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Continental767
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:44 pm

Well that came out of nowhere. Good news for Boom, having another commitment from a major carrier like AA really adds legitimacy to their program. Interested to see how this actually pans out.
 
vtnyc
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:18 pm

I'm still waiting for this.. was reading about it in the the Scientific American in the 80's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_X-30
 
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william
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:29 pm

We have seen these concepts come and ago but a non refundable deposit. Either the deposit is small or a tax write off. Or Boom........is..........(gasp).........for real.

"American Airlines and Boom Supersonic today announced the airline’s agreement to purchase up to 20 Overture aircraft, with an option for an additional 40. American has paid a non-refundable deposit on the initial 20 aircraft. Overture is expected to carry passengers at twice the speed of today’s fastest commercial aircraft."
Last edited by william on Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
IFlyVeryLittle
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:30 pm

Please explain to me what "an order" for something like this entails. A downpayment with which Boom can use in development? A mere promise to buy if there is something to buy that meets the specs originally agreed upon? Is it right to call something like this a commitment?
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:56 pm

When is the first prototype supposed to be ready?
 
IFLYUA767
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:00 pm

LAX-HNL was mentioned in the press release as a possible route but I don’t see that as a possibility. These birds will probably only do LHR runs from JFK and MIA. Just my opinion.
 
AMALH747430
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:08 pm

***GASP*** Another major US carrier is interested in the future of commercial aviation and what can be accomplished! I know most of airliners.net would rather see the “737 Super Max,” the “A320 Newer New Engine Option,” or the “777 XPlus” but I think it’s good that airlines are willing to see where this goes. If it never flies, they haven’t lost anything. If it does, they’re first in line for something new. Commercial aircraft innovation has somewhat stagnated (you’ve got Boeing continuing to re-warm a 1960s regional jet to the point that they built something unsafe in the name of backwards compatibility) so I’m glad to see this. I’m not going to be surprised if this never comes to fruition, but who knows where the research may lead. Good on AA and UA in my opinion!
 
CX747
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:10 pm

Until it is on the ramp, I will withhold my excitement. With that said, Northrop Grumman has partnered with Boom to militarize the overture for a number of mission sets...From a cargo/medevac standpoint, it offers some very tantalizing results.
 
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ER757
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:20 pm

IFLYUA767 wrote:
LAX-HNL was mentioned in the press release as a possible route but I don’t see that as a possibility. These birds will probably only do LHR runs from JFK and MIA. Just my opinion.

They don't need 20 of them for those routes, so they must have other routes in mind.
 
af773atmsp
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:20 pm

Didn't several airlines have commitments to the Boeing 2707 before it was cancelled, and a few airlines had commitments to Concorde but then backed out?

I won't get my hopes up until there's an Overture in AA colors.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:22 pm

It will be awhile before Boom can deliver on these orders. Then it will take some time to establish whether they have the reliability and return on investment needed for a commercial airliner. But AA and UA are including them as a possibility in their plans for the future. So I guess we'll see what happens.
 
zuckie13
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:30 pm

Their current path is for a first flight in 2026. Figure a few years of testing before the would be delivering to customers, so probably talking around 2030 before an airline is flying it.
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:34 pm

AA really does not have the cash to be throwing away on non refundable deposits. They need to get their house in order, pay down debt and improve their onboard product first. AA is literally ranked dead last in the USA. I don't think AA will survive to even be around when these start deliveries.
 
many321
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:03 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
***GASP*** Another major US carrier is interested in the future of commercial aviation and what can be accomplished! I know most of airliners.net would rather see the “737 Super Max,” the “A320 Newer New Engine Option,” or the “777 XPlus” but I think it’s good that airlines are willing to see where this goes. If it never flies, they haven’t lost anything. If it does, they’re first in line for something new. Commercial aircraft innovation has somewhat stagnated (you’ve got Boeing continuing to re-warm a 1960s regional jet to the point that they built something unsafe in the name of backwards compatibility) so I’m glad to see this. I’m not going to be surprised if this never comes to fruition, but who knows where the research may lead. Good on AA and UA in my opinion!


You read my mind. I agree with every point you mention. Let's see what happens.
 
texl1649
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:06 pm

This is great. Maybe the real ‘exception to the rule’ about startups becoming vapor ware over time and also the rigors of FAA certification in the 2020’s?

Overture is being designed to carry 65 to 80 passengers at Mach 1.7 over water — or twice the speed of today’s fastest commercial aircraft — with a range of 4,250 nautical miles. Optimized for speed, safety and sustainability, Overture is also being designed to fly more than 600 routes around the world in as little as half the time. Flying from Miami to London in just under five hours and Los Angeles to Honolulu in three hours are among the many possibilities.

“We are proud to share our vision of a more connected and sustainable world with American Airlines,” said Blake Scholl, Founder and CEO of Boom. “We believe Overture can help American deepen its competitive advantage on network, loyalty and overall airline preference through the paradigm-changing benefits of cutting travel times in half.”


Clearly, AA and others see this as a premium product well suited for transatlantic (and to HI from CONUS). I see United and JAL as other key customers. Still, there remain big issues;

My take on American’s supersonic jet order
For context, American is the second major US airline to place an “order” for this jet, as United Airlines did the same in mid-2021. I keep putting “order” in quotes because this jet is far from becoming a reality, so for the time being I largely view this as mutually beneficial PR:

Boom Technology gets the support of the world’s biggest airline, which adds credibility to what the company is working on
American Airlines looks like a cutting edge company that’s investing in the future of air travel, as it sounds spiffy to have supersonic jets on order
While it’s stated that American has made a deposit on these planes, my guess is that the airline could easily back out of this order, since presumably this is conditional upon certain performance specs that are far from a sure thing at this point.

Boom has raised a lot of money from investors, so a lot of people have faith in the concept. I don’t want to be a wet blanket, because admittedly over time we see huge advancements in technology, and it’s always easy to be skeptical.

At the same time, I just have a hard time seeing this become a reality. I just don’t think this reflects the direction the industry is headed, and it seems like there are lots of hurdles to overcome. For that matter, Boom still hasn’t announced plans for engines that would be capable of powering this plane. I’d love to see the Boom Overture fly one day, so I hope to be proven wrong.


https://onemileatatime.com/news/america ... sonic-jet/

So, yes, I see Safran as a partner, but what (4) engines would this aircraft use, circa 2029? Where/who/what will provide these efficient, quiet, super-cruising turbofans in the next few years?

https://samchui.com/2022/07/19/farnboro ... vuxpC9OmfA

https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/1549326758897504257

:stirthepot:
 
BarrenLucidity
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:06 pm

Probably helpful to note that the projected range is 4200 nmi so these would not be used for transpacific.
 
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NWAROOSTER
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:10 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
AA really does not have the cash to be throwing away on non refundable deposits. They need to get their house in order, pay down debt and improve their onboard product first. AA is literally ranked dead last in the USA. I don't think AA will survive to even be around when these start deliveries.


You mean if they start delivery. This is a premiun aircraft with about an 80 passenger capacity. Who isgoing to subsidize this aircraft like the Concorde was? :old:
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:39 pm

BarrenLucidity wrote:
Probably helpful to note that the projected range is 4200 nmi so these would not be used for transpacific.



Good point! Unless you consider LAXHNL "transpacific".


Just curious if there are any projected CASM for this airplane yet? How will it compare to aircraft such as the 777/789? I tried the find the CASM on the Concorde but couldn't find it.
 
aa1818
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:53 pm

United had a rendering in their colour scheme- odd that AA didn't.

Cheers,
AA1818
 
IADCA
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:18 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
AA really does not have the cash to be throwing away on non refundable deposits. They need to get their house in order, pay down debt and improve their onboard product first. AA is literally ranked dead last in the USA. I don't think AA will survive to even be around when these start deliveries.


That's a pretty strong reaction without knowing the amount of the deposit. Yes, AA, like most of the debt-addicted American economy, may have other uses for cash. But given the size of the company and the way the press release practically trumpets the deposit - presumably as a boost to Boom - I'm skeptical that it's a huge outlay. I'm sure some Wall Street type will ask them on an earnings call, but they've seriously got much bigger fish to fry almost regardless of the amount.
 
behramjee
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:22 pm

ER757 wrote:
IFLYUA767 wrote:
LAX-HNL was mentioned in the press release as a possible route but I don’t see that as a possibility. These birds will probably only do LHR runs from JFK and MIA. Just my opinion.

They don't need 20 of them for those routes, so they must have other routes in mind.


AA will 100% use them on multiple daily JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO too. Other routes that come to mind are:

MIA-GRU
MIA-LHR
JFK-CDG
JFK-LHR
JFK-SEA
JFK-DFW
JFK-MIA
 
jbs2886
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:24 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
***GASP*** Another major US carrier is interested in the future of commercial aviation and what can be accomplished! I know most of airliners.net would rather see the “737 Super Max,” the “A320 Newer New Engine Option,” or the “777 XPlus” but I think it’s good that airlines are willing to see where this goes. If it never flies, they haven’t lost anything. If it does, they’re first in line for something new. Commercial aircraft innovation has somewhat stagnated (you’ve got Boeing continuing to re-warm a 1960s regional jet to the point that they built something unsafe in the name of backwards compatibility) so I’m glad to see this. I’m not going to be surprised if this never comes to fruition, but who knows where the research may lead. Good on AA and UA in my opinion!


Its true. I give a lot of credit to UA and now AA for Boom and the eVTOL orders. In sharp contrast, DL is completely silent on this front. If this all comes to fruition, sure DL can throw more cash and get them fast, but investing in the future now is something to applaud.
 
AirnerdTX
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:25 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
When is the first prototype supposed to be ready?

I'd assume at some point after an engine has been chosen.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:30 pm

behramjee wrote:

AA will 100% use them on multiple daily JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO too. Other routes that come to mind are:

MIA-GRU
MIA-LHR
JFK-CDG
JFK-LHR
JFK-SEA
JFK-DFW
JFK-MIA


Unless US law changes, most of those routes can't happen supersonic.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/c ... ion-91.817

§ 91.817 Civil aircraft sonic boom.

(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft in the United States at a true flight Mach number greater than 1 except in compliance with conditions and limitations in an authorization to exceed Mach 1 issued to the operator in accordance with § 91.818.

(b) In addition, no person may operate a civil aircraft for which the maximum operating limit speed MM0 exceeds a Mach number of 1, to or from an airport in the United States, unless -

(1) Information available to the flight crew includes flight limitations that ensure that flights entering or leaving the United States will not cause a sonic boom to reach the surface within the United States; and

(2) The operator complies with the flight limitations prescribed in paragraph (b)(1) of this section or complies with conditions and limitations in an authorization to exceed Mach 1 issued in accordance with § 91.818.
 
speedbird52
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:37 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
behramjee wrote:

AA will 100% use them on multiple daily JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO too. Other routes that come to mind are:

MIA-GRU
MIA-LHR
JFK-CDG
JFK-LHR
JFK-SEA
JFK-DFW
JFK-MIA


Unless US law changes, most of those routes can't happen supersonic.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/c ... ion-91.817

§ 91.817 Civil aircraft sonic boom.

(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft in the United States at a true flight Mach number greater than 1 except in compliance with conditions and limitations in an authorization to exceed Mach 1 issued to the operator in accordance with § 91.818.

(b) In addition, no person may operate a civil aircraft for which the maximum operating limit speed MM0 exceeds a Mach number of 1, to or from an airport in the United States, unless -

(1) Information available to the flight crew includes flight limitations that ensure that flights entering or leaving the United States will not cause a sonic boom to reach the surface within the United States; and

(2) The operator complies with the flight limitations prescribed in paragraph (b)(1) of this section or complies with conditions and limitations in an authorization to exceed Mach 1 issued in accordance with § 91.818.

I think the hope is that Overture will produce a quieter boom that is more acceptable to the public than Concorde's
 
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scbriml
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:38 pm

Supersonic flying for the rich elite in a World ravaged by climate change. That's going to be a really good look for AA and UA.

Not that I think there's any chance of this happening
 
UA735WL
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:41 pm

This is really cool. I would never invest a cent in it, but it's cool. I'll believe it when I see it on the ramp. Remember how many orders Concorde had for airlines that ended up never touching it?
 
by738
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:42 pm

Excellent. Must be a lot more to this than the a.netters think. I expect eg BA to be next.
 
ILS28ORD
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:42 pm

This is a publicity stunt. And for AA who is in the worst financial state of any of the big US airlines to put a non-refundable deposit is... insane. As stated above, either its a small deposit or they may have well just lit that money on fire.
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:01 pm

ILS28ORD wrote:
This is a publicity stunt. And for AA who is in the worst financial state of any of the big US airlines to put a non-refundable deposit is... insane. As stated above, either its a small deposit or they may have well just lit that money on fire.



Exactly sir. If AA was the money making machine DL was, sure go ahead a take a risk. But given AA's financial situations and billions in debt payments due in the next 12-24 months AA needs to hold onto every cent and avoid risky moves.
 
hsuthe19
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:11 pm

Or, maybe there is smoke to this fire regarding the Boom Aircraft? When it was just United that placed an order I figured it wasn’t much. Now that AA has also joined in….Then it becomes a different story.
 
IFlyVeryLittle
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:29 pm

Story doesnt say how much the deposit is, though it does indicate it's non-refundable. A publicly traded company can't just take a flyer and decide to do something truly stupid. there must be some kind of risk/reward thing here, even if it means the nation's media stops talking about crappy coach seats, cancelled flights etc for a few days
 
LightningZ71
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:38 pm

My take on the environmental impact of the Boom Overture aircraft:

The existence of a supersonic transport between big cities may be attractive enough for the "super rich" to be willing to fly on them instead of using their own private aircraft. If a single overture flight can prevent four flights of traditional private jets, I suspect that it may be a net savings in emissions of pollutants and a net reduction in the consumption of petroleum products. I get that some of the "elite" may not wish to "rub elbows" with the unwashed masses, but, given the price these tickets will likely command, they may see it as more of a networking event or a curious novelty.

The pessimist in me thinks that it won't be "Exclusive" enough for the rich to care. It won't save enough time to make up for having to travel to one of the few airports that it will operate from, to clear TSA/Security, to actually get into the air, to get far enough away from the coast for the supersonic segment to save enough time to make the expense worth it. It'll just be what I expect it to be, an expensive novelty that won't ever recover it's investment cost and will be a net environmental negative.
 
IFLYUA767
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:39 pm

Here is the response from the Allied Pilots Association. They think it’s a publicity stunt.

https://www.alliedpilots.org/News/ID/10 ... Priorities
 
MIflyer12
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:39 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
ILS28ORD wrote:
This is a publicity stunt. And for AA who is in the worst financial state of any of the big US airlines to put a non-refundable deposit is... insane. As stated above, either its a small deposit or they may have well just lit that money on fire.



Exactly sir. If AA was the money making machine DL was, sure go ahead a take a risk. But given AA's financial situations and billions in debt payments due in the next 12-24 months AA needs to hold onto every cent and avoid risky moves.


Well, I'll wait for the Boom or AA financial statement that declares the size of this nonrefundable deposit before I judge to be a real commitment on the part of AA.

It would serve to remind people not familiar with U.S. law that the law isn't changed by popular will (we don't have a Parliamentary system that reflects the will of the majority), it can be blocked by 41 grumpy gusses (out of 100) in the U.S. Senate. If the law isn't changed, we won't have supersonic flights over land. Simple as that.
 
Revo1059
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:51 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
ILS28ORD wrote:
This is a publicity stunt. And for AA who is in the worst financial state of any of the big US airlines to put a non-refundable deposit is... insane. As stated above, either its a small deposit or they may have well just lit that money on fire.



Exactly sir. If AA was the money making machine DL was, sure go ahead a take a risk. But given AA's financial situations and billions in debt payments due in the next 12-24 months AA needs to hold onto every cent and avoid risky moves.


Well, I'll wait for the Boom or AA financial statement that declares the size of this nonrefundable deposit before I judge to be a real commitment on the part of AA.

It would serve to remind people not familiar with U.S. law that the law isn't changed by popular will (we don't have a Parliamentary system that reflects the will of the majority), it can be blocked by 41 grumpy gusses (out of 100) in the U.S. Senate. If the law isn't changed, we won't have supersonic flights over land. Simple as that.


If they can prove the new design is quiet(er) then I think lawmakers could be convinced.
 
Revo1059
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:58 pm

Those complaining about the environmental impact...

Do you know what the fuel efficiency is on it already? If so let me know. Also they are designing the engines to run on 100% sustainable fuel. So before we get out the pitchforks (and base what we think of SS flight costs because of Concorde) lets see what the final product is (if it makes it).
 
MrNuke
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:00 pm

BarrenLucidity wrote:
Probably helpful to note that the projected range is 4200 nmi so these would not be used for transpacific.

It still could be with a fuel stop in ANC or HNL depending on the destination. You obviously loose some of the speed advantage in doing so, but these are potential routes Boom has been advertising time wise from the start.
speedbird52 wrote:
I think the hope is that Overture will produce a quieter boom that is more acceptable to the public than Concorde's

Scholl's approach publicly and that of Boom in general doesn't really back that up.
the Overture remains point-designed for unrestricted operations over water. “The strategy remains the same,” says Scholl. “We’re focused on transoceanic routes where we can offer a big speedup for as little cost as possible with proven technology and the shortest possible development timeline.”

Scholl concedes that low-boom technology has a future. “[But it will be] a long time before anyone knows how quiet is quiet enough,” he says. “The last thing you want to do is make a big investment in it, and then miss it by a decibel and then all is for naught. You also give up efficiency for quiet. So we are still more convinced than ever that there’s a meaningful market for transoceanic [travel] where the most important thing is efficiency and low-boom doesn’t really help you.”

https://boomsupersonic.com/news/post/bo ... monstrator
 
ORDfan
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:08 pm

It's clear that the marketing departments at AA and UA are now firmly run by the 'look-at-me' Instagram generation. This is little more than clickbait, with AA probably viewing the deposit as a marketing expense.

No engine manufacturer, yet?! So the procurement team has no clue what CO2 emissions or SFC will be? It's a shame I'll have to wait for this nothing-burger to materialize before coming back on here and saying, I told you so....
 
jfk777
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:12 pm

This plane needs a stop to Tokyo or Sydney, so what is the point of the Supersonic plane when its one-stop vs. nonstop. Can't even do DFW to LHR, the flagship route to LHR. Could do Miami to Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires but is there a market there for such a flight. Sure its going to do many east coast and ORD to Europe, the market for this is limited and niche in nature.

JFK to LHR for sure, but how many people would do CLT to LHR ? This would probably be a daytime flight to LHR from any east coast gateway or hub. When are we going to get a supersonic with 787-9 or A350-1000 like range ? That is when this would be a breakthrough.
 
BarrenLucidity
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:17 pm

jfk777 wrote:
This plane needs a stop to Tokyo or Sydney, so what is the point of the Supersonic plane when its one-stop vs. nonstop. Can't even do DFW to LHR, the flagship route to LHR. Could do Miami to Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires but is there a market there for such a flight. Sure its going to do many east coast and ORD to Europe, the market for this is limited and niche in nature.

JFK to LHR for sure, but how many people would do CLT to LHR ? This would probably be a daytime flight to LHR from any east coast gateway or hub. When are we going to get a supersonic with 787-9 or A350-1000 like range ? That is when this would be a breakthrough.


Don't discount the second largest financial hub in the US. AA CLT LHR flights are always full in J.
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:29 pm

BarrenLucidity wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
This plane needs a stop to Tokyo or Sydney, so what is the point of the Supersonic plane when its one-stop vs. nonstop. Can't even do DFW to LHR, the flagship route to LHR. Could do Miami to Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires but is there a market there for such a flight. Sure its going to do many east coast and ORD to Europe, the market for this is limited and niche in nature.

JFK to LHR for sure, but how many people would do CLT to LHR ? This would probably be a daytime flight to LHR from any east coast gateway or hub. When are we going to get a supersonic with 787-9 or A350-1000 like range ? That is when this would be a breakthrough.


Don't discount the second largest financial hub in the US. AA CLT LHR flights are always full in J.

You can depart LHR at 9am and be in the B of A offices at CLT by 9am EST
 
LH982
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:48 pm

I'd also like to see the maintenance regime and costs.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:49 pm

jfk777 wrote:
This plane needs a stop to Tokyo or Sydney, so what is the point of the Supersonic plane when its one-stop vs. nonstop. Can't even do DFW to LHR, the flagship route to LHR. Could do Miami to Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires but is there a market there for such a flight. Sure its going to do many east coast and ORD to Europe, the market for this is limited and niche in nature.

JFK to LHR for sure, but how many people would do CLT to LHR ? This would probably be a daytime flight to LHR from any east coast gateway or hub. When are we going to get a supersonic with 787-9 or A350-1000 like range ? That is when this would be a breakthrough.


GCMap link for LAX to Tokyo and Sydney

LAX-NRT = 4737nm = 9.8 hours at 480 kn cruise
LAX-HNL-NRT = 5539nm = 6.5 hours at 960 kn cruise (includes 45 minute refueling stop)
- 3.3 hours savings

LAX-SYD = 6507nm = 13.6 hours at 480 kn cruise
LAX-HNL-SYD = 6623nm = 7.6 hours at 960 kn cruise (includes 45 minute refueling stop)
- 6 hours savings

DFW-LHR is at the edge of range, but assuming a portion of the flight operated at Mach 0.95 gives them better fuel burn to gain some margin:

GCMap link with JFK as a proxy waypoint to the coast to increase overwater ratio

DFW - LHR = 4128nm = 8.6 hours at 480 kn cruise
DFW - LHR = 1250nm to coast + 3000nm over water = 5.4 hours at 540 kn, then 960 kn
- 3.2 hours savings
 
WayexTDI
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:03 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
***GASP*** Another major US carrier is interested in the future of commercial aviation and what can be accomplished! I know most of airliners.net would rather see the “737 Super Max,” the “A320 Newer New Engine Option,” or the “777 XPlus” but I think it’s good that airlines are willing to see where this goes.

Airlines are currently trying to reduce cost, and most of them to reduce emissions to cater to the general public; this venture goes against that trend.

AMALH747430 wrote:
If it never flies, they haven’t lost anything.

Beg to differ. "American has paid a non-refundable deposit on the initial 20 aircraft"; so if Boom goes boom (pun intended), then AA money goes poof!
 
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DocLightning
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:03 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
AA really does not have the cash to be throwing away on non refundable deposits.


We don't know how big the deposit was, but I am a bit surprised that Boom finds themselves in a position to make such a demand. If I were an airline CEO, and especially having seen how even experienced OEMs like A and B have struggled to bring even conventional products to market, I'd be very hesitant to put down nonrefundable money on a project like this. That said, it may be that it is refundable if Boom does not produce a product. I struggle to believe that any airline would just give a blank check to a company like Boom.
 
nwt0
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:12 pm

Why are all modes of travel (besides road travel for obvious reasons) in the US and perhaps worldwide not allowed to go above a certain speed? In other words, we'll probably never have any mode of transportation, even long after our own lives have ended, that can do something like take people from New York to London in like an hour, 2 hours tops? I don't think there would be any way that teleporting would work, but why can't traveling get any faster than it already is?
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 22381
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:24 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
LAX-NRT = 4737nm = 9.8 hours at 480 kn cruise
LAX-HNL-NRT = 5539nm = 6.5 hours at 960 kn cruise (includes 45 minute refueling stop)
- 3.3 hours savings

LAX-SYD = 6507nm = 13.6 hours at 480 kn cruise
LAX-HNL-SYD = 6623nm = 7.6 hours at 960 kn cruise (includes 45 minute refueling stop)
- 6 hours savings


For LAX-NRT, they'd probably stop in ANC, which gives a total distance of 5022nm (they would have to head out to sea so as to not fly over California, but that shouldn't make a massive difference), so figure closer to 3 hours savings. Also, the 45 minute fueling stop is already optimistic but doable if they have their workflow set up. However, the aircraft still has to decelerate and descend to land and then take off and accelerate back to cruise speed, so that probably knocks an extra half hour off the savings at least. You're now talking about 2.5 hours savings on LAX-NRT and if I have the kind of money to burn on a Boom ride, it probably just makes more sense to fly in a premium class on NH or JL subsonic.

For LAX-SYD, let's say 5.5 hours savings once we take the acceleration/deceleration into account. That's definitely something, but again, is it really worth it? Add to that the fact that you aren't going to get decent sleep even if you have a lie-flat seat (which presumably this aircraft won't have) because of the fuel stop and I'm getting less and less interested even if I'm a high-powered executive. I'd rather fly F on a QF A380/789, get my sleep, and pay 1/3 the price. Certainly if you could do it nonstop and cut the travel time in half, then I'd be interested.

By contrast, if you're talking JFK-LHR or JFK-CDG, then you're looking at a Concorde and perhaps if I'm a high-powered executive, I'm now interested.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:28 pm

DocLightning wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
AA really does not have the cash to be throwing away on non refundable deposits.


We don't know how big the deposit was, but I am a bit surprised that Boom finds themselves in a position to make such a demand. If I were an airline CEO, and especially having seen how even experienced OEMs like A and B have struggled to bring even conventional products to market, I'd be very hesitant to put down nonrefundable money on a project like this. That said, it may be that it is refundable if Boom does not produce a product. I struggle to believe that any airline would just give a blank check to a company like Boom.


I think in reality they are not in a position to sign a contract where they could guarantee to pay the cash back if the program is cancelled. So any formal agreement with an airline has to be purely symbolic or non-refundable.

Which in turn suggests to me the airlines involved are either entirely interested in associating with Boom for marketing purposes, or see at least some potential for it to come to fruition, and these payments are hedges to ensure they can be among the first to offer flights on the Overture.

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