Good evening folks and welcome to our new thread. Here's a link to the last thread, for anyone who wants to go through it: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1474273

Some highlights from July:
- FR achieves system-wide LF of 95%
- DAA announces starting date for new runway (later in August)
- Metrolink to go ahead: construction to begin in 2025, for completion in 2031-33.
- EY announces increase to DUB frequency and upgrade to 787-10 (for most flights)
- EI flight cancellations continued throughout July; security delays not as severe as recent months; main issue now is lost baggage
- Airline chiefs called before Oireachtas committee to discuss situation at DUB
- EI resumes SEA
- FR launches 12 new routes from Belfast
- Privilege Style 777 operating some BCN and ACE flights for EI.

Enjoy the thread folks and hope you're all enjoying the summer!

JAmie2k9 wrote:

New Runway to become operational on 24th August. Hours will be 07:00-18:00 after phased operations over the first few weeks.

Full parallel and dual departures from start of Summer 2023 when slot limits are lifted.

Interesting how long the process takes, what with the phased operations and all the rest of it. I would have thought they would have trained to be ready for near enough full operations from the start. Still, this is going to bode very well for Dublin's capacity in the future.

Meanwhile, how up to date is the Aer Lingus system online? I have a flight next month and it's listed as Airbus A321 NEO but I've been moved from my seat 3K to 1F, which would mean the aircraft has been swapped for a standard A320. If so, how come the system hasn't updated for new reservations? Is this normal behaviour?

ClassicLover wrote:

Meanwhile, how up to date is the Aer Lingus system online? I have a flight next month and it's listed as Airbus A321 NEO but I've been moved from my seat 3K to 1F, which would mean the aircraft has been swapped for a standard A320. If so, how come the system hasn't updated for new reservations? Is this normal behaviour?

Happened to me a few times and a mate of mine has been shunted into a A320 in Aerspace but told all seats are full for seat selection ! Not sure how they intend to resolve that . Probably a downgrade . Also loads of members Tier Points are not posting again either.

ClassicLover wrote:

JAmie2k9 wrote:

New Runway to become operational on 24th August. Hours will be 07:00-18:00 after phased operations over the first few weeks.

Full parallel and dual departures from start of Summer 2023 when slot limits are lifted.

Interesting how long the process takes, what with the phased operations and all the rest of it. I would have thought they would have trained to be ready for near enough full operations from the start. Still, this is going to bode very well for Dublin's capacity in the future.

Meanwhile, how up to date is the Aer Lingus system online? I have a flight next month and it's listed as Airbus A321 NEO but I've been moved from my seat 3K to 1F, which would mean the aircraft has been swapped for a standard A320. If so, how come the system hasn't updated for new reservations? Is this normal behaviour?

I'm not sure on training etc but I am sure Covid had some impact and wasn't there issue with staff numbers a few months ago in the media. Its also coming into winter so the level of demand will significently drop. They may even have dual depatures over winter but no increase in movments.

Airlines agreed to keep limits in place, they will be watching Condition 5 (65 cap 23-07:00) and what happens for summmer 2023.

Are there any plans to expand T2 at DUB in the future?

Otherwise, the second runway seems to be much needed. How often has runway 16/34 been used over the years compared to the main older one (10R/28L)?

3D101CA wrote:

Are there any plans to expand T2 at DUB in the future?

Provisions were made in the building of T2 to allow for expansion of the check-in hall and the development of Pier F to the east of the current T2 gates. You can see this in the Capital Investment Program 2020+ document and slides here, it also involves expansion of the pre-clearance facility https://www.dublinairport.com/docs/default-source/cip-2020/capital-investment-plan-industry-presentation.pdf?sfvrsn=2cc69c23_2. You can also see there are provisional designs for mid-field concourses between the two main runways though I imagine there will be closer to 2040+ than 2030 especially after COVID.

Not a good start to the day for poor old EI. Computer system which produces load sheets seems to be out of action. Several flights delayed. I'm on the 152 and we've been told is likely to be after 7 before we get it, if we're lucky.

kaitak wrote:

Not a good start to the day for poor old EI. Computer system which produces load sheets seems to be out of action. Several flights delayed. I'm on the 152 and we've been told is likely to be after 7 before we get it, if we're lucky.

This is where knowledge of manual loadsheets is good to have. I remember once having to do one for an EI flight, and the reaction I got from the flight crew sounded like they had never seen one before! I had to talk them through it. The flight still departed on time, of course

July passenger results from Ryanair :

Ryanair carried 16.8 million passengers in July

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0 ... s-in-july/

kaitak wrote:

Not a good start to the day for poor old EI. Computer system which produces load sheets seems to be out of action. Several flights delayed. I'm on the 152 and we've been told is likely to be after 7 before we get it, if we're lucky.

Guessing the issue was resolved pretty quickly, there’s nothing too out of the ordinary in terms of delays for the morning rush today thankfully.

DL are upgrading BOS-DUB to 767-400ER from Oct 22nd.

EI321 wrote:

DL are upgrading BOS-DUB to 767-400ER from Oct 22nd.

I have to get on one of these 767-400ERs one day, I can't imagine they'll be around that many more years.

ClassicLover wrote:

EI321 wrote:

DL are upgrading BOS-DUB to 767-400ER from Oct 22nd.

I have to get on one of these 767-400ERs one day, I can't imagine they'll be around that many more years.

Quite, only 2 operators (UAL and DAL), although both are fond of sending them to DUB.

If flightradar24 is accurate (it usually is these days), EI-NSB is ferrying from OSR-SNN this afternoon.

German bank gets approval from High Court to wind up Irish jet units
Nord LB petitioned court over debts worth $60m owed by Irish firms

https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 88505.html

--

Ryanair loses dispute with employee over €300 salary deduction

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/wor ... deduction/

Interesting judgement glad the court came out in favor of the employee in this one .

HTCone wrote:

ClassicLover wrote:

EI321 wrote:

DL are upgrading BOS-DUB to 767-400ER from Oct 22nd.

I have to get on one of these 767-400ERs one day, I can't imagine they'll be around that many more years.

Quite, only 2 operators (UAL and DAL), although both are fond of sending them to DUB.

Can't comment on DL, but I flew EWR-DUB-EWR earlier this year on UA (764 eastbound and substituted 763 westbound). 763 had a much newer interior with the Polaris business seats which I found much better than the older interior on the 764. Had looked forward to the eastbound as it was my first 764 flight, but was very pleased to fly a substituted 763 on the westbound. The 764 had multiple isues (no working IFE and malfunctioning cabin A/C).

The Delta 764s are all now refitted with the newer interiors. The older IFE which they had until recently was very outdated. It's a fairly comfortable aircraft with only 7 abreast in economy and the larger 777 windows.

SNN not that bad :


Shamrock Rovers' European opponents vow to avenge the 'evil' of being forced to fly via Shannon Airport

https://www.the42.ie/shkupi-5832944-Aug2022/

OA260 wrote:

SNN not that bad :


Shamrock Rovers' European opponents vow to avenge the 'evil' of being forced to fly via Shannon Airport

https://www.the42.ie/shkupi-5832944-Aug2022/

Wait til they experience Dublin

Why does EI serve SNN-BOS/JFK? To me it makes no sense, moving the flights over to DUB would be better it seems.

What is the purpose of the seasonal EWR-SNN seasonal service on UA? Lack of capacity at DUB for additional EWR service? You also had AA flying PHL-SNN at one point. I wonder if three daily EWR-DUB on a seasonal basis would work better. Or even double daily PHL-DUB on a seasonal basis.

The routes exists because there is demand, why else would they?

Those flights have been generally full this season.
So looks like they are here to stay.

There is more to see in Ireland than just Dublin, very convenient for Americans visiting the cliffs of Moher, the wild Atlantic way etc.

Also I would assume a higher proportion of people in the West of Ireland than in Dublin have family in the New York and Boston areas due to immigration patterns over the years.

3D101CA wrote:

Why does EI serve SNN-BOS/JFK? To me it makes no sense, moving the flights over to DUB would be better it seems.

On the face of it you are probably right. Long-time readers of the forums will know that I had hoped these services would move to Cork, or that EI would launch transatlantic services from Cork with the introduction of the LR. That hasn’t happened as yet. Even closing the SNN cabin crew base has not dented the routes fortunes. In the depths of the pandemic MAN was supposed to get 2x A321LR’s, one for JFK and one for BOS. It looked like SNN would be the donor for these routes. In the end SNN-JFK/BOS survived and MAN-BOS was dropped. While SNN-JFK/BOS may make no sense to you, the place clearly makes sense to route planners and revenue departments.

BrianDromey wrote:

3D101CA wrote:

Why does EI serve SNN-BOS/JFK? To me it makes no sense, moving the flights over to DUB would be better it seems.

On the face of it you are probably right. Long-time readers of the forums will know that I had hoped these services would move to Cork, or that EI would launch transatlantic services from Cork with the introduction of the LR. That hasn’t happened as yet. Even closing the SNN cabin crew base has not dented the routes fortunes. In the depths of the pandemic MAN was supposed to get 2x A321LR’s, one for JFK and one for BOS. It looked like SNN would be the donor for these routes. In the end SNN-JFK/BOS survived and MAN-BOS was dropped. While SNN-JFK/BOS may make no sense to you, the place clearly makes sense to route planners and revenue departments.

You definitely forget the biggest reason. SNN airport secured several millions to secure routes and lure airlines due to the damage of covid. And it also entered the status of regional airport. 90% of this fund went towards long haul routes. Now think who is the largest airline operating long haul out of SNN…

3D101CA wrote:

Why does EI serve SNN-BOS/JFK? To me it makes no sense, moving the flights over to DUB would be better it seems.

What is the purpose of the seasonal EWR-SNN seasonal service on UA? Lack of capacity at DUB for additional EWR service? You also had AA flying PHL-SNN at one point. I wonder if three daily EWR-DUB on a seasonal basis would work better. Or even double daily PHL-DUB on a seasonal basis.

Why don't airlines like AC move their long haul flights from Geneva to Zurich? Or UA from Dubrovnik to Zagreb? Or LO from Kraków to Warsaw? Etc. etc.

Not everyone wants to fly into the capital or largest city in a region/country. SNN has its own market with its own catchment and clearly a lot of people want to use these services to fly there rather than DUB, otherwise the routes wouldn't exist.

EI-NSB in full colours, named Aodhan/St. Aidan. No pictures of what the cabin may look like?

Disappointing that there are no usb charger ports on these A320neos, its a brand new aircraft in 2022. Surely theres a reason for this other than a relatively tiny cost saving?

Either it was the standard Smartavia had opted for, in which case Aer Lingus have had enough time to retrofit the aircraft to install outlets themselves or the lessor was able to secure a complete cabin refit but to a basic, off the shelf standard.

I think the latter is the most likely, the seats aren’t actually the IAG standard, they’re a slightly nicer looking model, still from Recaro but part of their ‘Swift’ turnaround option which allows lessors to receive a shipment of seats within eight weeks with some minimal customisation options.

Here’s an article;

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2020/03/p ... m-for-alc/

Visually, it’s a nicer cabin than BA/IB/VY but is very basic in terms of customisation. No power outlets, no tablet or smartphone holders, no WiFi.

While this might be a consequence of the rapid purchase of the aircraft, Aer Lingus needs to seriously consider installing these features as standard in the very near future.

Due to fly to Faro in the morning and I think it’s on A330. It’ll be my first time on one, so looking forward to the experience. I’m thinking of dropping off the checked bags this evening rather than in the morning. I know EI have their problems with lost luggage recently. Good idea or not?

ei737ng wrote:

Due to fly to Faro in the morning and I think it’s on A330. It’ll be my first time on one, so looking forward to the experience. I’m thinking of dropping off the checked bags this evening rather than in the morning. I know EI have their problems with lost luggage recently. Good idea or not?

I know a few people who have done this and said they were glad they did. They got their bags the other end so I dont think it increases the risk of lost bags. Make sure you also label and put a unique tag on them that makes them less generic. As mentioned Apple Air tags ( if you have a iPhone ) are a good idea if you are that worried and Argos sell them among other places. Only take 2 mins to activate.

Looks like EI FNH doing that tomorrow.

BrianDromey wrote:

3D101CA wrote:

Why does EI serve SNN-BOS/JFK? To me it makes no sense, moving the flights over to DUB would be better it seems.

Long-time readers of the forums will know that I had hoped these services would move to Cork, or that EI would launch transatlantic services from Cork with the introduction of the LR. That hasn’t happened as yet.

The A321LR wouldn’t make it transatlantic off the runway in ORK without a significant weight penalty. The A321LR can’t fly to MSP out of DUB because of runway restrictions (thankfully soon to be lifted with the new runway) and that’s 1600+ft longer. An A321LR at MTOW requires a balanced field length (BFL) often in excess of 9,000 feet and Cork is under 7,000. Yes I know Norwegian flew 737 MAXs of ORK but it’s a smaller plane.

Has there ever been any talk of a ORK runway extension? I can’t recall ever hearing anything.

nickya340 wrote:

Has there ever been any talk of a ORK runway extension? I can’t recall ever hearing anything.

Probably not worth it.



The Kerry, Cork, Shannon triangle is definitely overkill when it comes to facilities.

KIR is 70km from SNN and 97km from ORK.
ORK is 100km from SNN.

Does any country require three major airports that close together, especially one with a population of around 5 million people?

You'd probably keep SNN and do away with the rest. Hell, even NOC is only 135km from SNN, so that could be made redundant also. Though, as ORK is actually has more passenger traffic than SNN and a larger city beside it, the argument could be to keep ORK and close SNN and KIR.

Arguably the bigger reasons for SNN’s continued longevity is catchment area and its versatility. Galway people will drive to SNN but they’d drive to DUB over ORK. SNN is an hour closer to ORK than DUB so they’ll often go there too especially if they’re closer or out west of Cork city. Add in the facilities at SNN (longer runway, pre clearance) plus its regular use as a waypoint for translatlantic private and cargo traffic, it’ll always hold out, it can just do more. Aspirations for ORK beyond regional connectivity to Europe is well-placed but not viable.

ClassicLover wrote:

nickya340 wrote:

Has there ever been any talk of a ORK runway extension? I can’t recall ever hearing anything.

Probably not worth it.



The Kerry, Cork, Shannon triangle is definitely overkill when it comes to facilities.

KIR is 70km from SNN and 97km from ORK.
ORK is 100km from SNN.

Does any country require three major airports that close together, especially one with a population of around 5 million people?

You'd probably keep SNN and do away with the rest. Hell, even NOC is only 135km from SNN, so that could be made redundant also. Though, as ORK is actually has more passenger traffic than SNN and a larger city beside it, the argument could be to keep ORK and close SNN and KIR.

I think those airports are essential in a country with poor infrastructure like having no motorway between two major cities like Limerick (SNN) and Cork, also poor public transport links with no rail connections.

Off topic but I wonder if EI would ever consider reinstating the daytime eastbound JFK-DUB service? Curious to know how this performed a few years back when it last operated; I think it ran for more than one season which indicates it didn't do too badly (initially at least).

[twoid][/twoid]

3D101CA wrote:

Why does EI serve SNN-BOS/JFK? To me it makes no sense, moving the flights over to DUB would be better it seems.

What is the purpose of the seasonal EWR-SNN seasonal service on UA? Lack of capacity at DUB for additional EWR service? You also had AA flying PHL-SNN at one point. I wonder if three daily EWR-DUB on a seasonal basis would work better. Or even double daily PHL-DUB on a seasonal basis.

I think EI would find it hard to get rid of the SNN transatlantic flights regardless of whether they wanted to or not. The public backlash would be unbelievable.

ClassicLover wrote:

The Kerry, Cork, Shannon triangle is definitely overkill when it comes to facilities.

KIR is 70km from SNN and 97km from ORK.
ORK is 100km from SNN.

Does any country require three major airports that close together, especially one with a population of around 5 million people?

You'd probably keep SNN and do away with the rest. Hell, even NOC is only 135km from SNN, so that could be made redundant also. Though, as ORK is actually has more passenger traffic than SNN and a larger city beside it, the argument could be to keep ORK and close SNN and KIR.

The distances you quote are as the crow flies, and not real road distances.

You can start doing away with airports once you have an effective public transport system, which provides a reliable connection to a central airport. The west of Ireland definitely doesn't have that and there is no political will to make any real investment in transport infrastructure (and why would there be when the country can't agree to get a rail connection to the airport for decades).

Does anyone know what way EI work a/c swaps between the a/c based in SNN, ORK, DUB.? LRC and LRF switched on Sunday and went back to SNN and DUB respectively from LHR. They switched again in LHR this morning. Is this a maintenance issue? Seems to be a waste of time to switch them on Sunday only to switch them back today

Avoation1091 wrote:

Does anyone know what way EI work a/c swaps between the a/c based in SNN, ORK, DUB.? LRC and LRF switched on Sunday and went back to SNN and DUB respectively from LHR. They switched again in LHR this morning. Is this a maintenance issue? Seems to be a waste of time to switch them on Sunday only to switch them back today

I’m guessing so they could do an A check on LRC, which is usually done overnight.

What's being operated on DUB-LCY? I scratched off the RJ86 on Cityjet in November 2019 from my bucket list. That was a fun flight.

Edit: Just saw on wiki for LCY that only BA is operating DUB-LCY. Sad to see it's a character-less Embraer on the route.

ClassicLover wrote:

EI321 wrote:

DL are upgrading BOS-DUB to 767-400ER from Oct 22nd.

I have to get on one of these 767-400ERs one day, I can't imagine they'll be around that many more years.

It's a nice ride. One of my favorite planes to be on. It's pretty cool to sit towards the back and stare off to space in a far corner in J and watch the fuselage bend and contort in turbulence. Haven't been on a 764 in a while though, I'd love to get on one soon.

Nice to see MS using the East Lounge .

OA260 wrote:

Nice to see MS using the East Lounge .

I always thought that Turkish should have too

Eirules wrote:

OA260 wrote:

Nice to see MS using the East Lounge .

I always thought that Turkish should have too

IIRC they did pre Covid briefly but not since .

alancostello wrote:

The A321LR wouldn’t make it transatlantic off the runway in ORK without a significant weight penalty. The A321LR can’t fly to MSP out of DUB because of runway restrictions (thankfully soon to be lifted with the new runway) and that’s 1600+ft longer. An A321LR at MTOW requires a balanced field length (BFL) often in excess of 9,000 feet and Cork is under 7,000. Yes I know Norwegian flew 737 MAXs of ORK but it’s a smaller plane.

Im not sure Norwegian did all that well from ORK, BDL was a pretty early casualty. Norwegian also intended to serve NYC, but even the MAX-8 couldn't get that far. As much as I would like to see an airline like EI, DL, UA or AA at Cork, I think the combination of SNN up the road, challenging operational constraints and decent connections via LHR etc make it difficult one to get across the line.

AmricanShamrok wrote:

Off topic but I wonder if EI would ever consider reinstating the daytime eastbound JFK-DUB service? Curious to know how this performed a few years back when it last operated; I think it ran for more than one season which indicates it didn't do too badly (initially at least).

In fairness SNN has seen off the daytime JFK, MSP, YUL and MAN-BOS. The routes can't be that terrible!

ClassicLover wrote:

nickya340 wrote:

Has there ever been any talk of a ORK runway extension? I can’t recall ever hearing anything.

Probably not worth it.

Does any country require three major airports that close together, especially one with a population of around 5 million people?

You'd probably keep SNN and do away with the rest. Hell, even NOC is only 135km from SNN, so that could be made redundant also. Though, as ORK is actually has more passenger traffic than SNN and a larger city beside it, the argument could be to keep ORK and close SNN and KIR.

I think the length of the runway is limited by the fall of land away from the airport site. This also makes Cat III ILS prohibitive. I can't see that level of investment unless there was a forced closure of SNN, which I just don't see happening. The political fallout would be one thing, but the economic fallout in the Shannon would also be huge. Let's imagine SNN was closed to commercial traffic, where would the Cargo and MRO activities be relocated to, who would pay for that or would the airfield remain open? Its not as if SNN is a prime city-centre redevelopment opportunity.
Right now SNN seems to be doing OK, with a stable, if not spectacular route offerings. KIR and NOC seem to be doing fine as well. I dont see a reason to forcibly close any of the airports on the western seaboard. If anything, the reliance on DUB should be discouraged given the issues we have seen this summer.

AmricanShamrok wrote:

Off topic but I wonder if EI would ever consider reinstating the daytime eastbound JFK-DUB service? Curious to know how this performed a few years back when it last operated; I think it ran for more than one season which indicates it didn't do too badly (initially at least).

If 2020 had opereated as planned, I think BOS was to go x18 weekly peak season. No changes to JFK that summer.

I am not sure it will return. New expensive fleet of A321LRs this service would be poor utilization of the fleet unltess it was a top performer. 3/5 LR operate Euro routes this summer in between T/A.

JAmie2k9 wrote:

AmricanShamrok wrote:

Off topic but I wonder if EI would ever consider reinstating the daytime eastbound JFK-DUB service? Curious to know how this performed a few years back when it last operated; I think it ran for more than one season which indicates it didn't do too badly (initially at least).

If 2020 had opereated as planned, I think BOS was to go x18 weekly peak season. No changes to JFK that summer.

I am not sure it will return. New expensive fleet of A321LRs this service would be poor utilization of the fleet unltess it was a top performer. 3/5 LR operate Euro routes this summer in between T/A.

Its just 2 X LR operating morning DUB-LHR before they go to YYZ/PHL. No euro routes are covered except for some DUB FCO runs lately. The other 3 LR are on the ground in DUB.

Avoation1091 wrote:

JAmie2k9 wrote:

AmricanShamrok wrote:

Off topic but I wonder if EI would ever consider reinstating the daytime eastbound JFK-DUB service? Curious to know how this performed a few years back when it last operated; I think it ran for more than one season which indicates it didn't do too badly (initially at least).

If 2020 had opereated as planned, I think BOS was to go x18 weekly peak season. No changes to JFK that summer.

I am not sure it will return. New expensive fleet of A321LRs this service would be poor utilization of the fleet unltess it was a top performer. 3/5 LR operate Euro routes this summer in between T/A.

Its just 2 X LR operating morning DUB-LHR before they go to YYZ/PHL. No euro routes are covered except for some DUB FCO runs lately. The other 3 LR are on the ground in DUB.

One of the LRs does the SNN-LHR-SNN in between transatlantic crossings from SNN.