New Zealand aviation thread - August 2022

DavidByrne · Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:16 am

Interestingly, NZ’s JFK service will operate Mon/Th/Sa, while QF’s will be We/Fr/Su. Head-to-head, but not quite.

NZ516 · Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:05 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Interestingly, NZ’s JFK service will operate Mon/Th/Sa, while QF’s will be We/Fr/Su. Head-to-head, but not quite.

Just needs a Tuesday flight then there is your daily AKL-JFK service perfectly

NZ6 · Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:13 pm

NZ516 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
What they didn't announce but probably have already decided is that this route will be canned after about 2 years when the direct SYD-JFK services commence using the Sunrise A350s.

I think that's exactly what will happen.

I've read a lot about how QF ruined NZ's day. Firstly any headline away from the loss isn't ruining anything. QF essentially admitting thy can't give ground to NZ until Sunrise delivers SYD-JFK proves what strong position NZ has in the AU-US market.

I suspect and agree QF will remain in the NZ-US market post sunrise, my guess is they'll move to AKL-DFW

While "unexpected" there's always been a high level of risk at NZ that QF would reopen North America and take back some of that direct deeper traffic beyond LAX on their own metal.

Qantas says it wants to keep AKL-JFK and SYD-JFK simultaneously, believing JFK has enough O&D. With AA also on AKL-DFW the One World alliance will have even a stronger foot hold in NZ.

Cool what they say and what I predict differ, QF isn't likely going to come outright and say we intend to axe the route when we open SYD.

Kiwiandrew · Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:38 pm

NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

I think that's exactly what will happen.

I've read a lot about how QF ruined NZ's day. Firstly any headline away from the loss isn't ruining anything. QF essentially admitting thy can't give ground to NZ until Sunrise delivers SYD-JFK proves what strong position NZ has in the AU-US market.

I suspect and agree QF will remain in the NZ-US market post sunrise, my guess is they'll move to AKL-DFW

While "unexpected" there's always been a high level of risk at NZ that QF would reopen North America and take back some of that direct deeper traffic beyond LAX on their own metal.

Qantas says it wants to keep AKL-JFK and SYD-JFK simultaneously, believing JFK has enough O&D. With AA also on AKL-DFW the One World alliance will have even a stronger foot hold in NZ.

Cool what they say and what I predict differ, QF isn't likely going to come outright and say we intend to axe the route when we open SYD.

I agree, I'll be ( pleasantly) surprised if this route sticks around once SYD/MEL-JFK non-stop services commence with Project Sunrise.

ZK-NBT · Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:43 pm

NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

I think that's exactly what will happen.

I've read a lot about how QF ruined NZ's day. Firstly any headline away from the loss isn't ruining anything. QF essentially admitting thy can't give ground to NZ until Sunrise delivers SYD-JFK proves what strong position NZ has in the AU-US market.

I suspect and agree QF will remain in the NZ-US market post sunrise, my guess is they'll move to AKL-DFW

While "unexpected" there's always been a high level of risk at NZ that QF would reopen North America and take back some of that direct deeper traffic beyond LAX on their own metal.

Qantas says it wants to keep AKL-JFK and SYD-JFK simultaneously, believing JFK has enough O&D. With AA also on AKL-DFW the One World alliance will have even a stronger foot hold in NZ.

Cool what they say and what I predict differ, QF isn't likely going to come outright and say we intend to axe the route when we open SYD.

Yep QF have talked about MEL-JFK as well, AKL-JFK is a heck of a long flight when it might take a few pax that wish to stop plus some connections from BNE and anywhere else they might add into AKL from Australia, it won’t fill a plane and while they will get a little bit of traffic ex AKL I would think NZ would be daily by then. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if NZ increase before QF even start.

I would expect QF to keep PER-LHR when project sunrise starts ex SYD/MEL-LHR.

Question, did NZ buy some LHR slots when they sold the old NZ1/2 slots, and then lease those slots to another carrier? I am pretty sure they sold the old HKG-LHR slot to CX after an initial lease?

ZaphodHarkonnen · Sat Aug 27, 2022 1:53 am

To touch on the WLG long haul stuff with a different point. Given the local government elections this year, any decision on runway extension or other expansion of the airport will run face first into the new council. So even if Infratil wanted to stump up their share of an investment, which they don’t, you’d still have to get approval from the local council.

As a Wellingtonian I’d love to have non stop service to Singapore. But given the other demands for investment, I’d rather the money goes elsewhere right now.

NZ516 · Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:26 am

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/seven-shar ... -residents

Here is a good story. Whale Watching planes are helping out the public by offering affordable flights between Nelson and Blenheim. In one day they operated 12 flights that's a real help to get the public where they need to be while the road is out.

anstar · Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:56 am

ZK-NBT wrote:

Yep QF have talked about MEL-JFK as well, AKL-JFK is a heck of a long flight when it might take a few pax that wish to stop plus some connections from BNE and anywhere else they might add into AKL from Australia, it won’t fill a plane and while they will get a little bit of traffic ex AKL I would think NZ would be daily by then. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if NZ increase before QF even start.

Its not just the ex AU/NZ market - a large part of this will be driven by the US point of sale.

NZ321 · Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:35 pm

Just perhaps... If QF come along next with "SYD/MEL/BNE etc" via AKL to ORD (since the once much touted QF launch of nonstop service from BNE to ORD seems to have vanished from the radar), NZ could consider launching AKL-YYZ? It's shorter than JFK, so very doable, no way QF will go for a direct connection on that route, and NZ and AC can work together to make it stick. Could also see YYZ working for connections.

ZK-NBT · Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:36 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Just perhaps... If QF come along next with "SYD/MEL/BNE etc" via AKL to ORD (since the once much touted QF launch of nonstop service from BNE to ORD seems to have vanished from the radar), NZ could consider launching AKL-YYZ? It's shorter than JFK, so very doable, no way QF will go for a direct connection on that route, and NZ and AC can work together to make it stick. Could also see YYZ working for connections.

NZ biggest problem will be lack of aircraft, I could see them increase JFK, the new 787s are now due late 2024. It is possible I think QF do AKL-ORD if they have enough aircraft as well.

NZ516 · Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:26 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Just perhaps... If QF come along next with "SYD/MEL/BNE etc" via AKL to ORD (since the once much touted QF launch of nonstop service from BNE to ORD seems to have vanished from the radar), NZ could consider launching AKL-YYZ? It's shorter than JFK, so very doable, no way QF will go for a direct connection on that route, and NZ and AC can work together to make it stick. Could also see YYZ working for connections.

NZ biggest problem will be lack of aircraft, I could see them increase JFK, the new 787s are now due late 2024. It is possible I think QF do AKL-ORD if they have enough aircraft as well.

This is a real big challenge more so for QF but does effect NZ too. QF might have to lease some 787s soon as the 3 on order won't be enough to restart BNE and MEL to SFO and their proposed BNE to ORD. Plus a lot of their existing flights are not back to daily yet. I can see the proposed NZ lease aircraft being extended to help cover all their reinstated routes.

ZK-NBT · Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:50 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Just perhaps... If QF come along next with "SYD/MEL/BNE etc" via AKL to ORD (since the once much touted QF launch of nonstop service from BNE to ORD seems to have vanished from the radar), NZ could consider launching AKL-YYZ? It's shorter than JFK, so very doable, no way QF will go for a direct connection on that route, and NZ and AC can work together to make it stick. Could also see YYZ working for connections.

NZ biggest problem will be lack of aircraft, I could see them increase JFK, the new 787s are now due late 2024. It is possible I think QF do AKL-ORD if they have enough aircraft as well.

This is a real big challenge more so for QF but does effect NZ too. QF might have to lease some 787s soon as the 3 on order won't be enough to restart BNE and MEL to SFO and their proposed BNE to ORD. Plus a lot of their existing flights are not back to daily yet. I can see the proposed NZ lease aircraft being extended to help cover all their reinstated routes.

QF will now have all 10 A380s back in service by years end 2023. I would think these will only replace 789 flying to free them up. Not sure on MEL/BNE-SFO, SYD-SFO has been pushed back again due aircraft shortage, now Feb 2023, BNE-SFO would get an A332. Not sure if they will actually do ORD or not? And from BNE or AKL possibly?

PA515 · Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:28 am

Air NZ 789 ZK-NZJ is on it's way to SIN as NZ6007 for maintenance and Wifi installation.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nzj

PA515

PA515 · Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:36 am

Today's AKL-HBA-AKL was cancelled. ZK-NNC was meant to do it but it's doing AKL-ZQN-AKL x 2 instead.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nnc

PA515

DavidByrne · Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:51 am

PA515 wrote:
Today's AKL-HBA-AKL was cancelled. ZK-NNC was meant to do it but it's doing AKL-ZQN-AKL x 2 instead.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nnc

PA515

Was at MEL this morning and NZ’s MEL-ZQN was cancelled as well. Was there a reason for either cancellation that anyone is aware of? Interesting also that AKL-HBA was to have been an A321 again - how often does this happen?

zkncj · Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:46 am

DavidByrne wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Today's AKL-HBA-AKL was cancelled. ZK-NNC was meant to do it but it's doing AKL-ZQN-AKL x 2 instead.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nnc

PA515

Was at MEL this morning and NZ’s MEL-ZQN was cancelled as well. Was there a reason for either cancellation that anyone is aware of? Interesting also that AKL-HBA was to have been an A321 again - how often does this happen?

Seems pretty regularly, more due to fleet allocation in AKL. Ex AKL there is only a few a321N sectors, the a320N are mainly busy ex WLG,CHC,ZQN.

Could of been a over water equipment issue, if it did some ZQN trips instead.

NZ516 · Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:36 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

NZ biggest problem will be lack of aircraft, I could see them increase JFK, the new 787s are now due late 2024. It is possible I think QF do AKL-ORD if they have enough aircraft as well.

This is a real big challenge more so for QF but does effect NZ too. QF might have to lease some 787s soon as the 3 on order won't be enough to restart BNE and MEL to SFO and their proposed BNE to ORD. Plus a lot of their existing flights are not back to daily yet. I can see the proposed NZ lease aircraft being extended to help cover all their reinstated routes.

QF will now have all 10 A380s back in service by years end 2023. I would think these will only replace 789 flying to free them up. Not sure on MEL/BNE-SFO, SYD-SFO has been pushed back again due aircraft shortage, now Feb 2023, BNE-SFO would get an A332. Not sure if they will actually do ORD or not? And from BNE or AKL possibly?

So it's possible for 3 -4 787s to be redeployed when the last of the A380s return to service for Qantas which will enable future expansion.

zkncj · Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:07 am

A quick look at Flightradar24, the a321N allocation for today (Sunday)

NHA: chc-syd-wlg-bne-wlg
NHB: chc-bne-zqn-bne-chc
NHC: akl-cns-akl-wlg
NHD: wlg-chc-ool-chc
NHE: wlg-syd-zqn-Syd-chc
NHF: chc-mel-zqn-mel-chc

Rough allocations seem to be,
AKL 1x
WLG 2x
CHC 3x

ZK-NBT · Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:36 am

zkncj wrote:
A quick look at Flightradar24, the a321N allocation for today (Sunday)

NHA: chc-syd-wlg-bne-wlg
NHB: chc-bne-zqn-bne-chc
NHC: akl-cns-akl-wlg
NHD: wlg-chc-ool-chc
NHE: wlg-syd-zqn-Syd-chc
NHF: chc-mel-zqn-mel-chc

Rough allocations seem to be,
AKL 1x
WLG 2x
CHC 3x

That is A320N. Yep mostly A321 ex AKL, CNS seems to get a mix as well probably more aircraft allocation related than demand related at times?

B752OS · Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:18 pm

NZ is really putting their 789 fleet to work recently. Using it on AKL-IAH/LAX/SFO/YVR/NRT/HKG/PVG/SIN/ICN/TPE/PER/HNL. Will they also use it to ORD and JFK? If so, it's impressive they are able to service all of these cities (I know not all are daily) at such long stage lengths. When will the 77Ws come back online? Do they have orders to expand their long-haul fleet so they can eventually make destinations that were formerly daily, back to daily?

zkncj · Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:23 pm

B752OS wrote:
NZ is really putting their 789 fleet to work recently. Using it on AKL-IAH/LAX/SFO/YVR/NRT/HKG/PVG/SIN/ICN/TPE/PER/HNL. Will they also use it to ORD and JFK? If so, it's impressive they are able to service all of these cities (I know not all are daily) at such long stage lengths. When will the 77Ws come back online? Do they have orders to expand their long-haul fleet so they can eventually make destinations that were formerly daily, back to daily?

The 789s also service, AKL to syd,bne,mel,per,nan,rar,apw.

They have another 8x 789/781s on order, but with order delays are a couple of years away.

The 77Ws are back already, with 2 in service now and the third almost. The rest will return over the next 3-6months, as they are restored from long term storage.

ZK-NBT · Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:40 pm

zkncj wrote:
B752OS wrote:
NZ is really putting their 789 fleet to work recently. Using it on AKL-IAH/LAX/SFO/YVR/NRT/HKG/PVG/SIN/ICN/TPE/PER/HNL. Will they also use it to ORD and JFK? If so, it's impressive they are able to service all of these cities (I know not all are daily) at such long stage lengths. When will the 77Ws come back online? Do they have orders to expand their long-haul fleet so they can eventually make destinations that were formerly daily, back to daily?

The 789s also service, AKL to syd,bne,mel,per,nan,rar,apw.

They have another 8x 789/781s on order, but with order delays are a couple of years away.

The 77Ws are back already, with 2 in service now and the third almost. The rest will return over the next 3-6months, as they are restored from long term storage.

Also CAN freight runs.
Even with all of those they are probably only using 12 or so of 14 789s with 1 in repaint or WIFI installation. Long haul I think PVG/HKG/NRT are daily but mostly freight only the rest are mostly no more than 3 weekly, some less than that. LAX is a daily 77W plus 3 789s.

zkncj · Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:37 pm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300673243/air-new-zealand-unveils-worldfirst-plane-without-a-koru-on-the-tail

NZ's new A321NEO in the Stair Alliance levy is out of the paint-shop, in a non traditional Star Alliance scheme of all black.

NZ516 · Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:05 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
A quick look at Flightradar24, the a321N allocation for today (Sunday)

NHA: chc-syd-wlg-bne-wlg
NHB: chc-bne-zqn-bne-chc
NHC: akl-cns-akl-wlg
NHD: wlg-chc-ool-chc
NHE: wlg-syd-zqn-Syd-chc
NHF: chc-mel-zqn-mel-chc

Rough allocations seem to be,
AKL 1x
WLG 2x
CHC 3x

That is A320N. Yep mostly A321 ex AKL, CNS seems to get a mix as well probably more aircraft allocation related than demand related at times?

That's right with the 320 Neo operation 5 out of the 6 being used outside of AKL. While the 321neos 2 operate domestic flights AKL ZQN and 4 international from AKL and one overnight at MEL. I went to CNS and both ways was a full 321neo so the demand for the route is strong.

ZK-NBT · Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:44 am

It looks like NZ will operate 77W AKL-SIN between December 5th Through January 14th.

ZK-NBT · Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:36 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
It looks like NZ will operate 77W AKL-SIN between December 5th Through January 14th.

SFO shows 789 again for the same period SIN shows 77W, that is the period where there should be 5 77Ws, then OKO leaves. Other than Daily LAX I don’t yet know where the other 2 77Ws are, MEL is the only short haul 77W showing atm.

zkncj · Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:49 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
It looks like NZ will operate 77W AKL-SIN between December 5th Through January 14th.

SFO shows 789 again for the same period SIN shows 77W, that is the period where there should be 5 77Ws, then OKO leaves. Other than Daily LAX I don’t yet know where the other 2 77Ws are, MEL is the only short haul 77W showing atm.

Hopefully BNE gets the 77W loaded soon than later, the code 2 789s sell out so fast on this route.

Sprite8806 · Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:37 am

Hey, a couple months back we had a conversation about EK potentially coming to WLG with their 777-200LRs, and we kind of concluded it's extremely unlikely for them to come, atleast with their current fleet. Is there any chance that they could fly to WLG with their 787s or A350s when they get delivered in a few years?

LamboAston · Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:41 am

Sprite8806 wrote:
Hey, a couple months back we had a conversation about EK potentially coming to WLG with their 777-200LRs, and we kind of concluded it's extremely unlikely for them to come, atleast with their current fleet. Is there any chance that they could fly to WLG with their 787s or A350s when they get delivered in a few years?

I doubt it without a runway extension.

ZK-NBT · Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:57 am

LamboAston wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Hey, a couple months back we had a conversation about EK potentially coming to WLG with their 777-200LRs, and we kind of concluded it's extremely unlikely for them to come, atleast with their current fleet. Is there any chance that they could fly to WLG with their 787s or A350s when they get delivered in a few years?

I doubt it without a runway extension.

The only possibility really is via the Australian East coast, maybe BNE as QF don’t fly from BNE-WLG, that would mean those aircraft would have to get to BNE, I’m not sure if both A359s and 789s will be long haul configured. Tbh I would have my doubts anyway.

NZ321 · Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:53 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
It looks like NZ will operate 77W AKL-SIN between December 5th Through January 14th.

Thanks for that; that's great news for me. not often I get to do an NZ 77W these days, based in KUL. BTW I could be wrong, but I don't think NZ have ever regularly scheduled the 77W onto SIN-AKL. I guess there must be a reasonable demand for seats (premium ones too) during this period if they're allocating a 77W onto SIN-AKL when they haven't previously done so ?

ZK-NBT · Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:34 am

NZ321 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
It looks like NZ will operate 77W AKL-SIN between December 5th Through January 14th.

Thanks for that; that's great news for me. not often I get to do an NZ 77W these days, based in KUL. BTW I could be wrong, but I don't think NZ have ever regularly scheduled the 77W onto SIN-AKL. I guess there must be a reasonable demand for seats (premium ones too) during this period if they're allocating a 77W onto SIN-AKL when they haven't previously done so ?

The 77W has never been regularly scheduled to Asia. Demand is high for sure, NZ were originally going to operate CHC-SIN but don’t have enough aircraft so looks like the next best thing to cover was a 77W ex AKL, SQ will be 11 weekly 77W/359 and daily 359 ex CHC.

NZ516 · Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:38 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
It looks like NZ will operate 77W AKL-SIN between December 5th Through January 14th.

Thanks for that; that's great news for me. not often I get to do an NZ 77W these days, based in KUL. BTW I could be wrong, but I don't think NZ have ever regularly scheduled the 77W onto SIN-AKL. I guess there must be a reasonable demand for seats (premium ones too) during this period if they're allocating a 77W onto SIN-AKL when they haven't previously done so ?

The 77W has never been regularly scheduled to Asia. Demand is high for sure, NZ were originally going to operate CHC-SIN but don’t have enough aircraft so looks like the next best thing to cover was a 77W ex AKL, SQ will be 11 weekly 77W/359 and daily 359 ex CHC.

An interesting development. It must be a solid performer AKL-SIN to get the upgrade from 789-77W. The return Y fares to SIN were higher than the other Asian routes that a further away from AKL which really shows something. Now we have the 3rd 77W allocated where will the other 3 be heading perhaps SFO daily and IAH it has been there in the past.

NZ516 · Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:55 pm

LamboAston wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Hey, a couple months back we had a conversation about EK potentially coming to WLG with their 777-200LRs, and we kind of concluded it's extremely unlikely for them to come, atleast with their current fleet. Is there any chance that they could fly to WLG with their 787s or A350s when they get delivered in a few years?

I doubt it without a runway extension.

And just last week there was a conversation about SQ 350 flying WLG-SIN non stop off the current runway. But I don't believe it's technically possible with a full load and they will still need an extension.

zkncj · Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:10 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:

Thanks for that; that's great news for me. not often I get to do an NZ 77W these days, based in KUL. BTW I could be wrong, but I don't think NZ have ever regularly scheduled the 77W onto SIN-AKL. I guess there must be a reasonable demand for seats (premium ones too) during this period if they're allocating a 77W onto SIN-AKL when they haven't previously done so ?

The 77W has never been regularly scheduled to Asia. Demand is high for sure, NZ were originally going to operate CHC-SIN but don’t have enough aircraft so looks like the next best thing to cover was a 77W ex AKL, SQ will be 11 weekly 77W/359 and daily 359 ex CHC.

An interesting development. It must be a solid performer AKL-SIN to get the upgrade from 789-77W. The return Y fares to SIN were higher than the other Asian routes that a further away from AKL which really shows something. Now we have the 3rd 77W allocated where will the other 3 be heading perhaps SFO daily and IAH it has been there in the past.

SIN is also one the only main key Asian transit ports that is freely reopened. There are other Asian ports currently open, but have more restrictions etc, SIN is almost back to pre covid rules.

a7ala · Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:48 pm

LamboAston wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Hey, a couple months back we had a conversation about EK potentially coming to WLG with their 777-200LRs, and we kind of concluded it's extremely unlikely for them to come, atleast with their current fleet. Is there any chance that they could fly to WLG with their 787s or A350s when they get delivered in a few years?

I doubt it without a runway extension.

You would need MCTOW takeoff to do it non-stop WLG->DXB which is getting into the realms of a 3000m runway (around 1000m than the airport has now). Even the LR would need a runway of that length.

I think the previous WLG EK discussion was that someone said they have inside info that EK was looking at a DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB triangle which is possible from the existing runway. The B787 variants, A359, B77L and B77W should be able to land no problem at WLG enabling triangles with AKL/CHC and tags with Australia.

mrkerr7474 · Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:52 am

a7ala wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Hey, a couple months back we had a conversation about EK potentially coming to WLG with their 777-200LRs, and we kind of concluded it's extremely unlikely for them to come, atleast with their current fleet. Is there any chance that they could fly to WLG with their 787s or A350s when they get delivered in a few years?

I doubt it without a runway extension.

You would need MCTOW takeoff to do it non-stop WLG->DXB which is getting into the realms of a 3000m runway (around 1000m than the airport has now). Even the LR would need a runway of that length.

I think the previous WLG EK discussion was that someone said they have inside info that EK was looking at a DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB triangle which is possible from the existing runway. The B787 variants, A359, B77L and B77W should be able to land no problem at WLG enabling triangles with AKL/CHC and tags with Australia.

If the BNE flight by EK was a 777, they could do a RTN tag to WLG for competition even if 3/4 times weekly, as other ports on the East Coast are A380 operated but as is BNE it's doubtful any of it would happen.

As you mentioned above about the triangle tag, could potentially work but would have to be a 77L to make that into WLG directly and aren't EK getting rid of the 77L?

As awesome as it would be and just overall something different and potentially cheaper prices into/out of WLG, I don't ever see those routes happening.

ZK-NBT · Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:52 am

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220829-nznw22na

NZ North America changes for NW.

Not surprised at additional LAX frequency with no AA on that route. Overall SFO capacity is almost exactly the same with 5 789s assuming code 2, vs 4 77W, 77W still offers more premium seats at 4 weekly than 789 at 5 weekly.

ZK-NBT · Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:57 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:

Thanks for that; that's great news for me. not often I get to do an NZ 77W these days, based in KUL. BTW I could be wrong, but I don't think NZ have ever regularly scheduled the 77W onto SIN-AKL. I guess there must be a reasonable demand for seats (premium ones too) during this period if they're allocating a 77W onto SIN-AKL when they haven't previously done so ?

The 77W has never been regularly scheduled to Asia. Demand is high for sure, NZ were originally going to operate CHC-SIN but don’t have enough aircraft so looks like the next best thing to cover was a 77W ex AKL, SQ will be 11 weekly 77W/359 and daily 359 ex CHC.

An interesting development. It must be a solid performer AKL-SIN to get the upgrade from 789-77W. The return Y fares to SIN were higher than the other Asian routes that a further away from AKL which really shows something. Now we have the 3rd 77W allocated where will the other 3 be heading perhaps SFO daily and IAH it has been there in the past.

SIN is the main way for with the NZ/SQ JV for NZ pax to Europe, also India via SIN.

SFO goes 789 for this period, there should be 1 more 77W somewhere, we have 10x LAX is 3 aircraft and SIN is 1 aircraft. There should be 5 available during that period, I wouldn’t think it would be another Asia route getting 1.

Sprite8806 · Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:10 am

Any update on Virgin Australia coming to NZ

bwwt · Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:40 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Just perhaps... If QF come along next with "SYD/MEL/BNE etc" via AKL to ORD (since the once much touted QF launch of nonstop service from BNE to ORD seems to have vanished from the radar), NZ could consider launching AKL-YYZ? It's shorter than JFK, so very doable, no way QF will go for a direct connection on that route, and NZ and AC can work together to make it stick. Could also see YYZ working for connections.

NZ biggest problem will be lack of aircraft, I could see them increase JFK, the new 787s are now due late 2024. It is possible I think QF do AKL-ORD if they have enough aircraft as well.

Not sure why they would go via AKL to ORD if they can do it via BNE? It would be longer for most, if not all Aus destinations and provide far less connections.

SCFlyer · Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:51 am

Sprite8806 wrote:
Any update on Virgin Australia coming to NZ

Only for the planned Queenstown flights for the foreseeable future. Unlikely to be flying anywhere else in NZ when their international 737 fleet is planned to make revenue elsewhere (Other South Pacific ex SYD and BNE and OOL-Bali)

ZK-NBT · Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:16 pm

bwwt wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Just perhaps... If QF come along next with "SYD/MEL/BNE etc" via AKL to ORD (since the once much touted QF launch of nonstop service from BNE to ORD seems to have vanished from the radar), NZ could consider launching AKL-YYZ? It's shorter than JFK, so very doable, no way QF will go for a direct connection on that route, and NZ and AC can work together to make it stick. Could also see YYZ working for connections.

NZ biggest problem will be lack of aircraft, I could see them increase JFK, the new 787s are now due late 2024. It is possible I think QF do AKL-ORD if they have enough aircraft as well.

Not sure why they would go via AKL to ORD if they can do it via BNE? It would be longer for most, if not all Aus destinations and provide far less connections.

Who knows tbh. I think it much is being read into the launching AKL-JFK by QF, I don’t see them doing any other long haul ex AKL but think ORD could be an a chance, AA will do DFW, weather they return to AKL-LAX given they struggle long haul at LAX remains to be seen.

NZ516 · Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:38 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220829-nznw22na

NZ North America changes for NW.

Not surprised at additional LAX frequency with no AA on that route. Overall SFO capacity is almost exactly the same with 5 789s assuming code 2, vs 4 77W, 77W still offers more premium seats at 4 weekly than 789 at 5 weekly.

Lots of changes indeed makes sense regarding Lax increase. It will be interesting if they increase JFK as well perhaps early next year.

ZK-NBT · Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:48 am

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220830-nznw22sin

ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
It looks like NZ will operate 77W AKL-SIN between December 5th Through January 14th.

SFO shows 789 again for the same period SIN shows 77W, that is the period where there should be 5 77Ws, then OKO leaves. Other than Daily LAX I don’t yet know where the other 2 77Ws are, MEL is the only short haul 77W showing atm.

Zkpilot · Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:59 am

bwwt wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Just perhaps... If QF come along next with "SYD/MEL/BNE etc" via AKL to ORD (since the once much touted QF launch of nonstop service from BNE to ORD seems to have vanished from the radar), NZ could consider launching AKL-YYZ? It's shorter than JFK, so very doable, no way QF will go for a direct connection on that route, and NZ and AC can work together to make it stick. Could also see YYZ working for connections.

NZ biggest problem will be lack of aircraft, I could see them increase JFK, the new 787s are now due late 2024. It is possible I think QF do AKL-ORD if they have enough aircraft as well.

Not sure why they would go via AKL to ORD if they can do it via BNE? It would be longer for most, if not all Aus destinations and provide far less connections.

1) Intl-Intl connection - much easier and faster than dom-intl in BNE.
2) Connections in AKL to pretty much every main city in Australia except Canberra and Newcastle (especially considering the NZ Tasman codeshare agreement).
3) Duration-wise there really isn’t a lot of difference in the two routes.

LamboAston · Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:23 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
Any update on Virgin Australia coming to NZ

Only for the planned Queenstown flights for the foreseeable future. Unlikely to be flying anywhere else in NZ when their international 737 fleet is planned to make revenue elsewhere (Other South Pacific ex SYD and BNE and OOL-Bali)

I must have missed the Queenstown VA plans, what were they?

tealnz · Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:24 am

Sprite8806 wrote:
Hey, a couple months back we had a conversation about EK potentially coming to WLG with their 777-200LRs, and we kind of concluded it's extremely unlikely for them to come, atleast with their current fleet. Is there any chance that they could fly to WLG with their 787s or A350s when they get delivered in a few years?

What we now know (contradicting the analysis in the Astral report) is that you can run a scheduled A359 service into Wellington at its current length – SQ did so from late 2019 until the border closed. This also tells us that SQ’s commercial analysis indicated there was revenue available ex Wellington to sustain a wide-body service – suggesting there is a good volume of premium traffic.

On top of that Zeke has reported on the basis of the Airbus performance database that an A359 ex Wellington (current runways) can reach multiple destinations in Asia nonstop will full pax.

Whether such routes are commercially interesting to SQ or EK or others at a time when airframes and crews are in short supply remains to be seen. If EK was going to launch such a service it would have to be via a port such as Kuala Lumpur or Bali.

NZ516 · Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:54 am

On top of that Zeke has reported on the basis of the Airbus performance database that an A359 ex Wellington (current runways) can reach multiple destinations in Asia nonstop will full pax.

This sentence I'm not 100% convinced yet. Long haul flights really need a long runway at max load. So WLG's 1815 m runway threshold to threshold will still need an extension.

777ER · Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:58 am

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1476235 September edition

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