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AV8AJET
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Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:05 pm

Getting on a Delta 738 here in CVG and they are using B5 for the front rows 1-22 and B3 for the rear door rows 22 and up. Haven’t seen this here before guessing it’s a test. Anyone else had this in CVG yet?
 
sonnyr23
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:40 pm

No possible way that they can do Outside Air Stairs Duo Boarding Year Round in CVG. Maybe seasonal.
 
TonyClifton
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:00 pm

sonnyr23 wrote:
No possible way that they can do Outside Air Stairs Duo Boarding Year Round in CVG. Maybe seasonal.

Two different gates, B5 and B3, not aft stairs.
 
a320flyer
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:01 pm

Haven’t seen that before in CVG, but DL has plenty of empty gates at the moment.

Wonder if they’re doing in on the CVG-CDG flight for the B763.
 
questions
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:46 pm

Is the aircraft parked parallel to the terminal?

If not, how is the jetway getting around the wing?
 
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argentinevol98
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:52 pm

Neat, I’ve honestly never seen that in the US in my personal experience. Especially with two jetbridges. That should be quite a bit more efficient in the places where space makes that possible, although that’s not likely to be all too many major US airports.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:56 pm

This seems fairly doable, if the aircraft is parked at the slanted line at the gate on the right (B5, with B3 to the left). Effectively similar to parking parallel to terminal. Although, that B3 jetbridge has to be pretty long. Image
 
zuckie13
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:07 pm

Certainly an odd setup to use two gates to board one narrow body. Only works in a place where you have spare gates available.
Only place I've seen front and rear boarding on a narrow body in the US is at ALB. Not sure if those two WN gates still do that up there.
 
Pspuza
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:01 pm

It’s legit. Currently 738 and 739 only. Will start trials on A321 in October and the “test” ends a month after.
 
Prost
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:28 pm

DL FAs got an email confirming this recently.
 
cokepopper
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:40 pm

This right here.
Prost wrote:
DL FAs got an email confirming this recently.


Correct!
 
dmanonice
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:46 pm

I would like to see a picture of how this is setup, because in my mind there is no way the second bridge connects (with only 1 pivot point at the terminal) without taking off the winglet! I have used a dual bridge on WS 737s back in the day YYC and YVR each were equipped with them as trials (which did not go well).
 
ArcticFlyer
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:16 pm

I've never seen dual jetbridges used for a narrowbody, but Alaska Airlines used to do something similar in Seattle and Anchorage on their 737s (when the weather was nice): The jetbridge was hooked up to the front door as usual, while passengers behind row 20 had the option to walk outside and board through the rear door via stairs. I haven't seen them do this in 5 years or so.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:18 pm

Interesting. How many gates any airports systemwide would this even be possible? I just don't know of to many airports where DL has enough adjacent gates that would fit it appropriately that have jet bridges that can reach the rear door.
 
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GlobalAirways
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:32 pm

Gee, I'd sure like to see a photo...
 
ILS28ORD
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:58 pm

Southwest has done this at KALB for years. I de-boarded through the rear jetbridge and walked over the wing, however KALB has actual dual-jetbridge gates where the 2nd, rear bridge lowers over the left wing between the fuselage and winglet like a gate at a rail crossing, they didn't use 2 separate gate's jetbridges.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:38 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Interesting. How many gates any airports systemwide would this even be possible? I just don't know of to many airports where DL has enough adjacent gates that would fit it appropriately that have jet bridges that can reach the rear door.


Aircraft time is money, but how many busy airports have the extra gates to do this? It doesn't seem like they could schedule this very reliably (at JFK, ATL, LAX...). An adjacent gate sees an aircraft get delayed pulling away by ten minutes and the plan falls apart.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:51 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Interesting. How many gates any airports systemwide would this even be possible? I just don't know of to many airports where DL has enough adjacent gates that would fit it appropriately that have jet bridges that can reach the rear door.


Aircraft time is money, but how many busy airports have the extra gates to do this? It doesn't seem like they could schedule this very reliably (at JFK, ATL, LAX...). An adjacent gate sees an aircraft get delayed pulling away by ten minutes and the plan falls apart.


Just to play devils advocate, a bridge malfunctioning and dropping on the wing costs serious money.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:55 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Interesting. How many gates any airports systemwide would this even be possible? I just don't know of to many airports where DL has enough adjacent gates that would fit it appropriately that have jet bridges that can reach the rear door.


Aircraft time is money, but how many busy airports have the extra gates to do this? It doesn't seem like they could schedule this very reliably (at JFK, ATL, LAX...). An adjacent gate sees an aircraft get delayed pulling away by ten minutes and the plan falls apart.


Just to play devils advocate, a bridge malfunctioning and dropping on the wing costs serious money.


Yes, but I'm not sure this particular bridge goes over the wing.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:56 pm

United tried this in DEN with Ted about 15 years ago.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... 09077f5615
 
ooslc
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:02 pm

AS did this in SJC years ago with air stairs. Haven't flown through in a while so don't know if they use jet bridges now.
 
airpixphoto
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:16 am

AV8AJET wrote:
Getting on a Delta 738 here in CVG and they are using B5 for the front rows 1-22 and B3 for the rear door rows 22 and up. Haven’t seen this here before guessing it’s a test. Anyone else had this in CVG yet?

Delta did that with L-1011’s back in the day. I worked for LC/AL/US at CVG From 1963-1997. I’ll look at some aerial photos I shot to see if I captured it. Don’t hold your breath. I only did aerials once a month during DL expansion.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:39 am

argentinevol98 wrote:
Neat, I’ve honestly never seen that in the US in my personal experience. Especially with two jetbridges. That should be quite a bit more efficient in the places where space makes that possible, although that’s not likely to be all too many major US airports.

Years ago I saw it being done at SFO but it had to be on Jetway boarded gates as you can actually drive a jetway where you'd want it and we only had 2 gates with Jetways at that time. the rest were fixed "Speedways" where you could drive the airplane up and load through door 1 and 2 in front of the wing.. now there are a number of gates on the North Terminal with Jetways but not the room to Parallel park on the terminal so it's impractical. unless there's an emergency need. And I cannot figure out what that might be.. Could it happen? Yes. Will it happen? I doubt it.
 
Chuska
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:19 am

When some of the big terminals like at ORD and LAX were first built in the 1960's, dual jetbridges were pretty common. With reduced traffic and extra gates at some airports, it'll be great to see this concept come back. It often takes 15 minutes just to deplane an average 739 or A321.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:38 am

The reality is that that dual jet bridge loading/unloading is frought with downside:
- Risk of aircraft damage from positioning a jet bridge behind and / or over the wing
- Additional gate agent required to position the jet bridge and/or oversee boarding at an additional gate
- Design / reconfiguration of ramp space
- Design / reconfiguration of jetbridges

Yes, sure it can shave a few minutes off of turnaround times, but most airports don't have the infrastructure designed to do so.
The airport that have the extra space though frankly don't be the ones too constrained on turn times.
 
schernov
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:31 am

United does dual gate boarding at ORD for wide bodies.
 
a320fan
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:57 am

schernov wrote:
United does dual gate boarding at ORD for wide bodies.

Surely that’s two jetbridges from the same gate to the two doors in front of the wing on many widebodys. A very common setup for widebodys globally, and very different from attaching a jetway to the rear door.
 
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BoatStuck
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:00 am

I wish they can do this more, or even just use airstairs for the rear door, but I know it's probably impractical to do on a large scale in the US.

Flying in Europe, where they used the rear door more often, was a significantly better experience as a passenger for boarding/deboarding as it was much faster.
 
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77west
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:04 am

Here in New Zealand, they commonly do it on A320's using the rear airstairs method. Rows beyond middle of the plane get diverted down some stairs attached to the jetway and walk a short distance to the rear left door. I think its nice in summer but when raining or blowing a gale its less fun. Also some of our airstairs are made from simple stainless steel tube frames with steel mesh steps and no cover, so if it is raining the people waiting on the steps are not having a nice time.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:44 am

There is a big difference from dual loading bridges on widebodies that use L1 & L2 from a common gate headhouse.

Airstair and ground loading in the USA is generally persona non grata because of the increased need for security/safety/staffing measures from having to need to have ground crew supervision of having passengers on an open ramp an ADA requirements.

While it makes perfect sense in reality, the single jetbridge loading requires the least amount of staffing.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:43 am

sonnyr23 wrote:
No possible way that they can do Outside Air Stairs Duo Boarding Year Round in CVG. Maybe seasonal.


Why the heck not? Come out to Jackson Hole, Wyoming where Delta boards 757s, A319s and RJs outdoors year round.
 
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conaly
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:00 am

ArcticFlyer wrote:
I've never seen dual jetbridges used for a narrowbody


Lufthansa did it fairly often with their A321ceo in FRA and MUC, but only with the doors in front of the wing:
viewtopic.php?t=1423439
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:10 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The airport that have the extra space though frankly don't be the ones too constrained on turn times.


That's what I was thinking. (And why they are testing it at nice, quiet CVG.) The airports that need it won't be able to use it reliably. They won't have a stable plan - it will just be a chaotic scramble for a hundred arrivals a day.
 
dmanonice
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:19 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The reality is that that dual jet bridge loading/unloading is frought with downside:
- Risk of aircraft damage from positioning a jet bridge behind and / or over the wing
- Additional gate agent required to position the jet bridge and/or oversee boarding at an additional gate
- Design / reconfiguration of ramp space
- Design / reconfiguration of jetbridges


All of this is why WS abandoned the project. Only 1 gate at YYC was equipped (what was gate 40 and is now the ground loading gates on the A concourse) and the 3 YVR gates were dismantled after only 5 years it just wasn't worth the extra efforts vs. the time saved.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The airport that have the extra space though frankly don't be the ones too constrained on turn times.


That's what I was thinking. (And why they are testing it at nice, quiet CVG.) The airports that need it won't be able to use it reliably. They won't have a stable plan - it will just be a chaotic scramble for a hundred arrivals a day.

I'm pretty sure it helps DL if they can shorten the turn time anywhere.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:40 pm

Something needs to be figured out for the A321 and 739. Boarding (and more importantly) deboarding those are the worst. It’s gotten to the point where I’ll pick around flying on them. Even with (lowly) status on DL, I find unless I am in Comfort Plus it is just such a pain.

I really think Airbus missed out on mid-plane boarding with A321 vs the 757.

Nothing can save a 739 except boarding with both doors (unlikely, for the many reasons discussed above)
 
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ramprat74
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:46 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
United tried this in DEN with Ted about 15 years ago.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... 09077f5615


Until the rear jetway collapsed on the wing, then United removed them. Pull up any airport picture from the 60’s and you will see aircraft being parked parallel to the terminal and two jetways connected to the aircraft.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:24 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The airport that have the extra space though frankly don't be the ones too constrained on turn times.


That's what I was thinking. (And why they are testing it at nice, quiet CVG.) The airports that need it won't be able to use it reliably. They won't have a stable plan - it will just be a chaotic scramble for a hundred arrivals a day.


The question is, if you can turn that plane faster at one or two airports in its day, that squeezes just a little more efficiency out of the fleet. If they can add it to a number of spokes, that might help systemwide. It’s worth studying at least.
 
codc10
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:49 pm

I don't think there are many airports where something like this would be feasible on any kind of scale. CVG is probably somewhat unique in that it is a former hub where, by virtue of long-term leases, Delta has real estate surplus to its needs. Maybe at DTW, where Delta is still down materially in departures, but they still run a banked schedule there where most gates are occupied. The other consideration, especially at hubs, is if there is some excess of gates at the moment, there is also likely to be an excess of aircraft, which would tend to negate the benefit of shorter turns. In other words, if Delta's fleet is not at near/full utilization, the benefit of reducing turn times is diminished.

Over-the-wing jetbridges have been tried at a number of locations by different operators over the years, and they prove to be unnecessarily complex, require additional labor and are maintenance-intensive. That and other forward/aft loading solutions tend to be much more expensive that a single, conventional forward-loading jetbridge and so the cost/benefit analysis for capital projects comes into play. In that case, I suspect there would need to be a significant utilization advantage, and even then, probably only achievable at larger scale (vs. turns at one airport).

For all these reasons, I suspect this trial is mostly exploratory, and for the purpose of gathering data, rather than indicative of some near-term strategy to be deployed elsewhere. I'd be interested to see this experimental configuration in use at CVG.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:11 pm

codc10 wrote:
I don't think there are many airports where something like this would be feasible on any kind of scale. CVG is probably somewhat unique in that it is a former hub where, by virtue of long-term leases, Delta has real estate surplus to its needs. Maybe at DTW, where Delta is still down materially in departures, but they still run a banked schedule there where most gates are occupied. The other consideration, especially at hubs, is if there is some excess of gates at the moment, there is also likely to be an excess of aircraft, which would tend to negate the benefit of shorter turns. In other words, if Delta's fleet is not at near/full utilization, the benefit of reducing turn times is diminished.

Over-the-wing jetbridges have been tried at a number of locations by different operators over the years, and they prove to be unnecessarily complex, require additional labor and are maintenance-intensive. That and other forward/aft loading solutions tend to be much more expensive that a single, conventional forward-loading jetbridge and so the cost/benefit analysis for capital projects comes into play. In that case, I suspect there would need to be a significant utilization advantage, and even then, probably only achievable at larger scale (vs. turns at one airport).

For all these reasons, I suspect this trial is mostly exploratory, and for the purpose of gathering data, rather than indicative of some near-term strategy to be deployed elsewhere. I'd be interested to see this experimental configuration in use at CVG.


Ya know, reading this, I'm curious if DL is experimenting to see how much dual jetbridges speed up things, so that they can evaluate an over the wing solution at busier airports.

I always was kinda surprised that the solution UA used didn't just have a tower and cables as a support option, maybe the manufacturer has come back with something that looks safer?
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:37 pm

I don't understand why no one has thought about using dual boarding with both left and right doors? You should be able to connect two jetways easily to both forward doors. It would make sense on widebodies since there are two aisles.
 
Acey
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:40 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I don't understand why no one has thought about using dual boarding with both left and right doors? You should be able to connect two jetways easily to both forward doors. It would make sense on widebodies since there are two aisles.

More likely is that someone has "thought" about it, realized the logistical disadvantages outweigh the advantages, and dismissed the idea.
 
Italianflyer
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:03 pm

TWA used to use 1L&R or 1L&2R at one of their gates at JFK on 747s & L10s. I'm sure there are pics on here. Of course the old TW "Flight Wings" had some bizarre jetway & ramp configurations that made it possible.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:41 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I don't understand why no one has thought about using dual boarding with both left and right doors? You should be able to connect two jetways easily to both forward doors. It would make sense on widebodies since there are two aisles.

On some planes like the 737, the right side doors are smaller than the left side doors. Additionally, unless the aircraft is a widebody, you wouldn't really be saving any time. Then there's the additional gate agent that would be required for the other gate.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:42 pm

Acey wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I don't understand why no one has thought about using dual boarding with both left and right doors? You should be able to connect two jetways easily to both forward doors. It would make sense on widebodies since there are two aisles.

More likely is that someone has "thought" about it, realized the logistical disadvantages outweigh the advantages, and dismissed the idea.


It makes sense to board from L&R at the same time with a dual aisle plane, but not with a narrowbody plane, where the bottleneck is the single aisle.

Also if you're boarding from 2L&2R, the airline is going to need a different way to sort out the passengers. You'll want people on the R side entering on the R side, people on the L side to enter on the L side, and people in the middle to be evenly split between the two sides, which is a slightly different IT problem than airlines usually deal with.
 
FGITD
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:53 am

Boarding from both sides creates issues because that’s where all the below wing work is happening, except usually fueling.

It’s just not worth the hassle for the minimal time it saves
 
airlinepeanuts
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:46 am

Inherently, you're going to get someone going the wrong way down the aisle and screw the whole thing up lol
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:59 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
There is a big difference from dual loading bridges on widebodies that use L1 & L2 from a common gate headhouse.

Airstair and ground loading in the USA is generally persona non grata because of the increased need for security/safety/staffing measures from having to need to have ground crew supervision of having passengers on an open ramp an ADA requirements.

While it makes perfect sense in reality, the single jetbridge loading requires the least amount of staffing.


This has to be the winning post thus far for me. I can't see ways around, the ADA requirements, as well as the crucial staffing (and security, to maintain the secured airfield).

I've seen rear-stair deplaining done at PBI (with B6, not much in the ways of connections here; mainly O/D) and it only now dawns on me how labor intensive it might be/was (to add to what would otherwise be a normally 'personalle light' handling of the arrival), in having to add two, or three agents to marshal passengers to the stairs/gate.

Past F.O.D., and inclement weather, boarding at night, dawn and/or dusk - adds a complication to boarding, that within the U.S. might increase liabilities to a point of not being worth it. (Sadly?) Long-gone are the days of rear-stairs, and lovely 727s, DC-9/MD-80s with the built in solutions. Interestingly, these aircraft (and their related technologies) did not survive to LCCs, who might have employed them well. DId AirTran (or the predecessor's) DC-9s have/use rear-stairs? Are there still RyanAir 737s with built in boarding stairs?


I do wonder, semi-related, though - if "over-wing' dual loading bridges could also help in decreasing the processes.

https://simpleflying.com/do-any-airports-still-have-over-wing-jet-bridges/
Overwing gates were used at many North American airports. As just shown, they appeared early at LAX. Denver, Albany, Austin, Calgary, and Vancouver airports all used a similar bridge style at some point. Albany airport still had them in use recently and had adapted them to use with Southwest's Boeing 737s.


More brilliantly from that article, though is:

https://simpleflying.com/do-any-airports-still-have-over-wing-jet-bridges/The overwing jetbridge was a solution for this. This uses a standard jet bridge structure to connect to the forward door and an attached second bridge to branch out over the wing and connect to a further after door. It has been most common;y used with the Boeing 747 (connecting to the rear door four), but some airports have used it for the A340 and 777 as well (and possibly other aircraft).One early such structure was introduced at Los Angeles International Airport by TWA. This, in fact, used three connected jet bridges, with the third overwing bridge supported by a ground pillar.


I mean, that's alot of jet, Harry!
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:29 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
There is a big difference from dual loading bridges on widebodies that use L1 & L2 from a common gate headhouse.

Airstair and ground loading in the USA is generally persona non grata because of the increased need for security/safety/staffing measures from having to need to have ground crew supervision of having passengers on an open ramp an ADA requirements.

While it makes perfect sense in reality, the single jetbridge loading requires the least amount of staffing.


This is only the problem in USA, plenty of flights all over the world board via the ramp everyday.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Dual front and rear passenger jetway boarding in CVG

Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:48 am

Rajahdhani wrote:
Past F.O.D., and inclement weather, boarding at night, dawn and/or dusk - adds a complication to boarding, that within the U.S. might increase liabilities to a point of not being worth it. (Sadly?) Long-gone are the days of rear-stairs, and lovely 727s, DC-9/MD-80s with the built in solutions. Interestingly, these aircraft (and their related technologies) did not survive to LCCs, who might have employed them well. DId AirTran (or the predecessor's) DC-9s have/use rear-stairs? Are there still RyanAir 737s with built in boarding stairs?


ValuJet Airlines which merged with and took the name of AirTran Airways to get rid of its ValuJet name, was a large DC-9 and MD-80 LCC operator. They were also the launch operator for the MD-95/717, most of which went to Delta. I'm not sure if they ever used the rear-stairs for boarding.

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