FedEx pilots are demanding a new contract

FLALEFTY · Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:33 pm

With competitor UPS Airlines finalizing a new & better pilot contract, the pilots at FedEx are getting restless & want a new & better contract, too. Apparently negotiations for a new pilot contract were started last year with a promise of an agreement back in May of this year. Now, with this past due date getting even more delayed, the FedEx pilots have started picketing to draw attention to this matter.

The article also surveys recent pilot contract proposals by United and American. And with Delta pilots threatening a strike over delays in their pilot contract negotiations, it looks like we will be in for an interesting rest of the year in airline labor relations.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/fedex ... -contracts

32andBelow · Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:08 pm

Where does a cargo pilot picket? In front of the cargo office?

kiowa · Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:33 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Where does a cargo pilot picket? In front of the cargo office?

Corporate headquarters? Like the other labor groups, people do not care unless it affects them directly. Until my package is late/ my flight is cancelled it does not make a difference to anyone. No one is saying"oh those poor pilots are picketing, they must be underpaid and overworked".

32andBelow · Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:34 pm

kiowa wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Where does a cargo pilot picket? In front of the cargo office?

Corporate headquarters? Like the other labor groups, people do not care unless it affects them directly. Until my package is late/ my flight is cancelled it does not make a difference to anyone. No one is saying"oh those poor pilots are picketing, they must be underpaid and overworked".

Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

777luver · Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:46 pm

32andBelow wrote:
kiowa wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Where does a cargo pilot picket? In front of the cargo office?

Corporate headquarters? Like the other labor groups, people do not care unless it affects them directly. Until my package is late/ my flight is cancelled it does not make a difference to anyone. No one is saying"oh those poor pilots are picketing, they must be underpaid and overworked".

Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

FedEx pilots make that much money!?

FlapOperator · Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:51 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Its not so much for the public but as a legal mechanism for later negotiations and signal to the company that the pilot force is ready for a new contract and management has been sending mixed signals regarding their desire to fruitfully negotiate.

Not every Fedex Pilot is making half a million, just like every doctor isn't making 500K either.

Its a hard job...I've got friends there, and despite the high pay and retirement, the job isn't for me. The schedules are grueling, the pilots have faced hotel lockdowns for 48-96 hours at a time, invasive covid testing, sub-quality food, among other quality of life challenges inherent in freight flying, like spending nearly the entirety of your work life on the back side of the clock. The pilots provide LOTS of value added to an immensely profitable company.

GalaxyFlyer · Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:40 pm

777luver wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
kiowa wrote:

Corporate headquarters? Like the other labor groups, people do not care unless it affects them directly. Until my package is late/ my flight is cancelled it does not make a difference to anyone. No one is saying"oh those poor pilots are picketing, they must be underpaid and overworked".

Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

FedEx pilots make that much money!?

A few have beat 7 figures due to the COVID flying. $500,000 is pretty normal for captains.

I have about six former colleagues flying at FDX, they’re very happy with their QOL. The lockdowns in Asia and Oz were pretty nasty, though. Most fly domestic or EU and still clock $400,000+

FLALEFTY · Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:49 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Its not so much for the public but as a legal mechanism for later negotiations and signal to the company that the pilot force is ready for a new contract and management has been sending mixed signals regarding their desire to fruitfully negotiate.

Not every Fedex Pilot is making half a million, just like every doctor isn't making 500K either.

Its a hard job...I've got friends there, and despite the high pay and retirement, the job isn't for me. The schedules are grueling, the pilots have faced hotel lockdowns for 48-96 hours at a time, invasive covid testing, sub-quality food, among other quality of life challenges inherent in freight flying, like spending nearly the entirety of your work life on the back side of the clock. The pilots provide LOTS of value added to an immensely profitable company.

/\ This.

And to expand a little bit, FedEx and UPS used the pandemic to book record profits. Meanwhile, their pilots faced serious QOL issues being quarantined in substandard Chinese government-run hotels after flying trips to China. The food provided in the lockdown hotels looked awful, too.

scbriml · Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:59 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Its not so much for the public but as a legal mechanism for later negotiations and signal to the company that the pilot force is ready for a new contract and management has been sending mixed signals regarding their desire to fruitfully negotiate.

Not every Fedex Pilot is making half a million, just like every doctor isn't making 500K either.

Its a hard job...I've got friends there, and despite the high pay and retirement, the job isn't for me. The schedules are grueling, the pilots have faced hotel lockdowns for 48-96 hours at a time, invasive covid testing, sub-quality food, among other quality of life challenges inherent in freight flying, like spending nearly the entirety of your work life on the back side of the clock. The pilots provide LOTS of value added to an immensely profitable company.

/\ This.

And to expand a little bit, FedEx and UPS used the pandemic to book record profits. Meanwhile, their pilots faced serious QOL issues being quarantined in substandard Chinese government-run hotels after flying trips to China. The food provided in the lockdown hotels looked awful, too.

Yeah, it must suck being forced to work for FedEx. Oh wait...

BHRN · Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:37 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Its not so much for the public but as a legal mechanism for later negotiations and signal to the company that the pilot force is ready for a new contract and management has been sending mixed signals regarding their desire to fruitfully negotiate.

Not every Fedex Pilot is making half a million, just like every doctor isn't making 500K either.

Its a hard job...I've got friends there, and despite the high pay and retirement, the job isn't for me. The schedules are grueling, the pilots have faced hotel lockdowns for 48-96 hours at a time, invasive covid testing, sub-quality food, among other quality of life challenges inherent in freight flying, like spending nearly the entirety of your work life on the back side of the clock. The pilots provide LOTS of value added to an immensely profitable company.

/\ This.

And to expand a little bit, FedEx and UPS used the pandemic to book record profits. Meanwhile, their pilots faced serious QOL issues being quarantined in substandard Chinese government-run hotels after flying trips to China. The food provided in the lockdown hotels looked awful, too.

With the exception of CAN, Fedex hasn't layover their crews in China for a long time already.

bluecrew · Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:08 am

scbriml wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:

Its not so much for the public but as a legal mechanism for later negotiations and signal to the company that the pilot force is ready for a new contract and management has been sending mixed signals regarding their desire to fruitfully negotiate.

Not every Fedex Pilot is making half a million, just like every doctor isn't making 500K either.

Its a hard job...I've got friends there, and despite the high pay and retirement, the job isn't for me. The schedules are grueling, the pilots have faced hotel lockdowns for 48-96 hours at a time, invasive covid testing, sub-quality food, among other quality of life challenges inherent in freight flying, like spending nearly the entirety of your work life on the back side of the clock. The pilots provide LOTS of value added to an immensely profitable company.

/\ This.

And to expand a little bit, FedEx and UPS used the pandemic to book record profits. Meanwhile, their pilots faced serious QOL issues being quarantined in substandard Chinese government-run hotels after flying trips to China. The food provided in the lockdown hotels looked awful, too.

Yeah, it must suck being forced to work for FedEx. Oh wait...

The freight guys deserve what they're paid.

Tons of back of the clock flying, 10-14 day trip rotations, sometimes terrible hotels in cities without anything better, it's a completely different world than being an airline driver, complaining about an 11 hour layover in a Hilton Garden Inn in Rochester on a 3 day trip.

910A · Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:13 am

32andBelow wrote:
Where does a cargo pilot picket? In front of the cargo office?

A group of pilots picketed in front of the FedEx Express Air Operations Center in Memphis, Tennessee

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/fedex ... -contracts

SkyVoice · Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:08 am

bluecrew wrote:
The freight guys deserve what they're paid.

I agree. What is the status of the pilots' contracts at the USA's other freight carriers, such as DHL and the airlines that fly for Amazon?

DiamondFlyer · Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:14 pm

SkyVoice wrote:
bluecrew wrote:
The freight guys deserve what they're paid.

I agree. What is the status of the pilots' contracts at the USA's other freight carriers, such as DHL and the airlines that fly for Amazon?

DHL is an airline in the US, they use contractors just like Amazon. Both brands are not career places to work, they’re akin to the regionals. If one carrier won’t do what they’re told, DHL/Amazon simply take the planes to another. Race to the bottom

bluecrew · Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:17 pm

SkyVoice wrote:
bluecrew wrote:
The freight guys deserve what they're paid.

I agree. What is the status of the pilots' contracts at the USA's other freight carriers, such as DHL and the airlines that fly for Amazon?

I'm not sure of the specifics, but that would be Atlas and SunCountry, Swift and Mesa for DHL.

You don't want to work for Mesa. Those guys look like POWs when they leave.

Atlas is probably the best gig of the 4, but it's a pretty low bar.

FDX is better comped than UPS, but as mentioned, the schedule is brutal. Freight pilot is a whole different lifestyle than flying bus driver. It's not 3 days away from home, it's 10, or if it's a domestic trip it's probably mostly in the dark which just messes with your sleep.

They work the cockroach schedule - when you pull the covers up to your neck, and roll over onto your memory foam pillow, they're arriving to work in the van.

kiowa · Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:52 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Its not so much for the public but as a legal mechanism for later negotiations and signal to the company that the pilot force is ready for a new contract and management has been sending mixed signals regarding their desire to fruitfully negotiate.

Not every Fedex Pilot is making half a million, just like every doctor isn't making 500K either.

Its a hard job...I've got friends there, and despite the high pay and retirement, the job isn't for me. The schedules are grueling, the pilots have faced hotel lockdowns for 48-96 hours at a time, invasive covid testing, sub-quality food, among other quality of life challenges inherent in freight flying, like spending nearly the entirety of your work life on the back side of the clock. The pilots provide LOTS of value added to an immensely profitable company.

I have no problem with their wages. They work hard and the lifestyle is tough. I do believe that picketing is not an effective tool anymore though

TVNWZ · Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:58 pm

Know a couple pilots in Germantown. Used to work At DL and UA. They think they died and went to heaven. Not everybody is going to be happy.

GalaxyFlyer · Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:50 pm

bluecrew wrote:
scbriml wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:

/\ This.

And to expand a little bit, FedEx and UPS used the pandemic to book record profits. Meanwhile, their pilots faced serious QOL issues being quarantined in substandard Chinese government-run hotels after flying trips to China. The food provided in the lockdown hotels looked awful, too.

Yeah, it must suck being forced to work for FedEx. Oh wait...

The freight guys deserve what they're paid.

Tons of back of the clock flying, 10-14 day trip rotations, sometimes terrible hotels in cities without anything better, it's a completely different world than being an airline driver, complaining about an 11 hour layover in a Hilton Garden Inn in Rochester on a 3 day trip.

From my friends, at 50% of the list, there’s lot of daylight flying. Any international flying is back of the clock work, plenty of passenger lines fly lots of red-eyes, north-south pax work is at night. South American trips are night in both directions with a day layover. Yes, lots of long rotations, which some love, some hate. I’ve been in some remote cities and never seen freighters—mostly Shenzen, Pudong, HKG layover in Asia.

There’s an image FDX and UPS have that has never gone away.

ChrisPBacon · Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:17 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
With competitor UPS Airlines finalizing a new & better pilot contract, the pilots at FedEx are getting restless & want a new & better contract, too. Apparently negotiations for a new pilot contract were started last year with a promise of an agreement back in May of this year. Now, with this past due date getting even more delayed, the FedEx pilots have started picketing to draw attention to this matter.

The article also surveys recent pilot contract proposals by United and American. And with Delta pilots threatening a strike over delays in their pilot contract negotiations, it looks like we will be in for an interesting rest of the year in airline labor relations.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/fedex ... -contracts

Airline labor contracts in the USA are governed under the Railway Labor Act. Contracts don't "expire", they become amendable on a date set in the contract. So nothing is "past due" as you put it. as for Delta pilots "threatening a strike", this too is highly unlikely because of the Railway Labor Act. There will be negotiations between the company and union. In general, the union negotiates in public, via picketing and press releases, while the company generally does not comment in public about labor issues. This perpetuates the notion the company "isn't negotiating fairly". The Delta pilots are YEARS from being able to strike. They haven't had enough sessions, neither side has requested a federal mediator. Then the mediator will force them to meet for a long time before declaring an impasse, which is the ONLY legal time the pilots can strike (or the company impose a contract). And even that requires a cooling off period before the strike can happen.

Having been at the table, I can tell you that BOTH sides know how to strategically drag out the process. The RLA is ancient, but it still serves a purpose. It prevents wildcat strikes like you see in other industries, and protects the travelling public. But please do some research on the contract negotiation process in this industry. It's unlike any other.

strfyr51 · Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:46 pm

32andBelow wrote:
kiowa wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Where does a cargo pilot picket? In front of the cargo office?

Corporate headquarters? Like the other labor groups, people do not care unless it affects them directly. Until my package is late/ my flight is cancelled it does not make a difference to anyone. No one is saying"oh those poor pilots are picketing, they must be underpaid and overworked".

Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Are you speaking fron Knowledge of the fact or supposition?

strfyr51 · Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:53 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
kiowa wrote:

Corporate headquarters? Like the other labor groups, people do not care unless it affects them directly. Until my package is late/ my flight is cancelled it does not make a difference to anyone. No one is saying"oh those poor pilots are picketing, they must be underpaid and overworked".

Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Are you speaking fron Knowledge of the fact or supposition?

A senior Capt. AT FEDEX makes $335.00 per flight hour. amd as pilots can only fly 1000 Hrs MAX per year? It does NOT ass up to half a million

mattcat · Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:00 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Are you speaking fron Knowledge of the fact or supposition?

A senior Capt. AT FEDEX makes $335.00 per flight hour. amd as pilots can only fly 1000 Hrs MAX per year? It does NOT ass up to half a million

That’s block hours. You can easily double the pay. Say fly 50 block hours, but get paid 100.

AWACSooner · Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:12 pm

At this point, it'd be easier to post threads on which US airlines/cargo AREN'T having pilots who are demanding new contracts...

GalaxyFlyer · Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:35 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Are you speaking fron Knowledge of the fact or supposition?

A senior Capt. AT FEDEX makes $335.00 per flight hour. amd as pilots can only fly 1000 Hrs MAX per year? It does NOT ass up to half a million

You need to know about credit hours, premium pay, foreign pay; there’s a boatload more to Pilot pay than hours times rate.

DualQual · Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:59 am

They’re hiring. Feel free to apply.

LCDFlight · Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:49 am

32andBelow wrote:
kiowa wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Where does a cargo pilot picket? In front of the cargo office?

Corporate headquarters? Like the other labor groups, people do not care unless it affects them directly. Until my package is late/ my flight is cancelled it does not make a difference to anyone. No one is saying"oh those poor pilots are picketing, they must be underpaid and overworked".

Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Absolutely not. But pilots (and other bargaining groups) are NEVER satisfied. They always have a sad story about woe is me. Why, because sometimes it works, and too few people call them out on it. They aren’t embarrassed enough to stop.

FLALEFTY · Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:27 am

ChrisPBacon wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
With competitor UPS Airlines finalizing a new & better pilot contract, the pilots at FedEx are getting restless & want a new & better contract, too. Apparently negotiations for a new pilot contract were started last year with a promise of an agreement back in May of this year. Now, with this past due date getting even more delayed, the FedEx pilots have started picketing to draw attention to this matter.

The article also surveys recent pilot contract proposals by United and American. And with Delta pilots threatening a strike over delays in their pilot contract negotiations, it looks like we will be in for an interesting rest of the year in airline labor relations.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/fedex ... -contracts

Airline labor contracts in the USA are governed under the Railway Labor Act. Contracts don't "expire", they become amendable on a date set in the contract. So nothing is "past due" as you put it. as for Delta pilots "threatening a strike", this too is highly unlikely because of the Railway Labor Act. There will be negotiations between the company and union. In general, the union negotiates in public, via picketing and press releases, while the company generally does not comment in public about labor issues. This perpetuates the notion the company "isn't negotiating fairly". The Delta pilots are YEARS from being able to strike. They haven't had enough sessions, neither side has requested a federal mediator. Then the mediator will force them to meet for a long time before declaring an impasse, which is the ONLY legal time the pilots can strike (or the company impose a contract). And even that requires a cooling off period before the strike can happen.

Having been at the table, I can tell you that BOTH sides know how to strategically drag out the process. The RLA is ancient, but it still serves a purpose. It prevents wildcat strikes like you see in other industries, and protects the travelling public. But please do some research on the contract negotiation process in this industry. It's unlike any other.

I was merely summarizing what was written in the article I posted to start this thread, which follows A-net's guidelines. I take it you didn't even bother to read that article.

DualQual · Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:44 am

LCDFlight wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
kiowa wrote:

Corporate headquarters? Like the other labor groups, people do not care unless it affects them directly. Until my package is late/ my flight is cancelled it does not make a difference to anyone. No one is saying"oh those poor pilots are picketing, they must be underpaid and overworked".

Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Absolutely not. But pilots (and other bargaining groups) are NEVER satisfied. They always have a sad story about woe is me. Why, because sometimes it works, and too few people call them out on it. They aren’t embarrassed enough to stop.

https://careers.fedex.com/pilot-minimum-qualifications

catiii · Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:43 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
ChrisPBacon wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
With competitor UPS Airlines finalizing a new & better pilot contract, the pilots at FedEx are getting restless & want a new & better contract, too. Apparently negotiations for a new pilot contract were started last year with a promise of an agreement back in May of this year. Now, with this past due date getting even more delayed, the FedEx pilots have started picketing to draw attention to this matter.

The article also surveys recent pilot contract proposals by United and American. And with Delta pilots threatening a strike over delays in their pilot contract negotiations, it looks like we will be in for an interesting rest of the year in airline labor relations.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/fedex ... -contracts

Airline labor contracts in the USA are governed under the Railway Labor Act. Contracts don't "expire", they become amendable on a date set in the contract. So nothing is "past due" as you put it. as for Delta pilots "threatening a strike", this too is highly unlikely because of the Railway Labor Act. There will be negotiations between the company and union. In general, the union negotiates in public, via picketing and press releases, while the company generally does not comment in public about labor issues. This perpetuates the notion the company "isn't negotiating fairly". The Delta pilots are YEARS from being able to strike. They haven't had enough sessions, neither side has requested a federal mediator. Then the mediator will force them to meet for a long time before declaring an impasse, which is the ONLY legal time the pilots can strike (or the company impose a contract). And even that requires a cooling off period before the strike can happen.

Having been at the table, I can tell you that BOTH sides know how to strategically drag out the process. The RLA is ancient, but it still serves a purpose. It prevents wildcat strikes like you see in other industries, and protects the travelling public. But please do some research on the contract negotiation process in this industry. It's unlike any other.

I was merely summarizing what was written in the article I posted to start this thread, which follows A-net's guidelines. I take it you didn't even bother to read that article.

Why are you getting so worked up? If you were summarizing the article, all he did was correct the inaccuracies contained within it.

FlyHossD · Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:17 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
Know a couple pilots in Germantown. Used to work At DL and UA. They think they died and went to heaven. Not everybody is going to be happy.

Do you these pilots fly for a living? Do they fly for FedEx now? Or did they leave for DL and UA and have since retired? A little context would be helpful here.

FlapOperator · Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:50 pm

ChrisPBacon wrote:
\In general, the union negotiates in public, via picketing and press releases, while the company generally does not comment in public about labor issues. This perpetuates the notion the company "isn't negotiating fairly". The Delta pilots are YEARS from being able to strike. They haven't had enough sessions, neither side has requested a federal mediator. Then the mediator will force them to meet for a long time before declaring an impasse, which is the ONLY legal time the pilots can strike (or the company impose a contract). And even that requires a cooling off period before the strike can happen.

Having been at the table, I can tell you that BOTH sides know how to strategically drag out the process. The RLA is ancient, but it still serves a purpose. It prevents wildcat strikes like you see in other industries, and protects the travelling public. But please do some research on the contract negotiation process in this industry. It's unlike any other.

The perception that companies generally don't negotiate in good faith comes from the fact that one side is extraordinarily limited in self help options, and the companies as general rule use that leverage to string negotiations along for years or decades.

FlapOperator · Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:51 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
Know a couple pilots in Germantown. Used to work At DL and UA. They think they died and went to heaven. Not everybody is going to be happy.

Do you these pilots fly for a living? Do they fly for FedEx now? Or did they leave for DL and UA and have since retired? A little context would be helpful here.

There are pilots from other majors in every recent Fedex class, according to my sources.

Fedex is, compared to most other airlines, a very stable pilot job.

TVNWZ · Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:59 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
Know a couple pilots in Germantown. Used to work At DL and UA. They think they died and went to heaven. Not everybody is going to be happy.

Do you these pilots fly for a living? Do they fly for FedEx now? Or did they leave for DL and UA and have since retired? A little context would be helpful here.

They used to fly DL and UA. Now FX for several years. They contend QOL is better, home more, and less BS. And…no passenger drama. That was a big plus.

jjbiv · Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:05 am

TVNWZ wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
Know a couple pilots in Germantown. Used to work At DL and UA. They think they died and went to heaven. Not everybody is going to be happy.

Do you these pilots fly for a living? Do they fly for FedEx now? Or did they leave for DL and UA and have since retired? A little context would be helpful here.

They used to fly DL and UA. Now FX for several years. They contend QOL is better, home more, and less BS. And…no passenger drama. That was a big plus.

If they live in Germantown, QOL is bound to be better now that they are living in base (assuming they are based in MEM).

johns624 · Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:30 am

LCDFlight wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
kiowa wrote:

Corporate headquarters? Like the other labor groups, people do not care unless it affects them directly. Until my package is late/ my flight is cancelled it does not make a difference to anyone. No one is saying"oh those poor pilots are picketing, they must be underpaid and overworked".

Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Absolutely not. But pilots (and other bargaining groups) are NEVER satisfied. They always have a sad story about woe is me. Why, because sometimes it works, and too few people call them out on it. They aren’t embarrassed enough to stop.

Have you ever asked for a raise because you thought that you were worth more than you were being paid?

FlapOperator · Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:43 am

LCDFlight wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
kiowa wrote:

Corporate headquarters? Like the other labor groups, people do not care unless it affects them directly. Until my package is late/ my flight is cancelled it does not make a difference to anyone. No one is saying"oh those poor pilots are picketing, they must be underpaid and overworked".

Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Absolutely not. But pilots (and other bargaining groups) are NEVER satisfied. They always have a sad story about woe is me. Why, because sometimes it works, and too few people call them out on it. They aren’t embarrassed enough to stop.

Are you qualified for any job in the maintenance or flying operations departments at Fedex?

MohawkWeekend · Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:10 am

Don't begrudge anyone for trying to get as much as they can. That is s how capitalism is supposed to work

But next time the s*** hits the fan, no more federal aid for payrolls. And no federal aid for subsidised sustainable jet fuel. If they were spending money building those refineries, they wouldn't have so much for senior management, pilots, other employees, and dividends.

LCDFlight · Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:08 pm

johns624 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Absolutely not. But pilots (and other bargaining groups) are NEVER satisfied. They always have a sad story about woe is me. Why, because sometimes it works, and too few people call them out on it. They aren’t embarrassed enough to stop.
Have you ever asked for a raise because you thought that you were worth more than you were being paid?

Certainly not publicly, no. I kept the matter private.

FlapOperator wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Does the public feel bad for guys making half a million dollar a year?

Absolutely not. But pilots (and other bargaining groups) are NEVER satisfied. They always have a sad story about woe is me. Why, because sometimes it works, and too few people call them out on it. They aren’t embarrassed enough to stop.

Are you qualified for any job in the maintenance or flying operations departments at Fedex?

No, but I have been a beancounter in the industry before. I have had working relationships with pilot unions. I have listened to what they want from the same pool as my paycheck, and their justifications. I told you my take; you can tell me yours.

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Don't begrudge anyone for trying to get as much as they can. That is s how capitalism is supposed to work

But next time the s*** hits the fan, no more federal aid for payrolls. And no federal aid for subsidised sustainable jet fuel. If they were spending money building those refineries, they wouldn't have so much for senior management, pilots, other employees, and dividends.

$55+ billion bailout, without recourse, is not how capitalism is supposed to work. The government should own 50% of all the majors that received aid now. That should be my property now as a taxpayer.

FlyingElvii · Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:07 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
SkyVoice wrote:
bluecrew wrote:
The freight guys deserve what they're paid.

I agree. What is the status of the pilots' contracts at the USA's other freight carriers, such as DHL and the airlines that fly for Amazon?

DHL is an airline in the US, they use contractors just like Amazon. Both brands are not career places to work, they’re akin to the regionals. If one carrier won’t do what they’re told, DHL/Amazon simply take the planes to another. Race to the bottom

Which is why Atlas has so many “Subsidiaries”, that they can play off against each other come contract time.

FlyingElvii · Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:08 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
Know a couple pilots in Germantown. Used to work At DL and UA. They think they died and went to heaven. Not everybody is going to be happy.

Do you these pilots fly for a living? Do they fly for FedEx now? Or did they leave for DL and UA and have since retired? A little context would be helpful here.

They used to fly DL and UA. Now FX for several years. They contend QOL is better, home more, and less BS. And…no passenger drama. That was a big plus.

“Boxes Don’t Bitch….”

panam330 · Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:13 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:

Do you these pilots fly for a living? Do they fly for FedEx now? Or did they leave for DL and UA and have since retired? A little context would be helpful here.

They used to fly DL and UA. Now FX for several years. They contend QOL is better, home more, and less BS. And…no passenger drama. That was a big plus.

“Boxes Don’t Bitch….”

...But they do catch on fire more. :mrgreen:

MohawkWeekend · Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:04 am

I never did understand payroll support for cargo airlines. COVID made their business boom.
How big a raise could FedEx afford if they hadn't gotten $2 billion in aid in 2020 and 2021.

FlapOperator · Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:24 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
I never did understand payroll support for cargo airlines. COVID made their business boom.
How big a raise could FedEx afford if they hadn't gotten $2 billion in aid in 2020 and 2021.

How many cargo airlines received payroll support, and for that matter, a number of large airlines went to the private equity markets, versus the government?

MohawkWeekend · Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:19 pm

Found this -
"Atlas Air received more than $406 million in PSP funds. The company’s second quarter earnings in 2020 increased approximately 300 percent over the second quarter of 2019.
Kalitta Air received more than $161 million in taxpayer funds despite being described as a “perfect example of a company that is benefitting wildly” from the pandemic economy.
Western Global Airlines received more than $34 million in PSP funds even though Moody’s Investors Service wrote that the company “benefitted from the increased demand for its global air cargo services” during the pandemic.
Amerijet International received more than $30 million in taxpayer funds from the PSP despite reporting a “period of profitable growth” and expansion in 2020.

In addition, the federal tax on jet fuel was suspended (worth $70 million to FedEx) and tax provisions in the CARES Act that allowed FED EX to recover several hundred million dollars in tax refunds. Which is pretty amazing considering that FEDEX hardly ever pays any Federal income tax.

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