Papua New Guinea’s national carrier Air Niugini plans to start replacing its two Boeing 767 widebody aircraft and its fleet of Boeing 737s and Fokker regional jets next year.

https://www.smartaviation-apac.com/2022 ... next-year/

The A220 could do everywhere in PX's network (Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc), but has less freight capacity. The 330NEO or 789 could open up new markets (e.g. US).

It'll be interesting to see what they do - keen to hear what people here think.

Pre-covid, wasn’t JQ looking to off load 3x of there 788s with the arrival of the a321XLR’s into there fleet.

A couple of used 788s would be around 8-10 years old now.

I believe they still have 4 MAX 8s on the orderbook with Boeing, we'll see what ends up happening in the end.

The US will never happen, but they do need widebody capacity to shift cargo to/from BNE, SIN etc.

The most logical replacement for the Fokkers on domestic routes is something with props, such as the ATR-72. Short flights to some fairly rough airstrips.

The 737s aren’t that old, and they have MAX in order, so not sure why they’re talking about replacing them.

Interesting to see what they go for - wide body is more for freight than pax I would expect. I wonder if some second hand 330s could be going on the cheap? 787 seems a bit expensive and overly capable for their needs.

Looking at their route map, they have a good opportunity to get into the Australia-Japan market in the same manner as PR, etc.

melpax wrote:

Looking at their route map, they have a good opportunity to get into the Australia-Japan market in the same manner as PR, etc.

Not really. PNG isn't a transit or stopover destination with widebodies mainly required for freight, The reason they do well out of Australia is mining and resource traffic along with Government. Those contracts, along with a fairly limited capacity agreement, keeps yields up and prices high.

melpax wrote:

Looking at their route map, they have a good opportunity to get into the Australia-Japan market in the same manner as PR, etc.

You would (very occasionally) see PX come up as an option on BNE-HKG before Covid, but POM is not really set up for being a large transit hub. PX have always focussed on PNG O&D. If I can be so blunt, Port Moresby is also not somewhere you would want to be stranded in the event of a cancellation or missed connection.

Looking at the 2 B767 it will depend on the hours/cycles. One of them is Is over 30 years old and probably will be parted/scrapped. The other is 22 years old with a lot of VIP flying and will probably be converted to cargo.

The B737 is only 18 and will probably fly again with another carrier.

The F70/F100 are 25-31 years old and both types are long out of production. I see little future for them.

If I can be so blunt, Port Moresby is also not somewhere you would want to be stranded in the event of a cancellation or missed connection.[/quote]

True, didn't think of that. Though Manila isn't much better from what I've been told....

Surprised they only have 1 737, I thought they had 3-4 including a 73G? At some point anyway?

Do we expect them to buy or less brand new? Otherwise they almost seem like a good fit for the 3 JQ 788s that we’re for sale, not sure if they still are?
Maybe A220s would be a good 737, Fokker replacement? What are some of the more regional airports in PNG like?

Seems like they lease their aircraft. If that’s the case they can have their pick of wide bodies. They can get favorable terms on any type of aircraft. They will just be in a tough space to try to replace the 767. The A330 is a bigger aircraft and burns more fuel. The 787 is also a bit too much aircraft.

If they did feel the sway towards Airbus... a combination of A330-xxx/A320-xxx could mean one single type rating pool of pilots, which itself would unlock a new synergy of operational resource.

Plenty of used A330-200's on the market which in terms of reference for lower deck cargo space offers 132.4 m3 vs the B767-300 which offers 114.1 m3

ZK-NBT wrote:

Surprised they only have 1 737, I thought they had 3-4 including a 73G? At some point anyway?

Do we expect them to buy or less brand new? Otherwise they almost seem like a good fit for the 3 JQ 788s that we’re for sale, not sure if they still are?
Maybe A220s would be a good 737, Fokker replacement? What are some of the more regional airports in PNG like?

Didn’t they park a 737 in the ocean a few years back?

smi0006 wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

Surprised they only have 1 737, I thought they had 3-4 including a 73G? At some point anyway?

Do we expect them to buy or less brand new? Otherwise they almost seem like a good fit for the 3 JQ 788s that we’re for sale, not sure if they still are?
Maybe A220s would be a good 737, Fokker replacement? What are some of the more regional airports in PNG like?

Didn’t they park a 737 in the ocean a few years back?

Did they ever recover it?

Hey guys,
At one stage many years ago Air Niugini was suppose to get a Dreamliner 8 with a second on option...
Like the story decades ago with the BAe 146 purchase, it simply never happened.
Expect some political behind-the-scenes dealing over these replacement orders, similar to what happened when Air Niugini ended up with the A310 rather than the (reportedly) preferred 767 in the 1990s BEFORE the current 767 fleet replaced the A310.
Freight will be a huge factor in these orders. I've always been surprised that a pure jet freighter or two haven't appeared in Air Niugini service - perhaps the existing 737NGs could be converted to add to a possible MAX fleet?
I have no idea what the status of the previously mentioned MAX order is, though I vaguely recall a mention of it being cancelled in the aftermath of the two MAX crashes.
A couple of ex-Jetstar Dreamliner 8s would be a good start : perhaps even a couple of ex-Jetstar A32X ceos as well and even a converted A321F like QF Freight... IF the MAX deal is dead.
I think second hand A330s are a possibility, but more likely would be a couple of A330neos leased in.
As for the Fokker replacements, perhaps a fleet of used Embraer 170s and / or 190s (like Alliance / QF Link did) would do the trick. I think that a purchase of new A220s might stretch things a little far.
It will be interesting to watch the fleet development of Air Niugini.
Take care,
Bunumuring.

Could they make due with a single NB fleet (737 or 320) made up of new passenger planes and p2f conversions?

Like all of you, I wonder what they will get...I suppose the 787 can reach from PNG to some of the Western US states but is PNG attractive to US tourists and business? I think not...

Sounds like some cheap second hand A330s could serve them well. They've worked very well for Fiji Airways. There's still a fair few ex Etihad ones that are yet to find new homes IIRC and I believe it's a similar situation with the ex American Airlines fleet.

ZK-NBT wrote:

Surprised they only have 1 737, I thought they had 3-4 including a 73G? At some point anyway?

Well, there's one at the bottom of Chuuk Lagoon, about half a kilometer short of the runway... but yes, in my mind they had a similar number. I guess for them it made sense to return them during covid.

Why don't they just replace the older 767 with newer used 767? I think that even a 332 will be too much for them to fill.

As for the US, I don't think that's ever gonna happen. If countries with bigger economy/diaspora like ID, MY, and TH can't even sustain a service to the US, there's a very slim chance that they could make it work (financially ofc, not politically)

AAMDanny wrote:

If they did feel the sway towards Airbus... a combination of A330-xxx/A320-xxx could mean one single type rating pool of pilots, which itself would unlock a new synergy of operational resource.

Plenty of used A330-200's on the market which in terms of reference for lower deck cargo space offers 132.4 m3 vs the B767-300 which offers 114.1 m3

Can you elaborate on ‘the same pilot pool’? The pilots won’t be able to fly a A330 one day and the A320 the next. It’s no different than a 787 and 737 pilot.

AAPilot48Heavy wrote:

AAMDanny wrote:

If they did feel the sway towards Airbus... a combination of A330-xxx/A320-xxx could mean one single type rating pool of pilots, which itself would unlock a new synergy of operational resource.

Plenty of used A330-200's on the market which in terms of reference for lower deck cargo space offers 132.4 m3 vs the B767-300 which offers 114.1 m3

Can you elaborate on ‘the same pilot pool’? The pilots won’t be able to fly a A330 one day and the A320 the next. It’s no different than a 787 and 737 pilot.

With mixed fleet flying you can. But it’s wrong to say “one single type rating pool of pilots”. It’s still two separate type ratings that the pilots must have- the A320 and A330.

The main benefit of mixed fleet flying is more efficient scheduling so you need less pilots for your (typically in mixed fleet flying) small wide body fleet, not so much training.

AAPilot48Heavy wrote:

Can you elaborate on ‘the same pilot pool’? The pilots won’t be able to fly a A330 one day and the A320 the next. It’s no different than a 787 and 737 pilot.

A318 to A340-600 can be licensed as one type rating with differences training. I flew on a North Pole sightseeing flight on an Air-Berlin A330 and the captain’s next trip after it was to Lisbon flying an A320. Crew at MEA in Lebanon will fly an A320 to Baghdad or Istanbul one day and an A330 to Lagos or Paris the next. At a small airline like that, you can take advantage of the common cockpit concept. MEA only have two A330s I think so it really suits them. Wonder how it works at Aer Lingus?

bunumuring wrote:

Hey guys,
At one stage many years ago Air Niugini was suppose to get a Dreamliner 8 with a second on option...
Like the story decades ago with the BAe 146 purchase, it simply never happened.
Expect some political behind-the-scenes dealing over these replacement orders, similar to what happened when Air Niugini ended up with the A310 rather than the (reportedly) preferred 767 in the 1990s BEFORE the current 767 fleet replaced the A310.
Freight will be a huge factor in these orders. I've always been surprised that a pure jet freighter or two haven't appeared in Air Niugini service - perhaps the existing 737NGs could be converted to add to a possible MAX fleet?
I have no idea what the status of the previously mentioned MAX order is, though I vaguely recall a mention of it being cancelled in the aftermath of the two MAX crashes.
A couple of ex-Jetstar Dreamliner 8s would be a good start : perhaps even a couple of ex-Jetstar A32X ceos as well and even a converted A321F like QF Freight... IF the MAX deal is dead.
I think second hand A330s are a possibility, but more likely would be a couple of A330neos leased in.
As for the Fokker replacements, perhaps a fleet of used Embraer 170s and / or 190s (like Alliance / QF Link did) would do the trick. I think that a purchase of new A220s might stretch things a little far.
It will be interesting to watch the fleet development of Air Niugini.
Take care,
Bunumuring.

I didn’t realise JQ was going to sell their 788 I assumed QF would take some - interesting! Maybe we’ll here more at annual results this week.

I have a soft spot for PX seeing them in BNE/SYD and really want to see them do well, but PNG is such a challenging environment. Didn’t they loose a Dash-8 not so long ago to riots too?

I doubt politics would allow it, but a wetlease with alliance or dry/damp lease could be good for some E-190s? I wonder if it’s a cheaper option that starting up their own ops. Challenge could be insurance operating into PNG, and politics.

I agree a dedicated freighter makes more sense to me. Maybe a single 767F and then 321 for pax flying?

Is PX profitable? Or are they a government money pit?

Re POM being a transit point: There was a time, many many years back, when NZ, CX and PX had a tripartite route AKL-POM-HKG. Operation alternated (by season?) between NZ and CX. Does anybody recall whether PX operated it was well? I think it would have been with 707s if they did.

If JQ really is selling three B788s, I would have to wonder if PX should not be all over them.

As for the rest of the fleet, the ATR-72 should work domestically and then the A220-300 for regional haul where the cargo capacity of the 787 isn't needed.

DavidByrne wrote:

Re POM being a transit point: There was a time, many many years back, when NZ, CX and PX had a tripartite route AKL-POM-HKG. Operation alternated (by season?) between NZ and CX. Does anybody recall whether PX operated it was well? I think it would have been with 707s if they did.

I think it was by season at least initially, started in 1983. Not sure if PX operated as well? I recall seeing a PX 707 pictured at the old AIAL viewing deck I am pretty sure in the past airlines section some years ago now. I think NZ ran 1 weekly in NW but did they stop in POM? Or possibly in the early days PX ran it and NZ didn’t serve HKG for a while?

http://www.departedflights.com/AKL83p1.html

By 1989 both NZ and CX served AKL-HKG 1 weekly each on 747s.

DavidByrne wrote:

Re POM being a transit point: There was a time, many many years back, when NZ, CX and PX had a tripartite route AKL-POM-HKG. Operation alternated (by season?) between NZ and CX. Does anybody recall whether PX operated it was well? I think it would have been with 707s if they did.

PX definitely did at one point. I lived in HK in the
80s and i recall seeing the 707 there. I think every 6 months the 3 airlines took turns operating it.

cedarjet wrote:

Wonder how it works at Aer Lingus?

Are Lingus used multi fleet flying before the IAG takeover. Not sure if anything’s changed since.

I’m wondering about the Fokker replacement, the A220 could be a good replacement as long the hot and high performance is good enough for the highlands, it’s a bit bigger than the Fokker 70 but that can be backfilled by more secondhand Dash 8-400s for Link PNG. Qantas and Air Vanuatu (if they don’t cancel) will operate the type so there would be regional support, But then Pixie generally lease second hand aircraft so Embraer 190 seems more likely replacement.

For the 737 they’re down to one aircraft, but as it’s not a particularly old type and already in the fleet it would make more sense to add more 5-10 year old aircraft as traffic numbers increase. Unless they’re unhappy with the type.

For the 767 replacement, if they don’t get dedicated freighter aircraft then a pair of second hand A330-200s seems the most likely.

vhqpa wrote:

I’m wondering about the Fokker replacement, the A220 could be a good replacement as long the hot and high performance is good enough for the highlands, it’s a bit bigger than the Fokker 70 but that can be backfilled by more secondhand Dash 8-400s for Link PNG. Qantas and Air Vanuatu (if they don’t cancel) will operate the type so there would be regional support, But then Pixie generally lease second hand aircraft so Embraer 190 seems more likely replacement.

A220-100 should have the hot and high performance. However, I am not sure what kind of delivery lead time will be required - so if the aircraft is needed urgently, it may not be the best choice.

SXDFC wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

Surprised they only have 1 737, I thought they had 3-4 including a 73G? At some point anyway?

Do we expect them to buy or less brand new? Otherwise they almost seem like a good fit for the 3 JQ 788s that we’re for sale, not sure if they still are?
Maybe A220s would be a good 737, Fokker replacement? What are some of the more regional airports in PNG like?

Didn’t they park a 737 in the ocean a few years back?

Did they ever recover it?

More importantly, is it a write off?

DavidByrne wrote:

Re POM being a transit point: There was a time, many many years back, when NZ, CX and PX had a tripartite route AKL-POM-HKG. Operation alternated (by season?) between NZ and CX. Does anybody recall whether PX operated it was well? I think it would have been with 707s if they did.

Yes it was a Boeing 707 and I remember seeing one on gate 7 at AKL airport in 1982.

NZ516 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

Re POM being a transit point: There was a time, many many years back, when NZ, CX and PX had a tripartite route AKL-POM-HKG. Operation alternated (by season?) between NZ and CX. Does anybody recall whether PX operated it was well? I think it would have been with 707s if they did.

Yes it was a Boeing 707 and I remember seeing one on gate 7 at AKL airport in 1982.

That’s an impressive memory. It was a non contact gate, ie no airbridge then, only gates 1-6 had bridges.I think it was gate 7 I walked from a CO 747 as a young boy in 1987 with my parents.

CX started AKL in 1983 via POM but I think you are right that PX served AKL around then and we’re initially part of an NZ/CX/PX deal, though I don’t think NZ stopped at POM, they were doing AKL-HKG on the D10 in 1980, I think it started via SYD or BNE around 1976 from memory.

[photoid][/photoid]

ZK-NBT wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

Re POM being a transit point: There was a time, many many years back, when NZ, CX and PX had a tripartite route AKL-POM-HKG. Operation alternated (by season?) between NZ and CX. Does anybody recall whether PX operated it was well? I think it would have been with 707s if they did.

Yes it was a Boeing 707 and I remember seeing one on gate 7 at AKL airport in 1982.

That’s an impressive memory. It was a non contact gate, ie no airbridge then, only gates 1-6 had bridges.I think it was gate 7 I walked from a CO 747 as a young boy in 1987 with my parents.

CX started AKL in 1983 via POM but I think you are right that PX served AKL around then and we’re initially part of an NZ/CX/PX deal, though I don’t think NZ stopped at POM, they were doing AKL-HKG on the D10 in 1980, I think it started via SYD or BNE around 1976 from memory.

Yes it's a strong memory for me. I was also a boy at the time and the PX 707 was the only aircraft by the international terminal all afternoon that day.
I was hoping for it to depart but it never moved from while I was on the viewing area.

zkojq wrote:

Well, there's one at the bottom of Chuuk Lagoon, about half a kilometer short of the runway... but yes, in my mind they had a similar number. I guess for them it made sense to return them during covid.

Surprising this was never salvaged, considering the possibilities of ecological damage from leaking fluids, etc.

Rumor: 2x Fiji Airways A330's going to PNG. Fiji getting 2x A350's as replacement.

T54A wrote:

Rumor: 2x Fiji Airways A330's going to PNG. Fiji getting 2x A350's as replacement.

Where did you hear that?

The 330 could work well.

Hopefully it will give them a chance to do a rebrand with a new livery and logo.

kriskim wrote:

Hopefully it will give them a chance to do a rebrand with a new livery and logo.

What's wrong with their logo ? The Bird Of Paradise has always been part of the Air Niugini livery.

T54A wrote:

Rumor: 2x Fiji Airways A330's going to PNG. Fiji getting 2x A350's as replacement.

Why would FJ do that I wonder?

I would say FJ may want to possibly simplify their widebody fleet (e.g all A359), hence the A330 to PX rumours.
I think at least 2 of the ex-Norwegian Long Haul 787s may also be ideal candidates for PX.

Not sure about the x3 JQ 788s going to PX, more likely there's a better chance of 3, maybe 4 of JQ's 788s ending up at QF mainline for mostly ex-BNE-USA (and Asia/Singapore) services with a reconfigured cabin to accomodate a crew rest, freeing up the A330s for SYD/MEL-Asia.

SCFlyer wrote:

I would say FJ may want to possibly simplify their widebody fleet (e.g all A359), hence the A330 to PX rumours.
I think at least 2 of the ex-Norwegian Long Haul 787s may also be ideal candidates for PX.

Not sure about the x3 JQ 788s going to PX, more likely there's a better chance of 3, maybe 4 of JQ's 788s ending up at QF mainline for mostly ex-BNE-USA (and Asia/Singapore) services with a reconfigured cabin to accomodate a crew rest, freeing up the A330s for SYD/MEL-Asia.

Maybe the single A333 and 1 A332 to PX? From FJ perspective that would leave them potentially 4 A359s and 2 smaller A 332s for new routes, while more freight capacity on the A333 for PX and they don’t need the range.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... more-a350s

FJ is denying reports that it is looking at additional A350s and plans to keep the current fleet for a few years, while stating the A350 has been a success for them.

The A330 imo is a great fit for them, they don’t need the range of an A359 or more of them at least. When the time comes to replace the A330s then I could see more A350s or if they need additional capacity.

This doesn’t answer PX fleet replacement.

The airline's GM Commercial has said new services are planned (without giving specifics).

https://www.businessadvantagepng.com/fi ... r-niugini/

I wonder if we could see POM-AKL return in the future. The GM Commercial is a Kiwi!

kriskim wrote:

Hopefully it will give them a chance to do a rebrand with a new livery and logo.

Are you insane? (Joke, not really accusing of madness) The kumul (bird of paradise) is emblematic of PNG and it’s airline. Plus it looks smashing.

Back to OG post, I think PNG can’t afford new planes so will/should opt for pre-loved A330’s (-200 and -300) plus new A321-xlr and A220 (-300 and -100), the A321 is good for freight and higher frequency on some existing longer routes or for opening new ones.

Motorhussy wrote:

kriskim wrote:

Hopefully it will give them a chance to do a rebrand with a new livery and logo.

Are you insane? (Joke, not really accusing of madness) The kumul (bird of paradise) is emblematic of PNG and it’s airline. Plus it looks smashing.

Back to OG post, I think PNG can’t afford new planes so will/should opt for pre-loved A330’s (-200 and -300) plus new A321-xlr and A220 (-300 and -100), the A321 is good for freight and higher frequency on some existing longer routes or for opening new ones.

Not saying they should get rid of the Kumul, just saying that the brand needs a little refresh and with a new fleet, it’s the best time to do this.

Air Niugini’s brand isn’t as strong as FJ, SB or TN.

kriskim wrote:

Motorhussy wrote:

kriskim wrote:

Hopefully it will give them a chance to do a rebrand with a new livery and logo.

Are you insane? (Joke, not really accusing of madness) The kumul (bird of paradise) is emblematic of PNG and it’s airline. Plus it looks smashing.

Back to OG post, I think PNG can’t afford new planes so will/should opt for pre-loved A330’s (-200 and -300) plus new A321-xlr and A220 (-300 and -100), the A321 is good for freight and higher frequency on some existing longer routes or for opening new ones.

Not saying they should get rid of the Kumul, just saying that the brand needs a little refresh and with a new fleet, it’s the best time to do this.

Air Niugini’s brand isn’t as strong as FJ, SB or TN.

Agree - I think the Kumul is stunning, but they do need to refresh their branding somewhat, just soften it!

I wish PNG was safer, would love to go there. I always wonder what their load factor ex-AU is? I sadly can’t see PNG ever getting on the leisure travelers map.

Are there any dedicated freight services to POM? Wonder if a 320/321LR fleet would be enough for pax uplift, and 321-P2F like QF have done could better meet their freight needs?

Hey guys,
PNG has been on my bucket list basically since I was a teenager. Sadly I knocked back a couple of opportunities to go there with my grandfather 30 or so years ago as he had fought in WW2 on the Kokoda Trail and wanted to revisit the area to pay thanks again to the locals who saved his life.
I know a few people who have travelled there for the diving off the north coast of PNG plus a few who have gone there for government work. we also had family friends who were missionaries in the PNG highlands.
The one time I tried to book a holiday to PNG I was put off by a lack of accommodation in Port Moresby even though I wanted to travel around a fair bit of the country. I don't know if there still is a shortage of reasonable accommodation but it really turned me off booking the trip. The air fares were high but compatible with travelling Sydney-Broome which I've done a few times.
I love Air Niugini's current colours but agree that they could do more. I remember the old ex-TAA A300B4 with the huge bird of paradise down the side - what a precursor to some current trends it turned out to be! Certainly more colour along the fuselage and a larger bird motif could be done...
Take care,
Bunumuring

PX cancelled their 787 order YEARS ago. They also used to fly a 707 to HNL and also to FUK) in the 70's.
You often see Australia - NRT fares, but the connection is only once a week.
They can try AKL, but is their enough demand to/from POM? They also don't have enough aircraft to operate a transit operation and as stated correctly above, POM is one of the last place on Earth you want to be stranded (with an honourable mention to HIR).