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miguel0881
Topic Author
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:52 am

LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:49 am

Interesting experience on LH 433 yesterday with a very low level go around on the A343. It seemed to me we were no more than 50 feet off the ground when it was initiated. Pilot said wind shear and we landed on the same runway about 15 mins later. Is that common at FRA? I would be interested to know how low we got, as Flightaware isn’t exactly reliable on that (although it must have been pretty low, as it recorded the original landing attempt as an “arrival”in the altitude track).

Anyway, have experienced a number of go arounds over the years, but never that low in such a big plane in seemingly good weather.
 
steman
Posts: 1701
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:55 pm

Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:24 am

According to Flightradar24 you dropped till 167 Meters and then climbed again but I don´t know how accurate that is.
That´s about 550 feet.
 
miguel0881
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Posts: 149
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:31 am

Thanks. It seemed much lower, and since Flightaware records similar altitudes even after landing, I suppose there’s no real way to know.
 
B777LRF
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:41 am

FRA is not particularly prone to wind shear, but it can happen nearly everywhere. A go-around from 50ft, whilst low, is not that unusual either - technically speaking you may perform a go-around after touch down until the point the thrust reversers have been engaged.
 
LH779
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:26 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYcxhQYSzRo

Your flight is at 20 minutes 20 seconds :D

edit: There's also a similar go around of a 748 at 2:18:40
 
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hongkongflyer
Posts: 978
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:54 am

LH779 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYcxhQYSzRo

Your flight is at 20 minutes 20 seconds :D

edit: There's also a similar go around of a 748 at 2:18:40


The 748 should have been touched down second before it begin the climb again
 
miguel0881
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Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:52 am

Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:41 am

LH779 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYcxhQYSzRo

Your flight is at 20 minutes 20 seconds :D

edit: There's also a similar go around of a 748 at 2:18:40


Thank you! It got pretty low, less than 50 feet I would say looking at it now. Almost wheels on ground.
 
PhilipBass
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:30 pm

Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:10 am

B777LRF wrote:
FRA is not particularly prone to wind shear

I don't remember it being windy this weekend so doubt it is that.
 
StTim
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Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:18 am

I have had a go around initiated just before touch down - resulting in the wheels touching the runway before the power was sufficient for a climb to start. 50ft isn't really that uncommon.
 
sixfootscream
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:24 am

PhilipBass wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
FRA is not particularly prone to wind shear

I don't remember it being windy this weekend so doubt it is that.


I was just at runway 25R. The wind has picked up quite a bit but nothing no pilot couldn't handle.
 
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TOGA10
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:35 am

It could be a number of reasons, most common one: They floated and were in danger of missing the touchdown zone. Only safe option is to do a go around (or balked landing) and try again! Early flare, change in wind, mishandling of thrust levers, a combination of all these, who knows.
Last edited by TOGA10 on Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
DH106
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:32 pm

Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:35 am

Not sure about 'wind shear' - looks like it floated for quite a while so pilots decided to go around.
 
miguel0881
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Posts: 149
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:57 am

DH106 wrote:
Not sure about 'wind shear' - looks like it floated for quite a while so pilots decided to go around.


They definitely said wind shear, but it didn’t seem right which is why I was curious. I think it caught the flight attendants off guard, because they made an immediate announcements with surprise in the voice indicating they were sure the captain would explain what happened soon. And then the only explanation was wind shear, canceled approach, rejoining the pattern to land back on Runway 25. So yeah, who knows.
 
2eng2efficient
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:30 pm

Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:32 am

Given how it floated, a long landing (i.e. missing touchdown zone) seems to be the most logical explanation.
 
krisyyz
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:09 pm

Doesn't' seem too worrying at all. There are a lot of vids from AMS, LHR or NRT where aircraft go around after the main gear has already made contact but bounced significantly due to the winds.

KrisYYZ
 
Ronaldo747
Posts: 446
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:32 pm

Around FRA there is slow mountain range (Taunus) which could have a little bit of thermal lift impact but nothing special or bad.
 
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zeke
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:43 pm

LH779 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYcxhQYSzRo

Your flight is at 20 minutes 20 seconds :D

edit: There's also a similar go around of a 748 at 2:18:40


The videos look to me like positive shear, when there is a gust of wind down the runway in the flare that increases the aircraft indicated speed causing it to float.
 
DH106
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:32 pm

Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:46 pm

Ronaldo747 wrote:
Around FRA there is slow mountain range (Taunus) which could have a little bit of thermal lift impact but nothing special or bad.


Just about all of the mountain ranges I know are 'slow' !!
Continental drift aint known for braking any speed limits :lol: :mrgreen:
Could be 'low' perhaps?
 
OldB747Driver
Posts: 179
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Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:12 pm

FWIW:
I had a similar thing occur at Jackson Hole, WY (no, not the 747). Following a Learjet that reported shear after (from our viewpoint) having flown the entire length of the runway at very low altitude before pulling up into a "steep-ish" climb, the tower relayed a reported 15 knot loss. Duly noted, I increased speed about 10 knots to compensate but when we arrived over the runway, the shear turned out to be a 15 knot GAIN and we too, floated in a high drag configuration for a "significant" portion of the runway (CYA).

If I had to place my bets, they had a few extra knots of speed and a little too much float as has been hinted at by previous posts. Good judgement and execution on behalf of the crew as go-arounds (especially after long flights/long days) can be a difficult decision to make after having done almost everything else correctly...
 
miguel0881
Topic Author
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:52 am

Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:39 pm

OldB747Driver wrote:
FWIW:
I had a similar thing occur at Jackson Hole, WY (no, not the 747). Following a Learjet that reported shear after (from our viewpoint) having flown the entire length of the runway at very low altitude before pulling up into a "steep-ish" climb, the tower relayed a reported 15 knot loss. Duly noted, I increased speed about 10 knots to compensate but when we arrived over the runway, the shear turned out to be a 15 knot GAIN and we too, floated in a high drag configuration for a "significant" portion of the runway (CYA).

If I had to place my bets, they had a few extra knots of speed and a little too much float as has been hinted at by previous posts. Good judgement and execution on behalf of the crew as go-arounds (especially after long flights/long days) can be a difficult decision to make after having done almost everything else correctly...


Very interesting, thanks for sharing. The automation of modern aviation is no substitute for aerodynamics and sound human judgment!
 
Ronaldo747
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: LH A343 Low Level Go Around FRA

Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:47 pm

DH106 wrote:
Ronaldo747 wrote:
Around FRA there is slow mountain range (Taunus) which could have a little bit of thermal lift impact but nothing special or bad.


Just about all of the mountain ranges I know are 'slow' !!
Continental drift aint known for braking any speed limits :lol: :mrgreen:
Could be 'low' perhaps?


Yes, of course. :mrgreen: :banghead:

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