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yashk
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Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:51 am

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 73524.html

Air India is launching BOM-SFO 3/wk with the following schedule:

AI 179 BOM 14:30 - SFO 17:00
AI 180 SFO 21:00 - BOM 03:40 +2

Air India is resuming BLR-SFO 3/wk with the following schedule:

AI 175 BLR 14:20 - SFO 17:00
AI 176 SFO 21:00 - BLR 04:25 +2

Air India already operates 10/wk DEL-SFO. With 16 weekly flights, SFO will become AI's largest NA city. This is impressive considering AI first launched 3/wk flights to SFO late 2015 whereas EWR/JFK/ORD have been in service for a long time without seeing any expansion.

Air India is also increasing frequency on BOM-LHR by 5/wk, DEL-LHR by 3/wk and AMD-LHR by 1/wk. In total AI will be operating 42 weekly flights from various cities to LHR (an increase of 9/wk). Does anyone know how AI managed to snag these extra Heathrow slots?
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:14 am

Impressive growth. Must be a weird experience for passengers, leaving on a thursday and arriving on a saturday.

AI used to fly from LHR to JFK. Perhaps they still had those slots? Also, perhaps there are some russian LHR slots that now have become available since the start of the Russian war in Ukraine and the following sanctions.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:11 am

All thanks to the new 777-200LRs they leased
 
SkyEye350
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:00 pm

It's gonna be interesting because 3 of their 77Ls are in the horrid AI configuration while the 5 leased ones have the Delta One. In case their is an equipment swap because of typical AI issues then they are definitely going to lose the product advantage.

Regardless I am still awaiting on their fleet decisions. Does anyone know if AI officially abandoned the A350?
 
Vicenza
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:23 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
Impressive growth. Must be a weird experience for passengers, leaving on a thursday and arriving on a saturday.


Why would it be weird when arriving on the second day has always been the case from Europe to Australia and New Zealand?
 
ben175
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:52 am

Vicenza wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
Impressive growth. Must be a weird experience for passengers, leaving on a thursday and arriving on a saturday.


Why would it be weird when arriving on the second day has always been the case from Europe to Australia and New Zealand?


Also common on majority of North America to Australia/New Zealand and some overnight Asian flights.
 
blooc350
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:20 am

Tata is really pushing them to become a global player
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:55 am

blooc350 wrote:
Tata is really pushing them to become a global player


Yeah well the US can’t compete because they can’t fly over Russian airspace…..
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:42 am

where are these slots coming from? vistara??

interesting that BOMLHR will see an increase in capacity for NW22 just as AC re-launches fifth freedom to BOM via LHR once again.
 
avier
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:20 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
where are these slots coming from? vistara??

interesting that BOMLHR will see an increase in capacity for NW22 just as AC re-launches fifth freedom to BOM via LHR once again.

Also BA seems to have a third flight on BOM-LHR for this winter, as BA134/135 on A350.
 
3D101CA
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:27 pm

Air India has grown quite a lot at SFO since 2015. Very impressive. Didn't think they would ever serve DEL, BOM, and BLR all together at once from SFO.

SEA and LAX would also work well for Air India as well. Huge unserved market potential.
 
portola2727
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:09 pm

3D101CA wrote:
Air India has grown quite a lot at SFO since 2015. Very impressive. Didn't think they would ever serve DEL, BOM, and BLR all together at once from SFO.

SEA and LAX would also work well for Air India as well. Huge unserved market potential.

DEL-LAX is definitely in the cards when AI gets new aircraft with the range.
 
B747forever
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:02 pm

Didn’t realize that the SFO market must be that much bigger than LAX. 16x weekly flights to SFO while nothing to LAX.
 
HTCone
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:16 pm

B747forever wrote:
Didn’t realize that the SFO market must be that much bigger than LAX. 16x weekly flights to SFO while nothing to LAX.


Big tech and related support at both ends. Lots of related college overlap too.
 
portola2727
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:16 pm

HTCone wrote:
B747forever wrote:
Didn’t realize that the SFO market must be that much bigger than LAX. 16x weekly flights to SFO while nothing to LAX.


Big tech and related support at both ends. Lots of related college overlap too.

I feel that once the LAX route opens up, most SoCal students will fly to LAX instead of SFO. Most Indian students prefer nonstop options from India to the US so, a flight from DEL-LAX should split traffic from SFO to LAX.
 
ramprat320
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:16 pm

Air India is really capitalizing on the government of India’s “neutral” stance on Russia which allows them to continue to fly through Russian airspace while American and Canadian carriers cannot. I wonder if and when Canada/USA will simply ban all flights entering from Russian Airspace creating a level playing field again.
 
sabby
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:42 am

ramprat320 wrote:
Air India is really capitalizing on the government of India’s “neutral” stance on Russia which allows them to continue to fly through Russian airspace while American and Canadian carriers cannot. I wonder if and when Canada/USA will simply ban all flights entering from Russian Airspace creating a level playing field again.


On what grounds ? Iran airspace has also been avoided by the US airilnes for a long time while many other airlines overfly them.
 
atal17
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:13 am

ramprat320 wrote:
Air India is really capitalizing on the government of India’s “neutral” stance on Russia which allows them to continue to fly through Russian airspace while American and Canadian carriers cannot. I wonder if and when Canada/USA will simply ban all flights entering from Russian Airspace creating a level playing field again.


The last part is only useful if you want to create an unnecessary diplomatic spat. USA/Canada will not want to unnecessarily antagonize India for no reason.
 
hl8208
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:47 am

portola2727 wrote:
HTCone wrote:
B747forever wrote:
Didn’t realize that the SFO market must be that much bigger than LAX. 16x weekly flights to SFO while nothing to LAX.


Big tech and related support at both ends. Lots of related college overlap too.

I feel that once the LAX route opens up, most SoCal students will fly to LAX instead of SFO. Most Indian students prefer nonstop options from India to the US so, a flight from DEL-LAX should split traffic from SFO to LAX.


Much larger (and wealthier?) diaspora in the Bay Area combined with tech. I recall reading somewhere that India-bound passengers from LAX tend to be older and VFR. If this is the case, IMO LAX would be a vanity route for AI as I don't see how the economics would work on a route almost as long as LAX-SIN. Otherwise, they would have actually started LAX in 2017 when they initially announced it, but chose to expand SFO-DEL and start IAD.
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:54 am

Wondering out loud, given Air India has apparently had success at SFO, longer term, would they consider adding HYD or MAA? Both Hyderabad and Chennai also have a lot of tech industry as well. If they cooperated more closely with UA, could see these down the road, maybe UA does one and Air India, the other.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:51 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
blooc350 wrote:
Tata is really pushing them to become a global player


Yeah well the US can’t compete because they can’t fly over Russian airspace…..


An airplane flying a routing (without landing, of course) of SFO-CTS-ICN-BLR is only 4.7% longer and it flies along Aleuts and avoids the Kurils than the great circle distance.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-BLR,SFO-CTS-ICN-BLR

Image

Air India can't have that much of an advantage over United, or a one-stop carrier like KAL,JAL, or ANA?
 
berari
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:59 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
Impressive growth. Must be a weird experience for passengers, leaving on a thursday and arriving on a saturday.

AI used to fly from LHR to JFK. Perhaps they still had those slots? Also, perhaps there are some russian LHR slots that now have become available since the start of the Russian war in Ukraine and the following sanctions.


I flew this route as a kid!

blooc350 wrote:
Tata is really pushing them to become a global player


Maybe Tata is also consolidating all of its corporate travel onto AI, which is commanding these flights given the presence it has in tech.
 
subramak1
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:23 pm

SkyEye350 wrote:
It's gonna be interesting because 3 of their 77Ls are in the horrid AI configuration while the 5 leased ones have the Delta One. In case their is an equipment swap because of typical AI issues then they are definitely going to lose the product advantage.

Regardless I am still awaiting on their fleet decisions. Does anyone know if AI officially abandoned the A350?


I am sure they have done their homework. I read in another thread that since the take over by Tata's their mothballed fleet is slowly getting reactivated. The Tata group FSC(AI +Vistara) capacity in BOM MAA/HYD is now as much as Jet airways was at its peak. I am hoping they can sustain this turnaround.

Best, Subramanian
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:31 pm

So why does the US allow any airline to use Russian airspace to fly to and from the US? If a US flagged carrier can't use the space, why give a foreign airline an advantage over the domestic ones on the route?
 
subramak1
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:47 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
So why does the US allow any airline to use Russian airspace to fly to and from the US? If a US flagged carrier can't use the space, why give a foreign airline an advantage over the domestic ones on the route?


I suspect that doing something like that would violate bilateral air treaties. In this case, I suspect as much as US banning their airlines from using Russian airspace, Russia has done the same to aircraft from EU, US. So Indians would argue that US has no locus standi to institute such a ban. For US, I suspect the only market to be impacted significantly by Russian air space ban would be to India and from north east to China. For such a small portion of the traffic it does not make sense to provoke a tiff with two large countries.

Best, Subramanian
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:05 am

WorldFlier wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
blooc350 wrote:
Tata is really pushing them to become a global player


Yeah well the US can’t compete because they can’t fly over Russian airspace…..


An airplane flying a routing (without landing, of course) of SFO-CTS-ICN-BLR is only 4.7% longer and it flies along Aleuts and avoids the Kurils than the great circle distance.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-BLR,SFO-CTS-ICN-BLR

Image

Air India can't have that much of an advantage over United, or a one-stop carrier like KAL,JAL, or ANA?


At the extreme end of an aircraft’s performance, 400 miles makes a big difference. Your proposed routing over Japan is longer than LAX-SIN (which United quickly cancelled as they were taking too much of a payload penalty) and JFK-AKL (which seem NZ to be struggling with, taking a larger than expected payload penalty).

I doubt that United could operate SFO-BLR (overflying Japan) with an economic payload on a 789, and if they could they would probably already be operating it.
 
voxkel
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:14 am

AI was also contemplating BOM-JFK nonstop right? Are they just waiting until they get the entire fleet?
 
hl8208
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:20 am

http://airline-updates.blogspot.com/2018/11/my-analysis-is-lax-del-viable-for-air.html

One blogger's analysis that provides insight into 1) why SFO is getting the love that it is, and 2) why LAX is not feasible for AI.
 
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Chasensfo
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:56 am

I find it interesting that AI first tried out LAX (DEL-FRA-LAX) from I think 2004-2008, but left never to return. Then they came to SFO in 2015, remained one of the only operational long-haul carriers during the pandemic, and now are up to 3 cities and up to 3x flights daily once these services begin. With the exception of Aer Lingus who returned to SFO prior to LAX (though they also started LAX well before SFO), it is rather rare for established carriers (not new ones like French Bee) to choose to grow SFO like this before even starting LAX.

Etihad was an Indian through-flight that cleared customs in AUH, allowing both street access on arrival to pax and usage of Concourse A well before customs opened in the early morning. Despite this and at least a 1 year headstart on Air India, just at 3x weekly AI quickly siphoned traffic and the route ended by 31OCT15. To go from not being able to support 2 carriers to UA and AI both flying to multiple cities in India from SFO each day really feels like the perfect combination of tech demands/an exploding Indian demographic (which was already large in the South Bay and Foster City), fuel-efficient ULH aircraft, and a willingness of pax to sit in economy for 15+ hours. After a slow start with Jet Airways failed BOM-PVG-SFO, King Fisher failing before starting flights, Etihad's short-lived attempt, etc, it is nice to see both this expansion and routes like BLR-SEA for AA coming to fruition.
 
3D101CA
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:08 am

Even with AI and UA flying to India together at one point from SFO, EK still maintained SFO service and still seems to be doing well.

If EK can sustain SFO (even with AI increasing service to three cities in India), then what went wrong for EY? I understand that AI launching DEL-SFO in 2015 was a factor for AUH-SFO ending, was two gulf carriers at SFO (EY and EK) just too much?

It's suprising to see a Gulf carrier like EY end SFO because of AI when EK continues to stay in the SFO market.

EK still flies an A380 to SFO, despite the competition capacity isn't being downgraded despite nonstop flights between India and SFO existing.
 
birdup
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:10 am

Besides the reasons given, SFO is a bigger hub for United than LAX, so Air India ought to be able to get more feed via codeshares than they would at LAX.
 
portola2727
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:27 am

hl8208 wrote:
http://airline-updates.blogspot.com/2018/11/my-analysis-is-lax-del-viable-for-air.html

One blogger's analysis that provides insight into 1) why SFO is getting the love that it is, and 2) why LAX is not feasible for AI.

Funny that this source is very outdated at this point. EK/QR/SQ are the main LA-India players right now considering CX/CZ/EY/CA are pretty much done at the moment. India-Europe-US works mostly for the East Coast since West Coast schedules either absolutely suck(require long layovers and multiple connections) or are very expensive. Part of the reason why SQ had a bang this summer was because they kept prices low compared to EK/QR which charged exorbitant amounts of money for US-India flights. I'm going to place a hot take here and say that AI will be making bang if they launch DEL-LAX cause it's 1) nonstop and 2) not many competitors compared to 2017/2018. I like how no one talks about the fact that AI wanted to launch DEL-LAX,DEL-DFW in 2018 only to realize that most of their planes were grounded, there were very few ULH capable planes in their fleet, and that their finances absolutely sucked.
 
VTORD
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:13 am

3D101CA wrote:
Even with AI and UA flying to India together at one point from SFO, EK still maintained SFO service and still seems to be doing well.

If EK can sustain SFO (even with AI increasing service to three cities in India), then what went wrong for EY? I understand that AI launching DEL-SFO in 2015 was a factor for AUH-SFO ending, was two gulf carriers at SFO (EY and EK) just too much?

It's suprising to see a Gulf carrier like EY end SFO because of AI when EK continues to stay in the SFO market.

EK still flies an A380 to SFO, despite the competition capacity isn't being downgraded despite nonstop flights between India and SFO existing.

Purely in the Indian context EK has a larger pax pool DXB-XXX than EY has on AUH-XXX so when AI entered the market and there was an adjustment on SFO-XXX, EY took a bigger hit than EK so to say. Also for the same reason, EK probably has a larger pool of pax to carry to MENA and Southern Africa than EY. And then EY went and did all that Etihad Alliance nonsense where they overplayed their hand with investments like 9W.
 
sfojvjets
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:47 am

3D101CA wrote:
Even with AI and UA flying to India together at one point from SFO, EK still maintained SFO service and still seems to be doing well.

If EK can sustain SFO (even with AI increasing service to three cities in India), then what went wrong for EY? I understand that AI launching DEL-SFO in 2015 was a factor for AUH-SFO ending, was two gulf carriers at SFO (EY and EK) just too much?

It's suprising to see a Gulf carrier like EY end SFO because of AI when EK continues to stay in the SFO market.

EK still flies an A380 to SFO, despite the competition capacity isn't being downgraded despite nonstop flights between India and SFO existing.

It has much to do with frequency, capacity, and network breadth–something that both QR and EK excel at when compared to EY who is now smaller than ever (though also more tenable and profitable than ever).

For the longest time, EK wanted to add a second daily SFO frequency but was rejected due to a lack of capacity on the A Gates during evening rush hour. Emirates was supposedly so pissed at the rejection that they threatened to add flights to SJC instead. Obviously, that never materialized. However, it highlights the importance of SFO to EK's network even with the competition of nonstop SFO-India service since this situation happened some years after Air India's entrance into the SFO market.

Another important thing to remember is that connecting from an intl flight to a domestic flight within India has historically been quite difficult and almost unfeasible–it's definitely not as pleasant as connecting thru the massive Gulf hubs that were specifically made for transit pax. So Emirates still has quite a large Indian market of secondary cities to fall back on since they aren't directly connected to SFO. Flying one-stop via the Gulf is really the only sensible option when it comes to the smaller tier 2 and tier 3 Indian cities that don't have nonstops to the US.
 
portola2727
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:38 am

sfojvjets wrote:
3D101CA wrote:
Even with AI and UA flying to India together at one point from SFO, EK still maintained SFO service and still seems to be doing well.

If EK can sustain SFO (even with AI increasing service to three cities in India), then what went wrong for EY? I understand that AI launching DEL-SFO in 2015 was a factor for AUH-SFO ending, was two gulf carriers at SFO (EY and EK) just too much?

It's suprising to see a Gulf carrier like EY end SFO because of AI when EK continues to stay in the SFO market.

EK still flies an A380 to SFO, despite the competition capacity isn't being downgraded despite nonstop flights between India and SFO existing.

It has much to do with frequency, capacity, and network breadth–something that both QR and EK excel at when compared to EY who is now smaller than ever (though also more tenable and profitable than ever).

For the longest time, EK wanted to add a second daily SFO frequency but was rejected due to a lack of capacity on the A Gates during evening rush hour. Emirates was supposedly so pissed at the rejection that they threatened to add flights to SJC instead. Obviously, that never materialized. However, it highlights the importance of SFO to EK's network even with the competition of nonstop SFO-India service since this situation happened some years after Air India's entrance into the SFO market.

Another important thing to remember is that connecting from an intl flight to a domestic flight within India has historically been quite difficult and almost unfeasible–it's definitely not as pleasant as connecting thru the massive Gulf hubs that were specifically made for transit pax. So Emirates still has quite a large Indian market of secondary cities to fall back on since they aren't directly connected to SFO. Flying one-stop via the Gulf is really the only sensible option when it comes to the smaller tier 2 and tier 3 Indian cities that don't have nonstops to the US.

I really don't get the hype for EK. Sure it's got a giant route network to secondary cities in India but it charges exorbitant amounts of money to fly. On a good day, you can find a ticket for $1600 R/T and on average $1700 R/T per person. These prices are usually a couple months out but at the same time, SQ is offering $1000 R/T during August/September and SQ has a growing route network to secondary cities in India. What made AI/UA so successful on SFO-DEL is the fact that many North Indian cities are connected by flight at DEL. Most domestic flights at DEL during UA867's arrival were connecting to onward destinations in North India while the first flight to MAA(my city) was at 6:00 AM at the earliest.
 
sfojvjets
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:22 am

portola2727 wrote:
I really don't get the hype for EK. Sure it's got a giant route network to secondary cities in India but it charges exorbitant amounts of money to fly. On a good day, you can find a ticket for $1600 R/T and on average $1700 R/T per person. These prices are usually a couple months out but at the same time, SQ is offering $1000 R/T during August/September and SQ has a growing route network to secondary cities in India. What made AI/UA so successful on SFO-DEL is the fact that many North Indian cities are connected by flight at DEL. Most domestic flights at DEL during UA867's arrival were connecting to onward destinations in North India while the first flight to MAA(my city) was at 6:00 AM at the earliest.


OK - but that seems very very specific to whatever route you are looking at. I generally find that EK prices are on par with competition, sometimes tending to be on the higher side. You are citing SQ as a lower fare option, but that is the opposite of my experience. This goes to show that you can't generalize. It varies wildly from airport pair to airport pair.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:41 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
So why does the US allow any airline to use Russian airspace to fly to and from the US? If a US flagged carrier can't use the space, why give a foreign airline an advantage over the domestic ones on the route?


And what international treaty is that violating? US carriers not being permitted to use Russian airspace is a decision entirely by the US government. Your suggestion is one of blatant protectionism...wanting a level-playing field only when it suits US carriers. Are you seriously suggesting that the US imposes sanctions on Chinese, Indian or any other country's carriers because of a policy decision that they, themselves, made? US airlines are quite free to choose to go around the said airspace and if they don't wish to do so that is not a foreign carrier's problem.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:07 am

portola2727 wrote:
I really don't get the hype for EK. Sure it's got a giant route network to secondary cities in India but it charges exorbitant amounts of money to fly. On a good day, you can find a ticket for $1600 R/T and on average $1700 R/T per person. These prices are usually a couple months out but at the same time, SQ is offering $1000 R/T during August/September and SQ has a growing route network to secondary cities in India. What made AI/UA so successful on SFO-DEL is the fact that many North Indian cities are connected by flight at DEL. Most domestic flights at DEL during UA867's arrival were connecting to onward destinations in North India while the first flight to MAA(my city) was at 6:00 AM at the earliest.


You are being very selectively general with your comment. EK charges what the market will pay, and your implication that SQ is considerably cheaper is very misleading.....SQ are most certainly not the cheapest airline in general on any route. If you find EK prices too high, then simply don't fly them. Equally, I don't see your references of AI/UA success on SFO-DEL as being relevant to your complaints on EK pricing.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 9035
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:36 am

Does AI still have rights to fly LHR-JFK, thought that died a long time ago?
 
VTORD
Posts: 866
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:49 pm

Vicenza wrote:
portola2727 wrote:
I really don't get the hype for EK. Sure it's got a giant route network to secondary cities in India but it charges exorbitant amounts of money to fly. On a good day, you can find a ticket for $1600 R/T and on average $1700 R/T per person. These prices are usually a couple months out but at the same time, SQ is offering $1000 R/T during August/September and SQ has a growing route network to secondary cities in India. What made AI/UA so successful on SFO-DEL is the fact that many North Indian cities are connected by flight at DEL. Most domestic flights at DEL during UA867's arrival were connecting to onward destinations in North India while the first flight to MAA(my city) was at 6:00 AM at the earliest.


You are being very selectively general with your comment. EK charges what the market will pay, and your implication that SQ is considerably cheaper is very misleading.....SQ are most certainly not the cheapest airline in general on any route.

I would definitely agree that SQ in general is a more expensive carrier. You could potentially find cheap(er) SQ fares via "fareeagle.com" or whatever but from the SQ website, good luck getting a $1,000 RT to India. I just re-booked travel from UA on EK due to suspension of EWR-BOM and a 1-way ORD-BOM on EK came in at about $900 whereas AI was charging $1,353 for the same dates.
 
kaitak
Posts: 10203
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:00 pm

Great to see AI bouncing back; I've always felt that one of the biggest tragedies of AI is that it has such massive potential, yet - for various reasons, never achieved it; the flag carrier of the world's largest democracy, with all the growth India has seen over the last 20 years, should be many times larger than it now is. Hopefully, the best is ahead for it.

A few months back, around the time of Farnborough I think, there was talk of AI placing a large A350 order; that rumour died, but has it just gone silent because negotiations are still ongoing, or is it dead? They certainly need more long-haul capacity; I'd have thought the 789 would be a more obvious choice, but the A350 would be a very good fit too, with the potential to order -1000s in the future, as 77W replacements.
 
portola2727
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:12 am

Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:45 pm

VTORD wrote:
Vicenza wrote:
portola2727 wrote:
I really don't get the hype for EK. Sure it's got a giant route network to secondary cities in India but it charges exorbitant amounts of money to fly. On a good day, you can find a ticket for $1600 R/T and on average $1700 R/T per person. These prices are usually a couple months out but at the same time, SQ is offering $1000 R/T during August/September and SQ has a growing route network to secondary cities in India. What made AI/UA so successful on SFO-DEL is the fact that many North Indian cities are connected by flight at DEL. Most domestic flights at DEL during UA867's arrival were connecting to onward destinations in North India while the first flight to MAA(my city) was at 6:00 AM at the earliest.


You are being very selectively general with your comment. EK charges what the market will pay, and your implication that SQ is considerably cheaper is very misleading.....SQ are most certainly not the cheapest airline in general on any route.

I would definitely agree that SQ in general is a more expensive carrier. You could potentially find cheap(er) SQ fares via "fareeagle.com" or whatever but from the SQ website, good luck getting a $1,000 RT to India. I just re-booked travel from UA on EK due to suspension of EWR-BOM and a 1-way ORD-BOM on EK came in at about $900 whereas AI was charging $1,353 for the same dates.

Well I'll be fair here, I flew LAX-MAA R/T on SQ on August 2022 and came back September 2022. I booked my ticket around March on Singaporeair.com and the ticket did come to be $1000 R/T. Maybe my route pair was on the cheaper side when I booked it as I paid $1,250 for my mom's ticket around April/May 2022. It was still cheaper than the $1280 QR was charging or the $1700 EK was charging when I was trying to find tickets to India in March.
 
SonaSounds
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:06 pm

hl8208 wrote:
portola2727 wrote:
HTCone wrote:

Big tech and related support at both ends. Lots of related college overlap too.

I feel that once the LAX route opens up, most SoCal students will fly to LAX instead of SFO. Most Indian students prefer nonstop options from India to the US so, a flight from DEL-LAX should split traffic from SFO to LAX.


Much larger (and wealthier?) diaspora in the Bay Area combined with tech. I recall reading somewhere that India-bound passengers from LAX tend to be older and VFR. If this is the case, IMO LAX would be a vanity route for AI as I don't see how the economics would work on a route almost as long as LAX-SIN. Otherwise, they would have actually started LAX in 2017 when they initially announced it, but chose to expand SFO-DEL and start IAD.


For perspective, here is how the USA West Coast-India market broke down in CY2019 by PDEWs:

SFO - 1,405
LAX - 558
SEA - 333
PHX - 105
DEN - 73
PDX - 59
LAS - 40
SAN - 36
SLC - 23



Or to really drive home how much bigger the Bay Area market is to India...

SFO - 1,405
All other large West Coast Cities - 1,227
 
luckyone
Posts: 4709
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:16 pm

Vicenza wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
So why does the US allow any airline to use Russian airspace to fly to and from the US? If a US flagged carrier can't use the space, why give a foreign airline an advantage over the domestic ones on the route?


And what international treaty is that violating? US carriers not being permitted to use Russian airspace is a decision entirely by the US government. Your suggestion is one of blatant protectionism...wanting a level-playing field only when it suits US carriers. Are you seriously suggesting that the US imposes sanctions on Chinese, Indian or any other country's carriers because of a policy decision that they, themselves, made? US airlines are quite free to choose to go around the said airspace and if they don't wish to do so that is not a foreign carrier's problem.

It's not without precedent, though. We can quibble about the merits elsewhere, but Saudi Arabia (and others) for decades denied overflight rights for Israeli aircraft and for flights to and from Israel. It took a common Iranian enemy to unwind that.
 
hohd
Posts: 1152
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:04 pm

birdup wrote:
Besides the reasons given, SFO is a bigger hub for United than LAX, so Air India ought to be able to get more feed via codeshares than they would at LAX.


UA is notoriously uncooperative carrier to work with. They may be in the same alliance, but for UA - AI (and TK, SQ etc..) are all competitors so no code shares or even interline fares (they may interline but only on full fares). Only positive is that miles can be earned and redeemed on AI and UA. It just so happens on all prime routes where UA has a hub, AI passenger profile is also strong. The only other cities where AI can make an impact, which are non-UA hubs are DFW or ATL, where India based travel is strong.
 
superjeff
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:35 pm

hohd wrote:
birdup wrote:
Besides the reasons given, SFO is a bigger hub for United than LAX, so Air India ought to be able to get more feed via codeshares than they would at LAX.


UA is notoriously uncooperative carrier to work with. They may be in the same alliance, but for UA - AI (and TK, SQ etc..) are all competitors so no code shares or even interline fares (they may interline but only on full fares). Only positive is that miles can be earned and redeemed on AI and UA. It just so happens on all prime routes where UA has a hub, AI passenger profile is also strong. The only other cities where AI can make an impact, which are non-UA hubs are DFW or ATL, where India based travel is strong.



I'm in DFW, and we keep hearing rumors that AI is thinking about coming here, even with IAH just 250 miles (400 km) down the road. Dallas is a strong telecom, computer, and banking center and there are large numbers of Indians here working for many of these companies. I am formerly worked for one of the biggest banks in the world here, and about 80% or more of the people working in our facility were Indian nationals, on H1B/H2B visas. My own home neighborhood has a plethora of Indian businesses (restaurants, grocery stores, clothing stores, etc.), and all of those people do travel back to their hometowns periodically (although, frankly, I think most of them travel with EK or QR, and in Economy).

If Tata can get AI's reputation back, they could do well here.
 
User avatar
Boeing757100
Posts: 1405
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: Air India launches BOM-SFO, resumes BLR-SFO and increases LHR frequency

Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:42 am

SonaSounds wrote:
hl8208 wrote:
portola2727 wrote:
I feel that once the LAX route opens up, most SoCal students will fly to LAX instead of SFO. Most Indian students prefer nonstop options from India to the US so, a flight from DEL-LAX should split traffic from SFO to LAX.


Much larger (and wealthier?) diaspora in the Bay Area combined with tech. I recall reading somewhere that India-bound passengers from LAX tend to be older and VFR. If this is the case, IMO LAX would be a vanity route for AI as I don't see how the economics would work on a route almost as long as LAX-SIN. Otherwise, they would have actually started LAX in 2017 when they initially announced it, but chose to expand SFO-DEL and start IAD.


For perspective, here is how the USA West Coast-India market broke down in CY2019 by PDEWs:

SFO - 1,405
LAX - 558
SEA - 333
PHX - 105
DEN - 73
PDX - 59
LAS - 40
SAN - 36
SLC - 23



Or to really drive home how much bigger the Bay Area market is to India...

SFO - 1,405
All other large West Coast Cities - 1,227

How do you get PDEW for international routes? I've tried finding online but there doesn't seem to be a reliable way to. Only for domestic flights within the US.

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