Duke91 wrote:

So they expect the max to be grounded for longer it seems.

Boeing Co.’s 737 Max jets may resume commercial flights in China by the end of this year or early 2022, the nation’s Civil Aviation Administration said, a day after issuing an airworthiness directive that paved the way for the single-aisle workhorse to return to the Chinese skies after an almost three-year grounding.

China will also start introducing new Max aircraft around the same time, the agency said during a briefing Friday, marking a key moment for the U.S. planemaker, which has already convinced most major global regulators about the jet’s safety following extensive fixes.

scbriml wrote:

Order now confirmed by Airbus

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/pres ... s-in-china

Polot wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Order now confirmed by Airbus

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/pres ... s-in-china

“Once the relevant criteria are met, these orders will enter the backlog.”

So they are not all firm yet?

The whole PR is filled with atypical wording. Guess things need to wait for a state visit.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Hmmm.... might the lack of Boeing orders and possible continuing Chinese MAX issues be an attempt a creating a wedge issue between NATO members?

Think of all those jobs in Europe if they replace every Boeing aircraft in the PRC. Nah can't be. They've never used aircraft orders for political purposes before.

"Nato leaders voice concern about threat China poses to world order for first time"

"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/30/nato-leaders-voice-concern-about-threat-china-poses-to-world-order-for-first-time

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Hmmm.... might the lack of Boeing orders and possible continuing Chinese MAX issues be an attempt a creating a wedge issue between NATO members?

Think of all those jobs in Europe if they replace every Boeing aircraft in the PRC. Nah can't be. They've never used aircraft orders for political purposes before.

ReverseFlow wrote:

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Hmmm.... might the lack of Boeing orders and possible continuing Chinese MAX issues be an attempt a creating a wedge issue between NATO members?

Think of all those jobs in Europe if they replace every Boeing aircraft in the PRC. Nah can't be. They've never used aircraft orders for political purposes before.

"Nato leaders voice concern about threat China poses to world order for first time"

"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/30/nato-leaders-voice-concern-about-threat-china-poses-to-world-order-for-first-time

I wonder how many of them are going to be built in Tianjin though. So money in Airbus pockets but production in China.

ReverseFlow wrote:

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Hmmm.... might the lack of Boeing orders and possible continuing Chinese MAX issues be an attempt a creating a wedge issue between NATO members?

Think of all those jobs in Europe if they replace every Boeing aircraft in the PRC. Nah can't be. They've never used aircraft orders for political purposes before.

"Nato leaders voice concern about threat China poses to world order for first time"

"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/30/nato-leaders-voice-concern-about-threat-china-poses-to-world-order-for-first-time

I wonder how many of them are going to be built in Tianjin though. So money in Airbus pockets but production in China.

scbriml wrote:

ReverseFlow wrote:

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Hmmm.... might the lack of Boeing orders and possible continuing Chinese MAX issues be an attempt a creating a wedge issue between NATO members?

Think of all those jobs in Europe if they replace every Boeing aircraft in the PRC. Nah can't be. They've never used aircraft orders for political purposes before.

"Nato leaders voice concern about threat China poses to world order for first time"

"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/30/nato-leaders-voice-concern-about-threat-china-poses-to-world-order-for-first-time

I wonder how many of them are going to be built in Tianjin though. So money in Airbus pockets but production in China.

Tianjin can't build enough to meet these orders in the timelines given. It also shouldn't be forgotten that Tianjin is a FAL - final assembly only. All the fuselages & wings, etc are still manufactured in Europe and then sent to China.

scbriml wrote:

ReverseFlow wrote:

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Hmmm.... might the lack of Boeing orders and possible continuing Chinese MAX issues be an attempt a creating a wedge issue between NATO members?

Think of all those jobs in Europe if they replace every Boeing aircraft in the PRC. Nah can't be. They've never used aircraft orders for political purposes before.

"Nato leaders voice concern about threat China poses to world order for first time"

"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/30/nato-leaders-voice-concern-about-threat-china-poses-to-world-order-for-first-time

I wonder how many of them are going to be built in Tianjin though. So money in Airbus pockets but production in China.

Tianjin can't build enough to meet these orders in the timelines given. It also shouldn't be forgotten that Tianjin is a FAL - final assembly only. All the fuselages & wings, etc are still manufactured in Europe and then sent to China.

MLIAA wrote:

Interesting that China doesn’t seem to be throwing its weight behind the C919, and is instead placing huge Airbus orders. C919 seems close to certification, unless I’m missing something?

Avgeek21 wrote:

Not a single widebody. Would that be a slice of the cake for Boeing? I'm not expecting the MAX in China for a loooong time going forward. Nor in Russia for that matter.

mdavies06 wrote:

Given that the order was first made in 2019 at the height of the MAX crisis, there was probably a public image related need in China to avoid ordering the MAX in 2019, so I'd expect an order to go to Boeing too now that MAX has returned to flying, plus some widebodies too. The trade tariff negotiations with the Biden administration will contains requests which will point towards a potential future Boeing order. In short, its just political posturing.

Heavierthanair wrote:

The Tianjin A320 assembly line also exclusively supplies Chinese carries

AirAsia has taken delivery of the first A320neo assembled at the Airbus Final Assembly Line Asia (FALA) at a dedicated ceremony in Tianjin, China. The aircraft, powered by CFM LEAP-1A engines, seats comfortably 186 passengers and is equipped with the innovative Space-Flex cabin.

AirAsia is the largest airline customer of the A320 Family with orders for 578 aircraft. These include 404 A320neo Family aircraft.

Aireen Omar, AirAsia Berhad Chief Executive Officer said: “We are very proud to receive the first Airbus A320neo fully assembled in Tianjin, China and we would like to congratulate Airbus, as well as the Chinese Government for achieving yet another milestone. China is today one of the world’s most important markets for aviation, and we are honoured to be part of the development and rapid growth of China’s civil aviation. We are certainly proud to take delivery of this aircraft fully assembled in Tianjin and have this historic aircraft as part of our fleet”.

tlecam wrote:

Wow. Big order and congrats airbus.

Interesting that the 320 was the model they ordered; I’d have guessed the 321 just given the tendency lately for airlines to order the larger model.

scbriml wrote:

Heavierthanair wrote:

The Tianjin A320 assembly line also exclusively supplies Chinese carries

Tianjin A320s have been delivered to non-Chinese airlines since 2017, but I don't know how many.

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/pres ... o-air-asia

AirAsia has taken delivery of the first A320neo assembled at the Airbus Final Assembly Line Asia (FALA) at a dedicated ceremony in Tianjin, China. The aircraft, powered by CFM LEAP-1A engines, seats comfortably 186 passengers and is equipped with the innovative Space-Flex cabin.

AirAsia is the largest airline customer of the A320 Family with orders for 578 aircraft. These include 404 A320neo Family aircraft.

Aireen Omar, AirAsia Berhad Chief Executive Officer said: “We are very proud to receive the first Airbus A320neo fully assembled in Tianjin, China and we would like to congratulate Airbus, as well as the Chinese Government for achieving yet another milestone. China is today one of the world’s most important markets for aviation, and we are honoured to be part of the development and rapid growth of China’s civil aviation. We are certainly proud to take delivery of this aircraft fully assembled in Tianjin and have this historic aircraft as part of our fleet”.

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

Avgeek21 wrote:

Not a single widebody. Would that be a slice of the cake for Boeing? I'm not expecting the MAX in China for a loooong time going forward. Nor in Russia for that matter.

There are over 60 737MAX that have been delivered to Chinese operators so far. There have been 737 MAX flight tests in China, but given the reduced demand because of the Covid surge and Chinese lockdowns, airlines haven’t been in a hurry to fly the 737 MAX yet. I’m not so sure more orders are a loooong time away

mdavies06 wrote:

The ordering entities in this case is CAAC, and as CAAC controls nearly all of China's commercial airlines, the order is just part of a scheme to balance the trade deficit that EU is having against China, and a political gesture as well as commercial. Once President XI resumes international trip, watch out for today's order to be 'reannounced' again with more details when he next meet up with Scholz or Macron.
Given that the order was first made in 2019 at the height of the MAX crisis, there was probably a public image related need in China to avoid ordering the MAX in 2019, so I'd expect an order to go to Boeing too now that MAX has returned to flying, plus some widebodies too. The trade tariff negotiations with the Biden administration will contains requests which will point towards a potential future Boeing order. In short, its just political posturing.

hongkongflyer wrote:

The recent MU738 crash delayed to progress

Avatar2go wrote:

hongkongflyer wrote:

The recent MU738 crash delayed to progress

That crash did not involve a MAX, and there is no evidence of a defect in the aircraft or involvement by Boeing. It's been quietly hushed by the Chinese government, so don't think it plays a role in whatever is happening with the MAX in China.

FluidFlow wrote:

I dont want to go too much into politics, as this does not belong here, but the way aircraft aquisition goes in China it is always decided at a political level. Hence the MAX (and other Boeing products) are used as leverage from the chinese government. Current tensions in the South China Sea and Taiwan as well as certain decisions from the previous US government have put a strain on US-China relations. Now china can use Boeing exports as a bargaining chip. Airbus stands at the moment in a better light as the EU is not so invested in SEA politics. This can change again but for now Boeing has to climb a very steep hill to make anything happen in China. I would not even be surprised to see A339s in China at one point just because of politics and to show the US (and Boeing) what China is willing to do.

FluidFlow wrote:

I dont want to go too much into politics, as this does not belong here, but the way aircraft aquisition goes in China it is always decided at a political level. Hence the MAX (and other Boeing products) are used as leverage from the chinese government. Current tensions in the South China Sea and Taiwan as well as certain decisions from the previous US government have put a strain on US-China relations. Now china can use Boeing exports as a bargaining chip. Airbus stands at the moment in a better light as the EU is not so invested in SEA politics. This can change again but for now Boeing has to climb a very steep hill to make anything happen in China. I would not even be surprised to see A339s in China at one point just because of politics and to show the US (and Boeing) what China is willing to do.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

What is CPU?

JonesNL wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

I dont want to go too much into politics, as this does not belong here, but the way aircraft aquisition goes in China it is always decided at a political level. Hence the MAX (and other Boeing products) are used as leverage from the chinese government. Current tensions in the South China Sea and Taiwan as well as certain decisions from the previous US government have put a strain on US-China relations. Now china can use Boeing exports as a bargaining chip. Airbus stands at the moment in a better light as the EU is not so invested in SEA politics. This can change again but for now Boeing has to climb a very steep hill to make anything happen in China. I would not even be surprised to see A339s in China at one point just because of politics and to show the US (and Boeing) what China is willing to do.

There is also the A330n line in China, which helps as a bargaining chip for orders in the future. Boeing has a limited presence in China for their WB's...

accentra wrote:

FlightGlobal is running an article covering Boeing's response to this Airbus order. It's behind a paywall at:

https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/ ... 64.article

But it essentially quotes Boeing as being 'dismayed' at the order and blaming it on geopolitical considerations, while raising the spectre that this kind of thing will threaten US domestic jobs.

Not sure I can recall this kind of reaction before? Looks like this one has really stung Boeing? Possible concerns about what this actually means for the Chinese Max orders?

BigAppleCoder wrote:

There's no doubt that the PRC wanted to send a message to the Boeing and USA that the good times are over. Check out the tone from this article from the Global Times of China:

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202207/1269678.shtml