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qf789
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FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:49 am

The FAA has approved Boeing’s inspection and modification plan to resume deliveries for the 787

Deliveries will resume in August with the first to be in the coming days

According to the article there is over 120 787’s that could be delivered over the next 6 months

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/faa ... eliveries/
 
Noshow
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:03 am

WSJ is paywalled. Does this mean Boeing can now clear those aircraft for delivery on its own or is the FAA still needed to check every single aircraft before delivery please?
 
JohanTally
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:19 am

Noshow wrote:
WSJ is paywalled. Does this mean Boeing can now clear those aircraft for delivery on its own or is the FAA still needed to check every single aircraft before delivery please?

The FAA isn't going to allow Boeing to self certify the 787 deliveries initially until they've proven their ability mitigate defects.

The FAA said in a statement that “its inspectors will continue to perform final inspections on newly produced 787s until the agency “is confident that:
-Boeing’s quality control and manufacturing processes consistently produce 787s that meet FAA design standards
 
Noshow
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:25 am

If deliveries still depend on the FAA's schedules and individual examination results Boeing can still not schedule delivery dates but just hope for them?
 
JohanTally
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:39 am

Noshow wrote:
If deliveries still depend on the FAA's schedules and individual examination results Boeing can still not schedule delivery dates but just hope for them?

The FAA has been working closely with Boeing and has most likely already determined which aircraft are built to the proper specifications. From earlier reports it was mentioned that FAA agreed to the steps outlined by Boeing but ultimately the paperwork was the final hurdle.
 
Noshow
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:45 am

I still don't get the practical effects of this change? Can Boeing deliver 787 right away or not? It sounds like all 787 still need individual aircraft examination by the FAA? So Boeing still needs to wait for whatever time it takes the FAA. And Boeing cannot schedule deliveries.
 
JohanTally
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:55 am

Noshow wrote:
I still don't get the practical effects of this change? Can Boeing deliver 787 right away or not? It sounds like all 787 still need individual aircraft examination by the FAA? So Boeing still needs to wait for whatever time it takes the FAA. And Boeing cannot schedule deliveries.

There are frames that were produced later not needing any rework and the FAA is aware of which ones they are. According to one aneter the production aircraft will need new windshields but I haven't seen it mentioned in recent articles.

"Boeing must still make required fixes and get FAA inspectors to approve each aircraft, the people said, asking not to be identified as the information hasn’t been publicly announced"

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/boe ... 88744.html
 
Noshow
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:16 am

Boeing must still make required fixes and get FAA inspectors to approve each aircraft, the people said, asking not to be identified as the information hasn’t been publicly announced.

This seems to be more about the production quality improvements but not about deliveries. The quoted article seems to talk about resuming "sales" but might intend to mean "deliveries"?
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:54 am

qf789 wrote:
The FAA has approved Boeing’s inspection and modification plan to resume deliveries for the 787

Deliveries will resume in August with the first to be in the coming days

According to the article there is over 120 787’s that could be delivered over the next 6 months

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/faa ... eliveries/


More like a couple years instead of 6 months. Lots of re work still to do
 
Opus99
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:05 am

Finally, let the recovery begin!
 
Avatar2go
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:27 am

Noshow wrote:
This seems to be more about the production quality improvements but not about deliveries. The quoted article seems to talk about resuming "sales" but might intend to mean "deliveries"?


Deliveries can now occur if the aircraft passes FAA inspection for the airworthiness certificate. The FAA has said availability of inspectors will not be a limiting factor in deliveries.

So it will be based on remediation progress and customer ability to take the aircraft. Boeing has already remediated numerous aircraft, but it will be a year or more to work through and deliver the entire inventory of over 100 aircraft.

This is analogous to the 737 MAX, which also still require FAA inspection prior to airworthiness certification. Both aircraft will likely continue with FAA inspection until the original inventories are cleared.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:36 am

I just hope some of the airlines who have aircraft waiting to be delivered don’t kick up a big fuss about taking them!

QR- always kick up a fuss about something

EY- probably don’t need or want the capacity.

EK- mentioned that they don’t want 787’s anymore.

BA- probably need them as fast as possible.
 
smi0006
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:44 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
I just hope some of the airlines who have aircraft waiting to be delivered don’t kick up a big fuss about taking them!

QR- always kick up a fuss about something

EY- probably don’t need or want the capacity.

EK- mentioned that they don’t want 787’s anymore.

BA- probably need them as fast as possible.


Is there a breakdown anywhere of whats is sitting waiting delivery, and the ideal order/priority for delivery? I’d imagine QF for one like BA are busting for theirs!
 
BarrenLucidity
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:34 am

AA is practically falling over itself to take their deliveries.
 
capwatts86
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:46 am

AA flew the first 787 customer acceptance flight last week.
 
Noshow
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:16 am

How about the FAA? What exactly is missing or still needs to be done before an aircraft can be handed over to the customer?
 
Avatar2go
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:00 pm

Noshow wrote:
How about the FAA? What exactly is missing or still needs to be done before an aircraft can be handed over to the customer?


In the Q2 call, Calhoun said that each aircraft requires a documentation certification package to be prepared for the FAA, prior to inspection, and that some aircraft also need further work before they are ready. He described the work as finishing up, which I took to mean those that already have had all the major issues remediated, prior to delivery.

He further said the time required was about equally split between these two activities. And that while this is going on, customers are also doing their own acceptance inspections and flights.

So I think it's a process and it's not overnight, but there should be a regular stream of deliveries that become possible, similar to the RTS of the MAX.

He didn't say how many of the stored aircraft have been remediated for the major issues, or that were remediated on the line, or don't need remediation. But my guess would be that while some may still require the major remediation, Boeing will be able to deliver at a steady rate for the rest of the year, depending on customer ability to accept.

He did say financial return on the 787 program would be bumpy for the rest of the year, since some airlines will have their compensation applied as a discount on delivery payments. But that this should even out in 2023, when he expects those issues to be cleared up.
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:12 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
I just hope some of the airlines who have aircraft waiting to be delivered don’t kick up a big fuss about taking them!

QR- always kick up a fuss about something

EY- probably don’t need or want the capacity.

EK- mentioned that they don’t want 787’s anymore.

BA- probably need them as fast as possible.


Don't agree.

Qr wants the 789s. See recent reuters remarks by aab.

Ey...yes they need the remaining 789 and 10 to offset retired 777ws

Ek...where did they say they don't want them? They have money tied to it withk 77x trades their first 787 due 24

Ba yes they want them and more I thinks
 
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chrisnh
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:13 pm

I drove by the CHS Delivery Center late last night after returning from a business trip and I saw mostly AA, UA, BA. Westjet 789 closest to the building. Probably a dozen I saw.
 
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PM
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:54 pm

I'm sure my numbers aren't 100% but they can't be far off. I make it that there are 117 787s that have flown but not yet delivered.

787-8
American (10)
Scoot (2)
EL AL (1)

787-9
Qatar (9)
Air Europa (8)
All Nippon (6)
China Eastern (5)
Lufthansa (5)
Korean (4)
Norwegian (4)
Aeromexico (3)
China Southern (3)
Gulf (3)
Juneyao (3)
QANTAS (3)
Turkish (3)
Vistara (3)
Westjet (3)
Air Premia (2)
LATAM (2)
LOT (2)
Oman Air (2)
Ethiopian (1)
Hawaiian (1)
MIAT Mongolian (1)
TUI (1)

787-10
British Airways (5)
KLM (4)
United (4)
Vietnam Airlines (4)
EVA (3)
Singapore Airlines (3)
Saudi Arabian Airlines (2)
All Nippon (1)
Etihad (1)

Obviously, we know that the four -9 for Norwegian won't be delivered. And in May LH ordered another 7 -9s saying they were frames that had already flown. Boeing confirmed that they are RR-powered.

So that makes 12 787-9s from this list that are heading to Lufthansa.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:58 pm

Sorry, but what was the 787's issue? I only remember teething problems with batteries or something.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:12 pm

GSPSPOT wrote:
Sorry, but what was the 787's issue? I only remember teething problems with batteries or something.


There was a range of issues identified in a quality control audit of the 787 program requested by the FAA. Some went multiple levels into the supply chain, some were in the assembly process at Boeing.

The most significant were gaps in the joining of fuselage sections. In 8 aircraft this was found to reduce structural strength, so these were grounded, repaired, and returned to service. For others, there was no strength or safety of flight issue, but potentially the gaps could cause a reduction in fatigue life. So Boeing committed to addressing every issue that was found, major or minor.

Although Boeing voluntarily ceased deliveries to address the issues, the FAA was concerned enough to take over airworthiness inspections, so deliveries could not resume without FAA approval.
Last edited by Avatar2go on Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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enzo011
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:14 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
I just hope some of the airlines who have aircraft waiting to be delivered don’t kick up a big fuss about taking them!

QR- always kick up a fuss about something

EY- probably don’t need or want the capacity.

EK- mentioned that they don’t want 787’s anymore.

BA- probably need them as fast as possible.


Don't agree.

Qr wants the 789s. See recent reuters remarks by aab.

Ey...yes they need the remaining 789 and 10 to offset retired 777ws

Ek...where did they say they don't want them? They have money tied to it withk 77x trades their first 787 due 24

Ba yes they want them and more I thinks



EY is just introducing the A35K into their fleet, surely this is a better replacement for their 77W's than 789 or 78X's? Just about the same payload as the 77W and tons lighter and more fuel efficient. And if they go 10-abreast in Y then very little capacity change as well.
 
Opus99
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:25 pm

enzo011 wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
I just hope some of the airlines who have aircraft waiting to be delivered don’t kick up a big fuss about taking them!

QR- always kick up a fuss about something

EY- probably don’t need or want the capacity.

EK- mentioned that they don’t want 787’s anymore.

BA- probably need them as fast as possible.


Don't agree.

Qr wants the 789s. See recent reuters remarks by aab.

Ey...yes they need the remaining 789 and 10 to offset retired 777ws

Ek...where did they say they don't want them? They have money tied to it withk 77x trades their first 787 due 24

Ba yes they want them and more I thinks



EY is just introducing the A35K into their fleet, surely this is a better replacement for their 77W's than 789 or 78X's? Just about the same payload as the 77W and tons lighter and more fuel efficient. And if they go 10-abreast in Y then very little capacity change as well.

Their remaining 35Ks are not coming for a while. The 787s can plug the short term gap. EY did say they’re ready to take 787s and it’s Boeing holding them up. This was back during the Dubai airshow
 
sxf24
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:29 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Noshow wrote:
This seems to be more about the production quality improvements but not about deliveries. The quoted article seems to talk about resuming "sales" but might intend to mean "deliveries"?


Deliveries can now occur if the aircraft passes FAA inspection for the airworthiness certificate. The FAA has said availability of inspectors will not be a limiting factor in deliveries.

So it will be based on remediation progress and customer ability to take the aircraft. Boeing has already remediated numerous aircraft, but it will be a year or more to work through and deliver the entire inventory of over 100 aircraft.

This is analogous to the 737 MAX, which also still require FAA inspection prior to airworthiness certification. Both aircraft will likely continue with FAA inspection until the original inventories are cleared.


My understanding is the pre-delivery inspection was delegated to Boeing and is being retained (temporarily?) by the FAA. It’s not a new or added activity.
 
WestWing
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:41 pm

Is this a true statement? All line numbers 1 to 1131 have flown except for 688 - the Air China ntu at CHS, so 1130 have flown.

If that number 1130 is correct, consider that 1006 have been delivered, so that leaves 124.
Of the first six produced, three were donated, one scrapped, one retained by Boeing. (total 5)
So there should be 119 frames that have flown, eligible for delivery?
 
JohanTally
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:43 pm

enzo011 wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
I just hope some of the airlines who have aircraft waiting to be delivered don’t kick up a big fuss about taking them!

QR- always kick up a fuss about something

EY- probably don’t need or want the capacity.

EK- mentioned that they don’t want 787’s anymore.

BA- probably need them as fast as possible.


Don't agree.

Qr wants the 789s. See recent reuters remarks by aab.

Ey...yes they need the remaining 789 and 10 to offset retired 777ws

Ek...where did they say they don't want them? They have money tied to it withk 77x trades their first 787 due 24

Ba yes they want them and more I thinks



EY is just introducing the A35K into their fleet, surely this is a better replacement for their 77W's than 789 or 78X's? Just about the same payload as the 77W and tons lighter and more fuel efficient. And if they go 10-abreast in Y then very little capacity change as well.

Before the pandemic EY had changed their strategy because they were hemorrhaging cash. They were planning on becoming a smaller airline and focus more on AUH rather being a connection airline. It's a crowded market with QR and EK some it seems EY has conceded being a mega transfer airline which bodes well for 787s and A350s.

https://onemileatatime.com/etihad-restructuring/
 
Whiteguy
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:59 pm

PM wrote:
I'm sure my numbers aren't 100% but they can't be far off. I make it that there are 117 787s that have flown but not yet delivered.

787-8
American (10)
Scoot (2)
EL AL (1)

787-9
Qatar (9)
Air Europa (8)
All Nippon (6)
China Eastern (5)
Lufthansa (5)
Korean (4)
Norwegian (4)
Aeromexico (3)
China Southern (3)
Gulf (3)
Juneyao (3)
QANTAS (3)
Turkish (3)
Vistara (3)
Westjet (3)
Air Premia (2)
LATAM (2)
LOT (2)
Oman Air (2)
Ethiopian (1)
Hawaiian (1)
MIAT Mongolian (1)
TUI (1)

787-10
British Airways (5)
KLM (4)
United (4)
Vietnam Airlines (4)
EVA (3)
Singapore Airlines (3)
Saudi Arabian Airlines (2)
All Nippon (1)
Etihad (1)

Obviously, we know that the four -9 for Norwegian won't be delivered. And in May LH ordered another 7 -9s saying they were frames that had already flown. Boeing confirmed that they are RR-powered.

So that makes 12 787-9s from this list that are heading to Lufthansa.


WestJet has canceled these 3 aircraft and will only be taking one more for the time being.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:04 pm

sxf24 wrote:

My understanding is the pre-delivery inspection was delegated to Boeing and is being retained (temporarily?) by the FAA. It’s not a new or added activity.


Yes, the difference being that the documentation for each aircraft must be prepared for the FAA, prior to inspection. The FAA is signing off on that, as well as any remediation work that was done on the aircraft. All of that is required before delivery.
 
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reidar76
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:04 pm

Excellent news. I reckon it will take several years to clear the 120 787 in inventory.

I wonder when all 787 that is currently in service, will be checked and have their fuselage gaps repaired?
 
EdmFlyBoi
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:58 pm

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:05 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
PM wrote:
I'm sure my numbers aren't 100% but they can't be far off. I make it that there are 117 787s that have flown but not yet delivered.

787-8
American (10)
Scoot (2)
EL AL (1)

787-9
Qatar (9)
Air Europa (8)
All Nippon (6)
China Eastern (5)
Lufthansa (5)
Korean (4)
Norwegian (4)
Aeromexico (3)
China Southern (3)
Gulf (3)
Juneyao (3)
QANTAS (3)
Turkish (3)
Vistara (3)
Westjet (3)
Air Premia (2)
LATAM (2)
LOT (2)
Oman Air (2)
Ethiopian (1)
Hawaiian (1)
MIAT Mongolian (1)
TUI (1)

787-10
British Airways (5)
KLM (4)
United (4)
Vietnam Airlines (4)
EVA (3)
Singapore Airlines (3)
Saudi Arabian Airlines (2)
All Nippon (1)
Etihad (1)

Obviously, we know that the four -9 for Norwegian won't be delivered. And in May LH ordered another 7 -9s saying they were frames that had already flown. Boeing confirmed that they are RR-powered.

So that makes 12 787-9s from this list that are heading to Lufthansa.


WestJet has canceled these 3 aircraft and will only be taking one more for the time being.


There must be a number of completed aircraft that not being taken - Norwegian and Westjet to name a few. What is happening with those frames?
 
Avatar2go
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:29 pm

reidar76 wrote:
Excellent news. I reckon it will take several years to clear the 120 787 in inventory.

I wonder when all 787 that is currently in service, will be checked and have their fuselage gaps repaired?


Agreed. The inspection schedule should become clearer if the FAA releases an AD or other notification to airlines. Not sure about when or if that will happen. If it doesn't happen, then it may be they have accepted Boeing's proposal to handle it under scheduled maintenance bulletins and work.
 
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PM
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:48 pm

WestWing wrote:
Is this a true statement? All line numbers 1 to 1131 have flown except for 688 - the Air China ntu at CHS, so 1130 have flown.

If that number 1130 is correct, consider that 1006 have been delivered, so that leaves 124.
Of the first six produced, three were donated, one scrapped, one retained by Boeing. (total 5)
So there should be 119 frames that have flown, eligible for delivery?

My understanding is that MSN 1118 (a -10 for KLM has not flown yet).
 
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argentinevol98
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:51 pm

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

There must be a number of completed aircraft that not being taken - Norwegian and Westjet to name a few. What is happening with those frames?


Sounds like those 7 frames could be going to LH.
 
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Polot
Posts: 13654
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:52 pm

EdmFlyBoi wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
PM wrote:
I'm sure my numbers aren't 100% but they can't be far off. I make it that there are 117 787s that have flown but not yet delivered.

787-8
American (10)
Scoot (2)
EL AL (1)

787-9
Qatar (9)
Air Europa (8)
All Nippon (6)
China Eastern (5)
Lufthansa (5)
Korean (4)
Norwegian (4)
Aeromexico (3)
China Southern (3)
Gulf (3)
Juneyao (3)
QANTAS (3)
Turkish (3)
Vistara (3)
Westjet (3)
Air Premia (2)
LATAM (2)
LOT (2)
Oman Air (2)
Ethiopian (1)
Hawaiian (1)
MIAT Mongolian (1)
TUI (1)

787-10
British Airways (5)
KLM (4)
United (4)
Vietnam Airlines (4)
EVA (3)
Singapore Airlines (3)
Saudi Arabian Airlines (2)
All Nippon (1)
Etihad (1)

Obviously, we know that the four -9 for Norwegian won't be delivered. And in May LH ordered another 7 -9s saying they were frames that had already flown. Boeing confirmed that they are RR-powered.

So that makes 12 787-9s from this list that are heading to Lufthansa.


WestJet has canceled these 3 aircraft and will only be taking one more for the time being.


There must be a number of completed aircraft that not being taken - Norwegian and Westjet to name a few. What is happening with those frames?

Another airline will eventually buy and take them.
 
travaz
Posts: 1339
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:07 pm

Several articles that I have seen hint pretty strongly that AA is the customer for the first delivery. It is not confirmed by AA however.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 134_1.html
 
Opus99
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Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:19 pm

travaz wrote:
Several articles that I have seen hint pretty strongly that AA is the customer for the first delivery. It is not confirmed by AA however.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 134_1.html

AA themselves said early august. No other airline has said earlier than that. So I guess it’s AA
 
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Polot
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Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:19 pm

argentinevol98 wrote:
EdmFlyBoi wrote:

There must be a number of completed aircraft that not being taken - Norwegian and Westjet to name a few. What is happening with those frames?


Sounds like those 7 frames could be going to LH.

Westjet still has 1 787 on order after the recent cancellation, so it’s possible only 2 of their frames are available.

Right now I have my doubts about LH taking the WS frames (at the moment). WS’s are GE powered. While LH is taking GE powered ntus that deal was announced long before WS’s frames were officially canceled (which only happened a month or two ago) which means WS’s planes are probably not in that GE powered group that LH has ordered. Of course LH could pick up more ntus.
 
Whiteguy
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:33 pm

Polot wrote:
argentinevol98 wrote:
EdmFlyBoi wrote:

There must be a number of completed aircraft that not being taken - Norwegian and Westjet to name a few. What is happening with those frames?


Sounds like those 7 frames could be going to LH.

Westjet still has 1 787 on order after the recent cancellation, so it’s possible only 2 of their frames are available.

Right now I have my doubts about LH taking the WS frames (at the moment). WS’s are GE powered. While LH is taking GE powered ntus that deal was announced long before WS’s frames were officially canceled (which only happened a month or two ago) which means WS’s planes are probably not in that GE powered group that LH has ordered. Of course LH could pick up more ntus.


My understanding is the 3 built are the ones canceled due to missing the delivery dates, Westjet was able to cancel with no penalty. The next one off the line will be the one delivered, tail 912, sometime in the fall.
 
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ElroyJetson
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 5:04 am

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:41 pm

Great news.
 
WestWing
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:01 am

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:28 pm

PM wrote:
My understanding is that MSN 1118 (a -10 for KLM has not flown yet).

Thank you for that clarification re: LN 1118 not having flown yet, and for the detailed breakdown of the 117 frames. So, there may be only one other frame that meets the "has flown but not delivered" criterion.

On a separate note, it is irritating that important news such as this of the FAA approval of the resumption of deliveries is being sourced from 'two people familiar with the matter" rather than as a formal confirmation release from either the FAA or from Boeing.
 
Opus99
Posts: 3553
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:30 pm

WestWing wrote:
PM wrote:
My understanding is that MSN 1118 (a -10 for KLM has not flown yet).

Thank you for that clarification re: LN 1118 not having flown yet, and for the detailed breakdown of the 117 frames. So, there may be only one other frame that meets the "has flown but not delivered" criterion.

On a separate note, it is irritating that important news such as this of the FAA approval of the resumption of deliveries is being sourced from 'two people familiar with the matter" rather than as a formal confirmation release from either the FAA or from Boeing.

FAAA will confirm it first. Probably this week. If it’s out now it won’t take much time before FAA has a press release. After which Boeing will issue their own press release
 
travaz
Posts: 1339
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:20 pm

The news came out Friday afternoon and it is from an anon source so i would look for the official news to come out Monday or Tuesday. Just my WAG.
 
User avatar
LX015
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:28 pm

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:20 pm

PM wrote:
I'm sure my numbers aren't 100% but they can't be far off. I make it that there are 117 787s that have flown but not yet delivered.

787-8
American (10)
Scoot (2)
EL AL (1)

787-9
Qatar (9)
Air Europa (8)
All Nippon (6)
China Eastern (5)
Lufthansa (5)
Korean (4)
Norwegian (4)
Aeromexico (3)
China Southern (3)
Gulf (3)
Juneyao (3)
QANTAS (3)
Turkish (3)
Vistara (3)
Westjet (3)
Air Premia (2)
LATAM (2)
LOT (2)
Oman Air (2)
Ethiopian (1)
Hawaiian (1)
MIAT Mongolian (1)
TUI (1)

787-10
British Airways (5)
KLM (4)
United (4)
Vietnam Airlines (4)
EVA (3)
Singapore Airlines (3)
Saudi Arabian Airlines (2)
All Nippon (1)
Etihad (1)

Obviously, we know that the four -9 for Norwegian won't be delivered. And in May LH ordered another 7 -9s saying they were frames that had already flown. Boeing confirmed that they are RR-powered.

So that makes 12 787-9s from this list that are heading to Lufthansa.



Norwegian? I think you mean Norse…
 
jbs2886
Posts: 4357
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:42 pm

LX015 wrote:
PM wrote:
I'm sure my numbers aren't 100% but they can't be far off. I make it that there are 117 787s that have flown but not yet delivered.

787-8
American (10)
Scoot (2)
EL AL (1)

787-9
Qatar (9)
Air Europa (8)
All Nippon (6)
China Eastern (5)
Lufthansa (5)
Korean (4)
Norwegian (4)
Aeromexico (3)
China Southern (3)
Gulf (3)
Juneyao (3)
QANTAS (3)
Turkish (3)
Vistara (3)
Westjet (3)
Air Premia (2)
LATAM (2)
LOT (2)
Oman Air (2)
Ethiopian (1)
Hawaiian (1)
MIAT Mongolian (1)
TUI (1)

787-10
British Airways (5)
KLM (4)
United (4)
Vietnam Airlines (4)
EVA (3)
Singapore Airlines (3)
Saudi Arabian Airlines (2)
All Nippon (1)
Etihad (1)

Obviously, we know that the four -9 for Norwegian won't be delivered. And in May LH ordered another 7 -9s saying they were frames that had already flown. Boeing confirmed that they are RR-powered.

So that makes 12 787-9s from this list that are heading to Lufthansa.



Norwegian? I think you mean Norse…


No. Norse does not have 787s on order. Norwegian did and they were built for Norwegian. They’ll be taken up by another airline but it’s not Norse…
 
sxf24
Posts: 1985
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:54 pm

Opus99 wrote:
WestWing wrote:
PM wrote:
My understanding is that MSN 1118 (a -10 for KLM has not flown yet).

Thank you for that clarification re: LN 1118 not having flown yet, and for the detailed breakdown of the 117 frames. So, there may be only one other frame that meets the "has flown but not delivered" criterion.

On a separate note, it is irritating that important news such as this of the FAA approval of the resumption of deliveries is being sourced from 'two people familiar with the matter" rather than as a formal confirmation release from either the FAA or from Boeing.

FAAA will confirm it first. Probably this week. If it’s out now it won’t take much time before FAA has a press release. After which Boeing will issue their own press release


I doubt either party will confirm anything with a press release prior to delivery. My understanding is that news leaked quite a while after approval was provided.
 
User avatar
FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:10 am

This is goodnews for Boeing. The 787 is a fine airplane. Glad that it will be contributing cash this year! I hope they can keep their eye on the manufacturing quality!
 
Noshow
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:44 am

If true and not just another spin doctoring element wouldn't it be better to let the FAA announce this first? Is Boeing returning to put pressure on the FAA like before? First the MAX EICAS extension pressure on congress combined with big MAX order announcements, then all those 787 customers wanting their airplanes so badly and Boeing publicly talking about likely august handover dates . All this while the FAA's top is in a transition time and the organisation expanded.
Boeing had been more respectful and patient before concerning authorities and protocol. Maybe the FAA got used to this style by now but I am not sure about EASA and in China this might actively work against them.
 
Opus99
Posts: 3553
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:30 am

Noshow wrote:
If true and not just another spin doctoring element wouldn't it be better to let the FAA announce this first? Is Boeing returning to put pressure on the FAA like before? First the MAX EICAS extension pressure on congress combined with big MAX order announcements, then all those 787 customers wanting their airplanes so badly and Boeing publicly talking about likely august handover dates . All this while the FAA's top is in a transition time and the organisation expanded.
Boeing had been more respectful and patient before concerning authorities and protocol. Maybe the FAA got used to this style by now but I am not sure about EASA and in China this might actively work against them.

It’s been 2 years to deliver planes that actually have no safety problem and you think Boeing are putting pressure on the FAA? The max 7 was used to re-certify the max program and it’s nowhere to be found and you think Boeing is putting pressure on the FAA?

Are you actually serious?
 
Noshow
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:32 am

Yes I am. They clearly went back to put pressure on the FAA. I wonder if this is a wise move before the next key no-EICAS extension is needed?

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