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admanager
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De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:51 pm

https://calgaryherald.com/business/varc ... 26391/amp/
A complete green field development including runways, assembly buildings, and everything else to support their line.
Also noted is there will be a review of the twin otter and Q400 business lines
 
wedgetail737
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:10 pm

I thought Viking bought the rights to build the Twin Otters.
 
jbs2886
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:14 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
I thought Viking bought the rights to build the Twin Otters.


Viking bought De Havilland, its one in the same.
 
SEA
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:26 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
I thought Viking bought the rights to build the Twin Otters.


From the article:

In February, the company announced the consolidation of Viking Air, Longview Aviation, Pacific Sky Training and De Havilland Canada under the operating brand, De Havilland Aircraft of Canada. The company is owned by Westerkirk Capital, which is owned by billionaire Sherry Brydson.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:13 pm

The CL-215/415 were manufactured historically first in Montreal and then North Bay ON I believe.
I know the Montreal facility has long been closed but what happened to the one in North Bay?

The Twin Otter (Twotter) has been dormant for a few years and I hope to see it revived.

The Dash-8-400 is currently manufactured in Toronto and has been for ages.
Is there any current backlog? If so, can Toronto handle it before Downsview closes?

Is there any chance of future orders for the Dash-8? The technology is aging rapidly so I personally doubt it. There are so many used frames sitting around waiting for a buyer as far as I know.
 
baje427
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:00 pm

I think they should make the step and launch the electric version of the classic Dash 8.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:03 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
The CL-215/415 were manufactured historically first in Montreal and then North Bay ON I believe.
I know the Montreal facility has long been closed but what happened to the one in North Bay?

The Twin Otter (Twotter) has been dormant for a few years and I hope to see it revived.

The Dash-8-400 is currently manufactured in Toronto and has been for ages.
Is there any current backlog? If so, can Toronto handle it before Downsview closes?

Is there any chance of future orders for the Dash-8? The technology is aging rapidly so I personally doubt it. There are so many used frames sitting around waiting for a buyer as far as I know.


I think the future of the Dash-8 is in seeing if the 100-300 series can be rebuilt along the lines of what they (as Viking) did for the Beaver and Otter (excluding the new builds). It's hard to zero-hour a pressurized aircraft, but operators in that market are not exactly spoiled for choice, so it may be worth trying.

I would LOVE to see something new out of the heritage of DHC, but they play in a really tight market. That being said, we know so little about this new facility. They may be able to do some licensed work for other companies.
 
gmcc
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:18 pm

Little video from De Havilland showing the vision for the field
https://vimeo.com/751419485
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:21 pm

Dash 8-400 production has stopped at Downsview with the closing ceremony back in June 22. I believe they now only have offices in Toronto.

DHC has moved its Toronto staff to new offices at nearby Pearson Airport, where the engineering team is working with DHC employees across Canada to launch of production of the DHC-515 Firefighter (née CL-515) in Calgary, Alberta, where DHC also manufactures the Twin Otter Series 400. The company recently secured an order for 23 DHC-515s from several European government customers.


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ew-airport
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:52 pm

This is a dying company until and unless they can develop a new aircraft. I don't think this will end well. I don't think this is a win for Calgary given who is being attracted. Hope tax dollars didn't go to this.
 
F9Animal
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:06 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
This is a dying company until and unless they can develop a new aircraft. I don't think this will end well. I don't think this is a win for Calgary given who is being attracted. Hope tax dollars didn't go to this.


I would think they have plans to develop a new plane. I mean, it's the only logical reasoning for this new property. Hoping whatever they plan, it's something sweeter than the beautiful products they have produced.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:52 pm

SEA wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I thought Viking bought the rights to build the Twin Otters.


From the article:

In February, the company announced the consolidation of Viking Air, Longview Aviation, Pacific Sky Training and De Havilland Canada under the operating brand, De Havilland Aircraft of Canada. The company is owned by Westerkirk Capital, which is owned by billionaire Sherry Brydson.


Thanks for the education! I thought the Twin Otters were still selling.
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:18 am

baje427 wrote:
I think they should make the step and launch the electric version of the classic Dash 8.


"make the step"? have they invented some kind of magical battery that is 70 times denser than lithium-ion?
 
Metchalus
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:54 am

kjeld0d wrote:
baje427 wrote:
I think they should make the step and launch the electric version of the classic Dash 8.


"make the step"? have they invented some kind of magical battery that is 70 times denser than lithium-ion?

They're probably refering to this hybrid electric project.

https://dehavilland.com/en/news/posts/d ... technology
 
yhu
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:22 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
This is a dying company until and unless they can develop a new aircraft. I don't think this will end well. I don't think this is a win for Calgary given who is being attracted. Hope tax dollars didn't go to this.


From what I remember, the Twin Otter -400 series was selling fairly well under Viking. I also see the water bomber having consistent sale stickle in, although it's never been an aircraft with strong sales outside of Canada. There are a lot of 215s getting very long in the tooth, and I think DHC announced a conversion program for them if I'm not mistaken?

The Q400 didn't have a lot of sales left, but I think there is a lot of potential outside of the Q400 line. Especially if they have maintenance and overall facilities here, which the video shows they will.
 
Metchalus
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:43 pm

yhu wrote:
YEGFlyer wrote:
This is a dying company until and unless they can develop a new aircraft. I don't think this will end well. I don't think this is a win for Calgary given who is being attracted. Hope tax dollars didn't go to this.


From what I remember, the Twin Otter -400 series was selling fairly well under Viking. I also see the water bomber having consistent sale stickle in, although it's never been an aircraft with strong sales outside of Canada. There are a lot of 215s getting very long in the tooth, and I think DHC announced a conversion program for them if I'm not mistaken?

The Q400 didn't have a lot of sales left, but I think there is a lot of potential outside of the Q400 line. Especially if they have maintenance and overall facilities here, which the video shows they will.


It doesn't make sense to build an entirely new site just for their existing product lines.

For the amount of interest in the Q400 they might aswell stay at Downsview.

They've gotta be looking at launching something new.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:24 pm

kjeld0d wrote:
baje427 wrote:
I think they should make the step and launch the electric version of the classic Dash 8.


"make the step"? have they invented some kind of magical battery that is 70 times denser than lithium-ion?


For reference, jet fuel has an energy density of about 43 MJ/kg, which is 11.9 kWh/kg. If we assume 40% engine efficiency, that would be a final realized work output of 4.8 kWh/kg.

The current state of the art for lithium ion batteries store about 0.26 kWh/kg at the bare cell level. Assuming 90% combined discharge and motor efficiency, and allowing an extra 15% mass for the structure, interconnects, and cooling of a complete battery pack would give a final realized output of 0.2 kWh/kg.

That would be a ratio of 24 times the effective energy density in favor of liquid fuel.
 
9252fly
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:33 pm

Metchalus wrote:
yhu wrote:
YEGFlyer wrote:
This is a dying company until and unless they can develop a new aircraft. I don't think this will end well. I don't think this is a win for Calgary given who is being attracted. Hope tax dollars didn't go to this.


From what I remember, the Twin Otter -400 series was selling fairly well under Viking. I also see the water bomber having consistent sale stickle in, although it's never been an aircraft with strong sales outside of Canada. There are a lot of 215s getting very long in the tooth, and I think DHC announced a conversion program for them if I'm not mistaken?

The Q400 didn't have a lot of sales left, but I think there is a lot of potential outside of the Q400 line. Especially if they have maintenance and overall facilities here, which the video shows they will.

For the amount of interest in the Q400 they might aswell stay at Downsview.


The Downsview facilty is closed.
 
gmcc
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:48 pm

Wonder if CDHC is available for assignment as an airport code.
 
Metchalus
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:46 pm

Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:50 am

9252fly wrote:
Metchalus wrote:
yhu wrote:

From what I remember, the Twin Otter -400 series was selling fairly well under Viking. I also see the water bomber having consistent sale stickle in, although it's never been an aircraft with strong sales outside of Canada. There are a lot of 215s getting very long in the tooth, and I think DHC announced a conversion program for them if I'm not mistaken?

The Q400 didn't have a lot of sales left, but I think there is a lot of potential outside of the Q400 line. Especially if they have maintenance and overall facilities here, which the video shows they will.

For the amount of interest in the Q400 they might aswell stay at Downsview.


The Downsview facilty is closed.

Ah right. I thought it was still in the process of closing down.
 
yhu
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:03 pm

Metchalus wrote:
9252fly wrote:
Metchalus wrote:
For the amount of interest in the Q400 they might aswell stay at Downsview.


The Downsview facilty is closed.

Ah right. I thought it was still in the process of closing down.


I believe Bombardier are finishing up work on the final globals, as I've seen a couple still doing test flights. The manufacturing facility has build it's last plane of both the Globals and the Dash 8s. So DHC wasn't given much of a choice.

They had a facility in Calgary and one in Victoria, so I'm assuming the choice was to either expand one of those facilities to handle all aircraft or build something from scratch. I don't think Victoria or Calgary (YYC) could handle the Twin Otter, Water Bomber and the Dash 8s. Plus, aren't they working on a new Buffalo or Caribou as well?
 
Skywatcher
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:46 pm

As a cheerleader for Canadian aviation I hope they succeed but the video looks sort of like a "wish list" rather than realistic. There must be around 10 thousand cars in those parking lots. I bet there will be government money coming their way. The politicians must be salivating at the prospect of using the video to get votes!
 
yhu
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:59 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
As a cheerleader for Canadian aviation I hope they succeed but the video looks sort of like a "wish list" rather than realistic. There must be around 10 thousand cars in those parking lots. I bet there will be government money coming their way. The politicians must be salivating at the prospect of using the video to get votes!


I wonder if there is a hope of other companies using the airport? Will it be like Downsview where it was Bombardier only allowed or are they open to other maintenance companies opening up a facility at the airport? With most (if not all) of their aircraft using P&WC engines, could Pratt open an engine overhaul shop? I agree that it seems like a big leap, but the idea is interesting.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Back in 2008, whilst visiting a friend in Toronto, a retired DHC employee, we took a little drive out to the site and also visited a small museum which housed amongst other things a life sized model of the Avro Arrow. Did that also close down with Downsview ?
 
hz747300
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Re: De Havilland to announce new manufacturing complex

Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:09 am

I thought Downsview Airport was closing permanently and converted to a mix-use facility. So whatever DHC, Bombardier, Airbus 220, they can go wherever they want, but they can't stay here. I also agree that to create a new purpose build facility, I would hope that they would have no ideas to generate. Probably the hybrid model is taken up by that other firm which Air Canada itself even invested in, but hybrid technologies seem the logical choice.

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