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md11sdf
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Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:35 am

I am a big fan of "Big Jet TV" on YouTube and have been seeing Air Canada's 737 MAX-8's doing the transatlantic thing and had a question: The range of the aircraft is 3500 miles and the distance from Montreal to London is 3200 miles, isn't a 300 mile cushion a bit too short for safety? And, on westbound trips, flying against the Jetstream, is a fuel stop in Iceland needed?
 
portcolumbus
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:39 am

md11sdf wrote:
isn't a 300 mile cushion a bit too short for safety?


If the aircraft couldn't meet the legal requirements they wouldn't fly.
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:42 am

Presently, Air Canada only flies the 787 between YUL and LHR, some days two daily. The 737 does however fly daily between YHZ and LHR, well within its range.
 
a340crew
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:56 am

Norwegian was flying the 737 Max8 SWF-EDI (as well as other cities too) which is just a little over 3200 miles, and they didn’t have any operational issues on the route (prior to the max groundings). They were also higher density since it was all Y and no J class seating.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:10 am

md11sdf wrote:
I am a big fan of "Big Jet TV" on YouTube and have been seeing Air Canada's 737 MAX-8's doing the transatlantic thing and had a question: The range of the aircraft is 3500 miles and the distance from Montreal to London is 3200 miles, isn't a 300 mile cushion a bit too short for safety? And, on westbound trips, flying against the Jetstream, is a fuel stop in Iceland needed?


Don't forget, if the winds are too strong, they can always weight restrict the aircraft to ensure it has enough fuel to make it from point A to B with the payload it can properly carry.
 
Acey
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:11 am

md11sdf wrote:
The range of the aircraft is 3500 miles and the distance from Montreal to London is 3200 miles


Wrong and wrong.

You used nautical miles for the aircraft range, but statute miles for the flight distance. If you use the same units...

7M8 range = 3,550 nm
YUL-LHR = 2,824 nm

More importantly, as mentioned, the MAX is not even flying YUL-LHR.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:33 am

md11sdf wrote:
I am a big fan of "Big Jet TV" on YouTube and have been seeing Air Canada's 737 MAX-8's doing the transatlantic thing and had a question: The range of the aircraft is 3500 miles and the distance from Montreal to London is 3200 miles, isn't a 300 mile cushion a bit too short for safety? And, on westbound trips, flying against the Jetstream, is a fuel stop in Iceland needed?


The range is nautical miles. Also range depends on payload, with only around 150 passengers the range is more than with 189 for example.
 
orlandocfi
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:35 am

Westjet is also flying their Max8s across the Atlantic. These hops across the pond are well within the capability of the Max…there are longer segments being flown by other Max operators.
 
FlyingSicilian
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:42 am

Don't they fly 737s from Newfoundland & Labrador or Nova Scotia not Montreal?
 
Acey
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:45 am

FlyingSicilian wrote:
Don't they fly 737s from Newfoundland & Labrador or Nova Scotia not Montreal?

In 2018, AC announced YUL-BOD on the MAX 8 but I think it was flown by Rouge and didn't end up launching. The aircraft is definitely capable.

orlandocfi wrote:
These hops across the pond are well within the capability of the Max…there are longer segments being flown by other Max operators.


Yup, even by other Canadian operators. Sunwing this past winter just operated PUJ-YVR at 3,200 nm in a 189 seat config, mostly without issue. YUL-LHR would be a short hop in comparison.
 
md11sdf
Topic Author
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:01 am

I chose YUL because it's AC's "eastern" hub. Yes, Halifax is 300 miles 'closer' to LHR, but operationally I never considered it. Clearly, I was wrong. Thanks for the answers!
 
questions
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:14 am

Is this AC 737 MAX configured like a domestic AC 737 MAX?

If so, does YUL-LHR not have enough premium traffic to justify an aircraft with an international business class cabin?
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:22 am

questions wrote:
Is this AC 737 MAX configured like a domestic AC 737 MAX?

If so, does YUL-LHR not have enough premium traffic to justify an aircraft with an international business class cabin?


As already said in this thread, AC aren’t using the 7M8 on YUL-LHR.

Yes, they are the domestic configured 737s, which have replaced the domestic configured A319s previously used on LHR-YHZ and LHR-YYT.
 
questions
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:15 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
questions wrote:
Is this AC 737 MAX configured like a domestic AC 737 MAX?

If so, does YUL-LHR not have enough premium traffic to justify an aircraft with an international business class cabin?


As already said in this thread, AC aren’t using the 7M8 on YUL-LHR.

Yes, they are the domestic configured 737s, which have replaced the domestic configured A319s previously used on LHR-YHZ and LHR-YYT.


I apologize. I misread the comments as I scrolled through them.

Thank you for clarifying.
 
B747forever
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:49 am

Before COVID, I flew both LHR-YHZ and YYT-LHR on my way to/from ARN-LAX. Both operated by the MAX 8, and for those short TATL hops the equipment was adequate.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:40 am

RyanairGuru wrote:

Yes, they are the domestic configured 737s, which have replaced the domestic configured A319s previously used on LHR-YHZ and LHR-YYT.


Pretty sure they weren’t domestic configured 319s.
They were the same two that did the LHR runs, with an enhanced Biz product .
 
amc737
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:00 am

I believe 17 Air Canada 737-Max-8s have been to Heathrow, C-FSCY to C-FTJV with the exception of C-FSOI which are fleet numbers 501-517

Amc737
 
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Polot
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:17 am

TUGMASTER wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

Yes, they are the domestic configured 737s, which have replaced the domestic configured A319s previously used on LHR-YHZ and LHR-YYT.


Pretty sure they weren’t domestic configured 319s.
They were the same two that did the LHR runs, with an enhanced Biz product .

No they had the domestic hard product. They were only two with ETOPS though.

amc737 wrote:
I believe 17 Air Canada 737-Max-8s have been to Heathrow, C-FSCY to C-FTJV with the exception of C-FSOI which are fleet numbers 501-517

Amc737

Yes only the first 17 or so Maxes are ETOPS.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:42 am

I asked the ETOPS question on the main Air Canada thread so good to get an answer here. YHZ/YYT-LHR is a short hop frankly, and we only saw ships 501-517 as stated. What's the difference in fit? Bigger life rafts?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:48 am

If the range is on the limit they can always file Dublin or something like that as a destination (and Halifax the other way) then refile en route when they have covered enough of the distance. It's done with widebodies after all.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:50 am

Polot wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

Yes, they are the domestic configured 737s, which have replaced the domestic configured A319s previously used on LHR-YHZ and LHR-YYT.


Pretty sure they weren’t domestic configured 319s.
They were the same two that did the LHR runs, with an enhanced Biz product .

No they had the domestic hard product. They were only two with ETOPS though.



Ahh yes, that was it.. the only two that had etops
Oops , my bad, thank you for correcting the grey matter.
 
LH982
Posts: 289
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:53 am

orlandocfi wrote:
Westjet is also flying their Max8s across the Atlantic. These hops across the pond are well within the capability of the Max…there are longer segments being flown by other Max operators.



Yes, Westjet use the Max8 on YYZ-DUB, which is just over 2800 nautical miles.
 
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Polot
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:56 am

skipness1E wrote:
I asked the ETOPS question on the main Air Canada thread so good to get an answer here. YHZ/YYT-LHR is a short hop frankly, and we only saw ships 501-517 as stated. What's the difference in fit? Bigger life rafts?

In addition to possible equipment differences ETOPS requires different maintenance procedures. This makes maintaining ETOPS status more expensive, which is why many airlines are usually selective on which narrow bodies have it when a majority of their narrowbody network doesn’t need it.
 
codyul
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:00 pm

Only the ETOPS Max aircraft have rafts. The non-ETOPS are slide only.
ETOPS aircraft will also have bigger survival kits and extra emergency equipment.
I thought that the first *18* fins were ETOPS, but I could have remembered that incorrectly.
AC ETOPS MAXes are designated 737-8M (for maritime)
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:44 pm

For comparison’s sake Icelandair and Gol are flying KEF-SEA and CUN-BSB with the 737MAX which are both between 3100-3200nm. That would put Toronto, Montreal, and Ottawa within range of LHR if Air Canada wanted to stretch the range of the 737-8 (although winter headwinds may cause weight restrictions or fuel stops). I doubt they would use a 737 MAX on any of those routes since it doesn’t have full flat business class seats in the Air Canada configuration.
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:55 pm

FINs 501-517 are equipped and maintained to ETOPS 180 minute standards.

As correctly noted, in the cabin they are equipped with life rafts, survival gear and enhanced cargo hold fire detection and suppression facilities.

In the cockpit, they are equipped with ADS/CPDLC, HF radios, 8.33 KHz channel spacing and SELCAL/SATCOM.

Various combinations of these are required for operation on the North Atlantic and into the UK and EU Countries. They also comply with Pacific standards for operations to Hawaii.

Physically, and with regard to performance, (engines, weights, etc) they are identical to the rest of the fleet. As Air Canada has always done, the domestic business class cabin is sold as Premium Economy on the Atlantic. They did this with the A319 and some versions of the A330 and 767.
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: Air Canada 737 MAX to London England

Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:04 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
Yes, they are the domestic configured 737s, which have replaced the domestic configured A319s previously used on LHR-YHZ and LHR-YYT.


The A319 only flew LHR-YYT, never LHR-YHZ. Due to ETOPS requirements and restrictions, AC’s A319s wouldn’t have the range for LHR-YHZ. The route was flown by a 767-300 until replaced with the 737.

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