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Long time lurker, first time poster here. Just curious to see what people think about VA’s Haneda slot?

I seem to recall that both QF and VA have to use their Haneda slots to the full extent by the end of OCT2022? Do you think VA would have the plane ready to fly that route by then? If not, would the use by date be extended again? Or would the slot be taken off VA and handed to QF (only other Aus airline capable of doing it)?

Cheers.

Continuing on from the last thread (sorry, cab't eork out how to quote from it), for MEL to South India/Sri Lanka there are options of UL to CMB so that's a tick for Sri Lanka, or one stop transfers on UL/SQ/MH etc.

As well all know, India is a big market but the population is spread out, same as in Australia, so apart from the likes of DEL BOM BLR then a one-stop itinerary will probably be the common way to travel for the time being.

myw168051 wrote:

Long time lurker, first time poster here. Just curious to see what people think about VA’s Haneda slot?

I seem to recall that both QF and VA have to use their Haneda slots to the full extent by the end of OCT2022? Do you think VA would have the plane ready to fly that route by then? If not, would the use by date be extended again? Or would the slot be taken off VA and handed to QF (only other Aus airline capable of doing it)?

Cheers.

HND Slot gets handed back to the IATA and IATA puts it out to tender again. Basically QF will have to apply for it if VA does not use it by October 2022.

There has been speculation across the internet on the other travel sites/forums that VA may operate CNS-GUM-HND (including 5th freedoms between GUM-HND) with the existing VAi 738s to keep the slot, but at this stage that is entirely speculation and may likely not happen.

myki wrote:

Continuing on from the last thread (sorry, cab't eork out how to quote from it), for MEL to South India/Sri Lanka there are options of UL to CMB so that's a tick for Sri Lanka, or one stop transfers on UL/SQ/MH etc.

As well all know, India is a big market but the population is spread out, same as in Australia, so apart from the likes of DEL BOM BLR then a one-stop itinerary will probably be the common way to travel for the time being.

I'm not sure the specifics of the flight (?temporary) but UL has been operating a flight from TRV to MEL. It has appeared on FR24 a few times as UL604. Anyone know more about this?

gpasternak wrote:

myki wrote:

Continuing on from the last thread (sorry, cab't eork out how to quote from it), for MEL to South India/Sri Lanka there are options of UL to CMB so that's a tick for Sri Lanka, or one stop transfers on UL/SQ/MH etc.

As well all know, India is a big market but the population is spread out, same as in Australia, so apart from the likes of DEL BOM BLR then a one-stop itinerary will probably be the common way to travel for the time being.

I'm not sure the specifics of the flight (?temporary) but UL has been operating a flight from TRV to MEL. It has appeared on FR24 a few times as UL604. Anyone know more about this?

It is because of fuel shortages at CMB

SCFlyer wrote:

HND Slot gets handed back to the IATA and IATA puts it out to tender again. Basically QF will have to apply for it if VA does not use it by October 2022.

I was about to say "that's now how the slots work", but then realized you must have meant IASC, not IATA. Currently VA have a derogation until October 2022 and I suspect they'll get another one year extension since QF are not using their HND slots either. But assuming QF are using theirs by October 2023 then they will certainly return ton IASC and go up for tender again.

SCFlyer wrote:

There has been speculation across the internet on the other travel sites/forums that VA may operate CNS-GUM-HND (including 5th freedoms between GUM-HND) with the existing VAi 738s to keep the slot, but at this stage that is entirely speculation and may likely not happen.

I very much doubt this. Firstly, while Virgin's authority is valid without conditions as to the points in Australia they serve or capacity, much of the analysis that IASC took into account looked at capacity and city pairs. Operating a B737 rather than the proposed A330 would almost certainly result in them loosing the slot when it comes up for review in 2024. Secondly, it's not clear that the slots would be valid for use via GUM. The slots provided to Australia are essentially bilateral remedy slots to be used between Australia and Japan only. They're explicitly covered by the bilateral. That said, nothing would stop them using GUM as a tech-stop for fuel.

Does anyone know with VA returning to DPS, if there 10pm departures back to the East Coast.

What the meal service in J is? eg is it an breakfast before arrival back into Australia? Or diner on departure.

myw168051 wrote:

Long time lurker, first time poster here. Just curious to see what people think about VA’s Haneda slot?

I seem to recall that both QF and VA have to use their Haneda slots to the full extent by the end of OCT2022? Do you think VA would have the plane ready to fly that route by then? If not, would the use by date be extended again? Or would the slot be taken off VA and handed to QF (only other Aus airline capable of doing it)?

Conceptually, any Australian airline could apply, but given the need to fly it with a widebody aircraft (A321 XLR not withstanding) and that IASC will take capacity into account, unless Virgin bring in some widebody aircraft I don't see any other alternative.

QF's planned configuration was daily SYD-HND and daily MEL-HND, while keeping daily BNE-NRT. They would love to use the third daily for BNE-HND instead of BNE-NRT. All while keeping Jetstar at NRT (CNS-NRT and OOL-NRT). I wouldn't be surprised to see a MEL/SYD/BNE-NRT pop up on Jetstar at some point.

evanb wrote:

myw168051 wrote:

Long time lurker, first time poster here. Just curious to see what people think about VA’s Haneda slot?

I seem to recall that both QF and VA have to use their Haneda slots to the full extent by the end of OCT2022? Do you think VA would have the plane ready to fly that route by then? If not, would the use by date be extended again? Or would the slot be taken off VA and handed to QF (only other Aus airline capable of doing it)?

Conceptually, any Australian airline could apply, but given the need to fly it with a widebody aircraft (A321 XLR not withstanding) and that IASC will take capacity into account, unless Virgin bring in some widebody aircraft I don't see any other alternative.

QF's planned configuration was daily SYD-HND and daily MEL-HND, while keeping daily BNE-NRT. They would love to use the third daily for BNE-HND instead of BNE-NRT. All while keeping Jetstar at NRT (CNS-NRT and OOL-NRT). I wouldn't be surprised to see a MEL/SYD/BNE-NRT pop up on Jetstar at some point.

Unless VA can prove that they are planing on operating the route, then it should be handed back. But it also begs the question with Japan still restricting visitors, are they willing to be a little more lenient and extend.

zkncj wrote:

Does anyone know with VA returning to DPS, if there 10pm departures back to the East Coast.

What the meal service in J is? eg is it an breakfast before arrival back into Australia? Or diner on departure.

DPS-MEL on VA departs just after 10pm. DPS-SYD/BNE departures on VA are from 11pm onwards.

Not sure about J service however whether if they provide Light Supper and Breakfast (or just Breakfast).

SCFlyer wrote:

There has been speculation across the internet on the other travel sites/forums that VA may operate CNS-GUM-HND (including 5th freedoms between GUM-HND) with the existing VAi 738s to keep the slot, but at this stage that is entirely speculation and may likely not happen.

CNS-GUM might work with the new UA tie up.

anstar wrote:

SCFlyer wrote:

There has been speculation across the internet on the other travel sites/forums that VA may operate CNS-GUM-HND (including 5th freedoms between GUM-HND) with the existing VAi 738s to keep the slot, but at this stage that is entirely speculation and may likely not happen.

CNS-GUM might work with the new UA tie up.

Could be an route for the new 73M-8s comming?

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

qf2048 wrote:

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

The slot needs to be used by an Australian carrier, I would assume JL would move its MEL service to HND before considering BNE from HND.

kriskim wrote:

qf2048 wrote:

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

The slot needs to be used by an Australian carrier, I would assume JL would move its MEL service to HND before considering BNE from HND.

Not an actually suggestion more testing waters - what if VA wetlease an aircraft from NH? They could do a block codeshare agreement? VA flight number operated by NH?

smi0006 wrote:

kriskim wrote:

qf2048 wrote:

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

The slot needs to be used by an Australian carrier, I would assume JL would move its MEL service to HND before considering BNE from HND.

Not an actually suggestion more testing waters - what if VA wetlease an aircraft from NH? They could do a block codeshare agreement? VA flight number operated by NH?

Has to be operated by an Australian carrier and AOC. Wet-lease by another airline and their colours is not allowed.

Either VA has to use it, even if it means supposedly applying to modify the rights to use one of their existing VAi-registered 737-800s via the rumoured GUM stop, or letting the HND rights lapse and return to IASC by the due date, and thus putting it out for tender (again) for QF to bid on.

kriskim wrote:

qf2048 wrote:

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

The slot needs to be used by an Australian carrier, I would assume JL would move its MEL service to HND before considering BNE from HND.

Not an actually suggestion more testing waters - what if VA wetlease an aircraft from NH? They could do a block codeshare agreement? VA flight number operated by NH?

SCFlyer wrote:

myw168051 wrote:

Long time lurker, first time poster here. Just curious to see what people think about VA’s Haneda slot?

I seem to recall that both QF and VA have to use their Haneda slots to the full extent by the end of OCT2022? Do you think VA would have the plane ready to fly that route by then? If not, would the use by date be extended again? Or would the slot be taken off VA and handed to QF (only other Aus airline capable of doing it)?

Cheers.

HND Slot gets handed back to the IATA and IATA puts it out to tender again. Basically QF will have to apply for it if VA does not use it by October 2022.

There has been speculation across the internet on the other travel sites/forums that VA may operate CNS-GUM-HND (including 5th freedoms between GUM-HND) with the existing VAi 738s to keep the slot, but at this stage that is entirely speculation and may likely not happen.

I think this was dreamed up by an enthusiast rather than a serious proposal, but evanb is correct that there definitely cannot be 5th freedom on GUM-HND.

NRT maybe, depending on the language in the broader Australia-Japan ASA (which I haven’t bothered to read) but Haneda slots have very strict conditions that are totally seperate to the standard ASA.

qf2048 wrote:

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

JAL don’t have enough Haneda slots. Slots can’t be used at will, the process for Japanese carriers is the same as international carriers. There are 2 0600-2200 slots allocated for Australia, in addition to the existing 2200-0600 slot.

QF and NH had the existing nighttime slots, both used for HND-SYD since 2015.

For the additional slots from 2020, Japan allocated one each fo NH and JL. NH proposed making Sydney double daily while JL moved their existing NRT-SYD flight across.

qf2048 wrote:

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

JAL don’t have enough Haneda slots. Slots can’t be used at will, the process for Japanese carriers is the same as international carriers. There are 2 0600-2200 slots allocated for Australia, in addition to the existing 2200-0600 slot.

QF and NH had the existing nighttime slots, both used for HND-SYD since 2015.

For the additional slots from 2020, Japan allocated one each fo NH and JL. NH proposed making Sydney double daily while JL moved their existing NRT-SYD flight across.

qf2048 wrote:

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

JAL don’t have enough Haneda slots. Slots can’t be used at will, the process for Japanese carriers is the same as international carriers. There are 2 0600-2200 slots allocated for Australia, in addition to the existing 2200-0600 slot.

QF and NH had the existing nighttime slots, both used for HND-SYD since 2015.

For the additional slots from 2020, Japan allocated one each fo NH and JL. NH proposed making Sydney double daily while JL moved their existing NRT-SYD flight across.

On the back of applying for rights to fly between Australia and Samoa, Qantas has now applied to operate to the neighbouring Pacific Islands of Tonga.....

Could we see Qantas now pushing further into the South Pacific with flights to the Cook Islands and Tahiti?

QANTAS
"The New Spirit Of The Pacific"

qf2048 wrote:

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

ACCC would probably step in and prevent a QF codeshare on this given its the top two carriers cooperating.

QuayWeeAir wrote:

On the back of applying for rights to fly between Australia and Samoa, Qantas has now applied to operate to the neighbouring Pacific Islands of Tonga.....

Could we see Qantas now pushing further into the South Pacific with flights to the Cook Islands and Tahiti?

QANTAS
"The New Spirit Of The Pacific"

PPT and RAR would be bit of a harder push from the East Coast of Australia, with both being outside of 738 range. Although maybe once QF gets its A321XLRs? it could be more of a option.

Pre-Covid NZ did a SYD-RAR-SYD service weekly with a 789.

zkncj wrote:

QuayWeeAir wrote:

On the back of applying for rights to fly between Australia and Samoa, Qantas has now applied to operate to the neighbouring Pacific Islands of Tonga.....

Could we see Qantas now pushing further into the South Pacific with flights to the Cook Islands and Tahiti?

QANTAS
"The New Spirit Of The Pacific"

PPT and RAR would be bit of a harder push from the East Coast of Australia, with both being outside of 738 range. Although maybe once QF gets its A321XLRs? it could be more of a option.

Pre-Covid NZ did a SYD-RAR-SYD service weekly with a 789.

Wouldn’t surprise me with the Australian government’s new foreign policy focus on the pacific that QF aren’t expecting an uptick in traffic to the islands maybe from their government corporate travel contracts? I’d image most traffic goes via-AKL so maybe cause some minor impact to NZ - but completion can only be good! Greater non-stop connectivity can only be good in the PI! Is TBU from SYD or BNE? Surprised these aren’t JQ routes, but could be linked to corporate contracts?

With Albo mending the relationship with France - does make me wonder about PPT, and CDG also, and upticks in government traffic and connections. However in current economic times a luxury trip to PPT will be out of reach for many, so traffic may go through AKL for those who can continue to afford it.

Side note - doe QF 738 crew layover in NAN or DPS? Or do they do a return and come straight home?

kriskim wrote:

Unless VA can prove that they are planing on operating the route, then it should be handed back. But it also begs the question with Japan still restricting visitors, are they willing to be a little more lenient and extend.

One what grounds, should QF be required to do the same? Generally, rights can be challenges. QF would find it difficult to challenge Virgin's allocation since they themselves are not utilizing their own.

VA don't have to prove anything. They were given a daily frequency that they can operate between any point in Australia and Haneda at specific arrival and departure times. These rights are valid for 5 years from the original allocation on 29 October 2019. The original IASC decision required them to be "utilised from no later than 29 March 2020 or from such other date approved by the Commission". Due to COVID-19 related travel disruptions, on the request of Virgin, IASC delayed this several times such now that the current extension is valid until 29 October 2022. It is likely that this will be granted once again, maybe 6 months. QF received the same. But at some point both will have to use them by whatever deadline IASC give and don't extend. Until QF are operating twice daily into HND, there will be no pressure on IASC to act on Virgin.

However, the challenge for Virgin will become when the rights come up again in 2024. At that point, IASC will evaluate the market and unless they are operating at the capacity that they indicated in their initial application (i.e. a daily A330), they will likely lose those rights. It will be a straightforward case for QF at that point as long as they are operating both daily frequencies.

smi0006 wrote:

Wouldn’t surprise me with the Australian government’s new foreign policy focus on the pacific that QF aren’t expecting an uptick in traffic to the islands maybe from their government corporate travel contracts? I’d image most traffic goes via-AKL so maybe cause some minor impact to NZ - but completion can only be good! Greater non-stop connectivity can only be good in the PI! Is TBU from SYD or BNE? Surprised these aren’t JQ routes, but could be linked to corporate contracts?

Many of these rights are at the group level, so allow Qantas to have the flights operated by Qantas mainline or Jetstar. The specific IASC wording is:

"the capacity may be utilised by Qantas or another Australian carrier which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Qantas; and the capacity may be used by Qantas to provide joint services with any wholly-owned subsidiary and by any wholly-owned subsidiary of the Qantas Group to provide joint services with Qantas."

qf2220 wrote:

qf2048 wrote:

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

ACCC would probably step in and prevent a QF codeshare on this given its the top two carriers cooperating.

IASC's decision to allocate QF the two daily frequency explicitly doesn't allow QF to codeshare with JL on this specific route. Form the decision: "Qantas is not permitted to utilise the capacity to provide code share or joint services with another carrier or any other person unless approved in writing by the Commission." I would assume that QF will argue for this in 2024 when the rights are reassessed.

evanb wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

Wouldn’t surprise me with the Australian government’s new foreign policy focus on the pacific that QF aren’t expecting an uptick in traffic to the islands maybe from their government corporate travel contracts? I’d image most traffic goes via-AKL so maybe cause some minor impact to NZ - but completion can only be good! Greater non-stop connectivity can only be good in the PI! Is TBU from SYD or BNE? Surprised these aren’t JQ routes, but could be linked to corporate contracts?

Many of these rights are at the group level, so allow Qantas to have the flights operated by Qantas mainline or Jetstar. The specific IASC wording is:

"the capacity may be utilised by Qantas or another Australian carrier which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Qantas; and the capacity may be used by Qantas to provide joint services with any wholly-owned subsidiary and by any wholly-owned subsidiary of the Qantas Group to provide joint services with Qantas."

Ahh interesting- wasn’t aware of that! Seems like good candidates for the JQ-321LR ? Although alot of capacity, payload could help. These island flights have a special weight allowance for pax due to their higher average weight, and also baggage is huge. A few empty seats I’m sure would easily be compensated for with excess/ancillary baggage charges and cargo!

evanb wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

qf2048 wrote:

If QF can't get the HND slot because VA use it, would JL be aloud to operate HND-BNE solely, or even better with a QF codeshare?
I'd just like a Qantas Group or Oneworld option for a daytime flight from Tokyo to Australia.

ACCC would probably step in and prevent a QF codeshare on this given its the top two carriers cooperating.

IASC's decision to allocate QF the two daily frequency explicitly doesn't allow QF to codeshare with JL on this specific route. Form the decision: "Qantas is not permitted to utilise the capacity to provide code share or joint services with another carrier or any other person unless approved in writing by the Commission." I would assume that QF will argue for this in 2024 when the rights are reassessed.

Thanks for this additional information. I suspect that IASC would talk to ACCC on a regular basis when allocating route rights.

zkncj wrote:

QuayWeeAir wrote:

On the back of applying for rights to fly between Australia and Samoa, Qantas has now applied to operate to the neighbouring Pacific Islands of Tonga.....

Could we see Qantas now pushing further into the South Pacific with flights to the Cook Islands and Tahiti?

QANTAS
"The New Spirit Of The Pacific"

PPT and RAR would be bit of a harder push from the East Coast of Australia, with both being outside of 738 range. Although maybe once QF gets its A321XLRs? it could be more of a option.

Pre-Covid NZ did a SYD-RAR-SYD service weekly with a 789.

Qantas could easily start a weekly SYD-RAR service using a 330. Especially now that Air NZ has not returned it's weekly 787 service the market is left open.

NZ516 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

QuayWeeAir wrote:

On the back of applying for rights to fly between Australia and Samoa, Qantas has now applied to operate to the neighbouring Pacific Islands of Tonga.....

Could we see Qantas now pushing further into the South Pacific with flights to the Cook Islands and Tahiti?

QANTAS
"The New Spirit Of The Pacific"

PPT and RAR would be bit of a harder push from the East Coast of Australia, with both being outside of 738 range. Although maybe once QF gets its A321XLRs? it could be more of a option.

Pre-Covid NZ did a SYD-RAR-SYD service weekly with a 789.

Qantas could easily start a weekly SYD-RAR service using a 330. Especially now that Air NZ has not returned it's weekly 787 service the market is left open.

Crew rest could be a problem? QF generally have better uses for an A330 although maybe in the weekend they have spare capacity?

Emirates A380 that arrived into BNE yesterday has sustained damaged to the fuselage from a tire, apparently it happened on departure from DXB



https://twitter.com/aviationbrk/status/ ... 9SoXkKmUFw

NZ516 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

QuayWeeAir wrote:

On the back of applying for rights to fly between Australia and Samoa, Qantas has now applied to operate to the neighbouring Pacific Islands of Tonga.....

Could we see Qantas now pushing further into the South Pacific with flights to the Cook Islands and Tahiti?

QANTAS
"The New Spirit Of The Pacific"

PPT and RAR would be bit of a harder push from the East Coast of Australia, with both being outside of 738 range. Although maybe once QF gets its A321XLRs? it could be more of a option.

Pre-Covid NZ did a SYD-RAR-SYD service weekly with a 789.

Qantas could easily start a weekly SYD-RAR service using a 330. Especially now that Air NZ has not returned it's weekly 787 service the market is left open.

Pull the ABS Transport statistics for that NZ SYD-RAR flight- no way will QF dedicate a weekly flight with that load factor unless the Cooks Govt. subsidises it and even then I doubt QF has the necessary available aircraft.

Question: is it common or even scheduled that VA’s DPS flights make a tech stop in DRW on the outbound? Just checked FR24 now and noticed VA93 (from MEL), VA63 (SYD) and VA49 (BNE) show they are being diverted to DRW. All in the air right now.

A350OZ wrote:

Question: is it common or even scheduled that VA’s DPS flights make a tech stop in DRW on the outbound? Just checked FR24 now and noticed VA93 (from MEL), VA63 (SYD) and VA49 (BNE) show they are being diverted to DRW. All in the air right now.

The tech stop in DRW is a temporary measure due to maintenance works in the region and the extra fuel is required just in case of diversion

https://www.escape.com.au/news/virgins- ... b1d3dc?amp

The DRW stop from SYD will end early next week

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220701-vajul22dps

qf789 wrote:

The tech stop in DRW is a temporary measure due to maintenance works in the region and the extra fuel is required just in case of diversion

https://www.escape.com.au/news/virgins- ... b1d3dc?amp

Virgin PR spin at its worst given QF are also flying 738's on the route and would also be facing the same issue around supposed "maintenance works and changes to operating hours at airports within the region" being the reason for the tech stop.

The reality is that the flights were oversold when they should have been capped, as was always the practice on VA flights to DPS prior.

smi0006 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

QuayWeeAir wrote:

On the back of applying for rights to fly between Australia and Samoa, Qantas has now applied to operate to the neighbouring Pacific Islands of Tonga.....

Could we see Qantas now pushing further into the South Pacific with flights to the Cook Islands and Tahiti?

QANTAS
"The New Spirit Of The Pacific"

PPT and RAR would be bit of a harder push from the East Coast of Australia, with both being outside of 738 range. Although maybe once QF gets its A321XLRs? it could be more of a option.

Pre-Covid NZ did a SYD-RAR-SYD service weekly with a 789.

Wouldn’t surprise me with the Australian government’s new foreign policy focus on the pacific that QF aren’t expecting an uptick in traffic to the islands maybe from their government corporate travel contracts? I’d image most traffic goes via-AKL so maybe cause some minor impact to NZ - but completion can only be good! Greater non-stop connectivity can only be good in the PI! Is TBU from SYD or BNE? Surprised these aren’t JQ routes, but could be linked to corporate contracts?

With Albo mending the relationship with France - does make me wonder about PPT, and CDG also, and upticks in government traffic and connections. However in current economic times a luxury trip to PPT will be out of reach for many, so traffic may go through AKL for those who can continue to afford it.

Side note - doe QF 738 crew layover in NAN or DPS? Or do they do a return and come straight home?

Hi there, in answer to your question about the crew layovers. On the NAN flights, the crew do a return; on the DPS flights, they layover.

openskies88 wrote:

qf789 wrote:

The tech stop in DRW is a temporary measure due to maintenance works in the region and the extra fuel is required just in case of diversion

https://www.escape.com.au/news/virgins- ... b1d3dc?amp

Virgin PR spin at its worst given QF are also flying 738's on the route and would also be facing the same issue around supposed "maintenance works and changes to operating hours at airports within the region" being the reason for the tech stop.

The reality is that the flights were oversold when they should have been capped, as was always the practice on VA flights to DPS prior.

It was reported earlier that Qantas are flying the 738s load restricted from Australia to DPS. VA for whatever reason are choosing to sell those flights at capacity, leading to the fuel stop.

A number of Indonesian Airports either currently have restricted hours or are temporarily closed. Qantas chose to get around this by re-applying their pre-COVID methods of selling their East Coast-DPS flights with load restrictions.

Regarding Haneda slots, it's well known that they are very valuable and to ANA/JAL one pair of take off/landing slots can generate around 10 billion yen(A$100M) of yearly revenue.

So lossing that slot is like lossing a very valuable asset but in reality there's not much VA can do to keep it, at least for next 1 year.

eta unknown wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

PPT and RAR would be bit of a harder push from the East Coast of Australia, with both being outside of 738 range. Although maybe once QF gets its A321XLRs? it could be more of a option.

Pre-Covid NZ did a SYD-RAR-SYD service weekly with a 789.

Qantas could easily start a weekly SYD-RAR service using a 330. Especially now that Air NZ has not returned it's weekly 787 service the market is left open.

Pull the ABS Transport statistics for that NZ SYD-RAR flight- no way will QF dedicate a weekly flight with that load factor unless the Cooks Govt. subsidises it and even then I doubt QF has the necessary available aircraft.

A JQ SYD-AKL-RAR-AKL-SYD 788 run would probably make more sense. JQ does AKL-RAR already with an a320, which tends to be pretty full.

Some days NZ is sending 2x 789s and 1x 321N on AKL-RAR. There would be no doubt that JQ could fill a 788 on AKL-RAR.

zkncj wrote:

eta unknown wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Qantas could easily start a weekly SYD-RAR service using a 330. Especially now that Air NZ has not returned it's weekly 787 service the market is left open.

Pull the ABS Transport statistics for that NZ SYD-RAR flight- no way will QF dedicate a weekly flight with that load factor unless the Cooks Govt. subsidises it and even then I doubt QF has the necessary available aircraft.

A JQ SYD-AKL-RAR-AKL-SYD 788 run would probably make more sense. JQ does AKL-RAR already with an a320, which tends to be pretty full.

Some days NZ is sending 2x 789s and 1x 321N on AKL-RAR. There would be no doubt that JQ could fill a 788 on AKL-RAR.

The other thing with RAR (and I assume most PI islands) they are accommodation limited - at certain times of year demand maybe there, but accommodation isn't no point adding extra capacity. Between two carriers easier

SCFlyer wrote:

openskies88 wrote:

qf789 wrote:

The tech stop in DRW is a temporary measure due to maintenance works in the region and the extra fuel is required just in case of diversion

https://www.escape.com.au/news/virgins- ... b1d3dc?amp

Virgin PR spin at its worst given QF are also flying 738's on the route and would also be facing the same issue around supposed "maintenance works and changes to operating hours at airports within the region" being the reason for the tech stop.

The reality is that the flights were oversold when they should have been capped, as was always the practice on VA flights to DPS prior.

It was reported earlier that Qantas are flying the 738s load restricted from Australia to DPS. VA for whatever reason are choosing to sell those flights at capacity, leading to the fuel stop.

A number of Indonesian Airports either currently have restricted hours or are temporarily closed. Qantas chose to get around this by re-applying their pre-COVID methods of selling their East Coast-DPS flights with load restrictions.

Surely DPS, and NAN must be candidates for the first 321XLRs or VA-MAXs when they arrive! Or maybe by then demand will have returned, and QF will throw some 330s back at it.

zkncj wrote:

eta unknown wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Qantas could easily start a weekly SYD-RAR service using a 330. Especially now that Air NZ has not returned it's weekly 787 service the market is left open.

Pull the ABS Transport statistics for that NZ SYD-RAR flight- no way will QF dedicate a weekly flight with that load factor unless the Cooks Govt. subsidises it and even then I doubt QF has the necessary available aircraft.

A JQ SYD-AKL-RAR-AKL-SYD 788 run would probably make more sense. JQ does AKL-RAR already with an a320, which tends to be pretty full.

Some days NZ is sending 2x 789s and 1x 321N on AKL-RAR. There would be no doubt that JQ could fill a 788 on AKL-RAR.

As a through flight with connections from MEL/OOL to. Burning don’t know that JQ would use a 788 for RAR. Do the Australian carriers have a seat restriction to RAR? I think both JQ with an A320 and VA with a 738 ran 5 weekly pre covid?

NZ516 wrote:

Qantas could easily start a weekly SYD-RAR service using a 330. Especially now that Air NZ has not returned it's weekly 787 service the market is left open.

I'd say if SYD-RAR was to be operated by QF it would be on a JQ788;

SCFlyer wrote:

A number of Indonesian Airports either currently have restricted hours or are temporarily closed. Qantas chose to get around this by re-applying their pre-COVID methods of selling their East Coast-DPS flights with load restrictions.

No way a 738 (or A320) can operate east coast to DPS without weight restriction.. so if VA are selling full loads they know they will need to tech stop.

zkncj wrote:

eta unknown wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Qantas could easily start a weekly SYD-RAR service using a 330. Especially now that Air NZ has not returned it's weekly 787 service the market is left open.

Pull the ABS Transport statistics for that NZ SYD-RAR flight- no way will QF dedicate a weekly flight with that load factor unless the Cooks Govt. subsidises it and even then I doubt QF has the necessary available aircraft.

A JQ SYD-AKL-RAR-AKL-SYD 788 run would probably make more sense. JQ does AKL-RAR already with an a320, which tends to be pretty full.

Some days NZ is sending 2x 789s and 1x 321N on AKL-RAR. There would be no doubt that JQ could fill a 788 on AKL-RAR.

If JQ were to operate a 788 to RAR, it would be a non-stop from SYD. There is no benefit if it has to go via AKL. RAR typically has had some awful connection times for Australians when forced to go via AKL. A non-stop departing SYD around breakfast time would be an attractive option as the return flight would depart RAR around 6PM and comfortably arrive back into SYD before curfew.

The Digital Passenger Declaration (DPD) app has been shelved for now.

https://www.innovationaus.com/digital-p ... g-reviews/

“needs a lot more work to make it user friendly”

Having had to use it twice since introduced and once using Australia Travel Declaration which is what DPD replaced, I can honestly say the above quote pretty much sums it up. I think there's a mile of issues to be sorted before paper based arrival declaration cards are discontinued.

OffTheRails wrote:

The Digital Passenger Declaration (DPD) app has been shelved for now.

https://www.innovationaus.com/digital-p ... g-reviews/

“needs a lot more work to make it user friendly”

Having had to use it twice since introduced and once using Australia Travel Declaration which is what DPD replaced, I can honestly say the above quote pretty much sums it up. I think there's a mile of issues to be sorted before paper based arrival declaration cards are discontinued.

Yes, it didn't work well. There were some classic faults that I don't understand how Accenture got so wrong. For example, why do Australian residents need to scan a vaccination certificate since your passport is already tied to your international vaccination certificate? Why do you need to take a photo of your passport page given you also scan the built-in chip? Surely one or the other is sufficient. Why doesn't it remember basic details? I have returned to Australia 4 times this year and have to re-enter the same basic details each month; that is daft.

The manual card did need replacing. For some reason, they have never reformatted it for years despite it never having enough space for names longer than 15 characters or most email addresses...go figure!! It is just that, once again, Australia has decided it knows best and started from scratch rather than just copying or buying someone else's solution.