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chunhimlai
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Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:25 am

Effectively 0000 UTC on 08 July 2022, HKG 3rd runway would start operation. At the same time, the centre runway(07C/25C) would be closed for reconfiguration.

Source:
https://www.hongkongairport.com/en/medi ... 22/pr_1600
https://www.ais.gov.hk/HKAIP/supp/09-22.pdf

Reference:
https://www.ais.gov.hk/HKAIP/supp/06-22.pdf

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Francoflier
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:39 am

Considering that most of the flights operating into HKG are freighters, which all park at the southern ramp, taxying to and from the new runway is going to be a right pain in the behind. I also predict quite a few 'interesting' moments with that new ILS 25R procedure.

Ironically, HKG is about as far as it's ever been from needing 3 runways, given its isolationist stance. In fact it has largely gotten by with one runway most of the time for the last 2 and a half years.

Here's to hoping that by the time they have 3 runways operating (which won't be for another 2 at least), they'll have come to their senses. Although by then, who knows how relevant HK will be...
 
smi0006
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:05 pm

What’s the thinking behind closing the centre runway? Forgive not overly clear on the technical components
 
leader1
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:36 pm

smi0006 wrote:
What’s the thinking behind closing the centre runway? Forgive not overly clear on the technical components


Closed for reconstruction.
 
zuckie13
Posts: 547
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:57 pm

Francoflier wrote:
I also predict quite a few 'interesting' moments with that new ILS 25R procedure.


What is it about this procedure that makes you think this? Is it a very abnormal ILS procedure or something?
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:22 pm

Francoflier wrote:
Considering that most of the flights operating into HKG are freighters, which all park at the southern ramp, taxying to and from the new runway is going to be a right pain in the behind. I also predict quite a few 'interesting' moments with that new ILS 25R procedure.

Ironically, HKG is about as far as it's ever been from needing 3 runways, given its isolationist stance. In fact it has largely gotten by with one runway most of the time for the last 2 and a half years.

Here's to hoping that by the time they have 3 runways operating (which won't be for another 2 at least), they'll have come to their senses. Although by then, who knows how relevant HK will be...


Cargo flights will use the south most runway as much as possible.
It is only temporary situation where cargo flights are more then passengers flights
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:26 pm

zuckie13 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
I also predict quite a few 'interesting' moments with that new ILS 25R procedure.


What is it about this procedure that makes you think this? Is it a very abnormal ILS procedure or something?


https://www.facebook.com/aero320/photos/a.233077757187701/1373640699798062/?type=3
 
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GCT64
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:24 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
I also predict quite a few 'interesting' moments with that new ILS 25R procedure.


What is it about this procedure that makes you think this? Is it a very abnormal ILS procedure or something?


https://www.facebook.com/aero320/photos/a.233077757187701/1373640699798062/?type=3


That looks like only (about) 500' clearance over the mountain peak between RUNSU and SAGNI, I'm no expert but that seems to not give too much room for errors.
 
zuckie13
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:20 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
I also predict quite a few 'interesting' moments with that new ILS 25R procedure.


What is it about this procedure that makes you think this? Is it a very abnormal ILS procedure or something?


https://www.facebook.com/aero320/photos/a.233077757187701/1373640699798062/?type=3


I mean, yes it's close to some mountains, but it's straight in over/through them. There are places where you are turning around mountains much closer the the airport. The main interesting thing will be the passengers seeing how close they are to the mountain.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:00 pm

GCT64 wrote:

That looks like only (about) 500' clearance over the mountain peak between RUNSU and SAGNI, I'm no expert but that seems to not give too much room for errors.


Sounds like a great place for plane spotting. :duck: Been a while since I've hiked the hills behind HK -any trails nearby?
 
mdavies06
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:10 am

What is the ILS procedure to the west of the airport? that area is shared with 3 other airports MFM, SZX and Zhuhai...
 
edealinfo
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:15 am

Francoflier wrote:
Ironically, HKG is about as far as it's ever been from needing 3 runways, given its isolationist stance. I.


At least they actually get work done and kudos to them. Compare that to the LHR's proposed 3rd runway. Haven't they wanted to have one for the last 40 years and until now there is ZERO construction of the runway?
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:44 am

Francoflier wrote:
Considering that most of the flights operating into HKG are freighters, which all park at the southern ramp, taxying to and from the new runway is going to be a right pain in the behind. I also predict quite a few 'interesting' moments with that new ILS 25R procedure.

Ironically, HKG is about as far as it's ever been from needing 3 runways, given its isolationist stance. In fact it has largely gotten by with one runway most of the time for the last 2 and a half years.

Here's to hoping that by the time they have 3 runways operating (which won't be for another 2 at least), they'll have come to their senses. Although by then, who knows how relevant HK will be...


Many of them park at X45X or L4XX or D32X now
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:51 am

zkojq wrote:
GCT64 wrote:

That looks like only (about) 500' clearance over the mountain peak between RUNSU and SAGNI, I'm no expert but that seems to not give too much room for errors.


Sounds like a great place for plane spotting. :duck: Been a while since I've hiked the hills behind HK -any trails nearby?


One parallel to the coast to Tai O and another one next to the cable car line to Tian Tan Buddha
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:41 am

smi0006 wrote:
What’s the thinking behind closing the centre runway? Forgive not overly clear on the technical components


I understand making it longer as well as new taxiway exits for traffic to serve the runway to/from the north/south side of the runway. This will also involve a lot of drainage work, and cabling for navigation systems and lights.

zuckie13 wrote:
What is it about this procedure that makes you think this? Is it a very abnormal ILS procedure or something?


The ILS is slightly steeper at 3.1 degrees, as well some terrain further out between 10-15 miles. There is cautions on the chart to not to arm the ILS until closer in as you may not have terrain clearance if you arm it a long way out.

A problem I see for this is the identifier for the new 25R has been recycled from 25C (the original 25R), if someone is infrequent into HKG and remembers that the ILS starts at 14.1 nm it will not end well.

hongkongflyer wrote:
It is only temporary situation where cargo flights are more then passengers flights


Temporary being 2 years.

zkojq wrote:
Been a while since I've hiked the hills behind HK -any trails nearby?


Sure is, few buddies go up there most days on bikes.

mdavies06 wrote:
What is the ILS procedure to the west of the airport? that area is shared with 3 other airports MFM, SZX and Zhuhai...


It isn't really, HKG approach/radar handles both HKG/MFM, Shenzhen airspace is above, and Zhuhai is on the other side of MFM, no factor. The ILS approaches from the west are no factor. There were approaches that took aircraft on the northern side of the airport for a left base onto the old 07L.
 
J343
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:08 am

Just out of curiosity, is there enough land for a new concourse to be build? I was thinking adjacent to the new midfield concourse? Last time I flew in and out of HKG, the 3rd runway was under construction and now its about to be operational. How time flies!

Here's to hoping the government will open HK to the world!
 
32andBelow
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:54 am

zeke wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
What’s the thinking behind closing the centre runway? Forgive not overly clear on the technical components


I understand making it longer as well as new taxiway exits for traffic to serve the runway to/from the north/south side of the runway. This will also involve a lot of drainage work, and cabling for navigation systems and lights.

zuckie13 wrote:
What is it about this procedure that makes you think this? Is it a very abnormal ILS procedure or something?


The ILS is slightly steeper at 3.1 degrees, as well some terrain further out between 10-15 miles. There is cautions on the chart to not to arm the ILS until closer in as you may not have terrain clearance if you arm it a long way out.

A problem I see for this is the identifier for the new 25R has been recycled from 25C (the original 25R), if someone is infrequent into HKG and remembers that the ILS starts at 14.1 nm it will not end well.

hongkongflyer wrote:
It is only temporary situation where cargo flights are more then passengers flights


Temporary being 2 years.

zkojq wrote:
Been a while since I've hiked the hills behind HK -any trails nearby?


Sure is, few buddies go up there most days on bikes.

mdavies06 wrote:
What is the ILS procedure to the west of the airport? that area is shared with 3 other airports MFM, SZX and Zhuhai...


It isn't really, HKG approach/radar handles both HKG/MFM, Shenzhen airspace is above, and Zhuhai is on the other side of MFM, no factor. The ILS approaches from the west are no factor. There were approaches that took aircraft on the northern side of the airport for a left base onto the old 07L.

Could they have build an rnav/rnp transition above the terrain to join the localizer after the far out terrain?
 
BHRN
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:21 am

J343 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is there enough land for a new concourse to be build? I was thinking adjacent to the new midfield concourse? Last time I flew in and out of HKG, the 3rd runway was under construction and now its about to be operational. How time flies!

Here's to hoping the government will open HK to the world!


Look at the map in the first post. The new land created is almost as large as the original island.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:08 pm

BHRN wrote:
J343 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is there enough land for a new concourse to be build? I was thinking adjacent to the new midfield concourse? Last time I flew in and out of HKG, the 3rd runway was under construction and now its about to be operational. How time flies!

Here's to hoping the government will open HK to the world!


Look at the map in the first post. The new land created is almost as large as the original island.


Because a new terminal similar to the size of the existing one will be build in that area
 
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Heavierthanair
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:17 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
Because a new terminal similar to the size of the existing one will be build in that area


Why on earth would Hongkong need another terminal. With the present political "developments" they will never get back to the former glory precovid :duck:
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:08 pm

Heavierthanair wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
Because a new terminal similar to the size of the existing one will be build in that area


Why on earth would Hongkong need another terminal. With the present political "developments" they will never get back to the former glory precovid :duck:

Never say never. That said, it will be a struggle to regain the former glory. At least they have a 3rd runway.
 
3D101CA
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:55 pm

I doubt HKG will even be near a time of recovery for quite a while. It's not just COVID, but the political problems have only made passenger numbers drop before the pandemic.

Cathay Pacific itself is operating a very tiny schedule compared to what they operated before COVID. Many destinations on there network are still not resumed at the moment.

A third runway really isn't really going to have any benefits now.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:27 am

[twoid][/twoid]
3D101CA wrote:
I doubt HKG will even be near a time of recovery for quite a while. It's not just COVID, but the political problems have only made passenger numbers drop before the pandemic.

Cathay Pacific itself is operating a very tiny schedule compared to what they operated before COVID. Many destinations on there network are still not resumed at the moment.

A third runway really isn't really going to have any benefits now.


The current situation is basically because of the close boarder policies related COVID, which should not be last forever. We don’t want to wait
for 40 years when we needed a new runway like LHR
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:32 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
The current situation is basically because of the close boarder policies related COVID, which should not be last forever.


Can you please help me understand the scientific basis of that statement.

What situation are you referring to ? what policy are you referring to ? how is this related to COVID ?

Why is so different to the rest of the world ?
 
classicjets
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:31 am

Can the title be amended to 08JUL?
 
leader1
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:53 am

What’s the airfield’s capacity supposed to be when all three runways are operating? I was reading somewhere that the new runway is supposed to be for landings only and would increase capacity by 33 arrivals an hour. Seems pretty low.
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:04 am

classicjets wrote:
Can the title be amended to 08JUL?


Should say 16 July, that is when the next database cycle is effective

A0352/22 NOTAMN
Q) VHHK/QMRTT/IV/BO/A/000/999/2219N11355E005
A) VHHH B) 2206160000 C) 2206300000
E) TRIGGER NOTAM-AIP SUP 06/22 (AIRAC) WEF 16 JUN 2022:
-UPDATED INFORMATION OF THE NEW NORTH RUNWAY (RWY 07L/25R) OF HONG
KONG INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

from https://www.ais.gov.hk/HKAIP/notam.pdf

AIP SUP 06/22 states

"The aerodrome data contained in this AIP Supplement are applicable to the new North Runway. In line with the ICAO
AIRAC procedures, the data published in this AIP Supplement will be effective on 16 June 2022:. The data are
published in advance for operators to ensure their operational readiness when the runway is put into operational use."

from AIP SUP 06/22 06/22 https://www.ais.gov.hk/#SUP1
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:37 am

zeke wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
The current situation is basically because of the close boarder policies related COVID, which should not be last forever.


Can you please help me understand the scientific basis of that statement.

What situation are you referring to ? what policy are you referring to ? how is this related to COVID ?

Why is so different to the rest of the world ?


Limited number of passengers and transit traffic because everyone is subject to quarantine upon arrival because of the city's COVID related policies.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:38 am

zeke wrote:
classicjets wrote:
Can the title be amended to 08JUL?


Should say 16 July, that is when the next database cycle is effective

A0352/22 NOTAMN
Q) VHHK/QMRTT/IV/BO/A/000/999/2219N11355E005
A) VHHH B) 2206160000 C) 2206300000
E) TRIGGER NOTAM-AIP SUP 06/22 (AIRAC) WEF 16 JUN 2022:
-UPDATED INFORMATION OF THE NEW NORTH RUNWAY (RWY 07L/25R) OF HONG
KONG INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

from https://www.ais.gov.hk/HKAIP/notam.pdf

AIP SUP 06/22 states

"The aerodrome data contained in this AIP Supplement are applicable to the new North Runway. In line with the ICAO
AIRAC procedures, the data published in this AIP Supplement will be effective on 16 June 2022:. The data are
published in advance for operators to ensure their operational readiness when the runway is put into operational use."

from AIP SUP 06/22 06/22 https://www.ais.gov.hk/#SUP1


Planes will begin to land at the new North Runway since 8 Jul
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:27 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
Planes will begin to land at the new North Runway since 8 Jul


I don’t think that will be regular services. The NOTAM for opening is July 16, the runway is not in the database. There is a separate note saying some familiarization flights will happen from July 8, however the data in the AIP data is not to be used. Without published data in the AIP I cannot see how an airline could legally do passenger flights onto that runway.

It might mean for example they will give the opportunity for local operators to do training circuits onto the runway, and to,do,they they would load the next database cycle effective July 16, then switch is back after the flight to the current cycle.
 
SpoonNZ
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:50 am

zeke wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
Planes will begin to land at the new North Runway since 8 Jul


I don’t think that will be regular services. The NOTAM for opening is July 16, the runway is not in the database. There is a separate note saying some familiarization flights will happen from July 8, however the data in the AIP data is not to be used. Without published data in the AIP I cannot see how an airline could legally do passenger flights onto that runway.

It might mean for example they will give the opportunity for local operators to do training circuits onto the runway, and to,do,they they would load the next database cycle effective July 16, then switch is back after the flight to the current cycle.

The NOTAM you quoted says June 16, not July.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:52 pm

zeke wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
Planes will begin to land at the new North Runway since 8 Jul


I don’t think that will be regular services. The NOTAM for opening is July 16, the runway is not in the database. There is a separate note saying some familiarization flights will happen from July 8, however the data in the AIP data is not to be used. Without published data in the AIP I cannot see how an airline could legally do passenger flights onto that runway.

It might mean for example they will give the opportunity for local operators to do training circuits onto the runway, and to,do,they they would load the next database cycle effective July 16, then switch is back after the flight to the current cycle.


https://www.hongkongairport.com/en/medi ... 22/pr_1600

I believe you know what Airport Authority HK is.

Their press release clearly said that planes will be scheduled to use the newest runway while the centre runway will be closed with effective from 8/7/2022.
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:10 am

SpoonNZ wrote:
The NOTAM you quoted says June 16, not July.


Sorry I posted the wrong one, it had been withdrawn and replaced.

NOTAM A0518/22: Hong Kong International Airport (VHHH)
A0518/22 NOTAMN
Q) VHHK/QMRXX/IV/NBO/A /000/999/2219N11355E005
A) VHHH B) 2207080000 C) 2209302359 EST
E) REF AIP SUP 06/22 PARA 1.1, THE NORTH RWY (RWY 07L/25R) IS AVBL FOR
OPS FAMILIARIZATION. CONCURRENTLY THE CENTRE RWY (RWY 07C/25C) IS
CLSD FOR RECONFIGURATION AND THE ASSOCIATED AERODROME DATA IN AIP
HONG KONG SHALL NOT BE USED.
CREATED: 01 Jul 2022 09:30:00
SOURCE: VHHHYNYX
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:31 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
I believe you know what Airport Authority HK is.

Their press release clearly said that planes will be scheduled to use the newest runway while the centre runway will be closed with effective from 8/7/2022.


The press release says "operation familiarisation for aircraft taking-off and landing on the Third Runway", "to allow local and overseas stakeholders of the aviation community to familiarise with the related operating procedures and collaborative arrangements in an orderly manner"

The CAD is the issuer of the certification for the runway, and they publish via the AIP the data and charts. The charts I have for 07L/25R all state they are temporary and refer to current NOTAMS.

You can see for yourself the current published AIP cycle has no data or charts for 07L/25R https://www.ais.gov.hk/eaip_20220616/20 ... en-US.html

The charts in the AIP SUP state in red on the top that HKCAD authorisation is required

Image
 
AviationLuver
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:24 pm

zeke wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
What’s the thinking behind closing the centre runway? Forgive not overly clear on the technical components


I understand making it longer as well as new taxiway exits for traffic to serve the runway to/from the north/south side of the runway. This will also involve a lot of drainage work, and cabling for navigation systems and lights.

zuckie13 wrote:
What is it about this procedure that makes you think this? Is it a very abnormal ILS procedure or something?


The ILS is slightly steeper at 3.1 degrees, as well some terrain further out between 10-15 miles. There is cautions on the chart to not to arm the ILS until closer in as you may not have terrain clearance if you arm it a long way out.

A problem I see for this is the identifier for the new 25R has been recycled from 25C (the original 25R), if someone is infrequent into HKG and remembers that the ILS starts at 14.1 nm it will not end well.

hongkongflyer wrote:
It is only temporary situation where cargo flights are more then passengers flights


Temporary being 2 years.

zkojq wrote:
Been a while since I've hiked the hills behind HK -any trails nearby?


Sure is, few buddies go up there most days on bikes.

mdavies06 wrote:
What is the ILS procedure to the west of the airport? that area is shared with 3 other airports MFM, SZX and Zhuhai...


It isn't really, HKG approach/radar handles both HKG/MFM, Shenzhen airspace is above, and Zhuhai is on the other side of MFM, no factor. The ILS approaches from the west are no factor. There were approaches that took aircraft on the northern side of the airport for a left base onto the old 07L.



How much longer will the 25C Runway be once reconstructed?
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:29 am

AviationLuver wrote:
zeke wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
What’s the thinking behind closing the centre runway? Forgive not overly clear on the technical components


I understand making it longer as well as new taxiway exits for traffic to serve the runway to/from the north/south side of the runway. This will also involve a lot of drainage work, and cabling for navigation systems and lights.

zuckie13 wrote:
What is it about this procedure that makes you think this? Is it a very abnormal ILS procedure or something?


The ILS is slightly steeper at 3.1 degrees, as well some terrain further out between 10-15 miles. There is cautions on the chart to not to arm the ILS until closer in as you may not have terrain clearance if you arm it a long way out.

A problem I see for this is the identifier for the new 25R has been recycled from 25C (the original 25R), if someone is infrequent into HKG and remembers that the ILS starts at 14.1 nm it will not end well.

hongkongflyer wrote:
It is only temporary situation where cargo flights are more then passengers flights


Temporary being 2 years.

zkojq wrote:
Been a while since I've hiked the hills behind HK -any trails nearby?


Sure is, few buddies go up there most days on bikes.

mdavies06 wrote:
What is the ILS procedure to the west of the airport? that area is shared with 3 other airports MFM, SZX and Zhuhai...


It isn't really, HKG approach/radar handles both HKG/MFM, Shenzhen airspace is above, and Zhuhai is on the other side of MFM, no factor. The ILS approaches from the west are no factor. There were approaches that took aircraft on the northern side of the airport for a left base onto the old 07L.



How much longer will the 25C Runway be once reconstructed?


The extension to 25C is mainly for the new taxiway at both runway entrance so don't expect it will become significantly longer
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:33 am

zeke wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
I believe you know what Airport Authority HK is.

Their press release clearly said that planes will be scheduled to use the newest runway while the centre runway will be closed with effective from 8/7/2022.


The press release says "operation familiarisation for aircraft taking-off and landing on the Third Runway", "to allow local and overseas stakeholders of the aviation community to familiarise with the related operating procedures and collaborative arrangements in an orderly manner"

The CAD is the issuer of the certification for the runway, and they publish via the AIP the data and charts. The charts I have for 07L/25R all state they are temporary and refer to current NOTAMS.

You can see for yourself the current published AIP cycle has no data or charts for 07L/25R https://www.ais.gov.hk/eaip_20220616/20 ... en-US.html

The charts in the AIP SUP state in red on the top that HKCAD authorisation is required

Image


Time really tell who is wrong. Clearly not the so call “ familiarity flights for local operators to do training circuits onto the runway“ you believed. The new runway is now in full operation.

ARRIVAL

VHHH ARR INFO FOXTROT, ISSUED AT 0010Z.
ARRIVALS, RWY 07L.
CENTRE RWY CLSD DUE WIP.
MET REPORT VHHH 080000Z WIND 110/10KT VIS 10KM CLD FEW 1400FT T29 DP25 QNH 1008HPA=
ACKNOWLEDGE INFO FOXTROT ON FIRST CTC WITH APP.


DEPARTURE

VHHH DEP INFO NOVEMBER, ISSUED AT 0009Z.
DEPARTURES, RWY 07R.
CENTRE RWY CLSD DUE WIP.
MET REPORT VHHH 080000Z WIND 110/08KT VIS 10KM CLD FEW 1400FT T29 DP25 QNH 1008HPA=
ACKNOWLEDGE INFO NOVEMBER ON FIRST CTC WITH GROUND ON 122.55.

https://atis.cad.gov.hk/ATIS/ATISweb/atis.php
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:21 am

Traffic landed this morning during the first 30 mins on the new runway include:
CX cargo flights from PVG
PR flight from MNL
DHL flight from BKK
Air HK flight from CTU
HX flight from TPE
A 346 pax-freighter from NBO
CI flight from TPE

No way a familiarity flights for local operators to do training circuits onto the runway
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:13 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
Traffic landed this morning during the first 30 mins on the new runway include:
CX cargo flights from PVG
PR flight from MNL
DHL flight from BKK
Air HK flight from CTU
HX flight from TPE
A 346 pax-freighter from NBO
CI flight from TPE

No way a familiarity flights for local operators to do training circuits onto the runway


What you do and do not know about is what has happened behind the scenes over the last few days.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:21 am

zeke wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
Traffic landed this morning during the first 30 mins on the new runway include:
CX cargo flights from PVG
PR flight from MNL
DHL flight from BKK
Air HK flight from CTU
HX flight from TPE
A 346 pax-freighter from NBO
CI flight from TPE

No way a familiarity flights for local operators to do training circuits onto the runway


What you do and do not know about is what has happened behind the scenes over the last few days.


I don’t think that will be regular services. The NOTAM for opening is July 16, the runway is not in the database. There is a separate note saying some familiarization flights will happen from July 8, however the data in the AIP data is not to be used. Without published data in the AIP I cannot see how an airline could legally do passenger flights onto that runway.

It might mean for example they will give the opportunity for local operators to do training circuits onto the runway, and to,do,they they would load the next database cycle effective July 16, then switch is back after the flight to the current cycle.


I am only replying to your claim about the commencement of operation of the new runway happened today
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:12 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
I am only replying to your claim about the commencement of operation of the new runway happened today


It was correct at time of posting, as I said you have no idea what has transpired since.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:57 am

zeke wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
I am only replying to your claim about the commencement of operation of the new runway happened today


It was correct at time of posting, as I said you have no idea what has transpired since.


No it wasn’t . No flight training conducted between that day and today and the runway is now fully operational.
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:18 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
No it wasn’t . No flight training conducted between that day and today and the runway is now fully operational.


I stated there was no operational approval to use the runway at the time, and I suggested they could use the runway for training as those flights are not considered commercial operations.

Operators did do some training, we had aircraft out using the new taxiways across the centre runways and around 07L/25R.

The data for the runway is still not published in the HKG AIP, and won’t be for the next few cycles (including the the cycle effective in August). Everything is being done from a supplement.

There are known problems with operating into 25R both for takeoff and landing. That has required a number of operational changes to be published.

I will repeat, what I posted was correct at the time, you have no visibility of the changes since then. A broken clock is correct twice a day.

All your statements relied on one press release from the airport authority. They don’t issue the licence for the airport, they don’t approve the runway, they don’t approve or design the operational data, they don’t approve the operators, they don’t issue the NOTAMs, they do not provide control services for the airport.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:51 am

zeke wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
No it wasn’t . No flight training conducted between that day and today and the runway is now fully operational.


I stated there was no operational approval to use the runway at the time, and I suggested they could use the runway for training as those flights are not considered commercial operations.

Operators did do some training, we had aircraft out using the new taxiways across the centre runways and around 07L/25R.

The data for the runway is still not published in the HKG AIP, and won’t be for the next few cycles (including the the cycle effective in August). Everything is being done from a supplement.

There are known problems with operating into 25R both for takeoff and landing. That has required a number of operational changes to be published.

I will repeat, what I posted was correct at the time, you have no visibility of the changes since then. A broken clock is correct twice a day.

All your statements relied on one press release from the airport authority. They don’t issue the licence for the airport, they don’t approve the runway, they don’t approve or design the operational data, they don’t approve the operators, they don’t issue the NOTAMs, they do not provide control services for the airport.


It is amazed that someone think that the press release (which proved all the information mentioned are correct) issued by the authority who actually responsible for managing the airport is considered unreliable.

License for the third runway (or in other words, operating HKIA as a 3 runway airport) have been obtained long before you posted.
Certification flights performed months ago and taxiway test (at lease involved CX; UO and HX planes) also performed.

https://www.hongkongairport.com/en/media-centre/press-release/2022/pr_1597
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:04 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
It is amazed that someone think that the press release (which proved all the information mentioned are correct) issued by the authority who actually responsible for managing the airport is considered unreliable.


The airport authority is no different to the highways department, they are responsible for the infrastructure.

The highways department does not issue licences, they don’t register vehicles, don’t charge people, they don’t make the rules.

The HKIA does not produce the airport procedures, they don’t design the charts, they don’t publish the data, they don’t register aircraft, the don’t issue AOC, they don’t issue licences, they did not do the certification, they don’t issue notams, and they do not provide ATC. They don’t provide weather forecast, they don’t issue the ATIS.

I know where I work we had around 15 new pages pushed to our charts which included various approvals (dated yesterday). We had new performance databases updated on the aircraft and iPads, new training material, and new operational notices.

None of that come from HKIA.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:18 am

zeke wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
It is amazed that someone think that the press release (which proved all the information mentioned are correct) issued by the authority who actually responsible for managing the airport is considered unreliable.


The airport authority is no different to the highways department, they are responsible for the infrastructure.

The highways department does not issue licences, they don’t register vehicles, don’t charge people, they don’t make the rules.

The HKIA does not produce the airport procedures, they don’t design the charts, they don’t publish the data, they don’t register aircraft, the don’t issue AOC, they don’t issue licences, they did not do the certification, they don’t issue notams, and they do not provide ATC. They don’t provide weather forecast, they don’t issue the ATIS.

I know where I work we had around 15 new pages pushed to our charts which included various approvals (dated yesterday). We had new performance databases updated on the aircraft and iPads, new training material, and new operational notices.

None of that come from HKIA.


But HKIA know when they got the licenses; when the third runway is ready for operation; whether the regulating parties and airlines have all the procedures ready before issuing the press release claiming the new runway will become operational today 8 July, instead, you claimed in the pervious posts that the runway is not ready because next update cycle of those charts and navigations data is few days later.
 
leader1
Posts: 305
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:31 am

zeke wrote:
[
There are known problems with operating into 25R both for takeoff and landing. That has required a number of operational changes to be published.


Just out of curiosity, but what are the issues with operational procedures that runway?
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:09 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
But HKIA know when they got the licenses; when the third runway is ready for operation; whether the regulating parties and airlines have all the procedures ready before issuing the press release claiming the new runway will become operational today 8 July, instead, you claimed in the pervious posts that the runway is not ready because next update cycle of those charts and navigations data is few days later.


Show me the evidence :

Where has the HKIA granted approval to opertors ?
Where has the HKIA published the airport data ?
How does the HKIA distribute the controlled data for the airport ?
Which department in the HKIA designed the approach and departure procedures ?
Which department in the HKIA developed the ATC procedures ?
Which department in the HKIA developed the airspace arrancements ?
Which department in the HKIA provided all the procedures to the airlines ?
Which department in the HKIA provided the training packages to the airlines ?

The list goes on, The answer to all of the above is the HKIA does none of that, it provided nothing to "regulating parties and airlines".
 
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zeke
Posts: 17350
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:11 pm

leader1 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, but what are the issues with operational procedures that runway?


The databases had incorrect coordinates for the runway, SIDs are missing waypoints, approaches can provide no terrain clearnace if conventionally flown, takeoff splay into a shipping lane resulting in large payload hit.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4995
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Re: Hong Kong Airport 3rd runway start operation on 08JUN

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:21 pm

What was the registration of the first arrivals?

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