Updated: QR and Airbus reach settlement in legal dispute

Gar1G · Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:24 am

LAX772LR wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I can't see Airbus wanting QR as a customer again any time soon. The only way I can see that changing is if Al Baker is no longer involved with QR.

High end business simply doesn't work that way; corporations are not nearly so sentimental.

After all of this, if QR comes knocking with adequate money, then Airbus will sell them planes.

Exactly. And given that political interests are also involved, the business relationship will be maintained.

scbriml · Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:31 am

LAX772LR wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I can't see Airbus wanting QR as a customer again any time soon. The only way I can see that changing is if Al Baker is no longer involved with QR.

High end business simply doesn't work that way; corporations are not nearly so sentimental.

After all of this, if QR comes knocking with adequate money, then Airbus will sell them planes.

If you don't believe it, rewind a decade and review the Airbus vs. AA "beef" over AA587 that A.net was convinced would last for all time..... AA ended up coming back to Airbus for (what was then) the biggest order of all time.

Yes, and I'm aware of the AA history, been here 20 years. :wave:

I didn't say "never" and I even gave a sooner rather than later scenario.

frigatebird · Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:53 am

accentra wrote:
I think many thought this likely, post the UK judge's statement (reported up thread) that the QCAA would have to provide their rationale or, failing that, AAB would have to take the stand. To me, this has always been a brinkmanship thing between AAB and Airbus. But it seems the road ran out for AAB (with the judge potentially putting him on the spot) and a face-saving 'accomodation' then became a priority to be found?

Looks like it, when just a week after the judge gave an ultimatum to AAB, parties seem to be close to a settlement.

LAX772LR wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I can't see Airbus wanting QR as a customer again any time soon. The only way I can see that changing is if Al Baker is no longer involved with QR.

High end business simply doesn't work that way; corporations are not nearly so sentimental.

After all of this, if QR comes knocking with adequate money, then Airbus will sell them planes.

If you don't believe it, rewind a decade and review the Airbus vs. AA "beef" over AA587 that A.net was convinced would last for all time..... AA ended up coming back to Airbus for (what was then) the biggest order of all time.

I don't think it's about being sentimental, I think Airbus doesn't trust AAB anymore.

A couple of years ago I moved to a different, far bigger company. With a big reputation, they were market leaders at the time. So surprised to hear the CEO forbid us to do business with a certain vendor - the same vendor I worked with in my previous job. Reason: the CEO had an argument with that vendor which wasn't settled amicably. I can still hear him raging about that vendor - though in my previous company we had no problems with them. It took years, a new CEO and a merger with another vendor, before we did business again

Of course, eventually, QR and Airbus will do business again. Just like AA did with Airbus. But that was 10 years after AA587. I don't think AAB will stay for another 10 years at QR, and would not be surprised if some announcement will be made later this year he will retire from QR, and concentrate on his other tasks (like Qatar's minister of tourism). Of course, this retirement would have been the plan for years and have nothing to do with the dispute with Airbus :spin:

Pretty sure the cancelled A321neo and A350 orders won't be reinstated. These bridges have been burned. But QR can't rely on just Boeing, in a few years QR (with a new CEO) will do business with Airbus again. (My 2 cents

)

Wildlander · Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:00 am

I suspect Airbus would like QR to take the built/furnished/painted A350-1000s that they have been keeping "warm" since undelivered. Maybe a sop in the form of a price gesture to reflect they are not the latest model (akin to car dealers discounting old stock). Cheaper all round than having them sit around and then de/reconfigured for another customer. As for the A321s, I doubt if there is any incentive to reinstate them at the pricing level (including customisation and hassle) that QR would still expect.

es19 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:21 am

Well well no surprises there , i don't know how they will handle the press but Airbus And Qatar airways relationship will continue since Qatar airways will continue to operate airbus aircraft they currently have and i would not rule out future order's for A350's or theA320's...

eta unknown · Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:53 am

Gar1G wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Gar1G wrote:
Well well well... Not too much detail but for the first time the reporting indicates that an agreement might be reached...

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/airbus-qatar-edge-towards-agreement-a350-dispute-sources-2023-01-31/

I can see that the QCAA have no evidence for the ground and Akbar have decided to end the battle before the hearing later this year.

Agreed! And conveniently the QR mouthpiece is back to reminding people on twitter the QR side of the argument.

If I hazard a "finger in the air" guess, the agreement might look like the following:
- No AOG compensation for QR for the past 2 years BUT Airbus might offer the same repairs as offered to other carriers at their cost
- The a350 and a321 orders will be reinstated and the NTUs will go to QR after all
- QR will give the media narrative that they got Airbus accountable (the saving face)
- Airbus will stay pretty muted and say something about having QR as a valued customer

Nice thoughts, but where is the Airbus "win" in your scenario? Sure, they can still sell aircraft to QR, but you forget at the moment they don't want to. At a minimum QR need to pay Airbus' legal costs.

mig17 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:57 am

eta unknown wrote:
Gar1G wrote:
xwb777 wrote:

I can see that the QCAA have no evidence for the ground and Akbar have decided to end the battle before the hearing later this year.

Agreed! And conveniently the QR mouthpiece is back to reminding people on twitter the QR side of the argument.

If I hazard a "finger in the air" guess, the agreement might look like the following:
- No AOG compensation for QR for the past 2 years BUT Airbus might offer the same repairs as offered to other carriers at their cost
- The a350 and a321 orders will be reinstated and the NTUs will go to QR after all
- QR will give the media narrative that they got Airbus accountable (the saving face)
- Airbus will stay pretty muted and say something about having QR as a valued customer

Nice thoughts, but where is the Airbus "win" in your scenario? Sure, they can still sell aircraft to QR, but you forget at the moment they don't want to. At a minimum QR need to pay Airbus' legal costs.

A large A350F order ...

Qatara340 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:52 am

A lot of subjective comments that have no basis:

What we know so far:
1. There is a material defect in the A350 corrosion protection
2. Other carriers besides QR reported it
3. Other carriers got compensation from Airbus
4. Airbus admitted this defect and even offered very recently to change its manufacturing procedure to better deal with coating issues
5.There is positive news on the horizon after the latest meetings in Doha about the issue

QR states there is a safety issue (It IS a safety issue; otherwise Airbus will not have improved this design). Is the issue enough to ground the planes? Airbus says no, Qatar says yes.

That being said:

QR is a major customer of Airbus and has spent billions of dollars-- more than entire countries' annual GDP on planes. It deserves to be heard and answered; its not easy as returning a shoe or ordering bad steak at a restaurant. We are talking about corporations, politics, billions of dollars, lost revenue on both sides, etc...

Airbus took the drastic step of cancelling entire airplanes inventory without technical basis. You can argue QR was demanding; but it has a right to get closure on the issue of material coating. Yes, Airbus has the contractual right to terminate the agreement, but this was done purely to spite. Airbus has not used this before on other customers on business issues that are even more risky like with American Airlines and the A330 refueling saga with the US government, etc..

I hope that Airbus and Qatar reach an agreement soon. I love the A350, and the A321 and they are the perfect fit for QR. Qatar and France have a strategic relationship and I am sure that both Macron and His Highness have discussed ending this court battle.

Airbus, get those A321 reinstated and A350 fixed.
QR, tone down your rhetoric

Win-win

MrHMSH · Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:11 pm

Qatara340 wrote:
A lot of subjective comments that have no basis:

What we know so far:
1. There is a material defect in the A350 corrosion protection
2. Other carriers besides QR reported it
3. Other carriers got compensation from Airbus
4. Airbus admitted this defect and even offered very recently to change its manufacturing procedure to better deal with coating issues
5.There is positive news on the horizon after the latest meetings in Doha about the issue

QR states there is a safety issue (It IS a safety issue; otherwise Airbus will not have improved this design). Is the issue enough to ground the planes? Airbus says no, Qatar says yes.

That being said:

QR is a major customer of Airbus and has spent billions of dollars-- more than entire countries' annual GDP on planes. It deserves to be heard and answered; its not easy as returning a shoe or ordering bad steak at a restaurant. We are talking about corporations, politics, billions of dollars, lost revenue on both sides, etc...

Airbus took the drastic step of cancelling entire airplanes inventory without technical basis. You can argue QR was demanding; but it has a right to get closure on the issue of material coating. Yes, Airbus has the contractual right to terminate the agreement, but this was done purely to spite. Airbus has not used this before on other customers on business issues that are even more risky like with American Airlines and the A330 refueling saga with the US government, etc..

I hope that Airbus and Qatar reach an agreement soon. I love the A350, and the A321 and they are the perfect fit for QR. Qatar and France have a strategic relationship and I am sure that both Macron and His Highness have discussed ending this court battle.

Airbus, get those A321 reinstated and A350 fixed.
QR, tone down your rhetoric

Win-win

Airbus' current loss with QR stands at 19 cancelled A350s and 50 cancelled A321neos. 19 lost A350s is annoying but not even remotely close to (for example) EK's A350 cancellation or AAAx's A330neo cancellation. 50 A321neos? Next to no concern at all, these would all be taken up very gleefully by other airlines. QR needs Airbus more than Airbus needs QR, given that QR is the one who made the accusations and has seemingly not provided sufficient evidence, I think it's QR that needs to take the loss and accept the fix Airbus has proposed, as every other aviation authority and airline has done with minimal fuss. Though whether that would be enough for Airbus to countenance doing business with them anytime soon remains to be seen.

JerseyFlyer · Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:11 pm

Good to see some movement.

I don't think the below is a correct deduction:

Qatara340 wrote:
QR states there is a safety issue (It IS a safety issue; otherwise Airbus will not have improved this design). Is the issue enough to ground the planes? Airbus says no, Qatar says yes.

I think Airbus would say the design improvement is because the new design is cheaper to maintain. I read somewhere that it is a bit lighter as well.

Qatara340 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:27 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Good to see some movement.

I don't think the below is a correct deduction:

Qatara340 wrote:
QR states there is a safety issue (It IS a safety issue; otherwise Airbus will not have improved this design). Is the issue enough to ground the planes? Airbus says no, Qatar says yes.

I think Airbus would say the design improvement is because the new design is cheaper to maintain. I read somewhere that it is a bit lighter as well.

Indeed its good to see the ball rolling.

Perhaps, there are more than one benefits to this new coating--and I'm sure its cheaper and design improvement, but also has to be better in specs and protection--otherwise there wont be any costly retrofitts or design changes.

Ziyulu · Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:32 pm

Do you think QR would consider ordering from COMAC? They cannot rely on just Boeing.

xwb777 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:49 pm

Qatar Airways will keep ordering from Airbus. I think in the future, both Airbus and QR will release a statement stating that this was just a misunderstanding and it will be business as usual.

enzo011 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:16 pm

Qatara340 wrote:
A lot of subjective comments that have no basis:

Agreed, unfortunately your post suffers from this as much as others have.

Qatara340 wrote:
QR states there is a safety issue (It IS a safety issue; otherwise Airbus will not have improved this design). Is the issue enough to ground the planes? Airbus says no, Qatar says yes.

New designs on aircraft aren't always about safety issues. In any case, we know it is not a safety issue otherwise other airlines who suffered similar issues would have stopped flying their A350's. The fact that they didn't makes it certain that it is not, as you post and QR assert, a safety issue.

Qatara340 wrote:
Airbus took the drastic step of cancelling entire airplanes inventory without technical basis.

Seeing as the courts initially put a delay to this but then allowed Airbus to go ahead and cancel the orders, give you an indication on whether it was proper for Airbus to do this. Seeing as they were not stopped from doing this while the case was ongoing means the courts found nothing wrong with the steps Airbus took.

StTim · Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:17 pm

Qatara340 wrote:

QR states there is a safety issue (It IS a safety issue; otherwise Airbus will not have improved this design). Is the issue enough to ground the planes? Airbus says no, Qatar says yes.

Airbus constantly improves their frames. This can be because:

The improvement takes mass out of the frame,
The improvement reduces the cost of the item,
The improvement reduces build time and complexity,
The improvement reduces future maintenance or other operating cost
The improvement fixes a safety issue - normally flagged up by an AD.

So your statement is inaccurate as there are many reasons Airbus are changing their frames.

Gar1G · Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:18 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Nice thoughts, but where is the Airbus "win" in your scenario? Sure, they can still sell aircraft to QR, but you forget at the moment they don't want to. At a minimum QR need to pay Airbus' legal costs.

Airbus win is probably as stated already:
- Mainly a PR-position (outside of the a.net and avgeek world there's a decent portion of people who buy into the QR narrative so its in Airbus' interest to make that stop)
- Yes they may be sick of QR but QR is a key customer who could theoretically place more orders for 350s which would be a win in the longer term sense (remember that before all this drama AAB sang praises of 350 a lot. They do/did love their 350s and the capability it gives them. I also wouldn't doubt that QR had a big input into the a350F specs so that could be ordered too).

frigatebird · Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:31 pm

Gar1G wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
Nice thoughts, but where is the Airbus "win" in your scenario? Sure, they can still sell aircraft to QR, but you forget at the moment they don't want to. At a minimum QR need to pay Airbus' legal costs.

Airbus win is probably as stated already:
- Mainly a PR-position (outside of the a.net and avgeek world there's a decent portion of people who buy into the QR narrative so its in Airbus' interest to make that stop)
- Yes they may be sick of QR but QR is a key customer who could theoretically place more orders for 350s which would be a win in the longer term sense (remember that before all this drama AAB sang praises of 350 a lot. They do/did love their 350s and the capability it gives them. I also wouldn't doubt that QR had a big input into the a350F specs so that could be ordered too).

I wouldn't hold my breath for a QR A350F order. Even before launch, QR already said it was unlikely to order the A350F as long as the paint issue was not solved satisfactorily by Airbus. So I doubt Airbus designed the A350F to QR's needs like Boeing designed the 777X for EK. And there is the small detail of QR already having ordered 34 777-8F's as replacement for their current freighter fleet :scratchchin:

Maybe in a few years, when the dust has settled and AAB has retired from QR, A new A350 order will be placed. I think QR can really use the 319t A350-1000. Don't think Boeing will build the 777-8 pax version, not even for QR.

Weatherwatcher1 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:58 pm

frigatebird wrote:
Gar1G wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
Nice thoughts, but where is the Airbus "win" in your scenario? Sure, they can still sell aircraft to QR, but you forget at the moment they don't want to. At a minimum QR need to pay Airbus' legal costs.

Airbus win is probably as stated already:
- Mainly a PR-position (outside of the a.net and avgeek world there's a decent portion of people who buy into the QR narrative so its in Airbus' interest to make that stop)
- Yes they may be sick of QR but QR is a key customer who could theoretically place more orders for 350s which would be a win in the longer term sense (remember that before all this drama AAB sang praises of 350 a lot. They do/did love their 350s and the capability it gives them. I also wouldn't doubt that QR had a big input into the a350F specs so that could be ordered too).

I wouldn't hold my breath for a QR A350F order. Even before launch, QR already said it was unlikely to order the A350F as long as the paint issue was not solved satisfactorily by Airbus. So I doubt Airbus designed the A350F to QR's needs like Boeing designed the 777X for EK. And there is the small detail of QR already having ordered 34 777-8F's as replacement for their current freighter fleet

Maybe in a few years, when the dust has settled and AAB has retired from QR, A new A350 order will be placed. I think QR can really use the 319t A350-1000. Don't think Boeing will build the 777-8 pax version, not even for QR.

I agree. 34 777X freighter orders with16 options means that an A350F order doesn’t sound likely at all. Also about half their fleet of 777-200Fs are less than 4 years old. Those planes have a lot of life in them. Unlike passenger airplanes, it’s not common to see freighters retired after 12 years and sold to other airlines. Although with Qatar, you never know

guillermohs · Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:59 pm

It's now official:

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/pres ... al-dispute

LAXintl · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:02 pm

Joint statement from Airbus and Qatar

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fn5Vw8WaMAA ... me=900x900

ikolkyo · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:02 pm

Apparently the cancelled aircraft orders will be reinstated as well. Quite the turnaround in such a short time. https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... DYnVCAHLPA

enzo011 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:11 pm

Like many called, the closer it comes to the trial the more likely a settlement will be reached. Once it came to providing evidence from Qatar their case seemed to struggle. If the orders are restored it should put to bed the idea that Qatar had any viable argument for grounding the aircraft, QCAA involvement or not. We still have no idea why they grounded the aircraft other than they were grounded as documentation was lacking.

StTim · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:13 pm

I suspect that Qatar was getting feedback from their lawyers that the case wasn't going their way. Very few of such cases get to the court proceedings as that is usually in neither parties best interest. As the date approaches the pressure increases.

Yes Airbus will be happy to reinstate the order. Watch what that means for their order book. The terms will never be disclosed but my money is on more smiles in Toulouse than in Qatar.

Glad it is resolved.

zeke · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:18 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
If you don't believe it, rewind a decade and review the Airbus vs. AA "beef" over AA587 that A.net was convinced would last for all time..... AA ended up coming back to Airbus for (what was then) the biggest order of all time.

That was just fanboy hogwash, still see it today with all the excuses why AS, WS, UA could not possibly buy Airbus.

Fact is when this dispute commenced QR was flying a very reduced route structure and had laid off a lot of staff. By co-incidence by not taking new deliveries, grounding aircraft and claim AOG payments looked on paper the most profitable airline in the world.

JerseyFlyer · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:34 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Apparently the cancelled aircraft orders will be reinstated as well. Quite the turnaround in such a short time. https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... DYnVCAHLPA

This says including the 50 A321s. If correct, I wonder if they will still need the MAXes they ordered as replacements

Rhal97 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:36 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Apparently the cancelled aircraft orders will be reinstated as well. Quite the turnaround in such a short time. https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... DYnVCAHLPA

This says including the 50 A321s. If correct, I wonder if they will still need the MAXes they ordered as replacements

May explain why we saw the MAX 8 in QR colours

accentra · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:36 pm

To me, the judge called Qatar's bluff: either provide the rationale or AAB will have to take to the stand. I can't imagine Qatar's lawyers, or perhaps even AAB himself, would think that AAB would make a 'credible' or 'compelling' witness. He was likely to have left looking a laughing stock, hence this sudden turnaround. Just my speculation, obviously.

seahawk · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:36 pm

zeke wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
If you don't believe it, rewind a decade and review the Airbus vs. AA "beef" over AA587 that A.net was convinced would last for all time..... AA ended up coming back to Airbus for (what was then) the biggest order of all time.

That was just fanboy hogwash, still see it today with all the excuses why AS, WS, UA could not possibly buy Airbus.

Fact is when this dispute commenced QR was flying a very reduced route structure and had laid off a lot of staff. By co-incidence by not taking new deliveries, grounding aircraft and claim AOG payments looked on paper the most profitable airline in the world.

A company like Airbus will always bid when a large airline seeks new planes and even it is only to keep Boeing honest when it comes to pricing. But they might think, that it is not bad if they loose, so the bid will either make them a good profit or they will loose, but not mind that very much.

Gar1G · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:39 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Apparently the cancelled aircraft orders will be reinstated as well. Quite the turnaround in such a short time. https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... DYnVCAHLPA

This says including the 50 A321s. If correct, I wonder if they will still need the MAXes they ordered as replacements

Hah! I doubt they will want to piss off Boeing now having just finished with Airbus - so probably room for both.

scbriml · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:47 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Apparently the cancelled aircraft orders will be reinstated as well. Quite the turnaround in such a short time. https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... DYnVCAHLPA

Currently neither party is confirming this.

scbriml · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:50 pm

Gar1G wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Apparently the cancelled aircraft orders will be reinstated as well. Quite the turnaround in such a short time. https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... DYnVCAHLPA

This says including the 50 A321s. If correct, I wonder if they will still need the MAXes they ordered as replacements

Hah! I doubt they will want to piss off Boeing now having just finished with Airbus - so probably room for both.

Given the circumstances under which the order was placed, I'd be amazed if they weren't able to cancel and transfer any payments to the 96 widebodies they still have on order with Boeing.

mig17 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:53 pm

What was the mix of the 23 cancelled A350?

ikolkyo · Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:55 pm

scbriml wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Apparently the cancelled aircraft orders will be reinstated as well. Quite the turnaround in such a short time. https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... DYnVCAHLPA

Currently neither party is confirming this.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/airbus-rev ... foajbs07p9

Articuno · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:01 pm

mig17 wrote:
What was the mix of the 23 cancelled A350?

All A35K

piedmontf284000 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:08 pm

Two years later, after millions in legal fees, and both parties are right back to where it started. No compensation to QR but they get back their airplanes they ordered. Airbus gets a customer back. All this because of some planes losing paint and not looking shiny. Well done Akbar Al Bakar, you showed them!

DCA350 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:12 pm

Wow this is huge.. Glad the smarter heads prevailed and put this tantrum behind them.. Now we see why the already built Qatar A35Ks have been so active.

Motorhussy · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:22 pm

Funny that now the global airline and travel industry looks set to fast track recovery, QR rolls over. They need the planes.

Breathe · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:32 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Two years later, after millions in legal fees, and both parties are right back to where it started. No compensation to QR but they get back their airplanes they ordered. Airbus gets a customer back. All this because of some planes losing paint and not looking shiny. Well done Akbar Al Bakar, you showed them!

Hey, at least some lawyers did alright from this fiasco. No doubt as they're laughing all the way to the bank to deposit all the money they've made, while also deciding what fancy new cars they'll be upgrading to as a result of their bonus payday. :lol:

Breathe · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:33 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Wow this is huge.. Glad the smarter heads prevailed and put this tantrum behind them.. Now we see why the already built Qatar A35Ks have been so active.

I'm looking forward to seeing how AAB spins this. :biggrin:

RayChuang · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:36 pm

This is also good news for EK. EK has 50 A359's on order and (I think) they were going to delay deliveries until the QR/Airbus court case was completed.

Breathe · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:38 pm

According to Bloomberg, Qatar will be recieving their A321neo's in 2026 instead of 2023.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... r-AA1706EN

Airbus said it will reinstate Qatar’s orders for 50 A321 single-aisle aircraft that the company had revoked as part of the dispute. It will also hand over the remaining 23 A350s from Qatar’s pending order book, with deliveries starting this year. Qatar will get the A321neo models from 2026, an Airbus spokesman said. That’s later than the previous schedule due to commence in 2023.

ElroyJetson · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:40 pm

Enormous amounts of speculation in this thread with no factual basis to support the conclusions expressed. The fact is both parties reached an agreement without going to trial. Neither side has liability, and the problem sounds like it will be fixed to both parties' satisfaction. In my unbiased opinion it sounds like a win for both Arbus and QR

If others choose to assume one party or the other "got over or won," knock yourself out. But the facts don't support it.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-02-01/

scbriml · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:42 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Two years later, after millions in legal fees, and both parties are right back to where it started. No compensation to QR but they get back their airplanes they ordered. Airbus gets a customer back. All this because of some planes losing paint and not looking shiny. Well done Akbar Al Bakar, you showed them!

Given we don't know the terms of the agreement, how you can be certain that QR received no compensation?

scbriml · Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:52 pm

Breathe wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Wow this is huge.. Glad the smarter heads prevailed and put this tantrum behind them.. Now we see why the already built Qatar A35Ks have been so active.

I'm looking forward to seeing how AAB spins this.

He will say that Airbus agreed to fix the 'broken' planes and reinstated the orders that they cancelled against QR's wishes. He'll likely claim that's all QR ever wanted and he's perfectly happy with the outcome.

Metchalus · Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:05 pm

This is pretty much Airbus win. The court case is dropped and they get the orders back. It's a pretty good outcome all things considered.

As for QR they can go to the figurative back of the line for aircraft.

scbriml wrote:
Gar1G wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:

This says including the 50 A321s. If correct, I wonder if they will still need the MAXes they ordered as replacements

Hah! I doubt they will want to piss off Boeing now having just finished with Airbus - so probably room for both.

Given the circumstances under which the order was placed, I'd be amazed if they weren't able to cancel and transfer any payments to the 96 widebodies they still have on order with Boeing.

That would've been exceptionally lenient on the part of Boeing. Especially considering that QR had nobody else to turn to at the time.

wjcandee · Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:16 pm

I personally think it's hilarious that the parties' ACTUAL conduct is exactly what many of us thought: once you resolve the business dispute, all is forgiven and the parties can go forward and do business in the future. Indeed, it's better than that: the purchase of the previously-ordered aircraft became part of the settlement. Entirely-predictable. It's all maneuvering and posturing, and when an opportunity for a business solution presents itself, everything moves forward -- as it should.

The lack of understanding of how business works (and rational people work) is really kind of sad, and it's a broadly-held phenomenon.

DCA350 · Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:23 pm

Breathe wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Wow this is huge.. Glad the smarter heads prevailed and put this tantrum behind them.. Now we see why the already built Qatar A35Ks have been so active.

I'm looking forward to seeing how AAB spins this.

I have a feeling this came from the Emir or somebody close to him.. France and Qatar have a massive strategic relationship.. AAB had to fall in line on this one..

KPTKRampy · Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:26 pm

I wonder if this means that the MAX order gets cancelled…

IWMBH · Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:27 pm

But what is QR going to do with those 737's they ordered? I thought they where replacements for the A320 order Airbus canceled. Now this order is back on the books does this mean that QR gets more NB's that they need?

majano · Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:31 pm

It is not being sentimental to choose not to do business with a litigious customer who served the press with damaging images of your product. Airbus has decided to re-establish its relationship with QR, I would say there are further developments to come or to be made public.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net