Why are there daytime flights from North America to Europe?

cedarjet · Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:06 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
@chonetsao,
A 90 min turn for a wide body is easily doable at LHR for AA.
They choose not to do it, but it IS achievable .

Didn’t you have a BOM JFK drop in to offload a medical emergency and they were back in the air in under 40 minutes…?

ordbosewr · Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:29 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Daytime flights from the East Coast are more ideal than overnight flights, NYC/BOS are barely 6-7 hours from DUB/LHR, take into consideration dinner/breakfast meal service, you are barely going to sleep 4 hours if that.

I prefer the morning UA EWR-LHR flight, you get into LHR around 8PMish, into your hotel around 10PM, get a proper full nights rest and straight to work the following morning. The over night flights just don't make much sense, you land anywhere from 06:00AM-12:00PM with lack of sleep then you have to wait for your hotel check-in from 03:00PM onwards.

I wish there were more European flights that had morning departures

Agree with this on so many levels. I have done the EWR-LHR (and either JFK-LHR or IAD-LHR) daytime flights in the distant past.
The key is to take a very short nap on the flight, but stay awake most of it (or all of it if you can).
It is amazing what it does to start a week of work on that fresh state vs arriving at LHR at 6am.

mah584jr · Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:06 pm

ChasChandler wrote:
I took the family on an overnight to LHR and it was miserable for everyone. Everyone was up all day and then caught the evening flight to LHR. Nobody could sleep and when we landed it was very early the next day. You can't check into your hotel yet so we walked around all day. The whole family was dragging by mid afternoon. Give me early morning departures any day of the week.

My family and I [wife and 2 small children (3 & 1 at the time)] took the morning flight on UA (IAD-LHR) and it went phenomenally. When traveling for leisure to London there is no better alternative. We got to the hotel in Waterloo at around midnight but it only felt like 7PM for us. Everyone had an excellent sleep that night and we woke up refreshed the next day.

Bottom line: If you are traveling with children (especially small children) I can't recommend the transatlantic daytime flight high enough!

jetwet1 · Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:10 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
@chonetsao,
A 90 min turn for a wide body is easily doable at LHR for AA.
They choose not to do it, but it IS achievable .

As long as everything goes to plan, I've been into LHR 4 times in the last 6 weeks. Planes landed on time, then sat waiting for gate personnel between 30 minutes and an hour. That blows the 90 minute turn out of the water.

SRQKEF · Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:02 pm

twicearound wrote:
One of the FI BOS-KEF is run during the day leaving Logan around noon and arriving in KEF around 10PM. This flight is supported by local O&D and live cargo. If Boston wasn’t the strongest US market for Icelandair I doubt they’d run it.

FI's 2nd bank used to involve day flights on NA-KEF in 2011-2017 from a variety of destinations, which included BOS-KEF, JFK-KEF, YYZ-KEF and IAD-KEF. Flights departed KEF around 9:30-10am, arrived in the late morning and then departed around noon to arrive back in KEF at 9:30-11:30pm. These flights were popular O&D wise but what killed that particular 2nd bank were the red-eye connections to Europe (think 1:15-6:00 to ARN, FRA, CDG etc.) which weren't as popular with pax. The current 2nd bank is now instead after the main 5pm bank (leaving KEF just after 8pm), leaving only the dayflight BOS-KEF as a tiny 3rd bank connecting to red-eyes to strong O&D markets (CPH, CDG, occasional MUC/FRA). IIRC JFK-KEF was also supposed to be offered as a dayflight this summer at one point but didn't end up in the final schedule.

eta unknown · Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:28 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
@chonetsao,
A 90 min turn for a wide body is easily doable at LHR for AA.
They choose not to do it, but it IS achievable .

Achievable only in certain situations and as commented by others above- only if everything goes according to plan. I can tell you TG experimented with a 90 minute turn on some Australian flights with a 77W against the advice of the station managers. After 2 months the on ground time was adjusted to at least 2 hours.

masseybrown · Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:46 pm

The trouble with overnight/morning arrivals is either you wait HOURS for your hotel room in Europe (and I swear there are desk clerks who love telling you that your room won't be available until 5PM) or you pay for an extra day. An evening arrival is so much easier.

winGl3t · Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:56 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Concorde was always daylight eastbound, the only red eye it ever operated was SQ/BA300 BAH 2235 SIN 0710+1

Wasn't GIG-DKR-CDG a red eye?

Eagleboy · Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:06 pm

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
EI had EWR - DUB for 2 summers i think pre-covid i think

EI operate EWR-DUB daily, its an evening departure.

Around 2015-2017 (could be wrong on that) they did operate an early JFK-DUB using a B757. I think it departed Dublin around 9am local and departed JFK around 1pm (to land in Dublin at 11pm local)

The flight was very popular with business travellers. Early into NYC to get to the office, back in Dublin and in bed ready for the following day at work.

cedarjet · Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:42 pm

winGl3t wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
Concorde was always daylight eastbound, the only red eye it ever operated was SQ/BA300 BAH 2235 SIN 0710+1

Wasn't GIG-DKR-CDG a red eye?

Good point, not sure what the Air France schedule to Brazil looked like. Dakar to Rio on an SST is the most exotic airline flight in history. Supersonic across the south Atlantic. Incroyable!!

MIflyer12 · Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:30 pm

cedarjet wrote:
winGl3t wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
Concorde was always daylight eastbound, the only red eye it ever operated was SQ/BA300 BAH 2235 SIN 0710+1

Wasn't GIG-DKR-CDG a red eye?

Good point, not sure what the Air France schedule to Brazil looked like. Dakar to Rio on an SST is the most exotic airline flight in history. Supersonic across the south Atlantic. Incroyable!!

That route is really an outlier to the routes above, a big north-south component compared to the east-west travel: about 5000 nm but just 4 time zones.

DocLightning · Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:48 pm

B747forever wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I dunno but I can’t stand flying overnight.

Especially from US East Coast to Western Europe. Some of those overnight flights are barley 6 hours, which means you can at most get 3-4 hours of sleep before facing a full day at your destination.

Yeah, if you're going to Europe you just have to understand that you're going to be a hot mess on the first day and you just have to stay awake until about 8PM local and then you can dive into bed.

bierhere · Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:02 pm

I will speak for myself. If I'm going direct to London from Boston, I can fly early in the morning, work on the plane arrive early evening, have dinner, go to bed and be ready for meetings the following day. I will arrive at the meetings rested. If I take an overnight/red-eye flight, the flight time from Boston is < 5:30 hours. BA/VS will try to serve passengers twice which means it's generally difficult to sleep and the sleep time is very limited.

So, does it waste a day flying, and cost an additional day of the hotel, yes, but it also allows me to function. I can generally use most of the flight time to get work done. If I do the daytime flight, I would probably fly premium economy rather than business and save more money than the extra hotel costs. Also as a CPAP user, it eliminated the need to drag that thing out on a flight and carry 10 lbs of lithium batteries with me.

william · Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:07 pm

Left RDU at 6PM, went to sleep, woke up arriving into LHR at 9AM. Thought it was great, did not know I was in the minority. Did not care for the westbound flight across the Atlantic, 7 hours of staring at the blue sea is monotonous.

GalaxyFlyer · Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:14 pm

masseybrown wrote:
The trouble with overnight/morning arrivals is either you wait HOURS for your hotel room in Europe (and I swear there are desk clerks who love telling you that your room won't be available until 5PM) or you pay for an extra day. An evening arrival is so much easier.

Simple answer, I’ve done dozens of times, reserve and pay for the night before, room is waiting for you,

gatibosgru · Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:30 am

I know it's not Europe but I've taken MIA-GRU on both the red-eye and the daylight flight and found getting to GRU that evening for a good night of sleep was much better if I had no business reason to travel on the red eye.

slcdeltarumd11 · Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:45 am

I agree very hard to sleep on short early departing flights to Lhr. Those flgihts are not very long in time in the air at all. Usually lots of padding for delays. I think the daytime flights cater a lot more to business travelers who don’t care about the extra hotel night (which is a lot in London) and leisure traffic prefers the redeyes to save a hotel bill. I’d always rather get a good nights sleep and adjust better to the time zone on business but leisure travel I get the redeye flights just make way more financial sense.

bluecrew · Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:47 am

WA707atMSP wrote:
One VERY unusual daylight flight in the 1970s was Seaboard World JFK-FRA, using the bubble of their 747-200Fs. Passengers checked in at the AA terminal, and were bussed to the cargo terminal.

This flight was pretty innovative, because it used space in the otherwise empty upper deck; the only expense was one flight attendant, food and beverages, and the weight of the seats and passengers. Unfortunately, the service ended when Flying Tiger took over Seaboard.

That's freaking cool. Thank you for sharing, that sounds like a unique and awesome experience.

cloudboy · Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:26 pm

Now that we have long-haul narrowbody aircraft, I wonder if there will be more flights like this. As many people have mentioned, connections are a bit tricky - the require an overnight stay somewhere (although I am sure some people would prefer to overnight in a hotel versus on a plane). There might not be enough traffic to fill a wide-body, but there might be enough for a narrow body.

Delaxio · Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:31 pm

As someone's who's unable to sleep on planes (the one time I slept properly was my only time on long-haul business class with a flat bed).

More daylight flights please.

WA707atMSP · Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:43 pm

bluecrew wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
One VERY unusual daylight flight in the 1970s was Seaboard World JFK-FRA, using the bubble of their 747-200Fs. Passengers checked in at the AA terminal, and were bussed to the cargo terminal.

This flight was pretty innovative, because it used space in the otherwise empty upper deck; the only expense was one flight attendant, food and beverages, and the weight of the seats and passengers. Unfortunately, the service ended when Flying Tiger took over Seaboard.

That's freaking cool. Thank you for sharing, that sounds like a unique and awesome experience.

There is a FB group called "Airport History Lounge" that discusses airport terminals. One of the members found an Aviation Week article about the flights, and posted it to the group. If you like pictures of airports from the 1960s and 1970s, you'll LOVE this group.

Lootess · Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:26 pm

There is a ton of O&D between JFK-LHR. It's no different than taking a transcontinental flight and being able to be in your own bed that same night, on the same sleep schedule.

Business travelers sometimes like this as well, it's no different where sometimes they travel Sunday domestically to be ready for an 8am Monday meeting. Maybe they don't purchase business fare each time, so if you had to fly in economy the day before this is among the best ways to be refreshed for a meeting the next day.

drgmobile · Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:01 pm

USAirALB wrote:

For the most part, these flights tend to be lower-yielding. Business travelers prefer the overnight flights so they don't lose a day of productivity. They are also somewhat of a waste of aircraft for airlines, as the planes either have to remain overnight in London, or remain overnight at their US departure point(or UK carriers), versus compared to a standard transatlantic schedule, where a plane can just fly back/forth between North America and Europe consistently without remaining overnight anywhere.

Here's one business traveller who loves daytime flights. Gets me into London in time for a late dinner and then a more proper sleep. I know a few more business travellers who get in a day early than who head straight from the airport to a meeting. I wish there were more daytime flights, but as you note they are not good for utilization from the airline's perspective nor good for connections from the traveller's perspective.

rwm96816 · Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:14 pm

Daylight eastbound is unquestionably better, and there ought to be more of these flights. O&D from NYC isn't an excuse. From plenty of cities, one of the first flights out in the morning can connect via JFK, EWR, ORD, BOS & IAD. When I needed to travel monthly, I used ROC/IAD/LHR the most. From perhaps dozens of points inside the USA it would be similar. A day of work on the plane, sleep in my bed, and back to a productive day of work the next day. Another reason daylight is better is that morning flights more often run on time. Afternoon flights into the hub airports produced so many missed connections that now I always opt for the daylight flight. If London wasn't the final destination, I might still rather layover there and continue travel the next day. AMS, CDG and FRA are theoretically within reach but I suppose the scheduling becomes tighter.

CrewBunk · Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:30 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
The trouble with overnight/morning arrivals is either you wait HOURS for your hotel room in Europe (and I swear there are desk clerks who love telling you that your room won't be available until 5PM) or you pay for an extra day. An evening arrival is so much easier.

Simple answer, I’ve done dozens of times, reserve and pay for the night before, room is waiting for you,

That’s how I see it. Either you check into your hotel at 0700 having paid the night before, or you check in at 2200 having paid the day before ….. it’s all the same.

From a pilot point of view, I find the daylight crossing far less tiring, but, the time shift is still there. When you go to bed at midnight in London, it’s still really 1900 and you’ll stare at the ceiling for a few hours. I do four or five Atlantic crossings a month. Getting a good night sleep becomes an art.

chonetsao · Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:30 pm

drgmobile wrote:
Here's one business traveller who loves daytime flights. Gets me into London in time for a late dinner and then a more proper sleep. I know a few more business travellers who get in a day early than who head straight from the airport to a meeting. I wish there were more daytime flights, but as you note they are not good for utilization from the airline's perspective nor good for connections from the traveller's perspective.

I assume you are talking about flights that arrive before 8pm (I think one VS flight from JFK, one BA flight from JFK, one BA flight from EWR and one BA flight from BOS...etc.) in order to have the late dinner. One downside about those flights are they depart from USA extremely early, like 7-8am. It means 3-4am get up then heading to airport and check-in by 5:15-5:45am.

Don't get me wrong, I love those flights too. But fly from the US I don't reside near JFK/BOS/ORD, I rarely have any chance to take those flight unless I take overnight transit in JFK/BOS/ORD, that actually defeats the purpose to take the day time flight with a night stop included in those airport.

So I think those flights benefits people live or work around those metropolis most, hence the emphasis on O&D we are referring to here.

MIflyer12 · Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:04 pm

chonetsao wrote:
But fly from the US I don't reside near JFK/BOS/ORD, I rarely have any chance to take those flight unless I take overnight transit in JFK/BOS/ORD, that actually defeats the purpose to take the day time flight with a night stop included in those airport.

So I think those flights benefits people live or work around those metropolis most, hence the emphasis on O&D we are referring to here.

Sure, but NYC, BOS and CHI (and WAS) are some of the biggest U.S. origins to LON, too. It doesn't need to work for everybody to be economically viable.

drgmobile · Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:16 pm

chonetsao wrote:
drgmobile wrote:
Here's one business traveller who loves daytime flights. Gets me into London in time for a late dinner and then a more proper sleep. I know a few more business travellers who get in a day early than who head straight from the airport to a meeting. I wish there were more daytime flights, but as you note they are not good for utilization from the airline's perspective nor good for connections from the traveller's perspective.

I assume you are talking about flights that arrive before 8pm (I think one VS flight from JFK, one BA flight from JFK, one BA flight from EWR and one BA flight from BOS...etc.) in order to have the late dinner. One downside about those flights are they depart from USA extremely early, like 7-8am. It means 3-4am get up then heading to airport and check-in by 5:15-5:45am.

Don't get me wrong, I love those flights too. But fly from the US I don't reside near JFK/BOS/ORD, I rarely have any chance to take those flight unless I take overnight transit in JFK/BOS/ORD, that actually defeats the purpose to take the day time flight with a night stop included in those airport.

So I think those flights benefits people live or work around those metropolis most, hence the emphasis on O&D we are referring to here.

No, I was referring to the Air Canada flight from Toronto Pearson that used to leave at 9:30 am and get in at 8:20 pm. There was enough time in the morning to fly in from Ottawa, Montreal and a few other locations in Eastern Canada/U.S. with head start flights. Out on the outbound connector at 6 am, having dinner at the bar of the St. Pancras Renaissance before 10 pm. Elegance.

chonetsao · Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:26 pm

drgmobile wrote:
No, I was referring to the Air Canada flight from Toronto Pearson that used to leave at 9:30 am and get in at 8:20 pm. There was enough time in the morning to fly in from Ottawa, Montreal and a few other locations in Eastern Canada/U.S. with head start flights. Out on the outbound connector at 6 am, having dinner at the bar of the St. Pancras Renaissance before 10 pm. Elegance.

No offense, but are you sure you got the time right? The block time for YYZ-LHR is 7 hours, and had been 7 hours for years and years. The time you referenced does not make sense. To arrive by 820pm, the flight had to depart at 8:20am, push it, maybe 8:30am. I am glad I am proved wrong here.

drgmobile · Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:44 pm

chonetsao wrote:
drgmobile wrote:
No, I was referring to the Air Canada flight from Toronto Pearson that used to leave at 9:30 am and get in at 8:20 pm. There was enough time in the morning to fly in from Ottawa, Montreal and a few other locations in Eastern Canada/U.S. with head start flights. Out on the outbound connector at 6 am, having dinner at the bar of the St. Pancras Renaissance before 10 pm. Elegance.

No offense, but are you sure you got the time right? The block time for YYZ-LHR is 7 hours, and had been 7 hours for years and years. The time you referenced does not make sense. To arrive by 820pm, the flight had to depart at 8:20am, push it, maybe 8:30am. I am glad I am proved wrong here.

Absolutely positive. I am looking at my TripIt record for March 2019. AC868 leaving Toronto Pearson gate E77 at 9:30 am and arriving at 8:20 pm. Boeing 777-300ER.

hz747300 · Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:44 pm

samuelx88 wrote:
Air Saint-Pierre also sells a daytime transatlantic flight from FSP to CDG (10h30 - 20h05) during the summer. It is operated by ASL Airlines on a 737-700.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/air-saint-pierre/

This seems like an oddball flight that I would love to take sometime.

CrewBunk · Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:37 pm

drgmobile wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
drgmobile wrote:
No, I was referring to the Air Canada flight from Toronto Pearson that used to leave at 9:30 am and get in at 8:20 pm. There was enough time in the morning to fly in from Ottawa, Montreal and a few other locations in Eastern Canada/U.S. with head start flights. Out on the outbound connector at 6 am, having dinner at the bar of the St. Pancras Renaissance before 10 pm. Elegance.

No offense, but are you sure you got the time right? The block time for YYZ-LHR is 7 hours, and had been 7 hours for years and years. The time you referenced does not make sense. To arrive by 820pm, the flight had to depart at 8:20am, push it, maybe 8:30am. I am glad I am proved wrong here.

Absolutely positive. I am looking at my TripIt record for March 2019. AC868 leaving Toronto Pearson gate E77 at 9:30 am and arriving at 8:20 pm. Boeing 777-300ER.

The flight is scheduled as 7:00 when operated by a 777 or 787 and 7:15 when operated by a 767 or A330.

The times you quote above 0930-2020 will only happen when British Summer Time and Eastern Daylight Savings Time don’t quite align in March, as a result of a 4 hour time difference instead of a usual 5 hour time difference. Things line up again in April.

chonetsao · Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:46 pm

CrewBunk wrote:
The flight is scheduled as 7:00 when operated by a 777 or 787 and 7:15 when operated by a 767 or A330.

The times you quote above 0930-2020 will only happen when British Summer Time and Eastern Daylight Savings Time don’t quite align in March, as a result of a 4 hour time difference instead of a usual 5 hour time difference. Things line up again in April.

Thank you, that explains it. Only few days of the year it happens.

WesternDC6B · Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:20 pm

Just curious: do the flight attendants let you open the window shades on daytime flights?

GalaxyFlyer · Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:22 pm

WesternDC6B wrote:
Just curious: do the flight attendants let you open the window shades on daytime flights?

God, I hope so. I hate flying around on a sunny with all shades down in dark tunnel.

WesternDC6B · Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:38 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
WesternDC6B wrote:
Just curious: do the flight attendants let you open the window shades on daytime flights?

God, I hope so. I hate flying around on a sunny with all shades down in dark tunnel.

You and me, both. My trans-Atlantic flights were all overnight, and even in the dead of night, I got some flack about opening a shade. I was nowhere near flashing nav lights or any other distractions; what was the big deal? Power trip I guess...

skipness1E · Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:15 am

WesternDC6B wrote:
Just curious: do the flight attendants let you open the window shades on daytime flights?

British carriers do. United in my one Westbound out of LHR DEMANDED 100% darkness and total compliance of the black out. Mind you that was a British based crew....my FRA-SFO was fine.

Lapplander800 · Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:43 am

SRQKEF wrote:

FI's 2nd bank used to involve day flights on NA-KEF in 2011-2017 from a variety of destinations, which included BOS-KEF, JFK-KEF, YYZ-KEF and IAD-KEF. Flights departed KEF around 9:30-10am, arrived in the late morning and then departed around noon to arrive back in KEF at 9:30-11:30pm.

For some of those years there were even a handful of SEA-KEF morning flights hitting that wave.

SRQKEF wrote:

IIRC JFK-KEF was also supposed to be offered as a dayflight this summer at one point but didn't end up in the final schedule.

KEF-JFK FI613 morning flight is bookable after the 2nd afternoon bank closes in September until Christmas as well as next summer few times a week.

Kn92 · Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:01 am

For me this topic and discussion turned out to be interesting to read. Out of curiosity i put my Summer '01 OAG book out and looked up how daytime flights over the pond have been about 20 years ago. Here's what i found:

Boston-London:
BA 238 BOS 0825 LHR 1950 747
AA 156 BOS 0900 LHR 2040 AB6

Chicago-London:
AA90 ORD 0850 LHR 2235 763

NYC-London:
VS26 JFK 0825 LHR 2005 340/747
AA142 JFK 0830 LHR 2015 777 (later in Season opb AB6)
BA178 JFK 0905 LHR 2100 744
UA976 JFK 0910 LHR 2120 763
AA106 JFK 0945 LHR 2130 777
CO18 EWR 1000 LHR 2200 764
BA4 JFK 1345 LHR 2225 SSC

Toronto-London:
AC868 YYZ 0900 LHR 2115 763

All above flights operated daily. I looked for JFK,EWR,BOS,IAD,ORD,DTW and YYZ.
BTW

MIflyer12 · Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:14 pm

Kn92 wrote:
All above flights operated daily. I looked for JFK,EWR,BOS,IAD,ORD,DTW and YYZ.
BTW

Thanks for your research. I've been in DTW for most of the past 30+ years and don't remember any. Not enough O&D to make a morning flight work. Some years, not enough traffic even to make an evening flight work daily year-round.

TUGMASTER · Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:54 pm

Have had many JFK-LHR’s sun 6hrs.
As someone mentioned upthread, those block times are really padded out.

MAH4546 · Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:49 pm

In the reverse there’s only one Europe-U.S. redeye (IST-MIA on Turkish) and I’ve always been surprised there aren’t some more. I actually think it’s super convenient though obviously on short distances it doesn’t make sense.

usxguy · Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:41 pm

WesternDC6B wrote:
Just curious: do the flight attendants let you open the window shades on daytime flights?

I was asked "sternly" by my AA flight crew on both of my daytime MIA-EZE flights on the daytime flight to shut my shade -- I was in Flagship First which made this an unusual request since normally you are to be left alone. I was just enjoying the views of the flight, but I guess others wanted to sleep. I made the FAs mad by only shutting ONE of my 3 window shades and leaving the other two partially open so I can still see outside.

IrishAyes · Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:25 pm

Kn92 wrote:
For me this topic and discussion turned out to be interesting to read. Out of curiosity i put my Summer '01 OAG book out and looked up how daytime flights over the pond have been about 20 years ago. Here's what i found:

Boston-London:
BA 238 BOS 0825 LHR 1950 747
AA 156 BOS 0900 LHR 2040 AB6

Chicago-London:
AA90 ORD 0850 LHR 2235 763

NYC-London:
VS26 JFK 0825 LHR 2005 340/747
AA142 JFK 0830 LHR 2015 777 (later in Season opb AB6)
BA178 JFK 0905 LHR 2100 744
UA976 JFK 0910 LHR 2120 763
AA106 JFK 0945 LHR 2130 777
CO18 EWR 1000 LHR 2200 764
BA4 JFK 1345 LHR 2225 SSC

Toronto-London:
AC868 YYZ 0900 LHR 2115 763

All above flights operated daily. I looked for JFK,EWR,BOS,IAD,ORD,DTW and YYZ.
BTW

Thanks for this! I assume CO18 was to LGW instead of LHR since this was during Bermuda II?

dampfnudel · Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:24 am

Many years ago when I was a teenager flying from JFK to FRA, I was wondering why there wasn’t a daytime flight after another sleepless overnight flight. Later I realized it was a connection thing which didn’t apply to me since I live in NYC and the Frankfurt region was my final destination (grandma/oma lived in nearby Aschaffenburg), but would make it difficult for passengers who needed to connect from/to another flight.

jamsco99 · Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:21 am

Kn92 wrote:
For me this topic and discussion turned out to be interesting to read. Out of curiosity i put my Summer '01 OAG book out and looked up how daytime flights over the pond have been about 20 years ago. Here's what i found:

Boston-London:
BA 238 BOS 0825 LHR 1950 747
AA 156 BOS 0900 LHR 2040 AB6

Chicago-London:
AA90 ORD 0850 LHR 2235 763

NYC-London:
VS26 JFK 0825 LHR 2005 340/747
AA142 JFK 0830 LHR 2015 777 (later in Season opb AB6)
BA178 JFK 0905 LHR 2100 744
UA976 JFK 0910 LHR 2120 763
AA106 JFK 0945 LHR 2130 777
CO18 EWR 1000 LHR 2200 764
BA4 JFK 1345 LHR 2225 SSC

Toronto-London:
AC868 YYZ 0900 LHR 2115 763

All above flights operated daily. I looked for JFK,EWR,BOS,IAD,ORD,DTW and YYZ.
BTW

Was CO operating to LHR in 2001? Thought there were still at LGW then or was it a codeshare operated by VS?

SurlyBonds · Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:52 am

My home airport is in the western US. I deliberately take LH and connect in FRA or MUC, even if I'm flying to London, so that I arrive late enough to check in my hotel on arrival. The later arrival into LHR also means I don't have to force myself to stay awake for too long. The early morning arrivals at LHR simply don't work for me. There are a few nonstops that leave the western US late and arrive in Europe relatively late; these also work, too.

I've done the daylight flights from IAD to LHR. They're excellent and would be my first choice from the east coast.

SurlyBonds · Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:53 am

My home airport is in the western US. I deliberately take LH and connect in FRA or MUC, even if I'm flying to London, so that I arrive late enough to check in my hotel on arrival. The later arrival into LHR also means I don't have to force myself to stay awake for too long. The early morning arrivals at LHR simply don't work for me. There are a few nonstops that leave the western US late and arrive in Europe relatively late; these also work, too.

I've done the daylight flights from IAD to LHR. They're excellent and would be my first choice from the east coast.

airproxx · Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:56 am

Why daytime flights?....... Huh.....Why not ?

aa777lvr · Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:55 pm

London is prime business market (banking center of Europe) and the O&D to just LHR is a factor (non-connecting traffic). The fact that the folks who pay full fare for premium cabins is high compared to other European hubs. The folks paying premium fares generate the bulk of the passenger revenue (not the families paying $399 round-trip to fly to Europe).

LHR has a strict evening curfew, so there's little to no connecting traffic transiting LHR (for Oneworld carriers), which forces those carriers who operate them to operate them early in the AM on the North American side, and impacts their ability to funnel traffic that early in the morning in their North American hubs. The later is likely why there's fewer daytime flights.

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