Haven't seen this posted yet. I'm kind of in his corner at the moment. Getting real tired of the lack of respect that people feel they can get away with. I don't know if he called for DFWPD.


Spirit Airlines employee suspended after fighting woman in viral video

https://www.foxnews.com/us/spirit-airli ... iral-video

So does NK farm out their customer service team to the lowest bidder? The way I read the story the worker wasn't a Spirit employee.

910A wrote:

So does NK farm out their customer service team to the lowest bidder? The way I read the story the worker wasn't a Spirit employee.

I believe most (if not all) of Spirit’s above the wing ground handling (I am assuming-below the wing as well) is outsourced.

910A wrote:

So does NK farm out their customer service team to the lowest bidder?

They literally do.

chepos wrote:

910A wrote:

So does NK farm out their customer service team to the lowest bidder? The way I read the story the worker wasn't a Spirit employee.

I believe most (if not all) of Spirit’s above the wing ground handling (I am assuming-below the wing as well) is outsourced.

Only station with NK ground staff is FLL.

Sancho99504 wrote:

Haven't seen this posted yet. I'm kind of in his corner at the moment. Getting real tired of the lack of respect that people feel they can get away with. I don't know if he called for DFWPD.


Spirit Airlines employee suspended after fighting woman in viral video

https://www.foxnews.com/us/spirit-airli ... iral-video

Unfortunately the video does not have the start of the encounter, but I’m guessing the agent was doing their job, telling the customer the policy that is in place, what they paid for, and didn’t like the news she received, and took it out on the agent. I’m guessing this agent gets a lot of attitude from the customers as they have to pay for extra fees at checkin.

Hope she gets banned for life.

910A wrote:

So does NK farm out their customer service team to the lowest bidder? The way I read the story the worker wasn't a Spirit employee.

I haven't tried to fly NK in over 6 years. The last time I tried there was a mutiny at the airport and the Airport Police were called in and they told me this happenned at least once a week with NK. At that time NK was handled by ATS at DFW.

Sancho99504 wrote:

Haven't seen this posted yet. I'm kind of in his corner at the moment. Getting real tired of the lack of respect that people feel they can get away with. I don't know if he called for DFWPD.


Spirit Airlines employee suspended after fighting woman in viral video

https://www.foxnews.com/us/spirit-airli ... iral-video

6 years ago this was a common occurrence with Spirit at DFW. These confrontations happened at least once weekly. The flight I tried to take to ORD had an airplane that went tech and we were not kept informed by the rookie employees of ATS who were totally lost in what to do. Several passenger muntinies erupted and these two new ATS employees got threatened by a few angry passengers so much so that the Airport PD had to be called in. After waiting in that airport for 9 hours these rookie gate agents finally got the station manager out of bed and he came to the airport and cancelled the flight. As I really didn't need to fly I took a refund to my credit card and went home.

freakyrat wrote:

6 years ago this was a common occurrence with Spirit at DFW. These confrontations happened at least once weekly. The flight I tried to take to ORD had an airplane that went tech and we were not kept informed by the rookie employees of ATS who were totally lost in what to do. Several passenger muntinies erupted and these two new ATS employees got threatened by a few angry passengers so much so that the Airport PD had to be called in. After waiting in that airport for 9 hours these rookie gate agents finally got the station manager out of bed and he came to the airport and cancelled the flight. As I really didn't need to fly I took a refund to my credit card and went home.

This is not how delays and cancellations happen… this story screams Karen at the airport.

If only station managers had the power to cancel a flight..

More good stuff happening at Fight Club, I mean Spirit.

B764er wrote:

More good stuff happening at Fight Club, I mean Spirit.

Blue Spirit seems more and more apt merged airline name. They should hire the “let’s get ready to rumble” guy to record a “let’s get ready to board!” announcement.

Maybe one day airlines will get rid of the $59 fares and what comes with it. Then airlines wouldn't have to operate as credit card mills.

santi319 wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

6 years ago this was a common occurrence with Spirit at DFW. These confrontations happened at least once weekly. The flight I tried to take to ORD had an airplane that went tech and we were not kept informed by the rookie employees of ATS who were totally lost in what to do. Several passenger muntinies erupted and these two new ATS employees got threatened by a few angry passengers so much so that the Airport PD had to be called in. After waiting in that airport for 9 hours these rookie gate agents finally got the station manager out of bed and he came to the airport and cancelled the flight. As I really didn't need to fly I took a refund to my credit card and went home.

This is not how delays and cancellations happen… this story screams Karen at the airport.

If only station managers had the power to cancel a flight..

This airplane was taxiied over to domestic from the International Terminal by the mechanics. Maybe something they did caused the problem. Anyway the A320 has onboard diagnostics and pulling the tape they new exactly where the problem was. If the flight was going to take a long delay and parts had to be flown in they should have made the decision to cancel instead of keeping the passengers in the airport for NINE hours. I'm sorry but you were not there. I just watched the whole situation play out and watched the police keep order. The Station Manager did cancel the flight.

miami123 wrote:

Maybe one day airlines will get rid of the $59 fares and what comes with it. Then airlines wouldn't have to operate as credit card mills.

WN has fare sales all the time with fares as low as $39 yet don't have the problems that NK gets. G4 and F9 don't seem to have this problem either.

mcdu wrote:

B764er wrote:

More good stuff happening at Fight Club, I mean Spirit.

Blue Spirit seems more and more apt merged airline name. They should hire the “let’s get ready to rumble” guy to record a “let’s get ready to board!” announcement.

Michael Poulsen Lead Singer from Volbeat. I like it.

Spirit seems to bring out the class of people that lean more toward Neanderthals than humans. Stinks for the employee that have to deal with it.

Sancho99504 wrote:

miami123 wrote:

Maybe one day airlines will get rid of the $59 fares and what comes with it. Then airlines wouldn't have to operate as credit card mills.

WN has fare sales all the time with fares as low as $39 yet don't have the problems that NK gets. G4 and F9 don't seem to have this problem either.

You don't need a PhD in Psychology nor an MBA in Marketing to see the dynamics of anger in play:

WN: free carry-on, two free checked bags

NK: carry-on $50 at booking, $89 at gate; 1st checked bag $42 at booking, $89 at counter; 2nd checked bag $67 at booking, $89 at counter

Ever see a Spirit customer show up at the gate with an oversized 'carry-on' and just get frantic when they hear the fee to go check the bag, and recognize they're going to miss their flight when they have to go back to the counter (Spirit doesn't seem to have facilities to take payment at the gate) and then get back through security? It's not pretty.

MIflyer12 wrote:

Sancho99504 wrote:

miami123 wrote:

Maybe one day airlines will get rid of the $59 fares and what comes with it. Then airlines wouldn't have to operate as credit card mills.

WN has fare sales all the time with fares as low as $39 yet don't have the problems that NK gets. G4 and F9 don't seem to have this problem either.

You don't need a PhD in Psychology nor an MBA in Marketing to see the dynamics of anger in play:

WN: free carry-on, two free checked bags

NK: carry-on $50 at booking, $89 at gate; 1st checked bag $42 at booking, $89 at counter; 2nd checked bag $67 at booking, $89 at counter

Ever see a Spirit customer show up at the gate with an oversized 'carry-on' and just get frantic when they hear the fee to go check the bag, and recognize they're going to miss their flight when they have to go back to the counter (Spirit doesn't seem to have facilities to take payment at the gate) and then get back through security? It's not pretty.

If Spirit only made their fees very clear during the booking process and then again during online check-in, people wouldn't be shocked or surprised. Oh wait, Spirit does. It's not Spirits fault that people can't read or lack comprehension of what they read. I've booked and flown NK multiple times and it annoyed me how many pop-ups and pages telling me to act now or pay heftier prices at the airport for everything they charge for. It's like people who try to claim that they accidentally bought basic economy on another carrier......

Sancho99504 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Sancho99504 wrote:

WN has fare sales all the time with fares as low as $39 yet don't have the problems that NK gets. G4 and F9 don't seem to have this problem either.

You don't need a PhD in Psychology nor an MBA in Marketing to see the dynamics of anger in play:

WN: free carry-on, two free checked bags

NK: carry-on $50 at booking, $89 at gate; 1st checked bag $42 at booking, $89 at counter; 2nd checked bag $67 at booking, $89 at counter

Ever see a Spirit customer show up at the gate with an oversized 'carry-on' and just get frantic when they hear the fee to go check the bag, and recognize they're going to miss their flight when they have to go back to the counter (Spirit doesn't seem to have facilities to take payment at the gate) and then get back through security? It's not pretty.

If Spirit only made their fees very clear during the booking process and then again during online check-in, people wouldn't be shocked or surprised. Oh wait, Spirit does. It's not Spirits fault that people can't read or lack comprehension of what they read. I've booked and flown NK multiple times and it annoyed me how many pop-ups and pages telling me to act now or pay heftier prices at the airport for everything they charge for. It's like people who try to claim that they accidentally bought basic economy on another carrier......

SO this.

Honestly they should just lean into it at this point. Offer the winner of the fight a free seat upgrade and have the gate check-in agents be wrestling announcers, perhaps at a special breakable desk.

MIflyer12 wrote:

Sancho99504 wrote:

miami123 wrote:

Maybe one day airlines will get rid of the $59 fares and what comes with it. Then airlines wouldn't have to operate as credit card mills.

WN has fare sales all the time with fares as low as $39 yet don't have the problems that NK gets. G4 and F9 don't seem to have this problem either.

You don't need a PhD in Psychology nor an MBA in Marketing to see the dynamics of anger in play:

WN: free carry-on, two free checked bags

NK: carry-on $50 at booking, $89 at gate; 1st checked bag $42 at booking, $89 at counter; 2nd checked bag $67 at booking, $89 at counter

Ever see a Spirit customer show up at the gate with an oversized 'carry-on' and just get frantic when they hear the fee to go check the bag, and recognize they're going to miss their flight when they have to go back to the counter (Spirit doesn't seem to have facilities to take payment at the gate) and then get back through security? It's not pretty.

100% inaccurate. At the gate they can, and do process payments and refunds, as well as you being able to do it cheaper on the app/web right up until boarding.

freakyrat wrote:

santi319 wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

6 years ago this was a common occurrence with Spirit at DFW. These confrontations happened at least once weekly. The flight I tried to take to ORD had an airplane that went tech and we were not kept informed by the rookie employees of ATS who were totally lost in what to do. Several passenger muntinies erupted and these two new ATS employees got threatened by a few angry passengers so much so that the Airport PD had to be called in. After waiting in that airport for 9 hours these rookie gate agents finally got the station manager out of bed and he came to the airport and cancelled the flight. As I really didn't need to fly I took a refund to my credit card and went home.

This is not how delays and cancellations happen… this story screams Karen at the airport.

If only station managers had the power to cancel a flight..

This airplane was taxiied over to domestic from the International Terminal by the mechanics. Maybe something they did caused the problem. Anyway the A320 has onboard diagnostics and pulling the tape they new exactly where the problem was. If the flight was going to take a long delay and parts had to be flown in they should have made the decision to cancel instead of keeping the passengers in the airport for NINE hours. I'm sorry but you were not there. I just watched the whole situation play out and watched the police keep order. The Station Manager did cancel the flight.

The 320 does have a good electronic indicators/reporting of the error but that does not necessarily tell the story of what the fix will entail. I'm not saying a 9 hour delay is reasonable, but the idea that they knew it was not going to be resolved when the initial issue was discovered is a reach. The maintenance manuals for 320 series, just like every car and airplane, have a flow from easily fixed to more complex troubleshooting. Ultimately, the station agents do not have the operational control to cancel a flight; that decision is made at the dispatch center.

zeke wrote:

Sancho99504 wrote:

Haven't seen this posted yet. I'm kind of in his corner at the moment. Getting real tired of the lack of respect that people feel they can get away with. I don't know if he called for DFWPD.


Spirit Airlines employee suspended after fighting woman in viral video

https://www.foxnews.com/us/spirit-airli ... iral-video

Unfortunately the video does not have the start of the encounter, but I’m guessing the agent was doing their job, telling the customer the policy that is in place, what they paid for, and didn’t like the news she received, and took it out on the agent. I’m guessing this agent gets a lot of attitude from the customers as they have to pay for extra fees at checkin.

Hope she gets banned for life.

That’s a pretty big presumption that it was the passenger and not the employee that escalated this. I was through DFW on Aug 10/11. The 10th saw severe wx that caused an afternoon 3 hour ground stop. My AA flight diverted to LIT. I got to DFW almost 5 hours late and went to the AA FL for dinner before going to my hotel, as all flights that night to SoCal were cancelled. Every AA staff member I encountered was curt and rude. Including the FL. I worked for AS for 36 years. I was a shop steward for 25 of those years. No one appreciates how hard it is to be on the front lines than I. But I’ve noticed that since COVID airline staff believe it is their right to act like I witnessed above. I’m not defending crappy passengers. But Airline staff is less tolerant, and more authoritative then ever before. They feel embolden to lecture and deny customers service under the guise of them feeling threatened. It’s to the point that I avoid contact with most staff at AA as much as possible and I’m EXPlat. I’m also betting there is more to this story. I’m sure the frustration was carried over from the 10th. Travel is stressful and not at all a terrific experience. But staff should still be mindful that front line positions are called Customer Service for a reason. The real issue is airlines over scheduling and under staffing.

Tack wrote:

That’s a pretty big presumption that it was the passenger and not the employee that escalated this. I was through DFW on Aug 10/11. The 10th saw severe wx that caused an afternoon 3 hour ground stop. My AA flight diverted to LIT. I got to DFW almost 5 hours late and went to the AA FL for dinner before going to my hotel, as all flights that night to SoCal were cancelled. Every AA staff member I encountered was curt and rude. Including the FL. I worked for AS for 36 years. I was a shop steward for 25 of those years. No one appreciates how hard it is to be on the front lines than I. But I’ve noticed that since COVID airline staff believe it is their right to act like I witnessed above. I’m not defending crappy passengers. But Airline staff is less tolerant, and more authoritative then ever before. They feel embolden to lecture and deny customers service under the guise of them feeling threatened. It’s to the point that I avoid contact with most staff at AA as much as possible and I’m EXPlat. I’m also betting there is more to this story. I’m sure the frustration was carried over from the 10th. Travel is stressful and not at all a terrific experience. But staff should still be mindful that front line positions are called Customer Service for a reason. The real issue is airlines over scheduling and under staffing.

This is true, however what I did see in the video was when the other male passenger intervened the passenger took the opportunity to physically assault the agent when the agent was restrained.

Tack wrote:

That’s a pretty big presumption that it was the passenger and not the employee that escalated this. I was through DFW on Aug 10/11. The 10th saw severe wx that caused an afternoon 3 hour ground stop. My AA flight diverted to LIT. I got to DFW almost 5 hours late and went to the AA FL for dinner before going to my hotel, as all flights that night to SoCal were cancelled. Every AA staff member I encountered was curt and rude. Including the FL. I worked for AS for 36 years. I was a shop steward for 25 of those years. No one appreciates how hard it is to be on the front lines than I. But I’ve noticed that since COVID airline staff believe it is their right to act like I witnessed above. I’m not defending crappy passengers. But Airline staff is less tolerant, and more authoritative then ever before. They feel embolden to lecture and deny customers service under the guise of them feeling threatened. It’s to the point that I avoid contact with most staff at AA as much as possible and I’m EXPlat. I’m also betting there is more to this story. I’m sure the frustration was carried over from the 10th. Travel is stressful and not at all a terrific experience. But staff should still be mindful that front line positions are called Customer Service for a reason. The real issue is airlines over scheduling and under staffing.

When everyone is curt and rude to a person, maybe they should be looking a little closer to home for the cause.

zeke wrote:

Tack wrote:

That’s a pretty big presumption that it was the passenger and not the employee that escalated this. I was through DFW on Aug 10/11. The 10th saw severe wx that caused an afternoon 3 hour ground stop. My AA flight diverted to LIT. I got to DFW almost 5 hours late and went to the AA FL for dinner before going to my hotel, as all flights that night to SoCal were cancelled. Every AA staff member I encountered was curt and rude. Including the FL. I worked for AS for 36 years. I was a shop steward for 25 of those years. No one appreciates how hard it is to be on the front lines than I. But I’ve noticed that since COVID airline staff believe it is their right to act like I witnessed above. I’m not defending crappy passengers. But Airline staff is less tolerant, and more authoritative then ever before. They feel embolden to lecture and deny customers service under the guise of them feeling threatened. It’s to the point that I avoid contact with most staff at AA as much as possible and I’m EXPlat. I’m also betting there is more to this story. I’m sure the frustration was carried over from the 10th. Travel is stressful and not at all a terrific experience. But staff should still be mindful that front line positions are called Customer Service for a reason. The real issue is airlines over scheduling and under staffing.

This is true, however what I did see in the video was when the other male passenger intervened the passenger took the opportunity to physically assault the agent when the agent was restrained.

I agree. How charges for assault weren’t levied toward her is beyond me. I’m just saying this could’ve been avoided had the staff member stayed professional and not gotten chesty with the passenger. She forfeited her ability to travel when she began shouting. Simply cancel her reservation and call LEO’s. His actions were not necessary. As a shop steward, we stressed that if the customer became aggressive to call for law enforcement, do not verbally respond and walk into and close the jetway door until they arrive. Verbal sparing just was never allowed. My point, post COVID, is I witness more and more staff wanting to verbally engage and be rude. I can’t see how that can be tolerated by any carrier.

Tack wrote:

zeke wrote:

Tack wrote:

That’s a pretty big presumption that it was the passenger and not the employee that escalated this. I was through DFW on Aug 10/11. The 10th saw severe wx that caused an afternoon 3 hour ground stop. My AA flight diverted to LIT. I got to DFW almost 5 hours late and went to the AA FL for dinner before going to my hotel, as all flights that night to SoCal were cancelled. Every AA staff member I encountered was curt and rude. Including the FL. I worked for AS for 36 years. I was a shop steward for 25 of those years. No one appreciates how hard it is to be on the front lines than I. But I’ve noticed that since COVID airline staff believe it is their right to act like I witnessed above. I’m not defending crappy passengers. But Airline staff is less tolerant, and more authoritative then ever before. They feel embolden to lecture and deny customers service under the guise of them feeling threatened. It’s to the point that I avoid contact with most staff at AA as much as possible and I’m EXPlat. I’m also betting there is more to this story. I’m sure the frustration was carried over from the 10th. Travel is stressful and not at all a terrific experience. But staff should still be mindful that front line positions are called Customer Service for a reason. The real issue is airlines over scheduling and under staffing.

This is true, however what I did see in the video was when the other male passenger intervened the passenger took the opportunity to physically assault the agent when the agent was restrained.

I agree. How charges for assault weren’t levied toward her is beyond me. I’m just saying this could’ve been avoided had the staff member stayed professional and not gotten chesty with the passenger. She forfeited her ability to travel when she began shouting. Simply cancel her reservation and call LEO’s. His actions were not necessary. As a shop steward, we stressed that if the customer became aggressive to call for law enforcement, do not verbally respond and walk into and close the jetway door until they arrive. Verbal sparing just was never allowed. My point, post COVID, is I witness more and more staff wanting to verbally engage and be rude. I can’t see how that can be tolerated by any carrier.

I don't disagree with most of what you said. What I do disagree with, well more to add than disagree, is that it's the employees.
I flew about 60 segments between SEA-LAW from 03/2020-11/2020 and 74 between 11/2021-07/2021. What I've noticed, is that it's been a serious two way street. It began with passengers getting pissed at employees for the mask mandates and service cuts to do social distancing guidelines. That was most of what I witnessed in 2020. In 2021, airlines decided that their flight crew had the ultimate authority on removing disruptive passengers and some did become power hungry. I witnessed one occasion where the FA went above and beyond to get a passenger to do anything that she could justify throwing him off the aircraft. It's sad really.

Moonship wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

santi319 wrote:

This is not how delays and cancellations happen… this story screams Karen at the airport.

If only station managers had the power to cancel a flight..

This airplane was taxiied over to domestic from the International Terminal by the mechanics. Maybe something they did caused the problem. Anyway the A320 has onboard diagnostics and pulling the tape they new exactly where the problem was. If the flight was going to take a long delay and parts had to be flown in they should have made the decision to cancel instead of keeping the passengers in the airport for NINE hours. I'm sorry but you were not there. I just watched the whole situation play out and watched the police keep order. The Station Manager did cancel the flight.

The 320 does have a good electronic indicators/reporting of the error but that does not necessarily tell the story of what the fix will entail. I'm not saying a 9 hour delay is reasonable, but the idea that they knew it was not going to be resolved when the initial issue was discovered is a reach. The maintenance manuals for 320 series, just like every car and airplane, have a flow from easily fixed to more complex troubleshooting. Ultimately, the station agents do not have the operational control to cancel a flight; that decision is made at the dispatch center.

The 9 hour delay on this flight caused a passenger mutiny and a gate agent was almost slugged and choked by a big monster of a guy. The police were called. Dispactch should have cancelled the flight as the required part would not get to the airport till around midnight. As it was the station manager cancelled the flight after he was woke up and called out to the airport. The gate agents from ATS had only been on the joib fo a day or two. I would really like to know how they got the part there and fixed that very same airplane to fly a flight to OHare that morning around 6am or did they just pencil whip it. Did the mechanics who taxxied the plane over from the International terminal mess up something in starting it or what? I have a fwew hours in a 320 flight simulator and had a few jumpseat rides in the 320 also. The agents and the pilots who were preflighting the aircraft new good and well what was wrong with the jet as did the mechanics and they should have informed everybody. They could haved save everyone a lot of grief. Just wasn't handled well until the station manager showed up.

freakyrat wrote:

Moonship wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

This airplane was taxiied over to domestic from the International Terminal by the mechanics. Maybe something they did caused the problem. Anyway the A320 has onboard diagnostics and pulling the tape they new exactly where the problem was. If the flight was going to take a long delay and parts had to be flown in they should have made the decision to cancel instead of keeping the passengers in the airport for NINE hours. I'm sorry but you were not there. I just watched the whole situation play out and watched the police keep order. The Station Manager did cancel the flight.

The 320 does have a good electronic indicators/reporting of the error but that does not necessarily tell the story of what the fix will entail. I'm not saying a 9 hour delay is reasonable, but the idea that they knew it was not going to be resolved when the initial issue was discovered is a reach. The maintenance manuals for 320 series, just like every car and airplane, have a flow from easily fixed to more complex troubleshooting. Ultimately, the station agents do not have the operational control to cancel a flight; that decision is made at the dispatch center.

The 9 hour delay on this flight caused a passenger mutiny and a gate agent was almost slugged and choked by a big monster of a guy. The police were called. Dispactch should have cancelled the flight as the required part would not get to the airport till around midnight. As it was the station manager cancelled the flight after he was woke up and called out to the airport. The gate agents from ATS had only been on the joib fo a day or two. I would really like to know how they got the part there and fixed that very same airplane to fly a flight to OHare that morning around 6am or did they just pencil whip it. Did the mechanics who taxxied the plane over from the International terminal mess up something in starting it or what? I have a fwew hours in a 320 flight simulator and had a few jumpseat rides in the 320 also. The agents and the pilots who were preflighting the aircraft new good and well what was wrong with the jet as did the mechanics and they should have informed everybody. They could haved save everyone a lot of grief. Just wasn't handled well until the station manager showed up.

So, a few things to unpack here... 9 hours seems pretty insane at a station as big as DFW is for NK. I would imagine almost certainly they would have another aircraft to tail swap that flight on to... That said, most airlines will run a flight super late rather than cancel it and strand the PAX. As long as the crew is legal, send it.

The plane going tech could have been any number of things. Something found during the walk-around, something popping up on the onboard diagnostics. The fact they didn't cancel the flight immediately tells me that it was a very quick fix once the part got there.

Lastly, I can absolutely assure you that the station manager did NOT cancel the flight. They legally can't. The only people who have the power to do that are in the OCC. Period. The station manager might have claimed they did it, they might have even asked the OCC to do it, but that decision was made by the OCC without regard to any input by the station manager.

14 CFR 121.533 Responsibility for operational control: domestic operations
(C) the aircraft dispatcher is responsible for
(3) canceling or redispatching the flight if, in his opinion or the opinion of the pilot in command, the flight cannot operate or continue to operate safely as planned or released.

freakyrat wrote:

santi319 wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

6 years ago this was a common occurrence with Spirit at DFW. These confrontations happened at least once weekly. The flight I tried to take to ORD had an airplane that went tech and we were not kept informed by the rookie employees of ATS who were totally lost in what to do. Several passenger muntinies erupted and these two new ATS employees got threatened by a few angry passengers so much so that the Airport PD had to be called in. After waiting in that airport for 9 hours these rookie gate agents finally got the station manager out of bed and he came to the airport and cancelled the flight. As I really didn't need to fly I took a refund to my credit card and went home.

This is not how delays and cancellations happen… this story screams Karen at the airport.

If only station managers had the power to cancel a flight..

This airplane was taxiied over to domestic from the International Terminal by the mechanics. Maybe something they did caused the problem. Anyway the A320 has onboard diagnostics and pulling the tape they new exactly where the problem was. If the flight was going to take a long delay and parts had to be flown in they should have made the decision to cancel instead of keeping the passengers in the airport for NINE hours. I'm sorry but you were not there. I just watched the whole situation play out and watched the police keep order. The Station Manager did cancel the flight.

More likely that the station manager called Ops, then the Duty Manager conferenced with the Maint Control, Dispatch, and scheduling leads, then woke a senior exec up who made the actual call to xcl.

Ask me how I know this....

Sancho99504 wrote:

miami123 wrote:

Maybe one day airlines will get rid of the $59 fares and what comes with it. Then airlines wouldn't have to operate as credit card mills.

WN has fare sales all the time with fares as low as $39 yet don't have the problems that NK gets. G4 and F9 don't seem to have this problem either.

WN prides itself on customer service. F9? and G4? I cannt say as I've never flown on them. But I have and My family has flown WN. My preference howevere us UAL.

F9Animal wrote:

I love how the woman smacks the man, then tries to run away... Tripping and landing face first to the floor.

I don't care what or who started it. The agent or supervisor should have walked away, or called police. Greyhound has lost alot of it's passengers, and it's astonishing what we see flying today. I have never flown Spirit, and I have no plans to ever fly on them.

I can point to when the bus crowds started travelling by air "In MY opinion".
Around 1997-98 when I began to see plastic trash bags full of clothes coming down the belt as checked baggage (Pro Air).

That was something you didn't even see on PeoplExpress. Almost all travellers had a modicum of class and decorum, until around the mid-90's

FlyingElvii wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

santi319 wrote:

This is not how delays and cancellations happen… this story screams Karen at the airport.

If only station managers had the power to cancel a flight..

This airplane was taxiied over to domestic from the International Terminal by the mechanics. Maybe something they did caused the problem. Anyway the A320 has onboard diagnostics and pulling the tape they new exactly where the problem was. If the flight was going to take a long delay and parts had to be flown in they should have made the decision to cancel instead of keeping the passengers in the airport for NINE hours. I'm sorry but you were not there. I just watched the whole situation play out and watched the police keep order. The Station Manager did cancel the flight.

More likely that the station manager called Ops, then the Duty Manager conferenced with the Maint Control, Dispatch, and scheduling leads, then woke a senior exec up who made the actual call to xcl.

Ask me how I know this....

I figured that but these 2 rookie gate agents didn't know what to do and drug this out for 9 hrs when they didn't have to.

mcdu wrote:

B764er wrote:

More good stuff happening at Fight Club, I mean Spirit.

Blue Spirit seems more and more apt merged airline name. They should hire the “let’s get ready to rumble” guy to record a “let’s get ready to board!” announcement.

You really want that name to stick, but the reality is that the Spirit model will not survive this takeover if we take RH at his word. If you doubt his word, then that’s a subject for another thread.

santi319 wrote:

They literally do.

So what you are saying is that you don't know how ground handling bids work. When an RFP is requested, it could be one station or a bundle of stations. I was very involved in the process when Sprit outsourced everything but FLL. We were a successful bidder because we were able to handle the scale, not because we were cheapest. There were other bidders who could undercut us on price, but they didn't have the structure to ensure they had the GSE needed, ability to keep it running, and more specifically, ensure a smooth overnight transition. In our case, we agree to a "cost plus" agreement where Spirit knew the exact markup for labor, and we agreed on a specific number of labor hours per month. If we were able to use less labor, it added to our profit margin. If we needed more labor (i.e. WX events, diversions, etc) it had to be agreed to be the local NK managers in advance, or we wouldn't get paid for it. Yes there is tremendous pressure to provide service at an agreed to cost, but there are plenty of factors that lead to a decision to award a ground handling contract. Not just being the lowest bidder.

KDAL wrote:

So, a few things to unpack here... 9 hours seems pretty insane at a station as big as DFW is for NK. I would imagine almost certainly they would have another aircraft to tail swap that flight on to... That said, most airlines will run a flight super late rather than cancel it and strand the PAX. As long as the crew is legal, send it.

Freakyrat is referencing their own situation that happened in ATL - not anything to do with this actual situation in DFW.

freakyrat wrote:

I figured that but these 2 rookie gate agents didn't know what to do and drug this out for 9 hrs when they didn't have to.

You do understand that gate agents don't have the authority to cancel flights right? Whether rookie or not, they have absolutely zero control over the length of a MX delay and as long as the flight is still scheduled to leave, they have to continue their process of telling folks the flight is going to operate, that is literally their job.

FlyingElvii wrote:

I can point to when the bus crowds started travelling by air "In MY opinion".
Around 1997-98 when I began to see plastic trash bags full of clothes coming down the belt as checked baggage (Pro Air).

That was something you didn't even see on PeoplExpress. Almost all travellers had a modicum of class and decorum, until around the mid-90's

It really has nothing to do with the crowd at this point, I've seen business travelers in the past couple months have complete meltdowns over IRROPs. Right now flying just isn't a great experience.

alasizon wrote:

KDAL wrote:

So, a few things to unpack here... 9 hours seems pretty insane at a station as big as DFW is for NK. I would imagine almost certainly they would have another aircraft to tail swap that flight on to... That said, most airlines will run a flight super late rather than cancel it and strand the PAX. As long as the crew is legal, send it.

Freakyrat is referencing their own situation that happened in ATL - not anything to do with this actual situation in DFW.

freakyrat wrote:

I figured that but these 2 rookie gate agents didn't know what to do and drug this out for 9 hrs when they didn't have to.

You do understand that gate agents don't have the authority to cancel flights right? Whether rookie or not, they have absolutely zero control over the length of a MX delay and as long as the flight is still scheduled to leave, they have to continue their process of telling folks the flight is going to operate, that is literally their job.

In my case the DFW station manager came in at 1 in the morning and told everyne the flight is cancelled.

I do not know what caused the current incident at DFW but it could have been handled better. I once watched a Lady Redcoat for United at OHare brilliantly handle a disgruntled young female passenger on a delayed flight that was waiting for a Captain and she let the girl gripe and moan and then calmly explained the situation and told the girl to repoard the aircraft that the Captain had just got to the airport and was on his way to the gate. Chicago had heavy rains that morning thsat flooded the OHare access roads.

freakyrat wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

This airplane was taxiied over to domestic from the International Terminal by the mechanics. Maybe something they did caused the problem. Anyway the A320 has onboard diagnostics and pulling the tape they new exactly where the problem was. If the flight was going to take a long delay and parts had to be flown in they should have made the decision to cancel instead of keeping the passengers in the airport for NINE hours. I'm sorry but you were not there. I just watched the whole situation play out and watched the police keep order. The Station Manager did cancel the flight.

More likely that the station manager called Ops, then the Duty Manager conferenced with the Maint Control, Dispatch, and scheduling leads, then woke a senior exec up who made the actual call to xcl.

Ask me how I know this....

I figured that but these 2 rookie gate agents didn't know what to do and drug this out for 9 hrs when they didn't have to.

The gate agents literally had zero control regarding the flight departing or cancelling. Absolutely ZERO.

Sancho99504 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Sancho99504 wrote:

WN has fare sales all the time with fares as low as $39 yet don't have the problems that NK gets. G4 and F9 don't seem to have this problem either.

You don't need a PhD in Psychology nor an MBA in Marketing to see the dynamics of anger in play:

WN: free carry-on, two free checked bags

NK: carry-on $50 at booking, $89 at gate; 1st checked bag $42 at booking, $89 at counter; 2nd checked bag $67 at booking, $89 at counter

Ever see a Spirit customer show up at the gate with an oversized 'carry-on' and just get frantic when they hear the fee to go check the bag, and recognize they're going to miss their flight when they have to go back to the counter (Spirit doesn't seem to have facilities to take payment at the gate) and then get back through security? It's not pretty.

If Spirit only made their fees very clear during the booking process and then again during online check-in, people wouldn't be shocked or surprised. Oh wait, Spirit does. It's not Spirits fault that people can't read or lack comprehension of what they read. I've booked and flown NK multiple times and it annoyed me how many pop-ups and pages telling me to act now or pay heftier prices at the airport for everything they charge for. It's like people who try to claim that they accidentally bought basic economy on another carrier......

Actually I would point out that spirit does a very good job of this but its the expedias of the world that dont and I would venture the passengers who freak out like the ones that complain come disproportionately from those that book from a third party

bourbon wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

More likely that the station manager called Ops, then the Duty Manager conferenced with the Maint Control, Dispatch, and scheduling leads, then woke a senior exec up who made the actual call to xcl.

Ask me how I know this....

I figured that but these 2 rookie gate agents didn't know what to do and drug this out for 9 hrs when they didn't have to.

The gate agents literally had zero control regarding the flight departing or cancelling. Absolutely ZERO.

Yes but leaving people on the hook for 9hrs and having to call the airport police out to maintain order reflects bad on the operation. One of these agents almost got punched out by a big football like player that came yelled at him in his face. As it was the station manager after consulting with whoever he did cancelled the flight. If they would have cancelled the flight earlier it would have given some of us the time to get on a United flight to ORD leaving from a close by gate. My Coworker who was flying on a redeye to Boston saw the whole mess.

Hard to say for sure, without seeing the whole confrontation, but if she swung on him first, she should be banned from flying for life. It's no different than assaulting a flight attendant onboard. Unfortunately, the most of the younger generation has not respect any more and think that they are entitled to everything. The schools are they same way as well. Our local school district can't even keep teachers because of it. We are over 300 teachers short because they keep quitting.
I understand getting ticked off at delays and things, because I would too, but I'm not going to swing on someone over it.

ChrisPBacon wrote:

santi319 wrote:

They literally do.

So what you are saying is that you don't know how ground handling bids work. When an RFP is requested, it could be one station or a bundle of stations. I was very involved in the process when Sprit outsourced everything but FLL. We were a successful bidder because we were able to handle the scale, not because we were cheapest. There were other bidders who could undercut us on price, but they didn't have the structure to ensure they had the GSE needed, ability to keep it running, and more specifically, ensure a smooth overnight transition. In our case, we agree to a "cost plus" agreement where Spirit knew the exact markup for labor, and we agreed on a specific number of labor hours per month. If we were able to use less labor, it added to our profit margin. If we needed more labor (i.e. WX events, diversions, etc) it had to be agreed to be the local NK managers in advance, or we wouldn't get paid for it. Yes there is tremendous pressure to provide service at an agreed to cost, but there are plenty of factors that lead to a decision to award a ground handling contract. Not just being the lowest bidder.

This is the part of the business model that I don't understand. If NK is paying labor plus a markup, why would it not be cheaper for them to just insource and not have to pay the markup? I could understand outsourcing for a small station where staff can be leveraged across several airlines but for a large station like LAS or MCO, where handlers have a workforce exclusively for NK, I don't see how outsourcing ground handling and paying the handlers profit margin saves money.

usflyer msp wrote:

ChrisPBacon wrote:

santi319 wrote:

They literally do.

So what you are saying is that you don't know how ground handling bids work. When an RFP is requested, it could be one station or a bundle of stations. I was very involved in the process when Sprit outsourced everything but FLL. We were a successful bidder because we were able to handle the scale, not because we were cheapest. There were other bidders who could undercut us on price, but they didn't have the structure to ensure they had the GSE needed, ability to keep it running, and more specifically, ensure a smooth overnight transition. In our case, we agree to a "cost plus" agreement where Spirit knew the exact markup for labor, and we agreed on a specific number of labor hours per month. If we were able to use less labor, it added to our profit margin. If we needed more labor (i.e. WX events, diversions, etc) it had to be agreed to be the local NK managers in advance, or we wouldn't get paid for it. Yes there is tremendous pressure to provide service at an agreed to cost, but there are plenty of factors that lead to a decision to award a ground handling contract. Not just being the lowest bidder.

This is the part of the business model that I don't understand. If NK is paying labor plus a markup, why would it not be cheaper for them to just insource and not have to pay the markup? I could understand outsourcing for a small station where staff can be leveraged across several airlines but for a large station like LAS or MCO, where handlers have a workforce exclusively for NK, I don't see how outsourcing ground handling and paying the handlers profit margin saves money.

Because as an airline you don’t need to pay for fully burdened employees (those with benefits and health insurance). People always forget that it’s not just about the hourly rate but all the other HR stuff that comes with it. Benefits, workers comp, etc etc etc.

I've always wondered.... Why on earth does someone even want to work as an outsourced Spirit agent? You are making little money with zero benefits. I really wonder why anyone would subject themselves to the constant abuse that must come from representing Spirit with nothing to show in return.

airportugal310 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

ChrisPBacon wrote:

So what you are saying is that you don't know how ground handling bids work. When an RFP is requested, it could be one station or a bundle of stations. I was very involved in the process when Sprit outsourced everything but FLL. We were a successful bidder because we were able to handle the scale, not because we were cheapest. There were other bidders who could undercut us on price, but they didn't have the structure to ensure they had the GSE needed, ability to keep it running, and more specifically, ensure a smooth overnight transition. In our case, we agree to a "cost plus" agreement where Spirit knew the exact markup for labor, and we agreed on a specific number of labor hours per month. If we were able to use less labor, it added to our profit margin. If we needed more labor (i.e. WX events, diversions, etc) it had to be agreed to be the local NK managers in advance, or we wouldn't get paid for it. Yes there is tremendous pressure to provide service at an agreed to cost, but there are plenty of factors that lead to a decision to award a ground handling contract. Not just being the lowest bidder.

This is the part of the business model that I don't understand. If NK is paying labor plus a markup, why would it not be cheaper for them to just insource and not have to pay the markup? I could understand outsourcing for a small station where staff can be leveraged across several airlines but for a large station like LAS or MCO, where handlers have a workforce exclusively for NK, I don't see how outsourcing ground handling and paying the handlers profit margin saves money.

Because as an airline you don’t need to pay for fully burdened employees (those with benefits and health insurance). People always forget that it’s not just about the hourly rate but all the other HR stuff that comes with it. Benefits, workers comp, etc etc etc.

IDK, those third party handlers offer those benefits so NK is paying for those in it's agreed upon rate, otherwise the third party would not make any money.

freakyrat wrote:

bourbon wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

I figured that but these 2 rookie gate agents didn't know what to do and drug this out for 9 hrs when they didn't have to.

The gate agents literally had zero control regarding the flight departing or cancelling. Absolutely ZERO.

Yes but leaving people on the hook for 9hrs and having to call the airport police out to maintain order reflects bad on the operation. One of these agents almost got punched out by a big football like player that came yelled at him in his face. As it was the station manager after consulting with whoever he did cancelled the flight. If they would have cancelled the flight earlier it would have given some of us the time to get on a United flight to ORD leaving from a close by gate. My Coworker who was flying on a redeye to Boston saw the whole mess.

Wait - NK flies DFW-BOS red-eyes? Holy crap that sounds horrible!

departedflights wrote:

I've always wondered.... Why on earth does someone even want to work as an outsourced Spirit agent? You are making little money with zero benefits. I really wonder why anyone would subject themselves to the constant abuse that must come from representing Spirit with nothing to show in return.

Because some people just want a paycheck.

freakyrat wrote:

[As it was the station manager after consulting with whoever he did cancelled the flight. If they would have cancelled the flight earlier it would have given some of us the time to get on a United flight to ORD leaving from a close by gate. My Coworker who was flying on a redeye to Boston saw the whole mess.

There are no red eyes from Dallas to Boston and just because you keep saying it, doesn’t make it any more true. As multiple people have pointed out to you, and substantiated with reference to CFR’s, the station manager does not have the authority to cancel flights or make input as to whether a flight should be cancelled.