USAirKid wrote:

YVAMWB1900 wrote:

I'm sure it's going to take quite awhile to get all of NK's aircraft painted in to JetBlue's livery.
What are the odds that we are going to see some interesting Hybrid liveries between the two?

I think the odds are Zero. Hybrid liveries really aren't a thing anymore. (They weren't in the AS/VX, WN/FL, DL/NW, UA/CO, or AA/US mergers.)

Airlines in the middle of mergers just tend to repaint the planes into the surviving carrier's livery ASAP.

Given the different products between B6 and NK, I expect that the merger will look much more like the WN/FL integration where the Southwest product never flew under the Airtran brand or vice versa. B6 remove several NK airplanes at a time to update them to the B6 product and livery, moving them over from being sold as NK flights to being sold as B6 flights. This'll take some coordination, and B6 may or may not be upto the task.

I was thinking. If and when this all gets approved and the gets the green light. Could we at least see B6 turn on the “free WiFi” thats currently already on the NK planes (if any) and roll out the soft product (drinks and snacks) to the NK fleet while the hard product is switched to B6 standards?

UA444 wrote:

DenverBrian wrote:

I see "merger" but this sure seems to be an acquisition. I doubt we'll see the Spirit name in three years.

All mergers are acquisitions and in this one, B6 has made it clear that it’s a complete takeover.

They don't call it the A department; they call it the M&A department.

DenverBrian wrote:

I see "merger" but this sure seems to be an acquisition. I doubt we'll see the Spirit name in three years.

No, It will be a Merger. It depends on who the controlling carrier will be. I was at United when the UA/CO merger happened, there was a LOT of talk about moving the WHQ to IAH. Until? The UAL BOD came out and firmly stated. The Hometown would be Chicago and the Name on the Building and on the Airplanes, Would be United.
A lot of S-CO people left the company as did a lot of S-UA people. But Delta/Northwest and. USAir/American happened at the same time and United wound up with people from American. Delta, Northwest, and USAir. Heck! American wanted some of their people BACK.

BlueBaller wrote:

NameOmitted wrote:

After what AS paid in a bidding war for VX, I'm guessing there are a few smiles in SeaTac over the $1B premium B6 paid.

Correct me if I’m wrong but ALK paid 4B in 2016 dollars compared to JBUs 3.8 in today’s. Where’s the premium? Not to mention ALK is about to become extremely vulnerable due to their current network which focuses on transcons and regional strongholds, which is exactly what JetBlue is working to get away from with the acquisition.

Huh?? JetBlue has almost no presence in any of Alaska's strongholds, how are they vulnerable? Is JetBlue going to start flying to Spokane, RDM and the state of Alaska? Alaska has a consistent product with real domestic F and Economy Comfort/+ on every aircraft. JetBlue has a head spinning mix of aircraft layouts (like a box of chocolates ) with only their version of economy comfort/+ as their best seat of any kind on most of their aircraft, so you never know which layout you are going to get. Personally, unless I get to fly Mint, I will pick Alaska 100% of the time over JetBlue.

I wonder what kind of effect this will have on certain airports like LBE & ACY (them especially).

Jetport wrote:

BlueBaller wrote:

NameOmitted wrote:

After what AS paid in a bidding war for VX, I'm guessing there are a few smiles in SeaTac over the $1B premium B6 paid.

Correct me if I’m wrong but ALK paid 4B in 2016 dollars compared to JBUs 3.8 in today’s. Where’s the premium? Not to mention ALK is about to become extremely vulnerable due to their current network which focuses on transcons and regional strongholds, which is exactly what JetBlue is working to get away from with the acquisition.

Huh?? JetBlue has almost no presence in any of Alaska's strongholds, how are they vulnerable? Is JetBlue going to start flying to Spokane, RDM and the state of Alaska? Alaska has a consistent product with real domestic F and Economy Comfort/+ on every aircraft. JetBlue has a head spinning mix of aircraft layouts (like a box of chocolates ) with only their version of economy comfort/+ as their best seat of any kind on most of their aircraft, so you never know which layout you are going to get. Personally, unless I get to fly Mint, I will pick Alaska 100% of the time over JetBlue.

JetBlue really need to bring their Y+ product up to AS/DL standards, especially if they aren't going to offer domestic F on most routes. Complimentary drinks, extra service, perhaps a unique snack offering.

FARmd90 wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

YVAMWB1900 wrote:

I'm sure it's going to take quite awhile to get all of NK's aircraft painted in to JetBlue's livery.
What are the odds that we are going to see some interesting Hybrid liveries between the two?

I think the odds are Zero. Hybrid liveries really aren't a thing anymore. (They weren't in the AS/VX, WN/FL, DL/NW, UA/CO, or AA/US mergers.)

Airlines in the middle of mergers just tend to repaint the planes into the surviving carrier's livery ASAP.

Given the different products between B6 and NK, I expect that the merger will look much more like the WN/FL integration where the Southwest product never flew under the Airtran brand or vice versa. B6 remove several NK airplanes at a time to update them to the B6 product and livery, moving them over from being sold as NK flights to being sold as B6 flights. This'll take some coordination, and B6 may or may not be upto the task.

I was thinking. If and when this all gets approved and the gets the green light. Could we at least see B6 turn on the “free WiFi” thats currently already on the NK planes (if any) and roll out the soft product (drinks and snacks) to the NK fleet while the hard product is switched to B6 standards?

Anything is possible.

The question is those things cost money to offer and the question is does the current NK revenue model support adding those costs?

Also, glancing at the seatmap, I'm curious if there is enough galley capacity on NK's airplanes to offer a B6 amount of drinks and snacks. It looks like those planes have been space flexed to the max.

The biggest issue I'd put forth is that it confuses the product, when integration is already a confusing time for what the onboard product is.

USAirKid wrote:

Also, glancing at the seatmap, I'm curious if there is enough galley capacity on NK's airplanes to offer a B6 amount of drinks and snacks. It looks like those planes have been space flexed to the max.

Interesting point. AS was stuck with some horrible galley and lav configurations on the ex-VX aircraft. Retrofitting was cost-prohibitive…those aircraft were the first AS got rid of.

There's no doubt this is a clear as day acquisition and JetBlue will be the remaining company.

Spirit will, and I'd imagine as quickly as possible, be whittled down as aircraft are reconfigured, their staff retrained, and those resources then used to expand JetBlue's network. Way before the acquisition was contemplated, JetBlue would have been analyzing organic expansion options; if they weren't, the board and senior management would be considered derelict. Speaking of analysis, billion dollar public companies don't form strategies by getting a bunch of people in a room with a whiteboard and sticky notes. McKinsey, Bain, Boston Consulting, et. al. are likely involved and advising on the post-transaction strategy. That would be an expectation in getting the acquisition financed. Just because A-net doesn't see stuff happening doesn't mean there aren't concrete plans already in place.

As for DoJ approval, JetBlue's already tipped their hand. The number of people benefiting through lower fares from JetBlue expanding will be greater than if NK/F9 merged. The big 3 don't match NK/F9 fares on a large scale because of the disparity in product. They'll match on competing departure times or 5 token seats per plane where the ULCC have multiple flights. They *do* match JetBlue more aggressively as it's perceived as a "real airline" competitor. It's what they've referred to as the "JetBlue" affect and it's real and calculable. JetBlue will apply their expanded resources on more major competitive major routes (O&D or connecting) driving down the cost of more seats on more heavily traveled routes for more people. We'll see what the math is between what I've described and the loss of niche market point-to-point flying that will cease once JetBlue completes the integration. And nature abhors a vacuum. The niche point-to-point routes JetBlue abandons will create expansion opportunities for the remaining ULCC.

As for NK staff, they'll have more bid opportunities, more domiciles to live in, more advancement opportunities, and be paid more money. It's hard to see them harmed in the acquisition.

All this is just my opinion but I betcha a lot of what I shared comes to fruition.

FlyingSicilian wrote:

Spirit just announced an IAH crew base after opening a MX base. Would be great to keep the pressure on UA but I doubt jetBlue can handle it. Time will tell.

Eh. The next round of mergers will be UA and new B6, then DL and AS, then AA and F9.

BarryH wrote:

There's no doubt this is a clear as day acquisition and JetBlue will be the remaining company.

Spirit will, and I'd imagine as quickly as possible, be whittled down as aircraft are reconfigured, their staff retrained, and those resources then used to expand JetBlue's network. Way before the acquisition was contemplated, JetBlue would have been analyzing organic expansion options; if they weren't, the board and senior management would be considered derelict. Speaking of analysis, billion dollar public companies don't form strategies by getting a bunch of people in a room with a whiteboard and sticky notes. McKinsey, Bain, Boston Consulting, et. al. are likely involved and advising on the post-transaction strategy. That would be an expectation in getting the acquisition financed. Just because A-net doesn't see stuff happening doesn't mean there aren't concrete plans already in place.

As for DoJ approval, JetBlue's already tipped their hand. The number of people benefiting through lower fares from JetBlue expanding will be greater than if NK/F9 merged. The big 3 don't match NK/F9 fares on a large scale because of the disparity in product. They'll match on competing departure times or 5 token seats per plane where the ULCC have multiple flights. They *do* match JetBlue more aggressively as it's perceived as a "real airline" competitor. It's what they've referred to as the "JetBlue" affect and it's real and calculable. JetBlue will apply their expanded resources on more major competitive major routes (O&D or connecting) driving down the cost of more seats on more heavily traveled routes for more people. We'll see what the math is between what I've described and the loss of niche market point-to-point flying that will cease once JetBlue completes the integration. And nature abhors a vacuum. The niche point-to-point routes JetBlue abandons will create expansion opportunities for the remaining ULCC.

As for NK staff, they'll have more bid opportunities, more domiciles to live in, more advancement opportunities, and be paid more money. It's hard to see them harmed in the acquisition.

All this is just my opinion but I betcha a lot of what I shared comes to fruition.

This is the most intelligent commentary on the JetBlue-Spirit tie-up I've read on a.net thus far.

MavyWavyATR wrote:

I wonder what kind of effect this will have on certain airports like LBE & ACY (them especially).

Hopefully the Avelo affect.

TWA772LR wrote:

FlyingSicilian wrote:

Spirit just announced an IAH crew base after opening a MX base. Would be great to keep the pressure on UA but I doubt jetBlue can handle it. Time will tell.

Eh. The next round of mergers will be UA and new B6, then DL and AS, then AA and F9.

Nah, after this, the only other one that would make a lick of sense is AA/AS. While I think that should happen, it won’t anytime soon because AA’s financials are a mess.

BarryH wrote:

There's no doubt this is a clear as day acquisition and JetBlue will be the remaining company.

Spirit will, and I'd imagine as quickly as possible, be whittled down as aircraft are reconfigured, their staff retrained, and those resources then used to expand JetBlue's network. Way before the acquisition was contemplated, JetBlue would have been analyzing organic expansion options; if they weren't, the board and senior management would be considered derelict. Speaking of analysis, billion dollar public companies don't form strategies by getting a bunch of people in a room with a whiteboard and sticky notes. McKinsey, Bain, Boston Consulting, et. al. are likely involved and advising on the post-transaction strategy. That would be an expectation in getting the acquisition financed. Just because A-net doesn't see stuff happening doesn't mean there aren't concrete plans already in place.

As for DoJ approval, JetBlue's already tipped their hand. The number of people benefiting through lower fares from JetBlue expanding will be greater than if NK/F9 merged. The big 3 don't match NK/F9 fares on a large scale because of the disparity in product. They'll match on competing departure times or 5 token seats per plane where the ULCC have multiple flights. They *do* match JetBlue more aggressively as it's perceived as a "real airline" competitor. It's what they've referred to as the "JetBlue" affect and it's real and calculable. JetBlue will apply their expanded resources on more major competitive major routes (O&D or connecting) driving down the cost of more seats on more heavily traveled routes for more people. We'll see what the math is between what I've described and the loss of niche market point-to-point flying that will cease once JetBlue completes the integration. And nature abhors a vacuum. The niche point-to-point routes JetBlue abandons will create expansion opportunities for the remaining ULCC.

As for NK staff, they'll have more bid opportunities, more domiciles to live in, more advancement opportunities, and be paid more money. It's hard to see them harmed in the acquisition.

All this is just my opinion but I betcha a lot of what I shared comes to fruition.

Well said.

There is just no way JetBlue went into this without having a really good idea how it would go.

This was a go big or just stay as the current JetBlue forever deal. Now could there be issues sure but not long ago all the experts here said f9 would win out.

TWA772LR wrote:

FlyingSicilian wrote:

Spirit just announced an IAH crew base after opening a MX base. Would be great to keep the pressure on UA but I doubt jetBlue can handle it. Time will tell.

Eh. The next round of mergers will be UA and new B6, then DL and AS, then AA and F9.

No way would you ever see United and the new JetBlue. Blue just made sure they were the buyer not the one being bought.

BTV290 wrote:

I feel like much of the discussion surrounding what the combined airline will look like (route map specifically) hinges on the mergers of the past--where airlines were considering what a combination of the existing airlines would look like. Do the hubs compliment each other, do the fleets compliment each other, market access, etc. I think, especially with how the last couple weeks played out, that this needs to be looked at much more like B6 just bought a whole pile of planes and associated staff to work them. I think the future route map will be much more about what B6 has wanted to do, and less about what NK does.

True. Products/culture vastly different. As the "merger" integration happens, "new" service will be announced by B6 as "expansion". B6 route planners must be having a lot of fun planning this.

MavyWavyATR wrote:

I wonder what kind of effect this will have on certain airports like LBE & ACY (them especially).

Zero competition in ACY, and it pulls from both Philly and up to Newark.

I can see this staying, maybe even expanding in summer.

USAirKid wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

I think the odds are Zero. Hybrid liveries really aren't a thing anymore. (They weren't in the AS/VX, WN/FL, DL/NW, UA/CO, or AA/US mergers.)

Airlines in the middle of mergers just tend to repaint the planes into the surviving carrier's livery ASAP.

Given the different products between B6 and NK, I expect that the merger will look much more like the WN/FL integration where the Southwest product never flew under the Airtran brand or vice versa. B6 remove several NK airplanes at a time to update them to the B6 product and livery, moving them over from being sold as NK flights to being sold as B6 flights. This'll take some coordination, and B6 may or may not be upto the task.

I was thinking. If and when this all gets approved and the gets the green light. Could we at least see B6 turn on the “free WiFi” thats currently already on the NK planes (if any) and roll out the soft product (drinks and snacks) to the NK fleet while the hard product is switched to B6 standards?

Anything is possible.

The question is those things cost money to offer and the question is does the current NK revenue model support adding those costs?

Also, glancing at the seatmap, I'm curious if there is enough galley capacity on NK's airplanes to offer a B6 amount of drinks and snacks. It looks like those planes have been space flexed to the max.

The biggest issue I'd put forth is that it confuses the product, when integration is already a confusing time for what the onboard product is.

Paint and Interior shops are going to be busy for the next couple of years…. (Lake City, Stevens, AAR)

The only crossover product from NK I’d like to see integrated into B6 would be for all non-mint core configured planes to have a few of the “big front seats”

Well….and maybe the Cup-O-Noodles too! Lol…

BarryH wrote:

There's no doubt this is a clear as day acquisition and JetBlue will be the remaining company.

Spirit will, and I'd imagine as quickly as possible, be whittled down as aircraft are reconfigured, their staff retrained, and those resources then used to expand JetBlue's network. Way before the acquisition was contemplated, JetBlue would have been analyzing organic expansion options; if they weren't, the board and senior management would be considered derelict. Speaking of analysis, billion dollar public companies don't form strategies by getting a bunch of people in a room with a whiteboard and sticky notes. McKinsey, Bain, Boston Consulting, et. al. are likely involved and advising on the post-transaction strategy. That would be an expectation in getting the acquisition financed. Just because A-net doesn't see stuff happening doesn't mean there aren't concrete plans already in place.

As for DoJ approval, JetBlue's already tipped their hand. The number of people benefiting through lower fares from JetBlue expanding will be greater than if NK/F9 merged. The big 3 don't match NK/F9 fares on a large scale because of the disparity in product. They'll match on competing departure times or 5 token seats per plane where the ULCC have multiple flights. They *do* match JetBlue more aggressively as it's perceived as a "real airline" competitor. It's what they've referred to as the "JetBlue" affect and it's real and calculable. JetBlue will apply their expanded resources on more major competitive major routes (O&D or connecting) driving down the cost of more seats on more heavily traveled routes for more people. We'll see what the math is between what I've described and the loss of niche market point-to-point flying that will cease once JetBlue completes the integration. And nature abhors a vacuum. The niche point-to-point routes JetBlue abandons will create expansion opportunities for the remaining ULCC.

As for NK staff, they'll have more bid opportunities, more domiciles to live in, more advancement opportunities, and be paid more money. It's hard to see them harmed in the acquisition.

All this is just my opinion but I betcha a lot of what I shared comes to fruition.

This is exactly it!

Yesterday the US gained another “legacy style” airline.

lostsound wrote:

I feel like they might take the A319CEOs in the short-term for faster growth and to further accelerate the E190 retirements, leaving the fleet with only two types. I do wonder if they'll continue to order more A220s in the next few years.

How long would the CEOs be in the fleet though? For B6 to paint them fit them with their new cabin and then deploy them they must see a use for them long term. Whats keeping them from doing what WN did with the 717 after airTran. I can see them selling those 319s to United or trading them with a lessor for more 220s

Also correct me if im wrong but doesn't Spirit have some of them parked?

FlyingElvii wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

I was thinking. If and when this all gets approved and the gets the green light. Could we at least see B6 turn on the “free WiFi” thats currently already on the NK planes (if any) and roll out the soft product (drinks and snacks) to the NK fleet while the hard product is switched to B6 standards?

Anything is possible.

The question is those things cost money to offer and the question is does the current NK revenue model support adding those costs?

Also, glancing at the seatmap, I'm curious if there is enough galley capacity on NK's airplanes to offer a B6 amount of drinks and snacks. It looks like those planes have been space flexed to the max.

The biggest issue I'd put forth is that it confuses the product, when integration is already a confusing time for what the onboard product is.

Paint and Interior shops are going to be busy for the next couple of years…. (Lake City, Stevens, AAR)

Not sure about those MROs. Interiors will probably be done at SAL, paint at VQQ or MCN. It really seems this is a full B6 takeover, B6 is in heavy contracts with MRO Holdings for the MX and Dean Baldwin and MRO Holdings for the paint. But, with the volume needing to be accomplished, who knows what MROs will be chosen to keep things on the B6 timeline (whenever it gets released). However, upgrading the interior is going to require B/E, Airbus, Thales and Viasat...all of which are already heavily involved with Aeroman/SAL with the last modification of A320s. Once Hangar 7 comes online, I wouldn't be surprised to see all of Hanar 6 at AEROMAN (up to 15 A320s) become a full B6 thing.

Runway765 wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

FlyingSicilian wrote:

Spirit just announced an IAH crew base after opening a MX base. Would be great to keep the pressure on UA but I doubt jetBlue can handle it. Time will tell.

Eh. The next round of mergers will be UA and new B6, then DL and AS, then AA and F9.

Nah, after this, the only other one that would make a lick of sense is AA/AS. While I think that should happen, it won’t anytime soon because AA’s financials are a mess.

I don’t see AA/AS happening. Much of the AS route network isn’t profitable at AA’s costs, or so the story goes. Likewise, I’ll be interested to see what percentage of the NK route network survives at the B6 costs.

USAirKid wrote:

Runway765 wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

Eh. The next round of mergers will be UA and new B6, then DL and AS, then AA and F9.

Nah, after this, the only other one that would make a lick of sense is AA/AS. While I think that should happen, it won’t anytime soon because AA’s financials are a mess.

I don’t see AA/AS happening. Much of the AS route network isn’t profitable at AA’s costs, or so the story goes. Likewise, I’ll be interested to see what percentage of the NK route network survives at the B6 costs.

I don't see any other mergers occurring between the top six airlines unless the DOJ falls asleep badly. I could see Frontier being absorbed by someone at some point, though.

MavyWavyATR wrote:

I wonder what kind of effect this will have on certain airports like LBE & ACY (them especially).

I think B6 will keep the ACY- Florida runs as they are multiple flights daily as opposed to just one a day or 4x weekly. ACY-BOS/ATL will probably be gone. MYR is the wildcard to me as it is run 2x daily from ACY. I do feel that if B6 was to leave though, G4 or Avelo would jump in quickly with the MCO/SFB and FLL routes

Midwestindy wrote:

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

I am still trying to gather my thoughts on what antitrust regulators will make of this proposed deal and what the best positioning piece is for B6. For one, the ULCC market has plenty of new entrants that can fill the hole.

The new entrants will not fill the hole anytime soon, NK is something like 8-10x the size of Breeze, Sun Country, Avelo, & Aha combined.

B6SpiritofEWR wrote:

MavyWavyATR wrote:

I wonder what kind of effect this will have on certain airports like LBE & ACY (them especially).

Hopefully the Avelo affect.

Avelo is less than daily on nearly every route, and only has 10 aircraft currently.

Losing NK's service will be a sizable blow, as any service replacing it will likely be less frequent and on smaller aircraft, or no airline might enter at all.

At least in LBE's case, Breeze already serves PIT, and Allegiant has a base at PIT. It really seems unlikely service gets replaced, unless LBE ponies up some major fund to attract Avelo. Even then, it will be less service than they had previously.

ACY isn't at risk.

LBE isn't entitled to air service. One wonders if the government support (TSA and police, other support functions, etc) for three ULCC flights per day from an airport within short driving distance of a major airport is even worth it, or if Spirit are merely enjoying a subsidy. It may be nice for the community to have nonstop flights to Myrtle Beach, but if it goes away there is no real loss to the consumer who can drive a short distance to find many more flights.

There are rumblings that JetBlue the 321CEO fleet will go from 200 seats to 212, possibly 218. And the 321NEO will have a higher seat layout above 200 seats, but not as high as Spirits layout. This is all once they start reconfiguration.

SoCalFlyer wrote:

There are rumblings that JetBlue the 321CEO fleet will go from 200 seats to 212, possibly 218. And the 321NEO will have a higher seat layout above 200 seats, but not as high as Spirits layout. This is all once they start reconfiguration.

I heard also heard a rumbling that JetBlue wants to wack the 190 pilot base at mco for a 223 FLL pilot base

Midwestindy wrote:

trueblew wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

The new entrants will not fill the hole anytime soon, NK is something like 8-10x the size of Breeze, Sun Country, Avelo, & Aha combined.



Avelo is less than daily on nearly every route, and only has 10 aircraft currently.

Losing NK's service will be a sizable blow, as any service replacing it will likely be less frequent and on smaller aircraft, or no airline might enter at all.

At least in LBE's case, Breeze already serves PIT, and Allegiant has a base at PIT. It really seems unlikely service gets replaced, unless LBE ponies up some major fund to attract Avelo. Even then, it will be less service than they had previously.

ACY isn't at risk.

LBE isn't entitled to air service. One wonders if the government support (TSA and police, other support functions, etc) for three ULCC flights per day from an airport within short driving distance of a major airport is even worth it, or if Spirit are merely enjoying a subsidy. It may be nice for the community to have nonstop flights to Myrtle Beach, but if it goes away there is no real loss to the consumer who can drive a short distance to find many more flights.

"No real loss?"

There is an obvious loss to the consumer, LBE is 1-1:30 hours from PIT. Customers now have to add hours to their journeys anytime they want to fly somewhere, and those journeys will likely be more expensive because a)The largest ULCC carrier in the PIT area no longer exists & b)PIT fares are higher than LBE fares c)PIT parking is infinitely more expensive given parking is free at LBE.

The nothing really changes/just drive to a bigger market argument, is a slippery slope.

I agree that argument is a slippery slope. But they are the same market. It's one thing to have a two+ airport market like NYC, South Florida, SoCal, etc. But PIT/LBE and CLT/CCR are different. All this infrastructure for a handful of ULCC flights so lower-income people can take vacations. It isn't exactly necessary or additive to the economy as a whole.

Brianpr3 wrote:

SoCalFlyer wrote:

There are rumblings that JetBlue the 321CEO fleet will go from 200 seats to 212, possibly 218. And the 321NEO will have a higher seat layout above 200 seats, but not as high as Spirits layout. This is all once they start reconfiguration.

I heard also heard a rumbling that JetBlue wants to wack the 190 pilot base at mco for a 223 FLL pilot base

I'm on a town hall right now that JetBlue management is hosting. I think it's safe to say we will add seats lol. It's been asked, and they are basically eluding to changing the entire fleet configuration.

SoCalFlyer wrote:

Brianpr3 wrote:

SoCalFlyer wrote:

There are rumblings that JetBlue the 321CEO fleet will go from 200 seats to 212, possibly 218. And the 321NEO will have a higher seat layout above 200 seats, but not as high as Spirits layout. This is all once they start reconfiguration.

I heard also heard a rumbling that JetBlue wants to wack the 190 pilot base at mco for a 223 FLL pilot base

I'm on a town hall right now that JetBlue management is hosting. I think it's safe to say we will add seats lol. It's been asked, and they are basically eluding to changing the entire fleet configuration.

That’s sad to see. The legroom was one of their selling points. It seems like JetBlue’s value proposition of friendly, high-comfort economy airline is slowly fading.

Brianpr3 wrote:

SoCalFlyer wrote:

There are rumblings that JetBlue the 321CEO fleet will go from 200 seats to 212, possibly 218. And the 321NEO will have a higher seat layout above 200 seats, but not as high as Spirits layout. This is all once they start reconfiguration.

I heard also heard a rumbling that JetBlue wants to wack the 190 pilot base at mco for a 223 FLL pilot base

Well the first part is no rumble. The mco 190 is closing effective April and the displacement bid will be out next week. Nothing has been officially said about another 220 base yet.

avi8 wrote:

SoCalFlyer wrote:

Brianpr3 wrote:

I heard also heard a rumbling that JetBlue wants to wack the 190 pilot base at mco for a 223 FLL pilot base

I'm on a town hall right now that JetBlue management is hosting. I think it's safe to say we will add seats lol. It's been asked, and they are basically eluding to changing the entire fleet configuration.

That’s sad to see. The legroom was one of their selling points. It seems like JetBlue’s value proposition of friendly, high-comfort economy airline is slowly fading.

I think they are going towards adding the big front seats or a domestic business class, that’s what it sounds like, although Nothing is definite. I’m guessing configuring to having “big front seats” while at the same time adding more economy seats and keeping some leg room.

FlyingElvii wrote:

MavyWavyATR wrote:

I wonder what kind of effect this will have on certain airports like LBE & ACY (them especially).

Zero competition in ACY, and it pulls from both Philly and up to Newark.

I can see this staying, maybe even expanding in summer.

ACY does NOT pull from PHL nor EWR YGBKM! ACY is a purely Leisure destination too far east to get pax from PHL or EWR as it's a 90-100 min Drive from Either and their OWN airports are Majors with service to darn near anywhere. ACY pulls from South Jersey and Maybe from Delaware though Wilmington usually drives up to PHL or takes Amtrak into PHL. ACY is a local deal and I DOUBT anybody from PHL or the EWR area would bypass their own airports to want to fly out of ACY. I haven't lived at Home in nearly 50 years and I know that much as I had a place in Atlantic City. and it was a 90min ride down the ACY Expressway from PHL. Now? I live in Northern California and get there flyng SFO-PHL.

What gets me is Jetblue has been a very conservative airline for decades. This doesn't seem like their normal playbook.

If they can get the merger through, it will give them an amazing position in the post-pandemic world where leisure travel is king.

The problem is, if business travel doesn't come back and or we enter a recession, and or rates stay elevated for a few years and or covid keeps being a problem, AA/UA/DL are looking at restructuring. They just have too much debt to survive a continued slowdown. If any of that happens, paying a large merger premium for access to planes, gates and staff (which in a large recession would be easy to add) doesn't seem to make sense.

SoCalFlyer wrote:

avi8 wrote:

SoCalFlyer wrote:

I'm on a town hall right now that JetBlue management is hosting. I think it's safe to say we will add seats lol. It's been asked, and they are basically eluding to changing the entire fleet configuration.

That’s sad to see. The legroom was one of their selling points. It seems like JetBlue’s value proposition of friendly, high-comfort economy airline is slowly fading.

I think they are going towards adding the big front seats or a domestic business class, that’s what it sounds like, although Nothing is definite. I’m guessing configuring to having “big front seats” while at the same time adding more economy seats and keeping some leg room.

Are they going to rip off the small galleys and add vending machines? Because adding seats on the 321's is going to be impossible with our current configuration. It's not going to work if they want 4 lavs on the 321 and keeping the pantry.

fastmover wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

FlyingSicilian wrote:

Spirit just announced an IAH crew base after opening a MX base. Would be great to keep the pressure on UA but I doubt jetBlue can handle it. Time will tell.

Eh. The next round of mergers will be UA and new B6, then DL and AS, then AA and F9.

No way would you ever see United and the new JetBlue. Blue just made sure they were the buyer not the one being bought.

I can't see what UAL would Get with B6 with the Exception of their JFK Hub station, which? Might be all they'd need to Do a merger like that in the First place.
I have to admit? Just getting a hub at JFK might sweeten the Pot but it would surely take away from the EWR hub and be overkill for that one piece of property. But?
I Have seen stranger things happen. UAL never really went in "Whole Hog" for JFK while I was at United. They Kept "piecemealing" it .. Put a little in, take a little out. Now that the 747's are gone? they could really make a run into JFK. Especially with the abundance of 777's at their disposal. but taking on B6 in the process? that might be a Bridge too far.

avi8 wrote:

SoCalFlyer wrote:

Brianpr3 wrote:

I heard also heard a rumbling that JetBlue wants to wack the 190 pilot base at mco for a 223 FLL pilot base

I'm on a town hall right now that JetBlue management is hosting. I think it's safe to say we will add seats lol. It's been asked, and they are basically eluding to changing the entire fleet configuration.

That’s sad to see. The legroom was one of their selling points. It seems like JetBlue’s value proposition of friendly, high-comfort economy airline is slowly fading.

I tend to agree and hope this isn't true. However, perhaps JetBlue are planning to keep the more generous legroom in most of the cabin and add in a few rows in the rear where the Blue Basic fare customers can sit. Similar to my experience on Delta. It feels like the back of the plane has legroom on par with Spirit (very cramped) but the rest of Y is normal and, of course, there is Y+ with a legroom on par with JetBlue's normal Y. Depending on how JetBlue execute such a mission, they could add some BFS-type product and additional Y seats while keeping current cabin density and average seat pitch above the legacies' products.

Any talk about changing B6 (for good or for worse) probably has more to do with creating a favorable context in the eyes of the DOJ. Higher capacity planes ameliorates the anti-trust issue that B6 retro-fits will take out seats resulting in high fares. I think this strategy (more seats) would help maintain more of the NK network, since B6 risks appearing (in eyes of DOJ) to only want to go after legacy trunk routes that already have full-service competition, ignoring ULCC type market effects that thrive on high-capacity utilization. This concept is no doubt the contribution of Ted Christie doing what it takes to make sure this deal gets done, ensuring B6 can maintain that low-fare pressure in more markets, if not only to increase the odds of merger approval!

FARmd90 wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

YVAMWB1900 wrote:

I'm sure it's going to take quite awhile to get all of NK's aircraft painted in to JetBlue's livery.
What are the odds that we are going to see some interesting Hybrid liveries between the two?

I think the odds are Zero. Hybrid liveries really aren't a thing anymore. (They weren't in the AS/VX, WN/FL, DL/NW, UA/CO, or AA/US mergers.)

Airlines in the middle of mergers just tend to repaint the planes into the surviving carrier's livery ASAP.

Given the different products between B6 and NK, I expect that the merger will look much more like the WN/FL integration where the Southwest product never flew under the Airtran brand or vice versa. B6 remove several NK airplanes at a time to update them to the B6 product and livery, moving them over from being sold as NK flights to being sold as B6 flights. This'll take some coordination, and B6 may or may not be upto the task.

I was thinking. If and when this all gets approved and the gets the green light. Could we at least see B6 turn on the “free WiFi” thats currently already on the NK planes (if any) and roll out the soft product (drinks and snacks) to the NK fleet while the hard product is switched to B6 standards?

I recall Alaska had to very quickly repaint all of the Virgin aircraft due to licensing or branding or something to that affect that was costing them milions of dollars. Would the same apply here to B6?

strfyr51 wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

MavyWavyATR wrote:

I wonder what kind of effect this will have on certain airports like LBE & ACY (them especially).

Zero competition in ACY, and it pulls from both Philly and up to Newark.

I can see this staying, maybe even expanding in summer.

ACY does NOT pull from PHL nor EWR YGBKM! ACY is a purely Leisure destination too far east to get pax from PHL or EWR as it's a 90-100 min Drive from Either and their OWN airports are Majors with service to darn near anywhere. ACY pulls from South Jersey and Maybe from Delaware though Wilmington usually drives up to PHL or takes Amtrak into PHL. ACY is a local deal and I DOUBT anybody from PHL or the EWR area would bypass their own airports to want to fly out of ACY. I haven't lived at Home in nearly 50 years and I know that much as I had a place in Atlantic City. and it was a 90min ride down the ACY Expressway from PHL. Now? I live in Northern California and get there flyng SFO-PHL.

ACY very much does pull a good portion, probably most, of their clients from areas which are catchment areas for PHL and EWR. South Jersey around ACY is very rural Pine Barrens. Monmouth, Ocean and Mercer counties are all closer to EWR but are a huge percentage of ACY fliers.

Will Jetblue keep the A319s or retire them with A220s entering the fleet.

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

I think the odds are Zero. Hybrid liveries really aren't a thing anymore. (They weren't in the AS/VX, WN/FL, DL/NW, UA/CO, or AA/US mergers.)

Airlines in the middle of mergers just tend to repaint the planes into the surviving carrier's livery ASAP.

Given the different products between B6 and NK, I expect that the merger will look much more like the WN/FL integration where the Southwest product never flew under the Airtran brand or vice versa. B6 remove several NK airplanes at a time to update them to the B6 product and livery, moving them over from being sold as NK flights to being sold as B6 flights. This'll take some coordination, and B6 may or may not be upto the task.

I was thinking. If and when this all gets approved and the gets the green light. Could we at least see B6 turn on the “free WiFi” thats currently already on the NK planes (if any) and roll out the soft product (drinks and snacks) to the NK fleet while the hard product is switched to B6 standards?

I recall Alaska had to very quickly repaint all of the Virgin aircraft due to licensing or branding or something to that affect that was costing them milions of dollars. Would the same apply here to B6?

No. Virgin America were licensing the Virgin brand from Branson, thus Alaska were required to pay.

Spirit own the Spirit brand. And if one were to license the Spirit brand, I'd expect Spirit would have to pay THEM.

jetblastdubai wrote:

SumChristianus wrote:

The biggest "wow" for me is the projected fleet plan by 2027: 675 aircraft.
Imagine the network!

Imagine the IRROPS recovery when 2/3s of that fleet is on the US east coast. They're biting off a whole lot to chew on. Fleet commonality is the one thing they'll have going for them.

Can't just bulldoze the NK route network, unfortunately.

JFK is tapped on slots, BOS is physically limited on expansion by gate space and occupancy, MCO isn't going to be much better until the new terminal opens, and FLL runs into the same gate space issues. LA is restricted by LAWA's discretion on how many gates too.

Management would love to put all 180 planes in JFK but there's literally nowhere to put them.

LAS/ORD/DFW will stay, there's probably a case for shutting down the sillier "focus cities" that support small daily flight counts and wouldn't make sense with the network. This is going to look and feel like AirTran - SWA got deeper into MCO and kept the ATL base, used it as an opportunity to get deeper into FL.

The A319s are toast, the A319neo will never get delivered, and the E190 will probably be phased out around the same time a JCBA is signed. The 1997 era A320s (there's a distinct difference between the *old* A320s and the new) will be flown to the desert pretty swiftly, and I'm confident you'll see a lot of A320neos in FLL to head down to South America and the Caribbean. This is going to be a whole new airline, with a whole new set of good and bad.

My prediction is that NK lumbers on for years. That's going to provide a lot of runway for experimentation - they'll figure out what's worth continuing under the joint entity and what the dead wood is.

trueblew wrote:

avi8 wrote:

SoCalFlyer wrote:

I'm on a town hall right now that JetBlue management is hosting. I think it's safe to say we will add seats lol. It's been asked, and they are basically eluding to changing the entire fleet configuration.

That’s sad to see. The legroom was one of their selling points. It seems like JetBlue’s value proposition of friendly, high-comfort economy airline is slowly fading.

I tend to agree and hope this isn't true. However, perhaps JetBlue are planning to keep the more generous legroom in most of the cabin and add in a few rows in the rear where the Blue Basic fare customers can sit. Similar to my experience on Delta. It feels like the back of the plane has legroom on par with Spirit (very cramped) but the rest of Y is normal and, of course, there is Y+ with a legroom on par with JetBlue's normal Y. Depending on how JetBlue execute such a mission, they could add some BFS-type product and additional Y seats while keeping current cabin density and average seat pitch above the legacies' products.

The planes won't have Spirits dense seating, but I'd say it's a safe bet that we get the big front seats and extra economy seats in the back. It was mentioned that the NEO can actually seat 240 or something like that, so having only 200 seats on the NEO with all the debt they are about to take on, isn't going to work. They will need to increase capacity. Exciting for sure to see what they do with the cabins, and that's fine as long as they don't go as dense as NK, which I doubt they will.

MIflyer12 wrote:

In M&A, premium is defined as transaction price vs. pre-merger closing price. Spirit closed at $12.39/share on 2/4/22, before the first Frontier (2/7/22) merger announcement. B6 is paying $33.50. There are ~109 million SAVE shares outstanding. B6 is paying a HUGE premium.

Er, you may want to double check your numbers. Frontier (ULCC) closed at $12.39 on 2/4. Spirit (SAVE) closed at $21.73 on that date.

Prior to March 2020, the last time SAVE traded below $33 was in 2013.