreement without much trouble. ADD-PER on ET and then transfer to PER-AKL on NZ. This essentially connects all of Oceania with Africa and Europe within two stops (would have to use PER as transfer base since MEL is too far for non-stop). Obviously not as good as EK, EY, and QR's services but I think there should be enough demand for ET to at least profit on a 3X weekly schedule using a 787-8/9.

ben175 wrote:

Interesting development... REX is purchasing National Jet Express (regional arm of Cobham in WA/SA)

Source

Very interesting. A more logical move than the RexJet expansion.

Doesnt leave much left in the Cobham fleet and reduces the Cobham business even further. I wonder if more of it wont go to Rex later/

I wonder if this recent move by REX's part owner/investor PAG gives it room for them to exit the RexJet 'adventure' on the East Coast. They did get the leases on the 6 737s for a song initially.

qf2220 wrote:

ben175 wrote:

Interesting development... REX is purchasing National Jet Express (regional arm of Cobham in WA/SA)

Source

Very interesting. A more logical move than the RexJet expansion.

Doesnt leave much left in the Cobham fleet and reduces the Cobham business even further. I wonder if more of it wont go to Rex later/

Agreed that this seems like a more logical growth path for Rex. Making a play for Alliance could have been quite a sensible opportunity for them, but that ship has likely sailed. If they are serious about the FIFO market then Skippers could be an attractive investment, to make a more competitive fourth player against QQ/NWK/VARA.

From the article I gather that NJE are the FIFO carrier operating E190s and Q400s. Which part of Cobham operates the BAe146 cargo aircraft?

I’m quite surprised that Qantas didn’t hold the trademark for ‘NationalJet’ after re-acquiring NJS in 2020.

RyanairGuru wrote:

From the article I gather that NJE are the FIFO carrier operating E190s and Q400s. Which part of Cobham operates the BAe146 cargo aircraft?

I’m quite surprised that Qantas didn’t hold the trademark for ‘NationalJet’ after re-acquiring NJS in 2020.

The ASX update mentions the freight fleet as part of the deal and from Cobham’s website the business is split into two divisions only (Charter & FIFO and Special Missions). Only my assumption, but based on how it’s worded the only bit that is not included would be the SAR and Border force fleets that sit in “special missions”.

Interesting no mention of the 146 freighters in the news articles though.

RyanairGuru wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

ben175 wrote:

Interesting development... REX is purchasing National Jet Express (regional arm of Cobham in WA/SA)

Source

Very interesting. A more logical move than the RexJet expansion.

Doesnt leave much left in the Cobham fleet and reduces the Cobham business even further. I wonder if more of it wont go to Rex later/

Agreed that this seems like a more logical growth path for Rex. Making a play for Alliance could have been quite a sensible opportunity for them, but that ship has likely sailed. If they are serious about the FIFO market then Skippers could be an attractive investment, to make a more competitive fourth player against QQ/NWK/VARA.

From the article I gather that NJE are the FIFO carrier operating E190s and Q400s. Which part of Cobham operates the BAe146 cargo aircraft?

I’m quite surprised that Qantas didn’t hold the trademark for ‘NationalJet’ after re-acquiring NJS in 2020.

The other thing that strikes me with this is the acquisition of 6x E190s and 8x Q400s (maybe more orders if wikipedia is accurate). Both these aircraft types could easily be leveraged by the REX business elswehere.

Youve made me rethink your business sense Rex. Well done.

RyanairGuru wrote:

From the article I gather that NJE are the FIFO carrier operating E190s and Q400s. Which part of Cobham operates the BAe146 cargo aircraft?

I’m quite surprised that Qantas didn’t hold the trademark for ‘NationalJet’ after re-acquiring NJS in 2020.

The freighters also fall under NJE.

Some people find the National Jet/Cobham thing a bit confusing, so for clarity:
Back in the day, National Jet had two passenger operations - National Jet Systems, which began operating on behalf of Australian using the Airlink brand and eventually Qantaslink, and National Jet Express, which operated charter services using National Jet's own branding and freighters for Australian air Express. NJS went from 146s to 717s, NJE evolved from 146s to RJs and later the Q400/E190. Cobham plc purchased the entire National Jet business in 2000, and in 2009 rebranded the NJE side of the business to "Cobham". It's important to note that this is a "doing business as" name only, the company's legal identity has always been National Jet Express, and is the name you will find on their AOC and to which all of their aircraft have been registered.

Basically, there's nothing for Qantas to trademark, NJE has as much of a claim to the National Jet name as they do.

freshwater wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

fren wrote:

Could ET entering the Australian market work? I feel like Melbourne is a decently viable market for ET to try out, especially with the network ET boasts in Africa and Europe.

The Ethiopian population in Australia isn't really much, standing at around 20,000, but considering that ET heavily relies on its use of ADD for connections, I could see this working great. Australia has about 168,000 people from sub-saharan countries, and this alone could justify trying out the market. Adding on the fact that the tourism industry in Africa is growing very quickly, it would seem like a solid experiment at the very least. Heck ET could even connect Australians to Europe. I can easily see LH, A3, and SAS codesharing on ET's routes to Perth and Melbourne (maybe even Sydney if it works well). I would be tough to compete with Emirates, Qatar, and Ethiad, but it's very well known that ET has the best network in Africa so maybe it's worth a shot.

I could see a ADD-PER-MEL-PER-ADD route working well if its scheduled to allow further connections to Africa and Europe.

Not to sure myself, if anything it needs to be non stop to SYD/MEL. PER could work with a domestic partner for onward connections, but a 4-5hr domestic tag would kill the economics I think.

I think we're much more likely to see TK in Australia first, and like has been previously discussed here... nonstop to SYD/MEL

I see Saudi airspace has now opened to Israel, wonder if this makes LY to MEL more likely? Removed a bit of a detour, but also competing with EK harder.

ADD to MEL non stop could be tricky with heat and altitude in ADD perhaps? I think it would be an exciting market to connect, and love to see more ties between Africa and Australia, but I think we are 5-10yrs it off flying.

Hope with all the money from government drifting around we see a few more interesting route announcements- UA to BNE was a good one!

tullamarine wrote:

I recently flew to SIN in J on A330. Has QF changed their policy on the partial recline feature of their Thompson J Class seats as, during descent, the cabin crew were firm that the seats had to be in a full upright position? Is this a change and, if so, why?

Think the crew member may have been confused. Certification was granted for some degree of recline in the Business Suite when first introduced. There is a green light that comes on near the floor that indicates the seat is in an approved position for taxi, take off and landing.