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ZK-NBT
Posts: 9379
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:27 pm

NZ516 wrote:
anstar wrote:
If Australia with its geographic size and population can't make it work with 3 airlines I'm not sure NZ can.


I believe they are doing it ok in Australia. They really have 4 airlines though Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar and REX.


QF and JQ are 1. Bonza
 
ZKNZR
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:37 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:46 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
flyguy1 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

This is an unusual route hopefully they can get enough cargo to Jakarta to make it work.


I think DWC works just like DXB, but with cargo. They can collect cargo from all over Europe, USA etc, and route it to CGK, and AKL.


Always good to see more aircraft including freighters. Remember EK had 3 wide bodies a day AKl-SYD/MEL/BNE which with the 77W/345 had huge freight capacity, the A388 not so much. This time with the A380 returning non stop to DXB-AKL replacing the 77W via KUL.


Long time lurker here, finally joined to contribute! I believe EK organised this freighter service because of the switch from 77W to A388 in December and reduction in freight capability on the latter given direct service. Good to see their ongoing commitment to the market generally.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1603
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:27 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
anstar wrote:
If Australia with its geographic size and population can't make it work with 3 airlines I'm not sure NZ can.


I believe they are doing it ok in Australia. They really have 4 airlines though Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar and REX.


QF and JQ are 1. Bonza


Although they are the same owner QF and JQ they have their own individual AOC. Plus they look very different visually at the airport so I count them as two airlines and if Bonza succeed it will be 5 airlines. But Australia is a far bigger and wealthier market than NZ is so it not a good comparison. We could include Air North as well they operate E jets to make 6.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4763
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:00 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
... Jetstar have shown a solid commitment to the New Zealand market, especially by trying to compete on regional routes with Dash 8s, but the returns just aren’t there. That should be an indication of how large the market is for a new entrant.

Maybe the JQ Dash 8 offering was too small (while the A320 was too big) and something in the middle (ATR-72, 717, A220, E2, etc) would have had better economics, but JQ didn't have those aircraft to play with here.

I'd also add that what's a viable level of return for one carrier might be different to another - e.g. NZ dropping WAG, and 3C picking it up and sustaining it. Just because JQ pulled out doesn't mean it's unviable for all.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1603
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:56 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
... Jetstar have shown a solid commitment to the New Zealand market, especially by trying to compete on regional routes with Dash 8s, but the returns just aren’t there. That should be an indication of how large the market is for a new entrant.

Maybe the JQ Dash 8 offering was too small (while the A320 was too big) and something in the middle (ATR-72, 717, A220, E2, etc) would have had better economics, but JQ didn't have those aircraft to play with here.

I'd also add that what's a viable level of return for one carrier might be different to another - e.g. NZ dropping WAG, and 3C picking it up and sustaining it. Just because JQ pulled out doesn't mean it's unviable for all.


True and other towns have managed to keep services since Air NZ pulled out eg WHK, PPQ, KAT and WSZ which shows they can work with a lower cost base operator.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9379
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:01 pm

ZKNZR wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
flyguy1 wrote:

I think DWC works just like DXB, but with cargo. They can collect cargo from all over Europe, USA etc, and route it to CGK, and AKL.


Always good to see more aircraft including freighters. Remember EK had 3 wide bodies a day AKl-SYD/MEL/BNE which with the 77W/345 had huge freight capacity, the A388 not so much. This time with the A380 returning non stop to DXB-AKL replacing the 77W via KUL.


Long time lurker here, finally joined to contribute! I believe EK organised this freighter service because of the switch from 77W to A388 in December and reduction in freight capability on the latter given direct service. Good to see their ongoing commitment to the market generally.


Welcome. Yes I would say so, not sure we will see an additional pax service anytime soon then.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9379
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:30 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

I believe they are doing it ok in Australia. They really have 4 airlines though Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar and REX.


QF and JQ are 1. Bonza


Although they are the same owner QF and JQ they have their own individual AOC. Plus they look very different visually at the airport so I count them as two airlines and if Bonza succeed it will be 5 airlines. But Australia is a far bigger and wealthier market than NZ is so it not a good comparison. We could include Air North as well they operate E jets to make 6.


JQ is a wholly owned subsidiary of QF, 2 seperate AOCs, they serve different markets but there is overlap. Being the same group I would myself count them as 1 but yes they are also different in order to cover more of the overall market.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4887
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:27 am

xiaotung wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
anstar wrote:
If Australia with its geographic size and population can't make it work with 3 airlines I'm not sure NZ can.


I believe they are doing it ok in Australia. They really have 4 airlines though Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar and REX.


That was what everyone thought but then the pandemic happened and changed the landscape of the Australian aviation sector. With Bonza launching, Australia will soon have 5 major airlines with jet services. Maybe New Zealand could do one extra as well.


Exactly, there is room for change. Just likely requires some regulation around it, same as the Foodstuff / Woolworths issues we have in New Zealand.

If the government was to sell NZ off, fully privatised it. Then I think that would open up the market more, right now any investor looking at it.! See’s an well protected partly government owned legacy airline in the way.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1603
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:18 pm

ZKNZR wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
flyguy1 wrote:

I think DWC works just like DXB, but with cargo. They can collect cargo from all over Europe, USA etc, and route it to CGK, and AKL.


Always good to see more aircraft including freighters. Remember EK had 3 wide bodies a day AKl-SYD/MEL/BNE which with the 77W/345 had huge freight capacity, the A388 not so much. This time with the A380 returning non stop to DXB-AKL replacing the 77W via KUL.


Long time lurker here, finally joined to contribute! I believe EK organised this freighter service because of the switch from 77W to A388 in December and reduction in freight capability on the latter given direct service. Good to see their ongoing commitment to the market generally.


EK must see some value in providing this long freighter run. This will be the first non stop scheduled service from Auckland to Jakarta ever. It will be a big market to tap into most likely with the export of NZ primary produce to Indonesia the world's 4th most populated country. I notice that Emirates Sky Cargo also service Jakarta to MEL and SYD. Good to see a new route open even though it's just cargo at this stage.
I wonder if EK will bring back their AKL-DPS- DXB 77W service they had pre covid. This new service covers the same two cargo markets of course.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9379
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:11 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZKNZR wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Always good to see more aircraft including freighters. Remember EK had 3 wide bodies a day AKl-SYD/MEL/BNE which with the 77W/345 had huge freight capacity, the A388 not so much. This time with the A380 returning non stop to DXB-AKL replacing the 77W via KUL.


Long time lurker here, finally joined to contribute! I believe EK organised this freighter service because of the switch from 77W to A388 in December and reduction in freight capability on the latter given direct service. Good to see their ongoing commitment to the market generally.


EK must see some value in providing this long freighter run. This will be the first non stop scheduled service from Auckland to Jakarta ever. It will be a big market to tap into most likely with the export of NZ primary produce to Indonesia the world's 4th most populated country. I notice that Emirates Sky Cargo also service Jakarta to MEL and SYD. Good to see a new route open even though it's just cargo at this stage.
I wonder if EK will bring back their AKL-DPS- DXB 77W service they had pre covid. This new service covers the same two cargo markets of course.


I’m sure this service will be about the DXB and beyond market, but at the same time Carry some freight to CGK.

I’m not convinced the pax service via DPS will return, we will see In time.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3584
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:20 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZKNZR wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Always good to see more aircraft including freighters. Remember EK had 3 wide bodies a day AKl-SYD/MEL/BNE which with the 77W/345 had huge freight capacity, the A388 not so much. This time with the A380 returning non stop to DXB-AKL replacing the 77W via KUL.


Long time lurker here, finally joined to contribute! I believe EK organised this freighter service because of the switch from 77W to A388 in December and reduction in freight capability on the latter given direct service. Good to see their ongoing commitment to the market generally.


EK must see some value in providing this long freighter run. This will be the first non stop scheduled service from Auckland to Jakarta ever. It will be a big market to tap into most likely with the export of NZ primary produce to Indonesia the world's 4th most populated country. I notice that Emirates Sky Cargo also service Jakarta to MEL and SYD. Good to see a new route open even though it's just cargo at this stage.
I wonder if EK will bring back their AKL-DPS- DXB 77W service they had pre covid. This new service covers the same two cargo markets of course.

I don't know that DPS was ever a huge freight transit market. CGK definitely is as Java is the most populous island in Indonesia.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9379
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:14 am

tullamarine wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZKNZR wrote:

Long time lurker here, finally joined to contribute! I believe EK organised this freighter service because of the switch from 77W to A388 in December and reduction in freight capability on the latter given direct service. Good to see their ongoing commitment to the market generally.


EK must see some value in providing this long freighter run. This will be the first non stop scheduled service from Auckland to Jakarta ever. It will be a big market to tap into most likely with the export of NZ primary produce to Indonesia the world's 4th most populated country. I notice that Emirates Sky Cargo also service Jakarta to MEL and SYD. Good to see a new route open even though it's just cargo at this stage.
I wonder if EK will bring back their AKL-DPS- DXB 77W service they had pre covid. This new service covers the same two cargo markets of course.

I don't know that DPS was ever a huge freight transit market. CGK definitely is as Java is the most populous island in Indonesia.


I wonder if using CGK has anything to do with freight traffic rights? They flew via DPS before presumably they could pick up freight on the AKL-DPS leg?
 
NZ516
Posts: 1603
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:09 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZKNZR wrote:

Long time lurker here, finally joined to contribute! I believe EK organised this freighter service because of the switch from 77W to A388 in December and reduction in freight capability on the latter given direct service. Good to see their ongoing commitment to the market generally.


EK must see some value in providing this long freighter run. This will be the first non stop scheduled service from Auckland to Jakarta ever. It will be a big market to tap into most likely with the export of NZ primary produce to Indonesia the world's 4th most populated country. I notice that Emirates Sky Cargo also service Jakarta to MEL and SYD. Good to see a new route open even though it's just cargo at this stage.
I wonder if EK will bring back their AKL-DPS- DXB 77W service they had pre covid. This new service covers the same two cargo markets of course.


I’m sure this service will be about the DXB and beyond market, but at the same time Carry some freight to CGK.

I’m not convinced the pax service via DPS will return, we will see In time.


Will be good for the NZ services AKL-DPS- if EK doesn't return as they kind of flooded the market with so many seats.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:28 am

Let's hope in the not too distant future there is a supplementary passenger service via intermediary point with full traffic rights- be it DPS or BKK or another point.
 
zkncj
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:38 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

EK must see some value in providing this long freighter run. This will be the first non stop scheduled service from Auckland to Jakarta ever. It will be a big market to tap into most likely with the export of NZ primary produce to Indonesia the world's 4th most populated country. I notice that Emirates Sky Cargo also service Jakarta to MEL and SYD. Good to see a new route open even though it's just cargo at this stage.
I wonder if EK will bring back their AKL-DPS- DXB 77W service they had pre covid. This new service covers the same two cargo markets of course.


I’m sure this service will be about the DXB and beyond market, but at the same time Carry some freight to CGK.

I’m not convinced the pax service via DPS will return, we will see In time.


Will be good for the NZ services AKL-DPS- if EK doesn't return as they kind of flooded the market with so many seats.


Not sure the EK AKL-DPS service was too high yielding? You often were able to pickup return fares in J for $2000, and not much more in first.

I was about to do it, then covid hit…
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:43 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

I’m sure this service will be about the DXB and beyond market, but at the same time Carry some freight to CGK.

I’m not convinced the pax service via DPS will return, we will see In time.


Will be good for the NZ services AKL-DPS- if EK doesn't return as they kind of flooded the market with so many seats.


Not sure the EK AKL-DPS service was too high yielding? You often were able to pickup return fares in J for $2000, and not much more in first.

I was about to do it, then covid hit…


It operated daily in NS but reduced in NW, like I say I’m not convinced it will return. Most people Europe bound would have preferred the non stop AKL-DXB.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:06 am

NZ321 wrote:
Let's hope in the not too distant future there is a supplementary passenger service via intermediary point with full traffic rights- be it DPS or BKK or another point.


Yes EK could return on DXB-BKK-AKL if Thai doesn't offer pax flights again. It would be a market that needs a direct service.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:16 am

NZ516 wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Let's hope in the not too distant future there is a supplementary passenger service via intermediary point with full traffic rights- be it DPS or BKK or another point.


Yes EK could return on DXB-BKK-AKL if Thai doesn't offer pax flights again. It would be a market that needs a direct service.


From what I gather EK wanted to run BKK-AKL rather than DPS-AKL but couldn’t get ‘slots’, I guess they couldn’t get the times they wanted ex BKK by that as BKK isn’t slot restricted AFAIK.

I do think TG will be back to AKL but for now it’s easy enough to route pax via SYD/MEL given the same issues as many airlines, a smaller fleet and not enough crew. I even wonder if they might run BNE-AKL again initially, BNE hasn’t started either.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:44 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Let's hope in the not too distant future there is a supplementary passenger service via intermediary point with full traffic rights- be it DPS or BKK or another point.


Yes EK could return on DXB-BKK-AKL if Thai doesn't offer pax flights again. It would be a market that needs a direct service.


From what I gather EK wanted to run BKK-AKL rather than DPS-AKL but couldn’t get ‘slots’, I guess they couldn’t get the times they wanted ex BKK by that as BKK isn’t slot restricted AFAIK.

I do think TG will be back to AKL but for now it’s easy enough to route pax via SYD/MEL given the same issues as many airlines, a smaller fleet and not enough crew. I even wonder if they might run BNE-AKL again initially, BNE hasn’t started either.


The latest article link I read quotes the CEO as saying TG won't be returning to a number of destinations previously served. It then lists the current and future destinations and AKL isn't mentioned at all.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:49 pm

NZ321 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Yes EK could return on DXB-BKK-AKL if Thai doesn't offer pax flights again. It would be a market that needs a direct service.


From what I gather EK wanted to run BKK-AKL rather than DPS-AKL but couldn’t get ‘slots’, I guess they couldn’t get the times they wanted ex BKK by that as BKK isn’t slot restricted AFAIK.

I do think TG will be back to AKL but for now it’s easy enough to route pax via SYD/MEL given the same issues as many airlines, a smaller fleet and not enough crew. I even wonder if they might run BNE-AKL again initially, BNE hasn’t started either.


The latest article link I read quotes the CEO as saying TG won't be returning to a number of destinations previously served. It then lists the current and future destinations and AKL isn't mentioned at all.


Thanks for sharing as was wondering what TG plans were. It's a shame they don't plan even to make AKL a future destination. Could be lack of crew and smaller fleet as ZK-NBT suggested. Perhaps Thai Air Asia X might step into the market they are about to start MEL even with Thai serving and the weekly frequency of all airlines between MEL and BKK will soon be 20.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:21 pm

On the topic of MEL here are the changes for December on the Tasman:

Air New Zealand - AKL up 2x weekly to 23x weekly
Air New Zealand - ZQN up 3x weekly to 6x weekly
Air New Zealand - WLG up 2x weekly to 6x weekly
Air New Zealand - CHC up 3x weekly to 10x weekly
Jetstar - ZQN up 2x weekly to Daily
Virgin Australia - ZQN up 3x weekly to Daily
 
mrkerr7474
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:34 pm

I noticed 5 times this month that QF162 WLG-SYD has left at least 1hr if not up to 3hrs late in the mornings. Would this be crew related issues or does anyone have info on how to find out that type of information?
 
ZKNZR
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:46 pm

Does anyone know when ZK-OKS is due back from SIN? And OKR from the desert?
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:05 am

Looking at FR24 OYB on delivery has diverted to CNS in lieu of landing in BNE.Was this planned or did FR24 get it wrong. OYA returned via CNS on it's delivery.
 
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SXI899
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:46 am

GW54 wrote:
Looking at FR24 OYB on delivery has diverted to CNS in lieu of landing in BNE.Was this planned or did FR24 get it wrong. OYA returned via CNS on it's delivery.

Was always planned via CNS, so likely a FR24 error. Will need to piggyback a BNE-AKL service for comms on its final sector on delivery.
 
JJWess
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:28 pm

Not exactly continuing the trend of the discussion, but after reading some other threads I had a though;
Considering Delta no longer has a major partnership in the Australia/NZ region (REX is still relatively small + doesn’t fly to NZ at all), what are the chances that they begin flights on their own metal to NZ?
I think it’d be interesting to see a Seattle-Auckland flight as it’s a relatively large hub for them + it’s a city unserved entirely in the AU/NZ region.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:38 pm

mrkerr7474 wrote:
I noticed 5 times this month that QF162 WLG-SYD has left at least 1hr if not up to 3hrs late in the mornings. Would this be crew related issues or does anyone have info on how to find out that type of information?


That's very strange could it be mechanical issues perhaps. The QF departures ex CHC seem to get out on time at 6am or just after every day. I thought QF had their own crew base in WLG.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:43 pm

ZKNZR wrote:
Does anyone know when ZK-OKS is due back from SIN? And OKR from the desert?


As a guess it would take about a month in SIN so could see ZK-OKS arrive in AKL in late December. That would leave OKR and OKM returning next year the last two to return.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:54 pm

SXI899 wrote:
GW54 wrote:
Looking at FR24 OYB on delivery has diverted to CNS in lieu of landing in BNE.Was this planned or did FR24 get it wrong. OYA returned via CNS on it's delivery.

Was always planned via CNS, so likely a FR24 error. Will need to piggyback a BNE-AKL service for comms on its final sector on delivery.


Did it also need to piggy back for comms with another aircraft on the long sector 6.51 KUL-CNS? Or is it only needed over the Tasman sea which is wider than the other seas it crossed?
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:05 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Will be good for the NZ services AKL-DPS- if EK doesn't return as they kind of flooded the market with so many seats.


Not sure the EK AKL-DPS service was too high yielding? You often were able to pickup return fares in J for $2000, and not much more in first.

I was about to do it, then covid hit…


It operated daily in NS but reduced in NW, like I say I’m not convinced it will return. Most people Europe bound would have preferred the non stop AKL-DXB.


If EK doesn't return to it's year round AKL- DPS service it flew pre covid. I could see the NZ 789 3 weekly service returning in March extended to year round by next NW23. To cover the loss of seats with EK no longer flying it, so demand will be higher for the NZ flights.
 
mrkerr7474
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:58 pm

NZ516 wrote:
mrkerr7474 wrote:
I noticed 5 times this month that QF162 WLG-SYD has left at least 1hr if not up to 3hrs late in the mornings. Would this be crew related issues or does anyone have info on how to find out that type of information?


That's very strange could it be mechanical issues perhaps. The QF departures ex CHC seem to get out on time at 6am or just after every day. I thought QF had their own crew base in WLG.


It could well be mechanical issues as you mention. A bit unfortunate if it is seeing as that's 5 times this month alone if it is those issues. WLG does have their own crew base, perhaps like most places they're short staffed too
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:33 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZKNZR wrote:
Does anyone know when ZK-OKS is due back from SIN? And OKR from the desert?


As a guess it would take about a month in SIN so could see ZK-OKS arrive in AKL in late December. That would leave OKR and OKM returning next year the last two to return.


ZK-OKS has been in SIN since 01 Oct and is probably due back any day now. ZK-OKR showed up on FR24 on 17 Nov and the same happened with ZK-OKS about a week before it departed VCV for LAX. The following day it did LAX-HNL-SIN.

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:30 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Not sure the EK AKL-DPS service was too high yielding? You often were able to pickup return fares in J for $2000, and not much more in first.

I was about to do it, then covid hit…


It operated daily in NS but reduced in NW, like I say I’m not convinced it will return. Most people Europe bound would have preferred the non stop AKL-DXB.


If EK doesn't return to it's year round AKL- DPS service it flew pre covid. I could see the NZ 789 3 weekly service returning in March extended to year round by next NW23. To cover the loss of seats with EK no longer flying it, so demand will be higher for the NZ flights.


I doubt NZ will go year round to DPS with such a fleet shortage, more to be made else where in NW season with that 789.
 
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SXI899
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:24 am

NZ516 wrote:
SXI899 wrote:
GW54 wrote:
Looking at FR24 OYB on delivery has diverted to CNS in lieu of landing in BNE.Was this planned or did FR24 get it wrong. OYA returned via CNS on it's delivery.

Was always planned via CNS, so likely a FR24 error. Will need to piggyback a BNE-AKL service for comms on its final sector on delivery.


Did it also need to piggy back for comms with another aircraft on the long sector 6.51 KUL-CNS? Or is it only needed over the Tasman sea which is wider than the other seas it crossed?

KUL-CNS is has VHF coverage for the entire flight, so no issues there. It’s only really the Tasman crossing that requires HF radios.
Note that the MCT-KUL routing for the domestic config A21Ns is much more northerly than that of the international config ones just because of the need to stay in VHF coverage.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:08 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

It operated daily in NS but reduced in NW, like I say I’m not convinced it will return. Most people Europe bound would have preferred the non stop AKL-DXB.


If EK doesn't return to it's year round AKL- DPS service it flew pre covid. I could see the NZ 789 3 weekly service returning in March extended to year round by next NW23. To cover the loss of seats with EK no longer flying it, so demand will be higher for the NZ flights.


I doubt NZ will go year round to DPS with such a fleet shortage, more to be made else where in NW season with that 789.


Perhaps the 3 pw week use of a 789 off DPS could then do KIX 3pw for the NZ23 season.
 
User avatar
ZKaviation
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:22 am

A321 "Domestic" ZK-OYB in the All Black Star Alliance Livery has arrived into NZAA.

Bit of an unusual story going around that it won't be brought into service for a while, it will have its engines removed, and used as a source of parts.
Apparently there is a worldwide shortage of parts for the P&W1100G engines, 50 aircraft are grounded worldwide as a result.

Will wait to see what happens, hope its not true was hoping to get pics before Xmas.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9379
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:22 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

If EK doesn't return to it's year round AKL- DPS service it flew pre covid. I could see the NZ 789 3 weekly service returning in March extended to year round by next NW23. To cover the loss of seats with EK no longer flying it, so demand will be higher for the NZ flights.


I doubt NZ will go year round to DPS with such a fleet shortage, more to be made else where in NW season with that 789.


Perhaps the 3 pw week use of a 789 off DPS could then do KIX 3pw for the NZ23 season.


More likely or additional NRT if Japan is doing well. Otherwise move the fleet around, I think some code 1 789s are going to YVR as well.
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4757
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:25 am

[twoid][/twoid]
JJWess wrote:
Not exactly continuing the trend of the discussion, but after reading some other threads I had a though;
Considering Delta no longer has a major partnership in the Australia/NZ region (REX is still relatively small + doesn’t fly to NZ at all), what are the chances that they begin flights on their own metal to NZ?
I think it’d be interesting to see a Seattle-Auckland flight as it’s a relatively large hub for them + it’s a city unserved entirely in the AU/NZ region.

Interesting. It’d be hard for them but SEA is one of the 4-5 NA destinations that NZ has been eyeing up (along with DEN, LAS, ATL, YTO, IAD, PDX).
 
Kiwiandrew
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:48 am

Zkpilot wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
JJWess wrote:
Not exactly continuing the trend of the discussion, but after reading some other threads I had a though;
Considering Delta no longer has a major partnership in the Australia/NZ region (REX is still relatively small + doesn’t fly to NZ at all), what are the chances that they begin flights on their own metal to NZ?
I think it’d be interesting to see a Seattle-Auckland flight as it’s a relatively large hub for them + it’s a city unserved entirely in the AU/NZ region.

Interesting. It’d be hard for them but SEA is one of the 4-5 NA destinations that NZ has been eyeing up (along with DEN, LAS, ATL, YTO, IAD, PDX).


I had heard that NZ were looking at Toronto and / or Seattle in the longer term, I hadn't heard anything about Las Vegas, Denver, Portland, Atlanta, or Washington . Is there a source you can share ( without putting anyone's career at risk)?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9379
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:46 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
JJWess wrote:
Not exactly continuing the trend of the discussion, but after reading some other threads I had a though;
Considering Delta no longer has a major partnership in the Australia/NZ region (REX is still relatively small + doesn’t fly to NZ at all), what are the chances that they begin flights on their own metal to NZ?
I think it’d be interesting to see a Seattle-Auckland flight as it’s a relatively large hub for them + it’s a city unserved entirely in the AU/NZ region.

Interesting. It’d be hard for them but SEA is one of the 4-5 NA destinations that NZ has been eyeing up (along with DEN, LAS, ATL, YTO, IAD, PDX).


I had heard that NZ were looking at Toronto and / or Seattle in the longer term, I hadn't heard anything about Las Vegas, Denver, Portland, Atlanta, or Washington . Is there a source you can share ( without putting anyone's career at risk)?


LAS and DEN get a mention every now and then and YYZ has come up. ATL that’s a huge DL hub, NZ won’t be going anywhere near that.
 
User avatar
Avtur
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:01 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:23 am

ZKaviation wrote:
A321 "Domestic" ZK-OYB in the All Black Star Alliance Livery has arrived into NZAA.

Bit of an unusual story going around that it won't be brought into service for a while, it will have its engines removed, and used as a source of parts.
Apparently there is a worldwide shortage of parts for the P&W1100G engines, 50 aircraft are grounded worldwide as a result.

Will wait to see what happens, hope its not true was hoping to get pics before Xmas.


Certainly haven’t heard that rumour about the engines…! Yes, “OYB” is here, and it looks very smart. It was towed past me earlier this evening, and it looked like it was have a photo shoot outside the hanger. Very sharp looking machine…, :yes:
 
NZ516
Posts: 1603
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:18 pm

SXI899 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
SXI899 wrote:
Was always planned via CNS, so likely a FR24 error. Will need to piggyback a BNE-AKL service for comms on its final sector on delivery.


Did it also need to piggy back for comms with another aircraft on the long sector 6.51 KUL-CNS? Or is it only needed over the Tasman sea which is wider than the other seas it crossed?

KUL-CNS is has VHF coverage for the entire flight, so no issues there. It’s only really the Tasman crossing that requires HF radios.
Note that the MCT-KUL routing for the domestic config A21Ns is much more northerly than that of the international config ones just because of the need to stay in VHF coverage.


Thanks for the detailed explanation and the MCT-KUL sector info as well.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1603
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:22 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
JJWess wrote:
Not exactly continuing the trend of the discussion, but after reading some other threads I had a though;
Considering Delta no longer has a major partnership in the Australia/NZ region (REX is still relatively small + doesn’t fly to NZ at all), what are the chances that they begin flights on their own metal to NZ?
I think it’d be interesting to see a Seattle-Auckland flight as it’s a relatively large hub for them + it’s a city unserved entirely in the AU/NZ region.

Interesting. It’d be hard for them but SEA is one of the 4-5 NA destinations that NZ has been eyeing up (along with DEN, LAS, ATL, YTO, IAD, PDX).


I expect that NZ will increase ORD and JFK services to daily before they start a new USA destination.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1611
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:35 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
JJWess wrote:
Not exactly continuing the trend of the discussion, but after reading some other threads I had a though;
Considering Delta no longer has a major partnership in the Australia/NZ region (REX is still relatively small + doesn’t fly to NZ at all), what are the chances that they begin flights on their own metal to NZ?
I think it’d be interesting to see a Seattle-Auckland flight as it’s a relatively large hub for them + it’s a city unserved entirely in the AU/NZ region.

Interesting. It’d be hard for them but SEA is one of the 4-5 NA destinations that NZ has been eyeing up (along with DEN, LAS, ATL, YTO, IAD, PDX).


I would think SEA-AKL & SEA-SYD could both work, but DL seem averse to diversification / expansion of their Trans Pac network and their overall international footprint is shrinking. DL to NZ seems unlikely IMHO, unless perhaps they see a compelling case for ATL-AKL-SYD.
 
NZ801
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:18 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
JJWess wrote:
Not exactly continuing the trend of the discussion, but after reading some other threads I had a though;
Considering Delta no longer has a major partnership in the Australia/NZ region (REX is still relatively small + doesn’t fly to NZ at all), what are the chances that they begin flights on their own metal to NZ?
I think it’d be interesting to see a Seattle-Auckland flight as it’s a relatively large hub for them + it’s a city unserved entirely in the AU/NZ region.

Interesting. It’d be hard for them but SEA is one of the 4-5 NA destinations that NZ has been eyeing up (along with DEN, LAS, ATL, YTO, IAD, PDX).


I expect that NZ will increase ORD and JFK services to daily before they start a new USA destination.


This is correct. It’s highly unlikely there will be any new destinations until mid 2024 at the earliest.
 
NZ801
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:19 pm

ZKaviation wrote:
A321 "Domestic" ZK-OYB in the All Black Star Alliance Livery has arrived into NZAA.

Bit of an unusual story going around that it won't be brought into service for a while, it will have its engines removed, and used as a source of parts.
Apparently there is a worldwide shortage of parts for the P&W1100G engines, 50 aircraft are grounded worldwide as a result.

Will wait to see what happens, hope its not true was hoping to get pics before Xmas.


Given how hard NZ had to work to get these aircraft coupled with how desperately they are needed, this seems highly unlikely.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1603
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:51 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

I doubt NZ will go year round to DPS with such a fleet shortage, more to be made else where in NW season with that 789.


Perhaps the 3 pw week use of a 789 off DPS could then do KIX 3pw for the NZ23 season.


More likely or additional NRT if Japan is doing well. Otherwise move the fleet around, I think some code 1 789s are going to YVR as well.


NRT could go up to ten weekly for peak season it has been this high in frequency before.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9379
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:56 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Perhaps the 3 pw week use of a 789 off DPS could then do KIX 3pw for the NZ23 season.


More likely or additional NRT if Japan is doing well. Otherwise move the fleet around, I think some code 1 789s are going to YVR as well.


NRT could go up to ten weekly for peak season it has been this high in frequency before.


If demand is there, otherwise additional North American services.
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1422
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:51 am

Avtur wrote:
ZKaviation wrote:
A321 "Domestic" ZK-OYB in the All Black Star Alliance Livery has arrived into NZAA.

Bit of an unusual story going around that it won't be brought into service for a while, it will have its engines removed, and used as a source of parts.
Apparently there is a worldwide shortage of parts for the P&W1100G engines, 50 aircraft are grounded worldwide as a result.

Will wait to see what happens, hope its not true was hoping to get pics before Xmas.


Certainly haven’t heard that rumour about the engines…! Yes, “OYB” is here, and it looks very smart. It was towed past me earlier this evening, and it looked like it was have a photo shoot outside the hanger. Very sharp looking machine…, :yes:


Its scheduled to go to ZQN on the 3rd for its first flight so unlikely.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4757
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:12 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Interesting. It’d be hard for them but SEA is one of the 4-5 NA destinations that NZ has been eyeing up (along with DEN, LAS, ATL, YTO, IAD, PDX).


I had heard that NZ were looking at Toronto and / or Seattle in the longer term, I hadn't heard anything about Las Vegas, Denver, Portland, Atlanta, or Washington . Is there a source you can share ( without putting anyone's career at risk)?


LAS and DEN get a mention every now and then and YYZ has come up. ATL that’s a huge DL hub, NZ won’t be going anywhere near that.

That’s the general thinking, but the South/East is underserved so they’re keeping an eye on it for sure but very unlikely.
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