zkncj wrote:

ZKNHF wrote:

zkncj wrote:

With air travel starting to ramp up at AKL, over the next few weeks lead into the summer peak. With more airlines and routes returning, how well is AKL prepared to handle this his influx?

At domestic last night my flight arrived at Gate 22 on NZ, this typically was a JQ gate in the past. Has NZ taken over gate 22?

AKL is probably capable of handling it. Can’t be much busier than pre covid.

Don’t think so for your second question. Currently gate 31 is NOTAMed closed until 9 December for surface works on taxiway B and B5. So 22 was probably needed instead.

Pre-covid AKL international struggled, with multiple bus gates required at busy times of the day.

Am curious as to why using a bus gate equals the airport is struggling, to me its using all available assets. Give me a wide body boarding/disembarking via 2-3 exits into a fleet of waiting buses that drop me off often much closer to the processing areas than a single aerobridge which relies on a gate agent being on time to attach, followed then by the crush to file out the single point of exit. Bus operations can be incredibly efficient if done well, never really understood why they seem to be looked upon as so inferior in this part of the world.

As to being ready for summer in general, it'll be slower and people should prepare for that now, especially when connections or complex itineraries are involved. All agencies are stretched and will continue to be so for probably another 1-2 years, there's no single entity that'll make it go smoothly, you need all of them to be. That's across the country.

ZKNHF wrote:

zkncj wrote:

With air travel starting to ramp up at AKL, over the next few weeks lead into the summer peak. With more airlines and routes returning, how well is AKL prepared to handle this his influx?

At domestic last night my flight arrived at Gate 22 on NZ, this typically was a JQ gate in the past. Has NZ taken over gate 22?

AKL is probably capable of handling it. Can’t be much busier than pre covid.

Physically yes, but shortages in staff will be the issue.

Avtur wrote:

zkncj wrote:

The JQ gates, will eventually become the integrated domestic pier.

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

zkncj wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

NPL8800 wrote:

However it should be noted that the CHC-WLG jet increase has come at the expensive of frequency which has effectively halved and there are now some quite large gaps between services at some parts of the day.

Is this a permanent change?

Maybe over the summer, until the 4x leased domestic A320CEO's leave the fleet?

Seems that OYA,B,C are all adding capacity to the domestic network over summer, freeing up some A320CEO's.

OYA is already getting put to a lot of use flying pretty much solid from 7am to 9pm.

Even with OYA adding capacity there is so much more domestic jet flights in CHC. Another 321 will have been taken off international routes with the ending of MCY and CNS services.

Just looking at today for example.
NHA, NHE, and NNA were on domestic duties along with OYA and all the other domestic 320s. Except OXM and NNC not in use. So 20 on domestic in total plus 9 on international 4 320s and 5 321s.

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

zkncj wrote:

The JQ gates, will eventually become the integrated domestic pier.

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

That would be the first part, but the ultimate plan, as it shows in the link you provided is to build three new piers for domestic. Currently the “honey pot” is being relocated, checkpoint Charlie is being rerouted and various other works (I think something is happening to one of the bag rooms). The airport master plan is available on the corporate section of the AIAL website. I just can’t seem to post the images on here. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the freighters (Singapore, Qantas(Atlas), Airwork, FedEx ) while this is happening. It’s a circus now trying to cross the taxiway from stand 82 across to stand 6 especially if there is an arrival or departure from gate 8,6,4. Gate 2 is currently closed for work on the fuel hydrant.

NZ516 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

Is this a permanent change?

Maybe over the summer, until the 4x leased domestic A320CEO's leave the fleet?

Seems that OYA,B,C are all adding capacity to the domestic network over summer, freeing up some A320CEO's.

OYA is already getting put to a lot of use flying pretty much solid from 7am to 9pm.

Even with OYA adding capacity there is so much more domestic jet flights in CHC. Another 321 will have been taken off international routes with the ending of MCY and CNS services.

Just looking at today for example.
NHA, NHE, and NNA were on domestic duties along with OYA and all the other domestic 320s. Except OXM and NNC not in use. So 20 on domestic in total plus 9 on international 4 320s and 5 321s.

MCY and CNS were both listed as A320, not A321 IIRC.

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

Maybe over the summer, until the 4x leased domestic A320CEO's leave the fleet?

Seems that OYA,B,C are all adding capacity to the domestic network over summer, freeing up some A320CEO's.

OYA is already getting put to a lot of use flying pretty much solid from 7am to 9pm.

Even with OYA adding capacity there is so much more domestic jet flights in CHC. Another 321 will have been taken off international routes with the ending of MCY and CNS services.

Just looking at today for example.
NHA, NHE, and NNA were on domestic duties along with OYA and all the other domestic 320s. Except OXM and NNC not in use. So 20 on domestic in total plus 9 on international 4 320s and 5 321s.

MCY and CNS were both listed as A320, not A321 IIRC.

And BNE/SYD/MEL from AKL all increase once the MCY/CNS services had ended for the season.

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

They all can take A321s even IVC.

At 7,500 feet, IVC has a longer (civil) runway than anywhere except AKL or CHC. No sure why though - anyone know?

Invercargill has always been a alternate for aircraft coming back from the ice with mechanical or fuel shortage situations, right back to the days of Neptune's, Globemaster II's and the Constellation's (which frequently came back on three legs/ 1 engine out).

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

zkncj wrote:

The JQ gates, will eventually become the integrated domestic pier.

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

So, from that video it seems 9 jet gates are planned on this new domestic pier. That would directly replace one for one the jet gates in the current domestic terminal, no growth. And what happens to Link? Where will link go? This is an incredibly important part of the domestic operation. The video doesn't address this at all. Interesting.

NZ516 wrote:

77west wrote:

Given how full the A321 always seem to be; I do wonder if we will end up down the line with mostly A321 on domestic. Are there any airports that take domestic A320 that would not take an A321?

They all can take A321s even IVC.

IVC is restricted for A321 operations, I believe due to wheel loading. I understand on an annual basis it can only accept less than 20 movements with the A321.

NZ516 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

On the subject I thought I might make a list of longest sealed runways in NZ. Some are longer than others and don't have airline service anymore.

1. AKL 3,535
2. CHC 3,288
3. OHA 2,445
4. IVC 2,210
5. OHA 2,133 (2)
6. ROT 2,114
7. WLG 2,081
8. HLZ 2,059
9. WHP 2,031
10. PMR 1,902
11.DUD 1,900
12. TRG 1,825
13. ZQN 1,777
14. NPE 1,750
15. CHC 1,741 (2)
16. TEU 1,594
17. WHP 1,581 (2)
18. MON 1,473
19. BHE 1,425
20. TUO 1,386
21. WAG 1,378
22. CHT 1,360 soon to be 1,860
23. NSN 1,347
24. NPL 1,310
24. GIS 1,310=
26. PPQ 1,307
27.TIU 1,280
28. MRO 1,250
29. NPE 1,199 (2)
30. KKE 1,190
31. HKK 1,176
32. HKK 1,152 (2)
33. WRE 1,097

Also KAT at 1402m, Ardmore at 1411m

Thanks I expected that I would miss a few, plus there are lots under 1000m. Another one WHK is 1280 which will change the ranking. Amazing how short the runway at WRE is.

Another obscure one that would make the list is Alexandra (ALR) at 1200m

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

Maybe over the summer, until the 4x leased domestic A320CEO's leave the fleet?

Seems that OYA,B,C are all adding capacity to the domestic network over summer, freeing up some A320CEO's.

OYA is already getting put to a lot of use flying pretty much solid from 7am to 9pm.

Even with OYA adding capacity there is so much more domestic jet flights in CHC. Another 321 will have been taken off international routes with the ending of MCY and CNS services.

Just looking at today for example.
NHA, NHE, and NNA were on domestic duties along with OYA and all the other domestic 320s. Except OXM and NNC not in use. So 20 on domestic in total plus 9 on international 4 320s and 5 321s.

MCY and CNS were both listed as A320, not A321 IIRC.

My two flights to CNS were A321s the A321 fleet is based in Auckland. Probably only got substituted to A320 a last minute change.

Avtur wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

That would be the first part, but the ultimate plan, as it shows in the link you provided is to build three new piers for domestic. Currently the “honey pot” is being relocated, checkpoint Charlie is being rerouted and various other works (I think something is happening to one of the bag rooms). The airport master plan is available on the corporate section of the AIAL website. I just can’t seem to post the images on here. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the freighters (Singapore, Qantas(Atlas), Airwork, FedEx ) while this is happening. It’s a circus now trying to cross the taxiway from stand 82 across to stand 6 especially if there is an arrival or departure from gate 8,6,4. Gate 2 is currently closed for work on the fuel hydrant.

You can see the vision here with additional "piers", I'll be long gone before we see anything of the sort.



I'm still expecting all domestic jet to move to the new pier currently under construction, I'll use that term loosely (Is it still in a pre-works phase) and the existing domestic terminal refreshed for the millionth time to accommodate all regional flying. Using current jet gates for ATR's etc. I also wouldn't be surprised if JQ stayed there.

Obviously not forever, but the current domestic terminal will still be used for another 20-30 years.

SpoonNZ wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

Also KAT at 1402m, Ardmore at 1411m

Thanks I expected that I would miss a few, plus there are lots under 1000m. Another one WHK is 1280 which will change the ranking. Amazing how short the runway at WRE is.

Another obscure one that would make the list is Alexandra (ALR) at 1200m

Good find, years ago there was flights from Alex to CHC with an airline called Goldfields Air.

zkncj wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Even with OYA adding capacity there is so much more domestic jet flights in CHC. Another 321 will have been taken off international routes with the ending of MCY and CNS services.

Just looking at today for example.
NHA, NHE, and NNA were on domestic duties along with OYA and all the other domestic 320s. Except OXM and NNC not in use. So 20 on domestic in total plus 9 on international 4 320s and 5 321s.

MCY and CNS were both listed as A320, not A321 IIRC.

And BNE/SYD/MEL from AKL all increase once the MCY/CNS services had ended for the season.

That increase in flying will be well received their is still capacity to add more. With only 9 321/320s flying internationally yesterday on all routes they could increase it to ten once more domestic 321s arrive.
But they are really short by about 3 domestic 321s at the moment even with OYA in service.

NZ516 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

MCY and CNS were both listed as A320, not A321 IIRC.

And BNE/SYD/MEL from AKL all increase once the MCY/CNS services had ended for the season.

That increase in flying will be well received their is still capacity to add more. With only 9 321/320s flying internationally yesterday on all routes they could increase it to ten once more domestic 321s arrive.

Crew shortage and also a lot less flying international ex WLG/CHC is partly why only 9 aircraft flying international

NZ516 wrote:

SpoonNZ wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Thanks I expected that I would miss a few, plus there are lots under 1000m. Another one WHK is 1280 which will change the ranking. Amazing how short the runway at WRE is.

Another obscure one that would make the list is Alexandra (ALR) at 1200m

Good find, years ago there was flights from Alex to CHC with an airline called Goldfields Air.

Back before it became an NZ subsidiary, Mt Cook (NM) operated a daily(?) service ZQN-ALX-DUD for many years, using an Islander.

NZ516 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Even with OYA adding capacity there is so much more domestic jet flights in CHC. Another 321 will have been taken off international routes with the ending of MCY and CNS services.

Just looking at today for example.
NHA, NHE, and NNA were on domestic duties along with OYA and all the other domestic 320s. Except OXM and NNC not in use. So 20 on domestic in total plus 9 on international 4 320s and 5 321s.

MCY and CNS were both listed as A320, not A321 IIRC.

My two flights to CNS were A321s the A321 fleet is based in Auckland. Probably only got substituted to A320 a last minute change.

There must be at least one international A320 based in AKL because AKL-HBA, AKL-IUE and AKL-NOU all operate with the A320. Although my trip on AKL-HBA a few months back was also unexpectedly on an A321, where an A320 was indicated on the website. Unless, of course, an A320 is cycled in and out from elsewhere.

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

MCY and CNS were both listed as A320, not A321 IIRC.

My two flights to CNS were A321s the A321 fleet is based in Auckland. Probably only got substituted to A320 a last minute change.

There must be at least one international A320 based in AKL because AKL-HBA, AKL-IUE and AKL-NOU all operate with the A320. Although my trip on AKL-HBA a few months back was also unexpectedly on an A321, where an A320 was indicated on the website. Unless, of course, an A320 is cycled in and out from elsewhere.

Yes they do a lot of rotating off domestic flights ex CHC/WLG and swap over at the end of the day.
Only four international 320s were in use yesterday to cover all the CHC/WLG/ZQN Tasman flights. Which gave two spare for domestic flying.

ZK-NBT wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

And BNE/SYD/MEL from AKL all increase once the MCY/CNS services had ended for the season.

That increase in flying will be well received their is still capacity to add more. With only 9 321/320s flying internationally yesterday on all routes they could increase it to ten once more domestic 321s arrive.

Crew shortage and also a lot less flying international ex WLG/CHC is partly why only 9 aircraft flying international

And to take the pressure of the summer schedule to ensure there aren’t cancellations which wouldn’t go down well at Christmas.

Avtur wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

The JQ gates, will eventually become the integrated domestic pier.

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

That would be the first part, but the ultimate plan, as it shows in the link you provided is to build three new piers for domestic. Currently the “honey pot” is being relocated, checkpoint Charlie is being rerouted and various other works (I think something is happening to one of the bag rooms). The airport master plan is available on the corporate section of the AIAL website. I just can’t seem to post the images on here. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the freighters (Singapore, Qantas(Atlas), Airwork, FedEx ) while this is happening. It’s a circus now trying to cross the taxiway from stand 82 across to stand 6 especially if there is an arrival or departure from gate 8,6,4. Gate 2 is currently closed for work on the fuel hydrant.

Ah I get you. I thought you meant the domestic jet pier currently under planning would incorporate the existing JQ gates. As others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath on further development. If I recall correctly, the integration of domestic and international was originally something envisioned for the 1990s, and has been slipping back in time ever since. From what I understand, the plan is for the existing domestic terminal to be refurbished for regional operations once the jets move to the new pier. While it would be nice to think they would build out at least one new regional pier from the integrated terminal as soon as they complete the jet pier, I suspect that won't happen, unless Air New Zealand kick up a large stink about their domestic-to-domestic connections operating between two different terminals.

You're definitely right about the circus. I've seen (and been in) lines of vehicles waiting upwards of 15 minutes to get across from the tennis courts to the international terminal. The eastern baggage hall at international is being demolished and replaced with a more modern baggage handling system (which presumably will be ready to handle both international and domestic baggage).

NZ321 wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

The JQ gates, will eventually become the integrated domestic pier.

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

So, from that video it seems 9 jet gates are planned on this new domestic pier. That would directly replace one for one the jet gates in the current domestic terminal, no growth.

I believe it is 12 gates. The three gates shown on the western side appear to be MARS gates, which can handle a single widebody or two narrowbodies, like the current gates 15-18.

NZ6 wrote:

You can see the vision here with additional "piers", I'll be long gone before we see anything of the sort.



I'm still expecting all domestic jet to move to the new pier currently under construction, I'll use that term loosely (Is it still in a pre-works phase) and the existing domestic terminal refreshed for the millionth time to accommodate all regional flying. Using current jet gates for ATR's etc. I also wouldn't be surprised if JQ stayed there.

Obviously not forever, but the current domestic terminal will still be used for another 20-30 years.

I suspect you are right. I would guess 2027 for the opening of the domestic jet pier, and probably another 20 years of life eked out of the current domestic terminal after that. Unless Air New Zealand put their foot down about domestic-to-domestic connections being separated. But knowing Auckland Airport, their response would be along the lines of "here is how much additional you will need to pay to bring the completion of the additional piers forward". One thing which may come into play is screening requirements; if there is a need for regional screening, there may be an argument to consolidate that in one place to minimise the number of people needing to exit and reenter the secure area.

Interestingly Auckland Airport's web site seems quite silent on showing long term plans. The photo you showed is good; the corporate website uses an alternative angle as its background which shows quite nicely the long term vision (with the third domestic pier appearing to sit more or less where gates 43-50 are at the moment: https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/. Eyeballing that image, the northern edge of the terminal connecting the three domestic piers would be alongside Cyril Kay Drive. The first pier, as mentioned, would sit where the "tennis courts" (stands 70-73) are currently, the second pier would be on top of where the fuel silos are currently, extending out more or less over the top of the current stand 30 or thereabouts, and the third pier, as mentioned, sitting in line with the current regional pier for gates 43-50. It looks like they are planning dual taxilanes between the piers, which will be very useful to avoid congestion.

Come on Auckland Airport, prove us all wrong and get this done in the next decade!

V/F

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

That would be the first part, but the ultimate plan, as it shows in the link you provided is to build three new piers for domestic. Currently the “honey pot” is being relocated, checkpoint Charlie is being rerouted and various other works (I think something is happening to one of the bag rooms). The airport master plan is available on the corporate section of the AIAL website. I just can’t seem to post the images on here. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the freighters (Singapore, Qantas(Atlas), Airwork, FedEx ) while this is happening. It’s a circus now trying to cross the taxiway from stand 82 across to stand 6 especially if there is an arrival or departure from gate 8,6,4. Gate 2 is currently closed for work on the fuel hydrant.

Ah I get you. I thought you meant the domestic jet pier currently under planning would incorporate the existing JQ gates. As others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath on further development. If I recall correctly, the integration of domestic and international was originally something envisioned for the 1990s, and has been slipping back in time ever since. From what I understand, the plan is for the existing domestic terminal to be refurbished for regional operations once the jets move to the new pier. While it would be nice to think they would build out at least one new regional pier from the integrated terminal as soon as they complete the jet pier, I suspect that won't happen, unless Air New Zealand kick up a large stink about their domestic-to-domestic connections operating between two different terminals.

You're definitely right about the circus. I've seen (and been in) lines of vehicles waiting upwards of 15 minutes to get across from the tennis courts to the international terminal. The eastern baggage hall at international is being demolished and replaced with a more modern baggage handling system (which presumably will be ready to handle both international and domestic baggage).

NZ321 wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

So, from that video it seems 9 jet gates are planned on this new domestic pier. That would directly replace one for one the jet gates in the current domestic terminal, no growth.

I believe it is 12 gates. The three gates shown on the western side appear to be MARS gates, which can handle a single widebody or two narrowbodies, like the current gates 15-18.

NZ6 wrote:

You can see the vision here with additional "piers", I'll be long gone before we see anything of the sort.



I'm still expecting all domestic jet to move to the new pier currently under construction, I'll use that term loosely (Is it still in a pre-works phase) and the existing domestic terminal refreshed for the millionth time to accommodate all regional flying. Using current jet gates for ATR's etc. I also wouldn't be surprised if JQ stayed there.

Obviously not forever, but the current domestic terminal will still be used for another 20-30 years.

I suspect you are right. I would guess 2027 for the opening of the domestic jet pier, and probably another 20 years of life eked out of the current domestic terminal after that. Unless Air New Zealand put their foot down about domestic-to-domestic connections being separated. But knowing Auckland Airport, their response would be along the lines of "here is how much additional you will need to pay to bring the completion of the additional piers forward". One thing which may come into play is screening requirements; if there is a need for regional screening, there may be an argument to consolidate that in one place to minimise the number of people needing to exit and reenter the secure area.

Interestingly Auckland Airport's web site seems quite silent on showing long term plans. The photo you showed is good; the corporate website uses an alternative angle as its background which shows quite nicely the long term vision (with the third domestic pier appearing to sit more or less where gates 43-50 are at the moment: https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/. Eyeballing that image, the northern edge of the terminal connecting the three domestic piers would be alongside Cyril Kay Drive. The first pier, as mentioned, would sit where the "tennis courts" (stands 70-73) are currently, the second pier would be on top of where the fuel silos are currently, extending out more or less over the top of the current stand 30 or thereabouts, and the third pier, as mentioned, sitting in line with the current regional pier for gates 43-50. It looks like they are planning dual taxilanes between the piers, which will be very useful to avoid congestion.

Come on Auckland Airport, prove us all wrong and get this done in the next decade!

V/F

I’m sure we’ve been sitting in the same queue’s (from 82-6 and vv)….? I did hear a rumour that they are going to come up with an alternative road somewhere, but like you, I’ll believe it, when I actually get to use it….!

One thing you mentioned in your last paragraph, and that can’t be seen in any of the images on the airport master plan , is the fuel storage tanks…! As I’m sure you’re aware, this is where I’m based from. I suppose the airport is banking on new technology that will eliminate the need for aircraft to use traditional jet fuel in favour of batteries….?

Either way, I suspect I’ll long be in a box underground before any of it happens.

Avtur wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

That would be the first part, but the ultimate plan, as it shows in the link you provided is to build three new piers for domestic. Currently the “honey pot” is being relocated, checkpoint Charlie is being rerouted and various other works (I think something is happening to one of the bag rooms). The airport master plan is available on the corporate section of the AIAL website. I just can’t seem to post the images on here. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the freighters (Singapore, Qantas(Atlas), Airwork, FedEx ) while this is happening. It’s a circus now trying to cross the taxiway from stand 82 across to stand 6 especially if there is an arrival or departure from gate 8,6,4. Gate 2 is currently closed for work on the fuel hydrant.

Ah I get you. I thought you meant the domestic jet pier currently under planning would incorporate the existing JQ gates. As others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath on further development. If I recall correctly, the integration of domestic and international was originally something envisioned for the 1990s, and has been slipping back in time ever since. From what I understand, the plan is for the existing domestic terminal to be refurbished for regional operations once the jets move to the new pier. While it would be nice to think they would build out at least one new regional pier from the integrated terminal as soon as they complete the jet pier, I suspect that won't happen, unless Air New Zealand kick up a large stink about their domestic-to-domestic connections operating between two different terminals.

You're definitely right about the circus. I've seen (and been in) lines of vehicles waiting upwards of 15 minutes to get across from the tennis courts to the international terminal. The eastern baggage hall at international is being demolished and replaced with a more modern baggage handling system (which presumably will be ready to handle both international and domestic baggage).

NZ321 wrote:

So, from that video it seems 9 jet gates are planned on this new domestic pier. That would directly replace one for one the jet gates in the current domestic terminal, no growth.

I believe it is 12 gates. The three gates shown on the western side appear to be MARS gates, which can handle a single widebody or two narrowbodies, like the current gates 15-18.

NZ6 wrote:

You can see the vision here with additional "piers", I'll be long gone before we see anything of the sort.



I'm still expecting all domestic jet to move to the new pier currently under construction, I'll use that term loosely (Is it still in a pre-works phase) and the existing domestic terminal refreshed for the millionth time to accommodate all regional flying. Using current jet gates for ATR's etc. I also wouldn't be surprised if JQ stayed there.

Obviously not forever, but the current domestic terminal will still be used for another 20-30 years.

I suspect you are right. I would guess 2027 for the opening of the domestic jet pier, and probably another 20 years of life eked out of the current domestic terminal after that. Unless Air New Zealand put their foot down about domestic-to-domestic connections being separated. But knowing Auckland Airport, their response would be along the lines of "here is how much additional you will need to pay to bring the completion of the additional piers forward". One thing which may come into play is screening requirements; if there is a need for regional screening, there may be an argument to consolidate that in one place to minimise the number of people needing to exit and reenter the secure area.

Interestingly Auckland Airport's web site seems quite silent on showing long term plans. The photo you showed is good; the corporate website uses an alternative angle as its background which shows quite nicely the long term vision (with the third domestic pier appearing to sit more or less where gates 43-50 are at the moment: https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/. Eyeballing that image, the northern edge of the terminal connecting the three domestic piers would be alongside Cyril Kay Drive. The first pier, as mentioned, would sit where the "tennis courts" (stands 70-73) are currently, the second pier would be on top of where the fuel silos are currently, extending out more or less over the top of the current stand 30 or thereabouts, and the third pier, as mentioned, sitting in line with the current regional pier for gates 43-50. It looks like they are planning dual taxilanes between the piers, which will be very useful to avoid congestion.

Come on Auckland Airport, prove us all wrong and get this done in the next decade!

V/F

I’m sure we’ve been sitting in the same queue’s (from 82-6 and vv)….? I did hear a rumour that they are going to come up with an alternative road somewhere, but like you, I’ll believe it, when I actually get to use it….!

One thing you mentioned in your last paragraph, and that can’t be seen in any of the images on the airport master plan , is the fuel storage tanks…! As I’m sure you’re aware, this is where I’m based from. I suppose the airport is banking on new technology that will eliminate the need for aircraft to use traditional jet fuel in favour of batteries….?

Either way, I suspect I’ll long be in a box underground before any of it happens.

The new mayor of AKL hasn’t ruled out selling the council stake in Auckland Airport. That could be interesting. Westfield Auckland Airport anyone.

NZ801 wrote:

Avtur wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Ah I get you. I thought you meant the domestic jet pier currently under planning would incorporate the existing JQ gates. As others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath on further development. If I recall correctly, the integration of domestic and international was originally something envisioned for the 1990s, and has been slipping back in time ever since. From what I understand, the plan is for the existing domestic terminal to be refurbished for regional operations once the jets move to the new pier. While it would be nice to think they would build out at least one new regional pier from the integrated terminal as soon as they complete the jet pier, I suspect that won't happen, unless Air New Zealand kick up a large stink about their domestic-to-domestic connections operating between two different terminals.

You're definitely right about the circus. I've seen (and been in) lines of vehicles waiting upwards of 15 minutes to get across from the tennis courts to the international terminal. The eastern baggage hall at international is being demolished and replaced with a more modern baggage handling system (which presumably will be ready to handle both international and domestic baggage).


I believe it is 12 gates. The three gates shown on the western side appear to be MARS gates, which can handle a single widebody or two narrowbodies, like the current gates 15-18.


I suspect you are right. I would guess 2027 for the opening of the domestic jet pier, and probably another 20 years of life eked out of the current domestic terminal after that. Unless Air New Zealand put their foot down about domestic-to-domestic connections being separated. But knowing Auckland Airport, their response would be along the lines of "here is how much additional you will need to pay to bring the completion of the additional piers forward". One thing which may come into play is screening requirements; if there is a need for regional screening, there may be an argument to consolidate that in one place to minimise the number of people needing to exit and reenter the secure area.

Interestingly Auckland Airport's web site seems quite silent on showing long term plans. The photo you showed is good; the corporate website uses an alternative angle as its background which shows quite nicely the long term vision (with the third domestic pier appearing to sit more or less where gates 43-50 are at the moment: https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/. Eyeballing that image, the northern edge of the terminal connecting the three domestic piers would be alongside Cyril Kay Drive. The first pier, as mentioned, would sit where the "tennis courts" (stands 70-73) are currently, the second pier would be on top of where the fuel silos are currently, extending out more or less over the top of the current stand 30 or thereabouts, and the third pier, as mentioned, sitting in line with the current regional pier for gates 43-50. It looks like they are planning dual taxilanes between the piers, which will be very useful to avoid congestion.

Come on Auckland Airport, prove us all wrong and get this done in the next decade!

V/F

I’m sure we’ve been sitting in the same queue’s (from 82-6 and vv)….? I did hear a rumour that they are going to come up with an alternative road somewhere, but like you, I’ll believe it, when I actually get to use it….!

One thing you mentioned in your last paragraph, and that can’t be seen in any of the images on the airport master plan , is the fuel storage tanks…! As I’m sure you’re aware, this is where I’m based from. I suppose the airport is banking on new technology that will eliminate the need for aircraft to use traditional jet fuel in favour of batteries….?

Either way, I suspect I’ll long be in a box underground before any of it happens.

The new mayor of AKL hasn’t ruled out selling the council stake in Auckland Airport. That could be interesting. Westfield Auckland Airport anyone.

I hope the Singaporeans can take a stake in AKL. They will get cracking on with the terminal development and no more of kicking the can down the road.

NZ516 wrote:

NZ801 wrote:

Avtur wrote:

I’m sure we’ve been sitting in the same queue’s (from 82-6 and vv)….? I did hear a rumour that they are going to come up with an alternative road somewhere, but like you, I’ll believe it, when I actually get to use it….!

One thing you mentioned in your last paragraph, and that can’t be seen in any of the images on the airport master plan , is the fuel storage tanks…! As I’m sure you’re aware, this is where I’m based from. I suppose the airport is banking on new technology that will eliminate the need for aircraft to use traditional jet fuel in favour of batteries….?

Either way, I suspect I’ll long be in a box underground before any of it happens.

The new mayor of AKL hasn’t ruled out selling the council stake in Auckland Airport. That could be interesting. Westfield Auckland Airport anyone.

I hope the Singaporeans can take a stake in AKL. They will get cracking on with the terminal development and no more of kicking the can down the road.

Or DNATA……! Just saying…….

Avtur wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

That would be the first part, but the ultimate plan, as it shows in the link you provided is to build three new piers for domestic. Currently the “honey pot” is being relocated, checkpoint Charlie is being rerouted and various other works (I think something is happening to one of the bag rooms). The airport master plan is available on the corporate section of the AIAL website. I just can’t seem to post the images on here. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the freighters (Singapore, Qantas(Atlas), Airwork, FedEx ) while this is happening. It’s a circus now trying to cross the taxiway from stand 82 across to stand 6 especially if there is an arrival or departure from gate 8,6,4. Gate 2 is currently closed for work on the fuel hydrant.

Ah I get you. I thought you meant the domestic jet pier currently under planning would incorporate the existing JQ gates. As others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath on further development. If I recall correctly, the integration of domestic and international was originally something envisioned for the 1990s, and has been slipping back in time ever since. From what I understand, the plan is for the existing domestic terminal to be refurbished for regional operations once the jets move to the new pier. While it would be nice to think they would build out at least one new regional pier from the integrated terminal as soon as they complete the jet pier, I suspect that won't happen, unless Air New Zealand kick up a large stink about their domestic-to-domestic connections operating between two different terminals.

You're definitely right about the circus. I've seen (and been in) lines of vehicles waiting upwards of 15 minutes to get across from the tennis courts to the international terminal. The eastern baggage hall at international is being demolished and replaced with a more modern baggage handling system (which presumably will be ready to handle both international and domestic baggage).

NZ321 wrote:

So, from that video it seems 9 jet gates are planned on this new domestic pier. That would directly replace one for one the jet gates in the current domestic terminal, no growth.

I believe it is 12 gates. The three gates shown on the western side appear to be MARS gates, which can handle a single widebody or two narrowbodies, like the current gates 15-18.

NZ6 wrote:

You can see the vision here with additional "piers", I'll be long gone before we see anything of the sort.



I'm still expecting all domestic jet to move to the new pier currently under construction, I'll use that term loosely (Is it still in a pre-works phase) and the existing domestic terminal refreshed for the millionth time to accommodate all regional flying. Using current jet gates for ATR's etc. I also wouldn't be surprised if JQ stayed there.

Obviously not forever, but the current domestic terminal will still be used for another 20-30 years.

I suspect you are right. I would guess 2027 for the opening of the domestic jet pier, and probably another 20 years of life eked out of the current domestic terminal after that. Unless Air New Zealand put their foot down about domestic-to-domestic connections being separated. But knowing Auckland Airport, their response would be along the lines of "here is how much additional you will need to pay to bring the completion of the additional piers forward". One thing which may come into play is screening requirements; if there is a need for regional screening, there may be an argument to consolidate that in one place to minimise the number of people needing to exit and reenter the secure area.

Interestingly Auckland Airport's web site seems quite silent on showing long term plans. The photo you showed is good; the corporate website uses an alternative angle as its background which shows quite nicely the long term vision (with the third domestic pier appearing to sit more or less where gates 43-50 are at the moment: https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/. Eyeballing that image, the northern edge of the terminal connecting the three domestic piers would be alongside Cyril Kay Drive. The first pier, as mentioned, would sit where the "tennis courts" (stands 70-73) are currently, the second pier would be on top of where the fuel silos are currently, extending out more or less over the top of the current stand 30 or thereabouts, and the third pier, as mentioned, sitting in line with the current regional pier for gates 43-50. It looks like they are planning dual taxilanes between the piers, which will be very useful to avoid congestion.

Come on Auckland Airport, prove us all wrong and get this done in the next decade!

V/F

I’m sure we’ve been sitting in the same queue’s (from 82-6 and vv)….? I did hear a rumour that they are going to come up with an alternative road somewhere, but like you, I’ll believe it, when I actually get to use it….!

One thing you mentioned in your last paragraph, and that can’t be seen in any of the images on the airport master plan , is the fuel storage tanks…! As I’m sure you’re aware, this is where I’m based from. I suppose the airport is banking on new technology that will eliminate the need for aircraft to use traditional jet fuel in favour of batteries….?

Either way, I suspect I’ll long be in a box underground before any of it happens.

That's an interesting point. If they're waiting for that, then its likely we'll all be in boxes before the terminal development happens. It isn't my area of expertise, but could the fueling system manage if the fuel storage was off site (Wiri?) and pipelined to the airport, or would that be too far?

BARNZ had an article a few years ago stating that the alternative JUHI site identified was the current golf course: https://barnz.org.nz/2019/03/15/auckland-juhi-might-move-to-the-golf-course-site/. Looking at the map there, am I right in saying if they are talking about hydrant lines at the domestic aprons, that would replace the current tanker operations currently used for the regional aircraft (I don't remember ever looking, are the domestic jets currently fueled from tankers or hydrants?)

The article also included this prescient tidbit:

Although the preferred site has been identified, this does not mean it has been confirmed. The most important decision to be made is about whether an alternative use can be made of the land – Auckland Airport may prefer to use the golf course land for a different purpose, possibly a commercial development, so will need to decide whether to build the JUHI or something else on the golf course site. Airlines would not be happy about having to pay more for a different site just to accommodate an airport commercial development, so in this scenario we would expect the airport to fund any cost difference.

Fast-forward a few years: https://www.manawabay.co.nz/, which if I'm not mistaken is exactly where the proposed JUHI from the BARNZ article is.

V/F

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

SpoonNZ wrote:

Another obscure one that would make the list is Alexandra (ALR) at 1200m

Good find, years ago there was flights from Alex to CHC with an airline called Goldfields Air.

Back before it became an NZ subsidiary, Mt Cook (NM) operated a daily(?) service ZQN-ALX-DUD for many years, using an Islander.

Mainland Air operated DUD-ALX-ZQN for a time, and still has a scheduled charter for the SDHB doctors to ALX from DUD

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Ah I get you. I thought you meant the domestic jet pier currently under planning would incorporate the existing JQ gates. As others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath on further development. If I recall correctly, the integration of domestic and international was originally something envisioned for the 1990s, and has been slipping back in time ever since. From what I understand, the plan is for the existing domestic terminal to be refurbished for regional operations once the jets move to the new pier. While it would be nice to think they would build out at least one new regional pier from the integrated terminal as soon as they complete the jet pier, I suspect that won't happen, unless Air New Zealand kick up a large stink about their domestic-to-domestic connections operating between two different terminals.

You're definitely right about the circus. I've seen (and been in) lines of vehicles waiting upwards of 15 minutes to get across from the tennis courts to the international terminal. The eastern baggage hall at international is being demolished and replaced with a more modern baggage handling system (which presumably will be ready to handle both international and domestic baggage).


I believe it is 12 gates. The three gates shown on the western side appear to be MARS gates, which can handle a single widebody or two narrowbodies, like the current gates 15-18.


I suspect you are right. I would guess 2027 for the opening of the domestic jet pier, and probably another 20 years of life eked out of the current domestic terminal after that. Unless Air New Zealand put their foot down about domestic-to-domestic connections being separated. But knowing Auckland Airport, their response would be along the lines of "here is how much additional you will need to pay to bring the completion of the additional piers forward". One thing which may come into play is screening requirements; if there is a need for regional screening, there may be an argument to consolidate that in one place to minimise the number of people needing to exit and reenter the secure area.

Interestingly Auckland Airport's web site seems quite silent on showing long term plans. The photo you showed is good; the corporate website uses an alternative angle as its background which shows quite nicely the long term vision (with the third domestic pier appearing to sit more or less where gates 43-50 are at the moment: https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/. Eyeballing that image, the northern edge of the terminal connecting the three domestic piers would be alongside Cyril Kay Drive. The first pier, as mentioned, would sit where the "tennis courts" (stands 70-73) are currently, the second pier would be on top of where the fuel silos are currently, extending out more or less over the top of the current stand 30 or thereabouts, and the third pier, as mentioned, sitting in line with the current regional pier for gates 43-50. It looks like they are planning dual taxilanes between the piers, which will be very useful to avoid congestion.

Come on Auckland Airport, prove us all wrong and get this done in the next decade!

V/F

I’m sure we’ve been sitting in the same queue’s (from 82-6 and vv)….? I did hear a rumour that they are going to come up with an alternative road somewhere, but like you, I’ll believe it, when I actually get to use it….!

One thing you mentioned in your last paragraph, and that can’t be seen in any of the images on the airport master plan , is the fuel storage tanks…! As I’m sure you’re aware, this is where I’m based from. I suppose the airport is banking on new technology that will eliminate the need for aircraft to use traditional jet fuel in favour of batteries….?

Either way, I suspect I’ll long be in a box underground before any of it happens.

That's an interesting point. If they're waiting for that, then its likely we'll all be in boxes before the terminal development happens. It isn't my area of expertise, but could the fueling system manage if the fuel storage was off site (Wiri?) and pipelined to the airport, or would that be too far?

BARNZ had an article a few years ago stating that the alternative JUHI site identified was the current golf course: https://barnz.org.nz/2019/03/15/auckland-juhi-might-move-to-the-golf-course-site/. Looking at the map there, am I right in saying if they are talking about hydrant lines at the domestic aprons, that would replace the current tanker operations currently used for the regional aircraft (I don't remember ever looking, are the domestic jets currently fueled from tankers or hydrants?)

The article also included this prescient tidbit:

Although the preferred site has been identified, this does not mean it has been confirmed. The most important decision to be made is about whether an alternative use can be made of the land – Auckland Airport may prefer to use the golf course land for a different purpose, possibly a commercial development, so will need to decide whether to build the JUHI or something else on the golf course site. Airlines would not be happy about having to pay more for a different site just to accommodate an airport commercial development, so in this scenario we would expect the airport to fund any cost difference.

Fast-forward a few years: https://www.manawabay.co.nz/, which if I'm not mistaken is exactly where the proposed JUHI from the BARNZ article is.

V/F

Haha, yes, I’ve also seen the BARNZ report. It looked good, and made lots of sense (to me at least). However the site that they chose is currently being developed as a shopping centre I think (because there’s obviously not enough of them…!). Orrs road was another option touted, but the report concluded with the summary that the oil companies were unlikely to agree on the level of investment required. I would think that is even more unlikely now, with the “greenies” banging on about battery aircraft, and hydrogen aircraft (none of which is really available or useful now, or likely to be in the next decade). Oil companies will simply not commit to a project where the ROI is questionable.

In theory, you are quite right, and as the report says another storage tank could be built at Wiri (it would take at least two years even if they started tomorrow…!) but having two large tanks to replace the five “on airport” tanks would, in my opinion be quite risky! For a start, you cannot draw fuel, from a “filling tank”. The fuel needs time to settle (I think it’s something like 30+ mins for each meter of depth) and this currently takes quite a few hours every time a “parcel” is sent down the “WAP” (Wiri-AKL pipeline). Going back, the same thing happens with the “RAP” (Ruakaka-Auckland pipeline (which is a multi products pipeline)). If one tank should be “off spec” while the other is “filling” then the resulting carnage would certainly affect anyone trying to leave AKL by plane….!

All of the above-way above my pay grade……!

To answer the other part of your question. Yes, at the moment domestic operations including regional, and corporate (Swissport-Sycare ramp, and Air Centre One) are fuelled by tanker. This can be a challenge with some of the longer flights (ZQN,DUD,IVC) that will nearly empty a tanker. Ask any refueller, and they would be delighted to have hydrant on the domestic jet gates. Regional is probably better staying on tanker, as the time taken to connect to hydrant, and then to aircraft vs connection from tanker straight to aircraft is probably negligible and dare I say it? Less efficient.

Who knows what the future will bring? I don’t see much change occurring in the next decade, but I’m certainly not hearing anything about a new JUHI.

I guess we’ll just carry on regardless.

LamboAston wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Good find, years ago there was flights from Alex to CHC with an airline called Goldfields Air.

Back before it became an NZ subsidiary, Mt Cook (NM) operated a daily(?) service ZQN-ALX-DUD for many years, using an Islander.

Mainland Air operated DUD-ALX-ZQN for a time, and still has a scheduled charter for the SDHB doctors to ALX from DUD

ALR was also used by Mount Cook HS748s during the 1989 (IIRC) ski season. Portable night lights were installed which allowed for an early evening arrival from CHC. This flight connected with a SYD-CHC flight and allowed the airline and agents to offer a same day servIce SYD-ZQN, which was a novelty at the time. I think it only lasted one season.

Edit to add: Bus transfer to ZQN from Alexandra, by Mount Cook Line coach.

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

That would be the first part, but the ultimate plan, as it shows in the link you provided is to build three new piers for domestic. Currently the “honey pot” is being relocated, checkpoint Charlie is being rerouted and various other works (I think something is happening to one of the bag rooms). The airport master plan is available on the corporate section of the AIAL website. I just can’t seem to post the images on here. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the freighters (Singapore, Qantas(Atlas), Airwork, FedEx ) while this is happening. It’s a circus now trying to cross the taxiway from stand 82 across to stand 6 especially if there is an arrival or departure from gate 8,6,4. Gate 2 is currently closed for work on the fuel hydrant.

Ah I get you. I thought you meant the domestic jet pier currently under planning would incorporate the existing JQ gates. As others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath on further development. If I recall correctly, the integration of domestic and international was originally something envisioned for the 1990s, and has been slipping back in time ever since. From what I understand, the plan is for the existing domestic terminal to be refurbished for regional operations once the jets move to the new pier. While it would be nice to think they would build out at least one new regional pier from the integrated terminal as soon as they complete the jet pier, I suspect that won't happen, unless Air New Zealand kick up a large stink about their domestic-to-domestic connections operating between two different terminals.

You're definitely right about the circus. I've seen (and been in) lines of vehicles waiting upwards of 15 minutes to get across from the tennis courts to the international terminal. The eastern baggage hall at international is being demolished and replaced with a more modern baggage handling system (which presumably will be ready to handle both international and domestic baggage).

NZ321 wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

So, from that video it seems 9 jet gates are planned on this new domestic pier. That would directly replace one for one the jet gates in the current domestic terminal, no growth.

I believe it is 12 gates. The three gates shown on the western side appear to be MARS gates, which can handle a single widebody or two narrowbodies, like the current gates 15-18.

NZ6 wrote:

You can see the vision here with additional "piers", I'll be long gone before we see anything of the sort.



I'm still expecting all domestic jet to move to the new pier currently under construction, I'll use that term loosely (Is it still in a pre-works phase) and the existing domestic terminal refreshed for the millionth time to accommodate all regional flying. Using current jet gates for ATR's etc. I also wouldn't be surprised if JQ stayed there.

Obviously not forever, but the current domestic terminal will still be used for another 20-30 years.

I suspect you are right. I would guess 2027 for the opening of the domestic jet pier, and probably another 20 years of life eked out of the current domestic terminal after that. Unless Air New Zealand put their foot down about domestic-to-domestic connections being separated. But knowing Auckland Airport, their response would be along the lines of "here is how much additional you will need to pay to bring the completion of the additional piers forward". One thing which may come into play is screening requirements; if there is a need for regional screening, there may be an argument to consolidate that in one place to minimise the number of people needing to exit and reenter the secure area.

Interestingly Auckland Airport's web site seems quite silent on showing long term plans. The photo you showed is good; the corporate website uses an alternative angle as its background which shows quite nicely the long term vision (with the third domestic pier appearing to sit more or less where gates 43-50 are at the moment: https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/. Eyeballing that image, the northern edge of the terminal connecting the three domestic piers would be alongside Cyril Kay Drive. The first pier, as mentioned, would sit where the "tennis courts" (stands 70-73) are currently, the second pier would be on top of where the fuel silos are currently, extending out more or less over the top of the current stand 30 or thereabouts, and the third pier, as mentioned, sitting in line with the current regional pier for gates 43-50. It looks like they are planning dual taxilanes between the piers, which will be very useful to avoid congestion.

Come on Auckland Airport, prove us all wrong and get this done in the next decade!

V/F

I always thought the new domestic pier would be where gates 81-84 are. That would be quite a loss of international ramp space however, I don’t believe 81 is used now? But I am picking that 81-84 remain as international layovers and the domestic pier is as said somewhere where 71-73 tennis courts are?

It makes sense that there are 1-2 widebody capable gates, I am guessing on the end of the pier, that could take up to a 781 I guess.

ZK-NBT wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

That would be the first part, but the ultimate plan, as it shows in the link you provided is to build three new piers for domestic. Currently the “honey pot” is being relocated, checkpoint Charlie is being rerouted and various other works (I think something is happening to one of the bag rooms). The airport master plan is available on the corporate section of the AIAL website. I just can’t seem to post the images on here. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the freighters (Singapore, Qantas(Atlas), Airwork, FedEx ) while this is happening. It’s a circus now trying to cross the taxiway from stand 82 across to stand 6 especially if there is an arrival or departure from gate 8,6,4. Gate 2 is currently closed for work on the fuel hydrant.

Ah I get you. I thought you meant the domestic jet pier currently under planning would incorporate the existing JQ gates. As others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath on further development. If I recall correctly, the integration of domestic and international was originally something envisioned for the 1990s, and has been slipping back in time ever since. From what I understand, the plan is for the existing domestic terminal to be refurbished for regional operations once the jets move to the new pier. While it would be nice to think they would build out at least one new regional pier from the integrated terminal as soon as they complete the jet pier, I suspect that won't happen, unless Air New Zealand kick up a large stink about their domestic-to-domestic connections operating between two different terminals.

You're definitely right about the circus. I've seen (and been in) lines of vehicles waiting upwards of 15 minutes to get across from the tennis courts to the international terminal. The eastern baggage hall at international is being demolished and replaced with a more modern baggage handling system (which presumably will be ready to handle both international and domestic baggage).

NZ321 wrote:

So, from that video it seems 9 jet gates are planned on this new domestic pier. That would directly replace one for one the jet gates in the current domestic terminal, no growth.

I believe it is 12 gates. The three gates shown on the western side appear to be MARS gates, which can handle a single widebody or two narrowbodies, like the current gates 15-18.

NZ6 wrote:

You can see the vision here with additional "piers", I'll be long gone before we see anything of the sort.



I'm still expecting all domestic jet to move to the new pier currently under construction, I'll use that term loosely (Is it still in a pre-works phase) and the existing domestic terminal refreshed for the millionth time to accommodate all regional flying. Using current jet gates for ATR's etc. I also wouldn't be surprised if JQ stayed there.

Obviously not forever, but the current domestic terminal will still be used for another 20-30 years.

I suspect you are right. I would guess 2027 for the opening of the domestic jet pier, and probably another 20 years of life eked out of the current domestic terminal after that. Unless Air New Zealand put their foot down about domestic-to-domestic connections being separated. But knowing Auckland Airport, their response would be along the lines of "here is how much additional you will need to pay to bring the completion of the additional piers forward". One thing which may come into play is screening requirements; if there is a need for regional screening, there may be an argument to consolidate that in one place to minimise the number of people needing to exit and reenter the secure area.

Interestingly Auckland Airport's web site seems quite silent on showing long term plans. The photo you showed is good; the corporate website uses an alternative angle as its background which shows quite nicely the long term vision (with the third domestic pier appearing to sit more or less where gates 43-50 are at the moment: https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/. Eyeballing that image, the northern edge of the terminal connecting the three domestic piers would be alongside Cyril Kay Drive. The first pier, as mentioned, would sit where the "tennis courts" (stands 70-73) are currently, the second pier would be on top of where the fuel silos are currently, extending out more or less over the top of the current stand 30 or thereabouts, and the third pier, as mentioned, sitting in line with the current regional pier for gates 43-50. It looks like they are planning dual taxilanes between the piers, which will be very useful to avoid congestion.

Come on Auckland Airport, prove us all wrong and get this done in the next decade!

V/F

I always thought the new domestic pier would be where gates 81-84 are. That would be quite a loss of international ramp space however, I don’t believe 81 is used now? But I am picking that 81-84 remain as international layovers and the domestic pier is as said somewhere where 71-73 tennis courts are?

It makes sense that there are 1-2 widebody capable gates, I am guessing on the end of the pier, that could take up to a 781 I guess.

I’ve seen 81 used for parking an ATR, and a Dash-8. I’ve even seen an A321 arrive on gate 2, then get pushed back “tail west” and get towed through 81 to get to the tennis courts. You are correct though, it’s seldom used as a stand, and often used as parking for baggage/cargo cans and JCPL’s. Maybe making it a pier, would actually give them back some space….?

Avtur wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Ah I get you. I thought you meant the domestic jet pier currently under planning would incorporate the existing JQ gates. As others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath on further development. If I recall correctly, the integration of domestic and international was originally something envisioned for the 1990s, and has been slipping back in time ever since. From what I understand, the plan is for the existing domestic terminal to be refurbished for regional operations once the jets move to the new pier. While it would be nice to think they would build out at least one new regional pier from the integrated terminal as soon as they complete the jet pier, I suspect that won't happen, unless Air New Zealand kick up a large stink about their domestic-to-domestic connections operating between two different terminals.

You're definitely right about the circus. I've seen (and been in) lines of vehicles waiting upwards of 15 minutes to get across from the tennis courts to the international terminal. The eastern baggage hall at international is being demolished and replaced with a more modern baggage handling system (which presumably will be ready to handle both international and domestic baggage).


I believe it is 12 gates. The three gates shown on the western side appear to be MARS gates, which can handle a single widebody or two narrowbodies, like the current gates 15-18.


I suspect you are right. I would guess 2027 for the opening of the domestic jet pier, and probably another 20 years of life eked out of the current domestic terminal after that. Unless Air New Zealand put their foot down about domestic-to-domestic connections being separated. But knowing Auckland Airport, their response would be along the lines of "here is how much additional you will need to pay to bring the completion of the additional piers forward". One thing which may come into play is screening requirements; if there is a need for regional screening, there may be an argument to consolidate that in one place to minimise the number of people needing to exit and reenter the secure area.

Interestingly Auckland Airport's web site seems quite silent on showing long term plans. The photo you showed is good; the corporate website uses an alternative angle as its background which shows quite nicely the long term vision (with the third domestic pier appearing to sit more or less where gates 43-50 are at the moment: https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/. Eyeballing that image, the northern edge of the terminal connecting the three domestic piers would be alongside Cyril Kay Drive. The first pier, as mentioned, would sit where the "tennis courts" (stands 70-73) are currently, the second pier would be on top of where the fuel silos are currently, extending out more or less over the top of the current stand 30 or thereabouts, and the third pier, as mentioned, sitting in line with the current regional pier for gates 43-50. It looks like they are planning dual taxilanes between the piers, which will be very useful to avoid congestion.

Come on Auckland Airport, prove us all wrong and get this done in the next decade!

V/F

I always thought the new domestic pier would be where gates 81-84 are. That would be quite a loss of international ramp space however, I don’t believe 81 is used now? But I am picking that 81-84 remain as international layovers and the domestic pier is as said somewhere where 71-73 tennis courts are?

It makes sense that there are 1-2 widebody capable gates, I am guessing on the end of the pier, that could take up to a 781 I guess.

I’ve seen 81 used for parking an ATR, and a Dash-8. I’ve even seen an A321 arrive on gate 2, then get pushed back “tail west” and get towed through 81 to get to the tennis courts. You are correct though, it’s seldom used as a stand, and often used as parking for baggage/cargo cans and JCPL’s. Maybe making it a pier, would actually give them back some space….?

Interesting, an ATR and Dash on 81, I wouldn’t have thought there was room to taxi anything through there let a lone an A321, maybe a prop. I’m haven’t been a regular around the airport for a long while though so don’t notice these things.

The 748 freighters generally park on the west side don’t they? To long for 82-83? Atlas is a 744 again atm. I remember the TG A346 used to be on 82-84 often.

Interesting, an ATR and Dash on 81, I wouldn’t have thought there was room to taxi anything through there let a lone an A321, maybe a prop. I’m haven’t been a regular around the airport for a long while though so don’t notice these things.

The 748 freighters generally park on the west side don’t they? To long for 82-83? Atlas is a 744 again atm. I remember the TG A346 used to be on 82-84 often.[/quote]

The A321 being towed through was a shock to me the first time I saw it (I’ve seen it happen a couple of times since). I remember being grateful that I had an airside ops Ute in front me, that had stopped at the “hold line”and that I obviously had to queue behind, or I would have driven straight in front of it…! The only real clue that something unusual was happening was “wing walkers”.

The SQ744, and the FedEx 77F are regular’s on 82, along with some of the Chinese carriers, and the odd NZ789 sometimes operates from there. The Atlas(QF)748’s including the one with “Polar/DHL” titles usually operates from 74-75. Strangely enough the last time I did that one, it came in with a canoe fairing missing from the left wing. I never did find out whether it had been dispatched like that, or had lost it in flight….?

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

That would be the first part, but the ultimate plan, as it shows in the link you provided is to build three new piers for domestic. Currently the “honey pot” is being relocated, checkpoint Charlie is being rerouted and various other works (I think something is happening to one of the bag rooms). The airport master plan is available on the corporate section of the AIAL website. I just can’t seem to post the images on here. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the freighters (Singapore, Qantas(Atlas), Airwork, FedEx ) while this is happening. It’s a circus now trying to cross the taxiway from stand 82 across to stand 6 especially if there is an arrival or departure from gate 8,6,4. Gate 2 is currently closed for work on the fuel hydrant.

Ah I get you. I thought you meant the domestic jet pier currently under planning would incorporate the existing JQ gates. As others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath on further development. If I recall correctly, the integration of domestic and international was originally something envisioned for the 1990s, and has been slipping back in time ever since. From what I understand, the plan is for the existing domestic terminal to be refurbished for regional operations once the jets move to the new pier. While it would be nice to think they would build out at least one new regional pier from the integrated terminal as soon as they complete the jet pier, I suspect that won't happen, unless Air New Zealand kick up a large stink about their domestic-to-domestic connections operating between two different terminals.

You're definitely right about the circus. I've seen (and been in) lines of vehicles waiting upwards of 15 minutes to get across from the tennis courts to the international terminal. The eastern baggage hall at international is being demolished and replaced with a more modern baggage handling system (which presumably will be ready to handle both international and domestic baggage).

NZ321 wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

So, from that video it seems 9 jet gates are planned on this new domestic pier. That would directly replace one for one the jet gates in the current domestic terminal, no growth.

I believe it is 12 gates. The three gates shown on the western side appear to be MARS gates, which can handle a single widebody or two narrowbodies, like the current gates 15-18.

NZ6 wrote:

You can see the vision here with additional "piers", I'll be long gone before we see anything of the sort.



I'm still expecting all domestic jet to move to the new pier currently under construction, I'll use that term loosely (Is it still in a pre-works phase) and the existing domestic terminal refreshed for the millionth time to accommodate all regional flying. Using current jet gates for ATR's etc. I also wouldn't be surprised if JQ stayed there.

Obviously not forever, but the current domestic terminal will still be used for another 20-30 years.

I suspect you are right. I would guess 2027 for the opening of the domestic jet pier, and probably another 20 years of life eked out of the current domestic terminal after that. Unless Air New Zealand put their foot down about domestic-to-domestic connections being separated. But knowing Auckland Airport, their response would be along the lines of "here is how much additional you will need to pay to bring the completion of the additional piers forward". One thing which may come into play is screening requirements; if there is a need for regional screening, there may be an argument to consolidate that in one place to minimise the number of people needing to exit and reenter the secure area.

Interestingly Auckland Airport's web site seems quite silent on showing long term plans. The photo you showed is good; the corporate website uses an alternative angle as its background which shows quite nicely the long term vision (with the third domestic pier appearing to sit more or less where gates 43-50 are at the moment: https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/. Eyeballing that image, the northern edge of the terminal connecting the three domestic piers would be alongside Cyril Kay Drive. The first pier, as mentioned, would sit where the "tennis courts" (stands 70-73) are currently, the second pier would be on top of where the fuel silos are currently, extending out more or less over the top of the current stand 30 or thereabouts, and the third pier, as mentioned, sitting in line with the current regional pier for gates 43-50. It looks like they are planning dual taxilanes between the piers, which will be very useful to avoid congestion.

Come on Auckland Airport, prove us all wrong and get this done in the next decade!

V/F

Doesn’t seem like there is very clear information around the domestic terminal development.

When you walk from the International carpark, to the terminal. There posters seeming to imply that the entire new domestic pier is swing gates?

Don't want to sound like a doom merchant, but its a heck of a risk to have the gateway to the country, and the investment of a dual runway airport in a
part of the country with 50+ dormant volcanoes, and a field which could become at any moment active.
I understand Air New Zealand has no back up plan should an event take place.
Not many airports without the risk of a natural event in NZ, but as the old saying goes if Auckland sneezes, the rest of the country gets a cold.

VirginFlyer wrote:

Avtur wrote:

zkncj wrote:

The JQ gates, will eventually become the integrated domestic pier.

Are you sure of this? I was under the impression the footprint of the new domestic pier would be on top of the tennis courts? See the image at https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/auc ... VO3BXPPVA/

V/F

Why is that area called the tennis courts?

ZKaviation wrote:

Don't want to sound like a doom merchant, but its a heck of a risk to have the gateway to the country, and the investment of a dual runway airport in a
part of the country with 50+ dormant volcanoes, and a field which could become at any moment active.
I understand Air New Zealand has no back up plan should an event take place.
Not many airports without the risk of a natural event in NZ, but as the old saying goes if Auckland sneezes, the rest of the country gets a cold.

That describes pretty much anywhere in NZ. If it’s not volcanoes, then it’s earthquakes.
As for Mangere, it is generally considered to be a lower risk with future volcanic activity expected to be located in the NE quarter of Auckland (ie harbour, Rangitoto, Gulf etc).

From the link on AKL it's listed the four projects going ahead

• $160 million in upgrades to roading and new transit system (Northern Network and SH20B improvements)
•$1 billion-plus new domestic hub
• Approximately $200 million transport hub
• Around $75 million in ongoing upgrades to the existing domestic terminal.

So with all that investment going into the existing domestic terminal for the regional flights. I can see it staying a permanent facility long term.

NZ516 wrote:

From the link on AKL it's listed the four projects going ahead

• $160 million in upgrades to roading and new transit system (Northern Network and SH20B improvements)
•$1 billion-plus new domestic hub
• Approximately $200 million transport hub
• Around $75 million in ongoing upgrades to the existing domestic terminal.

So with all that investment going into the existing domestic terminal for the regional flights. I can see it staying a permanent facility long term.

Surely $75million, could of paid for a completely new build regional terminal/pier?

Could see the current jet gates, being modified into gates for ATR’s.

Anchor projects on hold
* Expanded international airfield and taxiway capacity
• New cargo precinct
• New international arrivals area
• Second runway.

So a second runway could be a decade away or longer and is not seen as a priority. Can they manage with just the one runway for longer period perhaps to 2040. I understand that they don't have endless amount of money and are already committing $1.4 billion for the four projects going ahead. Which is really good to see finally I might add.

zkncj wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

From the link on AKL it's listed the four projects going ahead

• $160 million in upgrades to roading and new transit system (Northern Network and SH20B improvements)
•$1 billion-plus new domestic hub
• Approximately $200 million transport hub
• Around $75 million in ongoing upgrades to the existing domestic terminal.

So with all that investment going into the existing domestic terminal for the regional flights. I can see it staying a permanent facility long term.

Surely $75million, could of paid for a completely new build regional terminal/pier?

Could see the current jet gates, being modified into gates for ATR’s.

Probably not enough for it that's just a refurbish.
If the new domestic jet pier cost $1 billion a new regional pier might cost at least half so $500 m for the same length but with no aerobridges. They probably don't have the budget to do any more over the next decade.

Honestly, AKL is the NZ gateway airport to NZ and the present setup is an insult to those of us who use the facility regularly and a poor first impression for those arriving into NZ; who can argue with that? Yet the tourist dollar is important to the economy. I've been on the wrong end of this arrangement a few too many times lately and I'm sure many of you have too. Nothing above suggests any improvement in international-domestic connections (or v/v) or overall terminal functionality over the coming 10 year period. Investment seems to be a strategy to increase dividends to shareholders. But nothing specific seems to relate to the primary function of the facility. Successive CEOs seem to get on board with the status quo. Does the council have no teeth on this matter? Was the deal so lacking in controls for the council? It's a sad state of affairs to put it mildly. Epitomises NZ's general problem with infrastructure planning; one could go on but I won't. What can be done to improve things? What options exist to challenge the current and prolonged failure of the current company to provide an acceptable functional level of service comparable to what one experiences at many other first world airports around the globe?

I can confirm ATR/Q300 and 320/321 can be towed thru gate 82. We normally park an ATR or Q300 on Gate 82A as a parking area. A 747 can park on 82 with room for the ATR or Q300 to use 82A. We from 82A we request to Tower to tow forward from 82 Alpha via the Delta 2 extension to whatever gate we are going at Domestic. For A320/321, provided no equipment is parked around gate 82 we can tow from the Delta 2 extension thru 82A onto taxiway Juliet at Intl to the required gate. Likewise from Gates 2/4/6 we can pushback tail south and tow forward thru 82A onto the Delta 2 extension. This is not done often for A320/321 but is a regular process for the Q300/ATR. I have towed all four aircraft types thru this area when required. Space is close but clearances meet minimum requirements to tow thru this area.

WLG airport has released it's results they got a $40 m profit before tax. Good to see they are getting on with projects to improve the airport as well.

https://www.wellingtonairport.co.nz/new ... mber-2022/

Passengers are unhappy with only 3 toilets on the domestic 321s. But as it's used on mostly short flights of up to two hours most people should not need to visit the toilet compared to a long haul flight.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/why-p ... TQDTNAKBY/

NZ321 wrote:

Honestly, AKL is the NZ gateway airport to NZ and the present setup is an insult to those of us who use the facility regularly and a poor first impression for those arriving into NZ; who can argue with that? Yet the tourist dollar is important to the economy. I've been on the wrong end of this arrangement a few too many times lately and I'm sure many of you have too. Nothing above suggests any improvement in international-domestic connections (or v/v) or overall terminal functionality over the coming 10 year period. Investment seems to be a strategy to increase dividends to shareholders. But nothing specific seems to relate to the primary function of the facility. Successive CEOs seem to get on board with the status quo. Does the council have no teeth on this matter? Was the deal so lacking in controls for the council? It's a sad state of affairs to put it mildly. Epitomises NZ's general problem with infrastructure planning; one could go on but I won't. What can be done to improve things? What options exist to challenge the current and prolonged failure of the current company to provide an acceptable functional level of service comparable to what one experiences at many other first world airports around the globe?

I agree entirely it's been put off time and time again. While the costs to build it keep on increasing year after year.
But to give credit to AKL airport with relocation works in progress now this is the strongest hint that it will get started soon. It goes back to the 1960s that the airport created a wooden model of a 3 pier integrated terminal of how the future would be.
It's certainly long overdue that's for sure.

NZ516 wrote:

Passengers are unhappy with only 3 toilets on the domestic 321s. But as it's used on mostly short flights of up to two hours most people should not need to visit the toilet compared to a long haul flight.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/why-p ... TQDTNAKBY/

They forget that the a320CEO, only has 2x toilets for 171 passengers. Must of been a very slow news day…

I did 2x trips on OYA over the last week, never saw a que for the bathroom up the front. Everyone was more interested in drinking there free koru hour wine and beer.

zkncj wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Passengers are unhappy with only 3 toilets on the domestic 321s. But as it's used on mostly short flights of up to two hours most people should not need to visit the toilet compared to a long haul flight.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/why-p ... TQDTNAKBY/

They forget that the a320CEO, only has 2x toilets for 171 passengers. Must of been a very slow news day…

I did 2x trips on OYA over the last week, never saw a que for the bathroom up the front. Everyone was more interested in drinking there free koru hour wine and beer.

The crew seat towards the back is incredibly close to a pax seat. In the event of an emergency the pax will hear everything. The crew seat on the back of the toilet door is an interesting one too. Crew have lost access to one of the storage spaces due to the curtain.

And no space+.

NZ801 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

NZ516 wrote:

Passengers are unhappy with only 3 toilets on the domestic 321s. But as it's used on mostly short flights of up to two hours most people should not need to visit the toilet compared to a long haul flight.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/why-p ... TQDTNAKBY/

They forget that the a320CEO, only has 2x toilets for 171 passengers. Must of been a very slow news day…

I did 2x trips on OYA over the last week, never saw a que for the bathroom up the front. Everyone was more interested in drinking there free koru hour wine and beer.

The crew seat towards the back is incredibly close to a pax seat. In the event of an emergency the pax will hear everything. The crew seat on the back of the toilet door is an interesting one too. Crew have lost access to one of the storage spaces due to the curtain.

And no space+.

No different to 1ABC on the CEO's without any bulkhead, you over hear allot of crew conversations that you probably shouldn't.

What are lucky with is NZ choose not to put 240 seats on the domestic A321NEO-Dom.

Jetstar has 232 seats on theres...

zkncj wrote:

NZ801 wrote:

zkncj wrote:

They forget that the a320CEO, only has 2x toilets for 171 passengers. Must of been a very slow news day…

I did 2x trips on OYA over the last week, never saw a que for the bathroom up the front. Everyone was more interested in drinking there free koru hour wine and beer.

The crew seat towards the back is incredibly close to a pax seat. In the event of an emergency the pax will hear everything. The crew seat on the back of the toilet door is an interesting one too. Crew have lost access to one of the storage spaces due to the curtain.

And no space+.

No different to 1ABC on the CEO's without any bulkhead, you over hear allot of crew conversations that you probably shouldn't.

What are lucky with is NZ choose not to put 240 seats on the domestic A321NEO-Dom.

Jetstar has 232 seats on theres...

It’s completely different. On the A321 the crew member is hard up against the pax. Have a look the next time you’re on one.